Goes Without Saying - a mindset glow-up: ghosted your therapist and it shows

Episode Date: May 3, 2021

get in loser we're going to therapy. it's your chaotic faves here and we're ready for another (drunk) episode of Goes Without Saying. come and join sephy & wing as we discuss the problem with personal narratives, male therapists and our weekly breakdowns and breakthroughs. from the search for external validation, to how therapy isn't accessible to everyone, we're giving our mindsets a makeover in this ~stunning~ episode. prepare for niche references, bizarre tangents, and plenty of unsolicited advice. brb my therapist is calling. join the conversation every monday. speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram! you're invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/dad3RM8q Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying, guys, that you are back for another episode of your favorite podcast in the world, Goes Without Saying. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And today, I mean, this episode has been bizarre. We've both, we're doing this at the end, I'm quite drunk by now. We've been drinking quite a lot. I was doing tequila shots.

Wing's drinking kind of a fruit concoction. And we're talking about therapy. We chose a weird episode to get drunk on. Not appropriate, but... It's kind of been therapy for us it really has been therapy for us it's been really stunning are you feeling light as a feather i'm feeling heavy as a ton of bricks and i'm ready to watch game of thrones now but you're ready to listen to an episode of goes without saying hopefully because that's what you're about to get

i don't really know what this episode is yeah i kind of was just like forcing you to do shots for some reason i just did a tequila shot what time is it now it's 10 to 5 that's fine bit soon i would say bit early it's the witching hour somewhere nick scratch once said it makes me sick nick scratch so i think we're gonna be a bit drunk this episode which we were just saying it's a bit weird to try and be drunk in this episode which is about kind of therapy kind of mental health it's like it's not like we're doing guys we're doing a fun drunk episode it's like quite a serious episode i'm kind of just in the mood to drink same so let's drink in the mood for a nice drink and just have a great old time it makes no sense but let's just do it anyway yeah well how are you i'm good today i feel like i'm about to go on stage which i'm not i'm in my bedroom you're not no i don't at all but i just i

think it's because i feel a bit drunk i feel a bit like i'm going to a party you're kind of going on a date yeah which i'm not i'm kind of actually sad with me for two hours i'm sat with wing who's forcing me she's honestly peer pressuring me to do shots alone in my room. No like it's a PSHE lesson. I did it quite seriously as well with like a lime and tequila didn't have didn't get any salt but you know. It kind of felt like I was watching someone do shots via live stream it's kind of the worst like like so unfun. It felt wrong in all ways. How are you? I'm good I had a a therapy session this morning. It was great. Oh yeah, of course. The most stunning thing. Maybe my best one ever. Music to my ears as always.

Do you want to go in on it maybe? Like, do you want to talk about it? I can do. I don't, I don't really know what to say apart from just, it was great. It was my only, it's my only therapy session I've ever had where I really, well, I did kind of cry a little bit, but like, I didn't cry. Normally I'm sobbing away. Yeah. Also, I used to think the word sobbing meant cry a little bit but like i didn't cry normally i'm sobbing away yeah also i used to think the word sobbing meant like a little whimper but it actually means like a guttural cry so i used to think like when people are like oh no she's only she was like sobbing or whatever i used to think it was like a small thing kind of oh i'm holding it in it's quite good but actually i'm a mess no yeah no no a sob is like oh my god. A guttural cry. A sob is kind of what we do

kind of every day of our life. Every day? Yeah. And it's not I'm normally sobbing in every um I was gonna say in every episode which is kind of true but I'm normally sobbing in every therapy session I meant to say. I think we whimper in episodes. We whimper in public we sob in private session therapy. One time I really sobbed on the train. Oh yeah no I've we whimper in public we sob in private session therapy one time i really sobbed on the train oh yeah no i've definitely sobbed in public for sure but like a pack train and i was painting my nails which i shouldn't have been doing why were you doing that why are you so sad well i can't really remember oh someone told me to like move my thing or something and i started crying and they probably thought what have i done i know like a real loony you saw because of that or was that kind of the thing that tips you over the edge i

have no excuse yeah yeah that was the last fucking straw for someone making a polite comment was the last fucking straw those are the things that seem so absurd aren't they when it's like i'm actually crying over over a series of unfortunate events that have led to this moment yeah then someone kind of says oh by the way you've stepped in gum and you're like fuck off you fucking bitch how are you that's the last thing i need someone making a nice comment to me someone just trying to help me yeah oh my god i can't handle it but yeah i had really good i'm feeling quite light as a feather you always say therapy makes you feel light as a feather and i'm always like yeah i guess but i kind of feel like a ton of bricks but actually today i'm very much feeling light as a feather and I'm always like yeah I guess but I kind of feel like a ton of bricks but actually today I'm very much feeling light as a feather which is nice so stunning and

now I'm feeling quite drunk actually that is a weird day for you therapy followed by now spill your guts on a podcast I'm working after this by the way I've got a full evening of work and I've been working all morning it's a drinking day yeah that's what i mean is like um i'm kind of gonna turn up later to my laptop drunk it's quite nice that's fine but this is why i kind of miss the quarantine vibe because it's everyone was like joking about drinking wine all the time i know like if alcohol was a problem for you this episode might be a problem for you um because i'm making a lot of jokes about i am i actually rarely drink i think i drink quite regularly you're drinking quite a lot these days don't you yeah i think i drink quite regularly at the moment you're kind of drinking every night no no i'm not no no i'm not drinking every night

but i feel like i drink every multiple times every week i think i have a drink twice a week i think i'm i quite love alcohol that's my problem i do yeah that's not a problem i think i love all the things in life that are bad for me i love alcohol i do quite like cigarettes it is going quite far now i don't smoke but i do love cigarettes every episode yeah and i love um that's maybe it i was gonna say i was gonna say what else is bad. I do actually hate people that are bad for me. I do hate kind of annoying toxic people. Kind of, and I love GMOs. And I love McDonald's. It's like, no, no, no, that's not even. But I think I do love being intoxicated. You're kind of, it is kind of the Capricorn in you that you're kind of the man at the end, you put yourself a little cold, a little bit of something, something with some ice. Yeah, no, that you're kind of the man at the end you put yourself a little cold a little bit of something something with some ice yeah no i love a kind of drink over ice

