Getting Naked: The Podcast - Keeping it Hot

Episode Date: June 10, 2026

In this episode of Getting Naked: The Podcast, host Valerie sits down with Hot in Cleveland executive producer Todd Milliner to trace his journey from Chicago improv to his 20-year comedy and business partnership with Sean Hayes. Milliner shares invaluable industry lessons learned from director Jim Burrows, answers fan questions, and lastly he and Val explore the Vick Tayback phenomenon.

So we have a really fun podcast today. I have my dear friend Todd Milliner who's here. He was the executive producer's showrunner of Hot in Cleveland. I've known him for 16 years. Very funny man. Before you watch this podcast, just do me a favor and go Google Vic Tabak. You'll thank me later. Okay.

See you soon. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins I see all of your comments I swear I do you are wondering where's my show this is so dang delicious smells divine as a jalapeno popper oh my god it's so good yes I'm back and I am cooking for all of you all right Sophie what are we

reheating today welcome to now vows cooking guess what we're gonna make right now we're alive hi everybody how are you you have to go to Valerie's place that's where you can see our book group this podcast that's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing. That's how good it is. So head to Valerie'splace.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members, and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time. We're doing a podcast today with my old dear friend. He's not necessarily old, but a length of time that we've known each other is 16 years. So I would say that's a long time. He is the executive

producer, was the executive producer of Hot in Cleveland. Executive produces a lot of other I will let him talk about that. But we've known each other a long time. He is the straightest gay man I've ever met in my whole life. Well, Mom, guess what? I'm gay. What am I looking? Here's your camera right there.

But before we get into today's episode, I just want to give you a quick reminder to stay tuned for the full reveal. That's where we get a little bit more into stuff. But all of the full reveal is available for Valerie's Place members only. And if you want to be able to access the full reveal and get early access to the podcast, just head on over to valorsplace.com and sign up. All right. Done. Are you signed up? I am signed up. Do you want me to give you a free code? No. I mean, I got one. No, but I don't want one. Let's talk about you. Yes. Let's. Okay. First of all, I got to say to thank God I am the same

size as Willis, because I showed up here thinking we were going to be doing this naked. No, you didn't. Put the books back down. Okay. Okay. You did not think. Anyway, on hardcover right now on Amazon. Oh, my God. Thank you for that. Wait, do you read it? Do you read it? The audio?

Yes. Go. The audio is actually really, it tore me up a little bit, and I really, I definitely recommend the audio because there's three meditations in here that are really, really important for me to write, and I think they're incredibly helpful, and some of them would be really nice to listen to as opposed to read. I will. It's also good to like underline. I read for a living, so to listen to it would be nice.

Tell me why you read for a living because you're always producing. Well. Looking for content. Looking for content. Yeah. Yes, I am. Okay, finish your thought because I want to say, because the world has changed so much in just the last 16 years, the world that we work in. So let go.

You know, it's funny, when we started hot in Cleveland, that was our first success. Not yours. I'm not using the. No, because you had the really good hour show, too. Grimm launched at the same time, basically. So Grim and Hollywood Game Night and Hot and Cleveland, which Hollywood Game Night, which you're very good at, and Hollywood Game Night, I all launched around the same time. And it's funny that now with the way the business is, now with people, the way people are consuming content, I've, you know, because when I first moved out here, I thought, if Hot and Cleveland was on during the time of Norman Lear, I think it just would have been a huge, I mean, it was already was a huge hit.

For TV land. But it would have been, you know, 30 million viewers, just like. viewers. And I thought, oh, I would have had this string of, you know, things with like Carol O'Connor or something. And now I look back today and I go, thank God we did hot in Cleveland when we did. And thank God we did grim when we did, because now the whole business is very different again. It really is. So we keep recreating my own brand and look for content in different ways. But I still love the way we did content. I love tape night. It was so much fun. Doing doing a show. show in front of a live audience, there's just nothing like it. The energy that you get, they become a part of the show.

Yeah. And they actually guide you into some of your best laughs. Like, they'll start laughing. All you have to do is put the camera on Betty, and they'll start laughing before she even speaks. You know, Suzanne Martin, who created Hot in Cleveland, I mean, half and half. She wrote it and was the showrunner along with Todd. And I did a lot of the audio mixing. But she used to say that I think we did 130-something episodes.

Do you know the exact number? No. Because it's different everywhere. We did six seasons, but there was 20-something and, you know, it just changed. So we did over 130 episodes. And I'm going to forget the exact breakdown. But she's like about 80% of what we did was really good. And that's a good number, right?

