Getting Naked: The Podcast - Return of the Mack | Valerie Bertinelli | Mackenzie Phillips

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

She's back. In Part 2 of one of the most requested conversations in Getting Naked history, Valerie and Mackenzie Phillips pick up right where they left off — and go even deeper. They begin with listener voicemails, including questions about working together again and about Mackenzie's memoir High on Arrival — a book Mackenzie is clear about: it's not a book about incest. It's a memoir. A full life, on the page, with honesty and courage. From there, the conversation moves into some of the most raw and important territory the podcast has ever covered: the 90-day trauma program that changed Mackenzie's life, the letter she received at work years after the book came out that confirmed what she had always had a knowing about, and the EMDR therapy that finally helped both women begin to process what had happened to them. They talk about carrying someone else's shame, about forgiving a father on his deathbed not for him but for herself, and about what recovery actually means — for drugs, for trauma, for survival of any kind.They also talk about grief — the recent loss of Mackenzie's dearest friend Marissa, who died four weeks after being diagnosed with anaplastic thyroid cancer. About discovering in your 60s that you're actually an introvert. About celibacy, boundaries, and the radical act of caring for yourself.And they end where all the best conversations end: with two women who have known each other for over 50 years, sitting across from each other for the first time, saying I love you and meaning every word.In the Full Reveal — exclusively for Valerie's Place members — they get into the naked truth about recovery: what it really takes, the many paths to the top of the mountain, and why, as Gabor Maté says, the question is never "why the drugs" but always "why the pain."📅 September 18th at 1pm ET — Live After-Show with Mackenzie Phillips. Submit your questions and join live. Available to all paid members only on Valerie's Place.

Hi, before we begin this episode, I do want you to know that it includes discussion of sexual trauma, which may be difficult to hear. So please take care of yourself as you listen, whether that means taking a break or skipping this episode and or reaching out to someone that you trust for support. Thanks. Hi, welcome to Getting Naked, the podcast. Okay, so if you saw part one, you are here for part two, and you are going to absolutely love this part. We had a beautiful conversation. And if you haven't seen Part 1,

please go back and watch it because you don't want to miss it. You're going to love this woman as much as I love her. She's my sister from another mister. I say that. I don't know. It seems silly, but I just, I've known her for over 50 years,

and she's just part of me. Anyway, stay tuned for McKenzie Phillips. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. Love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments.

I swear I do. You are wondering, where's my show? This is so dang delicious. Smells divine. That's a jalapeno popper. Oh my god. It's so good! Yes, I'm back and I am cooking for all of you.

All right, Sophie, what are we reheating today? Welcome to Now Vow's Cooking. Guess what we're gonna make right now. We're alive, hi everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's place. That's where you can see. our book group, this podcast.

That's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing. That's how good it is. So head to Valerie'splace.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members, and I can't thank you enough.

It's happy time. Hi. Welcome to Getting Naked the podcast. Before we start getting into anything, I just want to ask you guys to stick around for the full reveal. That is a little special part of our podcast. that is only for viewers of Valerie's Place. So if you would like to become a member of Valerie's Place,

head on over to Valerie's Place.com and sign up. And then you can get full access to the podcast early. You can get full access to the full reveal. And you can even call in and leave us a question, which we are going to start today's episode with. But first I want to introduce for Part 2, my lovely guest. This is by far the guest that we have asked. Please, please, please have her on.

We want to see Mac. We want to see Mac. And she's here. I'm here. You are here. So everybody, please welcome Mackenzie Phillips. Yay. This is very special two-part episode because, and I'm sure we could stretch it into three,

but we're going to try and not talk your ears off. Now, in the last episode, we were finishing up with viewers' questions, and then I wanted to get into your trauma therapy because you explain this a little bit to me, and it's kind of remarkable because it was 90 days. But before we get into that, because we... We'll never get to viewers' questions. Let me just get a few more out there, and then we'll get into stuff that will take us away from all of this. Hi, Valerie. It's Nishon.

I have a question for you and McKenzie Phillips. I was wondering if you would ever work together on another project. I certainly hope so, because I would love to see you guys work together again. And I hope you both have a wonderful day. Oh, God bless you. Thank you. Thank you so much. So everyone's like we should do something again. I think there's something about we are nostalgia.

