Forbidden History - The Prince George Conspiracy

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

This week we’re revisiting an earlier episode of Forbidden History that you may have missed. In this episode, we examine the life of Prince George, Duke of Kent and delve into the conspiracies surrounding his untimely death. Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://surfshark.com/forbiddenhistory⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or use code FORBIDDENHISTORY at checkout to get 4 extra months of Surfshark VPN! Go to ⁠nakedwines.co.uk/forbidden⁠ to get a £30 voucher and 6 top-rated wines for just £39.99, with delivery included. Cast List: Lynn Picknett: Author & Historian  Guy Walters: Author & Historian James Sherwood: Writer & Royal Correspondent  Dr Caroline Porter: Historian  Christopher Warwick: Royal Biographer & Historian  George Bethune: Caithness Local  John Harris: Author  Eric Meyers: Narrator  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Forbidden History Podcast. We're an independent podcast, and advertisements help keep us going. Ads are automatically placed and not specifically chosen or endorsed by us unless read by me the host. Thanks for supporting the show. Before we begin, this is a journey back into the Forbidden History Archives. If you miss this one the first time around, now's your chance to dive in. A brand new episode will be waiting for you next Tuesday. On the 25th of August, 1942, during the height of the Second World War,

an RAF flying boat destined for Reykjavik in Iceland crashed into the side of a hill in the Scottish Highlands. Among those who lost their lives was the VIP they were transporting. He was Prince George, Duke of Kent, brother of King George the 6th. To this day, the true cause of the crash, remains a mystery, leading many to question whether this was simply a tragic accident or the planned assassination of a member of the royal family. It's more than a possibility, horrible though it is to contemplate, that Kent's plane was actually sabotaged.

Was George simply a wayward prince, best known for his scandalous private life? Or, as some now claim, the ringleader of a plot to over-three Churchill and make peace with Nazi Germany. We have tentatively concluded that there was actually a coup attempt underway on May the 10th, 1941. There's a great deal of evidence that the royal family were actively seeking to suit for peace with Germany and that Prince George was a major player.

During his lifetime, George became one of the best known public figures of the age. age. Yet after his mysterious death in a plane crash in 1942, the details of his life were seemingly erased from history. Some now believe that this is the result of a cover-up, but what were they trying to hide? Could it be to do with the rumors about his illegitimate child, his relationships with men, maybe even his drug addiction? Or was it to do with the more recent theory, linking George to the British intelligence service, Rudolph Hess, and the plot to make peace with Hitler. Just what had Prince George been involved in, and did it play a part in his untimely death?

George was born in 1902 on the Sandringham estate in the English County of Norfolk. At the time of his birth, he was fifth in line to the throne behind his father and three older brothers. His early life was typical for that of a young prince, and there was little to suggest that he would go on to become one of the most controversial royals in the history of the British monarchy. He was the fourth son of George V and Queen Mary. So, responsibilities in his life were never going to be as onerous as those for his brothers. But because George was lower down in the pecking order, he probably escaped a lot of his father's ire. Prince George went to St Peter's Court at Broadstairs and he was a very, very quick student,

very able boy who did extremely well. Later, he was sent off to the Junior Naval College at Osborne on the Isle of Wight. He did show remarkable ability at Naval Affairs when he was sent off when he went to Naval College. He was very good there. When there were telltale signs that all was not going well for George was when he went to the Senior Royal Naval College at Dartmouth. And that is when he went from the top of the academic ladder to the bottom.

I think it was very unfair to put a young boy who was quite sensitive, like Prince George, into Naval College. Huge handicap that he was seasick. So, you know, an sort of austere shipboard upbringing is the last thing you would impose on a quite artistic, sensitive, outgoing, rather lovely young man. But it soon became clear to George that a life at sea was not for him. The strictness, I think, of naval protocol, the way that they were expected to behave, just didn't sit comfortably with Prince George at all. He stood out from the rest of his family in terms that he was much more intellectual, much more sophisticated, much more cultured.