I think it was higher. You know, maybe, and it may have been. And then she said, at about, you know, 15% are just decent shows, you know. And she goes, then there are 5%. And you go in and you're like, you know, we just didn't get at this way. I don't remember ever doing a bad show. You know, it's probably because we judge it a little more harshly when we're up in the room, you know, when we're looking at the edit. But the funny thing is when that would happen, if you just give, if just Betty says penis, you're good.

The entire audience is dying in Blackberry, once you go Blackberry, once you go Blackberry, once you have that line come out of her mouth. She was, God, rest her soul, she was, there was no one like her. No. She's an icon for a reason. And she was, she started the show when she was 88. Every time somebody says they feel old, I think, I just start, you know, we're talking about something with Snoop and Martha right now. And Martha's. She's 80 something.

Yeah. And I go, God, that's fine. Yeah. Betty was 88. Yeah, Betty was 88. She won her Emmy for SNL when she was 88, you know. Do you remember when we were at the SAG Awards when she was. nominated and we're sitting at the table and I hope this is okay that I say this but Betty

used to like vodka oh I say it all the time yeah who doesn't by the way she was proud of it I mean you don't like vodka I used to used to um and uh she was having a couple drinks and we were talking and I thought I wonder what's going to happen if she wins you know because she's a little little tipsy and she goes out she wins of course and she gets up there and she's exactly the same as she was completely sober yeah such a pro she was Unbelievable. Unbelievable. But wait, I have to say something before you keep going, because she will keep going.

That we talk about Betty, without in Cleveland, and we talk about that a lot. But without you and Wendy and Jane? I mean, honestly, people would talk about, if Betty wasn't 88 and had this huge career and was beloved and an icon, they would still be talking about the three of you guys. And it was just, you know, when you get a cast like that. We had a really good thing going with you. Jane and Wendy. And we just really liked each other. You won't say you. You won't say me.

You won't. Because I was riding their coattails. I don't believe that. I was holding on to the reins of them with their wings. I learned so much. And yes, I think I'm a good comedic actress, but I got so much better the five years that we did that show. I think I would say I would never use the word better, even though I think it's probably valid. I think it's just, you found out who you were. You grew into the part, which I guess

made it better. The writers, the way they watch people, the way they viewed all of us, and they would key into our strengths. And so I was basically playing, I always say this, that I was playing a heightened version of me. Like the craziest wacky that I can ever get, that's Melanie. Yeah. Because she's still, and I know that I have a kindness to me, that I want to be good to people, but I also know that I could be petty and jealous and mean. So I love that Melanie held all of that together. Yeah, she wanted to be the good person, but did she want to get back of people too?

I just watched the one, and I know we're not here to talk about necessarily. This is probably about my relationships. But I would just watch the one with Shirley Knight when your mom came on. I remember it was Wendy Malick had Hal Linden, Juliet Mills, right? Oh my God, I love. Love Julia. Jane's mother. We introduced her.

And then Shirley Knight was your mother and Hal Lyndon. And then, of course, Betty was 88, so we didn't introduce her parent. And it was so funny that Shirley Knight, God rest her soul, too, because it's, she had all of those same things that you're talking about. And that's where you got them in our show. But it's funny that you said that those were your real traits. but we cast somebody that was playing an older version of you that's playing

and... But she reminded me a lot of my actual mother. That's so funny. It's crazy. Yeah. I love her. I think she's brought it... I think one of the lines

was about bringing like a rape whistle to dinner and then your line is like, well, that really spells a good time. I think you can bring a rape whistle to dinner. So we have good intentions, yes. Yes. Yes, they were great times and that's how we met. Yes, yes.

You lied to all of us to get us to come to the show. I did, but that story's going to be on our other podcast. Okay, okay, so we'll talk about that later. I can't because that story is so good. It is good. It is very good. But what I want to talk about is how you started doing this, because you're an actor. I was an actor.

A comic. I seriously doubt that. No, no, no, I was not good. I told my agent in Chicago, I think I told one of these guys that all look the same. I think I told one of them. It's Billis, Andrew, and Billy. I know what their names. I've been on a lot of them lately.

And I was telling them, I think, that my agent's, set me up with an audition at Chicago Shakespeare, and I just called him and I said, who do you want to be more embarrassed? This is not going to go well. I would love to see you do Shakespeare. No, no, and I didn't. I don't understand Shakespeare.

I basically, I don't. If it's in the park, maybe with some chicken, which is a dirty bird I don't understand Taming of the Shrew. I wanted to. I watched the whole thing. I just, I don't get it.

