Goes Without Saying - avoidance, balance & boundaries: we support women's rights (and wrongs) !!

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

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I really like this episode. I know I say that every week, but I think this is such a good one if you've been sat around avoiding your life and that long list of things that you need to do and you want some support and hand-holding through this stressful experience that we call life on earth this is us trying to get to the crux of the difference between setting boundaries and actively taking time for yourself giving yourself what you need versus being self-destructive in the long term and being avoidant and making things harder for yourself and isolating and all of those awful things that I do every week hope you enjoy

hey hey coming to you again from the time difference yeah it's bizarre we won't even get i've been looking actually through your windows and it's pitch black it's it's dark outside so of course it's well it's five to seven p.m i mean that's just mad what about you it's um four minutes to 11 a.m you just saw me eat a cinnamon bun i had my breakfast with you and two cups of tea it looked really good it was really good um bit weird vibes i think from me do you think yeah we've been we've been really like introspective this morning yeah we have we've gone in quite deep haven't we yeah we have for no reason i think we've been torturing ourselves no but i think i think it was quite needed for me maybe for no reason for you

but i've just dragged you down into my pits, but into my armpits. Speaking of armpits, I've got something to say in a minute. Oh, go on. No, say it now. American deodorant is so dry. It's like dragging a dry thing. What are you using? A little stick situation. So like, yeah, I would use roll-on.

I said secret. Secret. What? What deodorants we use? No. I would. Don't they have a brand called secret i mine's the one i'm using is just a dove one i was like okay cool that i know where i stand with that

fucking opened it's like this fucking is like a square like a fucking rectangle square thing maths and you fucking like have to drag this yes a stick thing over your armpit right it's so weird yes where's just like roll on secret deodorant secret yeah that's coming from my like 2011 youtuber knowledge when all the girlies used to use secret deodorant i don't know if i'm making that's giving me like an impulse vibe yeah i guess and i'm still here but yeah i've just been in a weird mood because i i was saying earlier to stuffy i feel and like i'm saying to everyone every day i feel in a sense better than ever but also so low to the to rock bottom yeah i don't know i feel like i'm either about to move i'm about to like close the chapter and move into like I'm about to step

off a cliff onto like the clouds and soar through the sky or plummet to my death and I don't know when I kind of completely agree like I feel like I know that vibe so much of like it will be a gust of wind that will take me either way like i could either be just thinking oh my god i'm just in the best mood i'm just so happy with everything right now or one minor thing could change and it might not even be like a tangible thing in life one tiny thing could change in my brain somewhere and then i'm suddenly like i need to get into bed oh my god what the fuck like i'm so close to both of those at the moment do you ever feel detached from your life like you're not a from your life like you're

not a real person and like you're just kind of like going through the motions of being a human being yeah okay yeah that's good i think that's normal yeah i do feel like that yeah i think especially at the moment where it's like i'm not um around my usual people at all like i'm very much living every day getting up being like right what the fuck do i want to do here like it's very easy to be like right what this can't be real what the fuck are you doing like i definitely think yeah there's definitely a level of detachment that is like yeah inherent in being on being and spending any period of time on your own so i asked on the story and i kind of the

the crux of the episode today is what's the difference and like how do we find the balance between setting like healthy boundaries and taking time to yourself to feel good in yourself to work on yourself to like feel safe and secure and healthy like in your own body and soul as a human being on this planet so woo woo or what's the difference between that and then just like detaching zoning out pulling yourself away like when is it too much when is it too much introspection when is it too much when is it like unhealthy and because i think that's what i'm i feel like i'm towing the line at the moment of like i don't think i've ever felt so um passionately about myself and like taking care of myself and i'm really like

in a tangible sense drinking loads of water and like doing all of those annoying things like going on long walks and like spending time with friends and eating things that i like and doing all of these things to take care of myself but i also feel so detached at the same time and so we put that on the story like what's the line and i guess i'm just asking for a friend really i don't know what i'm gonna say here but it just feels at the moment i just feel really like i don't know how to show up for you guys every monday because i don't know if that's what's best for me it's definitely not what's best for everyone else to listen to like it's not what's best for you it's probably not what best not what's best for sephi either being dragged through everything like i just always think what am i

doing like i just i just feel weird i feel so weird at the moment i think that is totally fucking normal to start off with 100 pretty much agree with everyone that you just said also like i think the listeners can tell that at the moment like not just from you but from both of us like i think there's definitely an energy an energy of i definitely think we're struggling with consistency more than we have before like i think and i'm talking about like the last like maybe like four month period and i'm leaving podmas out of that because we were so consistent and so and i did tell you not to get used to it guys. But like I definitely think like we're in a period of working out what our boundaries are with this with ourselves as well and also like how we can make this a sustainable consistent

