Forbidden History - The Fight for Italy

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

In this episode, we dive into the brutal Battle of Monte Cassino, the crucial fight for Italy that tested the Allies’ determination against tough German defences. We discuss the causes that led to the breach of an important agreement, and to one of the most controversial bombings of the war. Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://surfshark.com/forbiddenhistory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or use code FORBIDDENHISTORY at checkout to get 4 extra months of Surfshark VPN! Go to ⁠nakedwines.co.uk/forbidden⁠ to get a £30 voucher and 6 top-rated wines for just £39.99, with delivery included. Cast List: Rob Deere: Military Historian Adele Garzarella: Geologist Stephen Prince: Military Historian Maurizio Zambardi: Author and Historian Peter Caddick-Adams: Author and Historian Geoffrey Wawro: Military Historian Don Luigi Di Bussolo: Secretary to the Abbot, Abbey of Montecassino Katherine Sharp Landedeck: Author and Historian Robert M. Citino: Senior Historian, The National WW2 Museum James Corum: Military Historian Enrico Canini: Historian Eric Meyers: Narrator Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Forbidden History Podcast. We're an independent podcast, and advertisements help keep us going. Ads are automatically placed and not specifically chosen or endorsed by us, unless read by me the host. Thanks for supporting the show. In 1943, the Allies launch a campaign to liberate Italy from the grip of the occupying Nazi forces. Key to their success will be the capture of the Italian capital, Rome. It's the ancient city, the eternal city, the city of the Caesars, but in World War II, it was one of the three big Axis capitals. Hitler orders Rome to be defended at all costs.

Luckily for the Nazis, some of Italy's toughest terrain lies in the path of the Allies, especially at Monte Cassino. It has been held up as one of those moments in the war that didn't have to happen. On the battlefields around Monte Cassino's famous ancient monastery, military experts are shedding new light on a bitter controversy. This is an incredibly detailed, incredibly accurate view of the ground, which allows you to tell the story in a way that I don't think I've ever been able to before. 80 miles away from Rome is the monastery of Monte Cassino, one of Europe's oldest monasteries.

The magnificent building has long been famous for its beautiful architecture. Inside are fabulous interiors, decorated with mosaics and frescoes. Dating all the way back to the 6th century, the monastery dominates the entire area of the Leary Valley in central Italy. It is a place of peace, prayer, and worship. But during the Second World War, it found itself at the center of a bloody, and brutal conflict. In September 1943, the Allies landed on the beaches of Salerno, Taranto, and Reggio di Calabria as the first steps towards capturing Nazi-occupied mainland Italy. Their mission, to advance north through Italy and capture Rome. If successful, the capture of Italy's

capital city would be hugely significant in gaining an Allied stronghold in Europe, and as the first Axis capital to be liberated, taking Rome would be a crucial propaganda victory for a war-weary people. Politically, it was hugely symbolic, the idea that this would be the first of the Axis capitals that would fall to the Allies. The Allies plan was to reach Rome using Via Casalina. Always known as Highway 6, it was the most direct route to Rome from Salerno and the other Allied beachheads to the south. In addition, Allied troops would land in Anzio, a coastal

city just 30 miles from the capital. Together, Allied forces would then push on to Rome. The Allies had planned to do this in just five weeks, but they had severely underestimated the German resistance they were about to encounter. Their first obstacle was the Bernhardt Line, a German defensive system with the heavily fortified medieval town of San Pietro at its heart. In September 1943, after Hitler had ordered that Rome must be held at all costs, German forces had strongly fortified this strategically located town, just 10 miles southeast of Monte Cassino. The events that took place here would see San Pietro laid to waste.

Maurizio Zambardi is a local historian. His family lived in San Diego San Pietro during those dark days. My grandparents lived with my father and his siblings. They were caught up in the tragedy that took place here. Upon arrival, German officers had ordered that women, children and the elderly be evacuated from the town, while the men were forced to help construct and strengthen German defenses in the area. They carried out sweep operations, people were brought to the town gates, loaded onto trucks and deported to other parts of Italy. The reason San Pietro met its fate was that it was situated in an extremely strategic position.

