Forbidden History - Secret Life of Moses

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

Moses is a major figure in religious history, renowned as the deliverer of the Israelites and the bearer of the Ten Commandments. In this episode of the Forbidden History podcast, our team of experts question if there is any scientific truth behind Moses, or if his existence is simply myth… Cast List: Andrew Gough: Writer, presenter and editor of The Heretic Magazine Tony McMahon: Former BBC news producer, author, print journalist and historian  Rabbi Debbie Young-Somers: Community Educator for Reformed Judaism Dominic Selwood: Historian, barrister, bestselling author, novelist and frequent contributor to national newspapers including The Independent, The Spectator and The Daily Telegraph Dr. Bob Bianchi: Art historian Dr. Sheila K. Hoffman: Art Historian, Iconologist and Senior Lecturer at the University of Massachusetts Ahmed Osman: Author & Egyptologist Lynn Picknett: Historian and researcher specialising in exposing historical conspiracies. She is also the co-author of several notable works Graham Phillips: Author & Historical Investigator Dr. Rick Doblin: Founder of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies Dr. Simon Boxall: Oceanographer University of Southampton Carrie Kirkpatrick: Author & Priestess Eric Meyers: Narrator Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Forbidden History Podcast. This program is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It contains mature adult themes. Listener discretion is advised. According to the Bible, Moses is one of the most important prophets in history. But what do we know about the actual man himself? Surprisingly, very little. There seem to be no factual accounts of Moses and little evidence from archaeology or historical records.

to prove the Exodus story is true. Whether Moses is legend or fact, he is a towering figure in all Abrahamic religions. Modern archaeologists, all of them dismiss the stories of Moses as being a fiction. I believe that Moses can, in fact, be part of our scientific history. Academics, archaeologists, and historians debate over when Moses' lived, and if he lived at all, whether the stories of the Ten Commandments, the burning bush, and even the parting of the Red Sea, actually happened.

He performed great acts of magic, which he claimed were miracles, or were they? Is there a scientific explanation behind this story? And the answer is, yes, we can do it very simply. If my historical research is correct, then me. Moses was the most important person who ever lived. Moses is one of the most important figures in the Old Testament, according to the Bible. But who is this mysterious character? Moses was a prophet according to Christianity and Islam. The jury is still out on whether he is a real historical figure or mythological.

I mean, he may have been a legendary figure, he may have been factual, but he's the most important. important prophet in the Old Testament. He writes the Torah, the laws of God. He leads the Israelites out of Egypt, out of bondage, to the promised land. And he is among all the prophets the most revered, the most important. Moses holds a very important role in the three big monotheistic faiths. As the archetype leader certainly forms the majority of the narrative through the five books of Moses, which are obviously core texts for both Jews and Christians, whether that's in the Old Testament or in the Hebrew Bible and Torah. And then he's also considered a very important prophet in Islam too.

So I think a core figure for all the three Abrahamic faiths. The traditional story is that Moses was the son of a Hebrew slave in ancient Egypt. At the time, the Pharaoh feared his growing Hebrew population and ordered all of their newborn boys to be slain So to escape this fate, Moses' mother hid her son in a basket and set it free on the River Nile. Moses is found by no lesser person than Pharaoh's daughter who brings him to the royal palace where he's brought up. Now, not only is that dramatic in terms of the context, but in terms of storywriting and

symbol, that's the most powerful you get because it's a transitional moment. It's liminal. He's moving from one world into the next world through the water. He's being set up as a hero in the making. As Moses enters adulthood, he embarks on a troubling path, torn between his Egyptian upbringing and his Hebrew roots. Moses, as this adopted Egyptian, sees his people being mistreated, and Moses sees an Egyptian overseer beat a Hebrew worker.