We've been in people's lives for 50 years. And I've got to tell you. During their childhoods and what, go ahead. Well, so many people, obviously so many people come up to you and say, look, my mom was a single mom. We were not represented anywhere. And you guys made us feel like we were normal. Because no one in that day and age, this is the mid to late 70s, there were divorces happening. I mean, it wasn't, I mean, remember, it wasn't until the 70s that women were actually allowed to have credit cards.

Yes. Okay. That's how insane this can get under patriarchy. And seeing a woman, a mother with children, divorced wasn't common. And they was a common. Having sex. Oh, yeah. The mother having sex.

Yeah. And then also the daughters. Then the daughters start having sex. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was so, I mean, thank you, Norman for pushing the envelope and pushing the envelope and, you know, justice warrior and women's rights and all the Norman things. Yeah. But yeah, those are two questions we got.

Yeah. And I mean, obviously, we would love to work together again. Totally. It's just this business is really, I don't even recognize. I recognize it. Honestly. You know, I am... Even as far back, and you didn't do it that long ago.

Like, when did you do Orange as the New Black? Like eight years ago? Yeah. It's changed dramatically since then. I hate self-tapping. Oh, God. I've never done it. And I don't want to do it.

Please let me come in. Let me come in in person and... Do they let you come in? I haven't been on an audition. I can't get an audition. No, I can get self-tape auditions. I can't get any auditions. I've been telling my...

manager, let me let just a guest shot on a TV show anywhere. What are the TV shows out right now? Because honestly, the only thing in my house is Bird TV for the cats. But I, I can't get an audition. I get few and far between and their day players. Wow. Yeah. And I hate self-taping. And my son Shane has to read with me and he really hates it. He's like, oh my God, no. Mom, please. There's a question for Mac about her book. Michelle from Phoenixville, Pennsylvania, and I'm excited about Faith Ford and McKenzie Phillips. Faith was on the podcast. I have a question for McKenzie. I read her book High on Arrival, and I just wanted to say how brave I think she is for writing that book.

You know, I just... I'm in awe of her and she's doing right now to help people with similar problems and I just wanted to give her that compliment because

it was a strong strong book that's so lovely yeah it was how hard was that to write well this this this brings something up. Okay. You know how we try to protect the perpetrator? Oh, God. Yeah, I purposely did not name mine. And I, and you know how you have a knowing? One has a knowing, right?

And yet it's sort of vague, but there's a knowing. So at 17, in my book, when I woke up and the thing with the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing with the thing. I was like, oh my God. And, you know, I woke up out of a blackout with my father on top of me, right? And God is good because I immediately went back into a blackout. And yet I had a knowing from that day forward that that didn't start there. That didn't start there. And once we get into talk... And before that, you did not have a knowing of that.

I always had some sort of knowing. something that's not feeling right. Yeah. You know, I tried so hard to protect my father in that book. You really did. And you wrote it so beautifully. And I don't want to talk long, but I just, I just, you need the kudos for how you gently arrived at the subject, how you presented the subject, and how you were protective to a certain,

because you were both incredibly high. But that doesn't mean it's, it doesn't absolve his behavior. That's right. I learned from my appearance on Oprah and my book that because I was calling it consensual, because I was trying to protect him. There is no such thing as consent

between a parent and a child. The power differential is too great. Yes. Right? So then, okay, fast-post. forward, I have this knowing, right? I'm sitting in my office at Breathe Life Healing Center, the treatment center that I worked at for 10 years. I don't. Don't left that off. Okay. Because that's an incredibly important thing that you did. And that, that, like you worked there a long time and you

helped lots of people. I worked in the behavioral health drug and alcohol treatment field, mental health field for 15 years. Yes. I have recently allowed myself to not be a part of the grind anymore. Yeah. And it's emotionally exhausting. I was burnt out. I was crispy. I was burn out. Yeah. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments. I swear I do. You are wondering, where's my show? This is so dang delicious. Smells divine. That's a jalapeno popper. Oh my god.