thing for us in our way but like showing up maybe and giving stuff that we're not ready to give is not the way to make a consistent sustainable fucking thing well i agree with you and i think my problem that i'm having is more than anything i want to i want to give everyone what they want and like i it's the most meaningful thing to get that's why we like it's the most stressed about it so come on like it's the it's the best thing in the world to like get a moment to chat with everyone on a monday like that is the it's objectively the most special thing i think maybe i'll ever know like maybe if i ever have a kid touch wood maybe that might rival it potentially but beyond she can fucking try what's more meaningful than being able to like have a nice conversation and share it and like have this sense of people in the world and it means something and it's so embarrassing and cringy

but it's like so beyond anything. It's so meaningful. And I want more than anything to be able to like do it well and I want people to know that I wanna do it well. But like you said, like sharing things that we're not ready to, how do we make that sustainable? Like by, you know, we can make it sustainable

by not sharing things that we're not ready to. But feel like i'm at a point where i'm like i think all of me is a thing that i'm not ready to share right now which is so weird because i'm the same me that i was like two months ago i guess but i think i'm just i'm just going through something there's obviously something happening here that i can't quite put into words i don't know i don't know i just think that's completely normal and also how many times have you felt like that throughout these few years that we've been doing this i feel like we go through phases where we're like suddenly it feels like everything about you is so embarrassing and it's like right i can't do this like like i was just saying that i listened to the last week's episode i was like right i'm gonna listen to that

i remember that being a really nice episode and there was one point where i said i'm just opinionated and i thought shut the fuck up which also proves that you're opinionated you are what an embarrassing thing to say i'm just opinionated it's like oh my god i hate you i hate you i hate you i hate you everything about you i hate but i think at the moment as well it's like i don't it's not even like it's kind of the opposite of it's like yes i'm so mortifying that i can't share any of me but for the first time i think i'm like i think it's i'm so sacred and like even our relationship i'm like this is so pure and special and i just i'm feeling the dangers of sharing my my shit more than ever i think i'm just at a place where i'm like who do i trust in this world like i

think it's hard to to share your shit and like really try and go in with like good intentions and and and try and make people feel good it's just scary and i think i i think every few months i get into this cycle of like you'll really knock out for this and i don't know how long you're gonna be able to swing it and like string it along for like i don't know how much longer i'm shaking my head i know this is giving me three go on three things yeah the first vibe is giving is giving me too much navel gazing oh which was a thing we were actually kind of just talking about we didn't use the word navel gazing but it was on the tip of our tongues it was on the tip of our tongue we were talking about it was i was saying it didn't need to be said but we knew it was a conversation we both know we're

talking about navel gazing yeah yeah obviously um we were i was saying that i have been journaling a lot here and you were saying like that's a dangerous game if i'm journaling a lot like yeah and i was saying no it's good it gets my thoughts out blah blah but then i do think i mean we were saying that it leaves a lot of room for if you're spending a lot of time on your own you're journaling a lot you we know that the mind can do crazy things before you know it you're going down rabbit holes so it's giving me a navel gazing vibe like i almost think you're thinking about something therapy session and you know what the therapist actually said to me she was like i think you need to cut down on the emotional

connection that you have with your listeners wow okay and i was like fuck you i was actually actually they're the most special thing to me so you can go we were gonna have a wedding um i don't know i and i don't i'm not cutting down on the emotional i think it's i think it's a balance of being able to appreciate that we're fucking lucky to get to do this and it's insanely special and i know that when we say some random thing that like hits one girl in alaska really hard or we say a stupid thing and it makes a girl on the tube laugh and she looks like a fucking freak in the garage that means something accomplished yeah and it's balancing that with also knowing i guess that i don't have to give everything and i'm just a fucking human being trying her best and i'm i'm

dumb and i'm stupid and i can't hold myself to this ridiculous standard of being amazing and consistent and hilarious and intelligent and all of these ridiculous things that i'm just not i'm just not and i think part of this journey for me has been yeah but i'm not i think part of the set i think every few months i have to come to accept that i'm not a very good podcaster content creator like whatever it is sorry i have to i have to step in i have i must step in but it's true it's true we can't fight it it's true but what standard i first of all have you listened to podcasts recently on twitter not really no no because i've been listening to some i've been listening to some and i would have to say you are a good podcaster you're holding yourself to a standard that doesn't exist because when i've been listening

to some and i'm not talking about the amazing ones that maybe you guys have i'm talking about like i've been listening to some like mainstream highly produced fucking podcasts and i've been listening to some, and I'm not talking about the amazing ones that maybe you guys have, I'm talking about like, I've been listening to some like mainstream, highly produced fucking podcasts and I've been thinking, these are shit. These are not funny. These are not good. I'm sorry,

but what standard are you holding yourself to? Because from where I'm looking, you're one of the best in the game. Thank you. Thanks. Right back at you. Oh, I don't, I know it.

