Getting Naked: The Podcast - The Zen of Nobody Caring | Valerie Bertinelli | Mackenzie Phillips | Tetyana Denford

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

Valerie's guest this week is Tetyana Denford, the writer and author behind the "nobody cares" movement that's taken over Instagram — and quickly took over Valerie's algorithm too. Valerie is joined by co-host Mackenzie Phillips for this one, and together they dig into Tetyana's philosophy, which sounds blunt at first but is really a permission slip: stop performing, stop bracing for judgment that mostly isn't coming, and get comfortable with being a little uncomfortable. The conversation covers body image at different ages, Instagram as a tool versus Instagram as a trap, giving your insecurities a name (meet Steve), and Tetyana's five-word mantra for anyone drowning in comparison: "you are not an algorithm."Members get the full reveal, where Tetyana goes even deeper on that mantra, opens up about chasing likes versus staying human, and shares some genuinely exciting news — a new agent at CAA and a headline speaking slot at a major 2027 media festival. Plus, the story of how she became a "safe space" for total strangers, and what it takes to hold that space without losing herself.Follow Tetyana on Instagram @tetyanawrites for more.

This episode is brought to you by Animals. How far would you go when someone threatens everyone you love? Who can you trust? From Academy Award winner Ben Affleck. Animals stars Affleck, Carrie Washington, Jillian Anderson, and Stephen Young. When a Los Angeles mayoral candidate's son is kidnapped, he and his wife are pulled into a web of deception, forced to make choices that could tear their world apart. Watch Animals only on Netflix on October 9th.

rated R. Hi, thanks for showing up for getting naked the podcast. We have a really special guest today. I know I say that about everybody, but all my guests are special. I love them. And I fell in love with this woman after she ended up in my algorithm. And I'm so glad she did because some stuff doesn't, is not so great that ends in my algorithm. But she was a huge, like immediately follow. I pressed follow immediately. And a lot of other people are too because she started a whole movement. And I want to talk about it with her. So stay tuned for Tatiana Denver. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was.

Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments. I swear I do. You are wondering, where's my show? This is so dang delicious. Smells divine.

That's a jalapeno popper. Oh my God. It's so good. Yes, I'm back, and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie. What are we reheating to do? day. Welcome to Nal Vows Cooking. Guess what we're gonna make right now? We're alive. Hi, everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's Place. That's where you can see our book group, this podcast. That's where you can go for all the

cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing with how good it is. So head to Valerie's Place.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time. Hey, hi, hi everyone. Welcome to Valerie's Place. Hey, before we get started, I just want to let you know that if you want to be a part of the big reveal, or sorry, the full reveal, you have to go to Valorysplace.com and become a member. If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, you will still get this episode, but there is a little part of the big reveal that you will not be able to see because that's just for Valerie's Place members. So head on over there right now and become a member if you like. If not, okay, just keep watching.

I have a really fun guest today. Now, this is a thing that I love about doing this podcast because it allows me to connect with people that I like, people that I admire, that I respect, that I, that I'm getting to know on the internet. It also allows me to share those people with all of you, which brings me to my guest today. So I actually found Tatiana the way that so many people do on Instagram on her account, which is surprising to me because Instagram's algorithm can be so fucked up for some of us, but I was lucky to get her into my Instagram feed. And I started following her immediately. she, but I, there's, thankfully, Tettiana does this thing where she doesn't let the beginning reel that she's speaking about go on for too long, because those are all the reels that make me so angry about the internet, but Tettiana does something very special.

She cuts it off in the mid-sentence and says, yeah, nobody cares. And I love that. She is the mind behind the nobody cares philosophy, which sounds cynical at first, but it really isn't. It's actually the ultimate permission slip to stop performing and start living authentically. Tatiana, welcome. Hi. Oh, I love this. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like we're all hanging out and having a nice chat and a coffee.