It's so good. Yes, I'm back. I'm back. and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie, what are we reheating today? Welcome to Nal Vows cooking. Guess what we're gonna make right now. We're alive, hi everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's Place. That's where you can see our book group, this podcast.

That's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing. That's how good it is. So head to Valerie's Place.com and go ahead and sign up.

You guys are the original members, and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time. So I'm sitting in my office. You know, I'm the vice president of referral relations. And, you know, I mean, I, you know, it's an executive level working there, but also still working with clients. And Pablo, love Pablo.

Head of HR comes in. And he says, oh, you got a letter. And I said, oh, wow, it's probably fan mail because, you know, I would get fan mail there. And I won't go into too much detail. but it was from one of the most credible sources you could ever know of, of a family friend saying that their husband observed something horrific when I was nine. And, you know, and I said, Jeffrey, my brother, you know, I want to tell you, He said, I don't want to know. Nobody wants to know. Nobody wants to know.

You know, so I'm on my own. Again, on my own, right? You know what that's like, you're like, I'm on my own in this. Nobody believes me. I'm on my own. I carried my secret for decades. Yeah. Not telling a soul. Yeah. Well, see, and here's the thing, is that I told the people that said that I was lying back then. They already knew. But I got this letter. Wait, what did that do to you? Because I can't imagine if I got up the nerve to actually say something. And then that, I don't, I think that's probably part

of me why I didn't want to say something. Well, there's an element of protecting the legacy of the mamas and the papas. I can separate the man from the music. I know that this was like the perfect storm of drugs and alcohol and untreated mental health. My dad was a not well man.

But I got this letter and I'm sitting there reading it and it was like shocking, shocking the content. And this woman said, I'm so sorry I didn't come forward to support you while you were on Oprah. I was afraid. I didn't know what to do, but here's what happened. And I'm sitting there and I'm like numb. The validation alone. Did that the validation ever hit you? Was it more like numbness? I was numb. And so then the brilliant clinical director

Kathleen Murphy is like a magical unicorn therapist. I was walking by my office and I said Kathleen, Kathleen, Kathleen, come sit here, I need you to read this for me. And I handed it to her and she sat in the chair in my office and she went oh my god, Mac! And tears started pouring down her face. I could feel nothing. I just sat, I could feel it now.

Yeah, yeah. But she said, Mac, honey, it's time. It's time for you to dig even deeper. Fuck. It's time because now that you have this, you had a knowing all along, but now you have proof.

Of being groomed from a very young age, right? And so I went to a place in Florida. This is not a commercial. It's called the guest house in Ocala, Florida. It's actually run by this incredible trauma therapist called Judy Crane. And I stayed there for 90 days. Live there. I lived at the guest house.

It wasn't just like a guest house like next to a house. It's a facility but in a homey way? Oh, yeah. I mean like, yeah, like super fancy-ish. And I saw a therapist. I saw an embodiment therapist. I saw... What's an embodiment therapist?

To help you live back in your body again. To help you get back into your body. To help you, I saw it there. But you do spend a lot of time just kind of like, oof, let me just, I don't want to be here. Now most of the time that we were working, not most, a lot of the time in my younger years, I was watching myself from out here.

Yeah, yeah. You? Yeah, that's what it felt like. Yeah, like there was a CCTV camera. Yeah. And I could see myself doing things. Yeah. But it's not like dissociated.

of identity disorder. It's just... You're there. You're in the moment. You're not associating. But you're watching from out here. Right. Yeah.

So I had a therapist who was helping me remember the truth of who I really am. I had a therapist working on me with sexual trauma. I had, you know, I had EMDR. What did you think of EMDR? I had done EMDR before. You had. Do you use the light or the feelers? Yeah, I love the Zitz, Zit, Zit, Z.

Wow. And I had done EMDR before on this one. very, very specific memory. Like, it was like I'd be driving down the street and it'd be like a video loop in my head. And I'm like, no, not again. No, please God, not again. And so I was able to now I can see that now. And I'm like, oh yeah, that happened. Same. Crazy.