like a little um my vibe is like a disaronno over ice and i feel like this is who i kind of picture i am you know in handmaid's tale mr waterford i was exactly thinking of him has a long office kind of he has a little whiskey and he's like covered it there are papers on his desk and he's working hard and he's like keep these women out of my sight that's kind of how i picture myself but i'm kind of keep these men out of my sight that's really stunning and i'm in my big wooden office and i've got like a cigar that's stunning i kind of just end every day with a pepsi max like a seven year old same i actually end my day with a hot soy milk but you know sometimes on the weekend get my hot water bottle on pepsi max and i call it a night yeah really soon it's

hot water bottle and maybe a hot chocolate if i'm feeling crazy and shrek to be honest shrek yeah i'm watching shrek a lot these days much to my boyfriend's dismay which one one two or three or shrek the hall what was the third one yeah shrek the halls but days much to my boyfriend's dismay which one one two or three or shrek the hall what was the third one yeah shrek the halls but there was a fifth sort of bad oh yeah shrek the third there was shrek one shrek two shrek the third and then shrek the halls and then four why did they make that i think that was a short i have no idea but i'm going between one and two because i realized i'd watched a lot of two only a teardrop away as we know quite little tush yeah quite little tush obviously when i was seeing one seeing it's kind

of english is my second language when i was watching when i was in a relationship with one we were seeing each other me and donkey were seeing each other i need you to are you on my just quickly pause the episode are you on my just quickly pause the episode are you on my level drink wise i just want to be on the same page i'm feeling quite drunk i'm getting quite hot so i just want to know i just want to feel safe i want to feel in good company i don't want to be here all on my own yeah no no i feel like we're talking shit though i think we're talking shit as well but is that not the whole point of goes without saying? Okay, fine.

Let's do it. Let's keep going. Let's keep going. I'll just quickly end my point by saying used to watch Shrek 2 a lot. Realised I hadn't really gone into Shrek 1 enough. Hadn't given it the credit it deserves really. So I've gone back now.

I'm watching somebody once and then that's what I'm in at the moment. Yeah. And I'm loving it. So if you guys haven't seen Shrek 1, I really would recommend it's funny actually bring this up because i i watched this morning a video kind of you know when you wake up and you make the big mistake of going on your phone and then you make the

even bigger mistake of going on youtube on your phone in the morning big mistake you're not quite conscious you're clicking on weird shit it was like a video about why shrek has held up over like other animated films and all of that and they were they actually put a large bit of the i guess not blame the large bit of the credit to um the soundtrack yeah into somebody once told me we were saying this last night yes it's just it is amazing they were saying if that song wasn't in it what would be the song of shrek it would probably be when i saw her face yeah yeah so many good ones though there's so many to choose from maybe we should bring in some theme songs

apart from our own theme song we should maybe get something that isn't just kind of royalty free youtube music yeah hi guys welcome to games without saying yeah we should come up with something maybe we should have a soundtrack well if anyone wants to write us a little song. It would be world's most embarrassing ringtone. Mama do the hum, mama do the hum hum. This is a little something I like to call. Yeah, I mean, we're ready to hear it at any point. Send it over.

Yeah, if anyone wants to write a song, that'd be great. An unpaid opportunity. We're offering an unpaid internship to a singer-songwriter. So how's your week been?'s my week been i can't even remember can you talk us through the breakthrough that you had last night if you want to yeah i can talk you through my break my breakdown and breakthrough just quickly remember it yeah it was a breakdown that led to a breakthrough i was doing yoga and i've been obsessed with yoga but i've been doing kind of yoga with adrian videos

and i'm not her biggest fan honestly who hasn't but i'm not the biggest fan i find it a little bit you're awesome you fucking not fucking she wouldn't say fucking you rug the gentrification of yoga the awesome in me recognizes the awesome in you is like stop saying fucking awesome wow the alcohol is coming out yeah it's like i need someone i need someone that doesn't say awesome every two seconds i need someone that doesn't call me a rock star it's kind of what people think when they listen to this i think i look i just i can't listen to this anymore i need someone who doesn't reference dudley special day every five minutes i need someone who takes me a bit seriously fair enough someone did some impressions of us and

they went stunning. And I thought this has gone too far. This whole stunning thing. Is that a dick? Like we know we're really sorry. We're embarrassing. Eradicate that from my vocabulary. So you had a breakthrough.

But I was doing this yoga and I found this most amazing yoga teacher whose name I've completely forgotten. And it was just a completely different style of yoga that was so inclusive and so stunning not to be a parody of myself but so stunning that I started crying like I started actually sobbing it was very hands over the heart and kind of crying during sex yeah genuinely that is crying during sex with yourself kind of any chance to be vulnerable it's like are you okay right now I'll take I'll jump at any opportunity to cry it was so good like it was just a half an hour little yoga session and basically we've you may have noticed if you follow us on instagram we've added the additions i'm looking at the camera harry i speak directly to you we've added the addition of cameras and i

think that has bought i honestly thought you were gonna say we've added the addition of jim caring it is now me we're sephie and wing and jim we've added the addition of Jim Carrey. It is now me, Sefi and Wing and Jim. We've said it before. Which my boyfriend said a good thing the other day. He said it was self-carry. And I thought that's stunning. Genius. This is why we need him on the podcast.

