Goes Without Saying - Accepting Your Mediocrity Self Sabotage Girls Unite

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on mirrorballing, masking, and defence mechanisms, identity crises, self-sabotaging, and a fear of failure vs. fear of success. ✷see more ✷ youtube@sephyandwing ✷ instagram @sephyandwing ✷ tiktok @sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk

Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Seffi and Wing. I'm Seffi. And I'm Wing. And this is quite an introspective episode from us. We get quite personal and we're talking about how to accept maybe like the darkest and like most intimate bits of yourself. We're accepting our mediocrity here. We're not perfect. We're just humans. I think this is a good one if you want to feel more comfortable with like the shittiness, the shit person that you are. basically. Hello. Whoa.

Look at us. Okay, so are we addressing just the huge thing here? Let's address the huge thing. Can you guys see a beautiful logo, a beautiful piece of artwork? Quite literally a portrait. Quite literally, yeah. What a ton of events. Truly, big thank you and shout at to Wing,

who has designed this with her bare hands. It couldn't look better. Like, it's shockingly, shockingly stunning. It is good, isn't it? So thank you so much. Thank you so much. Congrats. On honor.

Congratulations. Cheers to you. Cheers. Cheers. I do actually have a little tea. Yeah. It's cold. Cheers.

Cheers. Cheers. I'm feeling great about it, I have to say. Yeah. This has been a while in the making and it feels good to have it out. It does. We're recording this ahead of time. So I'm touching wood.

But like, if you're hearing this, then we're looking great. We're making quite big moves at the moment, I'll say. We're making emphasis on big. You'll know what we mean in a few days. Larger than life. Larger than life. There is a big thing happening. Big.

Big. That's your clue. It's massive. It's big. It's B-I-G. Yeah. Big. Also, something else happening.

Yes. Make sure you're following us or just like keeping tabs on our Instagram, even if you want to commit to following. Especially if you are based in London, dot, dot, dot, dot. There are some things maybe happening. So you should stick around if you want to also be in the happenings. And I personally want you to be in the happenings. Me too.

Make sure you're invited. You're cordially invited. Yeah, you are actually invited. So come on in. Yeah. So great times. We're looking good. How are we feeling?

We're feeling good. Oh my, I'm actually feeling incredibly. overwhelmed right now. Well as you know, I've been on a journey throughout the day. I started off being incredibly overwhelmed, almost having the moment of looking at my diary and being like, I think I'm going to cry. Yes.

And then I've dropped some things. That's good. And I know I'm feeling good. And I feel like it kind of this conversation today will be helpful because we're talking about like embracing mediocrity. Yes. Which is a great great reminder. Honestly, a recurring theme in my life of like.

Yeah. I, yeah, I need to get my head around that, you know? 100%. Well, I don't think I still, I'm not really, I'm in kind of disbelief. Yeah. I'm like, no, no, no, I can do it. I can do everything. But you can't.

No. Cut two, she could not do everything. No. Yeah, really fun things happening for us though at the moment. Very. I don't want to rush over this. We're in a very good space. I feel like, okay, so if you have been following the journey,

which I'm sure you have Harry. Like, yes. We've had a bumpy time recently. And I feel like we are landing on our feet. Like we have been without management for like, I think it's literally been like two months. Yeah.

Yeah. And as we say, this big B-I-G thing is happening soon. Maybe the biggest ever. It's definitely the biggest. Someone said to me, I actually, oh my God. So we haven't spoken. about this at all so you won't believe what you're about here yeah I was getting my

makeup done the other day goodness me why are you getting your makeup done that's fun I'm glad you asked at a look fantastic event oh my god I forgot you went to that yeah so I went to that it was really nice oh my god how was it um well I actually filmed some of it so oh my god is it going in the vlog oh um so I was like oh I need to fill you in because it's so weird that I've like, oh, and I put it on the story and I thought you're not going to see the story. I haven't seen anything. This is my sad thing about not being on Instagram. Have I said that on the podcast?

That I basically, I just had my reading week off Instagram. Like I was just like, I'm just completely going to log myself out for a week. And it was so divine. I came back here and just posted some shit that I took over that week and then have kind of fucked off again, which has been so nice. I feel like I'm just going to go on a couple times a week. But I just saved so much time, I think. That's fun. Yeah, I just feel like my life, my genuine day-to-day life is better.

That's my main takeaway. Well, you can't argue with that. Like, the actual... One thing you just biss out on, though, was these lovely stories. There was just a couple of things that I took at the fantastic event. Well, I've missed so much. Like... Did you? Yeah, I've missed so much.

You keep saying, like, someone said something about... Oh my God, I got a hinge message from someone the other day. This guy being like, oh, you're slandering skaters. And I was like, wait, what? What? I was like, sorry, sir? And what is that going on? And he said it was a thing on a real,

on your Instagram. We didn't slander at it. So I thought, so I, no, he said like you're infantilizing skateboarders. Are we? So what's, what's going on? So I didn't even go to check. I just thought, yeah, probably am. So I thought, oh, something's been posted about me.