Rising 650 feet from the valley, the town overlooked the main route to Rome. to Rome. Germans realize that this is a key defensive position. As long as the Germans are lodged there, they can keep the Allies south of Rome. German officials set up their headquarters in the Brunetti Palace, which had panoramic views of the area,

allowing them to spot any allied advance. They set up on the top floor, which is a big terrace. From there, they were able to control the whole valley. Already delayed by a few months, on September 8, 1943, General Mark Clark and his U.S. 5th Army, along with forces from their new ally, Italy, had reached San Pietro and began their mission to break through the line. When the Americans with Italian allies arrive, they're putting in heavy infantry attacks, very, very intensive fighting. The Battle of San Pietro lasted about 10 days, and the Allies arrived.

incurred heavy losses. In the process, the town was completely destroyed. But despite the days of fierce fighting, the Allied troops were about to get a surprise, as civilians began to emerge from the rubble. Among them were Maurizio's family. While the Allies were fighting the Germans, civilians were all hidden there.

They would hear the cannonades, the houses collapsed, residents refused to leave the town they had lived in their whole lives and escaped to nearby caves, hoping to one day be able to return to their homes. My father, who during the Second World War, was 12 to 13 years old, said that they couldn't lie down to sleep because there were too many people. It was cold, it was dirty, there was lice, There was nothing to drink.

The food was scarce. Knowing the town had been liberated, the civilians returned to their village only to find that the battle had raised their homes to the ground. But this fierce and prolonged fighting was just a small example of what the Allies would soon encounter just 10 miles away at Monte Cassino. By December 18, 1943, Allied troops had broken through the Bernhardt line, heartline. Their first obstacle on the way to Rome. Delayed and exhausted, they were forced to push on.

The fighting around Sanpietro is intensive fighting for the Allied forces, but it gives them a sense of slight optimism and faith that they can break through these German defenses as they head towards Rome. So the Allies were confident it wouldn't take too long to win another hard-fought victory when they approached their next obstacle, the Gustav Line. The Gustav Line stretched for 100 miles across central Italy, interweaving its way through the town of Casino and its surrounding rivers and mountains. It completely blocked the Allied advance along the road to Rome.

Its strongest point centered around the rocky hill of Monte Cassino. Rising 1,700 feet from the valley, it overlooked the entire region. of this crucial high point meant the control of the route to Rome. On its summit, the ancient Benedictine monastery. The monastery of Monte Cassino was founded in the sixth century by Saint Benedict of Norsia, known as the founder of Western monasticism. Its commanding height and position gave a huge advantage to whoever occupied it, putting it at the crosshairs of both the Allies and the Germans.

and the Germans. But due to its great historical and cultural significance, the Vatican pleaded with both sides to keep the monastery off limits during the conflict. Don Luigi di Bousslau recounts the delicate negotiations. The fact that Montecasino was located on this line caused a great deal of concern to the monks, Because this meant it was at the center of the conflict. The Vatican played a key role mediating with both the Germans and the Allies. They reached an agreement to exclude the Abbey from all military operations.

In order to preserve the monastery, both sides agreed to respect a neutral. zone, stretching 1,000 feet all around it. By mid-January-1944, Allied troops reached the casino area. They redeployed into a line 20 miles long and began their attempt to break through German defenses. But it soon became clear that their optimism had been misplaced. The casualty count mounted. Little ground was made, and the weeks ticked by.

The German forces appeared to be so well organized that the Allied mission began to feel impossible. Wherever the Allies try and fight, whether it's the French in the mountains, the Americans in the center, the Brits further west, there are German positions ready to push them back. The Allies found themselves at a loss to explain why breaking the Gustav Line was proving such a difficult and deadly ordeal. Geologist Adele Garzarella and military historian Rob Deere have been studying the Italian campaign for over a decade. They've come to investigate the Gustav Line's strongest point, which centered around the hill of Monte Cassino. We're really keen to get a 3D vision of what this ground looks like, and then we can develop where the German positions were and how they choose them, and why it's so hard for the Allies.

to take this position. I hope it could reveal something that nobody see before. For the first time ever, they are utilizing cutting-edge drone technology to create a photogrammetry model, essentially a 3D map of the terrain. The key ridges, hills, and peaks Germany utilized as part of their defense system in this area are well known from historical records of the time. time, but the ability to view the entire battlefield in 3D gives the research team a new perspective not possible from the ground.

