Football Daily - World Cup: Wayne Rooney On England v Argentina

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Wayne Rooney joins Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith ahead of England's World Cup semi-final against Argentina.He explains why Jude Bellingham and Harry Kane are so important to this England side, why he likes seeing Thomas Tuchel and Bellingham challenge each other, reflects on similar moments from his own career and even shares how musicals help him switch off before the biggest occasions.Rooney also shares a brilliant story about pranking Sir Alex Ferguson alongside Cristiano Ronaldo.Plus, Julien Laurens reacts after Spain knocked out France to reach the World Cup final and explains why they now look like the team to beat.

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2.50. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. The Football Daily at the People World Cup 2026 with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith live from L.A. Hello, welcome to the Football Daily with Rick and Lloyd. It's the big one. England, Argentina, later today. Going to be joined by Wayne Rooney to talk about that shortly. Spain beat France 2-0 to make it to the World Cup finals. Julian Ron is going to be chatting to us about that as well. A couple of bits of business to attend to. have been eyeing up a diner just down the road from us. It's called Georges Burgers. We've been looking at the menu online.

4.4 stars on Google Maps. Yeah, we're quite a few reviews. About 2 in our 1,000. Yeah, so safe. And I've been peering in, because it's on the way to our workout place. Ironically, the place we're going to work out every day. And you look in and you see the food that these people are eating. So we went in, finally went in today, and we ordered what I think we both thought.

It's an intimidating menu. There's a lot there's a lot there. It's a proper old school diner. Absolutely. American diner. Everything you imagine is going to be on there is on there. And we went for the chili cheese fries with pastrami. Yeah.

And I think we both imagined that that was going to be a sort of a modest affair. Well, can I, I ordered first. Yeah. And the reason why I went for that is because actually it was slightly cheaper. So I thought, oh, they're not as expensive as the other meals. And I don't really want a massive meal. So I'll go for that. And I think it might be, you know, between a starter and a maid.

And you said, do you know what? I'm going to have to order that as well. Because if you get that, I'm going to get jealous. I'm going to be jealous. Yeah. So we ordered it. And, well, what turned up? Well, a mountain.

It was a mountain of pastrami, chili, chips and cheese. Yeah. And it was. No exaggeration. I'd say, if you put your hand on a table. That sort of height, yeah. If you put your hand on a table upright, okay, so your hand is one length up. It was that high.

And then form a dome over it. It looked like, I'm not sure if anyone's ever been to Meadow Hall in the shopping center in Sheffield, or maybe even St. Paul's Cathedral. The dome, it was like that, but pastramian chips. Yes, and quite a lot of sauce. And we, both of us have got healthy appetites. Neither of us could finish. but it was absolutely delicious. I was really, I was really impressed.

I was like, to know what? I've managed to get through to him. It's worked off. He's wearing grimm's bit tops. He's eaten an obscene amount of pastrami. I was really proud of you. I was like, well done, Rick. Because before you'd have had a couple of chips

and gone for a little avocado juice around the corner. Done your circuit class, but I'm like, look at this boy. I feel like, you know, with those couples, they're getting in a really, like, unhealthy relationship where it's like, they're active at the same. start, then the next thing you know, there's like, should we get dominoes? Other pizzas are available. Are you saying that we're both feeders now? Well, I think we are now, both feeders. And it's just got to that point where I'm going,

you don't need to go, you don't need to go, you're fine as you are, you're beautiful. What are you doing? Why are you going to the, no, you don't. Eat another mouthful. Here's some mayonnaise. We didn't, we didn't, we didn't lady in the trumpet. Well, maybe we should have done. The chips weren't that long. I wish we had to have. We could have got close, couldn't we? Also, we're coming to the end of our table tennis time, I think. So we play table tennis pretty much every day. Two to three times a day, maybe. Sometimes to three times.

Yeah, we are busy. It's pathetic. We are busy. And we've not been doing a cumulative score, but no. If we had, it would be pathetic. Because we're just friends having fun, just playing table tennis. And I guess, you know, it's just a silly little game, isn't it? table tennis. So we don't really need to keep scores. I've played fantastic. I've got better,

considering I was... You have got better? Yeah. Although that hasn't been reflected in the score lines. No, there's been a couple. There's been a couple of days where I've... There's been one. There's been... There was one. There was one glorious day. I knew this is going to happen. When you won. And on the other 40 days. Oh, Jesus. Oh, could you smell that? What, is that, is that you? Is that the best rami?

So we're at the end of Route 66, if you've been listening to the podcast since the start, which is basically by the sea and Santa Monica. And we just got the largest whiff of the ocean that I think we've ever got. Oh, yeah, got you. I assumed it was, because I don't really have a sense of moment. I assumed it was going to be weeds because I don't really get weeds. It's the ocean got the largest. Did you get that?

I felt like I was back in Grimsby. It's absolutely what, Cleethorpe. It was absolutely fantastic. I don't feel homesick anymore. Well, perfect prep for Wayne Rooney. What's a like to say? We're joined by Wayne Rooney now. How are you, Wayne?