It feels good. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it feels like because I actually had Mac and I just did a live and we're recording this right after we did the live. So this will be airing next week, which is now for those that are watching now. So Mac decided to join us and be a part of this too, which I kind of love, because she asks really great questions. But before we jump into, nobody cares philosophy, you know what, for the viewers out there that don't follow you yet, because they will after this podcast, tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, gosh, I've been in the media and publishing world for over two decades now. And, you know, I started out actually as a novelist and a freelance writer.

And I've written freelance for fashion magazines in New York City. and I ended up moving to the UK and I did some writing there, but I started kind of really my career started just writing my first novel, and I self-published it. I managed to get a book deal for two books, and I was just, I was doing that, I was doing translation work for the war on Ukraine. So I was doing all the writing all the time everywhere. I just was kind of just, just keeping that going and I knew that one day I would write nonfiction I just wasn't sure how that would happen and you know I just feel like I'm writing every single day now with you know kind of reaching everybody so I've yeah I've been around for a while so I'm so glad you're

I've I've learned on my own skin I've dealt with lots of different personalities I've been to so many events and I have all the stories. So yeah. Yes, you do. Can you tell us about your work that we could access and read because I read all the time and I would love to read what you published? Yeah, so my novels are historical fiction based on. Yes, I love historical fiction. It, you know, it was based on true stories and a family secret that came out. of my own family. And it was World War II era, you know, Eastern Europe. And I was really proud to write them.

I am still very proud of them. There's some of my best work. And they were received very well. It won some awards. It was on a bestseller list on Amazon. So you can get them on Amazon, Barnes & Noble. If we just write in your name, the titles will come up. Yep, Tatiana Denford.

and it's, you know, you can find them at your local libraries, you can get them secondhand, you know, so, yeah, so that was my, kind of, that was my proper beginning, yeah. Are they available on Kind of, that was my proper beginning, yeah. Are they available on? Yes, they are. Yep. Great. Yeah, and, and audiobook as well. So, yeah, so, um, that was a really good, that was a really good challenge for me, because I, I told myself if agents wouldn't take it on, I would self-publish. And, you know, I always pride myself on being the hardest worker in the room. And I did get so many requests for the manuscript.

But at the time, that, you know, genre wasn't selling very well, especially about Eastern Europe. So I said, well, you know what? I'm going to do it myself. So, yeah. That takes a lot of balls, Tatiana. I mean, people do that. It was exhausting. Listen, the publishing world is exhausting anyway.

I can't imagine doing it myself. I just want to get into how I first started seeing you where then nobody cares, which I now have the t-shirt. You can order them through Tatiana's website. Yeah. Go to Tettiana writes on Instagram and you'll be able to watch her. And I literally laugh out loud sometimes. But then not only that, because the way you say nobody cares is just lovely. But this is what you do that freckon amazes me.

I don't know how much research you do or how much you enjoy research because you really get shit done. But then you go into some thing about some, like, that I've never heard of before and how it started. Like how, what makes you think of this stuff? Well, I have been a super nerd my whole life. So I have lots of books about random fun facts and I have notebooks of notes that I take about things that I myself, one. about weird things like on a daily basis. I'm like, oh, I wonder if that exists. Let me find out. So that kind of comes naturally to me. And I will say to anybody, what you see is what you get. But what you see online is exactly who I am in person. I'm the person at dinner parties that's like,

did you know? And my friends will attest to that. I just love being curious. I collect people and facts and stories and that's just that's my jam that's just who i am yeah oh god i love that i would love to just sit down and have coffee with you for real and just talk because i i think staying curious and and always learning is what keeps us alive and i think when we learn new things it does but i also like the way you curated for instance the the reel that you put out on women oh my god it like it moved me to tears like how how do you do you do all all that. I'm so proud of that one because I remember when I first heard the brandy cover of Un Invited. Me too.