Stunning. Sefi and Wing and Wing's boyfriend and Jim self-carry. And Jim Carrey. That's what we need. Yeah, go on. But in the last week, we have introduced cameras which has i think for me bought up quite a lot of like body image stuff which isn't the most fun it rattled your cage a bit yeah i think i have wanted to die for a bit of the week wanted to hide away um because it is quite triggering

having to record yourself having an authentic conversation and then watch that back on a camera when kind of I'm trying to speak to you but before I can look at you there's a huge fucking ring light that is capturing my being and like on a tiny version like I just think it's so triggering so I think I've had a lot of body image shit come up this week which is nothing new but also horrible and doing this yoga I think I think I caught myself in the mirror and I just looked at myself and I was like why can't I accept this like this is what we're annoyed about yeah so I'm so socially acceptable I'm so the essentially the blueprint of what society says oh yeah you get a big tick like you're fine a white cis able-bodied woman that's that should

be fine but it's not for me for some reason it hasn't been because i've thought that if i'm not the thinnest woman on the planet if i'm not essentially on my deathbed with thinness i'm not acceptable even though i'm a healthy weight i can't accept myself it's ridiculous so i think i caught myself and i was just kind of thinking god this is what i can't accept someone that literally ticks pretty much all of the boxes of what's acceptable and I think I just I started crying because it was just sort of I think it was one of those moments where I was like god like this needs to end like this these thoughts and this shit that's holding me back it has to stop like there is no way I can

live my life with fucking literally a cunt that lives in my head and it's like you're fucking fat you're fucking not good enough you're fucking not um thin enough essentially and it's just fucked so it has to go don't know how that's gonna happen but eviction notice is up i'm gonna go back to therapy i guess i guess back to therapy i go time to lose some money but um it was just a bit of a point where i was like no i just said no and it was as easy as that the fairy godmother waved her wand and i think i'm perfect yeah okay so we asked on our story on instagram if you don't follow us at sephie and wing on instagram you really should like it's actually rude to consume all of this content for free and not give us like a single follow like it's so

so fucking rude it's still free the sad thing is it's still free even if you're on instagram it's like yep we still don't get paid for that yeah true yeah you just kind of you just get more for free but anyway basically we're on sale it's free you just get an all-round better experience but on the instagram you can come and like share your thoughts on the episode for us to discuss obviously each week and i really liked what somebody said about the best kind of therapy soundbite which we asked for and they said don't have higher standards for others than you would for yourself love which i feel like feels obvious but it just kind of hit me just now when i was reading it don't have higher standards for other no yeah yeah don't have other high oh no i think i fucked it up sorry don't have higher standards for others

than you would for yourself you fucked it up what is it then don't have higher standards for yourself it's actually oh don't have higher standards for yourself than you do for others well if you thought that was powerful it's even more powerful when you get it right. Wow. Okay. Don't have higher standards for yourself than you do for others. Because it's so true. I feel like for most people, I'm just going to tar us all with the same brush. I feel like our standards for other people

are pretty fucking low. Like you can kind of just be whoever, do whatever, low standards, do whatever you want to me. I'll lie back and think of England and just take it. For yourself, all of a sudden, we have the highest standards for ourselves i just thought that was great i get it's pretty obvious which most of them are but it just kind of hit me it's even if you're doing more more more you're going above and beyond you're still disappointed in yourself you let you let

everyone else treat you like shit yeah or even if you have decent standards for how you should be treated by other people i'm pretty confident in saying your standards for yourself are still probably far too high right definitely so this is a big thing that i've been talking about in therapy recently of why my standards for myself is so ridiculously high um so actually let me go into like full because my i my kind of vibe with this and talking about therapy is that we can all kind of bootleg each other therapy like um we'll put all of the psychologists out of business and just share loads of infographics on instagram yeah if we all work together we might be able to salvage some kind of self-esteem and mental

health for each other also we asked on the story is is therapy accessible to you and a large percentage of people said no it's not and i just think um have you broken up or are you just looking at me blankly i'm just looking at you thinking that is so fucked yeah because it's so true it's not accessible if i think about the amount of money that has been like literally thrown into like my well-being by me it's a it's kind of yeah that was only doable because of one a big student loan and two like a job that i had that allowed that it's like it's not accessible it's not and also in situations like so i've only ever had women therapists and lots of people sent messages about having awful experiences with male therapists. Or if part of your therapy is to unpack like racial trauma, you're going to need someone who's going to understand the racialized experience, which is going to cut out a large percentage of therapists.

It's so true that you need to kind of find someone who you, I guess, can connect with on some level, which makes it even more inaccessible this is why i refuse to get diagnosed as autistic by a man because i almost think there is no understanding of like neuro diversity within women anyway that i feel like it's kind of quite easily easy for a woman to even gaslight you and be like no no it's fine like you're not you're just a bit kooky you're just the phoebe from friends girl like you're fine when actually i feel like it would be even easier for a man to be like darling like just don't even worry about it male therapist isn't my vibe anyway i just can't i can't bear my i could not be honest no it would be so embarrassing it would be mortifying it would be i don't honestly if you have a male therapist like my heart goes out for you and my heart goes out to

you and i also think you're god you must have been able to put a lot of your patriarchal like training to the back of your mind the amount that I try and um unconsciously seem attractive to men I don't know if I could go in and be like oh here's all my trauma I think in part or maybe an interesting like aspect of that could be that we're kind of raised to think that men are men know what they're talking about so you want a male doctor because they're professional and he's very smart man and blah blah like kind of you want a male driving instructor you know so i think actually part of it might be that um because we just generally think that men are superior to women do you know what i mean i think that could be in place of it i once knew someone that said they wouldn't get on a plane if they saw that the pilot was a woman and it was a woman

that said this a woman said that a woman said well it was not even a woman a girl we were at school and she was probably trying to impress like a group of probably boys but she literally said i would never get on or like she's got off a bus before that a woman was driving her what isn't it mental i'm sure she's like that's a lie it's a total lie but the fact that she was saying that not that you're lying you're fucking lying no no no it's a total lie from her yeah because it was her trying to be cool basically i'm not one of these crazy feminists like age kind of 16 i'm not a crazy feminist i fucking hate women yeah literally it's like do we not see the need when you're saying shit like that but i definitely think that's the i

mean it just literally goes without saying there is obviously the idea that men are more intellectual than women and women can't teach there's the idea that a man could teach a woman something a man could teach a man something but a woman could never teach a man something the male experience is the default if it was harriet potter we wouldn't know it we would have never heard it there would be no references on this pod. Yeah. Because suddenly it's a little girl's story. Suddenly it's a women's story. But if you use a man, it's the default. It's the default living experience. That's the thing. It's why a man will watch many, many films about men, but suddenly it's like, oh, but that's like a girl's film. It's like, no, it just is written by a woman. Thanks for bringing up Promising Young

Woman. I just wanted to talk about it. That's what i'm thinking of just specifically emerald fennel fennel i'm gonna say fennel because i'm not a wanker no offense if that is her real name nicholas flamel literally nicholas in the restrictive section um she was talking about how she wanted to layer things into promisingising Young Woman. We would highly recommend that you watch it if you haven't already. She wanted to layer in things like Britney Spears, Paris Hilton's Stars Are Blind, a manicure. All of these things that just because they're seen as women's things. Yeah.