It's like I never even was able to say the words or like, but yet I existed with this person in my life and I didn't want it. I mean, it's like, it's interesting how once you go through this, For me, and it might be different with anybody else, but for me, the EMDR kind of settled my brain down in a way to let me talk through it. The emotions were still all there because I woke up from it, although you don't go out. No. But I felt like I woke up from a dream that was very real. and I opened my eyes for the first time in like 45 minutes an hour

and just like just gushes of water just came out. So I was emotional, but it was clinically and analytical. Yeah. So my brain knew what to do with it without storing it back into my emotions. I don't know if I'm explaining it correctly, but that's what happened for me. Well, I think I've heard people talk about it as that it shift. It shifts where it lives. Yes.

You know. Yeah, it doesn't shift into shame and fear any longer. It's just like, well, fuck. That happened. Look, how many people are walking around carrying somebody else's shame? Yes. They're carrying the, I carried the shame of the shameless. Yes.

Yes. Someone without shame. And I carried the shame. Right. You took that on. It was me. I was bad, you know. Right.

And I had a session where, you know, I had this, like, beanbag pillow, and they were like, give the shame back. And I was just throwing the shame back. Like, give it, take it. Take your fucking shame back, you asshole. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's something about the physicality of it as well. I have these exercises that I haven't done in a long time, but I could stand to do them.

As a therapist gave me was keeping a few spiritual books next to you and writing out. what, like, just not even, like, it doesn't have to be legible to anybody, just the anger, and then screaming the anger, and then hitting a pillow or throwing the pillow and hitting it and hitting it. I would do it so, and this is before my EMDR, so I thought this is how I'll get it out. Right. And I, like, would get so exhausted and tired, and I fucking hated this exercise, because I didn't feel like it was getting anywhere. And then you'd open a book, and inevitably, like, there would be a quote in a book that I'd be like, oh, that worked. Yeah. You know, so, I mean, it does work spiritually, but emotionally it didn't get it all out until I was able to separate the emotions from the analytical.

Amazing. With EMDR. And there's still some trauma that I've been through just even recently in the last few years that I could stand to go back to my EMDR therapist, but I'm so tired. It's so emotionally exhausting. I'm like, you know what, I'm okay right now. If it gets any worse. If it gets any worse, I know where to go. But how do you feel about, like, what do you do with any?

Like, I was just meditating on my bed the other day because I was feeling so much grief. And I'm like, where is this coming from? Tell me where this grief is coming from. Please, universe, God, whoever, please tell me where this is coming from and what I can do with it. You know, how am I supposed to move through this? I don't like this feeling.

I don't want to feel this way anymore. And I was able to cry for the first time in a long time again. I haven't cried, really cried, cried for a couple years. I just kind of, I cried out. Last week. You did? Yeah. I cried so much last week.

Why? Do you know what that grief was from? I do. I know exactly what it was from. Do you want to talk about it? My dearest, dear, dear, dearest friend, Marissa was diagnosed with Anna. plastic thyroid cancer and died four weeks later. And the day before I had to go on the road and I saw her and she's like McFly, she called me McFly. It's funniest person you could ever meet.

She said, McFly, you have to go. And she was in the hospital and, you know, and we just looked at each other and we knew. You knew that was the last time you'd see each other. Then Sunday she sent me a video with the Mamas and Papa's California Dream and playing in the background and yeah she died the next day sorry and I just you know I was in a hotel and I was just pacing back and forth in my hotel room with just tears pouring down my face I even went and I stood in the corner of the room and lean my head against the wall and then the tears were going in the filthy carpet um so it's hard for me to cry yeah it's hard for me to cry it has to be something because yeah Pretty traumatic like that.

But something I wanted to say to you that I learned at the guest house is that I was always led to believe that I was like, yeah, yeah, the train monkey girl. I'm actually a tremendously private person. Yeah. I really am. I really am. Yes. Like I like to lay around and read books and I like to have my kitties. And if I have to go out.

You're an introvert. Yeah. As am I. I mean, we can turn it on for an audience, but it's exhausting. An extroverted introvert. Yeah, same. Yeah. And I learned that about myself.

And did that come as a shock to you? Absolutely. Wow. Because I've always known I'm an introvert. I've always known I've been shy. And I just like buck it up, you know, and do what I have to do. And then I go home and I, you know, I'm exhausted. But you always, like you thought you were an extrovert.

because of the business you were in? I didn't really think about it. Or you didn't put labels on it. I kind of figured out that because, you know, especially in working in treatment, you give so much all day long and you take in so much all day long. Other people's trauma. Yes. And you have to learn how to like spray Teflon on so that it doesn't stick. But then I would realize I would get home and I would have no words left.

