Getting Naked: The Podcast - Gourmet Girl Talk

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

Ever wonder how a food critic eats-and thinks-about food? Valerie talks to her good friend and go-to source for food and how it brings us all together, renowned LA Times restaurant critic (and 2025 James Beard Award finalist for criticism) Jenn Harris.

If you're a part of Valerie's Place, you know that I have three cooking shows. You know that I love food. You know that I love to cook for you. You know that I love to eat. You know, you're going to know if you live in Los Angeles, you will know my friend. The podcast is brought to you by Valerie's Place, your digital home for everything, me. Whether it's the full library of Valerie's Home Cooking, my new cooking show, now Val's cooking, or in my book club, and now we're reading.

Valerie's Place has something for everyone. Subscriptions start at $2 a month. Add to that, you get early access to this podcast with each episode's full reveal. Join today at Valerie's Place.com. She is the restaurant critic, editor? Restaurant critic. Restaurant critic. You are one of the restaurant critics for the Los Angeles Times.

She's been my friend for a very long time. We went to Paris for her 40th birthday and had a magical time. I don't remember being the... that happy in a long time and watching you just like, oh, for your birthday. It was fabulous. Anyway, I want everyone to please welcome. She is a finalist. This was like, she was the finalist for the 25 James Beard Award for Criticism and holds a bachelor's degree in literary journalism for UC Irvine and a master's in journalism from USC. If you need to know where to eat, what to eat in Los Angeles or just want to talk about food cooking, how this woman is an amazing chef as well.

How food brings us all together. Jen is your source. She is my source. And one of my great good friends, which is one of the perks of having a podcast. I can invite some of the most interesting people I know. And one of the most interesting people I know is Jen Harris. Welcome. Jen, I like that way for her.

Thank you. What an intro about it. Well, look at what she walked in with. So this woman knows that I love one of my last birthday cakes she made for me, and it was an apple for a birthday cake. And it was amazing. Jen is going to describe this box of lusciousness. that she brought for me today. So these are the apple fritters from Mr. Goods donuts in Pasadena.

It's at the corner of Allen and Colorado. What I love about these donuts is that they're the perfect mix of like cakey and airy. So they're super light. But and with lot, it's like studded with lots of apples. Yes. Lots of cinnamon. It's not too sweet. And also, but it still gets the, you know, the icing gets in all the nux and crannies. It still hardens like a good apple fritter icing should. But it's all these textures. together that make it what I think is one of the best apple fritters in the city. I happen to agree with you. It's nice and squishy in the middle and there's a crunchy outside, you know, corners or it's

round, so, you know, the outside is nice and crunchy. It is absolutely delicious. You did an entire story on opera fritter. Inspired by you, actually. Yes, and inspired by you. Because every Sunday, I gift myself an apple fritter with my coffee and my L.A. Times Crossword puzzle. That is my morning.

there's a couple cats on my lap, and I'm doing the crossroad puzzle, and I'm eating an apple fritter. And I think we do need to indulge and give ourselves a little treat once a week, at least. Yes, and that's what I was writing about. I think it was around the first of the year last year, and how everyone makes all these New Year's resolutions, and it's usually about restricting yourself. You know, I'm going to lose weight. I'm going to do this. And I was like, no, I want to do what Val does. And I want to commit to doing something indulgent and, like, really joyful and just for myself all year. So that's where that came from.

And coming from you who, first of all, I mean, we have talked about this a little bit. It's like, Jen, how are you doing this? Especially, I watched this woman spent months and months and months and months putting together the 101 best restaurants in Los Angeles. And you were at a restaurant, how many days a week? Oh, every day a week. Every day a week. And how many times a day?

Oh, multiple. So when Bill Addison, who's also a restaurant critic, yes, the other restaurant critic, when here I are pretty. Great guy. Yes, he's wonderful. When we were putting the list together, we are both at a restaurant. We probably have four or five meals a day every night of the week for those like three months leading up to the list. It's wild. I think at a certain point you said, I don't ever want to eat again.

How do you do that? Because you are such a good restaurant critic. You are such a good writer. I can taste the food. And just if you guys just want to see what this woman does just a little bit, if you can't get the L.A. Times, you can get on Instagram and go to Jen Harris. Jen underscore Harris. Underscore, yes. Yes.

And it's Jen with two ends. And you can see the food that she eats. You take great pictures. I know that our girlfriend Joe takes like unbelievable. She takes the best. Whatever she's with us, she'll have make, she's the one that takes the pictures. But I love the, what did I, the best thing I ate all week. You know, I love that scrolling through the food that you eat all week.

