Forbidden History - Hitler’s Darkest Family Secret

Episode Date: June 30, 2026

Some of the most shocking cases connected with the regime's bloody reign, beginning with Hitler's niece Geli Raubal, who was found dead in his apartment in 1931. Cast List: Eric Meyers: Narrator L...earn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:58 Head over and become a forbidden historian to unlock brand new exclusive episodes, including the very first episode in our brand new Patreon series, Forbidden History, Inner Circle. In this exclusive episode, we discuss the story of Nazis escaping to Egypt, with me, your host, Eric Myers, joined by published author and historian Tony McMahon. Head over to our Patreon for much more exclusive Forbidden Hizabeth. history content. Thanks for supporting the show. In 1931, Gaylee Raubel, the niece of Adolf Hitler, was found dead at his apartment in Munich.
Starting point is 00:01:41 Although officially ruled a suicide, many people believe the truth about her death has been covered up. But by whom? And what were they trying to hide? They were quite close. Probably, by the looks of it, they were a bit too close. There was something quite pathological with how obsessed he was with everything that she did. It was, at the very least, possessive, cruel, exploitative, manipulative, that he'd actually gone right into the boundaries of outright sexual abuse. Munich is the capital of Bavaria and the third largest city in Germany, a home to renowned universities and cultural institutions.
Starting point is 00:02:26 But in 1931, it was home to the capital of Bavaria and the third largest city in Germany, In 1931, it was home to the Nazi Party headquarters and the private residence of Adolf Hitler. It was that same year that Gaily Raubel, Hitler's niece, was found dead in his apartment at the age of just 23 from an apparent suicide. But the events leading up to her death and the secrecy surrounding the investigation into it have caused many to question the official verdict, with suggestions of incest, murder, and a cover-up within the Nazi party, just months before seizing power. There was a close relationship, the precise nature of that relationship is still very much unclear. 1925 was a formative year for Adolf Hitler.
Starting point is 00:03:15 Recently released from Landsberg Prison for his part in the Beer Hall Putsch, he announced the re-establishment of the Nazi party and proclaimed himself its leader. That same year, he formed the SS, released his book Mind Kampf, and bought an apartment near the party headquarters in Munich. This is where Hitler's niece, Galey Raubel, lost her life sometime between September the 17th and 18th, 1931. It was a suicide, according to the official story. However, in my opinion, the evidence that it was murder is equally as compelling, if not more.
Starting point is 00:03:55 Mordfra are, mynest eraschens... In the mid-1920s, Hitler asked his half-sister angler to come and be his housekeeper when he bought his first ever property, which was the house Wachenfeld, which later became the Beerchof, his mountain retreat in the Barbarian Alps. She came there with her two daughters, Gellian Elfrida. Hitler took a particular shine to his eldest niece. Gaily Roble. Geli was young, vivacious.
Starting point is 00:04:31 She was someone who had a ready smile. Geli was a thoroughly normal young woman. She was cheerful, she was bubbly, not hugely intelligent, I would say, but certainly life-affirming and fun. One of Hitler's confidants is photographer Heinrich Hoffman, said that Geli could light up a room. She could change the mood in a room.
Starting point is 00:04:55 So she was certainly someone who was so lively individual that was very popular. So very different really from the person we imagine Hitler to be. Hitler was a sort of dower kind of person. He was very much a kind of a depressive type of person. You know, you had to cheer Hitler up and she did that. He was delighted with Gehli. He found her refreshing, cheerful. With her he could sort of forget the cares of a professional politician.
Starting point is 00:05:25 politician and just enjoy her company. That was how it sort of innocently all began. Over time, Gaylee started to develop into a headstrong and ambitious young woman. She was described as whimsical, funny and mischievous, a stark contrast to her uncle Adolf. Hitler was an old-fashioned, rather bourgeois individual in his behaviour. Generally, but specifically towards women. He used to kiss ladies' hands, was very polite.
Starting point is 00:05:58 At the same time, he didn't think that women had much to contribute beyond looking pretty and producing children. Despite his misogynist views, from a young age, some of Hitler's most intense personal relationships had been with the women in his life. Hitler's attitude to women was weird. He certainly had an over-closed relationship with his own mother, which veered between him dominating her and then being sentimentally attached to her.
