Getting Naked: The Podcast - Attention Economy

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

In the first of a two part conversation, Valerie is joined by Drew Sams.  They discuss his family's emotional fertility journey and how it reshaped his understanding of love. Drew also breaks down the concept of the "Attention Economy" and explains his "Art of Attention" framework. 

The 2026 Chevrolet Tracks is the stylish SUV for those on the move. And with the standard Chevy safety assist package, you have the backup to handle every turn with confidence. The 26 tracks, start your build at Chevrolet.ca. So my mind is blown. I just spent the last hour with an amazing man, and I cannot wait for you to get to know him. He has just blown my mind in the best most. Just watch the podcast. You're going to fall in love with them too.

Okay, bye. See you soon. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments.

I swear I do. You are wondering, where's my show? This is so dang delicious. Smells divine. That's a jalapeno popper. Oh my God. It's so good. Yes.

I'm back and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie, what are we reheating today? Welcome to Nal Vals cooking. Guess what we're gonna make right now. We're alive, hi everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's Place. That's where you can see our book group, this podcast. That's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see.

Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing. That's how good it is. So head to Valerie's place.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members, and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time.

Welcome to today's podcast. We have a fun guest for you today because it's fun for me because I'm just meeting them now. And I'm very excited about getting to know them a little bit better. But before we get into today's episode, just a quick reminder to stay tuned for the full reveal. That's a special segment for Valerie's Place members. And if you want to be able to access the full reveal and get early access to the podcast, just head on over to valorsplace.com and you can sign right up. All right.

So today, hi. Hi. It's such a pleasure to meet you. We shook hands. He has a very firm handshake. Drew, thank you for being here. This is, do I call you pastor? Drew is my preference, but you are a pastor. I am a pastor. Okay, so this is an interesting one for me because I grew up in Catholic school. Me too. Did you really? Yeah. What Catholic school did you go to? It's no longer existing, unfortunately, and it's in Delaware, in Claymont, Delaware. It was called Holy Rosary.

And was it middle school, high school, or all the way through? It would have been all of it had we stuck. My older brother did go through all 12 grades. I went through till the third grade. And then we moved to Michigan. So I had Sister Kathleen as my kindergarten teacher. I had Mrs. Budik for my first grade teacher. I don't know how I remember some of this.

Isn't amazing that you remember these names? I do. But I was in love with Sister Kathleen and I thought I was going to become a nun. What was it about her? She was just, she had this beautiful, gorgeous skin, the rosiest cheeks, and she was the kindest person I'd ever met. Like, she kind of, like, glowed. She was just, like, really, like, there was goodness oozed out of her.

So it was more than her skincare routine. Yes, it was her character. Well, this is me at six years old, just my mind. She's so beautiful, you know. And back then, they wore the habits where everything was covered. It was like in the sound of music. It framed the radiance. Yes, her face glowed in that white beautiful, anyway.

So this is interesting for me, because even though I was raised, Catholic, I had communion. I went through confirmation. I then pulled away from religion when I learned more about, oh, you know, just the horrors that went on with religion, watching the way religion is abused in our country right now. But I never lost my spirituality. I believe there is a God, a higher power, a universe. I believe there is a connection between all of us of goodness. And we want to good to each other. So I'm curious how you grew up, how you got where you are today, and how you lead followers in the faith that you have chosen. And in Los Angeles, of all places. Of all places. Yeah. I think LA's given a bad rap. It is. Because there's so many of us here,

and there's so many really good people here. But just like in all around the world, there's a lot of bad people, too. Well, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. I feel like I know you, even though you're just meeting me. So it's a real treat to be here. And, you know, as people are listening in. Yeah. And they're watching too. And watching in.

That's right. Listening and watching in. You know, like us here, everybody has a story. Yeah. And so I appreciate you even asking my story. What's so interesting is I meet people. And when they find out I'm a pastor, I almost have to. It's okay.

I won't hurt you. I have to deconstruct what they in that moment assume about me. That's what I want you to do for me. You know, so it's. Yes. Yes. And I, And I've also looked so hard.