But so if you can't read the LA Times, which you can, because you can get it online. But you can also follow Jen on Instagram. Please do because it's a great. follow. So how do you do that and how do you not get sick of food? You know, I'm so lucky. I feel so privileged and lucky to get to do what I do every day. And I still, there's so much magic in going to a restaurant. I felt it ever since I was a little kid, just being like, wow, like I can't believe you get to be in this space and order whatever you want. And it's like you're going into someone else's home almost and they're serving you food. You're breaking bread

with them. It's, it really always feels special. And that has never gone away. So even when I'm in the middle of reporting this list and it's a Sunday and I have three dinners and you know what I've somehow I mean I'm not as you know hungry as I am at the first restaurant but I but when I walk through the doors of that third restaurant I still feel that excitement and magic and I still feel really lucky to like go out to eat and do this and try something new so I don't know where that comes from but it's never gone away and I'm I'm so grateful that it hasn't you have what we like to call gratitude in your life you have immense gratitude this is why you're one of my friends So who were your influences?

I mean, I know a little bit, I've met your parents, I know a little bit about, I know about your grandmas. Do you want to talk a little bit about your background and what got you to where you are today? Sure. I think my grandmas both had a lot to do with it. Now tell us about your grandmas and how totally different they are. But sort of the same because they're both amazing cooks. Yes, yes. So my grandma, my grandma Phyllis, who actually just passed away last year.

I know. She was one of my favorite people in the world. She was my dad's mom. Jewish, always in the kitchen, a lover of food. Whenever I'd go visit her, she would, you know, if I wasn't hungry, obviously, she's still trying to feed you. You know, but when I got older, it was like, oh, it's five o'clock. Like, let's put out the wine and cheese, you know, that's just how she rolled, which was great. But growing up, she was always on the kitchen and cooking, and I always wanted to learn from her.

And she was such a fabulous cook. She didn't really use recipes. It was kind of just how, you know, throw things in the pot. A little bit. Yeah, a lot of intuition, a lot of love, and it just worked out. So, and so I, you know, I have an appreciation for cooking and food from her, obviously. And then my mom's mom, my grandma Tina, who is now 92, this little old Chinese lady. She's amazing.

So, very discerning palate, very judgmental and the best, I say that with love grams. But no, and she was always wanting to go, you know, she was a great cook. too, but she really loved going out to eat, especially with her friends. And so she would take us out to eat all over the San Gabriel Valley to get all kinds of food. And then as I got older and started to do this job, she'd go out with her friends still. And they'd bring me, they still do this. They bring me takeout menus with the items they liked circled or a red X of the things they didn't like. So it was like a little review that she did that she'd give me. So, you know, coming from two grandmas like that, I feel like it was inevitable that I was going to do what I do. But I,

I think I really got my appreciation for good food and restaurants from them. So you've always appreciated good food, but have you always wanted to be a writer? You know, yes, I think when I was five, I apparently cut out, my parents are big readers, and we always had newspapers and magazines around. And I guess when I was five, I like cut out different things and pieced them together and called it Jen's Mag. So I created my own magazine out of other people's work when I was five. You were aggregating back then. Yes, I was.

I was. You know, God knows what would have happened if I had a website. But before then. But anyway, so no, I was doing that. And then, yeah, I was always writing, always writing in a journal. I started entering myself into writing contest in like the second grade. Yeah, I just like, I don't know, I loved it. I loved it as a way of expressing myself. Because I don't know, I feel like back then, it wasn't so easy for me to express my feelings verbally. So it was easier for me to write them down. It felt more comfortable and private, you know. So I think that's, that's, that's, how I'm I got into it and I just stuck with it and yeah, I love it. So much so that you went to college and got all those that big important degrees that go along with it. I did get some degrees, yes. Pretty important. Okay. So your influences, obviously your grandmothers and you lived in the San Gabriel Valley. This is what I find amazing about you.

Like you will drive anywhere for a great meal. True. And you like, yes, you will. And I'm more the kind of person like, if it's not my two mile radius of my home, I'm like, no, thank you. Well, most people are like, you know, who has the time? Yeah. You know, I get it. But no, there is no length that I won't go to for a good meal.

Where's the furthest you've driven in Los Angeles to go to try a restaurant? And was it worth it? I was going to say, I will drive out. You know, I just drove to Carlsbad two weekends ago for dinner and came back. That's not Los Angeles. I know. That's what I was saying. I was like, so in, I guess in L.A., the far, coming from Pasadena, I guess the far.