Now, contrast those artistic sensibilities to the rigours of a naval career, and you can actually see the dichotomy that existed there, and the challenge that there was for Prince George to actually stick at something that he really did not want to be a part of and was desperate. to be free of. But it was really his ill health that persuaded King George V that he should leave the Royal Navy. George reveled in his newfound freedom, and where better to exercise it, than the hedonistic night spots of London's roaring 20s. He's a man with privilege and wealth, but no real role in life. But he has got an enormous appetite for some of the more loose and slightly more racy side of life. He discovered the London party scene

through his older brother, Edward, who was very much a fixture on it during the 1920s. And it's hard to imagine a better party circuit the world has ever had. I mean, this is a seriously glamorous world. It opened up a new world to him. He discovered drinking and dancing. He could indulge his passions for music

and in a way that he just hadn't been able to before. Prince George was the kind of man you wanted at a party. You know, because he could play the piano like an old coward or Ivan Avello. He could entertain, he could sing. He was very charismatic. He was very good company. He could talk to anybody. For George, the whole thing was an adventure.

You know, here he was pretty much a matinee idol, a good-looking guy who also happened to be a prince. The world was his oyster. The two princes, I suppose, had a ball, as, and why would they not? It was also the jazz age. So this is interesting because we're getting away from the sort of classical age of, you know, of King George V and Queen Mary, who were certainly not syncopated characters, to these two young princes who liked hot jazz, enjoyed cocktails, enjoyed nightlife,

and they clearly had a ball. George was handsome, eloquent, and charming. He had become the quintessential playboy prince, who quickly gained a reputation for his. womanising. You could pretty much sleep around, provided it was with somebody that wasn't going to be damaging you or your career or your position. There was the actress Lois Sturt and people like Gloria Swanson and Touloula Bankhead,

famous silent movie stars also crossed George's path at that time. He had an enormous passion for all the big names, certainly, that he went to bed with. It was very rarely just a one-off, a mere dalliance, although he had those as well by the bucketload. But he did have genuine feelings for an awful lot of the people he was involved with. And that made him special in those circles. For all of George's countless romances, flings and liaisons, there was a lot of one that stood out from the rest. Another love of George's was Poppy Bearing.

She was a member of the very wealthy Bearing banking family. Somebody found them one day snuggled up together in one another's arms. And it was thought that these two would get married. And to start off with, it seemed as though the king and queen had no objections. And then for whatever reason, it was all off. King George was quick to remind his son that no matter how far down the pecking order, no member of the royal family is completely free to do as they please. Poppy Bearing was a banking heiress, which would have made her no more suitable in King George

the fifth size as a royal bride than a Coleman's daughter. It didn't matter. Royal princes married into royalty, whether it was European or Russian at the time. So Poppy Bearing would have still been looked on as totally unsuitable. George was devastated. He had once again fallen victim to the strict rules of royal protocol. In an attempt to keep his wayward son occupied, the king decided to send George on his first official royal visit. He was to join his eldest brother, Edward, the future king, of Great Britain on a tour of South America. It was hoped that a busy schedule,

packed with royal duties, would keep the brothers out of trouble. But nothing could have been further from the truth. There was a tour that the Duke of Windsor and the Duke of Kent jointly went on to South America. And I believe it was Duke of Windsor's private secretary reported back to the king saying that the tour.

was really about wine and women and horsing around. Whoever came up with the idea for these two princes going off together on an official visit actually got it pretty wrong because these boys were there, they were there to represent the king and country that were there to represent the crown. But in fact, they didn't do it terribly well.

And it was basically two boys off the leash. They would go to nightclubs. They would lark about. They would get incredibly drunk. They were just basically enjoying themselves. There were two young men making the most of being away from the stuffy Windsor Court. His actions on the official tour

had caused a major embarrassment to the royal family. But that was soon overshadowed by his next scandal. Rumors had started to circulate that George had become involved with another flamboyant star of the stage and screen, Noel Coward. Noel Coward and the Duke of Kent met after a performance in the early 1920s and struck up a public friendship, but many people believed in private was a romance. It's not implausible.

I mean, there's a very famous story about Coward and the Duke of Kent cavorting around Mayfell. dressed as women. It was said that George and Coward would often raid the theatre's costume department and take late night walks through London in disguise. On one occasion, however, Coward, along with Prince George, found themselves in trouble with the law. They were arrested on suspicion of prostitution. And it goes without saying both of them got off very quickly, certainly as soon as Prince George's

identity was ascertained. But he, you know, he put himself in incredible danger, basically, doing such things. But in those days, he could get away with it, because nobody in the press was ever going to report it. George had narrowly avoided a public scandal, but his indiscretions had brought him to the attention of the British security services. Many now believed that George was considered a threat to the state, and that his death may have been connected to his many scandals and reckless behavior. A theory that is only compounded by the fact that George also fell victim to a blackmail plot.