Well, we did that lovely, right. Okay, so there's a lot going on here. So if anyone has been on social media in the past couple of weeks you will have seen a couple of weeks ago there was a big trend of like I met my youngest self for coffee yes yes yes yes oh my because it did a version of that for us on on instagram that was like I met we met our youngest self for coffee and they said like fuck off basically and I used a random video I know the one yeah yeah so I assume there's something about that but we never slandered anybody I hope I've also it was just weird

specific because I have some thoughts on like I've definitely had some crossovers I've dated a guy that was like a proper skateboarder in my life and I definitely have like some takeaways of like dating a skateboarder so I was like maybe I have said some of this well maybe yeah I guess we've touched on that on the pod he said it's a clip on Instagram so I was so confused basically I thought I do need to get back into this space because God knows what's going on over that no I haven't god I have no idea what that is okay okay so that's really interesting I don't know where that's come from then it's definitely a weird takeaway to look at that reel which is like we met our young ourselves for coffee and they were like hey or whatever infanticilise video of us skateboarding and that apparently is us infanticizing skaters how intriguing what I thought I probably have infanticize them I wonder what I've said I mean you probably have but not on instagram have we I don't know no I was just confused I just thought okay so I do need to have a look maybe but it didn't entreat that even that didn't pique my interest enough to go back at the moment how bizarre yeah well anyway so I was getting my makeup done

at the look fantastic of it Oh I wish I had gone now That sounds so nice Well I feel like if you were there I probably wouldn't have No no but also Just the thing of someone came up to him Was like do you want to sit down and get some touchups

And I was like you know what I'm actually very sweaty So yeah let's do it She was great Her name was glam by Susie I think Hey Susie

She was great She was chatting all about the pod Etcetera And I brought this up Because she said to me any big things that have happened recently, like any exciting achievements, and I said...

There's one. There's something big happening, but, you know, you guys don't know that right now. So, anyway... If you're listening after the weekend of the sixth... Then you might be in the loop. Then you might know.

I said it to the makeup artist because I was kind of like, this is probably, in terms of like, outside looking in, like third party, like milestones being able to check off. It's clearly impressive, I would say.

Did you say it's clearly impressive? Yeah. You force my hand. There's, you know, we have no choice, but to congratulate us. Clearly impressed.

Like, it's fucking mental. Like, it's, like, guys, it's obviously mental. No,

we're clearly impressive. It's definitely mental. That's one way of putting it. So yeah, I'm really excited for that. And it really feels like a big deal. And I'm like happy for, I can't wait for everyone to be like,

oh my God. It would just be a nice moment. Also, I think a big thing with the big thing. is that we, so basically if you're listening to this after that, after that day, after the 6th of March, 2025, just go and look at our Instagram and you'll see what it is. But, or like 7th, maybe, I don't know when we're posting it. I mean, it's the 7th. Seventh of March. The thing is happening on the 6th, but we're posting on the 7th is the plan. Yes. But like, this was one of

the things. So at the very beginning of the year, we were like, what are some things we would want for the year? And this was one that felt like attainable, but, but, but, but, but, the very beginning of the year, we were like, like, But like never had anything had anything like this. We could do it. Maybe like, I don't know, hopefully towards the beginning of the year. It has happened straight away. Like it couldn't have been more. And you know why?

Don't ask. Don't get. This has only happened because we forced it to be basically. Generally. By like pushing doors, that opening doors. Not like, not not. Is anyone in that? Hello.

Open the door. We're here. And it was an immediate. Yes. Which also I think we're used to. or like pushing. Things like this that do feel big feel like you can ask and they'll say no and it'll take a few times. What struck me was it was ask, yeah, cool, it can happen this day. It was like, wait,

what? There wasn't like anything to prove. There was nothing to push up against. It was just like, thank you. Something we can say actually, and I know we've said this, we've like touched on this bit by bit, but obviously we've moved to Spotify and I can say that the things that we're talking about here is about Spotify. Yeah. And like it was the kind of thing where we started this conversation and not just like, oh yeah, you can do that. But it's like, oh, no, no, we want to do that for you.

Like being like, they're very proactively supporting us. Massively. So, yeah, anyway. It feels really nice. It feels honestly so, yeah, it's actually like so great. So thank you, Spotify. Thank you, Spotify. And thank you to you, Ms.

Stephanie Deacon. And thank you, Ms. Erin Amarale. Thank you. And thank you to you, Harry. Okay, so on that note, obviously everything's going well for us right now. Well, it is and it isn't. Like, no, it is and it is.

It objectively is. And I've got to say it again, it's objectively cool. The thing that's- It's objectively insane, actually, some may say. Also, I was speaking to Alice today on the phone and she said, what will be your feeling when you walk towards this thing? Oh, Jesus. And I said, I think surely it's tears.

Do you think? And what I said, surely it's tears, and then she was like, but it might actually be quite like, surreal. You might not be able to, like, actually take it in. Yeah, I think it's just going to be really surreal. I think I'm going to cry. I think I'm going to be laughing and crying at the same time. Like, I think I would cry.