Good Shakespeare. I mean, come on. I mean, most of us. But I love the book Hamnet. I was so good. Did you not see the movie? I haven't seen it yet because I'm saving that for when I really need a good cry. No, but I was, so.

So, yes, so I was, but I was part of the second city in Chicago. And I used to teach at the second city. Were you always funny? Well, that's a hard question to answer, but it is funny. Did you always get told you were funny? Yes, and I think it's because I wanted attention. Always growing up. I was a middle child and not the brightest.

And I think that, I mean, I have friends. from grammar school that that will will write something on the Facebook, you know, because I haven't talked to that. I love you. Call it the Facebook because that was the original title. And they're like, we have, you know, it's like lovely that you have had the success, but we did not, we are not surprised to learn that you had to get up on stage and be adored by people because there's something missing from your life. So yeah, so I leaned into comedy a lot. I think I leaned into comedy a lot. Do we want to dig into your childhood? It was not that interesting. You know, I think it's just,

that growing up gay, that's a hard thing to say for a long time. Really? When did you decide to come out? Oh, I was very late because I was very much an athlete in high school as well. By the way, why do we call it coming out? Like, why can't you just be, be? Yeah. Why do you have to tell people what you are? Is there some kind of lineage in, out of the closet? Do you come out of the closet? Is that why? But I just don't understand why you can't just be what you are. Can you get somebody to check that?

Is there some intern that checks that? And then it goes in your ear? Is that not happening here? No, no. I don't know what. I could just be wrong about things here. I think I told I was with my current husband, who I've been with for 28 years. Michael. Michael. Who's the way more talented than nice.

So talented. That last play I saw of his blew my mind. He's just, you know, so yesterday we get this message from Celebration Theater, he's part of. I said that we think Gene Smart left a message for you. So we listen to the message. And it is, Gene Smart. She's like, I heard great things about you, about Mike. Michael Matthews, I'd love to talk to you about directing a show.

And I thought, that's nice. That's nice. Then when you get that kind of recognition. Yeah. Yeah. He deserves it. I have no idea. Oh, oh.

Oh, so my parents, I never told them, but they knew. And so one day, I think we were making breakfast or something, and I was home from college. And I just said, you know, I don't even know. I was after college. I was that much of a wuss. Actually, having the conversation. That's not being a wuss. It's not like any environment has ever made it comfortable.

Yeah. Yeah. And I just said, you know, Michael's not just my friend. And my dad looked at me with tears in his eyes and said, I was always up to you when he wanted to tell us. And my mom's like, I don't feel any different. Let's have breakfast. And it was the best story, which I'm so grateful for because there are so many stories that aren't.

I just wish everyone could have that. Yeah. So great relationship with them. I'm so glad. You met them. And you met a lot of people during Hot and Cleveland. So forgive. But I have a picture because my dad passed during Hot in Cleveland.

But I have a picture with you guys and my mom and dad and Stacey Keech and Juliet Mills. It was one of those episodes. Oh, wow. Great people, great guest stars. Every episode was like that. Every one of them. But to have that memory. Yeah.

You have those pictures. I have a picture in my office of all of us watching the final scene of Hot in Cleveland. And it was us and Betty and Carol Burnett and Chris Colfer. Oh, my God. Because we were all watching the last scene. Oh, my God. And the look in everybody's eyes. When none of us wanted it to end.

I'm still pissed off at TV land for canceling us. I'm like, you have Betty White. How are you canceling us? I remember when we went down and told Betty, she started packing that day. And we're like, no, no, no, we still have 12 episodes. Don't pack up yet. But she thought we were coming down to tell her it was over, and I break my heart. Yeah.

She was ready to go. She's like, I'm out of here. Got vodka and dogs. I don't need this shit. Anyway. So you started Hazy Mills, which is the production company that produced. I went to college with Sean. I don't know. Did you know that?

I did not know that you went to college with Sean. I went to college. With Sean Hayes, television, Sean Hayes. I don't know who that is. Emmy Award winning Sean Hayes. Yes. Just check. Yes.

And Tony Award winning for our play on the Broadway. Yes. Isn't he do a one-man show right now? It just ended. Oh, bummer. Just ended. But it was, he's amazing. And so we went to college together.

He's stunning. He's stunning. And he was a music major. And I was English education. But we crossed in theater. theater. So, and then I would go visit him in those soundproof playing rooms, because he's a concert pianist, too, because you don't, you're not allowed to have like one fantastic skill. He has to have seven. Right. And I'm over there going, like, I can play beer pong. I don't know what that pays.