But still, you'll drive all the way to Calabat. Carl's Bad. Yes. And I was in Los Alamos the weekend before. at a fabulous place called Bells. Oh, my gosh. So for those who don't know, if you don't live in California, Carl's Bath, uh, Carlsbad, uh,

Carlsbad, uh, is halfway to San Diego or pretty much all the way to San Diego, which is a good two and a half, three hour drive depending on traffic. Yeah, it took up. But I, you know, I stopped in, this is how I planned my day. It's all about like where the meals are and I try to group them together. This is why I drive a Prius. Um, so I was like, oh, you know, I'm going to have this dinner in Carlsbad at five at this amazing restaurant called Lilo.

It said, all right. So I'm going to make plans to go to Orange County before. and try this Vietnamese place that I've been wanting to try. On the way. Get some tea and then head down there. So I kind of broke it up. And then on the way back, I hit up a bakery and Long Beach that I want. You know, I just like, this is just how.

And that wasn't even for work. This is just how I chose to spend my Saturday Sunday. Yeah. My God. Yeah. And I was by myself. I was like, this is fine. Yeah.

Oh, my God. That's, I love that. Yeah. What made you decide? Because I know that it didn't start off as a food writer with the LA Times. No, I was writing about food before, but no, not at the LA Times. Times because there wasn't a position available. Oh.

Yeah. So I started in... Take me back then. Why did you start... When did you and where did you start writing about food? And then you moved over to the LA Times. Yeah, so I started writing about food when I was working for my university newspaper at UC Irvine.

I was working for the school newspaper, which I loved. And then I started writing about food in grad school when I was at USC a while ago. So we had a... You're only 40. Don't give me that shit. No, no. I mean, a little... It just wasn't yesterday.

Yeah. I'm still super young and fabulous, obviously. Yes. But when I was in grad school, we started a digital publication. My class called Neon Tommy. And so I had like a food column and a dating column in there, which I hope no one can look up. It was embarrassing. As everyone was looking at it up now.

I know, right? I shouldn't. Anyway, so I was writing about food then. And then when I got out of grad school, I was applying, you know, it was 2010. in a recession, it wasn't the best time to be in media. And all my professors were saying, you're going to have to freelance, you're going to have to do all these things.

You know, don't count on a nine to five, like an actual staff job at a paper or anywhere. And I was like, all right. So I like made the spreadsheet. I applied to like 50 jobs. And the LA Times was one of them. And I, you know, I went in for an interview and it was actually for a position,

an image, which is their fashion section. I love fashion, but I'd never thought about, pursuing it in any way, writing about it in any way. But my mom told me, and I really want to be in the food section, but they didn't have a position. They had it in the fashion section. And she was like, you know what, just take the opportunity, just get in the door and then you can kick it open. And she was so right. And so I got in the door. I started working for the fashion section, which I loved. I met some amazing colleagues who are still, you know, lifelong friends.

And I was like, oh, you know, you don't have a celebrity fashion call. I'm like, you know, why don't we do something? And we called it frugal fashion. And I was like on how to like dress like your favorite celebrity. Like let's break down their look. And so I ended up getting my own like fashion column at the LA Times after I'd been there for a couple months because I was like, hey, you're not doing this. I can do it for you. So it was just like constantly raising my hand, figuring out like how to fill whatever hole they had. Meanwhile, keeping my eye on the food section, which was just around the corner in the office and pitching the food editor being like, you know, I know you don't know me. I sit over here. Here's what I want to do. You know,

like give me an assignment. I will do it on the weekend. I'll do it for free, whatever. And so they gave me a chance, and I started writing for food. And this is the years of that Jonathan Gold was there. Yeah, no, this is before Jonathan. This is before Jonathan. Before Jonathan, yes, before Jonathan. You were there before Jonathan? Well, he, I'm trying to remember he was, was he there before, and then he came back,

or no, that was Lori, that was his wife. Yes, but so I was there right before him. Because I think he came in, was it 2013, maybe? Because I think that's around the time that I met him. Is that when? Maybe. Wow. Yeah, so I was there, no, I was there a little bit before him.

Yeah. And then, so I remember when he was joining the food section, we were all so excited. We were so excited. This is such a legend. He was, he was a funny guy. I liked him a lot. Yeah, he was fantastic. So yeah. And then I, and then when a position came up, I started in the food section full time. Wow. That's how I ended up. And now you're like angling over into that corner of the building. So, yeah. And now you're the food critic. Yes. I love it. I'm a restaurant critic. Yes. Yeah.

What were some of your earlier food stories for, once you've been. became a writer for that section. I covered the food of the Orange County Fair. I ate everything you could dream of that was deep fried. Deep fried. It was deep fried. Butter, it was deep fried. How did they do that? I know you freeze the butter and then, but how?

