Goes Without Saying - Advice Dating In Your 20s The Manchild Keeps The Score

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on bad decisions and bad advice, choosing chaos, life lessons, & navigating dating in your 20s. ✷see more ✷ youtube @sephyandwing ✷ instagram @sephyandwing ✷ tiktok @sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk

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See Golden Nugget Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. Often you're performing fun, formed empowerment. Yeah, it's performative. You're performing what it is to be like a young woman dating and just like getting with random guys. And it's like, they don't care about me. But it's like, I don't care about them.

But it's like, you do though, because you spent a lot of the last two weeks feeling really shit. And if you just actually just want to vent, I think that is a job for your journal. Or I can't be giving to you the job I would also give to a blank piece of paper. Right. You're giving me the job of your journal. You know, like, when it's really fucking pissing you,

off that your friend or whatever is acting and they're not seeing something right or they're getting walked all over by somebody and they're just letting it happen whatever and coming to for advice for six months and not listening to you. No, I actually think that is disrespectful. Goes Without Saying, you're listening to Goes Without

Saying with Seffy and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Seffy. This is kind of a fun episode. We are talking a lot about how to know whether you're getting involved in something that's maybe a little bit chaotic and fun for all the wrong reasons.

Knowing when to push, knowing when to get yourself in a little mess and enjoy it and then pull back, holding onto the power in certain dynamics, not like losing yourself at the mercy of getting a text from somebody. I think this is a good one if you are looking forward to having a bit of crazy summer

and if you're finding yourself in a pickle of just kind of, you know when you're in deep and you kind of can't think straight and you need your friend's advice, I think this is a fun episode, so enjoy. What a bloody town of events. Jesus Christ. Okay, let me turn you down.

Yeah, I'm going to turn you down. No offense. Yeah, it's much. Fucking hell. So a sad thing happened, guys. Oh, God, commiserations. We recorded such a good episode. So this is late now because we recorded a few days ago.

A really good episode. And it went straight in the bloody bin. Just got deleted somehow. Half of it got deleted. But like, as in not, it didn't get deleted. It just never saved. So it was just me being like, mm-hmm. Yeah.

So do you remember when I was saying to you, mine's at 0%, what's yours at? And you were like, mine's at like 90? Yeah. I was like, so it's definitely saving. That was because my... I know. That's my fault. Yeah.

I realized it after. It's devastating. Anyway, so we're not going to recreate that. We'll look back around on that in like a couple of weeks. Because we've got a lot to say on this topic. So it doesn't feel right now just to do like a fake version of a good episode. So we're just going to do something completely different now. Yeah.

There's a choice. change of pace, change of tone. Yeah. We did have a few good jokes in the episode that were lost. There was a really good bit. All my makeup came off because I was crying so much. It was good. It was good. We'll bring it back.

We'll redo it. Word for word. We will get those jokes to you, Harry. Those jokes will find you. Don't worry. I do. Those jokes are coming to you. We'll get you what you deserve.

Oh my God. You can imagine the day that we had after. It was just, it was pretty sad. Well then, yeah, you were running around to the farm. Yeah. Well, I don't want to go into all that shit. No, no, you don't have to. I went to three different pharmacies, guys. I had a great Chinese last night. You did? You did. You did. That was amazing. What did you order? Pretty much. I mean, what didn't we order? It was really, really good. We tried a new, we tried honey something something chicken. That was really good. That went down well. It was just all really good. And I'm really excited to eat more prawn crackers today. Oh, wait. Have you got leftover? Leftover. Lefto. Lefto. Darling, have you got leftovers?

You've got leftovers, nice. We've got leftovers, yeah. How are you anyway? Good, I don't even know what's going on. Nice. Good. I'm really tired. I'm really tired of.

I've started a job, got a new job at a... This is in the last one. I don't know if you know... Yeah, I forgot that, sorry. Yeah, no, you haven't heard. I've started working at this little, like, cafe slash kind of restaurant, slash bar. Slash venue.

Don't really know how to describe it. We just repeat all the same jokes, but you'll never know. And, yeah, it's really nice and there's a very cool place, but I'm very tired, like, just getting back in the habit of, like, working again. That's why, yeah, I keep feeling bad because I'm very aware of, like, you're waking out. Like, I know that then you go to bed and then you wake up and I'm like, microphone, anything to say? So I'm sorry about that. But it's good.

Like, it's been, my whole thing was like, I just need some structure over summer. Yeah. So it's been quite nice to, like, be doing that. But at the same time, Jesus Christ, I forgot how hard it is to, like, be on. on your feet for sort of like eight hours. Yeah. And it's lots of stairs in this building. It's up and downstairs all day.

It's like four stories. Wow. I was picturing. The kitchen's right at the top and I'm like bringing plates down like to the bottom. It's like a lot of stairs. Wow. Yeah.

God, well done. Well done. It's fun. It's really fun. And I do like working it like I do. I enjoy it. There is something really fun about it. It's kind of playing cafe, you know, like it's fun.