If I wasn't on the antidepressants I'm on, I would be crying. Okay. I'll cry from both of us. Yeah, I might need to have my tears. I don't know if I will, because sometimes things don't hit me. Like, sometimes I just get so, like, weird and out. intriguing but I do really feel yeah extra proud of us and also like I think the thing that puts it into perspective is being able to like look back at where it started and like the little things of like

obviously we're in our real lives that we're living in our lives and we live and we're experiencing things in our heads and whatever and so we know that there's like a lot of other shit that comes with whatever we're doing or like there's a way of looking at our lives that is kind of like oh well you know a good thing could happen to you but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're doing really well like whatever but i do think something like really amazing happening to us and being able to like look back at where we started this like at that end of uni point like those girls in that house yeah if we would have said oh oh no no no it's insane it's insane that would have been all the confirmation i needed and more that i can't think back to those girls that like they would have really been like everything else is irrelevant that is proof I

wouldn't have been able to argue it now I'm experiencing it hasn't even happened yet I'm already able to argue yeah I'm telling people about it and I'm like they're like why do you seem so chilled about that and I'm like because it doesn't mean anything I'm like they don't nobody knows who we are and like this is nothing da da da and like the way that I'm able to diminish it yeah because it's us living it yeah it's really crazy it's actually insane Like, yeah, it's really weird. Yeah, and almost like sometimes you can know something to be true and that you can have the sentence.

The sentence sounds great, by the way. We'll be able to say it next week. Oh, it sounds amazing. The sentence, yeah, sure. But the feeling a lot of the time is like absent, really. Like, it's only moments where I'm like walking or something where I suddenly get the thing of like, ooh, okay, whoa, that's like a thing we did. Yeah.

That's a thing that's like. And I do think I feel the feeling when I think of, how much like we were hungry girls back in Whipping and Road in Brighton when we lived together like we when we first started this like we wanted God we wanted it like when I think back to them I do feel the feeling of like fucking hell same I definitely feel like fucking hell but it is kind of also in terms of like the letting things go vibe it is the kind of thing of I'm definitely feeling like when things are going well or when things feel like they're coming together I also feel hyper aware of just my inability to like accept when things are going well like I am always

coming from a place of like well if it's going well now then that means it's just it's not going to last exactly yeah something's on its way to fuck me over sort of thing and even like I was actually thinking this recently this is one of my big things is almost this is like okay so I'm taking it to a deeper I'm taking it to the pits now that you don't mind I definitely have a running thing of I have a belief in my being that you can like me we can have a relationship whatever we can be you know on good form whatever we you know you could love me yeah and then you will decide to not love me anymore like when you see me or like whatever something will show you really not a good belief just like I have I'm just bringing you into my simple

I have a belief that like you might like me you might think you like me but when you get to know me you will leave you will have to about you'll have no choice and I will have forced your hand to abandon me it's a really um it's easy to track where it's come from I'm not that surprised yeah I'm not surprised like yes I yes yes yes yes Yes. Yes. And so it's fed, I think, into this inability to like accept when good things are happening to me. Or even more so, I definitely feel like this is something I'm like actively working on this year is like not being afraid of who I would be if things were going well.

Like almost I have such an identity of like I don't deserve good things to happen to me. Sorry. There's all these. No, no, no. This is so. But I think I sabotage myself a lot. Because first of all, admitting that I want something good feels like, well, I'm not allowed to do that. And second of all, it's scary to be like, I want this good thing.

Because then if I get it, I don't think I'd be okay with it. Like, I find it hard to stomach good things happening or being seen as somebody who good things happen to. No, I can- Tracking that. I completely get it because also I think that has been my main takeaway from getting good things. things. I think I have identified as someone that like would be comfortable with success and would be comfortable with like being like you know doing a good thing and I'm not necessarily even saying we're super sick like we're not. I think I genuinely think like oh yeah that would be something that I would

be good at but every single time things go well yeah I'm I don't I literally it's not I feel bad it's that I don't allow myself I just think it's I'm so much more like comfort like comfort with being someone like even like in my like really close relationships I'm so much more comfortable and I know how to act when I'm asking for advice and I'm you know um struggling I feel that's when my relationships really thrive with people when I'm not doing well and everyone can like support me and I'm so grateful for that those relationships but the thing that I struggle with more is when I'm doing really well I don't even know how to like talk to people I don't know how to like feel about myself. I don't know how to feel about the things. I'm like riddled with fear,

kind of confused about who I am. Like it's a whole, it's so uncomfortable. Like, it's really uncomfortable because I think it goes against my whole identity, like my whole understanding of myself, which when I think in my right mind, I'm like, no, no, no, that can't be right. Like, come on now. But if I'm actually honest with myself, when someone say to me like, oh, well done, that's really good, or like, oh my God, that's so cool. Can't feel a thing. I feel a thing. I feel. I feel. I feel a thing and it's discomfort. It's like, no, no, no, it's not cool. It's like, no, no, no, you've got the wrong end of the stick.

Like, no, no, I'm actually not very good. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, no, no, you've read that completely wrong. I'm actually a failure. Like, how could you possibly think I'm doing well sort of thing? I'm like, no, no, you've made a mistake. Or like, I've tricked you into thinking that I'm okay. I actually, also recently, sorry, I'm really like, this is just my insides.

