Goes Without Saying - attachment styles & love languages: a child of divorce starter pack

Episode Date: April 2, 2023

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Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And today we're talking about love languages, which is a topic that I think hit the internet

about four years ago, but we did discuss it at the time and I feel like all our ideas have changed. We're talking about attachment styles and kind of all those kind of internet discourse things that kind of limit us, but also kind of give us a little bit of insight into how we really feel. So if you're having any kind of romantic struggles, who you are, kind of what do you want boys to do? You know, you could read some old magazine or you could listen to this i'd say listen to this um so enjoy stunning hey hi how are you how's it going i was gonna get in first how are you we did just do a whole thing guys but it was quite like i gave sephie a look and she gave me a look and we were like should we start this again yeah we literally

got we were only like 10 seconds in yeah it was it wasn't. We were seven minutes in. No. No, it was nothing. I'm already not liking this though. Well, I'm vetoing that. Sorry, I'm just, I'm going to ignore you. We'll be here all day. I'm going to pretend I didn't hear you said that. Yeah.

I think we're bringing good vibes today for once, which is nice. Yeah, I feel like we're in good moods. I messaged you earlier saying, how are you? And you said happy, which I quite like. Words I've never said. Happy.

I love it. I think I'm happy. Yeah. Am I feeling happiness right now no i'm joking i do think i you know i've been happy i know a thing or two about happiness what about you you're feeling a bit happy as aren't you yeah it's a nice day like it was a real blue sky day actually but i look out the window now and it's gray as anything but i got out this morning in a good mood too much of a good thing whistling a little tune couldn't be happier lovely um what are your thoughts on this episode like where do you think we're gonna go i don't know i was thinking about that because we back back back in the day recorded something on love languages once did we do you remember like it was

so long ago and we were slagging off gifting a lot we're like gift is a weird love language we were like what are you in santa's workshop you're a lot we're like gifts is a weird love language we were like what are you in santa's workshop you're a little elf yeah like what is that but then i think okay now i remember our opinions have changed and all of that but i mean i've always been a fan look if you're if your love language is gifting good for you get the gifts i think my i love getting gifts you do and luckily for you i love giving gifts yeah and i actually gave some gifts the other day that i was really excited to give. It was kind of that John Lewis Christmas advert where it's like, he's counting down the days to give the gift.

Do you know the one? I know the one. I'm emotional. Oh, the best. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know where I think this is going to go, but I'm here for just, like, the chat. As usual. Yeah, always.

What more could we want? I also think, should we say we're going to try and record four in a day? Yeah, which we did last time. The last four episodes you've heard were all done in one day. Which we didn't know. Which I think was the... Which I think is incredible. Well, I think it's all right.

Four in a day. I mean, it's hardly like... We can barely do one a week. ...the Lord's work. I know. I do think it's good. But I feel like I was a bit scared of everyone in the last four. So I'm not scared anymore. Okay, that's good think it's good but I feel like I was a bit um scared of everyone in the last four so I'm not I'm not scared anymore okay that's good that's good I feel more scared in this one I think

but I think I'll ease into it we're starting a bit late as well because it's like 12 30 so I don't know if we're gonna get four in but I think it's yeah it worked really well last time and also we're trying so hard to be consistent and things like that and i think i just mean consistent and i think yeah and other other things and other things that you're supposed to do things yeah in life also drinking more water and going outside we're trying a few things we're trying so i think having a few in the bank means that we don't feel scared so we can keep going because we've still got one more to like next week is already covered and we're prepping another fort now yeah i hope you enjoy it god well anyway hard working girl bosses i won't go that far but we are yeah we are how should we

start this episode then how do you want to get in love languages and attachment styles is this something you think about in life i think about attachment styles i have been thinking about attachment styles in recent days let's be careful here because i don't want to start divulging any of your personal information we're not going to divulge no divulging well i mean not that i don't want you that sounds like i'm like okay good because i don't want to hear a peep from you about your romantic relationship i'm also just meaning you know i don't want you to give too much and then we leave the episode on the cutting room floor no no no this is all going in i did make wing cut out like a 10 minute chunk of me just like going on and on about just like shit and then be like that can't go i'm really sorry and then i had a nightmare oh god she like

rang me and was like it's not urgent but i've just been listening to the episode and why have you put that in like really upset and i was like oh my god i was actually like being sick in my dream at the thought of editing it wrong so anyway this is one of the things that i absolutely hate how i am in your dreams like in all of wings dreams i am a monster that's just like you are a piece of shit and you have ruined not only your own life but my life too and now you're gonna pay that's my fear it's my fear it is honestly i'm a nightmare in wings dreams you're not you're not i just don't want to upset you i don't want to let you down anyway you could never you could never anyway it's my fault i talk shit all day on this thing and then go and then i have to cut it all out i do often say as well