There were several instances of the royal family having to hastily cover up potential huge scandals surrounding Prince George. There was a story circulating that's still circulating that Prince George was being blackmailed by a male lover living in Paris and that the prince had given him, I think, monogrammed Tiffany and Cartier's cigarette boxes and various letters which would have been compromising, hence the blackmail, and that the Duke of Windsor, his older brother, was the one who was sent to Paris

to retrieve letters and the gifts. So George actually got himself potentially in an awful lot of scrapes, but the royal family, usually in the person of Edward, covered it up. But still, he refused to change his ways. Now there were even stories that George had fathered an illegitimate child. It was by a young woman called Violet Evans, who was the sister of a friend of George's when he was at the Osborne. Naval Academy. She became part of George's set and she became pregnant and it is widely

believed that George was the father of this child. At the time Violet was engaged to another man who agreed to stand by her as long as she went to Switzerland and had the child and the child was put up for adoption and there was nothing else to be said about it. What we do know is that Viola did have a child, did have a boy, that she christened Michael, and that he was adopted by the Canfields. He had an interesting life. He went back to America with his adopted parents. Violet did go to Switzerland, where she gave birth to a boy.

Arrangements were made for him to be adopted by the wealthy American publishing tycoon, Cass Canfield, who christened him, Michael. In later life, Michael went on to marry Laura Charteris, Laura Charteris, Duchess of Marlborough. This led to a chance encounter with George's older brother, Edward. They were in Paris, lunching with the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, and the Duke was staring intently at Michael Camfield, so much so that Laura said,

is there a problem, sir? And he said, your husband looks exactly like my brother. brother George. George continued to live his life to excess, much to the worry of both his family and the security services. To make matters worse, he was reported to have found a new vice, drugs. Prince George's most dangerous liaison was with Kiki Preston, also known as the girl with the silver syringe.

Kiki Preston had lived in Kenya for a couple of years. when George came out on a private visit, and they began an affair. It was dangerous because Kiki Preston was known for her love of cocaine and morphine. She actually carried a syringe around in her handbag, and just having a conversation with somebody, she would pull it out and inject herself.

She was totally open with it. She sold it as an idea as being a very glamorous thing. And a contemporary... described her that she could stay up until four in the morning, jabbing a syringe into her arm, and then wake up at eight o'clock and appear, you know, in society, looking as beautiful as ever. She's probably the woman who introduced the Duke of Kent to narcotics.

When George returned to England, he developed a full-blown addiction to cocaine and morphine, much to the consternation of his family, particularly his older brother, Edward. He took him to his country, retreat. I suppose you would say that it was like a rehab. They got him off the drugs, but it didn't take long. You know, it was a matter of days rather than weeks, suggesting that Prince George was never an addict. He was just addicted to the love of Kiki Preston. Tragedy seemed to follow George. And even the people involved in his many controversies met untimely ends.

I think it's fair to say there were quite a few casualties from the sort of jazz age, the 20s and 30s. They all lived such fast lives, lives in the fast lane. And so it's not surprising whether the drink and the drugs that in fact they would burn out very quickly and many of them did. Perhaps these unfortunate deaths pushed him to think about changing his ways a little. But by 1934, George, for the most part,

had seemed to put his troubled days behind him. After a short engagement, he married Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark. The wayward prince was finally settling down. I think with Marina, George had very much met his match. She was also cultured, intellectual, loved the arts, very beautiful, very striking. they made a tremendously glamorous couple. When they married in 1934,

there's a distinct mood change because he was made Duke of Kent. There's a seriousness and an understanding of a royal role that now he's married and he went on to have three children. He became a family man. There's no real evidence after the Duke of Kent married Princess Marina that he strayed again. A rewarding job as a factory inspector,