That's fun. But at the same time I just, I'm extremely tired. You would like, I have said this to you before, good coffee, great coffee. Yeah, I would like that. Good pizza, great pizza. They are really good.

There was a phase. It was actually a couple months ago. I did it maybe on the way back from the billboard. I was sat on the train with my iPad doing good pizza great pizza. I remember you saying this. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, I'm glad we got that off our chairs.

Yeah, that's the updates. Yeah. This episode will be framed around a message that we got a while ago. Basically, we've just had like a whole kind of couple of hours. long conversation. Of all good things, all good things. Great things. But then we were kind of thrown because we were like, oh, we've just recorded that. We didn't want

to just redo the episode that we did the other day and what are we doing. Yes. Okay, so, do you want to hear this message? Yes, I do. Basically, I was thinking we could frame it through the thing of like, it's kind of, I think, a common thing with, well, we'll just, let's see where we go. Okay, okay. This person said how to convince

a friend who really needs it to get mental health help when they know they need it. And I was kind of of thinking about the concepts of like not being in control of other people and how frustrating that is sometimes yeah and like knowing when to push with other people and not even specifically I'm sure we'll get to your question young Harry not even specifically about like a friend with mental health but also just like not having you know when you just like want to shake somebody I have been in many dynamics throughout my life with like friends

like it could be romantic it could be like parent where they're doing something that for you feels extremely frustrating. Yeah. And knowing how to draw that line and what that looks like. I just think it's an interesting one. And it does kind of skirt into what we were talking about the other day in the episode. But I kind of think it's a different vibe. We'll leave that for now.

Yeah, we'll leave that in the dust. But yeah, I know it's the most frustrating thing in the world. Also, I feel like, I don't know if you do want to speak about this, but you had a dream, a nightmare, like a horrific nightmare. which I feel like this just fits into, because it had that feeling of like shaking people and like being so frustrated with people, which I feel like, it would be interesting to go into

a bit of it, but you really don't have to. We can go into it. So, it was quite bad. Like, I've gone cold. First of all. I literally like, all of the blood has drained out of my body. Yeah. Like, I literally, I actually physically,

like, I've lost feeling in my hands. I genuinely, I genuinely feel like, you know, like when you've been laughing a lot and then you can't hold on to things. Like, you're kind of weak at the knee. I've gone weak. But first of all, we have to set the scene of where this happened. Right. So we were at Oxford University.

Yeah, you've heard of this. Woo! Yeah. Wow. Old place. Old timey. Yes. Old timey.

It's an old timey spot. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely haunted. We were in like kind of, oh, what was it called? Like the fellow's lodge. Yeah, the fellows lodge. Of one of the colleges or whatever.

because so kindly they got us this room to stay in because we were doing the talk there, famously. Had a great time. We were in this beautiful room, very hoggaw, it was very, just like the most beautiful, old kind of castle you've ever seen. It's a best time and had the best time. It's just gorgeous, it's gorgeous.

We left, we went to do the talk, had the best time, went for a wag. One was, came back, it was dark. And all of a sudden, we were like, is this a little bit scary all of a sudden? It's definitely wanted. Definitely scary. In the dark of the night,

This is looking, it kind of wasn't what I remember. Let me show you, if you guys are on the video now, I'll show you like a photo. Maybe I'll put it on the thing. Just almost, I've got it right here. Like, it's almost like, that's it in the day. Oh, it looks beautiful. It looks beautiful. Salt burn.

Lights go down, all those beautiful sunlight gone. Suddenly. Suddenly. It ain't looking so nice. It was ghostly. It really was a very spooky little room, wasn't it? And also, we. need to say that I didn't stay there.

Right. So I was staying on my own. Yeah. Zephy was like, I'll wait for my bus. And I was like, I'll wait with you. Yeah, yeah. I'll walk with you. Which, by the way, my bus, I had to wait an hour for my bus.

Like, we did our talk and everything and I was just going home. And I was like, fucking how. I wanted to get back because they had said to me that the gate closes at 11pm. So you'll have to make your way through the fellow's garden, go through the gate. And I was like, I won't be able to do that. No. I can barely navigate this place. Truly.

Yeah, I can't do that. I'm not trusting myself to get locked out and find my way back in. I'll be here at 11. I'll be here at 5'2. You'll see me then. Yeah. So, yeah, I didn't wait with Sophie. But made it back into the room and I was like, God, it looks a little bit spooky.

Whatever. Anyway, I didn't tell you, but I had some chocolate covered pretzels from MS. Oh, amazing. I kept that quite. I kept that to myself. They weren't vegan. Yeah. And I didn't really think about them until I was back in the spooky.

room and I like put my laptop on I had like YouTube blaring and I got the chocolate cover pretzels out and I was like right let's make this will be really nice and whatever my heart is being so fast I had I had a really I had like a 10 minute long voice note worth of a dream that night that I had to feel seven which I was pretty much sobbing throughout the voice thing you get pausing it being like because you'd be like you'd just go a bit of quiet and then you'd hear it and then it would pause and then you'd come back really sorry about that it's really horrible guys guys I was like gutterily sobbing. Yeah. Sobbing.

