Forbidden History - Secrets of the Templar Treasure

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Did the Knights Templar plunder treasure from Jerusalem and conceal it? Several theories suggest possible hiding places, including an uninhabited island in Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Royston Cave in Hertfordshire, England, and beneath Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland, which was featured in the 2006 film The Da Vinci Code starring Tom Hanks. Cast List: Jamie Theakston: Investigative Journalist Andrew Gough: Writer, presenter and editor of The Heretic Magazine  Rev. Lionel Fanthorpe: Author ‘Mysteries & Secrets of Time’ Lynn Picknett: Historian and researcher specialising in exposing historical conspiracies. She is also the co-author of several notable works Clive Prince: Author  Robert Howells: Author  Andrew Sinclair: Author & Historian  Ian Garner: Director, Rosslyn Chapel Trust  Anne McNeil: Guide, Rosslyn Chapel  Dan Blackenship: Owner, Oak Island  Sylvia Beamon: Author & Local Historian Eric Meyers: Narrator NB: This episode was originally researched and broadcast in 2013 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Forbidden History Podcast. This program is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It contains mature adult themes. Listener discretion is advised. Did the Knights Templar discover a great treasure in Jerusalem? Did they bring it back to Europe and become more powerful than the Pope himself? And when the French king ordered their arrest and seizure of their assets, why had it disappeared?

It's one of the great mystery. of all time. There's absolutely no question that the Templars had a huge amount of treasure. The question is, where did it go, who took it? There is a chance that they found the Arch of the Covenant. That's the big one that people talk about. They may have found a menorah. They may have found documents, heretical documents, early Gospels, alternative histories.

I would say there's a very strong probability that much of what the Templars hid has remained hidden. hidden. This is the shape of Roslyn Chapel and in the vaults are buried, the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy of Holies. You can call it the Grail pointer, attach a plum line to it, drop it straight down and does that tell us where the Grail is hidden? To date, I think everybody says that King Touch Tomb is the most famous treasure that was ever found and I think we have something much more valuable in Oak Island. For thousands of years now, Jerusalem has been a city of power, a frenetic melting pot of religions and beliefs that continue to this very day.

When the man they called the Messiah walked its streets, the heart of the city was the temple of Jerusalem, housing the great treasures of Solomon and perhaps even the Ark of the covenant itself. The temple had been sacked twice before and rebuilt. Then in 70 AD, the Roman army, under Emperor Titus, levelled the city, burnt it to the ground, and looted whatever great treasures it could lay its hands on. The arch of Titus in Rome clearly shows the triumphal army proudly carrying sacred Jewish artifacts out of the city, like the menorah, the seven-branched Candelabra. In this episode, journalist Jamie Thiexton goes in search of these lost treasures and unravels the incredible story of where they might have been hidden and why. The temple

priests had long feared a brutal attack on the city, and it's believed that they cleverly hid the treasure in secret stashes underground. This is shown on the Copper Scroll, part of the Dead Sea Scrolls found in Qumran in the 19th. which detailed exactly what the high priests had buried and where. A thousand years later, in 1119, a group of French noblemen arrived in Jerusalem on a secret mission. Today we know them as the Knights Templar, and many believe that they came to the city to find that hidden treasure. What were the Templars doing in Jerusalem? The Knights Templars originally were tasked with protecting pilgrims, but what they actually do when they get there, and it's recorded, is they spend the first, I think, eight years excavating Solomon's Mount and the stables that were built under the temple.

So they spend a lot of time digging. So what you're suggesting, Rob then, was that they were tasked with protecting the pilgrims, but you're suggesting that maybe that's the not exactly what they were doing. They seemed to have had an ulterior motive. Do you think they were looking for this treasure? I think they were more interested in knowledge and information rather than cash and money. Although of course if they're looking for the Ark of the Covenant, which as a military order is something you really want because of its power to defeat an army's enemies, you can see

there's a motivation there but there's no specific evidence that's that way after. One of the things they may have been looking for was the semi-legendary lance of Longinus, the weapon which if you held it would make you conqueror of all your enemies. It was said in its Christianized form to have been the spear which the Centurion used to pierce the side of Christ at the crucifixion. It was something with an enormous intrinsic value, and they dug and hunted and looked for it. They were also, of course, looking for Solomon's wealth,

which was believed to have been hidden under the temple. And there are tales of secret passages leading from below the temple out towards this repository of what was later to become, Templar treasure, but which was originally thought to be Solomon's treasure. Historians believe that it's possible that Templars did go to Jerusalem on a specific mission to actually find this buried treasure. But did they succeed?