whenever i don't know if some of these get left in i probably do leave some in but sephi will be talking obviously i cut everything that you want to cut but whenever you're talking sometimes you hear me say are you sure you want to say you just did you were like let's not divulge yeah just before we get into it but anyway you're thinking about attachment styles recently yeah yeah without divulging too much also there's nothing like interesting it's just me like actually being ridiculous um jokes actually is quite interesting you'd love to know um um wouldn't you like to know yeah um no we're happy for you we're happy for you good yeah i'm glad um sorry i feel like i'm being really

stiff and like we're talking about attachment styles and you've been thinking about it a lot recently be loose and limber loose and limber right let me just warrior too yeah yeah i have been thinking about attachment styles recently i was thinking that i was thinking about childhood trauma and i was thinking that i definitely think i have some kind of issues around rejection like i i hate the feeling of rejection i think everyone can relate to that it's horrible but anything that even yeah i get a feeling of a rejection coming i'm the first person yeah literally i'm the first person to be like well let's just cut it before then like it's like i'm dying to avoid rejection at all costs so i'll actually cut off good things um yeah i then i was

speaking to you and i was like i think i have an anxious attachment style and you were like no you have an avoidant attachment style which i see both for me i see everything for everyone yeah in in this just transcendent world ever changing i'm not gonna tie you down i'm not gonna put a label on you i would never no um but i see that for you in that no i wouldn't dare i would never i'm terrified of you and i will make you i only want to please you master oh god um but i do think i see the thing of you being like you push things away and stuff because and sometimes it means like you're pushing good things away because you don't want it to go wrong which i think is so human and valid and i'm sure everyone can relate it's also just dumb it's also like don't do that like i wish i didn't do that but

well i was saying to you the other day like it's kind of for someone who values like fun and i know that you've you very much feel as you should entitled to fun in life and you prioritize seeking out new experiences and fun experiences and all of these things i don't think it aligns with you to push that away i think no as much as it's a human thing i think it was i was saying to you it's kind of like in a weird analogy of like i would never say to you yeah if you don't get that role you're going to be gutted so don't bother going to the audition i would always say go to the audition like I would yeah I would advocate for you to push yourself into those things and I think you do so I think when I'm really um just speaking about you

sorry you can yeah no that's fine but I really think when you feel yourself doing that you get annoyed with yourself I feel like yeah definitely frustration because no I agree because it doesn't align to be avoidant or fearful they're not things i value so when i do it it's like oh shut up and kind of in that human thing as well sorry of like we often know like we forget that we're just human so it's like well you're gonna have human anxieties then you're gonna be held to like the capacity of what a human can take even though you think and we all think i guess in loads of ways like no but i'm more than just a human. Like, yeah, I need to do this. Or like, no, my thing is real.

I can do this. My standards, I need to meet them. And everything feels so deep and personal to us. We are just human. But anyway. I love that so much. It's hitting more and more. It's brutally hitting me, though, because it's like, I don't want it.

But I know it's true. It is true. Just in the terms of, like, attachment styles, what do you think yours is? Like, I don't even know them all. Well, I don't even know if I would, like, believe in, like, an underpinning attachment style for everyone. But I do think in my life, in my waking life, I see, I feel like, and I was saying to you before we started recording, not to be, like, super Freudian, but I really, really think everything, I do kind of believe in, well, I really believe that in my own life, and definitely I've seen, I've witnessed in others, that I can really pin, I guess anything, you could kind of make reason for anything in hindsight,

but I definitely feel like there are such strong connections with your earliest experiences of like your childhood. And the house that you or the place that you grew up in. And like the adults that you were around as a child. And those really formative baby experiences. I think I definitely see play out in my life now as an adult. And I see it amongst my friends and I think socially like I don't know if many people would argue against that. I'm not saying you don't have any free will, I'm not saying like oh my god you're just a clone of a person and like

you know everything's predestined for you at like age five but I think I think it goes without saying to be honest that those early experiences are really really significant in the way that your mind like shapes the ideas of like what love means and what stability means and what is safety and your worth and your value and your self-esteem and how to interact with people and like what is normal and acceptable and what is not acceptable and what what isn't um a standard that you're willing to take um in terms of like behavior with other people and i feel like as children of divorce not even divorce me just a straight up so true just they just split no marriage involved little bastard over here well that's quite yeah you are you're such a little bastard no you're such a little bastard and even divorce aside and