Which is synonymous with being unimportant. And stupid. And stupid. Materialistic, emotional, fragile. Mm-hmm. Rapid. things yeah which is synonymous with being unimportant and stupid and stupid materialistic emotional fragile vapid yeah completely vapid something else so lisa eldridge who i adore love and adore her book face paint is great um she she is a makeup artist but i really love her because she always talks about like the history of makeup i know this is an episode about therapy but i i can bring it back i promise let's not bring it back let's just let it go just let it go let it go she was talking about because our ni family she's the only other person the only other person apart from me that i

was even talking about this but she's the only person that i found that really goes into this so if you know any more please send them our way um but she was talking about how we love to study architecture and we love to study um the media music and film and all of all of these things that can apparently point us in the direction of where we were as a society at a moment in time or a moment in history and yet how can we undermine literally the way that our faces looked the ways that we wanted something to put on our face it's your most the most representative of you makeup and yet it's so undermined it's like the history of makeup is oh look it's an episode for another day but i mean it sounds interesting i'm 100 gonna look up look this up it's so fascinating this is what i did my first i did a thesis once before uni and

it was on like the i don't know if I spoke about this before. I kind of feel like I spoke about it in another drunk episode. Classic me. I don't think I know about this. I was talking about how far you can reflect like women's social standing or how women see themselves in what they're wearing in like respective decades, etc. like respective decades etc i just think it's so fucking true as lisa eldridge and emerald finnell have said that you call something a woman's thing and suddenly it becomes unimportant but actually it literally shapes the world britney spears was running a global economy if britney spears died the economy would have crashed like that is the whole world literally in her hands yeah in her

dad's in jamie spears's hands but because it's a woman and she looked great at 18 yeah because she's a woman and she's hot and she's just a kid it's not serious anyway free britney bitch i wanted to ask you if you could share with the class maybe what do you think has been your biggest if you think about who let's imagine who would you be if you didn't go to therapy versus who you are now what's the biggest takeaway do you think that you've been able to make and i guess we can use therapy synonymous with just like awareness self-awareness developing like emotional intelligence like kind of consciously working towards bettering yourself yeah if therapy is inaccessible specifically therapy to you

acas powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend nature i've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson.

And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts. Everywhere.

ACAST.com. I think I would be a completely different person, or I would be such a lesser version of myself. The reason I went to therapy, so I'd never been to therapy before until I think it got to the first, so I did first year of uni with such high social anxiety, specifically about seminars and lectures. And I literally couldn't go, I could not go to seminars, they would terrify me. And I remember speaking to one of my friends and being like, I think I just need to accept like, everyone's nervous in a seminar, like everyone's nervous. Of course, it's such a nerve wracking thing. And then my friend was like, no, like, not everyone is nervous, like you're nervous for them. Like, that's not true. like not everyone is nervous like you're nervous for them like that's not true like

everyone is slightly kind of oh god I'm doing a bit of a performance but you are like throwing up beforehand you're like can't sleep the night before kind of you don't go like you're terrified of them so that's why I went and I think the growth that I had during that time because then it social anxiety for me wasn't actually about social anxiety it was actually about kind of body image and all of this stuff it was a symptom of it's so much deeper than you think it's like why can't i talk in a seminar it's like yeah it's because you fucking think you're a worthless piece of shit it's like okay that makes sense you're onto something here now we're talking yeah now we're onto something actually i feel like what you go into therapy for and what you

come out with often completely separate and I think that was one of the biggest things because I remember my therapist who I just love I was really lucky as well I think that's one of the crucial things I was really lucky that the first ever therapist I ever spoke to I clicked with and I loved and still love but I remember her saying she like this was like two years after um like working with her I guess working with her what do you do having sessions with her going at it with her um yeah after two years she was like to me I remember when you first came in you just sat there and you were like by the way I'm not never ever ever going to a seminar like I don't know what you're gonna do but I can't go to seminars I'm never gonna go it's the most you thing i've ever heard she was like and i literally thought okay like what is

this girl's problem kind of um okay we'll see what we can do here like by the way i'm just not going first of all i'm not a number i'm a human being i'm never going to a seminar and don't you dare patronize me i fully walked in with aerial energy like first of all with an attitude yeah like first of all there's nothing you can do I already know everything you're going to teach me but I'm here anyway yeah and then she was like the way you carry yourself and the way that you speak like even just like your whole energy is so different now and I was just like yeah I actually think it has changed so much about myself even though I've always been like quote-unquote confident in and like in certain settings i think it has changed my um

like deep view of myself in like uh like in a way that will last forever so if that didn't sell it i don't know what will this is a great time to say that today's episode is sponsored by sponsored by cbt i fucking wish it was sponsored just by anyone honestly like would love a check turning up in my bank tomorrow um i was gonna say i feel like let me just put my leg away sorry i'm really i'm really doing whatever i can to stay comfortable honestly sitting i'm wearing a giant kind of ball gown right now and it just it just it feels absurd also should i do my tequila shot i'm in kind of the coziest jacket ever but i it just it feels absurd also should i do my tequila shot i'm in kind of the coziest jacket ever but i look like i'm in a bin bag yeah go for a tequila

shot should i do it i'm gonna take a big gulp okay cool for everyone who likes the sound of ice in a metal straw which is not seffy i honestly despise it i don't despise it irl i despise hearing it through my headphones in high def editing. That's what I despise about metal straw. Whoa. This is the most tragic thing I've ever seen. It's horrible. I couldn't bite into the lime. Why? This makes

no sense. Nothing about this makes sense. It makes no sense to be talking about therapy. So it changed my view of myself forever. Should I do my tequila shot now? Tequila shads. Shads, shads, shads, shads. to be talking about therapy so it changed my view of myself forever should i do my tequila shot now tequila shots shots shots therapy is so inaccessible shots this is the worst lime i've ever had in my fucking life let me take another big gulp same now i'm onto my gin as well it's like i love everything that's bad for me it's like no yeah it fucking shows it fucking shows it fucking shows. It fucking shows, bitch.