But, yeah, so, so he was there, and he would, as I would walk into that room, he'd start playing the greatest love of all. Oh, my God. Because he's an idiot. And, but then, He is as silly. It's like you guys are so silly together. Silly together. Well, that's, and I think that's a business of 20 years and knowing each other in college. We've always kept it silly, which is lovely. Yeah.

But I went back and I did Second City in Chicago and he moved out to Los Angeles where money was made I had heard. And I saw him on a Super Bowl commercial. And I just started like sweating thinking, oh God, like that was my path. Like why I should have been out there because now he's in a Super Bowl commercial. And we had stayed in touch a little bit. Second City. Yeah, but that did. That's amazing.

Well, it is, it is amazing. But, you know, like you were saying earlier, you're like, you get a little jealous. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I had called him, and as I was talking about Talk Soup, he started helping me get in front of the folks at E. And when I flew out to Los Angeles to audition for Talk Soup, I went and saw him, and I said, I have an idea for a TV show. And it was a short filmmaking competition. And he's like, you know what? I think I should start a production company.

And we went out and we pitched that, and we sold it to Bravo. And it was a short filmmaking competition. And I want you to know our judges. They never made it on the air. But we sold the pilot. And it was two teams would make a short film with the exact same script. So you'd see what two teams would do. Oh, I would love to see that.

And there were no names, like no sexes or anything. So you had to really interpret what the script was. And these were our judges. Craig Zaden, who won the Oscar for Chicago, the movie. Trudy Stiler, who makes all the guy Richie movies and Sting's wife. And John Favro. Those were our judges. That's why John just for the show.

That Bravo didn't pick up. I know. Well, you know, and Sean just called in favors. Wow. But then during that, and this is the, I mean, please cut this story down. I'm bored of myself. No, no, no, it's interesting. We made, then, I was watching Will & Grace because I had free food then on Tuesday nights.

Excuse me. Is there a cough button? Is that AM radio? Drink your water. We. Out of you're getting naked mug. We, uh, noise tastes better. It doesn't it?

I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments. I swear I do. You are wondering, where's my show? This is so dang delicious.

Smells divine. That's a jalapeno pauper. Oh my God. It's so good. Yes, I'm back, and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie. What are we reheating today? Welcome to Nal Vow's cooking.

Guess what we're going to make right now. We're alive. Hi, everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's Place. That's where you can see our book group, this podcast. That's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing. That's how good it is. So head to Valerie's Place.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members, and I can't thank you enough.

It's happy time. We, I watched Will and Grace get me, and I thought, we should make a show like Project Greenlight for sitcoms. And so we made that for Bravo and it was called Situation Comedy and we got 10,000 submissions. And we made in 10 weeks two multicams, two multi-cam comedies. Sherry O'Terry was in one. I love her. She's great.

And Tim Bagley was in another one. Oh, my God. And we cast it with it. It's so good. I always wanted him to have more shit to do on Hollywood. And we kept thinking like, how do you get him back realistically? Because he was the real estate agent. And like David Deloese was in it.

Oh, my God. All these great people. Andrew Leeds wrote, one of them, who's an actor now. And then we made them, and that's how I learned how to make TV, because we made two in ten weeks. And so I fooled everybody. You know, I didn't fool anybody. You were meant to do this.

Well, thank you. But I knew nothing about making it. And they're like, they're asking me on camera because we did behind the scenes, too. And they're like, well, why did you shoot this? I'm like, why not? That's when the improv came in handy. Yeah. Because it was all yes and.

Uh-huh. And I'm like, that is a good idea. I had it before you. But I'm a real leader. I let you have the idea now. And so then we started our company. And I thought since we sold the first two things we pitched, I thought this business is easy.

That's a lie about this business. And then we didn't sell anything like five years. On a general from our agent Richard White's at WME, William Morris Entertainment, for those of you that. Yeah. And Suzanne Martin, who wrote Hot in Cleveland. And won four Emmys for Frazier. Yes.

You know, very established writer. So was she in the Will & Grace? Because Frazier, Will & Grace, and I'm just thinking it's Jimmy Burroughs. Yeah, she had not. Okay. She had no real exposure to Will & Grace until it was on the second time. Right. She did do it then.

Yeah. And but she was just on a general meeting. And she said, I had this idea and it was a version of what became hot in Cleveland. And people were telling her, nobody's going to buy that. Nobody wants a 50-year-old woman. Yeah. And she pitched it to CBS, a version of the CBS, not the one that we ended up doing. but with Linda Opsed, God rest her soul.