What we know is that when they left the Holy Land and came back to Europe, the order was extraordinarily wealthy and powerful. Whatever they'd found in Jerusalem made them as one country. commentator from the time said, more powerful than the Pope, an enviable, but also dangerous position to be in. They went back to Europe and just increased, increased, increased in power, increasing numbers, and became incredibly powerful and incredibly arrogant and incredibly rich. Could it be that the Knights Templars discovered a treasure map? Could it be that simple? And we know The other one existed, it was called the Copper Scroll, as part of the Dead Sea Scrolls,

and it listed all the gold and silver they didn't want to lose by looters, so they hit it in crevices and caves, apparently, around Jerusalem. If that is what they discovered, then that is the best explanation as to how this order came into its wealth. Because they were knights and armoured, they were very good for looking after people's money.

And they were also, they could lend money, and that's what ultimately got them into trouble the King of France Philip owed them a lot of money and was broke and he saw them as an opportunity to seize their wealth. They were basically the biggest institution in medieval Europe after the church itself. They were just everywhere you would find temperate properties. They were just absolutely ubiquitous in the society,

very, very powerful for 200 years. And then they had this sort of sudden and... dramatic downfall. As the Templars grew in power and wealth, so did the opposition against them, including the French king, who was desperate to try and get his hands on whatever treasures they had brought back from Jerusalem.

In the end, King Philip IV of France made a preemptive strike, sending out orders for the arrest of all Templars and the seizure of their treasures and assets. The day would be remembered in infamy Friday the 13th, 1307. You can see them now in all the Templar Commandaries. Philip Label, Philip IV, has given orders that the Templar Commandaries have got to be attacked simultaneously.

See, Philip is no fool. He's no hero, but he's no fool. He knows that if he fails to get the Templars, by thunder they'll get him. They are not meant to mess with. If you were going to strike a blow against the Templars, then you either strike a fatal blow or you prepare to die as soon as they've got up again. Now, what we've got the scene here

is in a way a very strange historical parallel to what happened in the temple at Jerusalem when the Romans attacked. You've got these men of great dignity, as well as great strength, courage and they are determined that whatever happens being attacked so treacherously by Phillips Sanichels they are not going to let him have that treasure and a few of the bravest of the brave will fight the overwhelming attacking force while others escape

with the money that they are not going to allow to fall into Phillips hands. In the end At dawn on Friday the 13th, 1307, hundreds of the king's heavily armed troops stormed into the Paris Temple and other Templar strongholds across France, dead set on arresting large numbers of nights, and most importantly, seizing the treasures that they had stashed away. So just imagine the scene, its first light on Friday the 13th of October in 1307, and the forces Phillips Seneschals and all their men, and they respect the Templars, they will have taken overwhelming numbers of soldiers. And the Templar Commandery, one commandease, one after the other, a dude. From the point of view of the Seneschals men, here is a Templar Commandery,

we're swarming over the walls, we're killing the defenders, we are going to scoop up enormous amounts of treasure, and if there's one thing that our master, Philip Lebel, will thank us for and will reward us accordingly is treasure. According to reports from the time, a huge force of the king's men swarmed into the Paris temple to be met by a small but fierce Templar resistance. The battle for control lasted several hours before the Templars were overcome and arrested, and the French troops could finally reach the vaults. The site in Paris, where the Knights Templar's commandery once stood, is now a metro station.