An Alanis. I know. And I've been in Alanus Stan forever as most of us kind of around certain ages have. Even as older ones I've been Alanus fan. Yeah. But like I and I love music. I am obsessed with all music. I just love it. It's just you know, so when I heard that, there were just synapses in my brain lighting up. And I just wanted to make something out of it because it felt like an anthem. And then I was like, do you know what? I'm just going to find all the amazing photos and videos of as many women as possible within a 90, you know, within a 90 second real. And I just had to do it. I remember testing it out on myself. and I was like, whoa, this is fun, you know?

And then I tested it out of my kids. My kids are like, oh, my God, that gave me goosebumps. So that's part of like really why I'm doing this in a much bigger way. And it's because I'm offering people not just the dry humor, the ridiculousness that lives on the internet. It's the interruption into something bigger, something that we can just go, oh, I feel something much better than that crap. that I just watched. And so, and occasionally I do drop in more of the long-form stuff, like the mashup of, you know, the videos and pictures of the women,

like sometimes where I go, you know, I've thought about this, how amazing it is that you are listening to me and I'm talking to you, wherever you are in the world, and we live on this planet, the astronomical odds of us existing right now. So occasionally I just want to remind people that that is the, overreaching, that's the message, you know. I absolutely did love that video too. Well, think about intersectionality, right?

I'm a big fan of intersectionality where the three of us have intersected in this room right now. And out of the, you know, this is just by I happen to be here doing something and now I get to meet you and now I get to hear about you and I don't know enough and I'm going to find out more. But I think about that in my life a lot is that that, that, that, that, that, that, that, you know, that. you know, out of 800 billion, however many fucking people there are in this world, sometimes I find myself sitting with someone and I'm like, wow, this, this is, this is, this is an intersection. We've somehow managed to be in this room at this same time on this same planet with this same vibe going on.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And this is, that is the good part about Instagram, you know, even though we may, we may not be fond of the person that runs it. We may not be fond of the bigger, you know, picture. But there is a way of connecting with people that you would never get a chance to, like, I would probably never have met you had it not been for me being so inspired by your Instagram reels. And that is amazing how the good part of Instagram is maybe not the ultra-cureated or someone

reprimanding you because you're not eating correctly. But, you know, there's so much more to life. And that when you do find your tribe, your people, it just feels so connected. Yeah. And that's the thing that I think maybe I want to talk about more. It's like we're being fed a message where, you know, you either take a hammer and smash up your phone and live on an island or you just deal with it. You just let it happen and you just kind of go, well, I just have to deal with this and keep scrolling. You know, the messages are getting in.

the toxicity and the noise is seeping in. And I got to a point myself where I was like, there's got to be a better way. Like there has to be a way you have a supercomputer in your pocket. Yeah. Instead of ditching it, let's have a conversation about how we use it better because it's genuinely a tool. It's a tool for connectivity. It's a tool for inspiration. It's a tool to find art and music and experiences.

But if all the noise is eclipsing, So that's why I'm here going, no, no, it's okay to use it, but let's try and use it better for ourselves. No one's ever thought about it the way you did it. Yeah. Because you're not only, you don't reprimand the people that are feeding us bullshit. It's just like, yeah, nobody cares. And nobody does care. Nobody really does care about, you know, losing 10 pounds in three days.

I mean, if you really think about it, you don't care about that. But what you do care about is being more curious and being more interested in what the world has to offer us and what we have to offer the world. You're giving us information. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins. I see all of your comments.

I swear I do. You are wondering, where's my show? This is so dang delicious. Smells divine. That's a jalapeno popper. Oh my god. It's so good! Yes, I'm back and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie. What are we reheating today?

Welcome to Nal Vow's cooking. Guess what we're going to make right now. We're alive. Hi, everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's Place. That's where you can see our book group, this podcast. That's where you can go for all the cooking that you want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing. That's how good it is. So head to Valerie's Place.com and go ahead and sign up.