Do you remember the producer Linda Ops who's not with us anymore? And she ended up being... That seems like an odd producer for a sitcom. Yeah, yeah. And she did all those Meg Ryan movies back in the day. And she ended up... I mean, if you look back at Hot and Cleveland episodes, it says executive produced by Todd Miller, Sean Hayes, and Linda Oakes.

That's right. Because she was tied to the original... I probably have that on my wall somewhere because I have the pilot on my wall. Yeah. Yeah, and I met Suzanne on a general and I said, wait, that idea about women of an age where they get to make a left turn. Let's talk about that a little. Yeah.

And then we became great friends. Yeah, she's amazing. Amazing. She stayed with her. She ran it. Then she took that one year, remember, when Chris and Sam ran it. But she would check in. Oh, that's right.

And then she came back around. I mean, I don't think people understand to write 22 episodes of a situation comedy all year. No. I don't know how they did it. No. I mean, it's just like, go, go, go, go, go. And then how do you tell an original story? How do you not feel redundant?

And what's the difference between a show that stays on for 130-something episodes of one that's on for seven, which I've had a lot of those two? Yeah, the same. I don't even know how to sell a show these days. I've been, you know, going around to this city and I have an hour and a half hour. And it's just like, no thank you, no thank you. You hear no thank you. But I heard no thank you all during, like before my first job. I heard no thank you a hundred times before I got a, okay.

You don't get into, we were, we was just talking about this yesterday with an actor who turned showrunner, and she's a very successful showrunner. And she said, she would always test every year for a show. So when you test, you're, you know, you're in the top like three, four, five people to get the part. And that was, you know, she just never got that series regular thing. And can you imagine them being that close to your dreams? Yeah. I mean, we had told no all the time. I mean, I was, it was between me and somebody else all the time and they would get it, you know.

But when it comes to Hot in Cleveland, like, you're offering me the part. It's like, how does that happen? Yeah. And look at you guys. I mean, honestly, you and Betty and Wendy and Jane all had other hits. Mm-hmm. That rarely happens. Rarely.

You always hear that story if they had one hit and then, you know, you get on something else and you get stars. Yeah. Because it is like lightning in a bottle. It's so, you can never predict when something's going to be as popular. But everything aligned perfectly the way. it was supposed to. Bob Heath told me to remember, you know, middle of the run, he said, just don't forget what you have here.

No. And I knew, I knew I would wake up every morning and go, this doesn't happen all the time. Yeah. Just take it all in. You get to go down to work. You get to go down to that studio and have the time of your life. Anytime you're in a bad mood, just think, you know, you get to watch Carl Reiner and Betty White do a scene.

Oh, my God. Yeah. And then there was man boobs. I think that was George Newbern. George Newbern. Yeah. And I, he's so funny. So funny.

That man just cracks me up. So kind. So kind. Such a sweet man. The way he would. Like Chevy. Let's cut that. Let's cut that.

You don't have to cut that. Everyone knows what Chevy's like. And they've watched the documentary. Oh, God. He's just a challenging human being. He is. He is. Yeah.

And he had, by the way, I know we're not talking about Han in Cleveland, but he had the best one. Do you remember his backstory? Okay. I remember sitting across from him at the booth. at the bar. Yeah, at Stormies. And they had to have his lines on a thing behind me. Yeah, he won a cue card, yeah.

Yeah. But other than that, I don't. The storyline was, he was on a date with you. I think it was his first date since he was in one of those plane crashes where a lot of people survived and had to eat his wife. How did I not remember that? How? That's so disgusting. He had such the funniest story for that birthday's episode.

And he just... We had the most, like... Why did Wendy have a goiter at one point? Yeah, and the guy with the tail? Who was the one? Oh, the guy with the tail! Because Wendy would always get the guys that would always have one little flaw.

A physical flaw. And she couldn't take physical flaws. The man moves is named Chester. And she said, well, that'll be easy to remember. Yeah. And he sets her... She sets him up with another date at the bar because she's like, I'm out.

I'm out. And he starts to take off his jacket, and she goes, no, leave it on forever. Such fun. Why did Wendy have a goiter? I don't know. I mean, the things that we got to do. You guys had me taped up to a wall.

Oh, my God. Yeah. I was literally taped to a wall. I woke up, and I don't know how I got up there. I didn't get, I'm re-watching a mall. Oh, my God. Because we were all, you know, these characters like their libations. Yes.