Yeah. You know? And so in order to get up and do it again the next day, I had to be. alone to recharge, which is, by the way, why, am I going to say this out loud? I have been celibate for 15 years. Wow. Nobody knows this. I'm saying this here. You don't have to cut it out. It's okay. There's nothing wrong with being celibate. Yeah, I'm like, I have had enough sex to last for several lifetimes for several people. And the parts, of me that were injured or wounded, I can care for them myself, you know?

Yeah. And, you know, I don't date. I don't, I don't. Yeah. No, I don't. No, I'm really none. Yeah. You know, I have my little friend in the bedside drawer.

But, you know. Nothing wrong with that? Nothing wrong with that. Mm-hmm. But, you know, I, and you know, I had to tell you. I've got through periods of celibacy. Like, I've been celibate for, I guess, almost two years now. It doesn't bother me.

It's right after the book came out on arrival. I just, I'm done. I'm done. I'm just done. What's that tour like for you? Well. The book is so immensely personal. And, I mean, the book alone is traumatic.

even though it was written so beautifully. And if you haven't read it, I highly recommend you go get it for any kind of trauma, recovery, what you're going through. I just think those stories speak to so many people. There are so many people out there walking around with trauma, as we have said. I want to say this, though. It's not a book about incest. No.

It's just not. No. It's a memoir. It's so much bigger than that. It's just, yeah. I mean, I think maybe there are 12 pages about that. But it's just those are the pieces that people. like shocked by.

Right. Well, the tour... But I think they would be shocked by a lot of shit that's going on in this world. Yeah. Because nobody wants to know. They're like,

oh, that doesn't happen. That doesn't happen. Oh, I've lived my life with blinders on it. Yeah. The tour was interesting because Simon and Schuster love them.

Thank you. You know, I was on... Did you do speaking tours? Did you just go and do... I'm going to get there. Okay. I was on Oprah the day the book hit the stands.

Right? And it was... like enormous and then you know I would see the cover of the New York Post McKenzie's 10-year affair with her father. What the fuck is wrong with people seriously? Well I mean I kind of couched it that way in a weird way because I was trying to protect him and I didn't know people are smarter than that I mean you can see that that's what you're trying to do but it was it was it was clickbait it was

total clickbait and so there were all these huge book signings set up, which because of the controversy, because it was everywhere, we decided not to do them. Okay. And we just stuck to... It would have been emotionally devastatingly difficult. And it also could have been just people saying horrible things. Yeah. You know, which is the people, they say it on the Internet because they can be anonymous.

And shame on you, by the way. Shame on you. It's just such a shameful thing to do is just attack people behind a computer. And so it was a lot of television, a lot of early morning TV, like the first four hours, one segment of each hour of the Today Show, you know, and it just... There's such good people there, though. I mean, all those morning shows, they're just really terrific people that are so kind and gentle and... And then, you know, a lot of HLN, Larry, why can I remember his name? Larry King!

Larry! Oh, Larry! That's right, because it was 15 years ago. Wow, wow, wow, wow. He said, he goes, so we're here. to talk about your book, high on anxiety. And I said, you mean Mel Brooks Virgin? Anxiety.

I said, no. It's actually called high on arrival. And he said, of course, of course, of course. High on anxiety. I'm high on anxiety all the time. I have such terrible anxiety. Look at me. I'm like messing with discord.

I know, yeah, I know. But I have started to reframe anxiety. Into creativity. Well, into excitement. because anxiety and excitement, like looking forward to something, are physically the same. They create the same physicality that happens in your body. But as does danger. Yes.

They're all very similar. This is where discernment comes in. Yes. I love talking about discernment. I love it. It's so important. It is because all of these feelings feel the same in our body. Fear, anxiety, joy.

They feel the same. It's what our brain is discernibly telling that feeling what it is. So when I'm feeling anxiety, I will personalize it. When I'm feeling anxiety, I'm like, okay, I hear you. You're anxious about something. Anxiety is because it's fear of the unknown. You don't know what's going to happen. But how about this?