And Moses waits for an opportune time, goes up to his people. goes up to the Egyptian and murders him. News of his murder is on everybody's lips, and Pharaoh starts to look for him. Moses escaped to the desert and led a simple life in exile as a shepherd. One day while tending his flock, he encountered a burning bush, and the voice of God, telling him to return to Egypt, confront the Pharaoh, free the Hebrews, and take them to the promised land. To support Moses' mission, God summons ten plagues to terrorize the Pharaoh. After agreeing to Moses's terms, the Pharaoh changed his mind and gave chase. But the Hebrews

trapped on the edge of the Red Sea, Moses used his staff to part the waves, allowing the desperate group to escape. The Egyptian army followed, but is engulfed by the violent waters. This allowed Moses to lead his people to Mount Sinai, where God gave him the Ten Commandments and then took his people to the promised land. Moses is a flawed individual in the Jewish tradition, but also the greatest leader that we've had. And I think Moses's flaws are, for me,

an important part of the narrative because it teaches us that even as flawed people ourselves, we can still make a difference, we can still contribute, and that God can still be in relationship with us, even though we make mistakes. By all accounts, Moses was a virtuous man, a man of his principles. He was dedicated, no matter how difficult or arduous

the task that he was given, he did it. So he's become this sort of inspirational figure who wanted to do things his way, no matter what the established norm. the established norm was at that time. For such a central religious figure, the lack of evidence around him is, well, outstanding. There are no archaeological findings to support the biblical story, and certainly no extra-biblical references in Egyptian inscriptions.

The absence of proof is a huge problem for historians, archaeologists, and academics. There is strangely no evidence that Moses was a historical figure. And I say strangely because the Egyptians were so good at keeping records. And to not have a record there is interesting. We even have records of people whose records were effaced, like Hatshipset when she was stricken from records by her son after he came to power. We know that that happened, but we have nothing on Moses. Like many, many great epic tales, there might be just

a kernel of truth upon whom the character of Moses is based. And I'm not prepared to dismiss him out of hand, although when you study traditions, you understand that history has a chance of being morphed into something larger than life. Now, those who believe it is a authentic story that the Israelites were held captive in Egypt and left in the Exodus point us to different locations and different periods in time, which is why we don't find the evidence we think we should. Did the legendary biblical figure of Moses really exist? Archaeological evidence has yet to unearth any proof of his life or even that of his followers, in Egypt or in the deserts of the Sinai Peninsula.

Yet there are tantalizing clues in the story of something that may be more than mere folk tale. For a start, there is the name Moses itself. The name Moses can etymologically be related to the Egyptian, the ancient Egyptian verb, meaning to be born. And so, in a sense, if you want to take an Egyptian slant, Moses has an Egyptian name, because, quote, he was born out of the water. The Old Testament tells us that Moses was a fourth generation Egyptian. I mean, this is essentially a citizen of ancient Egypt, as were most of the Jewish people that he led out of bondage.

So if we'd met Moses, we'd have met essentially an ancient Egyptian by appearance, possibly even by language, by culture. Although he led the Hebrews out of slavery, Moses's Egyptian link might be stronger than the Bible reveals. Interestingly, his story has a strange echo of the life of Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten, the first monotheist known to history. Author and Egyptologist Ahmed Osman has written several books outlining his belief that Moses was Akhenaten. Obviously, the main thing that everybody can notice of the similarity between the two people

is that they, the first one to claim that God is one for everybody. The first one to say God is only one for all people in religious sense is Moses. In history sense, is Akhenatenaten. The similarity between the religious of Moses and the religion of Akanatum is very obvious. Akanaten reigned from 1352 to 1338 BC and proclaimed that there was only one true God, Aten, the Sun Disc. All others were false. But when Akanaten died, the old religious system revived,

and then obliterated Akanaten's memory and that of his son and heir to T'un Kamun. You could rightly call Akanatenatenaten the heretic Pharaoh because he rejects the official religion, the state religion of ancient Egypt, I mean, which was hugely important to people. I mean, they govern their lives by what they thought the gods wanted. Aachenaten comes along, he throws all that out. He goes to war against Thebes and the temples at Luxor and Memphis against all the priests.

He sends in his soldiers to smash up statues, to hack faces off the temples. I mean, this is an extraordinary short-lived period in Egyptian history. But can this mysterious pharaoh really be the historical Moses? Was Akanaten's religion, the forerunner to the Abrahamic faiths? It's possible that Moses was inspired by Akanaten in some ways and ran with it and changed it, turned it on its head. But we really don't know.