Yeah, I'm good. All good. Thanks. How are you? Yeah, very well. Welcome to America. A bit of good news for you, actually. We get to New York just in time for your row down the Hudson so we can be on the sides, cheering you on. Go on faster, boy, faster! That sort of stuff. That's helpful. Well, I'm happy you've got more details than I have because I'm still waiting for them. We found your cups. That didn't sound too good. I wasn't referring to that. No, I know you were.

No, I know you were. Now, Wayne, there are big games and then there's England, Argentina in a semi-final at a World Cup. This is absolutely huge, isn't it? It's massive. Obviously England, I remember we played Argentina. We played in Switzerland, actually, against him. It must have been over 20 years ago. And just the feeling of that, that was a friendly game. It was huge, so to play Argentina,

World Cup semifinal is absolutely massive. Pressure on both teams, but yeah, after seeing the France- Spain game, just, then. It's going to be tough for England. Two very tough games if they're going to win the World Cup, but I think they're more than capable of doing it. You've experienced the kind of the pressure and the expectation of playing for England.

How do you manage yourself in the kind of 24 hours building up to a colossal match like this? Well, I haven't played in a game of this magnitude. In terms of playing in big games and the pressure of big games, for me, I'd try and relax and what you're, a series or a couple of movies and try and chill out and stay as calm

and try and just stay away from everything. Obviously now it's more difficult with social media rounds and stuff but trying to just lock myself away and stay away from everything. These players throughout the whole tournament, they've seen like they're quite chilled. Nothing seems to have phased them. Have you got that from them? I mean that they're kind of actually, do you know what, this occasion,

we think we might be alright? Yeah, I think Thomas Tushel has said from the start, hasn't he? and from his squad he wants the team to be together and we've seen that we've seen you know players going out at the hotel we've seen them in I think it was Harry Keynes

and Ben at a concert and they look to be a bit more chilled than the afternoon in previous tournament and I think that stems from Garrett Southgate when he was in charge and building a better relationship with the media and I think that's certainly there at the moment and yeah the players

they've been in big games haven't you know two year old championship financial finals. Some of them players have got that experience of being in big games and I think that definitely helps the team this time round. Can you enjoy occasions like this as a player? When you're in big games, you look like you were thriving once you're on the pitch at least. Yeah, you enjoy it more of your winning, obviously, but I think that's one of my regrets. And it's what I always say when you get asked, you know, what any advice to young players and stuff is you wish you'd enjoy the moments more than the occasion a bit more because

you can get tied up in the pressure of the game and obviously there's a lot of expectations so I think for the players there'll be a lot going through the mind at the moment and sometimes it's good to just step back a little bit and understand what they're doing and if they know what I'm sure they do

they know what's the belief in the hope from the fans back home I see it through my children and how excited they are and that's what they're given to a lot of fans back home and hopefully they can somehow find a way to enjoy it. But how do you enjoy it though?

Because I think obviously I'm not professional footballer yet. By no means. But I think like on that stage, you know, even like I, you know, when I do stand up, you know, I mean, I try to enjoy it. But when you've got, you know, however many thousands in front of you. Or when you're bombing as well. Like it's tough. I know, Rick, I've never bombed in my life, my grow up.

Apart from that one time in Carlisle. Anyway, but how do you try and enjoy it when there's so much at stake? Like, what would you try and implement as a player to try and enjoy it more? I think just recognise them where you're doing and what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve. And maybe just take it a bit of time to yourself and understanding that because the players will feel, you know, at all or not on it, it's due or dying. And I suppose it is in some ways. But actually, when you've come out of the game, you look back, you think you should have enjoyed your time.

You know, you're playing for your country. You represent your country at the highest level. You need to try and take it in a bit and, you know, take that experience. in. And for them players, it'll be very difficult and so there's no answer of how you enjoy it. But I think just taking it in and trying to have that freedom to help you on the pitch as well. So hopefully they find a way. And listen, there's all kind of sports psychologists out there as well who I'm sure the players will have to try and help, help them deal with that and enjoy it a bit more. The relationship between Thomas Soushal and his star player, one of his star players, Drew Bellingham is really fascinating from the outside.

We know that there have been some issues that Tushel has managed and we're now seeing Drew Bellingham absolutely flying at this tournament. And it is a testament, I think, to Thomas Tushel's style that he's kind of cracked this with Bellingham. I think his handling of Bellingham has been very calculated, starting from last year in terms of leaving him out of the squad. and I think he's known what he's doing and he's wanted a reaction from him

and he's getting a perfect reaction from him and in terms of the relationship and the interviews after the last game I think as a manager and you want players to talk and you want them to have their own opinions and their own personality and characters and that's what we're seeing and you don't always see it