like our parents relationships specifically i do think like even the way that we watch the adults in our life like potentially our parents love or not love themselves like their own insecurities i'm sure later on inform our own insecurities and all of that shit i just think we were fucked from the start we had there was not a chance yeah yeah no definitely i've been definitely thinking about that in oh for years like literally for years i've been thinking in what ways did like my parents splitting up impact like i've been thinking about like me and like my siblings not to drag them into it as well but like our relationships to like romance and like um

relationships and things like that and it's just undeniable like the the image that you have of like what a relationship is and what like romance is and then when you add in like the influence of like media on that as well like you just have such a confused fucking thing but like i do think that like basically my parents splitting up definitely like this happened when i think it happened to both of us at the same age we were in like year six which is like primary school we were young we're young kids and i living the same living the same life of our lives parallel lines literally crying together at the same time we didn't even know each other i think i thought oh that didn't really do anything to me like that was just a thing that happened it's just not that deep like it's not the worst fucking thing in the

world even though at the time i thought it was awful but like i'm not human like my parents divorcing won't impact me like i can see way past that yeah we're just like everyone's fucking parents divorced like yeah like yeah you yeah you and fucking the rest of everyone else but then i was like i am seeing so many like mirrors to that and like um certain fears that i have of like repeating that or like if i see any behaviors that are like reminiscent of like people not communicating i'm like no i can't like i definitely think it's i knew from an early age that is not something i would ever want like the way that that happened i would not want that to happen to me yeah um or like that yeah that isn't a fun experience i wouldn't i definitely

would not want my kids to go through that in the way that it happened to me which was pretty normal and not that bad but like it does i think i'm realizing how deep it goes in like when things like that happen to you so young definitely and i i think as well like even if we've all been impacted by so many things and i think the majority of people that i encounter in my life and i feel like the majority of relationships that we all have like how interconnected we all are and the relationships that i see in the people that i meet i do feel like socially we don't have the capacity to articulate exactly that just yet not like look at us little old sephian wing having such a profound and groundbreaking conversation no one's ever spoken about love languages before but more so like i definitely felt in my experience as a child like i was not

really given i think it's no surprise to me that you kind of felt like when your parents divorced it was just like all right get on with it get over it sort of thing and i definitely felt the same way and every other yeah movie you've ever watched like have a little jacqueline wilson book and get on with it like clean break that was the book i read to get over it me too so we really cut the cover yeah wow stunning really living the same same age same life we would be when i remember reading that book on a plane really i i don't know but i remember looking at the cover and being like i guess that one's me like the oldest child like i guess that one's them that's me oh dear well i was a little old mate all on my own oh god always lonesome without me um but yeah i don't think we're well at least in my experience i didn't see anyone being raised to have the awareness of like oh your childhood is going

to be impacting you guys and like i in turn then don't think i don't see that for my parents and my parents generation i don't think they were made aware of a lot of the ways that their parenting was going to inform us i'm not saying my parents were dumb and i'm grateful my parents tried their best but obviously the conversation has massively grown over even the past like 10 years and absolutely exploded on social media and i feel like any parents out there listening i don't know how god i don't know how you're doing it like watching kind of like reels about like oh you should um raise your parent raise your child in it well if you're anything like me and sephia you are raising

your parents but um any parents out there watching those things it's like have a gentle approach do this don't do that oh my god never say no yeah goodness me huh goodness me and i don't think there was really much conversation like that happening definitely not towards my parents um so it's no surprise that like people in my natefi's generation i would say are just now learning like that it's okay almost to acknowledge that your parents have and like your early life has really formed you and there's going to be like little parts of you that are really reminiscent or like that are kind of like little relics or like time capsules of like where you were in that moment 15 years ago i don't think there's any shame in that and i think it's really interesting and in a way it can be kind of beautiful that you're still that same like innocent little baby.

And like you're still that same soul. And you are just human and you're being like shaped by all the things around you. I think it can be really useful because we can learn to like unpack the shit that we've carried with us. And like find new ways to ditch the things and behaviors that we don't want anymore but i definitely think it's also kind of got that element of like woo woo like who's got the time for that like it's a bit kind of laugh you out of town like oh she's in therapy i'd definitely still think therapy has a huge stigma like all of these things kind of feed into maybe too much navel gazing um i don't, like a self-diagnosis kind of vibe.

Yeah, definitely. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever.