I've gone to the Self-Realization Fellowship. I studied Kabbalah for a little bit. I studied, like, there's such a spiritual path that I know that we're all meant to be on, but there was something suffocating about organized religion. But yet I still look for organized religion because I like the communication and I love the community about it. So tell me how you got involved. Well, I'm a third generation Angelino.

Okay. Wow. Been here my whole life and my family's been in Las Angeles for over 100 years. My grandpa. That's crazy. You don't hear that very often. Rarely, right? So my grandpa. My son is a first generation because he was born in Santa Monica. There you go. Yeah. And, you know,

can start that lineage. You can. We can. So my grandfather, Edward Sam's, graduated high school with Jackie Robinson at John Muir High School. Oh my gosh. You know, so Robinson R and Sam's S are right next to each other in the yearbook. So it's so cool to see that yearbook. And so growing up, you know, I grew up in

Pasadena, my parents split up. That's my first husband grew up in Pasadena. In Pasadena? My son's father. Yeah, most people know. He was from, he was from Amsterdam, Holland. Okay. Came here when he was seven, didn't know any English, and I met him when he was 25. And Pasadena. Most people know Pasadena is the, the Rose Parade or the Rose Bowl. I've been to the Rose Parade.

Gorgeous place to grow up. It is. It's a stunning community. Oh, yeah. That's amazing. Old money. Old money, yes. Very true.

And so my parents split up, actually, when I'm a lot of, I was six years old. Wow. And I, um, that was hard. Very hard. Yeah. Yeah. Very hard.

Siblings? A younger sister, two and a half years to the day. So my half birthday was her birthday. Oh, two and a half years. Yeah. Two and a half. So it was so fun because like half birthdays and birthdays were synced up. Carolyn, just an amazing woman.

And, uh, someone said to me right after the divorce, you're the man of the house now. Oh, no. And I think that was too much to put on me as a six-year-old. Yes. I mean, I understand the pride in that, and I understand the compassion that they probably meant by it. But that's a lot for a little boy's shoulders. Yeah. I didn't realize how much it was at the time, but I really tried to fill those shoes.

I bet you did. To wear that suit that was metaphorically 10 times too large, right? And yet I had an amazing, amazing. in relationship with my mom. My mom is everything. Well, I'm boy moms, you know. Yeah, I know. I know what that feels like.

And so, you know, I learned so much from her, her strength, her creativity, her sense of adventure, her resiliency. And as a young boy, I think it was that formative moment that really wanted me to love people. Because she taught me. care of her? Yes, very much so. Yeah. And she was very protective of her. I mean, I have memories of.

Did you have a relationship with your father? Yeah, but it was one of those like he'd slip in and slip out. And it was always the fun. You know, let's go to the bowling alley. Let's do this and do that. And it was never a bad relationship. It just wasn't a deep relationship. And I have memories of, yeah, trying to protect my mom.

We'd be driving, you know, an old vehicle. I can't remember what vehicle it was. but it was slowly making its way up the road and people were going by and honk in and yelling. And I just, I wanted to jump out of the car at the age of six, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's interesting today, even though I'm a pastor, I really hate religion as odd as that sounds.

It doesn't sound odd. You know? Because religion is not spirituality. Religion is not faith. No, it's dues and don'ts. It's measure. It's rules. We were just talking about that, yeah.

Well, and what's fascinating, one of the reasons why I'm so drawn to Jesus, and I'll rewind in a. bit, but he seemed to be very anti-religious as well. He had more criticism for the religious leaders. He literally was. You read the red letter. Yeah. Yeah. But going back, so I grew up kind of a normal childhood, played a lot of sports and had friends and an amazing, blended family, went to Catholic middle school, Catholic high school. I loved taking the class with the priest or the father. It was a Franciscan school, St. Francis. I loved taking the

class after Mass with the father that drank the wine because he had to finish the wine. It was actual wine. He had to finish the wine in our tradition. It was a little loose. And we'd watch like, you know, a movie afterwards. He'd put on a movie. And that was always, so weird memories that I had. But I think growing up, what I extracted from that was, you know, I want to be a good

person. I want to give more than I take. My mom raised me and would say things like every single person you meet has value. Yes. Every single person you can learn from. Yep. People who others would just brush aside or, you know, overlook. Everybody has dignity.