Starting point is 00:06:30 In fact, the doctor who treated Hitler's mother in her last illness said he had never seen a closer attachment in all his years of practice as that between Hitler and his mother Clara. Hitler's mother had doted on him as a boy. But after she was diagnosed with cancer when he was just a teenager, Hitler took up caring for her, completely devoted to her until the end. It was said that he never recovered from the loss of his mother.
Starting point is 00:07:02 He didn't have a proper girlfriend until he's nearly 37. So that's rather strange, isn't it? For a heterosexual man, to go that long without having a girlfriend, if he was highly sexed, why don't we see in Vienna some girlfriends? Why don't we see in the early Nazi period some girlfriends? We don't see any. He had a puritanical disgust in his youthful years in Vienna with the sexual life that was going on around him.
Starting point is 00:07:32 He did visit the Red Light District in Vienna, but not as a customer. He went there to express disgust at what was going on there. Hitler had always liked to cultivate the image of a man married only to his country with no time for romantic pursuits. He felt, therefore, that his... young niece, Gaily, would be the perfect option to provide him with day-to-day companionship. It was the beginnings of a relationship that would ultimately end in tragedy.
Starting point is 00:08:04 He would take her to, you know, dinners, he would take her to restaurants, he would take her to parties, and so people sort of thought, ooh, is she, you know, is she, is that his girlfriend? From about 1927, they were relatively close. so they saw each other often. Hitler used to take her to accompany him to events, not necessarily political events, but could be musical events. So he used to often have Geli on his arm.
Starting point is 00:08:36 It developed into quite a close relationship between the two of them. You know, she was quite attractive. He didn't have any Gail friends. So she became his kind of consort. But before long, the relationship stopped being one of convenience, of convenience and instead turned into something far more intense.
Starting point is 00:08:57 Many believe now, as they did then, that Hitler was no longer looking at Galey as just his niece. There was a close relationship, the precise nature of that relationship is still very much unclear. They were so close, I mean you can see this in some of the photographs of them, you know, there's a kind of coquettishness about Galey that Hitler liked, and you see them looking comfortable together, you know, there's definitely a chemistry there between them. Hitler's feelings towards Gelly changed very much, whereas the oldest she got. I think she was 17 when they first got together. From 1929, certainly when she moved in with him, he seems to have developed this rather obsessive guardianship over her, a sense of wanting to control every aspect of her life. Hitler was becoming very attached to her. I think Hitler loved her, you know, I don't think there's any doubt
Starting point is 00:09:52 about that. I think he may have been physically attracted to her as well. Whether she was physically attracted to Hitler is doubtful. Hitler certainly does appear to have taken his role as Guardian very, very seriously, even to the point of an obsession that he was very controlling over her life, wanted to prevent her from having any relationships outside. By the time Galey reached her late teens, she had started to become tired of being her uncle's accessory. By the time she was about 19, she wanted to study, and she wanted to wear makeup and go to dances and do all the things that a normal teenage young woman would want to do. And of course, he found this unacceptable. She was his pet, his plaything, if you like, even if no playing took place. and he resented deeply her desire for independence.
Starting point is 00:10:50 She felt it was a little bit oppressive, really. So she wanted freedom, and Hitler, of course, he was history's greatest control freak. Gilly, who was very lively, very flighty individual. It was very normal, I suppose, for her to want to have relationships and relationships beyond the relationship she had, platonic or otherwise with her uncle. But Hitler liked to try and control everything.
Starting point is 00:11:15 aspect of her life. As she got older, she wanted to have, you know, relationships with men other than Hitler, and she started to have a secret relationship with Hitler's chauffeur, Emil Maurice. By the time Gaylee reached her late teens, she had started to become tired of being her uncle's accessory. Gaylee was said to have fallen deeply in love with a member of Hitler's close inner circle. Emil Maurice was Hitler's chauffeur and part of his personal protection detail. According to Maurice, he and Gaily had planned to marry,
Starting point is 00:11:52 but when Hitler found out, he demanded they put an end to their relationship. He particularly got enraged at the idea that she was having an erotic sexual relationship with one of his close aides. He actually found them together in a compromising situation and had a riding whip in his hand, which he habitually carried at that time, and threatened to a horse whip, literally. Morris had to jump out of the window to escape. And in fact, from that time on,
Starting point is 00:12:22 he lost his position at Hitler's side and lost his leading position in Hitler's circle. So there's no doubt that Hitler's feelings for Geli went from uncally normal affection into an all-consuming semi-erotic passion. There was something quite pathological with how obsessed he was with everything that she did. You know, absolutely showing interest in caring is one thing.