The use of the photogametry has really given us the opportunity to see the German positions and then why it was that the Allies are so significantly delayed for what they assumed was going to be a rapid breakthrough. The scale of the advantage held by the Nazi forces starts to become clear. Quite impressive to overlook the whole area and understanding the shape of the ground with the elevation, with the peaks. You can easily understand why this is the strongest point, how do the start line. Occupying higher ground on the battlefield has been an important advantage for centuries. But as Adele and Rob inspect the model more closely, they spot another key factor that enabled the Nazis to successfully halt the Allied advance.

The white outflops are carbon rocks and they're very hard. And they use the rocks to build fortifications and trenches on the highest top. The hard white rock at the top of these positions meant that not only could the German forces gain an elevation advantage over the Allies, but they could also construct an elaborate series of defenses to protect against incoming fire. In contrast, the Allies were forced to operate on lower, softer terrain that was hard to get through and prone to landslides.

The Germans were very smart about Italy. They'd studied it closely and were well prepared and paid attention to the terrain of Italy more than anyone ever before. The mastermind of the German defensive plan was field marshal Albert Kesslering. Kesselring looked at every single ridge, every single river, mapping out the defensive lines from south to north. This allowed the defending forces to create a trap for the Allies, a killing zone that would leave them pinned down for weeks. When you think what they have the allied forces have to face,

to reach the top of the Monte Cassino, when you stay in the plane and look at this big mountain in front of you and you have to go over the mountain and to face first the natural elements and then they have to face the enemy too that's trying to killing you. Wherever the Allies attempted to move in this zone, They were pounded by heavy artillery fire. I've been coming here now for many, many years.

This is the first time looking at this, that I've really got a sense of the terrain. This is a detailed, incredibly accurate view of the ground, which allows you to tell the story in a way that I don't think I've ever been able to before. The model is revealing a new perspective on where the German defenses were and how they operated. But it also demonstrates just how critical the monastery's position was. With panoramic views of the entire battlefield, it was a tempting vantage point. From there, any defending army could have control over the entire area.

So were the Nazis respecting the monastery's neutrality and leaving it out of their defenses? After a month of the Allied offensive at Monte Cassino, the troops on the ground were stumped as to why it was proving so difficult to break through. The commanding officers soon became convinced that Germany had broken the pact to consider the monastery neutral ground and were incorporating it into their defenses. The Allies are increasingly frustrated. They're convinced that Germans are deploying inside the monastery and integrating into their line of defenses. They put themselves in German shoes.

If you were defending this area, would you have a military unit in the Abbey? And most military logic would say, yes, you would. On February 15th, 1944, at 9.45 a.m., in breach of the agreement they had made with the Vatican and Nazi Germany, 142 heavy bombers from the U.S. Air Force arrived overhead at the monastery. This initial attack was extremely destructive. But even so, another 87 medium bombers flew in to finish the job. are applying almost all of the bombing capabilities in the Mediterranean theater on one very small limited target. Wave after wave, with very heavy bombs designed to destroy cities.

Between bombing runs, artillery units pounded the mountain. Over a period of six hours, 1,500 tons of bombs were dropped on the monastery. The result was inevitable. This cultural treasure was totally destroyed. The abbey is swamped and overwhelmed with bombs, but it didn't need to happen. The events that occurred in Monte Cassino in the winter of 1944 still resonate among the monks today. The day of the bombing February 15th is a historical date.

It's a tragic event. which marked the history of this abbey and this area. It meant hitting a symbol of Christianity. The Allied bombing had destroyed 14 centuries of religious history. The event is still considered one of the most controversial bombing raids of the Second World War. Was the monastery's destruction really necessary? Or had the Allies made a huge mistake? We continue the story after the break.