You guys are the original members, and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time. I'm just curious, when you finished a reel and you're, it's a vulnerable place to be by releasing, especially some of the real vulnerable reels that you've done. Like, is there a moment before you press send that there's like, okay, I guess I'm doing this? well um i think in the beginning probably my first few reels i thought uh that's a bit weird but i i but then i stopped and the more i did it the more i conditioned myself not to care that's the wild bit i'm actually doing this for myself as much as i am doing it for other people because

I've had my own baggage like we all do, you know. It's taken me a long time to figure out how to use my voice in the not trendy authentic kind of way. You know, authenticity is so banded about. Because who really knows how authentic you are. I mean, sometimes I don't even realize how authentic I am. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just doing. But is that authentic?

I don't know. And I really don't fucking care at this point because I'm just going to be. me. Yeah. One of the things that ties everyone together, regardless of socioeconomic background, regardless of skin color, regardless of culture, is the feeling of vulnerability and worrying that somebody's going to judge them. You know, and I, it's that uncomfortable bit that I want us all to be patient with. Because this is an age agnostic message. It literally doesn't matter whether you're 12 or 90. Yeah. You know, you can actually remind yourself, oh, wait, does this serve me? And if it doesn't, I literally don't care. How do you get to that place? Well, you have to get over

the fact that it feels weird and vulnerable, which is, it gets me back to the point that you were making. I remember reading a quote by David Bowie who said, and I'm really paraphrasing here, but he said something like humanity and art is the best place you can be is where your feet in the, like if you're in the water, in the ocean, your feet aren't flat on the ground, but they're also not not touching, so you're totally drowning. You're in this weird bit where you can kind of touch the bottom and you feel slightly uneasy like okay this is interesting that's where the good stuff happens but i think because we are being messaged 24-7 about how to oh i had to get to this part i have to do this i have to do that we're actually not letting those patient quiet weird

moments settle into our brain crevices we're we're completely discounting how good it is to feel uncomfortable, to feel a bit bored, to feel a bit like, I don't know what to say right now. So I'm just going to wait a minute. Or I don't know what to do right now. You don't have to have the answers all the time. You know? And I think that's the magic of being human. And I think all of us can relate to that.

Every single person can relate to that because everybody has that feeling. And I think over time, you just condition yourself to go, I know, that, yeah, I'm just going to, do this because I don't care about that. Yeah. It's literally just little habits over and over again. And so I get messages from people all the time saying, I actually hear nobody cares in your voice in my head when I'm out in the world. Which is amazing.

Yeah. But it's not like something that you come to immediately. You know, it's something over time that you begin to begin to go, oh, wow, okay. They're telling me that this is what's true. and you know, it's not like you can get to that point and you go, oh, right, I'm this and that doesn't matter, and I should be, it's just. Well, it's so hard. I think it keys in on what Tatiana was saying about getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. Yes. And finding the curiosity in what that uncomfortableness feels like, why it's uncomfortable.

Is it just because it's new, or is it just because you're feeling shame because you're embarrassed? Is it like, what's the uncomfort from? And most people don't even go that deep. Most people are just like right here. They don't even stop. They don't even stop to consider what's going on in their body or in their mind at all, right? Yeah, that's exactly it. And it's where our egos are telling us that everybody is like watching us to be perfect.

It's not true because guess what? Nobody cares. Everybody's literally nobody's paying attention. You know why? Because we're all looking down at our own baggage, our own insecurities. You know, and as soon as you realize that over time, these little bits, you kind of go, oh, wow. One of one moment, I'll never forget. It was such a lesson for me.

I was very heavily pregnant with my first kid. and and I was just over it. I was just so tired and I was just so just, ugh. So I put on, I remember it being a bit chilly, and I had these maternity jeans on that were really kind of baggy and stuff. I put on a T-shirt, and then I put on this button-down shirt that didn't really fit. And then I was like, well, I'm still a bit, it might be a bit cold. So I put on a puffer jacket that was like orange.