I know back end of my career when I was playing and certainly as a manager I was encouraging me players to give me their thoughts and the players don't always have to agree with the manager as well. Give me your thoughts and let me know what you're feeling and we can try and work it out together and for me it was really refreshing seeing both interviews after the game. That happened. It happens behind closed doors a lot of the time. The manager will tell the players they're not good enough. They haven't been good enough for this game, sorry. And the players

will have the feedback and their thoughts back. That's when you have your team meetings and you want the players to speak up and have their own voice and that's what you've done as reaction to the video. And I agree with them as well in terms of It was hot. It's very difficult in that heating. And sometimes when you're on the sideline, you don't, and like now as a pundit, you sometimes forget about the conditions they're playing in

and just judge them on the performance where there's so many different things, which you have to factor him. We obviously don't know what happened after that. But what do you think they would have done? Do you mean, would they have just gone into a little room together and gone, hey, I just saw that interview and, you know, this is what I said,

or think Thomas will be a bit annoyed with him? Do they have a little chat on the rest? Do they not speak to them? I think Thomas Tushul will be absolutely delighted. I really do. And this happened so many times. And I said before, it's normally beyond closed doors. Players and managers, they have arguments, they have disagreements.

But that's for the benefit of the team. I've seen it. I've had many arguments with managers. But it's all to benefit the team. And they'll actually be laughing behind closed doors with the coverage it's got. I honestly think that. Also, I did understand, and I think anyone who's watched England throughout this tournament, understands what Thomas Tuchel means when he says he thinks that the players can do better.

Like, I don't think anyone would argue with that. Like, England have done really well getting through these games, but I don't think they've played at their absolute best, have they? No, and it's a good sign that they haven't been at the best, and the World Cup semifinal, it's a very good sign from that point of view. I think they will have to perform better. and I'd take any performance as long as we win tomorrow, but I think

they will have to have a better performance tomorrow against the good Argentine team. I think when a manager comes out and again, I'll go back to what I've said, I think Thomas Tusser has been very calculated with the timing of that. He could have said that after the Congo game, could have said that after the Panama game. I think the

timing of it is really important in terms of he's sending a strong message to his players. He will have said the exact same thing in the deskroom to the players. there's no miscommunication on that. But also to the fans, I think what it does for the fans is it shows that, you know, he's getting that message across to the players that he expects more better performances. What were you like to manage?

Straight to the point. Yeah. I would have been difficult as a manager to manage because I was very opinionated. Very similar to what you've done today. I'd have, you know, discussions and arguments and discreet with the managers inside the restroom because I always feel I'd speak my mind and if I felt the manager was wrong and what he was saying I'd tell him

and that's exactly how I wanted my place to be as a manager didn't quite work out that well but you have to have discussions otherwise you're going into a time where you're having a manager as a dictator and as someone who's speaking and you just have to do what he wants the best players and the best moments in football

throughout the history of the game are done from players taking the game into their own hands and going against, probably what the managers asked them to do. It's very interesting what you said about there, about managers sometimes being dictators, because it seems very much like Thomas Tuchel is like pals, like mates with the players, but then they also respect him that when it comes to actually,

we need to take instructions from this guy, and you've seen, you know, Declan Rice came out, and he said, oh, the instructions it gave us at half-time, what hydration break, we're like, oh, wow. But there's still that kind of. kind of like, I don't want to use the word banter, but like friendly banter. Yeah, between the players and him. And I think it's just a fine balance, isn't it?

Well, a lot of the managers are like that. And Alex Ferguson was a athlete there. Really? I remember me and Ronaldo, and we used to play pranks on him all the time. And throughout the week, but then when it got to... Is that where Rio got the idea for his Merced stuff? Probably. No, but for managers, they want to be part of that as well.

but when you're on the training pitch putting your work in and tactically how you're working and obviously on match day it becomes serious and you know that's where Alex Erickson was at his best but he was you know soft-hearted

and loved enjoying the banter for sure you've got to tell us what pranks he did on Sarah Alex Ferguson come on no we just had little ones where we go to throw the ball to him and he goes to kick it and one of us remember one I'm going to be a champion.

Champions League away game. I was actually lying under the table where there was a clock hanging down for me. And then Ronaldo passed the ball to him and as he's gone to kick it, I just stuck me hard out and to move the ball. So there was full setups to them, how he'd done it and stuff.

But he loved it as well because it kept him feeling younger. You don't expect it. Well, we've talked about, you know, Jude Bellingham and how vital he is to this England team. The other person who clearly is instrumental in order of success that the team are having is Harry Kane, who, you know, at, is he 31, 32 now?

He does seem to be getting better and better. He does, and I think he'll be an absolute nightmare for Argentina to play games because with Romero and Martinez, they're aggressive centrebacks and they'll want to be tied to him, and Harry Kane can drag them into areas, which they won't want to go, but they will go to, but they won't want to go and then it's important to play we have runners off Hurricane tomorrow so I think he'll be a nightmare for them but in terms of certainly since he's gone to Germany

as games evolved massively and he started a few years before that at Tottenham but his game how it evolved and dropping in and Lincoln play and creating goals and still being able to do that and score even more goals and recent numbers he's reached is incredible and he's our best player