inspector. He had a beautiful wife. He had children. But he was a restless, multifaceted, complex man who always was looking to other ways of developing his unbounded intelligence and many skills. So there was always a sense of a frustration about him. But the years that followed were turbulent ones. By 1936, Britain had seen the death of one King and the abdication of another. There was also the rising threat of Nazi Germany. War was looming, and Britain needed to keep a close eye on political developments in Europe. In a twist of fate, the same security service that once kept such a close eye on George, now

called upon him to serve his country. The prospect of war with Germany for the second time as well. don't forget. It didn't exactly fill the royal family with joy and not surprisingly because they were going to be at war with members of their own family. I mean, after all, let's not forget that the House of Windsor was of course essentially German and so many people like Prince George had really pretty close relatives in Germany. It's believed that British intelligence had asked George to act unofficially as their negotiator with the Nazi party, in the hope of securing peace and avoiding war. And Princess Marina's German relations provided the perfect cover for George to enter and leave Germany

without raising suspicion. And so Prince George is hobnobbing with his relations, who some of whom, you know, during their day jobs, were wearing swastikers round their arm. It was an intelligence mission, if he was. you like. He was able to find out from members of the family, some of whom were members of the Nazi party, about the feeling, testing the water, finding out the thoughts were, what the plans were, and that he was able then to report back. But in 1939, after the invasion of Poland, Britain declared war on Germany.

All hopes of a peaceful resolution were now lost. Prince George returned to active military service, serving first in the intelligence division of the Admiralty before transferring to the RAF. He wanted to be of help to the royal family. He wanted a role that was significant. He really wanted something more. The turning point in a sense was the start of the Second World War.

Undoubtedly, if all George had during the Second World War were the endless flag-waving tours, he would have been desperately frustrated. But the evidence is that that was a cover for other work, other missions, which unfortunately led to his death. There are many people who now think that there is sufficient evidence to suggest that George served as more than just a ceremonial military figure, and was, in fact, involved in espionage activities the highest levels of the British and Nazi governments. But the question is, whose side was he on?

Suspitions about his wartime activities were further compounded when, in 1942, less than two years after joining the Royal Air Force, tragedy struck. As part of his role, wartime role, with the RAF, Prince George was going to visit Iceland to inspect RAF bases. And on that August day, he'd gone up to Inver Gordon to join this Sunderland aircraft that he was going to be travelling in. Weather conditions were good and the two pilots were both very experienced so it seemed as if it

would be a very straightforward flight. George, along with 14 passengers and crew aboard the short Sunderland flying boat, set off from RAF Inver Gordon on the east coast of Scotland and headed for Reykjavik in Iceland. The highly experienced crew had been specially handpicked for the mission. But shortly after takeoff and for reasons unknown, The plane turned inwards towards the Scottish hillside, heading away from their official destination. What happened next would be the subject of controversy for many years to come. Prince George, along with several other men, died in horrific circumstances.

And at some point during this flight, at 650 feet, he crashes into an outcrop called Eagle Rock. And the plane split in half and bodies are flown out of the plane every plane. one. Prince George is probably killed straight away. That's the only mercy we can draw. The explosion from the crash alerted the nearby residents of Caithness, who quickly rallied a search party to investigate the scene. George Bethune is a Caithness local. His father, Will Bethune, was a special constable on duty that day. Because it was such a large area to search, they split into two groups. And the locals came on the crash first. They looked around and then decided to go home and on the way out they

met my father and the other special constable. They said don't bother going, they're all dead. We've had a look at them and they're all dead. But of course the special constables had to go to the site. When my father arrived at the site he said of course it was absolutely a scene of devastation, spread over a huge area and there were croner notes, hundreds and hundreds of cronor notes flying about. He noticed this man with important, my father said, high up insignia, and then he took a closer look and he thought it was the king. Of course, the father had been in the war and he knew exactly that there would be a bracelet and they examined it and of course it said and my father said he'll never forget the day he eyes what was on it. H.R.H. Duke of Kent.