Everybody has worth. And so I learned that from my mom. They all have an intricate, complicated story just like we do. Yes. But it's different. Different. But they're all, they all mean something. Yes.

Deeply. profoundly. We'll never even get beyond the surface for most people. People that you just pass in a car on the freeway have deep, intricate lives. Yes, yeah, yeah. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments. I swear I do.

You are wondering, where's my show? This is so dang delicious. Smells divine. That's a jalapeno pop. Oh my god. It's so good! Yes, I'm back and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie. What are we reheating today? Welcome to Now Vows cooking.

Guess what we're gonna make right now. We're alive. Hi, everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's Place. That's where you can see our book group, this podcast. That's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again.

I'm dancing. Let's how good it is. So head to Valerie's Place.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members, and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time. Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMDM and Game Sense remind you to play responsibly.

19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to a person. an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario.

I ended up wanting to go to a very well-known school here in Los Angeles, the University of California, Los Angeles, UCLA. Yeah. It's all I ever wanted to do. I didn't get in. Bruins. Didn't get in. So I had to go to my university of second choice, USC.

And there. One of my son's friends went to USC. Really? Yeah, yeah. No, and I loved it. But it was very distracting, let me say, going from an all-boys' Catholic school. Oh my goodness. All boys Catholic school. Yeah, with uniforms, all boys Catholic school to the University of Southern California as a 17 year old. In downtown L.A.

Downtown Los Angeles. I was so distracted for a thousand reasons. Yeah. Yeah. And first time being in a class with girls. I mean, it was, it was a lot. But not the first time you've been around girls. No, no, no. And so in the midst of all of that, I, you know, I'm trying to find who I, who am I. You know, you're differentiating from your your family of origin. I wanted to be, I wanted to give more than I took. Okay. I wanted to be the type of person that was a good friend. Were you hard on yourself? Did you think you weren't doing that? Well, what I found was I was a people pleaser. I have no idea what that's like. No. So, so here's the tough thing is I was really good at being generous. But if I was with a group of people that didn't like that group of people, I would

want to fit in with them and please them. And I would join in and making fun of them. That's kid stuff, though. Kid stuff, right? I mean, you've forgiven yourself. Oh, yeah. Oh, very much so, very much so. But I found myself. But I understand that. Yeah. So then I, then it was a bit of kind of losing who I was, chameleon, just changing colors with, with different groups. And so I, I Ironically, and I say ironically as a pastor, because in the story of my life, this would have been the last place. I thought I would have found deep community and forgiveness and love. It was actually a group of college students who were connected to the church that I'm now the senior pastor. Oh, right.

Who were everything that I didn't think Christians could be. Because frankly, growing up, I thought Christians were all like Ned Flanders from The Simpsons. I've never seen the symptom. Oh, my gosh. I know it's terrible. No, but it's just... The only reason I know about The Simpsons is because they were a little cartoon lag between scenes for the Tracy Olman show. There you go.

That's how old I am. That's good. But there was this character, right? He was just boring. He was uptight. He was, you know, Oakley-Dokely neighbor. There was just something like, you do not want to be one of those people. And so...

So it wasn't like Sister Kathleen where I just looked up to her. No, yeah. It was... But this group of college kids, like, they were fun. They cared about people. They made mistakes. They forgave one another. They could partying, but then they were serving responsible.

They didn't objectify people, you know. People don't quite understand about, and I think this is good that you're talking about it, because what we're shown about Christianity and Catholic is how it's infiltrating politics. And maybe it's not, that's not who I want to be like. I don't want to be those people that hurt other people. But when you're talking about a group of college kids who are having just as much fun as the group that maybe aren't as spiritual. In fraternities, in sororities, on sports teams. That sounds like a place that I would want to be.