That's what I thought, but it was, I'm trying to remember, it was like butter in the middle of this, was it butter or Jack Daniels in the middle of like a churro like thing? I remember I ate deep fried butter and deep fried Jack Daniels and I didn't understand how they did it. Neither one of those. Yeah, but it was like oozed out of the, middle of a chiro thing. And I was like, I was like, not terrible. I don't need to eat it again. Right. But it was not what I was expected, you know. But yeah, all kinds of deep fried.

There's a video up somewhere. Yes, we, I was covering it there. Well, my dream is to eventually on Valerie's Place have a bunch of your videos that people haven't seen and they need to see them. Oh yeah. You have a bunch of stuff out there that I want to get on Valerie's Place because I just think your content is so great. Thanks, Val. I love it. Thank you. This is what I love about the way that you review restaurants. too is because we talk we'd go on our mall walks with joe yes and we talk about a lot of stuff um yeah and talk about the places you go and the places of the restaurants that you haven't loved but this is what i love about you is you will not put it because you know how hard it is to have a restaurant in this city

in any city and so you're not about to write a story that's going to hurt a restaurant and i i think that is so admirable and i love that because sometimes people can just have an off day sometimes your restaurant can't have an off day even though that you will give them multiple chances. At least three. Yes, yes. But you won't write a negative, negative review. Like, you'll always find something positive. And this isn't, we just with one of my last guests, Abby, we talk about toxic positivity. And I don't think that's toxic positivity to find the best in things and in people, in restaurants, in businesses that you like, that you may not have had great experiences at. So how, what made you decide to do that? And how do you navigate your

way through having a terrible experience at a restaurant and going, I can't write about this. Yeah. I mean, it depends. I've written negative reviews or critical, I should say, rather than negative. I try to be. There's a difference between constructive criticism and negative reviews. There's a big difference. I haven't written like a takedown or like trashed a place because I don't. You don't believe in that. No, I don't see, I also don't see the need to do that. There are so many amazing restaurants. Also, no one goes into the restaurant. Also, no one goes into the restaurant business thinking it's going to be bad, you know, thinking their restaurant's going to be bad. Like, they're trying their best every day just to keep the doors open. So if a place is truly

terrible, I don't need to tell the world. Like, you know, I don't, you know, I mean, let them. Do you give them suggestions saying, listen, I think maybe if you tried to, you know, do this a little bit, do you, if they're open to it or they usually not open to it. Okay. If they ask me for my genuine feedback, I will tell them verbal, you know, I'll let them know, like, hey, the chicken was raw. You know, or something, or it was so salty, it hurt the inside of my mouth. But like, I'm not, you know, but I don't need to broadcast that to the world. Let them fix it and figure it out. And also what I don't like, somebody else might love, you know.

That's true. It's all subjective. It's all subjective. That's just my opinion. You know what I mean? And it's great that people like to read my stuff and people agree with me, but a lot of people don't. And that's totally fine. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Did you know that I'm back in the kitchen with a new cooking show? If you head to Valerie's place.com, not only will you be able to watch my podcast with the full reveal. You'll also be able to watch my new cooking shows and Valerie's home cooking. And you're going to have a place to hang out and connect with the rest of this amazing community. Share stories, recipes, and more. So just go ahead, head to Valerie's Place.com to learn all about it.

Oh, and use the promo code podcast at checkout for 10% off your first month. Because of your diverse background, like how do you get people to open? open up their palate to try things that they wouldn't normally try. Like as an American who has an Italian background and an English-Irish-Irish background, like I was so new to Indonesian food with my first husband, but I loved it. So good. I love Indonesian food because I was open to it at 20 to learn from my mother-in-law. So how do you do that with people to make them open up their palate to try new things?

I feel like I can't even take credit. I feel like Jonathan Gold was the one who really changed the way, not just Angelinos, but people around the world think about food and appreciate food. I feel like his big goal was to get people to explore other cultures and other parts of the city through food. So if he could entice you to a different neighborhood you'd never been to through maybe an excellent Indonesian fried chicken or a tamale somewhere. Like he wanted to write about it because he wanted to encourage you to connect with another community that wasn't yours. So I feel like he was so good at that. And I think it makes our world smaller, which is what we need to do too. Yes, it does.

We are all so much more similar. Yes, fine common ground. Indonesians have noodle dishes just like spaghetti in Italian food. You know, we have bami in Indonesian is spaghetti and Italian. So we all have raviolis or they could be called dumplings. Exactly. I did a whole series on dumplings just for this. And each episode was a different cultures dumpling.

Oh! Yes. And we had a ravioli episode. But that's part of it. It's just like we are all so similar, you know, like let's find common ground and let's eat something together. Yeah. And that could help with maybe personalities around the world.