And when the King's forces stormed the fortress, the vaults were empty. Clearly, they'd been tipped off, and the treasure had been moved somewhere else. The question is, where did it go? Just before the King's Men stormed the Paris Temple, that's when the Grand Templar preceptor of France, Gerard de Villiers, he had just legged it basically and he took with him 50 horses and 18 galley ships

so that's a bit much for just one man so presumably wherever he went and again it's a mystery he took the treasure with him so there must have been something there for the French king to be pretty excited about it right? Yeah I mean there's absolutely no question

that the Templars had a huge amount of treasure of different sorts objects of value, no doubt about that, and there's also no doubt that most of it in the Paris Temple disappeared. The question is, where did it go, who took it? But in fact, as it was the guy in charge of the Paris Temple, this Gerard de Villiers, who was the highest ranking Templar to escape the arrests, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out who took it, but what we don't know is where it went.

large fleet of galleons, based in the port of La Rochelle on the west coast of France. Historians think it's possible that the horses and wagons that would have fled from Paris headed to this port, boarded the ships, and set sail before the King's troops had a chance to intercept them. But where this fleet sailed to is one of the great mysteries of the Templar saga. Some historians believe they crossed the Atlantic to North America, and even Canada, while others think they sailed up the channel to the east coast of Scotland and came ashore near Edinburgh. Historian and author Andrew Sinclair, a descendant of the St. Clair Bloodline, believes he has hard evidence that proves the treasure was taken to Roslyn Chapel,

near Edinburgh, in Scotland. He claims that depictions of the ark and other sacred objects resting in the vaults of the chapel, are shown on a 15th century manuscript called the Kirkwall scroll, which he discovered in a Masonic lodge on the Isle of Orkney. So, Andrew, explain to me what are we looking at here? This is the shape of Roslyn Chapel and in the vaults are buried, the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy of Holies. And that is really quite a statement. We see two priests on a pole carrying the Ark of the Covenant.

Oh, wow, okay, yeah. And we see two other priests worshipping the golden calf. And these are Templar maps of the Seventh Crusade, and they are full of these Jewish symbols from the Old Testament. In the middle, even more remarkable, We have Masonic and Gnostic symbols. We have two cherubim winged guarding the Holy of Holies. And underneath that, we have the straight Masonic black and white and Templar tessellated pavement.

That was also the Templar flag. This is the treasure map. It says there are holy treasures in the vault of Roslyn. It is surrounded with Templar symbols. It's got two Templar Crusader maps on either side. That's it for me. But for me, the key thing is, what we're seeing here, this is evidence of Templar treasure.

Yes, it's evidence of Templar treasure. It's also evidence that the Templars went into the Freemasons. Fascinating. So does Roslyn Chapel in Scotland really hold the key to this treasure? It was built in 14,000. by Sir William Sinclair, whose family had strong connections to the Templar Order. And it said that it was built to house sacred relics which were brought back from the Holy Land. The chapel is famous for its enigmatic stone carvings, and it said that the chapel's floor

plan is modeled on the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem. Is the lost treasure of the Templars buried here under Roslin Chapel? Well, there are stories and theories, but there's not evidence. And so our view at the moment is that no, the treasure isn't buried here. What do you think is buried underneath the chapel? It's very difficult to say we don't have a definitive answer. There are bits of evidence that give us clues. Sir Walter Scott wrote in 1805 about the knights of the Sinclair Knights being buried in the vault,

some 20 barons he said. So Walter Scott was known to be a visitor around this area. It's quite possible that he did see knights buried there. It may be that the Sinclair knights are buried in their full armour. We don't know. On the assumption that there might be knights, there might be ancestors there

and it might effectively be the last resting place, the family are not keen to start digging and investigating. And I think that's absolutely right. If it is a resting place, it's about leaving it for people to rest. Many believe that the stone carvings inside the chapel are its real treasure and its greatest secret. One of the local guides, Anne McNeil, agreed to show Jamie around. Now Jamie, just around here, this is the most, the famous part of Roslyn Chapel, is the apprentice pillar this is what everybody comes to see the famous Roslyn legend this pillar right here with the spiral effect and what about the carvings

here what have we got this of these dragons at the bottom it's meant to be the seven dragons is this our representation of or in honor of the St. Clair's family roots coming from Scandinavia and the Orpney sagas etc so it's depicting a little bit of the family in it The spiral effect, some people, again, they could maybe try and bring in Freemasonry Templar here. It's the spiral staircase, which you can often see sometimes in their charts and the various degrees. They're learning to be a good Freemason or a good person by ascending the staircase. So that's an interpretation.