Okay. An audition for talk soup changed your life. Yes. Yeah. So I started my company. Sean saw the tape, got you a manager and started coming to, and then you started coming to L.A. for auditions. Yeah, I started.

Well, But you and Sean had always stayed in touch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But how do you involve into a business? I mean, you told us a little bit because you decided you had this great idea. I had an idea for a TV show, but I had a corporate career in Chicago, too. So I think the best thing about our business was Sean was ready to start a production company. And I kind of had the corporate side, and he had the face of the company.

And it's always helpful to have a partner. Oh, my gosh. I mean, doing it alone, I can't imagine. Yeah, awful. You know, I used to, do you remember the Silver Spoon on Santa Monica Boulevard? Like, it's Connie and Ted's now. Connie and Ted's is leaving. I know, I was leaving.

But I used to sit there on the porch because it had free Internet. And I used to sit there and Shelley Winters was there. Oh, my God. Robert Forster and Martin Landau. And Quinn Tarantino went to the Silver Spoon to get Robert Forster to do Jackie Brown. That's where it happened on the pedal. Wow, wow, wow. And that's where I would do the work to start our company.

I was sitting on the porch and I was working. And Shelley Winters, I was thinking, I didn't want to. Well, I can think of with Shelley Winters is. is in her book. Was it about Ernest Borgnene? The page was empty. She was all my loves in Ernest Borgne, empty. Was it Ernest Borgne?

I don't remember, but... She looked at me, though, that day. And I wanted to move back to Chicago. I hated it. You know, it's... I love Chicago. Chicago's a great town. I can just have a dog and a Jeep.

And... You got your dog? I got my dog. I think I had a Jeep, too, at some point. And, but she looked at me and she goes, I'm glad you're here. Oh, surely. I never met her.

And I did this. And I did this. I literally did the bit that you would look behind you. And she goes, no, no, you. I'm glad you're here. And then she passed like three weeks later. Oh, my God.

And I stayed. And now I'm here with Valerie Bertelli. You got a message from the universe. I got a message from the universe. Yes, he did. What is this question? How do you think the two of you made it work for so long? You and Sean.

You hear so many stories about Hollywood flameouts on camera and off. But it seems like you two. You both kept your heads up and heads down and keep and you kept grinding. So what's the secret? Because you guys have worked together a lot, but you also take time because, I mean, when he's in New York doing his stuff, you can't be. Yeah. Yeah. I think that when we moved here, we had a collection, a group of friends that were all Midwestern Chicago people. And all of them weren't afraid, all of those folks weren't

afraid to keep it real for us. Yeah. Aren't those the best friends? So we need those friends in our lives. And I think Sean and I did that too. And I think we had over the 20, years of our business, maybe two fights, really. And I think it's, you know, I think that, you know, at one point we were on a Zoom or, I don't even if it was a Zoom back then. It was just like whatever video wall at the agency. And we were being told something wasn't right for somebody. And it was for a specific reason that Sean was right previously.

And he looks at me and he goes, see, I told you. And I said, can we talk outside? Okay. Because I don't care for people saying things in. front of other people. It's okay to have notes. Right. But, like, I wouldn't tell you what a hack Billy is now.

I would wait. I wouldn't have cameras rolling. It's like, this is, like, this is between, living that in for Billy. But because it's between the two of you and, like, don't, don't make me, you know. He apologized so much and so quickly. And I'm sure the other fight was my fault. And then because we always were really good about, he's very good about this. Like, if we have had a problem with each other, let's get it out of the way now.

We don't wait overnight. I think it's a thing that successful couples do, and we kind of were a successful couple or are a successful couple. When you're a business partner with somebody, it can be an intimate relationship emotionally and mentally. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that we both at the end of the day truly love each other. Yeah.

And I think that's important, too. Yeah. He's a good man. I like it. And he's so flippant talented. He's famous. He is. I mean, he's awards.

You know what I'm doing. What are you doing? What am I doing? Tell me a little bit about how, a little bit of how crazy this business. Because just 16 years ago, you launched Hot in Cleveland. Yeah. And it was a huge success. Yes.

I mean, thank you, yes. And not me. It's 150 people. Well, no, I mean, I don't think, we don't, and we never do anything alone in this business. There is no way to do it alone. Everybody has their gifts that they bring in and you make this big, beautiful stew. Yeah. But what are you finding this?

challenges now? Because we've tried to launch a show and hopefully we're still trying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but it's, it's so challenging. Yeah. Like how, I think it, you know, what do you find in the biggest challenge? It's, I think that the actual business has evolved. And I think it's, the challenge for me now is that there, you know, when you're sitting outside the business, you see all of these new streamers. You see all of these places for content. And I think it's, it's, the challenge for And you think there's going to be so many opportunities. And there is probably too much. But, you know, I think that.