And I think the monotheistic thing is overplayed. The similarities are overplayed. The Israelites are not monotheists until after they leave Israel and form a national covenant. So here, you know, you're putting the horse in front of the wagon or behind the wagon, okay? He's not a monotheist until they get to the promised land. And they don't get to the promised land until after Moses is dead. So trying to connect those dots, just ignore. all of the evidence as we know it.

Even if Akanaten is not the real Moses, some experts believe there is still a link. By researching the Bible and writings of the ancient Jewish historian Josephus, author and historian Graham Phillips agrees that Akanaten is not Moses, but his brother, Tutmosis. Tup Moses was a prince in the court.

Tupmosis was also a leading, general. He was in fact in charge of all the king's chariot forces. And Tupmosis also acted for a while as the Grand Vizier, the Prime Minister, the Chief Minister of Egypt. All of those things, we are told by Josephus and also partly in the Bible, applied to Moses. Moses, we are told, was exiled from Egypt. And exactly the same thing happens to Tuchmosis. He was exile from Egypt. We know this because archaeologists have discovered a tomb prepared for him, but it was never used.

And the only conclusion that people have come to because they can find no records of him dying in office is that he was exiled. Once again, Moses and Tup Moses are living almost identical lives at exactly. the same time. The historical existence of the biblical prophet Moses might be debatable, but as the traditional story goes, after he was exiled in the desert wilderness for decades, a miraculous encounter changed his life. The story goes that on Mount Horam, Moses saw a burning bush, which was in fact God speaking to him, telling him, instructing him,

take the Israelites out of Egypt to the Promise Land. The Burning Bush is what movie makers call an inciting incident. It's that plot point, it's that moment in the story of Moses when he's got to go on his quest. The burning bush is what makes it all happen. This fantastic vision was traditionally seen as a miracle, but some believe there is a radical alternative theory. I think Moses could very well have been using psychedelics.

We don't know for sure, but I think it's entirely possible. Rick Doblin is the founder of the Association for Psychedelic Studies. He believes Moses could have used mind-altering drugs to generate his visions. So the Burning Bush to me represents a not uncommon experience that people have under the influence of psychedelics, where they look at nature and they realize that it's alive, it's got energy in it. And so the course of energy through this plant could be interpreted as fire.

And so my interpretation of that event was that it was more that, you know, Moses saw the inner fire. And that if we could see the energy, we might interpret it as fire. In fact, nature might provide another explanation. In the area where this is said to have occurred, that grows acacia wood.

And if you burn acacia wood or an acacia tree burns and you're close enough to inhale the smoke, you will hallucinate. This is because acacia bark contains a substance called DMT or dimethyltryptamine, which is a powerful hallucinogenic. It's even suggested that Moses was a kind of shaman-type figure who may have known this and set the bushelite in order to have that kind of experience, that communing with the spiritual that only basically a narcotic-driven

high could give him. But is this really an outlandish theory? Artificial methods to achieve spiritual enlightenment have been used by cultures all across the world for thousands of years. I think the psychedelics were seen as powerful tools to help us get out of our sort of ego identification, our sense of self. and that there has been a reason for people to do various things in terms of drumming or fasting, vision quests.

And so I would imagine that psychedelics could be something that was appreciated by Moses and people around that time. That could have been a completely pivotal moment in several great religions, and it might all have been due to burning bark. So there's nothing in the biblical account to suggest that he's eating or inhaling or in a lucid to juries. So I take scripture literally. He's watching his flock. He sees something.

He goes over to investigate and gets the conversation with the Almighty. Aside from talking to God in the burning bush, there are still other miracles Moses is said to have performed, such as parting the Red Sea. It is not surprising that such an unbelievable tale raises debate among scholars. The miraculous crossing of the Red Sea has to be one of the most stunning, incredible events in the Old Testament. It's the fact that Moses is able to lead the Jewish people, the Israelites, out of Egypt, through what seems like an impassable stretch of water. And then, As the Egyptians come chasing after them, God closes the sea in on Pharaoh and his hundreds of chariots drowning them all. But could this really have happened in the Red Sea we know today?