And some people believe that there is actually something inside the column, is that one? Yes, again, the other famous story, mostly coming from Freemasonry here, they will tell you the chapel was a replica of the original Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, and that was where we got stories of Knights Templar, Treasure, Holy Grail. And the chief architect of Solomon's Temple was a grand name Hiram Abif. Now, he himself, he was murdered by stone masons or fellow craft stone masons, because it's clear. claimed he wouldn't divulge to the three of them secrets of stone masonry. The best part, and they usually whisper this part, they'll say to you, the apprentice pillar here is not. It's actually the master mason's pillar, Hiram Abif.

It's hollow. They think the Holy Grail is hidden in the middle and perhaps we're standing on all the treasure. So how, whoa, hang on. It's a lot. Well, so what you're saying is that there are the stories that this is where the treasure is buried under the, under the, of this pillar? One of the the Templar legend. And the grail is inside the pillar?

That's what can be claimed, yes. Is there any way can we, is it hollow? Do we know? We've had the chapel's been scanned in heat imagery and the pillars are solid stone. So no grail in here? No. Do you think there's a chance that the treasure could be, underneath Roslyn Chapel? Roslyn Chapel is a very mysterious

and interesting place and it's certainly when you study its interior and the carvings that are there it seems to have the hallmark of Templar mystery that they were undoubtedly

closely associated with it they had loyal supporters there in the form of the Sinclair family among others and it seems to me highly probable that they would have felt it was safe to leave some at least of the treasure there. What is buried under Rosalind Chapel is a hotly contested subject. I submit to you there is no mystery. By this point, what is down there is well inventoried. So the fact that we haven't heard of what is down there tells me one or two things. Either it's heretical, so it's so controversial that it

shouldn't and couldn't come to light. Or it's an artifact that shouldn't be in the physical possession of Scotland, such as the menorah. That would have to be returned in a heartbeat. Or if it was something dramatic, like the Ark of the Covenant, well, that could unleash the next Third World War. So there's probably a good reason why whatever is there hasn't been revealed.

So what's underneath us here? A very good question. Above our heads, we have what maybe is something call the keystone, right? It just comes straight to point up there. And we often call it, maybe we have a little bit fun, we can call it the grail pointer. Attach a plum line to it, drop it straight down, and does that tell us where the grail is hidden? We're standing on top of it. But the grail's underneath us now?

We don't actually know that. Right, okay. Do we know what's buried under here? No. We've had various scans, etc. There's an indication that there may be some metal, could it be the knights of the Templar family. But we're not 100% certain. Okay, so Templar knights, possibly buried underneath us? Possibly.

Can't we just dig down underneath the chapel? Sadly not. What we do think is that there are secrets here. We know that in 1546, Mary of Gis, who was married to King James V and was the mother of Mary Queen of Scots, she wrote to William St. Clair and thanked him. It was quite an enigmatic letter. She thanked him for sharing the secrets of Roslyn

and promised not to share them with anybody else. Now, we don't know what those secrets are. We might not know what they are. But I suspect that over the next 500 years, people will still come here to try and answer what were those secrets, and it keeps the intrigue and mystery going. So what does lie in the vaults beneath this enigmatic chapel?

Back in the 1990s, armed with his 15th century treasure map, Andrew Sinclair carried out a ground scan and excavation beneath the floors of Roslin. And although the results were mixed, it did show that there's a much deeper vault under the church than previously thought. We had two nights, and we took a... ground scan from people who discovered oil of it and they seem to show there are vaults underneath, we know that. And they seem to show that the vaults were connected. But there was one side vault I knew of.

And we dug down the side and there were steps going down apparently into the vaults. There were three coffins in there. medieval wooden bowl which I came up later and called the grail well who knows what the grail looked like could have been a wooden platter but there was a side wall and I couldn't go through and later we put down something called an endoscope and we drilled right through the middle and we put down this camera into the vaults but the dirt all fell in and that was the end of the endoscope so I never got through, it won't be done again. And there we are. I'm pretty well certain that some Templar,

treasures and records are down there, and probably the Holy Root. When Rosslyn was featured in the Da Vinci Code movie, it really put this remote little chapel on the tourist map. But unfortunately, for the guides, it now means that tens of thousands of visitors come every year looking for the secret archives of the Priory of Sion and the tomb. of Mary Magdalene. What impact has the Da Vinci Code film had on Roslyn? It opened the chapel up to the wide world. Our visitor numbers, the year 2006, we went from 30,000 visitors a year to 176,000.