Starting point is 00:12:50 But being competitive with potential suitors, that's not what one would expect to see in a normal uncle-niece relationship. The nature of their relationship had become so unstable that it wasn't just Hitler who was displaying domineering behavior. Strangely, Gaylee, too, had started to show signs of jealousy. All the people around them thought there was some kind of frie-song between them. If she started to talk to, say, younger men, he wouldn't like it. And if he started to talk to women, she wouldn't like it.
Starting point is 00:13:25 They were quite close. Probably, by the looks of it, they were a bit too close. This is supposed to be a platonic relationship, but this seemed to border on almost a pseudo-sexual relationship, or at least something that implied something more intimate. That's why when you read this case, it's very unsettling. Desperate to live life on her own terms, she started to push back against his rules and demands, often resulting in explosive arguments. She had probably quite a strong will, which resulted.
Starting point is 00:14:00 resulted in dramatic verbal clashes between her and Hitler, the more she wanted to forge her own path, go out, escape his total and all-consuming control. And the more she did that, the more hysterical he got, and the more determined to thwart that desire. The unusual nature of their relationship did not go unnoticed by those around them, and people had started to talk.
Starting point is 00:14:27 But they would realize in the years to come, to come that their loose tongues would cost them their freedom and even their lives. Eyewitnesses and people in Hitler's entourage realized that the relationship was becoming quite fraught. They were having arguments. Some neighbors said they could hear them shouting in the apartment through the walls. There are some people who were around the scene at the time. You know, Albert Speer was one of them. Hoffman, who was his photographer, mentions, this in his memoirs about these blazing rows that they had. So people saw this.
Starting point is 00:15:06 By now, rumors had also started to circulate that Hitler's relationship with Galey was far darker than had previously been thought. There were rumors that Geli had told friends, people she met, that Hitler had gone far beyond the bounds of uncley affection, that he had made pornographic drawings of her in the nude and that he'd actually gone right into the boundaries of outright sexual abuse of the woman. One of the people who reported that Galey had confided in them was Otto Straser.
Starting point is 00:15:43 Strasser was a member of the Nazi party and a political rival of Adolf Hitler. He maintained that Galey had told him that Hitler demanded things of her that were in her words simply disgusting, adding that she never dreamed that such things could happen. We'll never know whether that's true or not. But as political opponents certainly suggested that this was the case, and the relationship was so public that it couldn't really be kept secret, and people certainly raised eyebrows about it. With the Nazi Party on the verge of seizing power,
Starting point is 00:16:19 they could ill-afford any public scandals, especially relating to the leader of the party, being romantically involved with his young niece. They saw it as a possible cause of embarrassment and blackmail. Hitler's opponents, the political opponents would use it to blackmail or to suggest that the furor was involved in a perverse relationship with his own niece. To the party, image was everything, and they would go to great lengths to protect themselves from any bad publicity.
Starting point is 00:16:48 There is some suggestion that the Nazis themselves deliberately destroy what evidence there was. For example, it said that pornographic drawings made by Hitler were around and were hawked around for people wanted to sell them or blackmail him, and that these were found and destroyed by the Nazis. Catholic priest Father Bernhard Stemfel was both a friend and advisor to Adolf Hitler. It was alleged that Stemphel was involved in the retrieval of a letter, said to be written by Hitler to Gailey, contents of which would have caused major embarrassment if it had been leaked. And it was certainly the case that publications such as the Munich Post really harped on about these things publicly.
Starting point is 00:17:36 It's fair to say the Nazis had had their fair share of scandals in the press. Hitler and Gailey's relationship had become a real cause of concern for the senior Nazi party officials. but their worries would be short-lived. In September 1931, this relationship comes to a head. There is an ongoing discussion, stroke argument, which is that Geli wants to go and live her life. She's 23 by this point.
Starting point is 00:18:15 She wants to go and live her life. She wants to become a singer. There seemed to be this sort of argument going on about could she have these vocal lessons in Vienna and would Uncle Dolph as she called him, pay for them. We do know that in general terms that it was again about her wish to be independent. She wanted to go to Vienna and to study.