Yeah. God. I, you actually said, and I didn't realize that you had said this and I said it and then I was like, and you were like, oh yeah, I said that to you in the voice note that you were like, it was like an I-USCA sort of trip that you've been on where like, so basically I was kind of tossing and turning and then I went into this sleep where I've never ever, in my life ever experienced a dream so real. I must have been like really teetering on the edge of consciousness because.

All of that emotion was still in my body. And normally, like, if I wake up from, even a really crazy dream, I'll wake up and be like, oh, crazy dream, whatever. It's like my boy... You might have a minute of adjusting. I'm a little bit anger with you. Or me and seven had an argument in my dream. I'm a little bit angry with it. You know, I'm a little bit upset, whatever.

Yeah. Wasn't like that. It was fucked up. I don't want this whole thing to be my dream because I know that is really boring. But it's actually not, like, because also this, it's all coming from very real world. It's not... And then I went on a spaceship. and it's like, no, this is like real world trauma.

You don't need to go into detail, maybe. Yeah, no. But maybe you should, you can do what you want. I don't know. Yeah. I want to get anything that you think will be interesting out. Like, the first kind of part of the dream was me being like, and this is a common thing in my dreams.

I'm always trying to convince people something. I'm always like, no, please, like you have to believe me. Like, this is a bad person. Like, please, which comes from when I was younger and like, there was an abusive situation with this disgusting psychopath of a, freak person. Yeah. And I felt like at the time no one believed me and no one was like listening to me and

giving that situation, you know, no one was paying attention the way that they should have been. Yeah. So now I still have dreams often where I'm like, please, oh my God, no, like you don't get it. Like please trust me, trust me. Like I swear that it's this way or like this person is doing something or whatever. So that feeling of like not being listened to I find very difficult. Anyway, that was the first kind of bit.

Then it went really south and I kind of like there wasn't interesting. I was, I kind of want to give like the drama of. like when I was with Laura in my dream. Go on. You know the bit where I was like, oh, God, this bit's so horrible. Do I or no? Yeah, go on, but it's really horrid.

Also, evil eye, like... Yeah, evil eye. What do you mean? Oh, right, like, you don't want me to bring this into the world. Well, you can do whatever you want. It's your shit and your dream, but just almost like, is it going to be one of those things where it's like, I don't want people thinking that.

No, you can think it's fine. Like, it's horrible, but it's fine. I just need to set it up right. and not spend the whole, like, I don't want to spend too long. Like, there's something like, it's almost a meme of how boring it is to listen to people's dreams. But. Yeah, but this isn't that. You're not, again, it's not.

And then I flew off on a spaceship and then they were saying they were serving tea and cake. Right. Cool. Okay. So something had happened where extra context, I'm not currently in like a speaking dynamic with my mom for a few reasons. And it's been extremely tumultuous and difficult for the past, like, 10 years. And so before I've known you. Yeah, like ages.

And it's kind of got to a particularly bad place over the past couple of years where kind of something happened. And then it was like, I think actually some distance here is maybe the only way that I'm going to survive. So a bit of a tricky situation. And then in my stupid dream in this haunted fucking room that I've never felt anything more real in my life. I got added into a WhatsApp chat. It was like loads of people with my family. And it was my auntie being like, I'm on my way to her house now.

And it was like, oh, okay, and it was something about my mom. And I'm just kind of like, what's gone on here? And I'd been added to the conversation, but there had obviously been a conversation prior that I wasn't involved in. So I was a bit confused. And it was all kind of like, you know, what the hell's going on? Yeah. And then someone sent like a Facebook link into the WhatsApp forwarded.

So real. So real. It's too real. Yeah. It's ridiculous of someone making a post saying, rest in peace, whatever, my mom's name, aged, whatever. like da-da-da-da after and this specific bit I thought was horrible after like oh maybe I shouldn't say that but it was like after like X amount of trips to the hospital and like after this and this has happened it was really real language in this Facebook post and I saw it and I was like she's not and I commented

on the Facebook post being like take this down she's not dead like no you've got that wrong and then I was with my friend Laura hey Laura yeah hey Laura and I actually haven't even filled her in on this. She's quite a crazy one. She's going to be like, it's hard to fill it in. It's mental. Yeah. commented on this thing saying,

take this down. She's not dead and people are messaging and I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And I was like, let me call her and I rang my mum. And I could hear it. And I actually voiced, I, like, videoed myself singing this melody to see if I could find it. I could hear it like,

it was almost like a song that would be playing in like a school. disco in 2004 or something it was like a like a it was something like a kind of classic like a melody that felt so familiar yeah wearing through the other end of the phone kind of crazy frog blaring through the phone i was like jesus she's got me right by the why is she playing music so loud and i was like mom and she was like what sort of thing like hey like why you call it like wow you haven't we're not speak like hello sort of thing And I was like, I thought you was dead, kind of Mr. Pickman, whatever, his name is Ian Wright.

I thought you, they said you was dead. That football thing. I was like, I thought you were dead. Like, they said you were dead. And she was like, what? No, don't say that. Why would you say that I'm dead? And I was like, but they said that you had died, but you're not dead.