The crash had left many unanswered questions, with no one able to fully explain exactly what had happened on that seemingly routine flight. Why, with its engines at full throttle, did this very experienced pilot, Frank Goyen, bring the plane down to the level of only 700 feet, and then it thundered into the hillside. But there was one person who may have been able to shed light on what caused the plane to career into the side of a hill. The first announcements of the crash said that everybody had been killed on board. This wasn't actually true. Flight Sergeant Andrew Jack was given the job of rear gunner, positioned at the back of the plane.

plane. Miraculously, he had been thrown clear of the wreckage on impact. Andy Jack had been thrown clear, and obviously he was suffering from shock. He left the sight of the crash, and he seemed to be intent on putting as much distance between himself and the crash as possible, and then set out get help. It's almost like he didn't want anything to do with it. Andy Jack was in a side room in a hospital and when his sister went to visit him, she found two men already there, one apparently very high up from the R.E.F. Another very high up, strangely, perhaps from the Admiralty. And they shoot her out and they got him to sign something which she thought must have been the official secrets act. It's more than a possibility.

horrible though it is to contemplate that Kent's plane was actually sabotaged and Andy Jack was silenced about what really happened But if the crash was no accident, as some people claim, then who could have been responsible for it? And what reason would they have had to want Prince George dead? George's brother, when he became the Duke of Windsor, after he had abdicated from being Edward the 8th,

he famously visited Nazi Germany and was even photographed, you know, giving Hitler salute. It's well known that Edward was very sympathetic towards the Nazi party during the 1930s. Probably not as well known is the fact that many of the other minor rules were quite sympathetic too, because they had a lot of German relatives, they were quite proud of their German ancestry and they didn't want to risk going to war with Germany again.

There's a great deal of evidence that the royal family were actively seeking to suit for peace with Germany and that Prince George was a major player. Some people now believe that Prince George and other high-ranking members of the establishment were hoping to secure a peace deal with Nazi Germany and put an end to the Second World War. But there was one person standing in their way.

Who is the biggest obstacle to making peace with the Germans? With making peace with Hitler, it's Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill was hated by the royal family, certainly when he first came to power. He was hated by a huge number of people in government and aristocracy, and he was seen to be a war monger. There's a theory that people like Prince George and others were involved in a plot to oust Churchill. Due to his military experience, Churchill had been appointed Prime Minister of Great Britain in 1940. At the time, there were some who felt that he was excessively pro-war and neglected to explore ways to find a faster and more peaceful end to the conflict. Did George share this view and want Churchill removed?

And if so, how did he intend to do it? One of the obvious ways to ask Winston Churchill would be to mount their own clandestine rebellion. The first we know and have hard evidence, historically speaking, of this royal and aristocratic peace deal behind the scenes, was really Rudolf Hess's dramatic flight from Nazi Germany, in the middle of the war, over to Scotland. Rudolf Hess was an important and influential member of the Nazi party, so highly trusted by Adolf Hitler that he had been made Deputy Thurton. Furer. But in May 1941, in an act that still baffles historians to this day, Hess decided to get in a plane and fly to Scotland. The flight made by Rudolf Hess to Britain in 1941 is one of

the enduring mysteries of the Second World War. And even today, it's astonishing to think that this man who was the deputy Furer who had stood by Hitler's side for decades, decides simply to get in a Messerschmitt-110 and fly. secretly from Germany all the way to Scotland. Some people believe that he had intended to navigate his way to Dungal House, the home of the Duke of Hamilton, where he hoped to take part in talks aimed at removing Winston Churchill and negotiating peace between Britain and Germany.

But all did not go as planned. Hess's plane was wildly off course. He never got to Duke of Hamilton's estate. When Hess was captured after his plane crash, he kept saying, take me to the Duke of Hamilton, and I have a safe passage from the king. And of course, the Duke of Hamilton, when faced with this, said, don't know anything about it, the man's crazy. Hitler said the man's crazy. He stole a plane.

Churchill said the man's crazy. Was Hess crazy? Author of numerous books on Rudolph Hess, John Harris, has been researching the mystery of the flight to Scotland for over 17 years. He believes that Hess was not acting alone, and that the flight had taken place with the full knowledge of not only Adolf Hitler, but members of the British establishment. He took off a quarter to six from Augsburg,

flew on a bearing of 335, which took him over Cologne. He carried on, hit the Dutch coast, turned 92nd. degrees to the right, followed the Frisian Islands, then turned 90 degrees to the left, then went straight up the middle of the North Sea. He flew across Lowland, Scotland at great speed, hit the west coast just south of Ardrosson, turned inland, went to Eaglesham and bailed out. That's the official story of the flight. A Meshesmith 1-110 can only fly for two hours normally on a normal fuel landing. It was a long flight. According to the official story, Hess was in the air for five hours 24 minutes, so we know that he must have landed, else his engines