Like just like being, like I wish this country spoke more languages. I mean, when I talk to somebody who English is their second language, I'm in awe of them. Because first of all, English isn't easy to learn. And that means that you are using a language that you're not comfortable with. And I admire that. And I wish more people in America could do that. But let's not get political. Same.

Let's talk specifically about We sort of talked about how often you go out to eat So on a day that you're not doing the 101 best restaurants When you're not like gearing up to do that with Bill Okay How many times do you, like I can't believe you had a Saturday free week And you spent going to three different, two different restaurants Yeah

Or three. Well here's a thing though, they might turn into a story Yeah For me everything is work but not in a bad way that you might think It's like everything I eat might turn into something that I can write about. It might turn into a column. It might turn into review.

For me, it's a recipe. Anything I try, I might want to make a recipe out of. Yeah. Right? You know, like, it's like you can't turn that part of your brain off, like when you're eating and you're cooking something or thinking through it. And again, it's not a bad thing. It's just something that I can't switch off.

So as much as I was like, yes, the Times Sedan assign me to go to those restaurants. Like I went because I was curious about the food. It all creates more context for everything that I do going forward anyway. So, yeah. If you had to, this is an impossible question. because I can't answer it. But if you had to choose, like, one or two restaurants in, first of all, let's say California, because we did go to Paris together.

And out of all those restaurants, I don't know that I could pick one that we went to that I love so much because I love them all. I couldn't either. Even the one that made us order an entire dish for each of us, even though we didn't want to have entire dishes. I'm so glad we did because it was so good. Bistro de Tornel. Is that what it was? Yes, which is very good. It was.

Everyone go. Yes, every go. And what was the George? Oh, was it Shea George? Shea George. Yes. Oh, my God, that was so good. The steak.

My mouth is watering, just thinking of that steak that I had six months ago. It was so good. It was so good. Oh, my God. So good. Even the salad, the friset salad. The frisade salad was so good. Oh, everything about it.

A meal. Oh, my God. And just being there with you and Joe, oh, it was just so fun. It was magical. If you had to pick a restaurant here in California that you would send people to, and price is no object or like the like a hole in the wall and don't say jitlata because we all love jitlata you can't send them to jitlata because that's where we would send everybody okay okay I love you jazz but we're not going to send people there okay because you're already crowded

okay wait so if I can just send someone to one restaurant for anything yeah they're saying I'm coming to L.A. I only have 24 hours send me to a restaurant oh this is so hard I usually ask people for parameters I'm like okay what's your budget or I'm like what neighborhood will you be and do you want a specific type of cuisine because it's right it's so it's It's so vast. Broad and vast. How long do we have next week? Say the valley.

Oh, in the valley. You can't say a petite twas and you can't say Casabega, which are my two favorites. Oh, then I'll say Anna Jack Ty. Okay. Yes. I can never get in. Oh, you know what my trick is, which is not a trick, is that I just... Goat opening?

I just look up, well, I put myself on, you know, the online wait list, I just look up when they release reservations, whether it's a month or two out. And I set an alarm on my phone for like midnight. And then I like wake up because I'm in bed before midnight. And I wake up and I like go on and like take the 430 reservation on a Sunday. And then if you're willing to eat. I know. I have to wait for a reservation.

Yeah. So if you're willing to eat at 430 on a Sunday, you can get into it. I would love to eat 430 on a Sunday. That's like the way I like to eat. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, Anna Jack Ty.

Anajai in the Valley. Okay. Beverly Hills. Oh, Lorenzo, California. Yeah, great sandwiches, right? Yes, fantastic sandwiches. Even more than sandwiches, they started doing pasta. The Nyoki there is, oh, my God.

Amazing. Oh, yonoki. The couple that run this place, I want them to have more space. I want the hours to be longer at the restaurant. Their sandwiches are amazing. Yes, they're really amazing, but also go for the pasta. I'm going to have to try the pasta. I will try Lorenzo's.

Okay. Let's say Santa Monica. Santa Monica or Venice? Either one. They're close enough. Simpeng, which was one of the Indonesian places I was telling you about, just opened, sorry, I think it is Venice, but it's very close, just opened a restaurant in Venice. It's the same restaurant. They have really great Indonesian food.

I have to go. I miss. I miss my mother-in-law's cooking. Yeah, I know. We talked about this. Yeah, we'll have to go. Yeah. We'll have to go. Yeah. So Simpang, I think. Okay. Arcadia. Oh, wait, sorry. I also forgot Pajolet. Pazzoly. That's actually in Santa Monica. Okay. And it's excellent French food. Okay. Yes. Okay, Pasadena. Pasadena. Pasadena, Arcadia? I guess in Pasadena, there's a place called Bone Kettle, which is, it's in old town. It's Southeast Asian food.