It fucking shows you absolute mercy. Tragedy. Look at you girls. Literally, sitting in a giant ball gown, drinking a tequila shot at, what is it now? Half five. With a ring light in front of you is so tragic. What have we done? It's like, who would you be if you didn't go to therapy?

It's like, to be honest, probably a much more reasonable put together gal honestly i didn't need any more confidence don't give me like it's kind of it's gone bad what i was gonna say is if you don't mind me putting words into your mouth that i feel like something we talked about a lot um in our private lives and also in our public lives on this podcast is your work with or your understanding of like ego and like i'm you're literally putting on like red lips i had to put it on just then kind of the movie villain your work with ego let me just blot my lips who's the woman from of mice and men curly's wife lenny's gonna kill me kind kind of read High Heels or something I don't know

I didn't ever do Mice and Men I think was for the lower sets I only ever read Mice and Men Because my cousin had it And I read it once on holiday Sorry that Mice called it Mice and Men Such a flex on everyone Sorry that my top set is worse than your top set

Your top set is the B-tech version of my top set yeah you've been doing a lot of ego ego talk right and i feel like maybe you're at a place now where the confidence that you have now is very like genuine confidence as opposed to some sort of confidence that was built off of like ego maybe you could talk to us about that i love setting you up with the bombshell at the point and then running away and just letting you deal with it oh and i love responding to a bombshell question so much i love having a grenade thrown at me and they're just like rolling in the smithereens like right what can i what can i salvage from this man kind of a pig in like what's it called a pig and shit i love it i love being a pig and shit of the in the aftermath of the question you just threw at me i'm gonna have my cookie you're what i am a bit

gutted so i've got this big cook big cookie situation she's been down to millie's cookies do you remember millie's cookies is that still around Millie's cookies? Is that still around? I've got a big cookie that says congratulations on the book. Why does it say congratulations on it? You bought a cookie for yourself that says congratulations on it. I'm crying. Why do I always cry? I always find a way to cry.

I said, I bought, I went to Millie's cookies. Oh, right. Okay. It doesn't actually say congratulations. I've never been. It's to Millie's Cookies. Oh, right. Okay. It doesn't actually say congratulations. I've never been. It's not Millie's Cookies. I said I went to Millie's Cookies and I got a cookie that said congratulations on the podcast. What are they congratulating us on?

Congratulations on having a podcast. Although, although, big news, guys. We were three spots behindrah yesterday on the society and culture charts whatever that means make of that what you will i'm crying i don't i hope you cut the line oh shit here we go let me just get it out why why did you take that opportunity to eat a bit of cookie as well that just sets us back by about 10 minutes. One bite of cookie is worth, what, seven minutes of laughter? Oh, right, sorry.

Let me just... Oh, God. I was going to say, I hope you cut out. I said a sentence, but I kind of want to hear it back. I have no idea what I said, but you'll hear it when you edit. The last thing that I just said was definitely a mess. Anyway, ego, take it away. Fucking hell.

Jesus Christ, I forgot about that. I'm so sorry. Another grenade. was definitely a mess anyway um ego take it away another grenade um you got a retainer in or something no it's the lime is just like everywhere honestly the fucking lime you're kind of billy and i'm fab shift the reference nice um and jim's fab i should have said the third person here ego ego ego yeah i think that there's a difference there's two kinds of confidence andy from headspace told me this and i think i have already said this on the podcast but there are two there are two types of confidence one is that your confidence comes from external things like god i've got a great job at the moment i'm doing so well in my love life i've got confidence from this that is fake confidence that's ego confidence it could be shattered in a second it's not real it's made it's like trying to catch smoke or whatever that guy says in harry potter's about serious work trying to

catch smoke your bare hands this is one line in the movie dovetown it's not far from here nice but that's the kind of confidence it's like trying to catch smoke with your bare hands the real confidence that you really want is that you can be confident and comfortable in chaos with nothing your life can be a fucking absolute mess you can have everything go wrong for you basically but you still have some kind of i think andy calls it quiet confidence there's an element of inside yourself you have the innate knowledge that you are okay you're you're worthy in some way which i think that sort of confidence that is what i think i gained from therapy rather than or i think i gained

that throughout my life in like many different ways yeah but i think the way that um maybe as an insecure teenager that you try and give yourself confidence is by like, well, at least I've got fucking loads of A stars. At least I fucking have this new handbag that looks really cool. You give yourself bullshit that is supposed to make up for the lack that you feel in your life. And I see people do it all the time now, to be honest. I see people that I know in my life. Go on, give us the names.

No spoilers. i can't give you names but kind of if you i was gonna say if you know you know but it's kind of if you know you don't know because if you're this person listening they'll never think it's them because it's so it's just the sort of thing that you are blind to but it's that they try and fill in the gaps in their life with external markers of success which just leaves you fucking empty and starving hungry it's the analogy that i always say about um all of those external validation things are great they're so exciting it's so fun it's like advent calendar chocolate yes i don't think i made this up advent calendar chocolate yeah advent calendar chocolate so exciting oh my god can't wait like

hopefully i get more tomorrow morning it's delicious and it's so fun but it doesn't fill you up it doesn't leave you very satisfied but it kind of tastes a bit like shit though it tastes a bit cheap it's kind of a slightly cheap yeah it's slightly cardboardy nothing as is as valuable to you as like a big slab as like of like cabaret big slab yeah nice delicious that's the real shit that's the real um the shit that matters actually i was gonna say only because this is fresh out of therapy this morning and i think andy's got this from the same place and i don't know this woman's name she's a psychologist i can't remember her name it might be like kelly or like i'm not sure i think it's kelly kapoor or something like that like irene it's