That's a dramatic increase. When I was in Jerusalem, I spoke to a lot of people who believed that the Templars did remove treasure from Jerusalem. Do you think that was the case? Well, what I love about this place is that you can listen to theories, you can listen to views. It's very hard to prove them or disprove them. And I think that's one of the lines that's actually hard to prove. It's very hard to know if there was a connection. But there are legends and stories which would keep the debate going.

And I think that's actually the most important bit. As long as you don't know what's under there, you can keep the mystery going. But as soon as you find the vaults and go down there, you're either going to find there's nothing there, or it's just the tombs, as it's supposed to be, it's the burial vaults. There's more, if you like, more of an industry in not opening the vaults, because once you've opened it, you know what's there. There's another theory about where the Templars hid their treasure, and it's on a remote island in Nova Scotia.

According to the story, part of the Templar fleet that left the port of La Rochelle in France secretly peeled off, and instead of going to Scotland, they crossed the Atlantic and ended up at Oak Island on the east coast of Canada. The legend is that they dug a deep pit, over a hundred feet underground, which led to a vast labyrinth of tunnels in which they buried their most precious treasure. It then lay untouched for hundreds of years until some local boys accidentally discovered a huge vertical shaft in 1795. The kids went home, came back with digging equipment, they got down 10 feet and hit this

platform of oak logs. What they were pulling out was soft, loose backfill. But the walls were hard. It was so clear, so obvious that it had been dug. It wasn't a natural blowhole. Well, they went down another 10 feet, and they hit another platform of oak logs, decided this is more than three lads can do. And then one after another, adult expeditions

for the next 200 years have been trying to get to the treasure in the Oak Island Money Pit. And we've been over there a number of times and had tremendously exciting visits. There is undoubtedly something amazing hidden down there. Problem was that the guys who built it, and probably the Templars, had put two flood tunnels in, connecting it to the Atlantic. When the diggers went down shortly after the boys, at the start, this would be now of the 19th century,

they went through layers of corking clay of the kind that you use to waterproof a boat. The Templars were known to be great builders, and some people suspect that they construct this pit with elaborate security measures, including multiple levels of oak logs to have to break through, and direct inlets to the sea, so that when you dug to a certain level, the pit would be flooded by seawater, killing those inside, and making further excavations impossible. One man who had the rights to excavate the money pit was Dan Blankenship, and just like those who went before him, many of whom perished in their attempts, he firmly, believed that there is a huge treasure waiting to be dug up.

Why did you first come here? Good question. Never really thought about it too much. I suppose curiosity was a major factor and get rich quick probably was a major factor. So inquisitiveness, all of those probably. What do you think is in the pit? What value-wise, what they left on the island or concealed, it boggles the mind of the possibilities.

My own personal opinion is it would put King Touch Tomb as a very, very small find in comparison. And to date, I think everybody says that King Touch Tomb is the most famous treasure that was ever found. that was ever found. And I think we have something much more valuable on Oak Island. The Reverend Lionel Thanthorpe

has spent over two decades investigating the Oak Island mystery and believes that Blankenship and all the other excavators might be onto something. What really set the Oak Island mystery a light was the discovery in the shaft of a carved stone, an engraved stone, very curious letters which were finally deciphered as meaning 40 feet below millions of pounds

are buried and once it became known that there was a vast treasure there according to the engraved stone then one expedition after another set out to beat the flood water the legend is that that seven men must die and the last oak tree must fall before the spirit of the island will give up its treasure. And six men are dead, and the oak trees have been long gone. But there's a new twist to the Oak Island mystery. Andrew Goff was contacted by a well-funded professional explorer who claimed that he'd found a tomb of great importance there.