Like we actually, I do think like the only thing this will do the kind of i'm not good enough i'm a shit podcaster i'm not funny i'm not i'm not hilarious all of this stuff yeah no not even i'm not funny i'm not hilarious enough exactly exactly difference i am hilarious no you are undeniably hilarious and i think hilarious like get all you've got to get rid of is the idea that you have to be this perfect version of yourself because actually if you look around if you look around it's scraps galore and you don't need to be no you know what i agree i agree and i think what's worrying me is i'm moving beyond the i need to be a perfect person thing and i'm moving into if i'm learning how to not be a perfect person is a podcast the safest way to do it no no no it's the safest way to do it

is you hide in your fucking bedroom and you do a job that you hate and that's the safest way to do it but you're not here to live safe lives i've from my knowledge of you you don't give me the vibe of someone that wants to live a limited safe life where they don't have to confront any of their insecurities you give me the vibe of someone that very much wants to confront their insecurities head on and if one of the things is that you need to be perfect the whole time to be honest the perfect perfect place for you to do that is having to show up on an internet fucking thing and be there but also i wouldn't be opposed to taking a break because i don't think it's i don't think it's fair for you to have to do that

online well this is what i'm thinking this is why as well it's like i'm i feel like it feels a little bit weird because i can feel that i'm coming from a different place like i than i have before like i feel like at the moment i'm coming from a place of caring about myself I'm wanting I want to show up for the podcast and I always have that has always never gone like that's I've never been worried about that no but for the first time I also want to protect myself and and not even like hide away or shy away from it but just you know what does that look like like how can i be sustainable how can i turn up at least every monday and also give the content that i want to give on here i know this is like a non-issue give the content i want to give shut

the fuck up shut the fuck up just get on with it just do the fucking podcast and shut up but i think at the moment i'm just thinking the version of you you want to get how can i be going through my human life as a sensitive little soul that i am and also feel the weight of wanting to be there emotionally for other people and and do something well because i know i'm lucky to get the opportunity to get to fucking do this and piss about on a podcast like that's a joke of a thing to be able to get to do and i never once want to take it for granted and i just feel like i'm not good enough at it and that's embarrassing that's to me that's a sign that we we're basically it's hard as well because we're in different fucking time zones right now and we can't speak as much

as we need to yeah and we're obviously i think you're realizing god okay we need to speak quite a lot no but that is you need to get paid for this i think it's not true like the stuff that you're thinking that's not true like the fact that is like you're not good enough for it or you can't do all of that stuff that's not true if you feel like you need to take some time to fucking no fucking work out how you feel all that stuff yeah that's no more than enough i'll be out i will because i'll be i'll be bugging you as i do no like i just think you're not being fair to yourself at all by saying you're not good at it like that is just not accurate and i can i just think i'm quite yeah but i think there's a lot of people who rightly so i think be quite disappointed in wings output and i just want to make it clear i'm disappointed

who the fuck is disappointed in your output sorry what am i being silly now i think that's true yes no no that's silly that is silly you think people are disappointed in your output who's sorry do you have to hand in a fucking essay at the end of the week fuck off no oh i just want you to know that like i know we're lucky to have a podcast now and i fucking care about it and if you've ever fucking had a little giggle listening to this or um shed a tear that it's mutual and that i just yeah i don't know i just i think but i think that's is that not the crux of the whole thing yeah i mean when we've spoken at length about what we want to do and what this is to us i think the crux of it is that we want to create something that makes people feel good that we feel good in and that we're giving quite an authentic

version of ourselves where we can show up and be exactly who we are on that day and hopefully that makes people feel okay in themselves we want people to feel good and confident one of my main fucking things i want people to feel i want people to feel confident and i think that's one of the things and good and safe and secure and all of these things how in any way is you feeling that you're not good enough you're not not funny enough you're not amazing enough you are perfect you are perfect as you are the whole essence of this is that we can come as scraps because if we can't come as scraps i've got to go because i've

come as a scrap day in day out you're more than welcome to be a scrap you're you're the best scrap but i just scrappy dude it's it's just it's a it's a scary thing to do to be a scrap 100 100 but is that not the challenge yeah and it's fucking i'm finding it quite challenging actually it is yeah quite challenging actually who the fuck yeah oh it's sorry was that my phone do you see what i mean like i'm professional phone's going off in the middle of the thing anyway no i'm checking it wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap.

Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. In the early 1980s, gay men started to get sick from AIDS.