And then it was kind of like silent. And I could just hear like this music playing. And I was like, mom, like, are you there? Like, hello? And there was nothing. And I was like, what the fuck? And I passed the phone to my friend Laura. And I was like, Laura.

is my mum there? No. And she was looking on the phone and she was looking at me and she had the phone to her ear and she was like, yeah, yeah, hi, like whatever. And then I could hear her, I could see her face kind of shift from like, oh wait, that's music and there's no one to speak. And I was like, Laura, is my mum there? Is my mum on the phone? Like, is my mum on the other side of this call? I don't like this.

And then I woke up, like, shouting at Laura and I was sobbing, crying and I was like, drenched in sweat. Oh my God, it was insane. it was really like... It's kind of like... It's a real nightmare. It's a proper nightmare. But also there were so many bits to it that were like... It was almost like you were going through sort of like a carousel of like your...

All my worst thing. Yeah, it was horrible. It's just really, really horrible. Which is why I was like, this gives an ayahuasca vibe that's like... Yeah. Almost to me I was like, was this some sort of like healing experience but you were like, no, it was evil. It really wasn't healing. It was absolutely horrible.

And it was, I was going to say if anyone's seen Thunderbolts, the Marvel. The like new thing. which she got invited to the screening, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. The whole thing is them, like, going through these horrible scenarios. It was like, oh, it was just, it was really grim and it felt really, really real. And then I literally was like, is my mum dead? And it was kind of this horrible thing of like, we haven't spoken.

But you need to text her now and just be like. It just felt really final of like she's going to be thinking a certain thing. And I'm thinking, I don't know, it was just horrible. Yeah. Anyway, and then I did message, but I shouldn't have. But anyway. Should you not have? I think it's good that you did.

Really? It's good to know like she's alive, but... No, I think it's about you in that moment and you needed to text, and I think that's the right move. Yeah, but then it just caused more horrible things. So... Anyway, it's a good reminder of why things are the way they are, I think. Yeah, actually, which was absolutely horrible.

But anyway... Yeah. So that was my thing of running around, shaking people being like, what is going on? Commenting on someone's face-up post. Take this down. She's not dead. No, no, no, no, it's too real.

That is actually like, oh no, I don't like it at all. Like I was annoyed. I was like, why are you fucking posting that? She's not fucking dead. And like calling her up. But like, it's just so like, yeah, horrible. It's not really about, um, helping your friend with their mental health. Whoa.

As a friend now, I'm going to help you with your mental health. But that was that. How do we tell her? No, I think it's like, look, that is, it is exactly that. And that's sort of why I brought it up. It's that feeling of being like the frustration. It was extremely frustrating. Yeah.

it obviously descends into something. Yeah. But it's still because of that feeling. I think it's that thing as well. We've had this conversation recently where you were in a situation where someone was making you feel really shit and like, I think small was the word that you used

and like powerless. Oh my God. Do you know the one I'm speaking about? Yeah. There's been one and one only. Right. That has made me feel that way. Yeah.

And it's a weird feeling because I think we definitely have a type of thing where we almost like expect we get disappointed in ourselves. I think when we haven't like stood up for ourselves enough or like I find it frustrating when I feel like I haven't spoken up in a situation enough. I think that situation, the one that made me feel very small as I've said as, it's kind of someone in a position of power like treating you a bit shit. Barely, like literally

barely and I'm not even really sure if they do. And I think that's kind of one of the things that like basically I'm in a bit of a situation where I'm going to need to like have a word with someone which I don't. I'm going to have to pull someone for chat. I'm going to have to pull someone for chat. and I really don't like things like that. Like I will be crying. I will be shaking. You'll be all right. But I do think like actually this person was speaking to me in a way that I really, really.

They're asking for it. I'm not happy with it at all. And I think it's just one of those moments where I just need to be like, hi, I'm really sorry, but you can't speak to me like that. To also thinks a lot of people push to what they think they can get away with. And they actually, they need to be shown that you cannot get away with that. And also they can. Like it was one of the things where it was just, I completely just let it happen and completely just like shrunk.

It's shocking in the moment. Yeah, no, it is. And also like, I'm not used to that. Like, that doesn't feel. Well, like, there have been so many times when my life where that has happened, but it just really shocked me this one of just like, excuse me. Yeah. So I'm actually really scared about it. It's something that is really like, I'm playing it over of like how I'm going to do this.

Because it's not, that is not a natural situation to me. And I hope it kind of just resolves naturally. Yeah. And because it doesn't feel good to me to have to, like, have a thing. But I also really was like, I can't have that again. That that can't happen again. I think you can acknowledge it in a way that keeps things like nicely, but lets them know, like, hey, I'm on to you and you need to watch your back.

Hey, I picked up on all of that passive aggression that you were giving me. No. I think we shouldn't do that anymore. Yeah. Because also it's, I'm not trying to be like, um. No, King of a Castle. It's just like, can we just be nice? is my point. Can we be nice people?