Harry Kane's our best players, I don't think... I think Duke Bellingham as being our best played at the tournament but Harry Kane's our best player and a most important player for me. I completely agree

since going to Germany he has just a few more notches that he's just accessed and he's paying a lot, lot deeper and he's just in every position in the park and if I'm honest it reminds me a little bit of you do you mean like you'd be up top

then the next thing you know you're putting challenges in the box do you see yourself in Harry Kane? Probably more than you do in Harry I've been honest in terms of a bit more explosive and dynamic and drive and hunger to get on the undercrosses in the way Jude has done this tournament. I think with Harry, what's really impressive with him is he has dropped and played a bit more as a number 10 and sometimes deeper than that, but he still managed to keep his goal tally

incredible. And when I played as a 10, my goals had scored within, weren't as good as when I played as a 9, where Isis has continued to stay at that level. Also there's that nice understanding between Bellingham and Kane where if Kane drops, Bellingham goes forward and vice versa and it just works, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. I think it's more of a two in midfield.

I know he played deeper in, I can't know what game was, one of the games. He played in the midfield. I think he might have to do that tomorrow. Out of possession, make a three in midfield rather than being as a 10 or a second forward to help us out defensively. But, yeah, that relationship is, it seemed to grow as the tournament's gone on.

And I think we'll need more runners. For me personally, tomorrow, he won't do it. But I play Rashford and Andy Gordon outwards and I've runners and speed running beyond. But the relationship between them too, as the two key players as well. And it looks like they look closer in this tournament than he did in the last tournament in terms of

they look more matey, if you like. Yeah. It's just quite nice them doing each of the celebrations and stuff. It's just, you know, they're getting on. They're getting on really well. I do think Harry needs a new celebration. it's not the best one but I like you to one

I've done you to one actually quite a few times yeah we talked in the the last game against Norway how do you nullify Erling Harland and we managed to do that

with the help of a dead leg how do you try and nullify Leon or Messi it's a good question not many of people no I think with communication

and you have to always be aware where Messi is because sometimes he doesn't look into testing the game and he's walking and he's not involved in it, but then he comes to life at the right moment and he has these moments of genius. And so I think the communication and checking your shoulder always knowing and being aware where he is

is going to be very important tomorrow to try and stop him. Do you think that will be kind of Declan Rice's department? Do you think he'll be asked to keep an eye on Messi? I think for Rice and Anderson, that's why I said I dropped Jude in alongside him defensively as well to have that extra player in there because Declan Rice and Elliot Anderson for me, one of the biggest

assets in the game is how they go and press the ball and I think that could be quite dangerous to do that against Ireland with Messi picking up positions because normally players have dropped back in so when they're defending, that type of player number 10 or if he plays towards the right, are back in helping

you could see them when you lose the ball but a lot of time with Messi when you lose the ball he's in behind you if you go and press there, my field players like St. McAllister, one pass could absolutely take Anderson and definitely rise out the game. And so I think that that's what I'm saying. The communication from the backland to them to have to be really important. And the discipline has to be top notch.

Before we let you go, Wayne, you've kind of been stitched up a little bit by producer Lizzie, who has let us know that you like to listen to and watch musicals to relax. Obviously, you'll be going to New York for the rowing and also the games. Will you be catching any musicals on Broadway whilst you there? And if so, what? No, I don't think so, not this time. Well, that goes back to what you said before big games. I've mentioned this a few times.

Before the Champions League Final, I was sat in the day of the game watching Cister Act. Perfect. So, yeah, I love musicals. I love the Jersey Boys, Frankie Valley. Well, we went, actually, again, I forgot about it. Before the Champions League Final at Wembley, two days before, Alex Fairxon took us all to watch Jersey Boys in London. in the theatre.

Oh, wow. Imagine that. That didn't work too well that one night. Should have gone to Lion King. I know. That's not the night out with the famous outfits, that photo, is it? No, that was a night out. This was obviously to won't go much to play.

Frankie Valley was there as well, actually. No way. He was at the show. Yeah. Oh, my days. I love Frankie Valley. Yes, he was there as well, yeah. You've made boys a day.

If I'm honest, I didn't think I'd be chatting about Frankie Valley with Wayne whilst in America at the World Cup Whilst getting brutally sound Yeah, I just feel like you've made this little fat kid's dream come true I love musicals too, Wayne What did you call him? Shut up, hey, wait, I absolutely love musicals

I do a little bit of singing myself But if you ever want to go to anything I'd love to accompany you to a musical I just No problem, sure we can arrange it Please don't feel under any pressure to do that Can you just reassure us quickly, Wayne, that England are going to be Argentina?

Yeah, I think he will I really do, I think we'll win. I think it would be tough. It'd be tough if we do win to go and play a very good Spain team. But yeah, I backed England before a tournament and nothing's changed. I still think we'll be winning here. Lovely. Love it. Thanks so much, Wayne. Nice chatting to you. Cheers, Wayne. Good luck out on the river. Cheers. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Do you remember when we had Casper Schmeichler over? Yeah. To our house and I'd said to you,

obviously, don't show him photos or the goalie gloves that you've got because that would be embarrassing. And as soon as the interview finished, you started showing him the photos of your Goldie Club. He brought it up. And it was, he didn't. And it was embarrassing.