Let it let it out. someone relatively recently okay go on what no just what did they say what did they do they were like

it's not bad okay okay I was getting ready to wage war I just know how I feel about it so I think I'm just kind of changing my perception of myself always just shape shifting

before my very eyes who is she who is she somebody said to me I oh I need to be careful how I say this they were like I oh oh god okay

that I'm putting them in it or like that I'm taught I don't want them to I don't want them to see themselves in this and then be like oh no did I say the wrong thing you didn't it's not about you it's always about me yeah yeah everything you say to me is always about me um okay so this person was like oh I thought I would really

relate to you but I actually um really admire you like I actually feel like I don't relate to you and I think you're more aspirational it's a lovely thing to say to somebody. Yeah, that is nice. But it's also uncomfortable in a certain way. I think I have tried and tried and tried and tried and then tried some more to like put on this thing of someone who is functioning

so much so that I have tricked you into thinking not only am I doing okay but I'm actually aspirational. And all I wanted is for you to like me and now I've made myself unrelatable. but so wow I've really fucked that one up no no no but I don't I think you're looking at it wrong I think you should take people well it's not much more comforting it's in a way worse but you've looked at it wrong here's the way I would approach this I feel like a use a thing that I think we should all try and do more is take people at their word like rather than like going through and being like oh no I've tricked you like actually this is on me it's like okay so if someone was me, they find me aspirational. I'm going to, I'm going to believe you, okay? Like, I'm not going

to think, oh no, fuck, I've tricked you into thinking I'm aspirational. They do for whatever reason view me as aspirational. Like, this girl does view that. And I think that's, it's kind of maybe more uncomfortable, especially when it's coming from a relationship where you are coming in as possibly equals. I want you to relate to me. I don't want you to aspire to me because I know that's not friendship. I know that you shouldn't. I know that you shouldn't aspire to me. Like, no, but they should. They should aspire to you. Like, in different ways to you what you think.

Like, I think my problem with that would be that I don't want to be having a conversation with someone that is aspiring to be like me. You know? My problem with it is like, I'm obviously not being true to myself. No, but you're, the true you is aspirational. No, no. Sefi, that's absurd. Why? The true me is not aspirational.

Like, well, look, I'm sorry. I know the true you. I'm friends with the true you. No, no, there's something that I'm giving off wrong. No, what to me? I don't want this as well to be like, oh, boo-hoo. No. Oh, I'm really struggling with the fact that I'm aspirational at all.

I just more so am annoyed at myself. No, but why is it bad to be up? Like, I... No, no, no, it's not even that. It's just, I don't, I want you to... I want to be liked and I want to be understood. I want to be related to. I want to share something.

Yeah. But because I feel like that is out of reach me and I have to like pretend to be someone else or pretend to be better than I am so that people will relate to me with this person in particular I've actually pretended to be something good

so much so that now they don't relate to me they actually aspire to me. And now I feel like I'm... I feel like... I feel like... What have I done here, city girl? I think you conflate your lowest points as the true you. Yes, yes, totally.

But like, so the true you, I know, look, I feel like I'm as inside as they get. I'm inside. I'm in the club, okay? I am in a circle. Your Bo Burnham inside. I am. And what you're telling me that I don't know the true you, I do. I know, like, yes, there are sides of you that you keep very private, yes.

But I know them. That's so, like, concerning. I know. It's sides of you that you keep very private. No, you do. No, there are. That's not up for debate. You do.

No, no, it's not up for debate. Yeah. Yeah. I'll scoot from the rooftops. It's kind of, you know, gone. But that doesn't mean that because there are those moments that you're not aspirational, like, you are, like, totally, 100% that were, like. But, yeah, all right, fine.

So I've got an issue. But I do think when someone tells you, I look up to you, you should believe that. See, but now then I also hate that it's like, oh, and this is the episode where I say, oh, I find it really hard for people to look up to me. Well, I'm here saying I don't. Yeah, no, good. You don't know, too right? Like, which one's more hateable?

I feel like mine is more hateable. No, no, it's better for you to not. I'd rather you relate to me than I think I, yeah, I think I just feel like I find it hard. There's a level of like vulnerability that I find hard in the sense that yes, I think my truest self is like being the worst bit of yourself. Yeah, that's how I view myself. That's like when I'm like, okay, that's the real you. All the other stuff that I've put on top of it and presented to everybody. is a lie.

Yeah, no. So, but then in doing that, I've made myself unrelatable because I only show people this like tight version of me maybe. And it... Yeah. Yeah, I got lost there, but... No, no, no, but I think that is relatable in itself, I must say. But I fucking hope so, because Jesus Christ, that's all I'm living for.

No, like, I think it is. Like, and also there's elements of that that everyone does. Like, everyone has a version. Like, I don't show my true self, slash lowest point, to anybody. People, to any old, to any old person. Like, any, but like, yeah, to any old Tom Dick and, sorry, Harry. Harry, is it Tom Dick and Harry? Tom Dick and Harry, yeah, yeah.

That's an interesting trio. Yeah, because I remember doing the Canterbury Tales and I think they appear in that. The Tom Dick and Harry. But, like, I don't think you should, that doesn't make. make anyone feel unrelated. I feel like I don't feel any desire or need to show anyone that isn't completely trustworthy

those moments because it would feel completely unnatural to my truer self. Like it would feel completely natural to get on here on like a public thing or speak to someone at the bus stop or speak to someone who I don't know that well about like deep internal things because those things are like beyond precious.