But that content is also really, I can only, I was at Food Network for seven or eight years. That's not the same network that I was on when I launched in 2015. It looks nothing like the network that I was on where they had these great ITKs, which are in the kitchens, these stand and stirs, where you learn how to cook. there was minimal productions about, you know, competition. Competition shows are great. I like game shows and competition shows. But when that's all it is and you don't get what most people went to Food Network for.

And all of the content, no money is going into it. Like there's no money that actually goes into the content that these billionaires who run these companies and merge them all together aren't spending any money on content. It's like how do you build a car without the people on the line? How do you build a network without people that make your shows? I don't, and giving them, I don't understand how it's going to work anymore. You know, it's just what you just said. It is an example of how complex the business is. Because, you know, there are certain executives that I think were better at it.

And have an artistic viewpoint. And we'll fight for something that they're passionate about. And I think when we stop fighting for the shows that we're passionate about and we start making business decisions about shows, I think that that's when we don't make shows that retain an audience that are groundbreaking. I still think there are groundbreaking shows. I'm watching something that I think is, I don't know if you've watched Half Man on Netflix, which is so interesting and compelling. It was the same guy that did Baby Raneer. I don't know if you ever. I never saw that either.

This is what's on TV at my house, bird TV, so the cats can watch the birds. Oh, well, that's nice. That's what, that's on, and I'm usually reading. Half the networks right now should air that. I'm telling you, the cats love it. Right? And if you can get that audience. Yeah.

I think it's all. But at the end of the day, I think there's really just so many things that go into it. And I think that. Do you think that the attention span has minimized a lot because of, like, TikTok and, and what you're getting online. And aren't we all kind of guilty of it? Do you sit with your phone while you're watching TV? Too much.

That's why I've decided I'm going to read more books this year because I want to like just... Wolfie and Drea, his wife and I, during the pandemic, we spent the going through the entire Marvel universe. And he did research on what movies should come first, not what movie came out first, but how it goes in succession so that you can watch the whole process happen all the way until, you know,

the click happens. Yeah. So, but he would get so mad at me because sometimes, or we'll watch Squid Game and I'll be like, I have to be on the phone and see what happens. Yeah. And I'll go to the front, to the back of a book because mom, get off your phone. Just enjoy the program. We aren't living in the moment. I can't because it makes me crazy.

Yeah. And I want to see, who is that actor? Who is that? I have to shove my phone somewhere else so that I can actually sit and enjoy something now. Or watch something with Wolfie, so he makes me do it. Half of my youth was spent changing the channel for my family. Yes. Or we're waiting for the ads so you run to the bathroom pee and come back.

Or hold the antenna. Yes. The bunny ears. Yes. And I think that we are overloaded. When we were kids, I know you're younger than me, but we had three channels. We had pretty much, but we had three channels, not even four, not even Fox. And then it came Fox.

And then it came whatever box that we had that had porn. that was squigglyed out. I didn't have that TV. You did? It was on like Cinemax. It was one of those things. No, it was called On TV. I don't remember when HBO came out.

Did you have On TV? You never had On TV. Uh-uh. Their whole thing was, well, it's on U.HF? No, no, you had to have the box. You had to have the box for on TV. Yeah.

And then my friend Brian Smith, sorry, Brian, we'd all go over to his house and see if we could watch the little bit of porn that you could gather. Well, it's squiggly. Oh, my God. And here I'm like,

I knew I was gay then. I was learning... It's doing nothing for you. No. I'm learning cursive so I could make a capital G so I can write gay. That was my life as a kid. What are we going to do, Todd?

What are we going to do about the state of this business? I mean, I've started Valerie's place because I want to have a place to... I need to be creative. And I think that it's such a good idea. And Mark, your manager called me. I said, what now? I didn't say that.

Mark, please don't kill me. He loves it. I love Mark, but I'm also still a little scared. He'll punish me for something. No, he won't. He was right there with you. Everybody's scared of Mark. But I said, I didn't know what he was calling for because I know that I...

You thought you did something wrong. What did I do? Something wrong. And he said, have you seen Valerie's place? And I said, yes. And I said, I'm kind of jealous. Because I think it is the way... And I told these guys.