How about if you reframe it, bow? Yes, I talk to myself in my head. Meet you constantly. Out loud, too. Yes. How do you, I do say, when I'm alone, I do talk out loud. Reframe it to yourself and say, what if this means you're looking forward to this experience?

You're not scared or anxious about it. How about you look forward to it? And I can pretty much talk myself into the anxiety then becoming excitement. How hard is it to look forward to stuff? Very. So hard. It's so very hard. You say yes.

You have to talk yourself. And then I'm like, fuck, why did I say yes? Why? Like Shane said, Mom. I know. And then when you're done with the experience, right? You had a great time. That was great.

Change says, Mom, you have to stop saying yes. You have to just stop. Your son's not wrong. He's awesome. Yeah. He's amazing. But, yeah, it changed a lot for me after Highland Arrival came out because my whole family. Yeah, you had a very difficult time, didn't you?

Eight years. Eight years they didn't speak to you. Yeah. I'm so sorry. I said to them, I said, you know what? go ahead drop me what about your nephew what about Shane you know but hey hey we're all cool now right we are we are we've come to the other side of it okay I'm so glad yeah did you guys have a come to Jesus moment did you did you slowly start talking to one another again slowly yeah

I mean China what did you start talking to first China okay China's the one who supported me China's the one who said I already knew you know she's said she felt like a piano had been dropped on her head she went on Oprah she was very supportive of me I call her chinkoa um chenquois is amazing she knows how much I love her and Biju you know Biju just i mean Biju just got another kidney she had a kidney transplant and then she went into rejection oh no and she just maybe uh two months ago had another kidney transplant she has a 12 year old daughter. Oh, God. So she's doing amazing. She's

incredible. Good, good, good. But yeah, family is a very complicated thing. And, you know, you have one father, three mothers, five kids. That is a challenge. Yeah. I... You didn't, you had like...

No, I had my two parents, even though many times my brothers and I would say they shouldn't be married. But then near the end, my dad really stepped up to the plate and he really became the caretaker. that he needed to be, that my mom was the entire time. Andy and Nancy. Yeah.

And I still can't believe that my dad died first. All of us were like, I cannot believe that pop stuff. It's been 10 years. Wow. I can't believe it's been 10 years. Anyway. I love your mom. Yeah.

Every year on this certain day, you know, Facebook memories, they'll come up with a message from Nancy about cats. Yeah. Yes. She's the one that got me to love cats. It's because of her that I do. Yeah. Mom just only passed seven years.

go. Yeah. So, um, my mom 10. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. We're getting old, honey. We are getting better. We are getting better. I'm telling you, what would you do if you were able to? I think about the, I think about the opposite of this. I think about when I, when I'm faced with the decision, what will my 80-year-old self-thinking? You know, did you, you know, did you chicken out or did you go for it, you know? And chicken out is, that's kind of like reframe, that's framing it in a negative way, but I shouldn't. I wouldn't like, shouldn't some mind fucked. It's all, your language is so important. Yes. How you speak to yourself.

But I, like, would my 80-year-old self be like, happy I did this? Or would they, you know, whatever. So for the experience, even if the experience turned out terrible. At least I've had the experience and then I learn through it. Or, but what do you think if we were able to sit on a cloud somewhere and go back and God put us right in front of us in, there were her. Herschel hall or in the school room where we were together, what do you think we'd be gabbing about saying, look at us.

Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaiaia and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll.

So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. From up there, we did not know how beautiful we were. True. We didn't understand how special we both were. Not because we were actors. No, everybody is special. But as a human being, how special.

Oh, I wish I could tell her just how beautiful she is inside now. and I wish I could tell her, stay away from your dad. Yeah. Don't do drugs. Yeah. You know, people always ask you, you know, what is the one thing you would say to your younger self? Don't do drugs. Yeah, absolutely.

And people always say, well, if you could go back and you could like just remove an experience from your life, which one would it be and would you do it? And I'd say, I don't even have to think about that. I would remove nothing. Nothing, nothing, nothing. It's just going through my head as well. Because if I were to do that, I might not be who I am. I might not be sitting here with you right now. You know, Shane might not be Shane.