something i have no idea i could find it but let's not it will set us back hours but i won't i think this is what andy is trying to say which is that um the confidence that comes from um all the external shit so the confidence that you can have from your the way that you place yourself in the world your job the way that you look the things that you have for example might be your self-esteem it could be narcissism the quiet confidence that andy is talking about is self-compassion i love it it's that no matter what yeah no matter what you can see yourself and feel worthy because you love you give yourself everything you once desired from others now give it to yourself now now done tick done did it completed it mate it's a good one right it's so

true it's all well and good having all of this self is all of this confidence but if you're not being compassionate to yourself what's the whole point means nothing everything that you have you it can go it can go in an instant and you therefore you don't really have it nothing is stable no sort of structures no job no relationship no friendship nothing is fucking permanent the only thing that you actually have is you so it's absolutely fucking pointless to base your confidence on things that can be ripped away from you are you mad yeah and the only thing you have is you so kind of it's a waste of time to not like you for any longer. This can only go on for so long.

And actually, I was going to say my biggest thing that I've learned in therapy, maybe there are loads of things, but I think ultimately it doesn't really matter the specifics. I think the main overarching thing for me that I've learned is that it's important for me to take even an hour each week to let someone listen to me. I don't mean the podcast. I mean that it's important for me to take even an hour each week to let someone listen to me. I don't mean the podcast, I mean, it's quite embarrassing that maybe

I technically do it twice. I need three to four hours of conversation a week. Maybe I need to do it twice. I do it once with a therapist and once on here, but. And I need thousands of people to listen to it. It's all I need. Don't ask for much. I need to be on the spotify trending list

just your undivided completely devoted attention three spots underneath oprah that's all i need but i think the main thing that i've learned from from therapy or the main thing that i get from therapy is knowing that it's worthwhile to all that i'm deserving of dedicating time aside to be nice to myself and it all of the nice little anecdotes and the little sound bites are great but it's the practice of investing in myself that is the best bit because actually i think those are the bits that the infographics of psychology on instagram or those are the bits that sephie and win can't teach you because you have to invest the time in yourself so if therapy is inaccessible to you maybe this can be your moment now for us to say to you that actually this is for you.

This life is for you and you're deserving of a great one. Yeah. And I would love to know how it's panning out for you. Can you send us like what you're up to? I hope things are going great. What's the vibes right now? I would love to know. It's Dudley special day for them all.

I fucking hope so. Make every day. Dudley special day. One of the questions that we asked on the story that i really liked was do you prefer control or chaos and i just love the topic of chaos because it's kind of relinquish all control and trust the timing of life which is just the mantra of the moment so i wanted to say to you what do you prefer control or chaos um i don't really know i kind of um let me think let me think about my answer before i go spieling a load of shite i think i like theoretically

prefer control but i actually think i enjoy chaos more yeah yeah i think you're living more authentically and freely when it is chaos because control is like comfortable but not fun yeah i'm one of those people that i think most people would say that i'm really laid back like kind of very lazy fair attitude kind of very nonchalant like does she ever care about anything that is just so not how i describe you at all that's because we work together though right yeah true it's because I'm kind of saying have you sent that blah blah well I'm very like organized and like structured in my like work and I have very I there's a lot of

pressure in like what I'm doing like making sure I'm getting things done like I'm very I'm on notion all day every day I would see you as a bullet journal kind of girl because i am a bullet journal kind of girl yeah because that is very much but in my um relate in in all of my life outside of my own like standard of like work i am very fluid yeah and very just like um go with the flow like i don't like too much of a I don't have a kind of what you're gonna laugh at that and I did it I did a nod to you in the video because I got there's so much lime in my drink you did a little gym moment honestly I just did a gym to camera because there's so much lime in my drink and I thought whilst you're editing the video you're

gonna see me literally choke on like a clump of lime i look forward to it what do you think control chaos vibes i was thinking about this i think my ego but let me actually just finish my point sorry and i'll just ask you a question i'll stumble over shut down stop interrupting god i can't wait to look through this episode it's gonna be an absolute mess yeah basically i think i don't really think about control and chaos that much because i think i've i've lived quite freely for most of my life and it's only are you choking on lime again there's someone trying to murder you is the bartender trying to kill you it's like there's um it's like orange juice with bits but you've got

kind of it's a gin and tonic with bits yeah it's just a mess i don't have a problem with control until it comes to like accepting that i can't i have a problem with like letting other people do things or like passing things over or not that i even think i'm gonna do it the best but it's kind of if someone's gonna fuck it up just let it be me and just like, let me do like a, just let me know that I've done it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? That's what I'm really controlling.

But also in kind of, that's kind of it. Like raise your hand if you were gifted and talented or whatever, like raise your hand, like kind of depressed, gifted child. It's the remnants of like being a smart kid that you have these like ridiculous standards for yourself. But I don't i i mean i can't think of anything worse than like a five-year plan or well that's the thing i like having kind of nice little goals that keep me going and i i just feel like i'm in quite a healthy place with goals and stuff so maybe you could talk to us about what it's like to not have healthy goals expose you well i was gonna say i think that's

when your goals and your organization moves into like being more of a prison it's like actually rather than just like a framework of what you can work within it's like oh no suddenly i'm like actually held captive by my own ideas of what i can achieve in my life and that's when you're fucked but i think i agree i i'm moving towards a more healthy attitude towards like um i guess aspirations for myself what i was going to say is i think my ego likes the idea of control of being like right i have this all in order i have this all in check but actually what my kind of soul heart essence being whatever word you're going to put on it i think i am most comfortable in chaos like actually my true essence is more comfortable

in chaos because i am well it's not nice to be stressing about things yeah i think i'm just prone to not planning not knowing what's going to happen in the day not really knowing how i'm going to feel kind of just manic i guess manic episodes i'm more prone to that so i think i just naturally thrive in that but then i think then when insecurity and all of that stuff steps in it's suddenly like right no let's get the let's get this organized but actually i think i'm letting go of that so much now yeah you are because also i think people got quite confused when we were talking about your four days off and i think i think we made it out like you were working really hard or like yeah do you know what i mean like we were making it out like you were kind of a workaholic which is not you're not this capricorn no not at all of a person yeah not at all it's