Do you remember Casilla that was in Santa Monica, Brian Ings restaurant? It very much reminds me of that restaurant. It's fantastic. There's so much more on the menu than bone broth, but they make this, like, fabulous, really rich, like, nourishing bone broth. And then these super chewy noodles to go with it. And then you kind of add proteins. But there's so much more to the menu. they have these crispy shrimp, they have papaya salad.

Oh, papaya salad. It's, I feel like it's so underrated too. I was like, why is no one? And it's not new. Like Jonathan reviewed it years ago. Oh, wow. But it is like consistently, there's something to be said for a restaurant that survives in L.A. has consistent business.

And their food stay, stays consistent. Exactly. Consistency being the word of the day. Yes. So I think that place is wonderful in Pasadena. You say papaya salad. My favorite thing at Jazz's Jitlata is her mango and sticky rice. It's really good.

And I love that she won't do it when the mangoes aren't seasoned to you. It's like it has to be perfect or not all. Yes, I appreciate that. Oh, God, so good. All right. What am I something I going to ask you? Okay. Oh, yeah, this is what I really wanted to know.

And I started to get onto it with cultures. But what are some of your favorite, the families behind the food stories that you write? They do make amazing, like amazing food. And a lot of the stories are passed down through generations. Or what are some of the. favorite, like, family stories that you've come about when writing about restaurants? I'm sorry that jazz keeps coming up because, but that- I love jazz.

Because that family specifically, I mean, Jazz and her late brother, Tooey, came to L.A. Yeah. I think they had, like, I don't even know if they had $100 in their suitcase, and they took over this restaurant, and they just built it into this, now it's just this legendary thing in Los Angeles. But it really is a family story. I think Jazz has over over a dozen brothers and sisters. She is one of, I think, 12 or 13.

Really? Yes. And she, and so Tui's daughter, who is her niece, Sugar, runs the restaurant. Sugar's there all the time. She's like runs it. Yeah. Jazz's two daughters are always there running with her. One of them opened a Thai tea place in Orange County.

So it's just like, I don't know, that family, so much of that restaurant and what makes it special is that Jazz's family runs it, and those are family recipes that have been passed down. And Jazz is just such a special lady. Yeah, she's like everyone's mom. I love her so much. She's everyone's mom. She's, or auntie. She's so wonderful.

But I think, yeah, that family story was one of the most magical. How did you meet Jazz? I met her. Oh, gosh, it was years ago. I can't remember if I was doing a story or a colleague was doing a story. I know Joe did a story. She went through the entire menu. Yeah, so Joe went through the entire menu, wrote about it, I think, on her blog.

And then my colleague, who's now the deputy food editor at the Times, Betty Halleck, wrote a story on Joe doing her story. Yep. And I met Joe through Betty. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so I just remember I've been going to Jitlato with Joe for a decade. Yeah. Just a really long time.

Ever. Yeah. And then, you know, I've written about jazz over the years. We did a fun video together where I tried to recreate her secret jazz burger. At one point she's like, with or without the peppers. Oh my gosh, with the peppers. Oh! And at one point she's in the closet, like in one of the little closets in her kitchen, like secretly mixing whatever.

And I was like, jazz, like I'm not going to tell anyone else, even though there's a camera. Like, just show us what you have. She's like, and they're like, no, I can't show anyone. It's my secret. Anyway, she's amazing. She will die with that secret. She will. And you know what?

I think sugar, no, I think sugar. Yeah, sugar knows. Sugar knows all the secrets. Yeah. I just adore her. She's the best. Amazing. How did you meet Joe?

Oh, through Betty. I met Joe through Betty. Uh-huh. Yes, I met Joe through Betty. Because I've known Joe for... You've known her longer than I have. Yeah. Yeah.

And we're talking about Joe Stugard. Yeah, Joe Stugard. Yeah, my last bite on Instagram, she's a great follow as well. She's like, she is one of the sweetest, kindest. I write about her in my book as well. She's just one of the sweetest kind of. women I've ever met, human beings. Like, she's like her heart-a-gold easily.

And fearless. Fearless. Fearless. So sure of herself. Like, I've, she's constantly, both of you constantly inspire me. So I, but yeah, both of you are so wonderful. She travels, she does a great travel blog on her, um, Instagram. I, I just adore both of you.

She's in my, she's in my phone as fabulous, Joe. Like when I met her, I put her in my phone as that because I was like, this woman is so fabulous and has stayed in my phone like that. Yes. We need to find her a Russian cowboy because she's, she deserves to be with someone great. Yes. And we want to find her.