Like that vert like all of this stuff is not it's not safe you know like it's completely completely personal and I don't give that freely and that feels true you know like and I don't care if it would make me feel more relatable to give that because it's not it would go against me to give that to them like to just general people like even if it would make them like me more or whatever I don't frankly care which maybe is horrible and I do want to be like to I do all of that stuff like I have all of the stuff like no no but frankly I don't care that is you I

I know, I don't, when it comes to those, like, my most intimate personal stuff, which really is like, my family, like my history, you know, all of this stuff, that is like something that comes above, to be honest, like my life, like, it comes above everything. So, like, of course I'm not, I don't, it comes across, comes above, like, my feeling of, like, I want people to relate to me. Yeah. Like, that's so, my deep stuff. Like, have I almost give, have I, have, of, have I, have, of, have I. I tried to warp myself into something that isn't me because I felt like who I was wasn't right.

And in doing that, the warped version of me isn't right either. Right for what? Well, I don't know. Because I think it's all you. Like, it's the whole thing is you. Like, I would feel like I know the warped you. I know the real you. You do.

You do. You don't know. I'll give you the, yeah, all right. Yeah, you've got the BIP pass. But like that. Thank you. Going backstage. But I feel.

like, like it. Stay out. Warning, turn back. Is that not like, it's all part of everyone. Like, it doesn't mean that that part of you isn't you.

Because like, yes, there'll be points where people like put on a front and like all of the stuff. It's like, yeah, that's still just me. That's just me where the defense mechanism like sort of work. I think it's just kind of,

I've been having these alarm bells recently. No, I do get it. Of what? I do get it. Like, yeah, of like, I.

I'm almost, yeah, overcompensating so much that I'm building this reputation of like, oh, you're really on it and like, oh, you're really good at this thing and like, oh, yeah, you're like really good at that. I think you are. At Medcan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health, from the big milestones to the quiet winds. That's why our annual health assessment offers a physician-led, full-body checkup that provides a clear picture of your health today and may uncover early signs of conditions

like heart disease and cancer. The healthier you means more moments to cherish. Take control of your well-being and book an assessment today. Medcan, live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. You are, you are, you are, you are. And you know, like, you're in a weird head space right now. No, no, no, but, right, for example, Grace Beverly,

ever heard of her? Yeah, I'm familiar. I would look at her and be like, you're so on it, you're so on it, you're so on it. Yeah. And then she, I remember once probably like 10 years ago, she just said in passing, oh, I'm only this like, kind of, what's the word? She's like hyper-organized. Yeah, I'm only this hyper-organized because without it, I'm really lazy and I'll just fall apart sort of thing. And I was like, great, you don't get it.

Whatever. Yeah, right. And then over the past year, I've been like, maybe I am more like that. that I am like overcompensating so much. This is not important, guys, but anyway. No, well, it is important. It's almost like, oh, I've built a whole thing out of overcompensating. That's interesting.

Okay, I'll just let it go. Because I can't accept my own shortcomings, my inevitable failures of my existence. Yeah. I can't handle it. And so in doing that, in not being comfortable in who I am with myself, I've allowed myself, I've stopped myself now from being able to benefit from the love of others of sharing my lowest point. Like, oh, you know, not just with anybody, but that vulnerability also is a luxury that now I don't have access to because I've closed it off. Yeah, I think it can be more of a thing of less about like those top moments of you.

those are so you like you are you do have like like for example grace beverly like she is someone that is hyperorganized yes maybe it came from like she feels she's lazy or whatever but she she is all of those things she is girl boss 101 like she is CEO of everything yeah of of British girls basically she kind of is the leader like and yes it may have come from the stuff but those stuff that stuff is still there like all of your top moments are still there like all of the stuff that you have built in as the defense mechanism are still there yeah yeah But I think it doesn't need to be as because this other bit is blocked almost. Like, yes, it might have been a symptom of this. But I think it's like, believe people when they say they admire all of this stuff because that stuff is real. There is also just another bit, which like the vulnerability of opening up and sharing this bit, the lowest moment. I feel like that is the bit that's the concern here.

Like the top bit people being like, you're, I aspire to be like you're whatever this girl said. Like that could be true. like yes she might not know about these other things but that doesn't mean that those stuff is the good stuff is void because of the bad stuff yes very enlightening Seffi thank you genuinely I don't know very good so I'm getting absolutely blindly god I've suddenly like

if you look at the video now I've suddenly turned into God like I've just you want to close something off or I do god I'm sort of about to be taken up to heaven I think that is helpful thanks Seffi lots to think about yeah that is really helpful thank you I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. No, no, you're right, though.