Starting point is 00:18:39 She wanted more freedom to go out. He started shouting and some neighbors heard this row and it was along the lines of something like, you're not going to Vienna and that's the end of it. The next day, members of Hitler's house staff made a tragic discovery. She was found dead on the floor of her. her room with a bullet through her heart from Hitler's own personal pistol. Gerhard Fermetz, a German historian and researcher from Augsburg University,
Starting point is 00:19:09 has come to the Bavarian State Archives in Munich to explain and examine Galey Raubel's official police file. This one is a file on homicides in Bavaria during the period 1929 to 1937. And we find a report on the Raubal case of September 28, 1931. It describes what the police found on the spot. They found Angela Raubal lying on the floor. It also says all the people who were in the flat at the time of the arrival of the police. There were five people in the flat, but only four were asked about what they had actually seen.
Starting point is 00:20:02 The fifth person, Franz Schwartz, member of the Munich City Council, was not asked about his observations. He is not asked and his name doesn't appear a second time. Just the statement in the beginning that he was in the flat when the police arrived. Franz Schwartz was in fact also treasurer of the Nazi party. party and a close friend of Adolf Hitler. Despite being one of the first people to arrive at the scene of Galey's death, Schwarz was never questioned by the police. The detectives had also found several inconsistencies in the accounts given by the house staff. There were
Starting point is 00:20:46 different versions given regarding who found her body and who entered the room first. But they all agreed on one specific thing. Hitler was nowhere near the apartment when it happened. From the evidence and statements gathered by the police, it was surmised that when Hitler had left the apartment after their argument, Gailey had become increasingly distraught. Knowing where her uncle kept his gun, she went to his cabinet and retrieved the Walter pistol from his drawer. She then made her way to her bedroom, locking the door behind her to avoid any interruptions
Starting point is 00:21:22 from the house staff. The police believed that Gaily then loaded the gun. But instead of putting the barrel to her head, she made the decision to turn the gun around and hold it against her chest. She apparently missed her heart with the shot and she punctured her own lung. She died of loss of blood and effectively drowning in her own blood. So she would have died later that same day. Strangely, other than a cursory look at the body by the police doctor, no autopsy was performed.
Starting point is 00:21:57 and the death was ruled a suicide. But even at the time, the speed in which the investigation was wrapped up caused many to become suspicious. And one of the first things about her death that people noted was the unusual way in which Gaylee was supposed to have shot herself. According to the suicide theory, she attempted to shoot herself in the heart and had placed the weapon just above the heart,
Starting point is 00:22:26 above the heart an extremely unlikely way for someone to commit suicide. She missed the heart and suffered a shot to her lung. She subsequently died and agonizing death. The newspapers at the time had also picked up on the story, and Galey's death became national news. Straight away, there are rumors in Germany which are suggesting that there's some sort of unnatural nefarious side to this relationship that it was incestuous, that the two were having an affair, that even that Gehli might have been pregnant with Hitler's child.
Starting point is 00:23:06 Dr. Fritz Gerlich was a Munich-based journalist and newspaper editor who had been investigating the story of Galey's death. He wrote extensively on the subject and made his opinion very clear that Galey had not committed suicide. By extension, Geli had been done away with, had been murdered. she was a witness too many and had been done away with by one of Hitler's accolites. The rumors that Galey's death had been the result of a murder continued. It was even suggested that she was murdered on the orders of high-ranking members of the Nazi party. She was considered unstable because she discussed her private life with quite a few people. There would have come a point when the Nazis feared for their reputation,
Starting point is 00:23:54 But if further details about Hitler's private life had come to light and found their way into the press, it would have been considered a severe blow. In 1931, the Nazis are very much the up-and-coming power in German politics. So on the back of the economic crash, Wall Street crash for 1929, and then by extension the German economic crisis of 1930, The Nazis are reaping the political rewards of that economic crisis. So they're very much the up-and-coming power. If certain information came to life, specifically regarding their sexual practices,
Starting point is 00:24:35 it would have been disastrous for the party. You can imagine the ridicule for Hitler and his party if that had become public knowledge. So she had to die. The theory that Gailey had in fact been murdered seemed to be plausible to many people. But the suspicion didn't just fall on the Nazi party itself. Rumors had also started to spread in the newspapers and on the streets, that one person in particular was directly responsible for her death. There were some speculations at that time already,