That's like saying, I don't like food because what's in the frozen food section isn't healthy for you. Is that the only type of food there is? Not at all, right? That's like saying, oh, I don't like faith or spirituality because of what I see in. politics. I agree. Yeah. There's a lot healthier version. There's stuff that's enriching. There's so much more, and we can explore that. It feels good to be spiritual. It feels good to be connected to God, the higher power. Yeah. Yeah. So in the midst of that journey, ultimately for me, and everybody's got a different journey, I came to a place where Jesus became kind of the

the echo of everything from from Buddhism from Judaism from the best of even agnostic and atheist writers of just human humanists right it felt like it was all what I was most drawn to he was human seemed to be yeah seem to be fully embodied and it was a choice that I made in college of okay I just want to follow you but in a way that continued to say everybody has worth everybody has value everybody I can learn from and so I went on a journey from that moment as a business major at USC to start to volunteer with high school kids. I worked for a summer camp and all of a sudden people started saying to me, you should become a pastor. And I'm like, no, I'm not going to become a pastor. And year after year through

college, people kept on saying, you should become a pastor. What was it that you think about you? I know. And what you do that made people keep saying that. Were you a good orator? Were you a good? No, I couldn't stand being in front of people speaking. So, even that is an interesting kind of typecast of a pastor that they're just the preacher from up front. I was the person, if there was a big house party, that I was in the kitchen having the one-on-one conversation with someone. Helping them through whatever they were going through. So I think it was more of that counselor.

Yep. Pastoral. What a good pastor does. Yes. Yeah. So eventually I kind of relinquished and I ended up saying yes to an opportunity. at the church that I serve as a senior pastor to oversee the high school ministry for a year. And I was the interim high school director for a year.

And then it just, I was like 23. Almost been scary. Very scary. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing group of adults around me. Did that for a year. Then I thought, well, maybe I should go to seminary.

And one thing after another, after another. And I'm like, what is a seminary school? Sounds like cemetery, doesn't it? Well, it just sounds like, because when I, because of the way I was raised, it sounds like going to, a nunnery or going to learn how to be a priest? Like, what is a seminary? So, like in any higher education, whether that's for law. Medical school. Medical school. Seminary is kind of like the higher education. For my, for me, it was a master. Yeah, Masters of Divinities when I got in. With an emphasis in pastoral counseling. That was the lane that I were already basically there

anyway. Yeah. And so people started referencing me as the pastor of crisis. Which sounds odd, but ultimately I was just there and drawn to people when they were at their lowest. So it was after. Or were they drawn to you? Maybe it was a little bit of both. The type of friends that I had in high school was the whole spectrum, heroin addicts to people on the football team. I just, maybe it was how my mom raised me. Like everybody has value, everybody has worse.

So I became, I think, not comfortable, but unafraid when someone was struggling with profound loss and addiction. Because addiction is someone, and I only know it's because I've been around it, addiction is when someone doesn't know how to or just feels the need to severely numb the uncomfortable feelings that they don't want to feel or go through. And it's complicated. It is. We actually have so many things in our society that are told to us as, oh, those are great things, but can actually turn into addictions, whether that's, you know, I'm addicted to social media or I'm addicted to being right. Yeah. Or addicted to being right.

Or addicted to being right. You know, there's a lot of ways that we can numb out that are socially acceptable. Yeah. And it's so easy to just vilify others. Billify the drugs and the alcohol, but yet, you know, not vilify. There's no reason to vilify any of it. No, I know, I know. Yeah, totally. But I think when you begin to realize, and we can get it into the latest work that I'm

doing right now in a moment. But when we... Because I also want to get into how you met your wife and that people's a journey that you took for your children. Yes. So one way, should we go there? Yeah, let's do that. Let's talk about something fun.

Yeah. So in the role that I was in as the interim high school director, my very good friend happened to be the one who overseen the college ministry. He and I, as good friends, had an amazing time, met sisters. And his friends, we ended up married. Both of them? Yes. Married both of them?

Married the sisters. So his friends were now brothers-in-law. However, he started- That's the best. Yeah. But when you hear it from the sister's side of the story, it's a lot more complicated. So the short story is... Oh, now I want to hear their version.