It's not necessary, is it? You're not necessary, is it? You want to have a horrible time. I'm saying let's have a nice time. Not with me. Not with me, you don't. Or like, I'll just cry. I'll just cry. No, I'm not punching bag. No. Ay, aye, aye. Yeah. What about when it's like you're trying to get through to somebody that you care about who's viewing something a certain way,

that is maybe harming them or like, you know, they need, they've got. Christ. Yeah, it's difficult. I've been in the position before where I've asked, I've said to someone. and I wouldn't recommend this, but I said to someone once, like, I really think you need therapy, and they were so angry.

It really made them, like, fuming, actually. Like, they were screaming and crying at me. So I wouldn't, like, I think it's like, know your audience. Tough one. Yeah, it's a tough place to be. I don't really know where we go from here. But, like, they, I've never really met anyone that needed therapy more,

but they were not happy with the suggestion. But then I've also been in situations where, like, I've said to someone, like, wait, I think you need therapy. Or, like, I'm not going around. saying I think you need therapy to people but like you know it's like maybe that would be beneficial like maybe I'm talking about this blah blah blah and then they have got therapy and it's been great so I don't know I really don't know but I think there's some of the most tough situation I think

especially with like family those things are just so dreadful or anything with family is you things normally and they just can't I think as well like for example with this person saying like a friend who's going through a certain thing and it's like how do I help them kind of see like help them see what they need. I think if someone isn't receptive to the help that you're giving, it doesn't necessarily mean like that you can't still be there for them in a different way. And I think it's figuring out how you can best like kind of relieve yourself. I think a lot of it basically, we are very selfish beings. Even when we're helping people, it's fueling something. It's fulfilling us in a certain way that makes us feel like, you know, like maybe you feel like you can fix somebody or like you're

important to them in that way or whatever it is. Yeah. And I think part of, you know, like when it's really fucking pissing you off that your friend or whatever is acting and they're not seeing something right, or they're getting walked all over by somebody and they're just letting it happen, whatever, and coming to for advice for six months and not listening to you. No, I actually think that is disrespectful. Go on then.

Because I agree with you, actually. I think that's disrespectful. But like this kind of, this sort of encroaches, encroaches. Yeah, it does. On the topic of last, of not even last week, of the episode that was amazing. The ghost episode. The ghost of a great episode was all about this. Yeah.

But like, I think when, when you're going to someone for advice over and over and over again, I think you can't just endlessly mind someone for their time and insights and not act on. If you know your full well, I'm not going to act on it. And if you just actually just want to vent, I think that is a job for your journal or, a therapist or that's not a position that I necessarily want to put my friends in. Like I think that's stuff that I need to say I want advice on something that's then going on for six months. I think there comes a point where it's like, look, you're just kind of, it's not respectful

to my friend's time and it's not respectful to their wisdom, actually. Like, I think there's some bits that you need to, or like a while ago, I was going through a thing that I couldn't really get over and there were new things happening. You were going through. Things were changing every day and I just really couldn't like keep. up with it and I remember being like I'm not being I'm not really like valuing my friends time I don't think and we spoke about it in an episode ages ago the one where we're in the artist residence we're in the artist residence is there's a video of it it's like the most beautiful like

like literally beautiful video you've ever seen like insane insane lighting and it was and there were bits that you agreed with and bits you didn't agree with but I think that like for me it was like I need to like before I was phoning my friend with the issue I was journaling it all out getting all of the gunk out. Instead of just like phoning them being like and using them as that like fucking venting like void, which I think is like anti-frenship

and that is not what my friendships. And that's not the functions they play. They're like supportive partnerships rather than like one way fucking like sounding boards. Getting it all out and actually then thinking what I'm having an actual like conversation with you about this that I value your time, your energy and your wisdom.

Yeah. Without sounding like a. but I genuinely think that. No. No, I don't think that makes... In what way does that... Just I value your wisdom. You do value your wisdom.

You do though. Yeah, you do. Like, you're not a fucking... Like, I can't be giving to you the job I would also give to a blank piece of paper. Right. Yeah, that's a nice way of putting it. It's just what are we doing. So I think that's often when people come to you.

I want advice on this thing. No, you don't. No, you don't. You want to splurge... You want to come all over me. Yeah. You want to splurge all your shit. That was a joke we made in the last one.

they've totally been used and abused. Yeah. Yeah. I think it is also the responsibility of the, like, as the person giving the advicee or the advisor, I don't know which way it would be the advisor. Yeah. I think it's about thinking about how much of this responsibility you taking on to, like, feed your own sort of ego in that way.

And like, how frustrating is it that your friend is going on and on about this guy or whatever it may be? And is it just like, you know, your, you know, your, you know, feeling a little bit frustrated that you feel like you're not able to give what you want yourself to be able to give you know what I mean like you're setting yourself up to be able to you because I have this thing where I'm like I want to fix and I want to I want to trust me with my I want you to hear my wisdom I want you to respect my heed my words yeah and so when I feel like that isn't if I were to give somebody advice and they didn't take it I would find that personally

insulting mostly because my ego they don't they don't take it right but my ego depends on like feeling like I've given something valuable that you would trust that then you can action. I think most of my friends do really take my advice, but there is sometimes you end up shooting yourself in the foot where you give your opinion on something and then they just knuckle down on their opinion and then you just got to live with that. Also, I don't think I necessarily even need people to take my advice because I think it's like, but I want to be like involved in a solution with people that I like care about. And that literally I'm talking about like, there's a few people.