You're on to something. I think it's bridging the gap between these different versions that I have of myself of someone who's like in six week old pyjamas and like not functioning. And then someone who is very much functioning. And it's like, oh, we're doing this big thing this week. And it's like, oh, we've got a new look for the podcast. It's like, whoa, what you doing? Like, but also both can, like, I do genuinely think both have to exist at the

the same time because I well unless I we're talking about like one of you has to go literally and I know which I know which one but like if we're talking about like polarisation of life you know I definitely struggle with this a lot of like my life is split in two essentially like yes my life is very um

I can't I actually like it's I can't really go any further into it but like my life is completely there's this I kind of um I don't know I've never thought of this before but it's just rid of why would I think of it but it really is the myth of perephi like I kind of live six months in the underworld and six months in the freedom like I have incredibly real shit going on and like then it feels like yeah a thing on whatever this thing is happening feels really trivial and shit but I do think like a thing I've had to come to and I was speaking to like my family about this as well of like just in the moments of like when it's going well because there is this like undercurrent

of other stuff going on all the time and we'll go on for the rest of life life it doesn't it makes it more urgent to enjoy the good stuff yeah like and it is really tricky because it what it actually does is kind of stops you from enjoying it because you always feel like disaster is about to strike but I think what I actually come to as I get old like sort of grow with my life and like sort of come make sense of things i think it's actually it means the trivial things of like oh this is slightly better like things that maybe would be like stressful for people sometimes become bit fun it opens up like um a playfulness into the into other things because there's actually like a big old other thing going on yeah yeah i know that is so not

like what you want like that's so cryptic and nothing. No, I think that is, it's landing. Okay. I think that makes sense. I think you can read between the lines, Harry, like, that it's about, it's just a weird kind of identity of almost like,

what, which is the real, sort of thing. Yeah, who is the real me? I'm like, what defines you? What experience is, it's weird how I'm like, oh yeah, that must be the real version of me, the bad one, the shitty one.

But also like, but then I'm like, but that's the one that I want to receive the love and validation. Almost like... Well, that's the one that needs it. Totally. Starved. Yeah.

Totally starved. Yeah. Yeah. But I completely get that. Like... I know. Because I, yeah, I think I kind of think that in terms of like, yeah, the real bits of life are the shit really hard bits.

Totally. And anything else is trivial, doesn't matter. And in a way, it kind of doesn't. Yeah. But it's light. Yeah, it's light and it's fun. And actually that should have a weight. to it as well like that should um that does it does actually matter like it really does 100% it's also the

thing i remember speaking about this like maybe at the tail end of last year talking about like events and stuff we would go to like really cool influencery events and it made me feel weird for a few reasons and i remember talking about class at the time of feeling like i now don't feel entitled to like my childhood like that feels like the real me of like growing up in a working class life and family and that's what I know versus now being in like a new space but not feeling entitled to that either and so just like floating and a void where like I've like dampened there's just nothing to me now like I what is that weird kind of amalgamation of things sort of thing no yeah it's very strange also that space is heightened to fuck like that is actually that's in a certain way

a dystopian space like strange it's incredibly like strange kind of confronting i think that yeah that it's not a comfortable space generally i actually do love i actually do love it and i was thinking so as i say the look fantastic event i went on my own it was the first one that i hadn't done with you i can't believe we haven't spoken about this yet like i actually do you know like it was really cool it was like beautiful event it was like a wedding like everything was like beautiful there was like beautiful flowers etc beautiful food etc and you get free shit like that's kind of the key which is like bloody yeah that's the key you know i wouldn't complain Yeah.

I, okay, what I do find easy is getting free stuff. I find that very easy. Yes. Oh my God. When someone hands me a thing of free stuff, I'll take it. I feel good about it. But we are to say. I don't feel bad.

And I'll rinse it. Like, I will squeeze that packet out to do its maximum. That is fine by me. I've, you know, I'm not struggling. Oh, I get so successful. I can't. No. No.

I find that really uncomfortable. No, no. You will not him complain about free things. Ever. Free stuff. Yeah, I welcome it. Yeah. But, yeah.

Yeah, being in an environment where like, it's almost the awareness of, and I think this is particularly true for us at the point that we're in, where it's like, I'm kind of here by the skin of my teeth. Like, I'm not like, here. I'm not, Molly May. But also, I would find it, I think also the bit of me is that I don't aspire to matter in that space. That's also one of the problems. It's just a really interesting, there's a really weird dichotomy because part of me is like,

this is exactly where I want to be. Like, I want to be in a room where like these kind of beautiful girls, are here and there's beautiful flowers and there's beautiful food um and people are being really sweet and it's just quite nice they had um ivies oh my god like but i didn't do it because it was like fully like everyone was kind of that i would be intrigued to do i know i was intrigued i would want the test before to be like tell me what i'm deficient in and tell me like i think it's a guy walking around like essentially like a he was like in scrubs and i was like okay it's interesting yeah it was really cool I'm going to need to see some documentation.

I need to see some doctor. Certificate from you from a medical school. This quote, unquote, doctor. Yeah. Yeah, there's a part of me that's like, this is exactly where I should be. Because I know I would have been like, oh, I wish I want to be there. I want to be there. Yeah.

Then there's another part of me that's like, I know how easily, like, in most versions of this life, you're not in that room. And like, that's fine. It's just weird. Yeah. It's just very weird. Very like. It is weird.

Yeah. It's not, they're not big problems, but it is that weird. Like, when you have an awareness of thinking about like social issues in class and we have this like critical eye on the influencer space in general, it is something that is really confronting, I think, for us to be in. Yeah. Simultaneously. Yeah. There's, there are a really, really weird space. Like, they really, they really are.