Yeah. Well, so, you know, family stories are really interesting. So they had, the parents had lived in Florida. They formerly lived in Texas. The daughters now lived in L.A. They got it in their mind to convince the parents to move from Florida to Texas. And the daughters would move to Texas and they would be near one another. This was the oldest sister's, you know, idea.

So she talked the younger sister into this. I don't know, I don't know. You married the younger sister. I married the younger sister. How could you tell, right? So the older sister, which is actually the middle of three, said, if we convince our parents to move from Florida on the water to Texas, would you move with me? So then that all started happening. The parents moved to Texas.

The sisters are ready to go. A month before they move, the older of the two sisters meets my friend. And instantly is like, this could be something. Then says the younger sister, I know we're planning on moving to Texas in like a month. But I think this might be something here with Rhett, and I want to explore it. Younger sister freaks out, doesn't know what to do, decides to move anyway, doesn't have a roommate now. So moves back in with parents, moves into the house with the parents, right? Well, she's working for a company in L.A.

Rhett and Heather, my friend, Rhett, and this new person that I now know is Rhett's girlfriend or an amazing couple. Six months go by, and they start saying to me, Drew, you know, you've been single for a bit. you've been making some bad decisions. We've got somebody we want to introduce you to. So they set me up on a blind date with somebody who lived in a different state. And she had no interest because she's like, L.A., I'm not planning on moving back to L.A. so anyway, long story short, that blind date is now... Where'd you have that date?

It was three stages. So we first went to get drinks and listen to music at the Getty Center. The one in Malibu or the one up in here? big one right off the 405 freeway. Then we went to a Mexican restaurant then in Venice. Oh, wow. And I think what it was is they could have bailed if the first chapter of the day didn't go well.

Right. You know, but made it to the second one that went down there. And then we went to another spot for drinks, you know, late at night. I was instantly in love. She not so much. Oh, no. And she discovered my age, there's a bit of an age gap, and she thought he's too young for me. It's not even that much of an age gap.

But when you're young, it feels bigger, right? At any age, it feels big. Right, yeah. So later on that. So she's older than you. She's older. Okay, so I get that. Yeah.

And so she was only going to be in town for a week. And the second of the last day, before she flew back to Texas, I knew. I'm like, how do I? How do I get a second date? So I find out that she's part of this like big group hang. I go over and I'm hanging out with this group people, kind of people I know as well. And I see her in a huddle of friends, I guess.

And as I'm walking up, I hear that they're making plans for tomorrow night. And I stepped into the circle and I said, actually, Erica, I was hoping I could ask you out tomorrow night. And I had no idea that that was a big deal. But there was something about that moment that she said, that I was bold enough to kind of interrupt, you know, a group plan to ask her out, that she was like, okay, maybe he's mature enough.

Well, and, I mean, the obvious interest. I mean, you just solidified it. Yes. Yeah. So we went to a Brazilian restaurant in West L.A. and Culver City, and this summer will be 20 years of marriage. Oh, my God. Congratulations.

So amazing. keeps getting better and better, better, but it's work, you know, and there's chapters to it. But it's good work. Good work. There's all kinds of work. Oh, yes. But the good work on connecting with an intimate partner and making sure they feel heard, making sure you feel heard. Yes.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, 20 years. 20 years. You guys got it down. I'm sure you're still learning stuff about each other. So much, yeah. So we've got two boys.

Yeah, please tell me about these boys. I love this story. Yeah, here's the riddle. So the riddle is they are paternal twins, the same genetic age. They were born five years apart and my wife only delivered one of them. I'm sure everybody has now pressed pause and trying to just, they're going to rewind. Well, my brain, you know that meme where the woman is like in all these like, calculations are happening?

Okay, please explain. So let me just explain. So do you had some fertility issues? So much so that a doctor, a fertility specialist said, if I were you, Drew and Eric, I would give up financially and emotionally and ever having your own biological kids. It's not going to happen. How long into the journey was this? Seven years. Oh, that's so hard.

Yeah. Well, and even as I've explained the story, I've explained it in reverse order. So you heard right from the get-go that I've got two sons. But I lived with the reality for seven years of maybe we're never going to have boys. And so, you know, that's a long time. I can't imagine. And every month getting the next. And every mother's day, how hard that is.