The bombing of the monastery of Monte Cassino in February 1944 was regarded by the Allies as an unfortunate but necessary act. The claim that German troops were actively occupying the monastery gave the allies the excuse they needed to bomb it. The monastery of Monte Cassino would have escaped if the Germans hadn't used it as a part of their Gustav Line defense system. But wartime newsreels didn't always tell the truth. Apart from the abbot and his monks,

there were other people in the monastery on that fateful day, and they weren't German troops. With both sides having agreed that the site was off-limits, scores of civilians, mainly women and children, had desperately sought shelter within its walls and catacombs. For these civilians, the Abbey was a place of safety, They could never have imagined it would be destroyed. German commanders and troops had in fact genuinely avoided operating inside the monastery.

The Germans for once obeying the laws of war, they had chosen to forego and ignore this religious place. The abbot and his monks survived that day. But the Allied bombing killed as many as 250 attacks. civilians, men, women, and children. The very people the Allies were trying to liberate. The monastery that stands today is a reconstruction dating back to the 1960s. There are only a few remnants of the ancient structure that were strong enough to withstand the bombardment.

The crucial fact was that the Nazis actually held a more strategic position than the monastery. Calvary Hill, rising to nearly 2,000 feet, is 250 feet higher. It was Calvary Hill, not the monastery, that was the Nazi's key defensive position repelling the Allied advance. From a heavily defended Calvary Hill, the Germans could strongly defend against and attack the Allies. But perhaps more crucially, its strategically important position along the Gustav Line allowed to provide cover and support to other German defensive positions in the area.

Had the Allied commanders realized the crucial importance of Calvary Hill back in 1944 and the key role it played in the German defenses, perhaps the monastery would have been spared. But instead, the bombed ruins provided the Germans with the perfect opportunity to further reinforce the Gustav Line. The Germans send paratroopers in who hide among the rubble and do the very thing that the Allies were afraid they were doing in the first place. We encouraged them almost to go in, and we created a far more formidable place to attack than it had ever been before. By destroying the historic centuries-old monastery, the Allies had actually created a better defensive position for the Germans. The ruins were now a natural fortress.

for its well-dugged-in defenders. You've got a line of sight from there to it, and it means that everything in between is covered, from 516, the monastery, firing across, and all the German positions in between. With the monastery ruins now in German hands, the Gustav line was now complete. The Allies had inadvertently strengthened the enemy.

With the Gustav Line now seemingly unbreakable, the Allies suffered huge casualty. and were held back by the Germans for a further three months. And to make matters worse, Monte Cassino was not the only place the Allies were being repelled by German forces. Back in January 1944, a second Allied force of 36,000 soldiers had landed on the beaches of Anzio to try to outflank the German defenses at Monte Cassino. The Allies hoped that the Second Front at Anzio would divert German, attention from Monte Cassino and the Gustav Line.

So you're attacking the Germans simultaneously from two fronts, with effectively the hope that the Germans would be psychologically as well as physically unbalanced. The Allies' plan was that troops from both Monte Cassino and Anzio would then link up and liberate Rome. Unopposed by German defenders, the landings at Anzio were a success, and the Allies were able to establish a bridgehead. But what happened next was completely unexpected. Albert Kesselring had a contingency plan in place in the event such a landing occurred. Forty thousand German reinforcements arrived at Anzio.

But the majority of them were not redeployed from Monte Cassino, as the Allies had hoped. Instead, they were forces arriving from northern Italy, Germany, and France. And the fact that the Germans can send 40,000 people to bottle up the Allies at Anzio just shows you how well-organized they are. Soon, the Germans have the Allies badly outnumbered in this sector, and everyone knows what's about to happen. Then, just like Casino, every inch of the beachhead Anzio is under German artillery fire. At the heart of this new battle was the countryside of Apprilla. Lying 10 miles inland from Anzio, it laid directly on the Allies route to Rome.

Enrico Canini is a local historian and expert on the events that unraveled here during the winter of 1944. Allied troops arrived in the area a few days after the landing at Anzio. But soon, so did the Germans, and that's when the trouble started. The very next day, after the Allies bombed the monastery at Monte Cassino, the Germans launched a major counter-attack at Aprelia, pushing the Allies back towards the sea at Anzio. Fierce fighting rage throughout Aprilya and the surrounding area.