would have seized somewhere we believe around the Northumbrian coast. If Rudolph Hess did have to land to refuel, what does that tell us about the circumstances surrounding the flight? The official story again was that Hess was on a solo peace mission, he'd gone mad, jumped in a plane and flown to the enemy. So the moment you start introducing landings en route and Lefwaffe connivance and knowledge, it blows a hole in the story that it was a solo peace mission without sanctioned from anybody. Over the years there have been an increasing number of theories put about that Hess actually had some form of backing, backing from Hitler to make peace, but also there were also perhaps

secret conversations through members of perhaps the British royal family, British aristocracy, some senior political figures who are also trying to achieve the same thing. And so therefore, so much of the Hess flight is caught up in this very murky world of the Demi Mond, aristocracy, spies, and people in Britain doing really what. what they shouldn't be doing. It actually does look the more you go into it, that Hess was telling the truth. He had come over up for a prearranged meeting with not only with Hamilton,

but with other aristocrats and even representative of the royal family, specifically George Duke of Kent. Prince George was living very near and in that part of Scotland at the same time. And so therefore there is a theory, a theory that seems quite reasonable that maybe the Duke of Kent was the man that Hess was wanting to come and see, and not in fact the Duke of Hamilton. And if that's the case, then things get very complicated indeed. But is there any evidence to prove that Prince George was intending to meet with Hess? Tellingly, one of the employees at Dungovel, who was there that night, said that the landing strip had been lit up,

obviously waiting for a plane to come in and that at the house there was a very distinguished welcoming party including as she said the Duke and when challenged that in fact the Duke of Hamilton wasn't there that night she said no not the Duke of Hamilton the Duke of Kent

the whereabouts of Prince George cannot be corroborated I've tried desperately to find out where he was that evening the 10th of May or that week week end are not recorded. We have tentatively concluded that there was actually a coup attempt underway on May the 10th, 1941.

A coup attempt but failed. It clearly failed, but a coup attempt nonetheless. Could Prince George have been involved in a plot to overthrow Churchill and make peace with Hitler? And if so, did his attempt cost him his life? There are some people who maintain even to this day that the crash was no accident and in fact was essentially an assassination. Because, and this is the pretty outlandish theory in my opinion, because Churchill knew that they were plotting against him and he wanted to kill Prince George as the ringleader of this potential coup. It was on record that he was on a very important mission. I'd quite like to believe that. that it was important war work and there wasn't any conspiracy theory,

there wasn't anybody sort of, you know, putting bombs on planes or assassinating members of the royal family. I don't think personally that there was a cover-up of any specific issue. But that said, we perhaps will never know. Everything about that story is virtually impossible to research through official channels. You have to piece together what happened, bit by painful bit.

There are major, major questions over what really happened to Prince George. All the files relating to the true events have been misplaced or removed or are still sealed. So we'll never really know what George was up to during late 1930s, early 1940s. Since his death, countless astonishing theories and claims have been made about Prince George. But when it comes to the exact details of George's life and his involvement in wartime activities, opinion remains divided. Will we ever really know the truth about Prince George? Or will his life, in much the same way as his death, remain a mystery?

I think there are some unanswered questions about Prince George's role. in the war and indeed the exact circumstances of his crash. I think that actually on the surface that, no, he wasn't acting against Churchill and I don't think the crash was anything other than a terrible accident. However, I do find it strange that the royal household has not opened its papers on people like Prince George during this period. It raises suspicion and it does make people question as to what may have been going on behind the scenes.

I think if and when those papers are ever really, released, we'll then get the full answers. And until then, there's always going to be room to look at stories like this and wonder whether what we know is what we've been told and not the truth. Thanks for exploring the past with us today. If you like this episode, please be sure to follow for more. We post new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. Don't forget to leave a comment below and feel free to leave us a rating or review. Your feedback helps us reach more listeners like you. And for more from the Like a Shot Network, check out where did everyone go, Histories of the Abandoned, a deep dive into the incredible stories behind

forgotten places, available now on your favorite podcast platforms. Thanks for listening.