I think that that was toe-curlingly awful. I don't think as cringe-worthy, as you desperately saying to Wayne Rooney, oh, can we go to a musical together? I'll wear my grimsby. It wasn't desperate.

You were, mate. It wasn't. The poor guy. I mean, he's very polite about it, but hear me out. footballers aren't often into musicals, okay? He's a footballer, what are footballers into? Going out, Calvin Harris, vodka, FIFA.

That's the trio. Yeah. And if you are a footballer, and this is an open invitation, if you're a footballer listen to this to this. No, seriously, you probably haven't got that many allies in theatre, like, friends, okay? So, like, oh, actually, who can I go to the theatre with? Imagine. Wayne Rooney is not going to go and watch cats with you.

No, but listen, who's Wayne Rooney going to watch Cats with? Do I mean, because... Kaleen? Maybe Kaleen. Yeah, but Killeen's also busy. So, imagine Wayne, in his heyday, at the United, lads, yeah? Rio, do you fancy Phantom? Exactly.

No. The Rolls Royce, yeah. Well, there you go. So I just thought, well, do you know what? I'll offer myself up. I like going to musicals. I've got a few friends in musicals. Not clanging.

Shout out to Luke Kempner and Lamey. He's a lovely lad, yeah. So I just thought, you know, offer it out. And if there are any footballers listening or watching that are like, do you know what? I love musicals, but I don't really have anyone to go with. Lloyd Griffithyman, that is me. Just drop me a DM on LinkedIn and we can sort it all out.

If Wayne Rooney goes to a musical with you, I will pay you £100. That'll be great. That'll pay for two drinks at the interval. And maybe some popcorn. And that is a lifelong. I will pay that out at any time. But on your deathbed, when you haven't been to a musical with Wayne Rooney,

you need to make sure in your will there is contingency if you might have £100 if I'm still alive. You won't be. I probably won't be, actually. The amount of pastrami chips you're already. That's good point, actually. That's good point. The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary. And so on the Global Story podcast from the BBC,

we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people, people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story, and a lot of people have bought it. I feel like the American dream is alive, but not well. From the BBC, it's the United States at 250. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Life 4. Hello, I'm Alastair Bruce Ball, and I'll be commentating on the World Cup for the BBC this summer.

There's a commentator favorite World Cup moment. France, four, Argentina, three in Russia. 2018. Amazing goal from Benjamin Pavard in that game on the half volley. What makes the World Cup such a special tournament? It's its exotic nature. I think particularly as a kid, it just seemed to happen in far off lands that you'd only ever dreamt about or heard about. The People World Cup 2026. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily Podcasts at the People World Cup 2026 with Rick Edwards and Lloyd Griffith. BBC Sounds.

So Spain are through to the World Cup final after beating France 2-0 in what was a really dominant performance in the end. Julian Loran joins us now. Jules, first of all, I felt bad. The first person I felt bad for was you. I was like, Julian's going to be absolutely gutted about this. And it is, and it does feel tough to take because this whole tournament everyone's been like, France are amazing.

France are the best. No one could beat France. Alisa is the best in the world. Who could stop this attack? And it turns out the answer to all those questions was Spain. Yeah, I think you summed it up quite well, to be fair. I think the most disappointing from the French point of view, from our point of view, is that it feels they just didn't show up.

And I think you can lose to a better team in Spain were much better than credit to them. They were really good on the day. That midfield of Daniel Moe, Roder, and Fabian just ran the game. And they were great. And even without a great, I mean, Jamal or Greta Oiazabal or Bahena. That front three was not great. But yeah, they still dominated the game and controlled everything.

It's just the French didn't show up. That front four that we talked about so many times didn't show up. I was super disappointed by the game plan from Deshaun. Some of his choices as well, I would know I've started Barcold out to Armani. I think Rabio and Connie have done really well in infield before. I think Duay should have started the game too. Just to be better in terms of controlling the tempo.

and controlling the game as much as the French could have done. And then there was no plan B once the planet from Deschant didn't work. You know, the 4-2-3-1 looked great on paper, but that phone 4 never clicked. And I felt they needed a bit more in midfield, so that Chuanini could play with Coney and Rabio all together. So there's a lot of things that went wrong for us. Take nothing away from Spain, they were fantastic and back to their best, really. If you thought that before in the tournament, they were not at their best, I thought they were really at the best today.

But the French didn't show up and that's a massive disappointment. Killeen Mbapé seemed to agree with you in his post-match comments. I mean, it was like we were three against two in midfield, against Spain, that's hard. And they said we didn't play the game we wanted technically or tactically. And we're sloppy technically. And I couldn't quite work out whether that was a criticism of Deshaun. Is that how you read it? Yeah, I saw it that way.