And what over the course of three or four years he reported to me is they found an oak island beneath the island, a tubing system connecting Oak Island to a neighboring island. And in this tubing system, in the water, was the preserved body of King David. His contact told him that he'd managed to get within a few feet of the tomb, and that he'd found some Templar artifacts as well. Most importantly, he said that there was also a great treasure there. The clue to its origin, he told Gough, was one of King David's wives.

There's one very famous wife, and that's Bathsheba. And she, interestingly enough, is the mother of King Solomon. So here you are on an island with relics, including the body of King David, other Templar artifacts, and the mother of Solomon, whose treasure may be hidden there as well. It's a fascinating possibility. Beneath Royston, in Hertfordshire, about a two-hour drive from London, lies a small man-made cavern. Carved into the limestone walls are depictions of Jesus, the crucifixion, and Jerusalem,

which are believed to have been made by the Knights Templar. Historians believe that it was some sort of secret vault, possibly built to protect a sacred treasure. Intriguingly, the cave has an octagonal floor, which mirrors the floor of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem. So did the Templars, as some think, actually hide their treasure not in Scotland or Nova Scotia, but in this secret cave in England?

Local historian Sylvia Beeman agreed to show Jamie around. So how old do we think the cave is? Well, it could be as early as Neolithic, but I think most of the carvings happened in the 12th and 13th century, which my particular theory, I have to say it is a theory, that it was associated with the Knights Templar. The reason being, Bulldog, which is nine miles away, is a Templar created market town. It is recorded that from 1199 until 1254, these Bulldog Templars came to Royston for the purpose of it. of marketing and the market was straddled around the crossroads, a very important cross roads across England. There is also a depiction of what could be Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and controversially,

a small child. Was this one of the heresies that the Knights Templar were accused of? A belief in the bloodline? Do you think that the Templars might have hidden treasure in this cave? I think more than anything, it could have been that the Templars carried jewellery and money up and down the country on a regular basis. And Royston is a very, where it's positioned on the roads. So it could have been that the jewellery and money could have come up,

for example, from Dover, Strewd, London, Royston, and then up to Stanford and York and beyond. And this would have been a very useful place to have kept it hidden so that you could store overnight money and jewels if you were travelling around. If these carvings were made by Knight's Templar, as silver, thinks, then it's possible that this small cave with the octagonal floor was used by them for meetings, rituals, and possibly for the safekeeping of important treasures, maybe even some of the sacred relics from Jerusalem. Whatever the truth, Royston Cave, hidden away beneath the high

street, is a truly fascinating piece of English history. Do you think Lionel that there is still treasure to be found. Roslyn, I think, is a very likely hiding place with the sin players having knowledge of what they've got. And Oak Island, I would say, is the strongest suspect of them all. I think because it looks so much like the handiwork of an organised force of Templars who, as they dug those flood tunnels, were almost rubbing their hands and saying, I do hope that. some of Phillips men come and have a look. I don't believe there are many, if any, elements of the Templar treasure that are missing. I believe someone knows where each of them are.

Sure, some of them may have been melted down, but I think most of them are preserved with what amounts to the Templar's own copper scroll. Someone is looking after these relics somewhere today. Until it's found, under Rossland Chapel or on Oak Island, or in Royston Caves, the mystery of where the Templars really hid their treasure will continue to elude Jamie Thiexton and the many others who try to search for it. It's also possible that the treasure wasn't removed from Jerusalem at all, in which case, it's still somewhere buried beneath the city, just waiting to be discovered. Explored catacombs buried beneath the city.

A crumbling castle perched on a mountain peak. A top secret government bunker. A cursed mansion cloaked in legend. I'm Sasha Auerbach. Join me in Tom Ward every Wednesday and Sunday as we reveal the mysteries and histories behind these abandoned places and ask, where did everyone go?

We'll hear from Sasha, who knows the history the best. In fact, there's a very famous book by a chap named Marcus Redeker called The Many-Head Hydra, and he talks about pirate ships as an experiment in radical democracy. And me, who knows nothing, aeronautical scientists can't quite explain it.

They say, we don't actually know how it gets up there. How it stays up? You're just not good at a science. No, there are explanations? There are explanations. It's just plain physics. Brought to you by Like a Shot,

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