There's less than five people that I really would feel. feel like that with most people that sort of tell me their things or whatever i sort of feel like like you're on your own just passed as bye you're on your own with that one like i'll give a quick whatever and that is it but like there are like genuinely probably less than three people that i really like feel like it's a small like it's kind of you yeah i mean like it's sort of like yeah yeah yeah name's a cart well maybe i can leave me you cut and cut and all of them all of the beautiful friend's car. Yeah.

Did you make the cart? Nobody knows. I don't know. Just imagine your name in that spot. If you're one of my friends. Yeah. But like, yeah, I don't know if I like need them to take my advice. But I think it's like, there are certain things that I want to be on the same like page about.

Yeah. In terms of like, especially, especially I would have this awareness. Like, for example, when I was going through this thing and I wanted like loads of advice from you. If I was asking you for loads of advice and then just acting in the. complete opposite way. That would be very, I find that I would find that disrespectful to you. I do also think it's very, I don't know if I've ever necessarily told. Giving advice for me is often like me just kind of encouraging them to do what they're going

to do anyway. So like with you, for example, my advice was, I have nothing to say. Yeah, you don't know. Throughout that thing, I was like, there's nothing I can tell you because you I think the one thing I was saying was like, I know even when this, for example, isn't a good idea, I know you're going to do it anyway and you'll get through it. Like, I know you're tough enough. I know you'll be able to get through the pain of what you know you're bringing on yourself. So I'll be, I'll engage in the kind of the fun bit. And I think that's it, not approaching it with that naivety as well of like sometimes when you're asking someone for advice with a decision that you know is bad and like you want to do it because you're a fun, a loving gal, whatever the fuck. You want to do. You want to do. You want to do. You. You want to do. You. You want to do. You. You. you want to go somewhere that you want to quit your job and go somewhere you want to get with this guy that isn't good for you whatever the fuck doing that doing that with naivety is really fucking boring and annoying to listen to because then you feel like you're convincing someone

well have you thought of this blah blah blah I think it's about like being quite honest and being like I know this is a fucking disastrous move like I know that this is like yeah this is not um it doesn't lead this is maybe not a productive decision yeah I still want to make that decision with my full awareness, like with full consciousness. It's not an accident. It's not a fuck up. It's like I am actively making the decision in the pursuit of fun, enjoyment, life and love. You know?

Yeah, all good things. All good things. I think that. Even if it doesn't look like that when it plays out. Exactly. And realistically, that also brings with it a lot of insecurity and all this, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think it's like making the decision with awareness is a really different conversation to being like, I just, but I really like him.

I, um, there's an analogy here that I originally, I'm going to make the analogy, but the original piece came from, um, Miley Cyrus speaking on a podcast. Queen. Um, yeah, I didn't love everything that she, I don't know, there were certain things in it. I was like, oh, okay. Which podcast? Is this the New York Times one? No, it was the one with, um, her sister and her mom. They've got a podcast.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she went on it. And their podcast is called Sori. I'm Cyrus or something like that. Like something like that. Anyway, you know, we love. Miley, you're always welcome on the pot. Miley, we love you.

As you know. Miley, we love it. Tours always open. God. She was talking about like yoga and Pilates and food and stuff. I believe. Oh yeah. And she was talking about like frequency.

And she was like, I don't want to eat something that someone's made when they're in a bad mood in like a chop or whatever. And then I put it in my mouth and I get their bad mood. Oh my God. Miley. Yeah. Um, but she said, and I felt like this put, probably hundreds of people have said this, but if I feel like it put into words something that I think all the time that I've definitely

tried to say on the podcast many, many times specifically about food. And she says, I think a meal made, any meal, any food, whatever, any meal made with love is more nutritious than a meal made without love, right? So just like it could be the most quote unquote nutritious salad from wherever and it's it's got all of these nutrients that are going to, you know, be really good for your body. But it still wouldn't be more nutritious than like your grandma's cherry pie. Yeah, exactly. No, that's actually so true.

And that is like that just, Hermione, you've said exactly what I've been trying to say for like five years. Fuck's sake. It's so true. This is kind of, my sister always does this where she'll be like, um, there's certain things where she's like, that's for the soul. Like that food is for the soul. Yeah. That will always be more fulfilling and more. nutritious than anything else.