Yeah, I thought it was, you know, some players do post-match interviews, and there's not really much in there. They answer the question. It's not, there's nothing too deep, or the analysis is not that great. Arthur his and Cherkees, I don't know if you saw Ryan Sherkekeke's after the game, who was, like, in freestyle modes, going really strong. Both of them were fantastic for different reasons. And Bap, you're right. The way I saw it was, if you don't want to go as far as the criticism of the, Deschon and the game plan, certainly questioning the game plan would be enough because I think

he's right, the 3V2 in midfield and how French were lost that midfield battle was one of the keys in the game, undoubtedly, and clearly Deschon could have done it differently. And if he didn't want to do it from the start, I mean, after 20 minutes and the penalty, which was a massive mistake from Lucardine and a massive turning point in the game. But after that we could all see that the French were overplayed, overrun in midfield, and that something had to be done and Deshaun never did anything about it. That's the first thing.

The other big thing for me that Mbapé said was like the game plan, the idea was to press them high so they could not get the tempo on the game that they wanted and that the press didn't work. And to be fair, it looked to me like the French never worked on that high press that it looked so disjointed

that those players came in into the game not really knowing what each of them had to do, which is scandalous really. As bad as almost taking Rabiou off at half time because it was a number. a yellow card despite being our best player, that was as scandalous as the clearly poor preparation on the pressing side of it from Deshaun. I mean, it is worth actually just some of these Ryan Cherokee.

Do you want to do the accent? Cherokee after the game, yeah, it goes, it's an immense disappointment. Different accent. Okay, sorry, no. He says there's an immense disappointment. Today we lost against ourselves. Do French. We didn't lose against the referee.

Sorry, I'm going to stop you there. I'm going to stop you there. Do French. Yeah, here we go. And then Julia Just give you a second after us, please. I know. There we go.

Today's immense disappointment. We lost against ourselves. We didn't lose against Ruffrey. We didn't lose against Spain. We lost against ourselves. You don't know everyone is scared of us. The only team were capable of eliminating us was ourselves. Today was Terrible.

Jules, are you still there? Lyon? Is Ryan with us? Still there, Jules. Is Ryan in the room with us? Is Ryan in the room with us? you see me play football mate you know he's not

but I mean that's pretty that's about as yeah scathing on yourself as you can get an absolutely fair play why do you think

you mentioned earlier why do you think they didn't turn up today I think I think Ryan is right I think Cherokee is right and we said it to you at the beginning of the tournament I've said it many times

on Five Live one of the things that could make this team go wrong was being far too confident, arrogant, cocky, whatever you want, which is what we have in us, obviously, and it's exactly what happened.

And Cherokee said it, even if you look more for the quotes, he said, when we were winning and things looked or seemed a bit easy, we got carried away. And I think they've gone into this game thinking Spain haven't been that great, they struggle a bit against Belgium, last minute winner against Portugal,

drawing against Cap Verde. We've been flying from the start. Nobody can stop us. this is going to be easy. I really believe that they approached the game that way in the purest French way you could imagine and then look at what happened. I think there might have been a bit of nerves.

If you look at Mikhailolise, and how amazing he's been, not just in this World Cup, but the whole season with Bionic. I mean, it was his twin brother. It's not possible that it was him. Every touch was bad. At some point he was hiding on the right-hand side,

almost like if he didn't want to touch the ball. Roderry was on him all the time and just keeping him completely quiet and I think if Alisa is not on a good day then France would struggle obviously but if he's the same with Dembele as well who had enough there too Barcola I'm not really sure what he was doing on the left

and side then that means Zimbabé is isolated your midfield as we said before was dominated then you lost saliva after 20 minutes because his back was a problem before it's been a problem for a few weeks and it was worse today and then that was it and your first half and hour

you give away the penalty and after that the game is over already. I think you talk about giving away the penalty. I think a lot of people have kind of split France into two parts really. Fantastic going forward and then not incredible and prone to mistakes at the back. None's really talked about. They'd only let two goals in across before today. Absolutely. But they still, I think, looked a little bit shaky at the back.

And today, I mean, it was all a little bit unpicked. The penalty, I think, is soft. But, you know, we've seen so many of those penalties given. this tournament rightly or wrongly. And then the second goal, I mean, they just, they, they, they, they just gave them the keys to the door. They did, but it is interesting that the two goals, I do think that the penalty, I know that it,

that it is a penalty, but it is also a very, very soft penalty. Hmm. To, to my mind. And then for the goal, it's not really, I don't know what you think. I didn't think it was the, it was the defense. It's the fact that Porro had two people near him. I think Duwe and, maybe Kone and they he just sort of ran off between them and neither of them went went with him and

I just like that that's I didn't necessarily think that that was a defensive problem as much as it just you haven't picked up a runner yeah but I think when you look back everyone's static like everyone is all the whole the whole back four the whole back five just absolutely static and no one was running even at the replay when you look back Lugadini has just stopped and it's like even let's just say that that goal hadn't been scored Lucidini is still like 30, 40 yards away because he'd kind of look like he'd just given up. So, yeah, I think obviously the midfield, we haven't really talked about it.