I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson, and this is A Field Guide to Gay Animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part. Find A Field Guide to Gay Animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com Yeah, I think it's almost like, I don't know, when you put anything on social media, it just becomes a bit dumb. I definitely think the's almost like i don't know when you put anything on social media it just becomes a bit dumb i definitely think the whole like the amount of different sort of parenting techniques

there would be oh my god i would feel very overwhelmed like which one do you pick it's like can't i just use my own intuition like do i have to pick a style i think you have to accept that you're gonna fuck up as well surely also that's the whole thing with like love languages and um what's the other fucking thing attachment styles it's like these terms are useful to a certain extent but i also think they can be limiting like yeah to pick one love language that you think is your love language and it's like okay so my love language is i i would think my love language is quality time for example i think that would be it okay lovely but someone wrote in actually someone

wrote in to saying that let me get it exactly word for word i think i know the one really i think so they said i used to think i hated physical affection but now that's starting to change is that the one you thought no no so for example i've always gone for the last few years since i saw the love language discourse appear i've been thinking okay i think mine's quality time wouldn't mind some words of affirmation i'll take them in abundance for you i've got some things i'll take some things yeah i also wouldn't mind some acts of service if you've got any any energy yeah um but i think i've always identified as someone that doesn't like um to be touched unless i'm literally having sex with you or you unless i'm attracted to you and it's i'm

not known to be a hugger no and i think you can vouch for that yeah i'm not known to be a cuddly girl i wouldn't mind a little cuddle every now and then but well this is well you may get one because okay i've been trying to make a real effort because it's almost become a running joke of how un like i'm i'm not a snuggle bug she's no snuggle bunny guys i'm not a snuggle bunny i'm not known as it and i actually find it quite sad like i don't um hug my sister i don't hug my mom i don't hug and like and my sister and my mom hug like i'm just known as yeah yeah i'm like my mom will be like just give me a hug do two seconds sort of thing she's like just give me a two second hug i'm like one two i'm what don't you like about it i almost think it's like no i don't i don't know i think i think you get yourself in a rut and it's almost like god i can't

in a rut like you're not it's not part of your identity to be a hugger and then i think people start treating you like you're not a hugger like yeah i definitely treat you like you're not a hugger if i was to hug my friend they might say something like god that was awkward well when you hug me it's not nice it's like you're already you're already walking away it's like yeah yeah lightning like blink and you'll miss it like did i get a little hug or no i think it i think it must like it it has to come down to a neurodivergent thing as well like it like it just definitely does that i've never been yeah into like a big hugging or like i'm not going to be on the sofa sort of like snuggling away snuggling up to my friend's feet if i'm fancy and i'm having sex with you then yes i

will 100 love that but get your fucking stinking feet away from me if i'm not we're learning a lot i think if it's like i don't know but i think like you get yourself in an identity of it i think i identify as like well i'm not a physical touch that's not how i show my love unless it's like a romantic thing i don't show my love to you no by sitting there brushing your hair i wouldn't say no in a way why the fuck not oh i don't know why not i'm all for it it's not that i want to buy you a gift any more than i want to brushing your hair i wouldn't say no but in a way why the fuck not oh i don't know why not i'm all for it it's not that i want to buy you a gift any more than i want to brush your hair sure well there's there's definitely a certain element of vulnerability i think that comes with touch and introducing touch into a certain dynamic if you started smuggling by buzzle on me every day i would be a bit like jesus what's gotten into it would be a bit it

would be a bit much however that's not to say there's anything wrong with it do you i don't know if i've spoken about this on the podcast it makes it so you're no snuggler by basilar but no no no no i remember i've spoken about them before and i'm sure i'm sure lots of people know them and love them already but bonnie rebecca and emily hunt um they like make videos and they're just great but i remember them speaking about their friendship and how like they touch and like they'll be sitting together and kind of leaning on each other or like someone's like holding someone's hand or that they break that physical barrier a lot because and they kind of i'm gonna butcher what they were saying but it was something along the lines of the crux was like you know you

get that kind of intimacy that physical intimacy in like a romantic relationship but a lot of the time in adult life apart from that you're kind of starved of that like physical like nurturing and it really is like i i have in a way i've seen you do this too like i think getting on the same like physical wavelength with someone is quite important like almost especially in a moment of tension definitely to kind of cut through and like look into someone's eyes maybe share a warm embrace a snuggle by buzzle it really cuts through and like brings you back to i hate to say it guys but the human aspect of you're just two humans two egos two brains two loads of childhood in a weird world

i have a thing with one of my friends that because i'm known not to be a hugger we do a thing whenever we see each other and we kind of touch each other's hands like she would put her hand on top of my hand and we like kind of look into each other's eyes and that's kind of like the aligning of like hey really weird like people treat me like i'm two years old like genuinely like that that's what we do that's almost like hi i haven't seen you in a while we're just like touch hands yeah in a weird way as if we're about to kind of do i don't know what kind of a ballroom dance it's like yeah it's very light touch on the hand yeah and we stack our hands on top of each other um and i think it's just things like that that or like yesterday my friend dyed my hair and like is touching my head and stuff and it's not really something that i

it's not that i feel uncomfortable with that like 100 like people would cut my hair down hair the whole fucking time because i refuse to pay for a hairdresser i get free labor from these people but like i do think i'm trying i'm really trying to make a conscious effort of being like there's a certain amount of like you were uncomfortable clearly with hugging people and like snuggling by puzzling with people at 12 and you just continued that um and there's no literally there is no reason why i wouldn't like it's like yeah okay you'll literally lick your dog's mouth but you won't um touch your sister's arm like yeah what the fuck yeah what the fuck alarm bells red flag for me right there but it's like i share a bed with her every fucking night but i'm not like cuddle i don't want to fucking cuddle her get your fucking body away from me but even her elbow touched me i go nuts but like there's no reason why i wouldn't shouldn't hug

you when i see you even though i do yeah you do but the regretted teeth yeah it's like and here it comes yeah you've sucked yourself into it only eight hours until the next hug right okay like god get preparing for that um but i like that vibe as well to bring back bonnie and emily of saying like as adults as well it's kind of like you really go through life on your own and when you are around people that you love like it's quite nice to make the most of it get your cuddles definitely i've also noticed with me and you that we just on the note of bonnie and rebecca bonnie and rebecca bonnie rebecca and emily hunt i believe you said i don't know who this girl is i only know bonnie rebecca from back in the day um she made me a whole watermelon um she didn't

she didn't um yeah she made me 12 bananas a day she didn't i've never met this girl there's no slaw in design obviously it goes without saying yeah her and a random girl called asina yeah made me eat 12 bananas you got through you're on the other side i'm way through the other side yeah and i hope you are too bonnie yeah i wish you so much i wish you well and you asina wherever you are freely i think we wish everyone well harry if you're listening wishing you well wishing you well but i've noticed that we me and you i've watched back some of our live videos that we've done they're on our instagram if you haven't seen them and we're bloody we're snuggled by buzzled in that we're over each other i think i quite grip and grab you yeah i think we're quite all over each other. And I think it's because when you're... All over each other.

We can't get enough. When you're looking at a camera and you're having that dynamic of like, you're talking to each other, but you're looking at a camera. Through a lens, you want some sort of emotional support. You want some kind of... Yeah, connection.

Connection, I think. Because we wouldn't necessarily sit on the sofa watching The Office. I see there's a picture of Michael Scott next to next to you right now comes to my mind every day but that's jogging my memory we're watching the box set of the office yeah yeah and we wouldn't necessarily be like grabbing each other i think i do grab you i kind of tap you and i go look at that or i go like yeah i kind of shake you and i go can you believe that like i'm trying to bring some physicality to you yeah yeah i would

get a little bit of a beating or something no it's with love it's with love it's soft and gentle always with love but i think we do it more when we're filming which is right well we're keeping up the fake relationship for the social media um i thought this message was really interesting back on the um love languages no there's actually a couple here and i'm gonna tie them together because i think they link quite nicely this is kind of the awareness of love languages like in your romantic relationships or like in the dating world um potentially there are some men involved i don't know your life but we're getting yeah we're in we're in the ickable zone this person said people often use quote we just have different love languages to excuse mistreatment and somebody else says i see that someone else says do not share

your own information like of your love languages in early on in the relationship never trust a man with that info interesting that's so interesting yeah because they're just going to perform that thing to you because they think that's all you need do you remember that tweet that was like um i ignore her for days and then i text her at 11 11 so she thinks like we're destined in the universe or something it's like i've got an alarm set for 2 22 so that i can text her that is do you remember i got a text once at 22 22 and we were quite happy we were at a party and it's at university and i got a text from a boy at 22 22 and we're like that's well that's meant to be

there's no other way around it oh my god you're destined but i think that's interesting like withholding information or yeah that is interesting i think it's really interesting people being like oh well um you know we just have different love languages so kind of get over it like almost in the way of like well you're asking too much of me so get over it sort of thing and i'm not gonna lie i'm not gonna expose anyone here but sometimes you lot send us your personal messages with people that you're dating or maybe even boyfriends girlfriends and sometimes i'm absolutely pulled to the floor i hope you're all okay but the state that some of these people are talking it actually like it gets my heart pumping it gets my adrenaline going and i i said in a voice note the

other day i was like i literally want to run and i'm saying this now to all of you harry i speak directly to you i want to run to all of your homes or whatever bus or like tube or whatever uni you're at whatever work you're in right now and bubble wrap you up and take you home and me and sophie are going to put you in a bubble bath and we're going to give you a little hot chocolate and you're never going to speak to them again we're going to i a little hot chocolate and you're never gonna speak to them again we're gonna i would honestly i would rather you drown than speak to some of these people because they have no respect in bubble wrap and dunk you in a bar with love we all take a beating with love with love guys because the way that people speak honestly but i feel like the vibe of being like we just we're just not compatible like you're

asking things of me that i can't give and that's on you like your love language is your issue it's a bit like who the fuck are you talking to excuse me it's a bit weird excuse me yeah um yeah rude so but withholding it is interesting as well because it's almost like you're not trusting because i wouldn't think of it as particularly intimate information right what your love like it's just like oh it's kind of bollocks anyway it's kind of star sign energy right yeah whatever yeah i don't know withholding it's just an interesting thing because it's almost like what do they think they're gonna do they're gonna shower you with gifts people are crazy like they might um use it against you for sure i don't doubt it but it's

almost like yeah do they think that it's gonna be okay so she wants quality time i'm just going to spend time with her and then like the other things like what i don't know we're kind of in a bit of a narcissist maybe love bombing way it's a bit like if they know the way to your heart i don't know they know how to fuck you over as well but they yeah that yeah that's so true but say like your love language is gifts yeah it doesn't mean any old fucking gift does it right like it means a thoughtful specific thoughtful gift like it doesn't mean go buy me a fucking bath bomb it means like someone has gone out of their way and like basically means someone's thought of you they've been in a moment that you weren't there put in the effort

yeah it's kind of that scene from new girl when it's like you buy me cookie i give you cookie man i gave you cookie give you cookie man that one because it's like i thought i walked past a cookie and i thought nick would like that yeah and i didn't when nick buys schmidt back a cookie he's like no i don't want just a cookie you've got to think of me in a moment that I'm not there. And you think, oh, Schmidt would like that. Right. So it's not just buy me fucking cookies. So your love language is gifts.

You think that can't be manipulated, basically. No, I think anything can. Look, I've been dating men for quite a while now and they're fucking crazy. I'm asked to manipulate this. It's a dangerous world out there. Like. I think also between, I've never been in a relationship with a girl or a woman i should say but i do think there's something about entering into a romantic

or sexual dynamic with a girl coming in with the same or similar knowledge like your venn diagram of experience crosses over in a way that for example my venn diagram of experience would never cross over if i was to be dating a man yeah and you're coming in already with almost like you know you can see that she's put makeup on so you know what that the effort that that has required exactly you can see for example she shaved her pubes interesting you're making notes there's judgments being thrown across that almost a lot of men i know this is sweeping statement but a lot of men are naive too definitely well do you know what a huge thing i definitely noticed was on a date with a guy you can wear like almost quite like a dressed

up outfit and they're they're not gonna even notice you can go a bit like sexy with it but on a date with a girl it's almost a bit like if you show up in like a kind of clubbingy outfit and they show up in a fucking t-shirt and jeans the there is judgment isn't there it's jarring it's weird they know the effort that's gone in so i think with a girl it's everything is just way more transparent yeah yeah they most likely will have heard of love languages as well i feel like exactly if you go in on a date with a guy you've been dating for a while i wouldn't really recommend this as first date combo well unless his ex has told him all about it oh yeah literally yeah but i would imagine you could say to a guy what's your love language and he rolls his eyes what's that

english yeah i speak a little bit of italian i did french i went to greece once yeah i mean it's ridiculous like whereas a girl i think is going to be like oh i think it's the state of the world a girl is going to come in bring you fucking constructive argument she's going to give you point evidence explanation just read the book she's been listening exactly she's bringing insight she's been listening exactly she's bringing insight she's bringing bell hooks she's bringing in all of the references and you're having a whale of a time yeah it's an issue that is an issue yeah dramatic for all the men out there that we don't want to date it's actually unfortunate i'm in a long-term relationship by the way with a man

no regrets yeah exactly but also if we were to break up i've really set him up for the next lady the next he's gonna do perfect he's gonna he's gonna be amazing he'll pass every test with flying colors i've set him up right he knows what he's doing you really have um it's yeah i don't know i think i mean dating man comes with a whole host of issues honestly like it's not it's crazy um i quite like this message because i think it ties up it's kind of the crux of speaking about a concept like this on a podcast and kind of every topic i guess but this person said the idea of love languages and attachment styles they basically said i think they're reduced so much that they become devoid of complexity and individuality which i think yeah i don't know

about you but i think the majority of people are learning about love languages and attachment styles maybe you get through you know a nod here and they do a module or two in school at uni whatever a conversation with an interesting friend maybe you get a little bit enlightened but i do think generally speaking the majority of us are hearing a lot of these terms the majority of the time on the internet and on social media and so we're kind of being drip fed like the aesthetics of actually like a theory someone's like life's work it's like someone's psychological theory and like this is like so sociological like is that what they are are they are they like sociological attachment

style i always view them as like dumb things i don't know the history of love languages i'm sure it's from a psychologist somewhere but who's to say how acclaimed that psychologist is or who even are they i'm literally just making this up off the top of my head and everyone's listening like this is what happens when we listen to podcasts by people who don't know what they're talking about but attachment styles is you study that in school and it's across psychology and child development and there is like a real like quite a heavy awareness of it i think in that kind of circle but the discourse that we're mostly talking about and the discourse i think that really it comes up in the majority of people's lives it's just kind of like the surface level like chatter like when it's kind

of pick one that you like the sound of and identify with it makes a little bit of sense for you like whatever i think acts of service yeah i love that yeah which is nice maybe that's harmless yeah but yeah yeah no i think it's harmless it's almost like that's it it's one of those things it depends how deep you take it doesn't it like yeah if for you it's a casual fun little thing that you do a uh test you do your kind of myers-briggs test and you know you've been listening to what for a while we quite of myers-briggs test and you know you've been listening to what for a while we quite like myers-briggs test i'd love to do one my friend messaged me the other day being like i did my myers-briggs test again and it's exactly the same she was like it would have definitely changed and it's like that's crazy i've known

this girl for i don't know eight years seven six seven years and from the day i first met her to the day now she's done it a few times in the middle it's always been the same i think mine has always been the same as well it's like same as well god your childhood is mental the impact that has is crazy that it can actually form you and your core personality traits don't change like really it's mad i do think like we kind of there are so many things that just go without saying you don't question it like for example how old were you when you learned to tie your shoes um four three i don't know how how many times have you thought i should probably like adjust my skills or like take stock of like the way that i'm doing it maybe i could find a more

efficient way or maybe this isn't working maybe i should learn a new way or I wonder if I could do it quicker no we don't care we learned that skill once as a child we stick to it it just keeps building as we get older in the same way that you learned that you were going to be rejected by the people in your life that you love no offense trigger me too and we learned that once and we hold on to it and it just keeps getting confirmed over and over again like by little things like we don't go to that audition for example and we avoid the rejection and then we cement that further and we just kind of like retain and perpetuate this cycle of all of these which is why challenging it ourselves in like how stunning is it when you challenge it as well because like it feels unnatural like i do

think at the moment i'm really doing that thing again without divulging too much but like if if the fear is that if the lesson that was learned was men are not to be trusted men hurt women yeah um don't don't let them in they can be a fun thing don't let them in at all costs yeah um lock the doors when you go beyond that when you actually challenge that and it's like and you like it's horrible when then your lesson is confirmed that it's like yeah men do hurt women blah blah blah and it's and it trust me that gets confirmed time and time again you've only got to look around the world yeah but when the lesson is shifted slightly it's like oh wait i do have power as a woman like i'm not this tiny thing in like that's

at men's mercy like i do have control and letting them in and with actual genuine vulnerability isn't the worst thing you can do in the world yeah it is actually crazy to unlearn that in this in the smallest ways because i also still believe fucking hell dangerous dangerous being but slowly but surely this is giving me an interesting um it's reminding me of something my therapist keeps talking about who i think i've said on the podcast i'm obsessed with her in an in a healthy way rachel's listening but i am rachel yeah she's so good i'm gonna share her wisdom for free right now guys listen up you've probably all heard of it but there's she was talking about basically kind of like a concept and she was calling it a mental crusher okay and you have a mental crusher i have a mental crusher mental crusher we all have a mental crusher okay it's

giving me that advert it's like i want some crusher we have said that advert too like one too many times like even to mention it once is too much on a podcast like what how often in life are people bringing that up to you guys and yet for some reason we've said i want some credit to make music or whatever it is we've said that multiple times it used to play in cinemas not as the film not as the now showing not as the feature film no no it wasn't the feature film but it would play before films that you'd be going to watch like harry potter five and it would be cats cartoon cats holding up weights in a gym going i

want some crusher what a fun time i know what time to be alive i love that um well anyway you've got one in your in your head a mental crusher so basically let's say you've your early life let's say you were introduced to the world thank fucking god for that touch wood for your existence so happy about that let's touch wood so my lucky stars that sephi came here um i'm sure you had plenty of options and i'm glad you chose to come to earth thank you we're honored um i'm having some regrets please stay as long as possible um so you come to this planet and you're slowly taking in information in experiences relationships all of these things your very early life and you're building up these core beliefs

and let's say you're you have this thing in you it's called a mental crusher and it's the way that your brain is perceiving the world okay oh okay let's say yours is in the shape of a star a five-pointed star lovely kind of would be wouldn't it yeah yeah that sounds good yeah that sounds good to me you are interacting with the world when you see a star you collect it so your star is saying for example yeah your star is saying to you um men abandon women for example just hypothetically speaking yeah okay no one's hypothetically but in real so it's completely true in real experience like that is what we're talking about yeah that is very much on the nose exactly yeah this is pretty on the nose so your star is telling you men abandon women

that's the truth that's our core belief when you go about life you see other stars and they're also telling you yeah men abandon women and every time you see that you collect the star okay so what happens when for example you see a circle you think well that possibly that couldn't possibly be right i'm not taking in that circle it doesn't fit in my mental crusher a circle won't fit into my star that won't fit i'll have to dismiss it i'll have to find a way to convince myself that this can't be accurate so i'll have to say he was just raised differently like you know he was with a single man he's just he's the one exception or well he's gonna leave her eventually you know that can't be true i would actually just think um he hasn't left her yeah let's wait yeah let's wait and see he'll switch

out he's only 27 let's let's wait but even so it's kind of true um but anyway you see circles and you think i'm not taking in that circle. I don't believe in circles. I believe in stars. And that my whole life has proven to me that stars are real and circles are not. I have the evidence. I've built up years and years and years of evidence in the shape of stars. And every time I get a circle, it doesn't fit. So I find a reason as for why it cannot be true because it doesn't align with my idea of reality. as for why it cannot be true because it doesn't align with my idea of reality so you have this kind of mental crusher in your being that is seeking out evidence for your core beliefs which

could be things like i am not good enough people will abandon me rejection is dangerous all these valid like human things yeah when you get something that tells you otherwise for example someone's actually showing you interest and they look like they're going to stick around you look like you've got a healthy relationship no i'm going to push it away because i'm convincing myself that things in that shape don't honestly guys you need to get booked in with rachel she's just iconic she's she's honestly tearing my brain apart and restructuring it every day um do you know what the crux of that is yeah of what she's saying it's something that we heard a million years ago and we clung on to and we've been saying everything you find the evidence

for what you choose to believe and it really is that with your believing star star star star stars you're only going to see star star star stars you're seeing stars yeah we can't blame you for that you're finding the evidence oh you know why you choose to believe you're only fucking human yeah sorry sorry hate to break it to break it to you guys and trust me it is bad and it is bad news being a human here um well that was nice that was really nice that was an amazing little bit at the end i love rachel good oh so do i honestly i if we could have any guests we were saying the other day we're like we're never having we don't have guests like who would it be sometimes people say like oh like do you ever want to get

guests on your podcast like maybe like when your podcast gets big you'll have guests like if you had a real podcast you'd have guests and i always say the conversation is very much i think between me and sephia and that very specific dynamic that we have and also we're doing this over a laptop so if there was a third laptop involved just it would be so clunky and weird um jesus but you do need rachel's wisdom you yeah yeah also we get emails from people all the time being like i nominate which i didn't know was a thing you like that when you have a podcast you get emails from like ceos it's just marco saying i nominate the ceo of this company to be on your thing it's like who's we have nominations like it's nothing personal but we are declining every single last one every single one unless it's a

real show the other day who would it be nana yeah nana miley cyrus i will only accept nana or miley cyrus to be honest like i could stretch like i could absolutely stretch if we got like kind of steve carell oh my god well he's welcome anytime he's welcome any time even him it's like look you've got to have some what's your love language exactly he's really going to shake things up it's going to it's going to require a lot of like mental figuring out a lot of mental crushing is going to happen we've only known stars stars wouldn't understand no he wouldn't but we understand him and that's all that matters oh i understand the inner workings i think i've analyzed heavily i've spent hours of my life let's go before this goes a bit mad yeah thanks guys hope you're doing well yeah hope you're doing well we'll see you for you it will

be another week for us it'll be a mere 10 minutes. See you around. Let's keep this weird energy going. Yeah. If you don't hear from us, assume the worst. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap.

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