And it needs to be a Russian cowboy. Yeah, it has to be a Russian cowboy because she speaks Russian. Yes. She's from Okinawa and, you know, in Scotland. So hotland. So, yeah, yeah. Okay. So for people, like, okay, for Wolfie's dad, Ed, who grew up on this Indonesian food,

I used to cook for him. And he used to enjoy it. He was very sweet about it. But he got to a point where he's just like, yeah, I don't care about food. I just need to put it in my body because I need to. for sustenance, I need to stay alive. Like, he didn't care about it until it got near the end of his life and then I made him Bami a year before he died and he just loved it.

Anyway, but there's a lot of people out there that don't necessarily enjoy food because they didn't necessarily grow up with the joy of food that I had, that you had growing up, or that Joe had. So what is maybe some advice to, so how they can enjoy food more? Because there are those people out there. Yes. But one of my best friends husbands is one of them. Like, he just eats as fuel.

Right. And I find him so fascinating. It's fascinating. Because I'm just like, we're talking about what to eat. And we're talking about what to eat. And he's like, whatever. And I'm like, what do you mean? Whatever.

Like, you've no, you know, you don't care. He literally doesn't care what we eat. And no matter what we eat, he's like, yeah, that's good. But it doesn't, like, crave anything. I actually don't know. Yeah, I don't understand that either. I don't really know what to say to someone like that. I honestly, I find it fascinating.

I find it fascinating. But I also feel bad for something. them not I mean they're totally fine they're because they're not getting the same joy and pleasure that I am out of this. Exhilaration. Exactly like and maybe I think like okay maybe they just haven't had that one dish or that one flavor or spice where you get this like a whole body like gets like oh my goodness like this is magic on a plate like and you're like I can't believe I'm tasting this and you feel super alive and you're like oh my god I'm so alive and I taste this in every like every I could taste it every yes yes and so.

I just, I hope that maybe they just haven't found that thing, but I don't know. I think some people are just wired, you know, wired differently and they just don't. And maybe something else gives them that joy. Exactly. And it's not food. Totally. Yeah. I don't get it.

Yeah. But I want everyone to have that same joy that we have. Is there anything you won't eat? Like is there, I've never seen you turn anything away. I will try anything once. And I, and I really do mean that. Like, even bugs? Yes.

I've eaten bugs. I, when I was in Iceland with my sister, we were served. winky whale and it's um I didn't eat puffin though it's not because I refuse I was I know I was just they sold them at like the gift shops like like stuffies of them and I was like I don't know if I can eat I was like I don't know and it's a long story but we were at this restaurant and we ended up sitting at the chef's counter because we didn't have a reservation but they were so kind to seat us it's a Saturday night and you could do the tasting menu or not and neither was that hungry so we're like we're not going to do it but the chef in front of us he just

liked that we were there and we were American and we were talking to him and he was, you know, preparing the tasting menu for everyone else in the dining room. And I asked him, you know, what is that dish that keeps going out to everyone? And he's like, Vinky Whale. And I didn't really, I thought maybe, you know, I was like, oh, it was very loud in there. I was like, maybe I didn't hear him. And then he gifted it to it. He didn't know who I was or I worked for nothing like that. He was just being kind to some tourists. And so he gifted us this. And he was like, here, so you can try it. I said, oh my God, thank you so much. That's so kind of you. So my sister's like nudging me on the table. She's like, I Googled it. I

Googled it. I said what. She's like, Jen, it's an actual. She's like, she's like telling me it's like, whale. And I was like, I was like, there's no, she's like, you're going to have to. I've taken so many things for the team. Like, I always take one for the team with my sister. Like she's never actually taken one for the team. And so this is another time. I'm telling her next time. Oh, she knows this. And this was like, oh, God, I'm going to, I'm going to have to eat this. And I was like, you know what? I've never tried it. Maybe I'll love it. Like, like, just get the image out of your head. He's so kind and gracious to share this with me. I feel like I'm, it's like you're in someone's home and they said, of course you're going to try it.

So I took a bite and it was not my favorite thing, was not my favorite texture. It was very rubber. It just wasn't for me. I didn't grow up eating it. It wasn't for me, but I tried it, you know, and I was like, great. But then there were six pieces. And there was no way I was going to leave the whole thing. So I ate.

So I ate five of them because I didn't want to be, because I want, you know, I wanted. And also I was like, I didn't die. I was fine. It wasn't my favorite thing. But my sister, she still owes me. She still owes me for this. Each one I had with like a giant gulp of my wine. And yeah, forever.

That was probably the wildest thing I've ever eaten. I've eaten a lot of stuff. Yeah. I had in Chicago at a restaurant, they were just bringing us stuff. And I could see what it was, but I had to try it because they were just gifting us stuff. It was beef tongue. Oh, I just ate that yesterday. Why?