i'm not um i'm not about the kind of grind lifestyle i'm very much a work smart not hard kind of girl very much subscribe to that way of thinking i'm not that person that's gonna sit in the library for fucking 12 hours i'm in the library work get out and go to a cafe like i am so not i've been missing the library so much recently you're a grinder you work like you you'll sit there for hours and hours if i enjoy what i'm doing i'll do it all day if I enjoy what I'm doing yeah but I never enjoy work it's kind of the same with anything exactly well I enjoy playing the sims all day so in the way that I would enjoy playing animal crossing all day I would enjoy doing my work all day because I have a rare life where at this moment I'm working in something that I love that you want to do yeah something

that's a dream so it's like yeah it's not that I'm I find it want to do. Yeah. Something that's a dream. So it's like, yeah, it's not that I'm, I find it hard to stop because I find it hard to stop playing Animal Crossing when I'm really sucked in and I like I'm decorating my fucking room on the left and it's looking great and I just got a new bathtub worth a hundred bells or whatever, a hundred thousand bells.

Yeah. I love the work of things and that's so fun. But I think I always reach a point where it's like well I'd rather watch a movie yeah well I'd rather kind of do yoga whatever I want to do I'd rather go see my friend and I agree we're in kind of a rare position that it's like the work is it's fun on the most part blah blah blah it was that kind of um even like revision for exams and stuff for example my sister is someone that can sit there and she can do the work and she'll sit there and revise for like eight hours and you have a time color-coded timetable

and all of that i've never ever ever been that person i'm always the person that's kind of you're a last minute girl which people i'm tell you they're not gonna believe you why were they not because i've already made it out like i'm a spreadsheet girl because they think you're winning spreadsheet competitions i am as well i'm both i can be both yeah yeah yeah that's true i'm ever changing evanescent yeah human being you cannot understand me yeah but i think we all are both i think it's it's tempting to caricature people that you see on the internet not even it's just so hard not to it's and not even just people you see on the internet we do it kind of everything the way the whole way that we perceive the world is built on putting things into boxes and trying to make sense of things and if you tell me something if you tell me you were

doing a spreadsheet oh that's all i know i won't fill in the blanks with something you know foreign that i've never been told and i love a spreadsheet but also love a kind of scrappy scrappy scrapbook scrappy scrapbook see me all day cutting out pictures of ice cream sticking them on paper you'll see me all day doing that yeah it comes back to and i hate to bring it up because i feel like it's a bit of a broken record at this point it's kind of sephian wing parodying sephian wing like stunning harry yeah it is kind of identity and performance i i just kind of think it's not that deep like i will sit and spend hours doing something that i love and then also will love things so much and won't have done them in months and that doesn't mean i don't love it yeah it's when we start

thinking too closely about what we're showing people and how people perceive us it's identity you're right yeah and it all becomes it's just a bit too ego for me i just don't i don't care to present the right image do you know what i do you know what i mean it's kind of just like yeah sometimes catch me doing something sometimes not it's if you present the idea that oh i'm a worker i'm a i'm a real worker that's kind of all people know of you that's not the brand i want to put out no and also it's life is fluid there'll be points when people are workers point when people are slackers and also we're not fucking here to be capitalism's kind of bitch that's the thing that i don't and you shouldn't be yourself exactly yeah that's the thing that i get a bit scared of because i think this is my kind of imposter syndrome too and that i feel this episode is a fucking mess because what is this to do with therapy nothing

well acceptance chaos chaos is a ladder okay yeah oh yeah chaos chaos yeah go on chaos is a ladder of course identity i guess it all feeds into mental health and those kind of chats ah this is where my imposter syndrome and all this shit kind of kicks in because i i kind of resent there's a lot of guilt i think wrapped up in me being able to um i feel like i found a bit of a loophole i feel like i'm kind of conning the system by being able to make money off of something that i enjoy and having that like cross between being good at something and enjoying it and all of those things kind of working out and having all of the privileges work together and having all of the luck work together and then working hard on it all working

together to make something um work out for you when ultimately my overriding thought is I think it's disgusting that people have to work their whole lives away just to be able to buy some food at the supermarket and never get in a free hour i just find it hard to like find the right like balance in what i'm trying to um in what i want to say about my life or like what messages i'm trying to give because it's just a bit wanky to have kind of a girl on the internet say like, oh, and I just, it's just a bit wanky. Anyway, I have no idea what's going on. It's your life. Like, what do you want to say then?

Like, what is the thing that you're trying to say? Do you think it's wanky? My thing that I'm trying to say is that I think it's horrible that we, that the majority of people have to live miserable lives. that the majority of people have to live miserable lives because society told you that you're meaningless unless you were born into like the 1% or this minority of people that have an abundance of wealth and privilege and all of these things.

That's my overarching point. But I'm finding myself even this year at a point where I feel like my dream situation of how I would make money is happening. And I feel like it's so unfair because I'm so excited about it and so grateful and all this shit um and like everything that we do together so grateful and so like so fucking amazing and I genuinely believe that everyone should be able to have what they want but I always come back to that point of like but they don't and it's fucking

awful and like also what i've got right now is not permanent like um my life could fuck up tomorrow not that it's not already in the midst of fucking up i just kind of don't i i just like i just don't like it sometimes i think it's weird that sephie and wing were the ones to do this little podcast like i know we've said before when we look through people's messages and stuff it's like you if you want this you should you should definitely do it because you would be great at it and i realize how redundant that sounds then when you've got to work kind of 50 hours to like feed your kid or you don't have fucking time to sit down and like what you're gonna order a microphone like i get that it sounds ridiculous so i just feel like a bit of a wanker half the time when it's

like oh i get to kind of have my i just get to have a lot of different dreams work out whilst i think the world simultaneously the world is shit so make of that what you will don't know why that's in there coming off of that little rant um i love that this person said that the best thing that they the best therapy thing from them were or for them was that you can control your own narrative yeah yeah i like that because it's and lots of people were saying control the controllables and nothing else so fucking true i think there's so so much power in accepting that some things are just out of your control that is inherently they are nothing to do with you how other people feel about you um and pretty much everything else is nothing to do with you everything the only thing you can