The very name of the body of water Moses crossed may have been mistakenly identified for centuries. I'm not entirely sure where the mistranslation of Red Sea comes from. It's in Hebrew Yamsuf, which is Reed Sea. It may have been that someone wrote Reedsy and then it was missed out, the E got dropped, and actually in Hebrew that happens quite frequently that manuscripts would have been repeatedly written down by hand and little errors will creep in.

I think Red Sea will be pretty hard to get rid of now. It's pretty much embedded in how we tell the story. Regardless of whether Moses crossed the Red Sea or the Reade Sea, Can science prove he was capable of parting the waves? The Bible tells us that Moses led his followers to safety by parting the waters of the Red Sea. But could the fantastical event really have happened in the Red Sea we know today, or another nearby body of water?

Simon Boxall is an oceanographer from Southampton University in England. He evaluates the modern scientific ideas that he evaluates the modern scientific ideas that he explain this mysterious sea crossing. And there are many theories that go with this story. One is that around about the same time, we know that there was a huge explosion, volcanic explosion, eruption on Santorini. And that basically caused a huge tsunami.

And one theory is that it was a tsunami that came with just the right time to allow them to cross. Now, the theory there is flawed. It's flawed for two reasons. One is if you look at models of the tsunami that would have occurred, then the island chain Crete to the south of Santorini would have protected the Egyptian coast. And the biggest tsunami would have got there,

would have been about a meter, a half. And when a tsunami hits, the tide or the water can recede for a short while and then come back in again. That's great. The problem with that is that only happens for about five minutes. And you're not going to get an entire army or popular or population across that sort of causeway in that period. A second theory that's put down is that the Bible talks about strong winds from the east.

The idea that the wind literally blows the sea and creates a pile up somewhere, which means that you then get a sort of gap somewhere else, is flawed. It's flawed because the effect isn't that great. You're not going to suddenly clear a causeway as a result of that set down. I think the reason that the seas parted was because of a sache effect. Now that sounds very technical, but actually it's something that happens around the world every single day. And it's an event hitting the natural frequency of a basin. That also sounds complex.

But we've done it as kids. If we lay back in the bath and rock backwards and forwards at just the right speed, then we can take the water with us. And we can actually, effectively, empty half a ton of water onto the floor very efficiently. You couldn't do that from splashing. And that's because we're hitting the critical frequency. We have a bottle of water, and that bottle of water is your Red Sea.

And actually, I can sort of create disturbances, and I can create waves. It splashes around a bit. Yeah, storms happen. But actually, if I hit the right frequency, if I can just find the frequency of that bottle, and I move it very gently side to side, then effectively I'm like the child in the bath,

emptying the bath out. And suddenly, you've gone from a tide out here, which is maybe to a very, or three feet. To a tide in here, which could be 60 feet. Now that doesn't happen in the Red Sea, but we know the fact that the tides at the top of the Channel of the Red Sea, the Suez Channel,

go from one or two feet. They're outside, inside the channel, at the top of the channel, they go almost 15 feet. That's a huge difference. If you come from a culture that only sees tides along the Mediterranean along the Red Sea coast of if you come one or two feet, you're not prepared for these huge tides, which are over 10 times as big.

And that big four meter tide is more than sufficient to wipe out an army. While nature may have allowed the Hebrews to cross the sea, Simon thinks Moses may possibly have had an important role to play. What Moses might have done, if he was observant, uncanny, was observed that the tides existed, and the tides were high. And that actually he had a narrow window, but in not a narrow window, but in not, he was observed. enough of a window to lead his people to safety. And to actually not only do that, but then inundate the pursuing army with an incoming tide. And so, was Moses a magician? No, but like many magicians, it was clever and applied science.