All these colors were happening, right? And the Popford jacket can't, it couldn't zip up. So I looked down and there was a bit of twine on the floor. So I literally took this twine and I just tied it around and I left the house. I love it. And my husband was 50 and he looked down, he's like, are you, are you, are you, do you know what you're wearing? And I'm like, yeah, whatever. You know, and I remember going, nobody remembers.

that I do because it was brilliantly like freeing to go, I, and he took a picture of me and I looked absolutely bonkers, you know, but I loved that I was like, I literally don't care. I just want to go for a walk. Yeah. You know? I like the way you've turned nobody cares into, because it used to be, I mean, I think you said at one point, you know, it's like a school yard taunt, but it really, it's more like it's, it's giving yourself the permission to not care what someone else thinks of you. which I think is really super, I remember my son's kindergarten teacher once said to me because I was too into myself and I was so anxious about whatever. She became a very good friend. And she said, it's none of your business what someone thinks of you.

It's just simply none of your business because there's nothing you can do about it. And that's what I love about. That's what I hear what I hear besides your voice is nobody cares. It's okay. Just do what you want to do. Nobody's going to really care. If you're not hurting somebody, nobody cares. How much time do we spend censoring ourselves thinking that someone's going to care?

How much of life are we actually missing because we feel as though it has to be this or it has to be that? And really, nobody cares. Yeah. And that's precisely why there's a two-parter to this message. Because, you know, if you see something in the world or online, why waste, you know, a lot of people do it for kind of lazy comedy. pick something and then they pick apart that person to make fun of them. Fine, that's their comedy, that's their lane. But I literally, I want people to look and go, I don't want that. Don't spend any energy taking down that other person. You can literally say nobody cares and then

pivot to something else. So the two-parter, the energy that's delivered is one is the ability to give yourself headspace for something else. And the second part of that, is what are you going to do with that sudden kind of burst of energy and free space in your head? Do you find something else like, you know, and then you feel great. And then you're allowed to go, oh, I can actually do something that makes me happy. And that lights me up. And, you know, because if they watch your Instagram feed, they learn something as well. Yeah.

We have such a short time on this planet and you get one shot, I mean, depending on what you believe in, But I agree with that because I think I do believe in reincarnation, even though I was raised a Catholic. But I think you're given this one shot at this particular life. This is your only go at this life. So don't, you know, don't waste it. And what you're doing in this life, if you are of that bent, will affect what you reincarnate into, what level you're moving up towards Nirvana. Right. Right.

Yeah. And the best legacy, I think, that somebody can leave. is not how many handbags they have or how like little wrinkles like because honestly what people are going to remember is good energy and the amount of people you impacted you know and sometimes that's hard because you know you like I said we have baggage we have stuff that we're working through we do get angry right you know rightfully so we do get frustrated well especially in this day and age you know yeah there's a lot to be angry about and you know and you know you know you Using your energy to just learn about people, learn about their backgrounds, learn about what's going on in the world, learn about music, art, activism, all that stuff.

Because one day you're going to look back and go, what did I leave behind? I left a pretty awesome legacy of lots of good things, you know. Yeah, and that feels good. It feels like you're doing something. We're all here to learn and to love. And it feels, at least that's what I believe. And it feels like when you do leave a loving aura with people that you love, it hopefully gives you some peace. Because I think we all want to be treated the way we, you know, we want to treat people the way we want to be treated.

What did Maya Angelou say? She said, people aren't going to remember what you said. They're going to remember how you made them feel. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. people get reminded to do. Oh, yeah, actually, like, I want to feel good.

I want to feel inspired. And you know what? That energy ends up making you want to inspire somebody else. Yeah, and I think the transparency of all of that, like, do you think this may be a way that the Internet has helped? I mean, there's two sides of the fulcrum, but this is the part, the transparency part of it. That, I think that gets us to a place. Do you think that's different than in previous generations?