Like, there's actually kind of no way around them. Like, they're super strange. It's a queue of people waiting to get photos. and given stuff and taking videos around it's really weird like it's objectively like a jarring space to be in if you were walking out

yeah and some of them are incredible like the film ones the theatre ones all of the stuff but like yes I definitely have been extremely jarred going into some of these things because you see them on Instagram the whole time these events they feel mystical they're a mystical kind of land when you're in them there's a real strangeness

to it and it does feel, to me it feels capital from Hunger Games. It feels, there's a real, there's a dystopianness to it. And there's something, I think that's what I find jarring about it. Like, it's not necessarily like a space that I'm like, I want to be here. You know, like on like a game, like video game style when it's like you can see the enemies are in red or something on the map. Yeah. I think I go into those spaces in red.

Like I walk into the room and they're like, there's an enemy. Me. Like they, I go into the room and it's like, oh, everyone. enemy. Everyone knows that I shouldn't be here, that sort of thing. They don't. Well, that's, that's not in anyone else's head. And also, I mean, literally from the, like, in literally no way. The only reason we shouldn't be there is because it's literally like, who the hell are you? Like, literally who are these people? Or just the whole thing about it is just like, I, and this is kind of my thing with 20-25 is I want to get a little bit more comfortable with like good things. Yeah.

I'm feeling entitled. I keep using that phrase, but it feels quite aggressive. It feels like a, it's not like a very forgiving phrase. I feel entitled to it. It's not something that that doesn't roll off my tongue naturally to feel entitled to something. But that is kind of the energy that I want to get into a little bit more in 2025 of like some sort of ferocity to my emotions and like backing what I want like underlining my desires and not backing down on them. Like putting them forward and being like yes, I'm making this demand of the world. I look forward to receiving thanks. Yeah. Do you I mean. Yeah, no, 100%. I think it's just like actively pursuing and also like taking the moment to enjoy when you do get it, which I think is the bit personally, I think maybe I slash I'll put we are lacking.

Totally. That like I was writing in my journal the other day like, we've got this big thing that's going to happen. We're going to see this thing next weekend. Oh my God. And I was like, I need to schedule, make time to feel this because either way it will pass either way

whether I feel it or not whether I have you know enjoy it or not it will be two weeks ago a month ago six months ago a year ago that was a thing we did either way time is passing

so I need to feel it and that does not come naturally I don't even know how to go about feeling good about something I've done thinking I am doing The sentence and the feeling are completely separate. There's literally a fucking wall in between them.

I need to just take my own advice slash Russ Harris advice. What's the emotion? Oh, there's something in my belly. Oh, it's in my head. Like, I need to actually feel the fucking feeling of it because I have not done that. And it is the classic thing of like moving that goalpost, always pushing it back of like, oh, there's an achievement. That would be incredible if somebody did that and then you do it.

And it's like, not me though. Push that back. Not until I get this thing. And then you get that thing. And it's like, no, no. know not until I get this thing and always stalling the like validation for yourself putting it off. I was thinking about that the other day because we were number 11. Our episode, we had were number 11th episode in the UK the other day.

Lovely, lovely place to me. Lovely number. You might have listened to that episode yourself, Harry. It was called dating straight men or something, challenge level impossible. How to date straight men, colon, challenge level impossible. Very good, yeah. Great title from wing. And I saw we were number 11, as usual, say it with me, didn't feel a thing.

Like, I kind of saw it, kind of was like, oh my God. Yeah, genuinely is it in yet? It's like, why can't I feel the feeling? Because if you had told me a day ago, you're going to, you're going to. I'd be like, oh, I want it, I want it, I want it. But then when you have it, it's, oh, it's so strange. Okay, this actually leads us into a different conversation that I think you might want pick back up on personally, Sephard, because I feel like this is kind of something and in your

remit of things that you enjoy speaking about desire. Kind of specifically. Desire. And kind of the idea that what is more desirable than, for example, the sex itself is thinking about the sex. And being in the state of desiring is more desirable and rewarding and fulfilling than having the desire be fulfilled. Yeah.

And so sexually it's like why people, for example, like being kind of humiliated or like denied is to be like in a playful sense, not in a consensual, like in a consensual way. This idea. Yeah. I deny you. I deny it. But it's because it's more emotional and fulfilling and pleasurable and desirable to stay in that state of desire. Yeah.

Than to have that want be fulfilled. Yeah. And it is kind of then. if you want to loop her back, it's kind of, it's the climb, it's the journey. Like, the whole journey of getting to a goal ends up being more rewarding and fulfilling than that tiny 10 minutes where you got the goal itself sort of thing. It's totally about the journey there. I have a thing to say, as you knew I would, and it's going to come up with, it's a random

name being introduced here. Don't think he's ever come up on the podcast before. Why would he? All right. It's Kurt Cobain. It's going to judge. All right. So, I.

I watched a documentary about Kirk Cobain when I was really young, I don't know, like, I used to love, I used to really, really, really like Nirvana. Yeah, right. Because I think my dad used to play and I used to really like it. Identity. Yes, lovely. I watched a documentary. It's called, I think I watched it was like 1415. The documentary is called Montage of Heck, I remember.