During one of these attacks, 800 soldiers from the 45th U.S. Infantry Division sought refuge inside the caves of Aprilya, built by Roman slaves, around 2,000. around 2,000 years ago, they are a complex system of tunnels, some of which are over a mile long. The Americans were surrounded by the Germans. The Germans would often go above the caves during the night. Inside the caves, the US soldiers discovered 70 Italian civilians

who were also seeking refuge. They came here to escape, the fears fighting outside. The US soldiers, along with these Italian civilians, were stuck inside the caves with no means of escape. With no water, no food, in darkness and with so much fear, because the noise from the bombs and artillery being fired on the outside would echo throughout the caves.

In here it was hell. Just as all hopes seemed lost for these soldiers and civilians, salvation came, when German troops, exhausted by Allied resistance, finally retreated from the area. The ferocious German counterattack to try to push the Allies back into the sea at Anzio had failed. But it had been a close-run thing. The Allies, though, were penned in at the Anzio Beachhead and not yet able to break out. break out. To capture Rome, the Allies would still need a breakthrough at Monte Cassino. The five weeks in which the Allies had planned to liberate Rome had grown to eight months. Following a third attempt at breaking through the heavily bombed German defenses at Monte

Casino, the situation there had become a stalemate. But with the beachhead in Anzio now stabilized, Allied commanders could go back to their initial plan to liberate Rome. A massive offensive to finally breach the Gustav Line at Monte Casino would be combined with a renewed push at Anzio. The two Allied forces would then link up and finally capture Rome. The Germans will be bottled up between casino forces coming from the south and the Anzio forces. Because the whole aim of the fourth battle is to destroy the German forces in Italy, not to let them escape on fighting. another day. To finally break through, the Allies assembled an overwhelming force onto the Monte Cassino front

for one last push. So effectively they mass pretty much all their resources at a much higher level in front of Monte Cassino and they looked to do a series of coordinated, simultaneous attacks on the Germans to achieve a breakthrough. On the 11th of May, 1944, the Allies launched their final final final and decisive attack on Monte Cassino, codenamed Operation Diadem. With 17 Allied divisions stretching across a 20-mile front from Casino to the sea, the full-scale assault began with a massive artillery bombardment.

French troops in the mountains, British-Canadian and Indian troops in the valley, and Polish troops hooking around through the mountains around Monte-Casino. The task of attacking the heart of the Gustav Line was assigned to the Polish Second Army Corps. A Polish Corps that is very capable, very well-led corps supplied, equipped by the Western Allies. Having arrived at the front of Casino in January, the Polish troops had gained a reputation for their fierce fighting. Critical to their mission was the capture of the dominating German positions at the Calvary Hill and in the ruins of the monastery. Once these defenses could be taken, the centerpiece of the formidable Gustav Line would finally fall. Following a series of attacks,

by May 18th, the Polish Second Army Corps had accomplished what had seemed impossible. Calvary Hill and Montecasino were captured at last. Following the capture of Montecino and other successful Allied attacks along the Gustav Line. German troops had no option but to retreat to their last line of defense for Rome, the Hitler line. Located just behind the Gustav Line, it was constructed as a fallback position. But the Germans retreating here were rapidly overwhelmed by troops from the Canadian First Division, supported by the Polish Second Army Corps, and the Hitler Line fell after just

one day. After almost a year of fighting, the way was clear for these troops to advance northwards on Rome and link up with other Allied forces advancing from Anzio. On June 5, 1944, Rome became the first of the Axis capital cities to be liberated. This seemingly endless Italian campaign had now been crowned by some sort of victory, some sort of triumph. And that meant a great deal to the Allied soldiers. It meant a great deal to the Allied commanders. This really is the beginning of the end in strategic terms. The very fact of the Liberation of Rome tells us that sooner or later we're going to triumph.

The Liberation of Rome saw huge crowds lining the streets to greet the Allied troops. Finally, the capital citizens could celebrate the demise of fascism in Italy. But Liberty had come at a high price. Hundreds of thousands of lives had been lost, and throughout Italy, countless historic towns, villages, and cultural treasures had been destroyed. The Allies did, in the end, successfully win the battle for Italy, but in the process, they took one of the most controversial and regrettable decisions of the war. Thanks for exploring the past with us today. If you like this episode, please be sure to follow for more. We post new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday.

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