control is you i was gonna say what do you think is what do you think is one thing that's important for you to control in your own narrative oh quite a deep question quite deep cue sorry i kind of think i'm starting to disagree with narrative as a whole as in personal narrative yeah just take a big shit on that listener just because I think one of sorry just punch them in the fucking face I just think one of the most damaging one of the most damaging things we do as humans is get attached to this narrative like the story of me the story of my life i think it's easy to slip into fiction and actually not what is actually happening in the present moment you fixate on the past and you fixate on the future about who you

were and who you want to be and actually you end up um kind of negating real experiences that are happening right now because you're fixated on a story telling yourself lies harry you must not tell lies literally harry must not tell lies you're fucking fucking whatever then dolores umbridge right on your own arm i must not tell lies you're a fucking bitch it turns out you're lying every minute of your life yeah i think i think narrative is that is damaging what do you think is the most damaging lie that you tell yourself? Oh, the most damaging lie. Even deeper than the previous question. Just when you thought I couldn't go any deeper. And I'm going to be, I think I just disagree with damaging lies.

I don't know. I don't know what the most damaging lie I tell myself is. Because I think it's just, they're too interwoven with my beliefs. But I think it's when I notice them in other people. That they're attached to certain things. Well, when was five this thing this person told me this thing and they've clung onto it and it's informed their identity or decisions they make now in their adulthood and i just sometimes think you're you're holding on to a narrative that is literally not serving you and also you could have easily forgotten and therefore it wouldn't be true there's something that every time you remember a memory it changes by like one percent or whatever it like there's something and i think if you've been telling yourself this same story for

what 17 years now or something yeah you keep rehearsing something it's kind of it's so manipulated now and it's so a fabrication of the truth that you're actually basing something not on your narrative or not on your story that is based on any truth you've written something essentially you've scripted yourself out a personality of something that happened to you when you were 15 and it's bollocks you're basing your present day decisions on something that didn't happen yeah i completely agree that is so fucking true i kind of hate when people do the whole like they think they are the something one yeah i'm just the like neat one.

I'm just neat. I'm just the neat one. It's the morning person thing. I'm just a morning person. It's like you've written yourself a story. Yeah. You've built your whole identity. Your whole,

the whole way that you view the world is off of kind of friends. You think that there has to be a pretty one and a funny kooky one and a neat one. Oh, and boy, how I'll perform that kooky one. Exactly, yeah. Till the cows come home, I'll be like, oh, I'm just the Phoebe. It comes back to living in that really prescriptive way

where, yeah, you do just have to let go and maybe just kind of see if you like the mornings and then you might just be a morning person. You won't have to talk about being a morning person. Or keep telling yourself, I am a morning person, right? Even with introvert and extrovert yeah or even just like i just don't really like ketchup i just hate ketchup oh the smell of ketchup things like that's like you don't know that was something you've invented when you were three and you've kept it going you've said that once sort of johnny's birthday party at three years old and you've just kept it going and you

ran with it eat some fucking ketchup i'm bored of you bitch yeah yeah like chill out with the story it's so true yeah it's little kind of jk rowling but i love their point i love your point your therapist is clever but turns out i'm smarter she's the smart one do you have a No, I don't have any points. I haven't had any points this whole episode, really. I just feel like I've just been responding, but that's fine. That's fine for me. Love the responses.

Yeah, I feel like I just haven't really looked at anyone's answers. My phone's in a ring line. It's hard to get to it. Well, let's go. I kind of want to apologize for whatever this has been yeah same but i guess i mean you are an autonomous being you could have clicked away and you didn't so i don't know what that says about you that's a shame you had nothing better to do than spend the hour with us but i'm glad you did um and i hope to see you next week yeah i really hope to see you next week did i

think we may have had a doing the work that we didn't do at the beginning so maybe we should just put that in now yeah what was it it was about just live doing something just for you just living kind of freely like not not performing basically we're just yoga every day for me but boring no already been through it you go on mine i feel like i'm about to open a new point but again it's something that i realized in therapy this is really messy now because we're wrapping and now look what i'm doing making a mess but basically to summarize i said to my therapist earlier that i feel like i treat myself like i'm an employee of myself oh so in the way that i kind of get to the end of the day and i kind of evaluate how was your performance today yeah you were in a good mood from 10 till 12 and then oh

what happened at 12 o'clock let's not do that again tomorrow your work production kind of went down a bit yeah exactly did you have trouble motivating around three okay yeah yeah oh you know i did you know um so i kind of just need to treat myself like a decent human being rather than an employee of my own kind of awful workforce the world's worst corporation literally a monster incorporated and also um it's that weird capitalist lens it's a weird thing to put a capitalist lens on your own life in that way and be like right okay the only structure i know of evaluation is based on a workplace so i'll go for that when in reality it's like right let me actually think from like a fluid place like how was my day oh i was up and down it was all normal well that's what i do but i take it too

far i i say like oh you were in a i it's too much navel gazing it's not good for the soul yeah yeah because i do the whole like you were in a bad mood like in the evenings like what are we gonna do it's just like sometimes just let it be like habit trackers love it sometimes let it be if you feel like it's just too damaging anyway i've said too much they scare me a bit habit trackers i love it i absolutely love it but am i treating myself like an employee sometimes i don't think i'm to be trusted with a habit tracker i don't to be honest as we said you like things that are bad for you and maybe you can find a way to make something good that is bad for you i don't think it's good for me to be ticking off.

Did you work out today? Tick. Did you do, did you meditate? Tick. Did you drink 10 glasses of water? Tick. It's like,

it becomes very quickly. It becomes, um, kind of stick to be yourself. I hate to say it, but spreadsheet, um, sort of spreadsheet.

Sefi's coming back. Madly productive times. Yeah. I think I'm better off just not knowing how much water I drink a day. Yeah. Fair enough. It just fluctuates guys so fucking true so fucking true okay well i'll see you next week yeah see you next week and i won't speak to you for a whole week bye am i gonna be hung over next week