Don't really know what that means, anything. Documentary. Maybe a lyric somewhere. Probably a lyric. I don't know. I don't know it that well. Just about Kirkabain. I don't know whether it was in that documentary or that then spun me on a journey of research.

A rabbit hole. Yeah. But I remember him saying that the best times, oh, my video stopped. I was back. The best times for him, like when he was on like the high of being in Nirvana and like all of the stuff it going so well, he was never as happy. Yes. As the time when he was like trying to buy a CD. I remember him being like, I was trying to buy this CD and I didn't have enough money for him.

would be like counting coins trying to buy this CD and like those moments were the happening should have ever been. And like rehearsing in garages and stuff was more fulfilling than the stadiums or whatever. And it's like also when you look at what happened to Kurt Cobain, rest in peace, King. Rest in peace, truly. Like there is a lesson for us all. No, no, there is. It's kind of, um, we know the top of the mountain is not very sweet. Like that's what It's the lesson they've been telling us for like so fucking long. Yeah. Like when you get there, you look around and you're like, eesh, eish.

You might have a nice time at the top of the summit. It might be a nice summit. You might have a, you know, a little cheers, a little photo, little moment. But wouldn't you feel even better if you knew that you had taken a little bit of pleasure and pride in the journey of going up the mountain? Yeah. Do you know who this really is? this is like, go on.

This quote could just make me flippin' cry. And this name definitely has been mentioned on the podcast before. But it's Andy Bernard saying, how, what is it? You know you're in the, how do you know if you're in? I wish there was a way to know you're in the good times, the good old days before you've left them.

And it's like, yes. Because also that's what I think about us in Whippingham Road when we were these two like, babies. We were like 21, 22 year old girls being like, like we want this thing and like screaming over getting like a fucking Instagram follow from like someone that we didn't know like just ridiculous. Remains unnamed.

I don't even know. Or like writing down follow higher pre-stess in the girls' toilets at Sussex uni. Like mental. Yes, those were the good old days. Like, and also maybe we're in the good old days now. I think we are. Yeah. Yeah.

I also think, I don't know if I said this on the podcast recently, but I know we've been talking about it. just kind of with the ups and downs of life. And we've had a conversation recently. We were saying, like, I feel like life meets you where you're at. Like, you'll be dealt the things that you can handle for now, and you'll handle them. Keep clawing and cloring and cloring and cloring and then you make it up a level and you claw and claw and then you make it up a level. Like, there are certain things that, for example, you'll self-sabotage your way out of or like things just won't be lined up for you if you're not in a position to receive them. and that doesn't necessarily mean you're in the wrong place now.

I just think, keep doing your best and look forward to the good things that are on their way because I do always think there's like really rogue, insanely hilarious, amazing things coming towards you. They're on route. Oh my God, they're right around the corner.

Honestly, they're right around the corner. But I am the classic person of, I'll check my deliveroo every five seconds. Is he here yet? Is he here yet? Is he here yet? Is he here yet? It's like, just wait. He's on his way. He'll make it, I swear. Yeah. And also when he does arrive, enjoy it. Like, totally, don't rush it. That is the crucial bit because either way, it's going to pass. Like, either way, this will be a thing that did happen one day. So you might as well just fucking enjoy it. Like, totally. The least you can do is enjoy it. That's, that's the only thing you need to know. Time is fucking passing. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, that's us then. Okay. Kind of a weird episode. I like it. I like. it okay yeah I think I like it as well do that was all right all the stuff I said is it a bit

like oh fuck off yeah no not at all no where's that come because I don't I don't think so at all I think it's like I've been thinking it for maybe a year yeah I mean I think that's so fair it's more it's more unlikable for me to be like I do see why people would say I like yeah believe them you know doesn't mean that's unlikable of you it's exactly what I need to hear as it doesn't mean that I think I'm aspirational but I believe them when they say that they think that. Because also, I would say to Miley Cyrus, I aspire to be like you, just like you, queen, queen, queen. And she would probably be like, oh, God, she doesn't know the real me. No, Miley, I'm talking about Miley Cyrus.

Right. So you're saying there is something valid in there to be aspired to. There's something valid in the performance anyway, but there is also something valid in like the core, the depth, the horrible stuff. The terribleness. There is definitely value in that. and I think when someone says I aspire to be like you or your aspiration to me that's not a failing of you that you presented some fake version it's that they they like they are reading something is anyone taking notes whether you think that's whether you think that's real or not all right they mean well I'll take that on board I really don't know if it's right don't know if it's true I know I will take it Well, it's helpful anyway.

I may as well just start, you know, go with that route. You know. Okay. Well, I hope everyone enjoyed that. I hope everyone's enjoying the new, admiring our new look. Look forward to the rest of the week. I'll put it that way. Oh, God.

Something big. Something big. You won't believe your eyes. It's so big. You won't believe your eyes. You'll be blown away. You actually will. By how big it is.

Yeah. And also keep checking up on our Instagram and the Cucks Club. Yeah. Because maybe there could be a Podmother's meeting happening. Yeah, that would be amazing. That would be nice. All right. Thanks. If you don't hear from us.

If you don't hear from us, assume the West.