Everything. Every little butterfly wing flap changes everything. Every different sliding door you go through changes everything. We are here by way of everywhere we've been. I never want to live through any of the abuse that I live through in my whole life ever again. obviously I want to learn from it but I don't and I can say that now

because of all the therapy I don't regret it I'm angry that it happened yes yes and we should be angry at who I became not because of it because it's not that that made me the person I am today

it's me my will my strength my determination my will to be the best person I can be it's that that that gave me who I am today. That experience. I don't know how to explain this in a way that is negating the experience and how God-awful a lot of it was, all of it was. I'm thinking of,

because there's levels of the abuse. Yes, yes. There's emotional abuse. There's trust abuse. There's manipulation. There's sexual abuse. There's betrayal. There's like giving your trust to the wrong person. There's all those things that. But I'm glad I experienced it, though, because I wouldn't know how bright the other side is. It would just be like, oh, I have a blessed, you know, I wouldn't even know if I had such a blessed life. Because I would think, well, that's what life is like. But knowing how dark life can be, I know how beautiful life is. And then that's, then that makes me think of all of the children who are growing up in trauma.

You know, the fatherless children, the motherless children, the children who don't have enough food, the children who turn to drugs, the children who turn to violence. But those children, we all started out pure and beautiful and perfect and circumstance, whether it be economical, whether it be social, whether it be whatever it is. That's like the branches on a tree, right? Like this, oh, here, okay, so I don't have this. so I need to go this way to get that. Yeah, reaching for oxygen and sun as we grow.

Or reaching for the next thing that's going to keep me alive. Right. Not necessarily oxygen and sun. And so that's what I think about a lot, especially when I do... And that's, you make a lot of trauma choices by what's going to keep me alive. I mean, I know that I put up with behavior that I would not put up with today. I put up with behavior just two years ago that I would not. not absolutely put up with today because I was just trying to survive emotional abuse.

Yes. So I think you make decisions based on we are all human beings that are just here to survive the best of our ability. And I think we make decisions in that. We're all just walking each other home. Yeah. You know, and a lot of. And sometimes you walk on with the wrong person.

That's right. I do a lot of speaking. You do. I do. Thank you. I have a speaker's agent kind of bureau thing, and so I do travel a lot. It's not like an AA circuit speaker where, you know, you're going, it's more of a professional speaker. So I do that a lot.

I'm glad you do. Do you find that fulfilling? Like, for me, when I was doing the book tour, it took a lot of out of me, but it also kind of like solidified all of these things I'm believing about myself again. Yes. I mean, I talk about intergenerational trauma. I talk about sexual abuse. I talk about my life. And then I can step back a little bit clinically and say, when this happens, you know, to this type of person, this might happen.

But if this might happen, and here's what happened to me when that happened. But yeah, I just go out and tell my story. And, you know, and it's beautiful. And I love it. You're saving a lot of people. They're saving me. Yeah. I love it.

you. I love you too. Okay, we're going to come back for, I don't know what else more we can talk about, but there is a lot. I have a lot of questions here, but we're going to save that for the full reveal. So if you are a Valley's Place member, you will be able to watch the full reveal. You'll also be able to get the podcast before anybody else gets it. But you have to go to Valer'splace.com and sign up. So come on back for the full reveal. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into. The chicken breast. I love the flavor of maple syrup,

especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments. I swear I do. You are wondering, where's my show? This is so dang delicious. Smells divine. That's a jalapeno popper. Oh my god.

It's so good! Yes, I'm back and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie, what are we reheating today? Welcome to Now Vow's Cooking. Guess what we're gonna make right now. We're alive, hi everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's Place.

That's where you can see our book group, this podcast. That's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing with how good it is. So head to Valerysplace.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time. Football is back. Every game, every weekend, Draft King's Sportsbook has you covered. Every snap matters. Every comeback can shift the game and every fourth quarter moment can change everything. Follow the action with Draft Kings, the number one sports book for live betting.

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Please play responsibly. Number one sportsbook for live betting based on available live market data. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siyaya and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some of the worst. questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out.

Somehow, things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem.