Goes Without Saying - alone & misunderstood: to be a Woman is to Be Lonely

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on being single and "finding your people", loneliness and isolation, friendship and dating, being alone and feeling misunderstood. ✷shop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.ukhear more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwingwatch more ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Okay, it goes without saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is an episode all about feeling a little bit lost and lonely and confused. You're dazed and confused. You don't know what's going on. You're a human in this world and fuck knows what this place is.

We're talking a little bit about relationships, pressure, friendship, girl squads. Lots of things come up. Yikes. So I hope you enjoy it. Okay. Okay. lots of things come up yikes so i hope you enjoy it okay okay nice to be back to our usual ways i feel like even one time in the studio is enough to make me be like god this feels so um humble it really is humble roots homemade this podcast is back in the studio tomorrow though yeah i can't wait which will be really fun what are we gonna have for lunch that's my main that's my main thing because since we had lunch in the studio that one time we had it changed everything didn't it and i now saw that near the studio they do you know

those pancakes they're called they're called doses like indian food in a pancake you did see them and you stopped i saw them god i had them once at a festival well actually i had a bite of one at a festival because my friend got them and she queued for fucking half an hour to get them i had a bite and i was like i need to get in that queue now got in the queue and they shut down the queue whilst i was in it let's do that then tomorrow tomorrow i know so i've had it in my mind like i really want them but then tomorrow you know we're meeting for lunch no i think just coffee okay so i can get my dose yeah yeah okay because we also are you gonna say where you're going on holiday i'm going to new york guys god i've not told you that in a crazy twist of fate in a series of events and

sephi's really doing me a huge favor by looking after ozzy while we're gone so thank you so much well no problem he doesn't make it easy so i do really appreciate it i know i'm ready for my bites i'm ready for it but he he he actually really really loves you which is really i feel so good about how much he loves me doesn't every time he comes running up to me yeah wing and her boyfriend are always like he doesn't do much he loves me doesn't every time he comes running up to me yeah wing and her boyfriend are always like he doesn't do this to everyone he doesn't he doesn't he really does love me but also we've shared a bed so yeah like he should love me like he's nuzzled into behind my knees behind the knees which is the best yeah he's slept on my the back of my knees

like if he didn't love me i'd be a bit offended that's really fucking cute no he does really love you um yeah thank you so much for doing that and hopefully when you're here we continue the hunt i won't be here but you will be continuing the hunt for your brighton summer i know it's going well i found two places so far that have both fallen through which is gutting but and i've got my hopes up both times i've had my heart broken twice i found one place and i was like this is perfect fell through found another place and it was a cat that lived there and i thought i'm already in love with this cat like fuck fuck fuck fell through so i need to it's just the problem is i am looking for somewhere really nice well that would be nice

yeah it would not even like for example the other one was a single bed what i consider nice is not necessarily luxury it's more the vibe yeah nice vibe i want something that's just like oh like you know when you see it and it's like that yeah i could picture myself living there i think that's the main thing is picturing yourself somewhere it's like when you can see yourself living there and you're watching it all play out in your head oh that's the danger zone that and that's what i've had with both of these ones and they both didn't come to fruition which is gutting so i just need to find i'm thinking third one that third one's what do they say it's a charm how do they say that one third third time's a charm

yeah and that's you know keep my fingers crossed for that yeah please keep me updated actually while i'm away yeah i will keep me updated with new york as well i mean the big apple the big apple she's macaulay culkin i am new york and why i'm gonna be living it up you are you are what are your plans because i heard that drew barrymore is in barrymore is there and her dog i'm really hoping i can meet them i mean that's insane i'm really hoping are you gonna be allowed on yeah i don't know how much i'm allowed to say here because it's supposed to be confidential but just so let's i don't we can't be too specific but hopefully i might have a run-in with drew barrymore in new york you have to yeah because that's the most new york thing or it's the most sort of i don't know if she lives in new york

that's the most sort of kind of take off my shoes and sit on the sofa with her sit on her lap yeah she can like talk about my mom i start crying so god drew yeah drew drew drew she's such good vibes but i'm coming with weird vibes today you can probably feel it i'm just in a bit of a i'm in a bit of a pickle but it's fine but go on well i'm not in a pickle the pickle is i'm a bit tired and i feel bad for telling you guys i'm tired so the pickle is i want to come and like do a good podcast episode because what a luxury and get a grip but i'm just feeling a little bit like oh i'm probably gonna be a bit boring and i've got nothing to say but we're just gonna go through

the motions and have a nice comforting cozy chilled chat yeah this is a thursday episode which means as of like two weeks ago we are having more of a broader conversation with you and your thoughts so we've asked on the instagram for your thoughts off the back of this week's kind of general topic so on monday's episode we were talking about that everything shall for the mind and step two of that was kind of thinking about who you're surrounding yourself with and we were talking about the idea that i feel like a lot of people go through, especially in like their twenties, but it's kind of just lifelong, I think, universal of feeling a little bit

like you're outgrowing your surroundings, feeling a little bit like lost and isolated in your relationships. So if that's hitting with you, I'm sorry to hear that. And stick around for more. That sounded like an intro. Yeah, with you, I'm sorry to hear that. And stick around for more. That sounded like an intro. Yeah, it did.

Oh, thanks. Thank you. I'm sorry, I was trying to really quietly sip my water. No, gulp it down. Thanks, I have been. I know, I've been watching. Do you have any thoughts to lead us in? No, but that's why we've recruited the best brains in the biz

you guys fucking true we asked on instagram i just said that sephi did you yeah literally sorry i was sipping sorry i wasn't listening i could tell i don't know about you right now but i definitely wasn't listening i could tell your eyes were just glazed over i was like she's definitely not listening to me no i wasn't i was trying not to spill my water sorry no no apology accepted so just to reiterate for those like me at the back chatting away listeners at home we've asked on the instagram the teacher just said that we just asked on instagram what's the most lost of lightning you've ever felt and you guys said some things you've come through thick and fast oh i wouldn't mind starting with this go on if you don't mind yeah yeah let's start because this

person has spoken about it in a specific way but i think like as i was just saying don't know if you heard me but i was saying this is like a lifelong thing and it's something that i think happens to everyone at different times and whatever but one of the ways that you really sold it is that you need like almost this narrative and this person said they felt lost and alone when they didn't find quote unquote my people at uni watching everyone else find theirs yeah and i think the idea that like you're going through life looking for your people is really universal i think the idea of like even if you have people in your life or whatever i think really feeling seen and like connecting with people on another level is i

don't know it's it's not like we can't take that for granted it's not simple it doesn't happen like um all the time for everybody it can be rare or it can you can go through a lot of kind of weird clanky clunky disjointed jarring conversations kissing a lot of frogs some may say yeah until you find someone someone that you click with yeah and even then i think just largely it i think sometimes in life i personally and i'm sure lots of people agree you just kind of feel like well no matter what i can't be seen like like can you ever be fully understood like are you ever going to be really seen on this planet like we're all so weird and like um we're all so complex and layered and we don't know who we are half the time that i

think it's just a really common experience to feel a little bit i guess lonely or just really aware of how you are or are not fitting in with who you're surrounding yourself with i just think it's a really really universal experience when we're kind of put on this planet and made to feel like the one thing we really need is connection yeah and I think some friends there are some people you hang out with are going to see different areas of you it's like I don't expect that to meet one person that oh they just see every aspect of me because that is just I mean it's not really a thing i don't think like there'll be so many areas of you that some your closest people just can't understand well like have you

ever been talking to someone that just knows you so fucking well and they say that oh that's just like you and it'll be something that's like not that is not like me like when you said i was gonna live in a house with ellen degeneres yeah exactly exactly like that but it's like god you see me wrong which just to explain again for the listener at home I didn't forgive me I didn't personally connect with that yeah you knew and I don't blame you yeah I don't know what I um saw in that I think you're just trying to put me down what I think I saw I think's not forget that beyonce was also was she probably there's probably other cool people in there but it was rogue from you but anyway she was obviously the weirdest one in that house was she it was like beyonce and i was like yeah you go there elon musk or something

yeah that's not great elon musk and ellen degeneres and me yeah i mean look it's sometimes people say crazy things and if you're friends with crazy people or you have your friends with people that maybe just see see the world a bit different also like you got to expect these things this is something we've spoken about before and i do just find it really interesting the idea that like so much of our identity can be hinged on like a weird thing like it's funny that i still really vividly remember that that was in like covid lockdown that was that first lockdown also i must say when the um general consensus of ellen degeneres was slightly different to it it was it was quite i mean she was still like generous was slightly different to his it was it was quite i mean she was still like dancing i mean it's not a cool person to be put with little tennis shoe girl yeah it's not good but

now it's like um why would you say that to me i i can't remember it's different times yeah um but it's funny how i like you were saying the other day that someone was like i just it's so funny that you've got a podcast i just always thought you'd be a teacher and you were like yeah then you don't know me at all sort of thing you don't get it yeah what the hell what the hell but sometimes the people closest to you just say things that make you think what the hell and that isn't necessarily a reflection of you or them or your relationship or anything more than just people are weird and we're going through an experience on a planet making weird kind of assumptions and projecting our own ideas onto people and

most of it generally doesn't mean much no the last thing we should do is take it personal i just thought of a funny one of those that i got one this morning actually i thought a thing that was like jesus do you even know you you call yourself my mother this is from my mom wow i woke up to an email from my mom considering i live with her she's downstairs quite weird to get an email from her yeah saying i met this woman a few years ago. This was in my junk folder. Why don't you do this? Oh, God.

The subject, she's forwarded me this email. The subject is, sorry, I don't know why she sent this to me. How about a flirtatious Saturday with me? Oh. And it's a picture of this woman. I'm going to show you it. Right. Okay. It it is not adding up exploring the art of flirting um but with everyone so it's about connecting with like everyone it's like a course in brighton

looking for non-verbal cues unspoken language of connection and the simple and profound ways that we can communicate beyond words i love the sound but why the fuck has my mom emailed it to you so formal come and spend a flirtatious saturday with me is she gonna flirt with you i wonder i literally i said i don't want to sit stand in someone's living room in brighton with them flirting with you that is kind of a load of middle aged sort of men learning how to connect oh they're learning how to well it's kind of I think it's just like a

that changes the tone doesn't it it was just one of those things it's like god do you know me at all call yourself our mother do you know what I am interested in flirtatious gal come and spend a flirtatious saturday forwarded from mum i honestly that's an offer i can't refuse all right so an offer i am refusing these are quite sad i'm sorry guys i did ask but i regret i'm sorry to bring it up

can i actually do another one sorry yeah go on okay so again you know the question it was when he when have you felt lost and lonely and this person said now i'm 30 and single my longest relationship was three months and i just almost think that leads us quite nice when we're talking about like the connections that you have with people and almost other people's judgments of you are not necessarily reflective of who you are or what that means for you and your life generally the idea that you're 30 and single and your longest relationship is three months is like right you and whose army like literally and the rest of you like it's so so fine for your life like there is no part of this 100 that is you doing the wrong thing or in some way not being good enough and

yeah acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com go on also i just feel like that i can feel the the pressure person feels that there's like some sort of spectator's eyes and judgment on them like i think so much of the pressure around relationships when i've spoken to people that have a lot of anxiety about being single which is not a shameful thing to have anxiety about because we live in a pressured world but when i've spoken to people that are very very it's a concern like a pressing concern on their lives i feel like the advice i always give is that they are more attached to the narrative that they don't want to be single rather than actually wanting a relationship it's like who are you they'll say things like i want a boyfriend it's like yeah with who

which one who is this literally which one and also i look a boyfriend is not a hard thing to get no it's really not you can go out i promise you you're an absolute stunner you're an absolute catch a boyfriend is the easiest fucking thing you can get in life yeah it is if you want a meaningful sort of um strong caring like actually like um nourishing relationship yeah that's a lot harder to get but if you want the if you want to sort of um appease the eyes so like at a fucking dinner party where your like uncle asks you oh have you got a boyfriend you can say yeah i do if that's what you're looking for i'm sorry it's fucking easy fix then you can just do it it really is if it's that big a concern you can just do it i would just think that isn't what people are looking for

so ditch the fucking narrative of like oh i've been single for this amount amount of time it's like okay well what do you want do you want to appeal to the narrative of like oh oh i had a boyfriend for this long so it's ticked off or do you actually want to have like a meaningful relationship where you feel true to yourself and all of this stuff what are you actually looking for just adding to what you're saying about being single like how it's crazy that we've created a world where unless you're a twin you're literally born single you're born single and yet we've created this idea that being single is something to be is a half fixed it's like that you're not whole absolutely wild like the gymnastics that our minds have had to do to

convince ourselves that as you were born is not enough is really really you're waiting to be completed and that until you find the sort of missing part you're in some sort of search i do totally get though the idea of even not even just romantic relationships but just relationships in general like we get messages a lot from people being like i'm looking for my best friend like i feel really alone like i have never had a relationship that's different that's actually seeking connection but i think that's the same thing of like if you're seeking you want a friend or you want a boyfriend or whatever you want a romantic relationship you want if you want people in your life of course you do you're human and you're allowed to feel that way like it's we need

that we need to feel connected and um important in our community and like valued and safe with other people life totally but it's i always say and i say it people. What's the meaning of life? Totally. But it's, I always say, and I say it to you guys all the time and you never listen, but I always say, if you're on your own, you are in the best company. Like being on your own

and spending time on your own is not a problem. It's actually really, like I've been saying, the default experience on this planet. And the more time you can spend enjoying yourself getting to know yourself indulging in the things that you want to do and like learning and accepting who you are on this planet the closer you are to feeling that love and validation that you would get from any relationship because you're just giving it to yourself and i don't necessarily believe in the thing of like

before you go out looking for anyone else like uh make sure you're okay first like i think just life is kind of up and life is just not linear like that and if you're going to wait until you're a quote-unquote perfect person until you find somebody that you want to be in a relationship with you will never find someone because i'm sorry to say you're never going to be 100 perfect and fixed you'll be waiting till the day you die but then i also think yeah a hundred percent you're never that's totally true it's just too simplistic but also i think that it's seen as an easy fix that people with that feel incomplete on themselves maybe before you enter into this search like this absolute you're going to put yourself in positions you don't want to be in basically because that's it you're going to be with people you don't like don't respect and don't

respect you the lower opinion that you have on yourself and the more desperation you are to sort of fill that role the the sort of space that you see is unfulfilled you want to put a boy there you're going to pick anyone yeah it's actually that's a scary position to find yourself in don't put a boy there because i do think all of that said about like yeah you're never going to be fixed you're never going to be 100 perfect stable healthy amazing i know everything and i'm in my full form and i'm fully evolved and all of this shit at 23 yeah literally but at the same time i would rather feel shit on my own than feel shit with someone who's making

me feel more shit and i think well that's a different fucking thing yeah i think being around people who you don't necessarily value and who don't necessarily value you back is obviously not the answer um no it's just too simplistic that it it just it's so sexist as well i just think there's this huge thing like the amount that women are looking for this total they are basically primed to be looking for this thing from the moment from so young basically whereas men it's like yeah you can just fuck about you can have fun and when you're 30 maybe think about like oh maybe in the next you want a girlfriend yeah think about the anxiety that the women around you feel about being single and look at the fun the men around you have being single yeah it's completely

is this huge disparity and it comes down to the basically prison the women are in i also think though as well like there's a lot of men are obviously super lonely and like you know they've got their own shit going on they've got a whole they've got a whole host of issues going on right but i also think as women you're sold the idea and i'm sure i know people get it from us too and they're like oh my god like love your guys friendship whatever blah blah blah like we've really sold this idea that like as a woman in order to survive and like thrive on planet earth you need to be surrounded by amazing women oh my god and we all just yeah you've got your girl squad yeah you're surrounded by your sisterhood your blah i mean like you're having um women around you it is really important but it also isn't like another thing to add to the

list of like shaming yourself for not having done well enough like if you're not if that's not where you are right now if that's not where you're at let it go for now like you're allowed to be on your own just you figuring it out yeah it's just life and who are you who do you want that for i think it comes back to the thing that we talk about all the time having nothing to prove like so much of this stuff is actually do you remember my mum said a thing we talk about we spoke about it quite a lot at the beginning of the podcast back about three years ago but people's imagined audiences yeah it's like who are you imagining showing off your new boyfriend to seeing your girl squad or like keeping showing that you're you've been single for six months yeah who do you think is um i think it

can be really helpful because i think there's just everyone feels just like the societal pressure to be perfect at all times we've all unfortunately been rose in this hellscape where that is just a desire of us of humans that we want to be seen as perfect and great if you actually start boiling it down to be like who do i think so i just had a thought that oh my god i should have a boyfriend and it's really embarrassing whatever this person said they've their longest relationship was three months oh god and i'm 30 who do you imagine is judging you yeah boil it down boil it down i reckon it's somewhat either you can't really place it or it's like oh it's kind of that group of girls from work or like it was kind of that from year eight teacher or it's yeah it's that person from

science class kind of said that thing once there'll be someone that you are kind of imagining either critiquing you or like you're finally impressing them yeah a group of a parent whoever and actually when you boil down to your imagined audience it's like i don't give a fuck what they think it doesn't feel right to you if your longest relationship was three months there was a reason why i ended or you ended it or whatever there's a reason why you haven't dived into a new one who is your imagined audience i think so much of it is just getting caught there are two issues it's like yeah if you want the relationship 100 go and fucking get one i'm not lying they're cheap as chips go and get one good one is a different

thing yeah but if you want um cheap as chips they're cheap as chips but if you want to just prove to us to whoever your imagined audience is oh look i've been in this for so long i have an amazing job or whatever i have this girl squad whatever it is that you want girl squad i think let it go i think as well like give yourself a lot of um a bit of a pat on the back i don't maybe i would extend this to everybody here everybody involved anyone whose ears this falls on why don't we just take a minute to say like look you're not doing too bad from where i'm sat forgive me from what i can see it seems like you are doing good and you are really like caning down on yourself like crazy every bloody day something new with this girl i know something sweet if i

know you and i think i do know you by now you're gonna be harsh as shit to yourself and it's actually knackering honestly and i think yeah think, and for example, for this person, like you're the most lost and lonely you've ever been 30 and single. Your longest relationship was three months. It's like, give yourself all the space in the room and the kind of credit in the world for everything that you've been to from zero to 30. Like you were a whole fully fledged human being.

And the most important thing about you is not the fact that you are single right now it is not that weird story i'm 30 and i'm single and my longest relationship was three months that's a story that's also you are an amazing person who's really caring who lives in wherever place and has this job and has that cat that you love or whatever it's just a story that you've hooked on to it's not even anything yeah and i think it's no more real than anything else i think give yourself the room to almost like the fluidity of like i'm feeling lost and lonely right now and that's okay and it's not permanent like i have felt lost and lonely before i'm gonna i'm

gonna presume you felt lost and lonely before it's okay that you're feeling lost and lonely now it's not ideal and it's not what I want for you. But I don't believe that this is your fate. I don't think you are doomed to a long, lonely life feeling lost. That is not going to be your experience here. Because you have it in you to keep going and find more. Also, I would add that i think sometimes with regret also the look on your face was regretfully also i hate to say it but go on no i love to say it but

i think we view things as like so binary of like i'm lost and lonely and now i'm fine and then i maybe have another phase where i'm lost and lonely and then i'm thriving again flop era thriving era flop thriving flop thriving you know we view it like that yeah i kind of think there's an element of lostness that is in the human condition that will continue till the day we die and i think there's something quite stunning and like relaxing about sort of surrendering into that and being like maybe i will never have all the answers to this like i have read enough of the philosophers of this world to know that actually i think this maybe continues like until you're pretty fucking old to know that i'm gonna be lost forever they all seem to be saying it like look i speak to

fucking 70 year olds who are still saying they've got no fucking clue i don't think it i think lonely is a different thing because that's absolutely fucking horrific but there's something quite relaxing about being like i think the lostness maybe is it i think that actually is quite stunning comes with a judgment from feeling lost um because maybe you're not being open with the people in your life and being honest about how you're feeling with them so if you're kind of living with like shame wrapped into feeling lost and then you feel like you don't have anyone in your life that you can express that with you in turn become or you in turn feel lonely but you're not on your own just to be clear there's a ton of other people here who are feeling very lost and lonely as i just said it's part of the human condition it's

literally the mission i think to relax into just like not feeling shit about being lost it's like actually i think that is what the human what it is to be a human on earth to be a bit unsure to be a bit confused and finding your way and finding out about yourself like I personally don't ever want to get to a place where I'm like I fully understand everything I think I'm done done completed I'm done yeah I don't want I actually don't want that there's anyone really especially not for myself no definitely not um okay well this felt a bit um intimate yeah i think so a bit like did you guys pay for that therapy session or what or like sorry your therapist is so shit any tips on the way out would be really nice well i will be standing by the door with a

bucket honestly any donations i hope it made you feel good like tips and also like tips like do you have any tips tips like tips and tips too more importantly i yeah go on i never know what is gonna make people feel good because i feel like i flip so often between like what sort of advice i want do you ever get that where it's like yeah sometime i don't know i just changed my mind on things so uh or like sometimes things that make me feel good make me feel bad but i hope the things we said today made you feel good yeah i think sometimes it's like sometimes you need a bit of tough love sometimes you need a bit of hand-holding sometimes you literally just need to like sit down and cry or just have someone look

at you and be like it's all right yeah. And you are all right and you are okay. And you're going to be fine. You, like, actually in a very genuine way. You really actually are. Yeah, no. I believe it. I know it. Okay.

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