Every father's day, how hard that is. Because you guys really wanted children. And then, and then, you know. And did you start off right away as soon as you got married? No, not right away. But what we had no idea was that our plans to let's start trying and then nine months will have our first. That's the assumption. Stretched and stretched.

Because, you know, people didn't talk about that much. And people around us would say, oh my gosh, we weren't even trying. We got pregnant. gosh, you know, so there was all these people around us who didn't want to have kids who seemed to be getting pregnant. And we so badly wanted to have kids. And how this all worked out is probably one of the greatest acts of generosity that my wife and I likely will ever receive in our life. I don't know that you say that and not necessarily call it a miracle. Yeah. An act of generosity just sounds so much more deliberate. I love that. Well, and here's how generous it was that.

And I would also say there's- Miracles are around us all the time, but I love that it was just so. So as wild as this sounds, a couple, Sean and Rachel Amici, reached out to us. We've been friends with them for many years.

They'd moved away to a recent town. We hadn't seen them in a while, and they invited us over for dinner. And we thought, well, that's odd. We haven't seen them in a while, but yeah, sure, we'll go. And over spaghetti and meatball dinner,

while there are three kids that are running around the house after, you know, we've wrapped up. And now it's just the two couples. couples. They shared with us, Drew and Erica, I know this might sound really strange, but for a year, we feel like God has put it on our heart to help you have a child. And we've been talking about this. We've been praying about this for a year and we can't get it out of our mind. And we heard through the grapevine that you're able to carry, but you're not able to carry, but you're able to make

a fertilized embryo. We've had three healthy kids and healthy. healthy pregnancies. I know this sounds so crazy, but we're offering to be a gestational surrogate to you. And my wife starts crying. And then I ask a question, what's a gestational surrogate? Because I didn't know what even that means, right? And Rachel is so funny. She's like, it's just a long-term babysitter. It's like, you know, the oven for a bun, you know, it's and I'm trying to, she's right. So. She makes being pregnant since so easy. I know, right? So wild, wild, wild, sorry. that ultimately, so medically, it was an IVF and in vitro fertilization.

However, with my contribution, my wife's contribution, there was multiple. So your egg and your sperm. Yeah. So 100% are a biological child. Okay. But there was multiple fertilized embryo. So we made the decision. Everybody makes different decisions.

We made the decision to store leftover fertilized embryo. Right. That's how the rest of the story will play out in a moment. but ultimately our friends, and this is a long process of talking with them, talking to people we trusted and family and friends, ultimately making that decision. It's a big decision. It's a big decision. You don't make that decision before dessert. You know, it was like months, you know, and then all the things with that.

And ultimately, what's so wild is our oldest, Judah, who's 14 years old, was born on April 15th at 4.15 a.m. And if anyone knows what 415 is, it's tax day. And my wife was a corporate. tax account and everything was due on 415, which was so wild, right? So that was our first. And we thought, you know, that was it. And always wondered, like, what are we going to do? And this is my surrogate. Wow. Absolutely. The most generous. I mean, if I was to write a story of my life, like this is the highlight, right? A couple of years went by and my wife said, you know, I wonder if we should go to a different doctor to see if there's, you know, a different diagnosis.

and long story short, we went to a different doctor, and very quickly he was baffled at why my wife hadn't had a particular sort of test. And he's like, this test is always run. And I know the colleague that you had gone to is somebody, an associate of mine that works in a different office, we always do this test. And so we ended up doing that test and found the source of her infertility. Oh.

Five-minute minor corrective surgery. Stop. And the doctor says, you can get pregnant now. Whole different era we've now entered into. Pulled one fertilized embryo out. Go for IVF. She gets pregnant for the first time. Oh, my God.

Absolute allation. That feeling. How could, what did you go through? I can't even imagine the joy. Joy, joy, joy, joy, until the miscarriage. Oh. Eight weeks later. But she can get pregnant.

Yeah. Pull out the next one. I don't know many people who don't have a miscarriage the first time they could be. I did. And now I've come to discover how frequent that is. People don't talk about this. You know, and maybe we really should because even though I had my child 34 years ago, I got pregnant two years before that and it didn't last more than 13 weeks.