And I was going to draw the analogy to doing things that are like quote unquote bad decisions. Exactly. Yeah. Maybe are good for the soul. Good for the soul. Maybe that is in a way more nutritious than doing whatever you think is quote unquote the right thing to do. If that is truly what you really, really want and it's connecting to a certain part of something within you. And you think you're tough enough to explore it for the next life.

four months or whatever, you're going to spend the summer, you know, fucking your life up with this random person call. But I don't, I'm not necessarily in favour of that for, okay, I'm not in favour of fucking your life at whatever. I think these things must always be in a pursuit of, like, enhancing. All those things, love and whatever. All of this stuff. It's like if you are, if you are, this is your one precious life. Like this is your one shot at this. I think, yes, these things should be fulfilling for the soul. They should be fun. Like I don't think, and they should make. And they should make you feel good. I think that is the key.

I don't think that's, oh, I'll go back to my ex because it's actually just out of insecurity and you just want to like... You guys... That's not what this is. Or like, I'm going to go and have sexist. This guy that is not interested in me in any way. I'm talking about conscious decisions

towards fun and towards like feeling confident and good. Which is not for the faint of heart. And I don't think it's for the masses either. Think there's a small... I think often you're... performing fun or we were speaking like for example back in the early days of the pod performed empowerment yeah it's performative you're performing what it is to be like a young woman dating and just like getting with random guys and it's like but you hate it but it's like I don't care about me but it's like I don't care about them but it's like you do though

because you spent a lot of the last two weeks feeling really shit and mining all your friends for their time and energy what do you think I should do oh my god you just take me this blah blah blah blah all of that shit is that's not a certain amount of that is kind of the spice of life Like that is kind of so much of that is important. But also so much of that time, so much of that is just eating your life and eating your time and energy. There's just a very fine balance isn't there. You have to tow that line very carefully. And I also think be prepared to go up and down throughout that process. Like just because something is overall maybe fun or you think the idea of it or the narrative fits your life so that this is what I should be.

This is fun. This is like this works for me right now. There's going to be a lot of times within that where you're going to be a lot of times within that where you're you're going to feel like maybe extremely shit. Like it's going to push you. And you're going to be tested. The crucial bit is knowing when to cut it. I also think like, don't follow my lead in this because I think I can detach very

brutally sometimes and reframe things. Because almost I was speaking to my mum about it and she was like, but she was like, that's not what everyone does though. Like you need to know that that isn't how that ended was not. And it was quite, it took you to an extreme place to get there. I essentially went to a spiritual plan. You did a little ayahuasca trip. You had a crazy dream.

To end this thing, I did a cord cutting meditation on the full moon. And I'm not fucking joking the chords were caught. Like, I felt repulsed. Not only that, but she placed a curse. I placed a physical curse. Like, to a crazy level. Like, that was accidental. I didn't mean to place the curse.

I think it's important. That sounds insane. No, no, the curse was just a happy accident. Yeah. That was just honestly, it just backfired. My spell just eight slugs, you know, whatever. Yeah. But I think it is also important to see that you did a cord cutting ceremony based on going through a really shit situation that you were then essentially forced to be like, I have to cut this now.

Do you know what I mean? And basically it was like, this is no longer. Until that day, it was still fun. It was, it got to the point very quickly where I was like, this is no longer fun, this needs to end. And actually like, I'm not doing this. This is no longer in the pursuit of fun and happiness. And like, this is no longer in my best interest, basically. Well, it's kind of when you're at their mercy.

Basically, there was, there was just a switch, a dynamic flip. Yeah. That I was like, this is no longer fun for me. This is like now leading into a bad direction. And I pretty much, like, I don't know how I did it. And this is why I think like, that advice is maybe redundant in terms of like pursue fun and blow a blood because I don't know how I did it and I don't know if I'll ever be able to do it again but this was like an all consuming

situation. Extremely. I genuinely turned off like a fucking tap overnight. Like and genuinely I really recommend if you're trying to like get over someone or like and with like in a proper way like actually wish them well on their life and like which is a hard place to get to and just like really really be like in your own shit like I am now like that is not part of my life. This is irrelevant now, yeah.

Doing like a cord cutting meditation, which is just basically, it's got like a very fucking woohoo name, but it's basically just like, um, feet like sort of visualising them like leaving and then like cutting the cord, like the energy cord, whatever the fuck between you.

I don't know what the fuck happened, but I genuinely like cut my, I like drew my energy back from them, like withdrew it. And like, this person is like still in my life and stuff. But I genuinely reframed the relationship to like such a crazy. And I have no explanation for it. And everyone was like, we don't believe you.

We don't believe you. Like when I was like, I don't feel it anymore. Like it's done. And I genuinely, genuinely don't. Well, I think as well, it's kind of, do you remember me saying like sometimes anxiety around something is so you never take it past its climax? Like it's like, what if I fall when I do my presentation at uni? What if I fall in front of everyone?

That would be so bad. But it's like, but what if you feel? Let's take it through it. You turn up. you stand up, you go and do the thing, you fall. Then what? Don't stop there. Then what? Tell me what happens? You get up. Maybe it's a little bit awkward.

And then what happens? You go about, you have like an awkward half an hour. You feel like a bit silly. You go and tell your friends. You laugh about it. You call your mom, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then you forget about it until someone mentions it on a podcast. You're like, oh my God, that happened to me. And you feel maybe like a sting for half a second. And I think going through, like, for example, a cord cutting thing of being like, I'm going to watch you.