That we're in a different place now where people can be more transparent and more open and more being able to live through uncomfortable things and get to the other side of it? Yeah. I think, you know, we live in an age where things are broadcast a lot more. And people use that in good and bad ways. But the good is that people are talking about their experiences and connecting to other people. You know, people are allowed to be who they are, to live as they are, to identify the way that makes them happy. And I think that's so important, you know, when you have to deal with up.

Because you see more of yourself and other people. Yeah. And when you see the other side of that coin trying to eclipse all that, people can push back against that going, yeah, but guess what? There's a whole community of people here that is making me feel special and empowered and like I belong. I think that's really important. And I think my message is within kind of that world, you know, and I want it to be because I want people to go, oh, I don't need the shouting, the dark stuff, the confusing stuff. I want to connect with people who are like-minded, who, you know, who are doing good things,

who aren't hurting other people, who aren't, you know, saying and kind of doing anything that's like, into propaganda and whatever. Like we just have to, we have to get back to the social behind social media. Yes. It's, it's, it, it has evolved and changed because that's what things do. But I remember in the beginning, as we all do, it's like, oh, let's share pictures of our dinner and let's say hello to people across the world and look, look at the sky over there and all of that simplicity.

It has changed into a really giant QVC. ad and yes. I don't think it's actually evolved. I kind of believe that it's devolved. Or devolved. Yeah. Yeah. And it has, and in some ways and in others, yes.

Yeah. But people do need to, like, they figured out how to make money, how to monetize Instagram, how to monetize eyes. You're rage baiting. I understand. Yeah. Which is really unfortunate. Yeah.

Yeah. And I understand why. And it's great that there is a, an income. You know, to be made by younger people who want to be influencers? Great. Okay. However, people are also monetizing our insecurities. And I would love to talk to people who work at meta, who work at all these places,

to say, okay, fine, if you're going to use it as a tool, but why not use it as a tool for good? Right. Why not market? Why not market for good? Why not just, because it's sometimes it feels like lazy. It's lazy, you know? because they want the clicks, they want the eyes,

and so they're going to make you feel bad so you buy that neck cream. I mean, come on. Come on. Yeah. There's no cream that's going to fix this. Duct tape. Yeah, just let me. At a certain point, you just go, this is me, and I'm just going to have to be fine with it.

But here, that was like a little voice creeping into my head, like, oh, your neck is saggy. I'm wondering if you ever, because you are challenging us in the best way to not care about what other people think of us. Do you ever have a voice in your head that gives you doubt? Do you, yeah? Yeah, still? Yeah, all the time still. And I think I've made peace with the fact that living with insecurities like we all do, we kind of have to reluctantly invite them in sometimes. And you have to sit with them and maybe give it a name. I heard somebody brilliantly say, give it a guy's name so that you can learn to shut it off so so listen steve i know that your opinion i know that your opinion about my neck today is going to make me feel bad but you know what

steve i need you just zip it for a second and i'm just going to go about my day so i think my way of dealing with is is to say okay well today might be a little bit more frustrating than other days but it's not real. I just have to kind of navigate through it, you know, and, and then tomorrow's going to be another day where I get to be alive on this blue planet. Now, you know, I don't want to pollyanna it, but it's like I try and kind of stay positive. I mean, I do love a good swear word, so I swear it my insecurities sometimes. So it's just one of those things. I don't think any of us can run from those things because we all have trauma in our lives. that has contributed to these kind of feelings, whether it's body, whether it's food,

whether it's relationship insecurities, whether, you know. I love the idea of inviting them in and having them sit down and have a talk with them. I think making friends with the difficult parts of yourself is the way to love all of yourself because without those difficult parts, you can't have dark, you can't have light without dark. So you need to embody, you need to stop pushing all those things that you find challenging or you might even hate about yourself and invite them in and go, okay, what do you hear for? Let's talk about it then. Or sometimes, Steve, shut the fuck up. Yeah, but I think, and I for a long time when the body positive movement was happening online.