Yet some speculate that Moses actually was a conjurer with supernatural powers. Which, priestess and magician, Carrie Kirkpatrick, believes Moses's sense. Egyptian upbringing may have given him a grounding in magic. It's very likely that Moses was a magician. In Egyptian noble circles, it was not a big deal to learn about magic. It was part of the culture. It would be part of the everyday education. So it's very likely that all of these miracles that we see that have been attributed to God

were actually spells cast by Moses himself using the training that he had been given in Egypt. The suspicion that Moses may have possessed magical or supernatural abilities was amplified with the discovery of the sixth and seventh books of Moses, a collection of hidden texts allegedly written by the man himself. The sixth and seventh books of Moses are particularly mysterious because they try and explain through magic how the miracles in the story of Exodus happen. These books appear about 200 years ago in Germany and then immigrants take them to the United States where, for whatever reason, they're adopted quite enthusiastically by the African-American

communities, religious communities, and in the Caribbean. And many of the spells, a lot of the magic in those books, are used actually in practical cures back in those days to treat people. We can't really know for sure that Moses wrote the sixth and and the seventh books. However, you can see in the Book of Exodus that the use of magic was expressly forbidden. So you wouldn't say that if it wasn't a problem

or regarded as a problem. It's a bit like prohibition. They wouldn't have brought it in. If alcohol wasn't a problem. Aside from the miracles of Moses, are there more concrete things that history can prove? Such as the true location of Mount Sinai? And could archaeological evidence

show that the spot venerated by pilgrims for centuries isn't the legendary site after all. Mount Sinai has this huge significance, obviously, for Jews, Christians, Muslims, because that's where Moses gets the Ten Commandments. That's where he meets God and God gives him the laws that are going to govern his people, the believers. Moses comes down, of course, finds the Israelites worshipping a golden calf, smashes them angrily, has to go back up the mountain and get.

get them all over again, but it's for that reason that this mountain is so sacred. For hundreds of years, it has been accepted that Jebel Musa in the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt is the legendary Mount Sinai. But is this correct? Interestingly, the Bible doesn't tell us directly where Mount Sinai is. It is just somewhere in the Sinai wilderness, which is a huge expanse east of the Red Sea. The Emperor Constantine decided it was a place now called Jebel Musa, meaning the Mount of Moses, which is in Eastern Egypt within the Sinai wilderness. And he came up with that idea because his mother had a dream that that's where it was,

and a monastery was founded there, but there's no historical or archaeological evidence to support it. Since the mid-19th century, debate has raged between scholars on where this holy site actually is, with over 10 possible locations given. After excavations by the English archaeologist Sir Flinders Petrie in the 1900s, Serabit al-Qadim has emerged as a likely candidate. Cerebitt al-Qadim is the 600-pound gorilla in the story of of Moses that no one is really talking about. I've been there.

It's an incredible place excavated by Petri who found lots of temples of Hothor, the bull god that Moses is known to have banned, but also writing in Semetic language which you still see on the temple walls, proto-Synetic, a language that is associated with the people. with the people of Israel.

Excavations at Serebid al-Qadim also revealed possible animal sacrifices and ritual washing, religious practices not commonly associated with Egyptian worship, but Hebrew ceremonies. In addition, there is evidence for the mining of materials

important to the Jewish people. There's evidence of Jewish worship, a place where there shouldn't be. There's evidence of the creation of the Jewish alphabet here. And thirdly, there's evidence of artisans, of mining of turquoise and copper, the kinds of people who could have constructed the Ten Commandments in tablets. And if that's not enough, there's also tablets shaped like the image we're told the Ten Commandments, were written in. All the scholars argue that Moses would have stopped there on his path of the

exodus to the promised land. But what very few want to acknowledge is that this could very well have been the true Mount Sinai. But author and historian Graham Phillips has another radical idea. He believes the historical Mount Sinai is actually found 150 miles away in Jordan. near the ancient city of Petra. When I got there, I found so many things that tied up with the description of Mount Sinai in the Bible that I was literally, I don't know, flabbergasted, knocked off my feet to how many similarities that were between this place and the biblical description that seemed to have been completely overlooked by previous historians.

The theory that Graham Phillips has put forward, that Mount Sinai is actually in Petra is very viable. And that's because the whole valley around Petra is within the right distance of where the exodus started from in Egypt. His brother, Aaron, is buried there. And on top of the mountain that Graham suggests is Mount Sinai, there's actually architecture, there's temples, There's pillars just like are stated in the Bible.

Clues there include the fact that the valley in which Petra is based is called the Wadi Musa, the valley of Moses, and there is a rock, the Ein Musa, the rock of Moses, where the water is said to have spouted out. And it would make a lot more sense for Petra to be the location as a major trade and commercial hub back in those days than somewhere, some dusty hole at the bottom of the sun. on the High Peninsula. Yet Moses' most important legacy is giving the Ten Commandments to the Jewish people. While the inscribed tablets most likely have not survived to modern times, could their origins

be less miraculous than the famous story tells us? For thousands of years, the biblical figure of Moses has been associated with amazing miracles, with some alleging he might actually have possessed magical powers. Whether miracle or magic, he had one indispensable possession, his staff. Again and again Moses is associated with a miraculous staff. When he first encounters God at the burning bush, he has this staff with him, and God says that he will imbue this staff with miraculous powers. A magician always has a wand or a staff.

It's like a conduit for focusing his will and controlling the energies and making things happen, affecting change. It's a kind of directional tool. Even today, druid's magicians will use a wand or a staff in their practice. Intrigingly, Graham Phillips believes he knows where this mythical relic is kept today. His theory relies on Moses' link to snakes. It's said that Moses' staff was once turned into. to a serpent, and an intriguing snake-themed monument has been discovered at Petra. In the mid-1800s, a cave near this snake monument was excavated by a couple of English

archaeologists, and they found a tomb there. There was nobody any longer in it, but it did have a few items remaining, the most important of which was a staff with Egyptian hieroglyphics on it, an Egyptian staff at the city of Petra in Southern Jordan. What was it doing there? Clearly somebody from Egypt had been buried in this tomb below the snake monument. Now if my theory is all right, then the snake monument is erected in memory of Moses. and this tomb could be the tomb of an historical Moses. So could this discovery really be Moses's legendary staff? For such a possibly important artifact for three of the world's main religions,

its home today is in a quiet corner of England. The staff of Moses today is at the Birmingham Museum in central England. Upon the staff there are hieroglyphics telling us that the staff had belonged to someone called Tutsmosis who held a high position at the Egyptian court around about 1350 BC. Now the historical Moses, according to my research, was a man called Tupmosis who held just such a position at exactly the exactly the time that Moses is said to have been high in the Egyptian court. As such, the staff of Tup Moses could be one and the same as the staff of the biblical Moses. It may be debatable whether the staff in the Birmingham Museum is really that of the biblical Moses,

but the Egyptian influence over this religious figure was strong. Controversially, the Ten Commandments are alleged to be placed. from an earlier Egyptian tradition. The Ten Commandments are prohibitions that the faithful, the moral, the ethical should not indulge it. Don't cover your neighbor's wife, don't commit adultery, don't murder an individual, etc. And the interesting thing about the Ten Commandments is

they resonate with the so-called negative confession chapter 125 of the Book of the Dead of the ancient Egyptians. This was a formula, lines, if you like, that they had to learn to say in the afterlife, when they were in the halls of justice and their souls were being weighed in the balance. And they stood there and they said, I have not committed adultery. I have not born false witness. I have not killed. And it was supposed to get you off all the punishments of the afterlife.

Did Moses draw upon an earlier edict and say, say they were written by the finger of God. Without concrete evidence, the historical and biblical Moses will probably remain elusive forever. But these tantalizing clues might just give us a glimpse of the real man. In my view, Moses may have been a real figure who lived, but I don't know.

And I like the not knowing. And for me, actually, the importance isn't whether or not Moses literally lived. Moses appears to have been an archetype, but if he was an historical person, I know of no better historical inspiration than that of the heretic king who introduced monotheism, Akhenan.

Even when the Egyptians lose a battle, they portray themselves as the victors. So it's very, very hard for me to believe that a story that paints the Egyptians in such a horrible light could have possibly possibly had an Egyptian origin. I think it's inevitable that as such an important figure, he's going to create interest and intrigue,

and we're going to want to try to understand as much as we can because there is so much that's interesting and so much that's mysterious.