Starting point is 00:25:09 that it has not been a suicide, but could also have been a homicide by an unknown person, and the name of Hitler was in the discussion already. because he was the owner of the flat. But according to Hitler, he was nowhere near Gaylee at the time of her death, having already left for a meeting in Nuremberg. There are two official medical statements in the police report. One statement said that Gaylee had been dead for eight hours,
Starting point is 00:25:47 placing Hitler in Nuremberg at the time of her death. But in another country, herdictory statement in the same report, the police also revealed that she had been dead for approximately 24 hours. Had she been dead for 24 hours, then Hitler could have killed her easily, meaning he had no alibi. During his official police interview, Hitler also went on to deny having constant disagreements with his niece, adding that on the night in question, no argument had broken out between the
Starting point is 00:26:20 two at any time. People in the house who heard it, people who were waiting to escort Hitler on the speaking tour, later testified that they had a blazing route as Hitler was leaving, shouting at each other, and off he went. Hitler left to go in his limousine to the station to go and give a speech that evening, which he did, which of course gives him an alibi. But journalist Fritz Gerlich continued with his investigation. publishing an article in which it was alleged that witnesses who had viewed Galey's body
Starting point is 00:26:56 claim that she had suffered injuries other than the gunshot wound to her chest. There was an article in Munich newspaper dating that probably Gili Raubal had not committed suicide. Furthermore, there were witnesses. For example, the woman who washed the body, who noticed bruises. Other witnesses said she had a broken nose and bruises to her face. Backing up Hitler's claim that no violent quarrel with Gaily took place, Dr. Mueller of the Munich Police Department issued a press release. Mueller claimed to have re-examined her body
Starting point is 00:27:41 and that the marks discovered on Gaily were consistent with the fact that her body had been found lying face down. She was lying in this position for about 17, 18 hours, and that explained why her nose was broken. This has not been a result of hitting in the face, for instance, but of her falling down. So this second examination by Dr. Miller stated again that must have been suicide. At least he did not find any hint on a shooting by third person. According to the official report, she got those when she fell to the ground. However, you could argue that the bruises and the broken nose were the result of a fight or physical violence.
Starting point is 00:28:42 Shortly after the release of the police statement, statement, Franz Gertner, the Bavarian Justice Minister, agreed for Galey's body to be released and sent for burial in Vienna outside of German jurisdiction. It was noted, however, that Galey's death seemed to have had a profound effect on Adolf Hitler. When the body was discovered, Hitler was informed and was horrified. Supposedly he went white and was speechless for some time afterwards. So it's clear that Hitler was very, very closely, personally affected.
Starting point is 00:29:19 According to members of his inner circle, he contemplated suicide. Hitler was, by all accounts, was absolutely grief-stricken in the aftermath, genuinely grief-stricken. Geli's death certainly affected him, albeit briefly but deeply affected him as a politician. He was nearing the threshold of power, and he took himself off, went into his private court, brooded on it. He came close, I think, to breaking down entirely. But some have questioned whether his behavior was a result of grief or guilt. I don't think there's any way to kind of discriminate between the two.
Starting point is 00:30:11 I think clearly he was in a lot of pain. Now what caused that pain, I think is anyone's guess. Hitler was a supreme egotist, so it wouldn't really have stopped him doing what he considered his chosen path to political power. But it certainly, more than any other event, I think, in his emotional life hit him hard. It was seen as a weakness of his, and that if he didn't recover himself pretty smartly, that it would be a threat. It didn't take long for Hitler to get back on the campaign trail.
Starting point is 00:30:48 He was soon touring the country, giving speeches and gaining followers. He soon recovered and within a fortnight he was beginning talks and maneuvering and negotiating on the path to power that eventually put him into the chancellery. The events of 1931, which potentially could have derailed the whole Nazi rise to power, did force the Nazis into the process of cleaning up their act, being much more conscious of public image, particularly of Hitler. To that extent, I think the Gellier-Rabal case almost accidentally does cause that process of cleaning up Hitler's public image, which, in its way, helped his rise to power. In 1933, the Nazi party were voted into power, and Adolf Hitler became Germany's new chancellor. But Hitler still had opposition from within the country. The decision was made to say that the sort of potential embarrassment that he had in 1931, over the war. over the suicide of Geli Rabel could not happen again.