Going through the motions of like, oh, this is what, it feels like when you really, really hurt me. Okay. And now, visualize, this is what it looks like when I put you out of my life and going through, I feel like you just need to get it out of your system sometimes. Genuinely, and that's what, like, journaling, genuinely, like, I think so many of these things, if you're having that moment, you're like trying to text your friends all the time and like, you can feel yourself maybe starting to, like, annoy them or like, sorry, I'm just going over the same point over and over again, which is literally, I think when people have a crash,

that is like, one of the main things they say to their friends, like, sorry, I'm repeating myself, like sorry blah blah blah and i think it's like yeah this is because what you're giving me you're giving me the job of your journal like you're really are or like you or the job of listening to music and crying it out or like going for a walk and thinking about this like all of these things watching a romantic comedy that like deals with the same themes all of this stuff doesn't have to just be dealt with in conversation like even listening to a podcast god i listen to so many fucking podcasts like go for a run all of these things yeah they're not necessarily the job of your friends No, well, they are helpful things to include in your life.

Like, they make a big difference. And it is, I keep saying this, but the toddlers having a tantrum and screaming it out and then two seconds later, they're over it and they're fine. There's something about a physical release of like, oh, I just got that out of my system. Yeah. And now I do feel differently. Like, there is sometimes, like, if you hold something up until a certain point and don't let it reach its climax, you're never going to feel over it.

Definitely. And like, acknowledging what it is. Yeah. And I think that's the thing of like the performative empowerment of being like, I'm having a hot girl summer. I'm in my 20s and I'm going to fuck this guy that is bad for me, whatever. It's like, call it what it is. Let's actually be honest with yourself.

Like, are you doing that? Do you like this person? Is this coming from fun? Somewhere in there, you've got a crush on this person. You fancy this person. Do you want them to text you? You want them to want you. It's like coming from an insecurity, all of the stuff.

And not always, not always. But like, more often than not when you're like trying to pursue something. that you know is not in your best interest, it will be coming from a bad place. In fact, maybe always. Because I think it's like, if it's in the pursuit of fun, then that might be for your best interest, but is it in pursuit of fun? That's the question. It's tricky to know as well, like, also these things are not clean cut.

No, they never are. And that was my advice to you as well for this period. I was like, stop trying to figure it out, I think. Yeah. Or like, there's only so many conclusions to be drawn. How can you see clearly when you're blinded by the sun? By the sun. When you're in so deep in something, you can't.

see like fucking six feet ahead of you yeah and also that stuff is fun and I think these are like huge experiences that are so important but at the same time know when to cut it know when to prioritize yourself like I don't know that there are some moments where it's just like it becomes undeniable trust in yourself that you I think having the trust that you can get through it then informs whether or not you actually want to do it because knowing that you will be fine either way and it's like, look, if you really, really fuck me over, I know I'll survive it. Then makes you feel a little bit more confident to be like, and do I even want that? Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? Totally. I'm sorry to this person's friend who's really mentally unwell. Because we've offered nothing. Jesus Christ. I think you're okay. We've just talked about a dream and a cord cutting meditation. I think there was something in there.

Yesterday's episode, like, or whatever, the episode that it was supposed to be, like the other day. You know, this is what happens when the other. episode gets lost and you have to think on your feet. Honestly, we just end up saying a load of other weird shit that you maybe didn't need to know about us. No, no. But good to have you in. Always good, yeah.

We're going to be on good form soon, I think. We are not always, can we talk about that a little bit? Like, we're meeting up, not tomorrow, but the next day. Because I think we've just identified that we really need to like. There's a certain block that we need to ditch. There's a block. Like, I think this is a word that wing brought to the table earlier in the, in the day three hours ago at 10 in the morning she brought this up she said we are self-sabotaging yeah

i also said shriveling we are shriveling like almost having a good thing in shriveling or feeling just generally undeserved or like people hey how are you and you shrivel that's the kind of the energy that we're coming with at the moment and i think there there's just some juzing that we need to do i think i think our content like the podcast is is great the podcast is great at the moment it's never been better in terms of the actual content i think i feel like we feel really good in it and there's like a real honesty and all of the stuff right now. Yeah. And all of the episodes recently have been absolutely bangers.

They have been good. They've been good. And also we're getting great feedback from the like actual audience. I don't know why we're like blocking ourselves from like good things. Like good things happen. We know why. We basically like won't. Yeah.

It's really weird. We've identified the root. We have. If you will. So we need to basically eradicate the root. We're meeting up in a few days to like vision board. Get everything sort of like. We really need to like get back in touch with like.

Our confidence, basically. We're so, like, both painfully fucking insecure. It's really terrible. That's it. It's really embarrassing, actually. It was so bad. All right. That was a good episode, I think.

I think it was a good episode. Yeah. It's kind of a weird one. I think it works. I think it can be framed in a certain way. And sorry to the mentally ill friend. Yeah, I'm sorry. I hope you're okay.

We've got other episodes that could help with that. Loads of episodes. So many. Like, so many. So many. Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, if you don't hear from us, assume the worst.