What happened to that? I didn't. A lot of people, myself included, had a problem with that. because it became you have to love yourself. Well, guess what, Sheila? Sometimes I don't love myself. No. I get mad at myself.

Yeah. And I think the whole, like, we cannot live in absolutes. We're human beings that are very complicated. And I think the neutrality behind us seeing ourselves, do you know what? My body is capable and adequate. And I'm okay with that. It's not some glorious statue and it's also not some hideous troll.

Right. You know, it's just fine and it's my body and I have to deal with the things that I got to deal with. You know, I don't need the absolutes. I think there's a wonderful piece in a kind of acceptance and neutrality, you know. And I think, you know, the thing about social media is that a lot of it sometimes is absolutes. You have to do this. You have to do that. You have to, you know.

I am hoping that I can reach people at this lovely middle ground that's sort of like a campfire. And we can sit there and go, we're going to lean in. We're going to learn. We're going to have a conversation. And sometimes it's not going to be easy. And that's okay too. We just have to feel it out, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. I like to thank my body. Yeah. Like, thank you for bringing me this far. I mean, really, I appreciate you, you know, holding me and helping me because really I haven't treated you very well. And so I have this deep appreciation for you. And I do try to remember to thank my body and to thank my mind and my brain for actually persevering through whatever it's been because I think gratitude is just so important.

It is. You can live or die through gratitude. And I think it's what's so funny is that when I actually did have a perfect body in my 20s that I thought I was ugly and I hated my body and I thought I would find everything wrong with it. And now that I'm in my 60s, where there is a lot of shit wrong, wrong with my body, I'm sure I can come up with a better word than wrong or just like changed. Changed. Changed. I actually, it's so much more peace with it.

It's like, I can go upstairs still. You know, I can still get upstairs. I can still get my dog for a walk. I can, you know, feed my cats. I can get to the bathroom in the morning. I can do stuff with this body. So what if it has cellulite everywhere? Yeah.

And, you know, but I get to hug my son. Yeah. Yeah. What's brilliant about that is that every person, even if they aren't, even if they have a disability, even if they're not able-bodied, there is a gratitude of I get to see the sky today. Yes. I get to do this. I get to, you know, and I mean, sometimes I said in one of my reals, I think, sometimes I genuinely, I drive at night. I have to pull over because I look up and I'm like, there's outer space up there.

It's like a science fiction movie. and we get to experience that. Yeah. It's one of my favorite things to do is to just sit outside around sunset and just watch the sky change. People forget to look up. It's so beautiful. I always am reminding myself, hey, Mac, look up. Yeah.

It's so vast. And so like we're on a rock spinning through space for Christ's sake. We can stand to be kinder to one another. Yeah. And that's where that boils it down to that curiosity bit, which is, If you stay curious, out of that comes gratefulness. Out of that comes, you know, a kind of neutrality where you can just observe, you know. Yeah.

And be in the present, which is the best place to be. Okay, we're going to come back with the full reveal. So if you're watching on YouTube or on Spotify and you want to see the full reveal, go ahead on over to Valer's Place.com and sign up and you'll be able to see it. But we'll be right back for the full reveal. I have a really fun recipe for you today. You saw how easy that was. Look at all that flavor we packed into chicken breasts. I love the flavor of maple syrup, especially for these kind of muffins.

I see all of your comments. I swear I do. You are wondering, where's my show? This is so dang delicious. Smells divine. That's a jalapeno popper. Oh my god. It's so good! Yes, I'm back and I am cooking for all of you. All right, Sophie. What are we reheating today? Welcome to now vows cooking. Guess what we're gonna make right now. We're alive. Hi everybody. How are you? You have to go to Valerie's Place. That's where you can see our book group, this podcast. That's where you can go for all the cooking that you

want to see. Oh, yes. I've missed cooking for you. I'm glad I finally get to do it again. I'm dancing. That's how good it is. So head to Valerisplace.com and go ahead and sign up. You guys are the original members and I can't thank you enough. It's happy time.