Starting point is 00:31:53 So in 1934, to cement his hold on the nation, Hitler decided to purge the country of what he considered to be enemies of the state. And a good opportunity to settle old scores with even older friends, including those who knew too much about Case, Galey Raubel and her relationship with Hitler, was the Knight of the Long Knives Operation Hummingbird in 1934. The Night of the Long Knives,
Starting point is 00:32:19 Knives was Hitler's attempt to rid the country of individuals who were considered a danger to the Nazi regime. Between the 30th of June and the 2nd of July 1934, an estimated 85 people were executed. But it was soon noticed that among those killed or forced to flee were people directly connected to the Galey Raubel case. I need a historic... Some historians discovered that people who knew Hitler early on and reasonably well had a usually short life. The official version was that the SA attempted a putch which Hitler put down with his SS. During the course of this night, however, several people were unexpectedly also killed, who'd in fact had nothing to do with the SA or the putch.
Starting point is 00:33:05 In Putsch. Bernhard Stemphel, the one-time close friend of Hitler, who had supposedly helped retrieve letters written to Gaily, was found dead in a remote forest in Munich, While Fritz Gerlich, the journalist who had been investigating Galey's death, was executed at the Dachau concentration camp, and Otto Strasser, who had claimed that Galey had devolved details to him about her relationship with Hitler, had to flee into exile to escape the same fate. But there were some people also associated with the Galey Raubel case who fared much better. Franz Gertner, who had presided over the case as the Bavarian Justice Minister, was was promoted by Hitler to Justice Minister of the entire Reich.
Starting point is 00:33:52 The police and the Justice Department in Munich were by all means Nazi friendly at the time, which was not least because the Minister of Justice was actually an old friend of Hitler's. Franz Schwaz, the Nazi party member who failed to be interviewed by police at the scene of Galey's death, went on to be given the position of SSW. Ober Gruppenfuer and remained a close member of Hitler's inner circle. I certainly consider this case to have been a cover-up, perhaps even originating from certain people within the police. Back then, seedy figures such as the later chief of the Gestapo Heinrich Mullah, were already in the Munich police force. This case therefore received an intentionally
Starting point is 00:34:43 biased treatment, according to the official theory and version that the Nazi preferred and wanted to spread publicly. The true nature of Hitler's relationship with Gaily will probably never be known. But the circumstances surrounding her death will continue to divide opinion for generations to come. There were enough enemies of Hitler that had it been murder, would have made that stick. And although it was obviously the subject of lots of scams. and gossip, I think if there had been hard evidence that Gilly had been murdered, his enemies would have trumpeted it from the rooftops instead of just whispered it. Geli Rabel's death is investigated as thoroughly as any other death would have been.
Starting point is 00:35:32 And there was no suggestion from that investigation that it was anything other than a suicide. In the conspiracy theory, Hitler shot her, then he left the house, but there's no evidence for that. There's no evidence that he shot her whatsoever. And all likely, she was left in the apartment on her own. She went to her bedroom, she locked the door, and then she shot herself. It looks like this is case closed. You know, gaily raubel killed herself. But after Hitler's own suicide and Germany's defeat in World War II, investigations into crimes that took place under Nazi rule
Starting point is 00:36:10 were re-examined by Germany's new police force. In 1949, the Munich police tried to reconstruct the killing of Dr. Fritz Gerlich, a well-known journalist, who was confronting the Nazis in the 1920s and 30s with his newspaper. The police tried to reconstruct who actually had ordered to kill him and who executed him. In the final report of this examination, there is the speculation. that Dr. Gerlich had collected material on the alleged suicide of Hitler's niece Angela Raubal. The police officer in 1949 suggests that Dr. Gerlich might have known more about Raubal case, and that one of the reasons why he was executed in 1934 was to keep him quiet.
Starting point is 00:37:09 While the argument between those who believe she was murdered and those who believe she was murdered and those who believe she committed suicide continues. Both sides seem to agree on one thing, that regardless of how Gaylee died, one person alone is ultimately responsible for her death. His relationship with his niece, Geli, was unhealthy, shall we say, even if we don't believe the most lurid tales about it, it was, at the very least, possessive,
Starting point is 00:37:42 cruel, exploitative, manipulative. It would have sort of been a perfect storm if you wanted to set up a situation where someone became sort of desperate and despondent. That combination produced a very toxic atmosphere, and that ultimately produces her suicide. That results in her suicide. So he bears a degree of responsibility for her death. It was directly responsible for the conditions that she,
Starting point is 00:38:12 was in for, if you like, driving her into a corner from which they appeared no escape, for making her a prisoner in a golden cage. And to that extent, contributed directly to her death.

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