But very much today, they just opened up and let Spain expose them. Yeah, and as good as Spain were, and they were much better than us. And, you know, there's no, again, there's no issue with that. Even if France had showed up, they might have been too strong. But at the end of the day, as well, especially at that level, those kind of mistakes, just made the difference. So the penalty, I'm not even sure what Dean is doing. If he really thinks that at this level with Laminia on his side,

he's got the time to put the ball with his head in the air, wait for the ball to come down, turn around, to try to volley away, then it's even more stupid than what, you know, I thought he did. Then if you look at the chance that Fabian Rees has, lovely move between Daniel Moore and Laminia Marlon. It's a poor pass from Mignon that they intercepted Spain and then one on the attack, and really they should have scored on that. And then the goal, the second goal, the third big chance that they had, Desire

Dezre duet, who just come on from Barcola, is supposed to follow Pedro Porro. And like Rick just said, you don't follow your runners, plus Connell, Lacroix, and Dying are just ballwatching, and that's the second goal. And that's it. And at that level, you can't afford those mistakes. And Spain didn't make any mistakes today, probably because we didn't push them enough to even think about them making a mistake. But the French made three mistakes, and that should have, of course, you know, cause three

goes and he was only two in the end. He could easily have more. There was that moment in like the 80 second minute, I think, where Unae Simon comes out. And it was probably the only mistake that I think Spain made. And for a player of his quality, I think he should be scoring that. Because it's a lob. Just take it quickly, lob it into the goal.

There's no one, I think Kubasi is running back. But fundamentally, I think you should score. And he just sort of scuffs it into. into Tijuana, I guess you could say does quite well. But he should have scored that and getting a goal back. The point is that Spain never, you never rattled Spain. Spain were never under any pressure. We don't know how they would have reacted.

So there is a kind of slight sliding doors moment there for me because maybe then suddenly it sort of clings into gear for France. Yeah, no, you're right. And Dewe has two options of passage. There's one in the middle. I think it's Dembele. there's one Mbapé who was chasing the ball in the first place when when I Simon came out

who is also inside the box that may be the way he can find and instead I'm okay for you shooting but don't give me this like you know crappy ball that he tried I'm not even sure what he's trying to do really no I don't know what he was trying to say that word and that and that's bad in itself the French expected goal is 0.23 if I'm not mistaken which is the worst according to opt at the worst in the last 60 years in World Cups something like that.

At some point, you know, if you don't try, you can't even score. We didn't get close enough to the box. The lack of creativity. And again, you know, I blame Deschant. This, as we said before, this was Deschance like, I know there's that mini final that is completely pointless on Saturday for third or fourth place. But Deschon's 14-year career in the national team. Which, you know, it's been great for 14 years.

But I think today he also led the team there. And the players let him down and let the country and the fans down, sure, because they didn't show up, as we said, especially the stars. But he was really poor from start to finish. And as a head coach, Delafonte had a plan, and I know they're different because they play football so well, and they have that kind of mentality. But if your plan A doesn't work, or if your plan is actually bad,

then you should have a plan B and change to something else. And Deshaun never had that. Speaking of the country, how are people feeling in France? Because obviously, there was quite high expectations. France was sailing through this tournament. Everyone had them down as their favourites. What's the vibe back home? I think there was a lot of shock, to be fair.

It's a great question because I think everybody got to be carried away. And yesterday I did a few shows as well. So the day before the game, today, the day of the game. And nobody was saying like, oh, this is going to be easy, we're going to be Spain. But there was a lot of, this is the best team. France had the best team left in the tournament. Better than Spain, better than England, better than Argentina. The debate yesterday back home was,

would this be a failure if France don't win the World Cup? This is what it was. So in a lot of people's mind, it was already the final was there, and we should have won it. And I did say, oh, failure is a strong word here, you know, because we might be the best left in this tournament, suddenly on the basic of what we saw in this tournament so far, but the other three teams are good starting with Spain.

And yet it felt like, yeah, a lot of us got a bit carried away. But again, it's that arrogance that we said before, we have in us and that sometimes make us implode. I guess I wanted to know if you were, you know, could you hear the people sing, singing the song of angry men? No, yeah. He hasn't got to that point yet. But don't forget, yesterday was our, you know, our national day.

I don't know, you said, you know, Bastille Day. So it was a very special day. Bastille Day. Yeah, and he felt like nothing can go wrong, surely on Bastille Day where everything went wrong, pretty much. We do need to give full credits to Spain for their performance. They, their midfield was so dominant, as you mentioned. Roderie just controlled the game. And I've noticed him sort of growing into the tournament

and being more and more like peak Man City, Roderie. Like, he's been fantastic. And I think overall, I don't know if you would agree with this as a sort of broad assessment, but in a way, France, a great group of individuals, some spectacularly talented individuals, and then a team in Spain and the team beat the individuals.