It's so. See, it's a textural thing. It's a textural thing for me. I don't know. Texture's very important to me. Same. It's very important. I had it at tacos.

I was going to say, so I have it on, I have it at taco truck all time and I love it. If you have it a taco with something crunchy. No, this was just literally sliced super thin and the way it was, you know how salami comes sliced and you can see? Well, this, that's how it was sliced and you could see the shape of the tongue. Yeah, not for you. That's okay. Not for me.

Yeah. But I had to. And I'm like so. You tried it. Oh. I'll never have to try it again. That's the thing. As long as people try something, even if they,

don't think they're going to like it or scary, whatever. Just try it. And if you really don't like it, that's fine. But just try it. I'll never eat uni again. The same reason. I don't like it. I get it.

I don't like uni. I get it. Okay. I had to eat it too much for a roll. I had to eat like 18 takes or something. And I finally said, which one was this? This was back in the 80s. Oh.

Was it like I think I was a gambler or something. Oh, amazing. Oh, I had to eat 18 different takes with Uni. Yeah. No. After a while, I said, can I just eat the rice? Can I just like, no more uni, please. I'm sure they were fine because even back then it was expensive.

But, um, so did we talk about the best meal you've ever eaten? Oh my God. I don't know how to answer that. I mean, how do you answer the best meal you've, because I don't know that I could. I mean, I could say the best meal I've ever eaten was when I was six years old sitting in my Aunt Adeline's basement eating a freshly brewed cup of, you know, capoletti imbordo that my noni just made and I watched her make it. Sounds amazing.

That was amazing. And but I also had something very similar to that at Moza, Nancy Silverton's restaurant, where she makes a capoletti ambrodo and it tastes very similar to my grandmas. Yeah. So is there a meal that you know you're always going to love? Is there a certain food group that you just happen to love? Yeah. I mean, I guess for me, best coincides with like comforting or just like something that I would

enjoy eating every day or that I crave. And that's my grandma, my grandma Tina. my Chinese grandma, for the holidays, she would make her sticky rice. There's actually a recipe. There's actually a recipe. We ran it in the L.A. Times like years ago, so you can actually look it up. Her sticky rice is amazing. With sweet and condensed milk?

No, it's actually savory. So this is like a Chinese sticky rice. It's also called sweet rice. I'm still thinking of jazz mango and sticky rice. No, so it's the way you kind of almost cook. You soak the rice and you drain it, and then you almost kind of cook it like risotto. So it gets like the grains are really like um plump. Yeah, plump and but like take on this like sticky texture. And then it has rehydrated mushrooms and a dried shrimp and

lapchung like the Chinese sausage and green onion and she finishes it with soy sauce and like a pat of butter. That's that's her trick. Please tell me you know how to make this. Oh yes. That's thing. Yeah. It's online. Recipes.llatimes.com. You can you can look it up. We ran the recipe. And I remember when I was reporting this, because I asked her, can we share it? Because it's my most favorite thing to eat in the world. And she would make it with her these like chashoe ribs. There's also a recipe for that in LA Times. So those two things together.

And I associate it with the holidays. And these are the two things she would cook. But that rice, I remember because she doesn't have a recipe. And so I was in the kitchen with her for hours. And she was about to like, she's like, you know, you just put the white pepper in. Wait, let me measure that. So I literally only like grabbed her hand. And I was like, I need to measure this.

And she looked at me like I was insane and I was, but I was like, I need to know how to do this. So, yes. I wish I'd done that with my nunny. So many things that have, like, gone now. Yeah. And I was like, it would be so special to get to preserve this and have other people get to make it who don't even know you. So, yeah, I think that meal, those two things together would be my best. How did she feel when she saw it in the paper?

Oh, this article. So one of our photographers came to the house and then, like, took pictures of her and there's a really beautiful portrait of her. And so, yeah, so we've, we printed it and framed, not printed it, sorry, we just got a copy of the paper and framed it and it's in her house. And it's literally like right next to the chair. She always sits in. It's like up on the wall. So she was very proud. And she looked amazing. Yeah. That's so wonderful for her. That was great. Oh, I love that. So thank you so much for listening or watching the Getting Naked, the podcast. So we're going to ask a few more questions of Jen and get to listener questions in our full reveal, which is just for subscribers. So if you want to hear more,

and your questions, head over to Valoriesplace.com and sign up. For just $2 a month, you'll get to hear the full reveal, and you will also get early access to all of the podcasts. Thanks again for listening, and for those of you sticking around with me and my good friend, L.A. Times restaurant critic, Jen Harris, we're just going to keep on going, so come on back. Thank you for listening to Getting Naked the podcast.

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