I said, I think it's... Starting your own digital platform. To do content. And you can target fans, because I think we have to be... be more targeted because not everybody's sitting in a room watching the finale of MASH anymore. You're watching several things. And so that just is the world. So we have to, we have to change with the world. But we still have to make great things. What about how do you feel about AI? It scares the hell out of me. It does. Yeah. I don't, I think there needs, at a certain point,

we have to have regulation. Yeah. I hope they can. And we actually, it's funny that we have a show that's tackling that exact thing in a scripted form because we think that it's, it can be very dangerous. It can. But also very helpful. It's very helpful as well, but I don't, I don't, I've heard some actors come out and say, you know, you just have to get on the train because it's going to be here anyway. I don't agree with that. I mean, I don't know.

And if it does happen this way, like in the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Yeah. What is that name? Well. He's the robot and the computers takeover? Terminator. Oh, God. I'm like running man?

No, Terminator. So, I mean, I don't, if Terminator, I don't think. Please don't write trailers. in a world where he's a robot. Isn't he some sort of robot? You know, he was like a cyborg geek. I'd be back. Yeah.

Anyway, I mean, I don't believe that AI is going to do that to us. Well, he was a Terminator, wasn't he? That's this thing. He was a Terminator. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but he fell in love with the kid and he protected the kids. Yes. You know, the best thing, nicest thing.

But couldn't it would be nice if they could point all of AI to figure out, like. How to feed people? How to feed people, how to beat cancer, how to time the lights in Burbank. Right. There's so many things. Right. As opposed to... How to get a permit?

Yeah. Couldn't AI help you get to... Or how to vote? You know? Make it easier to register your driver's license or make it easier to get a passport. You know, I don't know. Because those things take... Anyway.

Yes. Okay. Anyway, so AI necessary evil, you know, and I think that... But I don't think that means that we don't regulate it and we don't protect ourselves as human beings, too. Because I think the human factor about art is it. it. Like, I don't believe that machines can make art. Machines can't cry. Machines can't give you. You can feel something when you're watching something that a machine might have made because I will watch cat videos and I'm like, please don't be AI. Please don't be AI. I'll fuck. It's AI. I know. I'm so

pissed. So you can feel something, but that's not art. It's like you you have to. And a human being must create. We have to use that side of our brain. So I just, you're taking something away, just like schools took art and music and drama and all those things out of the schools. You can't just study for, you know, I'm just, I'm so frustrated because I don't know how to get back the art to people that we need. That's the way our brain rests. That's the way our brain feels like free. You can't take that away from people. get off my lawny about it all lately, too. What do you mean?

You know, like, you kids should just enjoy the museum, you know, not be on your phone at the museum. Yes, yes. But I've got to believe that art will persevere. Art will prevail. Unlike what some young actors say, ballet and dance are incredibly important. Opera is incredibly important. We just lost a great this year in opera who sang, oh God,

what's the Mozart? It sang it like nobody's ever sung it before. Oh, it's right. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different.

Locked in. Loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo.

So, are you ready to? Ready to talk to fans? Spotify advertising. You're among fans. I think it was my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. I knew you'd go there. At least, something to do with that. Anyway.

Yes, but yes, I agree. I think art is too important to just, you know. Like, you, anyway. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm going to pause. Yes, please.

I'm going to pause because I think this has been a really fun conversation. I love sitting, I mean, we sit and we have dinner together, but this is kind of like a little bit more fun letting. It is. It is. I kind of like, no people are listening to this. It is. Also, like, let's take a break and make sure this is interesting.

Well, then let's do that because the more interesting will be the full reveal, only for members of Valerie's Place. And you can go to Valerie's Place.com and you can sign up to become a member. So when you go to Valerie's Place to sign up for, to become a subscriber, if you want to hear more and you want to be able to ask questions, head over to Valerie's Place.com. I said that and sign up. And for just $2 a month, you will get to hear the full review.

and you will also get early access to all of these podcasts, all the entire podcast. So I completely screwed that up, but you guys know the drill, right? Head over to valerriesplace.com. Sign up for just $2. You can get all of this. And more Todd. So stay tuned for the full reveal.

I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments. I do, you are wondering, where's my shell? This is so dang delicious.

Smells divine. That's a jalapeno pauper. Oh my God. It's so good. Yes, I'm back, and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie, what are we reheating today? Welcome to Nal Vow's cooking. Guess what we're going to make right now.

We're alive. Hi, everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's place. That's where you can see our book group, this podcast. That's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you.

I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing. That's how good it is. So head to Valerie'splace.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members, and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time.