Yeah, and I think the French try to beat that collective force, but it's not just let's put those four together and give them the ball and they will make it work. I think there's far more work to be done and I don't think Deshaun did that work and we mentioned the press and how disjointed that was. I think with the ball it was a bit the same because if individually you can't do the different,

because the other team is defending well or you know at your best maybe on that day then it's okay because collectively you can move the balls in such a way your patterns of play are so strong that even if individually you're maybe not your best collectively you're still so strong and the French don't have that Spain have it and when they play like they did against us

they were fantastic and Roderie I don't know what happened between the rodry that we saw with Man City this season for example and the rodrigo that we see in this war cup because Ballando Rodriguez is back and this is the level and it's incredible. The final you can put Pedri on the bench for Fabian Rees, who is not as good of a player,

you know, technically in the vision, in the creativity than Pedres, but brings you so much balance, so much work ethic, so much everything, is great. And then for me, the unsung hero here is Daniel Mo, who is like an old-school player in the sense. You know what? Like, today football is so much about data and stats

and how many goals and how many assists and expected goals and everything you want. Daniel Moe in this tournament has zero goal. One show on target in seven games, two assists, and yet he's probably Spain most important player. His intelligence and football IQ is out of this world. And again, I think against the French, he was just so outstanding.

And I think people don't praise him enough for what he brings to this team. Buckle up, Julian. I've got some Spain stats for you, which you're not going to enjoy. So they've equaled Italy's record for the longest unbeaten run in international football.

matches. The five European players with the most appearances at the World Cup and Euros combined without ever losing all play for Spain. Laporte, Oyathabao, Fabian Ruiz, Mikhail Marino and Laminemarle.

He's seven years old. He's never lost a game for Spain. He's also started 12 games at the World Cup and Euros combined. Won all of them. It's the best 100% win rate of any European player. across the two competitions when starting. Spain in the first team in World Cup history

to keep six clean sheets in a single World Cup. I mean, obviously there is one more game, but I mean, still, it's impressive. And as you mentioned, the XG that they faced against France, it was 0.3 is the lowest by a nation in a semi-final in the competition since Brazil against Sweden in 1994. The point being, they're really, really, really good. And I suppose the next obvious question is, can either England or Argentina stop them?

Yeah, it's a great question. Of those two, I think only England can. I don't think Argentina have enough left in the tank. Good answer. Not enough intensity in their game. I don't think Argentina will be England tomorrow anyway. So that sorts it out. I think the way England can do it and the belt, they got close obviously in the last Euro.

We were all there. And there was not much difference between the two teams. It's that thing, the physicality and the intensity that England can put in that game against Spain, which you will have to just disturb that rhythm and the tempo that the French could not get because we could not touch them even. We were so far in every ball, in every jewels and everything. England won't be like that. And you know what I like.

And the French, we never had that in this tournament. They're going from strength to strength thing. Because every game for France, probably because of the level of. the opposition, even Morocco, was just not good enough. Where we're Spain, a bit like England, got a slow start, and then starting building that momentum and being their own strength to get to this level now where they are at their best. And I think England will be at their best against Argentina.

They will win that. And then the final would be a great game between them too. But I think this makes a difference in tournaments like this, where you get at your best at the right time. You don't pick too early, and you get where you want exactly. when you want it. And I think England have that.

Argentina don't have it. It's a similar pathway than France, really, for Argentina. And again, like I said earlier, I don't think they've got much left in the tank

anyway. Certainly not for England and even less, if they did be England for the final against me. Have you spoken to Guillaum? No, and I really don't want to

and I'm glad because I thought it was going to be on. I said to my kids, oh, Guillem. Well, Jules, we've actually got him in the pub. Guillem,

come on Dr. Imagine your face then. He's like, no. Lloyd, he's gone. He's gone. Jules, well, look, it's been lovely chatting to, as always. And I'm sorry about the result. And we will see you in New York, hopefully.

Let me know when you arrive. I'll be rooting for England tomorrow, as you know, obviously. And just for you too. You're a great man. And then let's hope for the best for the final then. Absolutely. All right, Jules, just get a better at this point. Just go to better and forget about it all.

Also, never forget. It's just a silly game. That's all it is. It's just football. Exactly. Fast forward, 24 hours later, Rick is naked on this table. Smashing things. Smashing things, getting arrested.

It's just a silly game. We'll see you in New York. All right, cheers, mate. See you later. Well, after all that, excitement. More excitement coming. England, Argentina, semi-final later today. What a sentence, Rick.

I know. I know. I am starting to feel sick about it now. I almost don't want to watch the game. But we are going. to. We'll have live commentary from 8pm on 5 Live Sport. You can also watch the TV pictures with the 5 Live commentary. Obviously that's the best way of doing it. Plenty of content across the BBC to get yourself stuck into in the meantime on IPlayer, BBC Sounds and the website.

We will be back with the podcast after the game, hopefully celebrating or it's going to be a bleak podcast. Make sure you subscribe to the Football Daily feed on BBC Sounds. Get your push notifications turned on in your settings. Why don't you? Rick, come on, mate. The 2023 Ballandor, France footballer is Lionel Messi. The winner is Chrisanarado. This is the story of the greatest rivalry in the history of sport, a rivalry that split football into two fates for a generation.

There could be no, oh, Messi and Ronaldo, are both great players. There had to be one that was better. They 100 million percent pushed each other to the next level. You know, we were the lucky one to. I'm Steve Crossman. This is Sporting Giants, Messi v. Ronaldo. Listen first on BBC Sounds.

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