And the private pain that everybody has that we don't know about, all the people that you mentioned earlier, they're going by us on the freeway that we're working with, the private pain. There's so much, you know. And so then we pulled out of the other fertilized embryo, and it stuck. And that is our eight-year-old Barrett. Oh, my God. So Judah and Barrett, our lion or bear, five years apart, same genetic age, completely different personalities. Same genetic age. Same genetic age. Isn't that wild? I know. Because they were both in the same batch. The same batch. They were both became fertile or the egg became fertile the same day. Yes. Wow.

Which is so wild. So they are an absolute gift. And, Do they know their story? They do. Okay. Yeah. Good. And the older one, he kind of jokes around with the younger one, you know. So you were in the freezer, you know.

They have a good sense of humor. Well, the problem is I started that joke and I shouldn't have done that. And so the older one, I'm like, just be patiently be patient. It was next to the, you know, the popsicles for too long. We have a lot of fun. They are. That's the only way to do it. I know.

Yeah, they are hilarious. And it just, it stretches you, you know, having kids. Yes. The amount of love that your heart can hold is, I didn't know. I didn't know it could, like, I didn't know I could be that in love. And one of the things that I found, and I do so much counseling for people that I didn't realize until I had kids is that I began to discover my wife an aspect of her personality. that I had never met before. And on one hand, I'm like negotiating these emotions of, you know, a brand newborn life is different.

We're not going to the movies. It's a different rhythm, right? It changes. It changes the mechanics of what you. It changes everything, right? But when I began to realize, and somebody else told me this perspective and it changed everything, that I'm now discovering my wife as a mom, meeting her for the first time, discovering myself as a dad. It changes me more.

everything. And now the person that you loved so much becomes even more multidimensional, more to love, more to appreciate, more to be grateful for. So then the older brother, I got to experience him not just as a son, but now as a brother. And now I get to see them as cousins to others. You know, it's the sweetest. It's so special. It really is. It really is. I love the way you put that, that you're, you see that there's more. more to love about your wife. And I'm sure she feels the same way about you. I know that I looked differently at my husband,

watching him be a father. I forgave him a lot more because I saw how much love was in his heart for his son. And what's wild is, for some, the instinct is to not share your loved one with others because you think you'll get less of them. Oh, yeah, that's true. Ironically, you get more. So if you can cherish the extended family and what that brings out of your friend, your roommate, your spouse, you know, when you get to experience a friend with another friend, a whole aspect of their personality. It's a wonderful way to look at it.

So I find that some people, they need that perspective because we think we'll get more of someone if we just have them all to themselves, but then it becomes, no, no, no, you get more of someone when you share. Because you see their heart expand for other people. And it's not just a relationship you have with them, but seeing them with other people. Yes, absolutely. Okay, so we've been through your virtual. That's a remarkable story. You all should write a book or a movie or something.

That's really good. This is a quote that you love, and I want to talk about it. It's a quote from the professor of philosophy at USC, Dallas Willard. The first act of love is the giving of attention. and you kind of touched on that. I mean, for some reason I get the chills when you say that quote because I've been so captivated by this quote for the last six months. It's absolutely beautiful.

And if you want to be a part of this discussion that we're going to have about this gorgeous quote, you're going to have to come over and watch us on the full reveal. So if you do want to be a part of the full reveal, just go on over to Valer's Place.com and sign up, and I want you to know that. that for just $2 a month, you will get to hear this full reveal and all of the other episodes of the entire podcast you get early access to. Okay, so head on over there right now,

and we're going to get started with the full reveal. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments. I swear I do. You are wondering, where's my show?

This is so dang delicious. Smells divine. That's a jalapeno popper. Oh my god. It's so good! Yes, I'm back and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie, what are we reheating today? Welcome to Nal Vals cooking.

Guess what we're gonna make right now. We're alive. Hi, everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's place. That's where you can see our book group, this podcast. That's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes.

I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing. That's how good it is. So head to Valerie's Place.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members, and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair.

Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.cair.ca.