Years before ACT UP, before HIV was discovered, before the history you know, there were people on the front lines of the fight against AIDS. Joe Sonnabit. Michael Callen. Bobby Campbell. I'm Dane Stewart,

and in the new season of my podcast, Resurrection, I tell the stories of heroes of the early AIDS movement. Like the story of a cabaret singer and a sex worker who invented safe sex and saved millions and millions and millions of lives. Go check out Resurrection wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com um okay so as we can probably tell as we can infer as one can infer i'm struggling a bit i think with balancing protecting myself taking care of myself and then also making

sure that i can show up for the things that i want to show up for how do you find that balance because what we kind of have established i think over the course of the past few years and over the course of the conversation that we just had off the podcast and what i'm gonna reiterate now for everyone if you haven't been able to tell sephie is insanely good at being confident you're you're so good at being such a joke i know i know because in in so many ways like the most insecure person no but obviously like you're a human being you have your struggles whatever but i think in your core being you're so good at putting yourself first and knowing that bottom line the crux

is that you're gonna do what you want to do and if you if you want to do it you're gonna feel like you're good at it as well and when you feel like you need to do something you do it it's just it's just impressive and i want to know how you, how you're wrangling that. I don't think I am wrangling it. I really don't. Earlier, so for example, if I, if I critiqued, if I found some sort of criticism for you, if I was like, look, Sefi, fucking hell. This thing that you like, if I imagine I was like, you, this thing that you love that means

so much to you, it's a load of shit. Well, the example, the example you gave earlier, earlier you said what if i said to you that the film book smart wasn't a good film and that it's shit and it's not funny and it just doesn't doesn't really show a woman's voice in like the most comedic way and it's the perfect film that should have been made at the perfect time um if i said that to you what would you say and i said i would think i would lose some respect for you you said you said i would actually get quite disrespectful towards you and i think and i am joking yeah but also you're not like you are good at disregarding i think you're wrong that's the thing i would think you're wrong if someone said to you suffer your shit at this you would probably think they're wrong it depends it depends but like if someone said to me

oh god you can say the fucking things and I'll fucking believe them until the cows come home. Like, but certain things. What's something you know you're good at? Like what am I good at, for example? Anything. You're good at so much. I'm really, I'm too fragile,

I think, for the earth. Say I'm pretty confident in like making a fucking tea. Making a cup of tea. Not a big deal. Well, that's one of the things I think you do wrong. But I don't want to hear it.

But fucking pouring a glass of water. I'm not secure enough in anything that if I, putting on lip balm, if someone said to me, you're doing that weird, you're doing that wrong, I'll take it with me until my dying day. Which by the looks of it is going to be pretty fucking soon. I can't cope with this world. I'm just too fragile. Just quickly on your tea thing though.

I've always roasted you for the tea thing though um i've always i've always roasted you for the tea thing i will get a roast no offense wrong my eyes boom roasted i don't think you're roasting me because i actually disagree with you because you drink boiling water from a mug i'm like you no offense but that is one thing fair enough you've given me one there's a loophole there that's the one thing maybe that if you tried to well i'm about to compliment your tea i'm about to compliment your tea i have now for the last three weeks been making my tea i call it wings i'm gonna make this erin style how are you making yeah i'm leaving the i'm putting the tea bag in she likes weak drink

water it's so bizarre and then no but i know i'm doing it exactly the people here because no one wants a fucking weak tea apart from sephie she's a bit weak no it's heavy be honest with us get come on at least you can be authentic i don't think i have it weak the thing that bothers me is that is that you put the milk in what with theabag and the teabag gets saturated with milk. You squeeze the life out of the teabag. So this is what I've been doing because I've noticed that American teabags are weak shit. The tea doesn't come out properly. So I've been doing it Erin style as I'm calling it.

I literally say that in my head. I'm like, have this one Erin style. That's when you know straight up that's when you know you need to get some social interaction a taste of home i just think leave the tea bag in there give it a good squeeze like make it strong also i just want to make it clear every time i've made a drink for you i'll say how do you want this and she doesn't fucking she says however i don't care i don't care then she takes all these notes behind my back and then reveals them on my public podcast a shared space yeah and i thought i'll bring it up then no i've always i've always thought that was strange but i actually love it because the tea that you make is filled to the brim is strong what more could you i'm liking it and i'm kept in constant

supply which i like what more could you want to be honest nothing you don't want a heart you want a little tea cup or you want a little espresso of tea that's what my grandma makes me when i have a cup of tea it hurts it'll be like a mug and she'll make a shot of tea it is so unbearable well anyway oh bloody hell what my phone just went off so loud okay actually sorry can i just go straight in with the message that someone just sent i think i'm reading it as well it's quite genius actually so in answer of the question of like setting a boundary taking to like doing something to serve yourself versus doing something that is actually in the long time gonna fuck yourself over this person said usually when i'm isolating i'm avoiding something versus when i'm setting a

boundary like actively i'm addressing something and i think they've hit the nail on the head that's the crux isn't it like we can go now because that's perfect say no more goes without saying that is so good what you can feel when you're avoiding something and you can feel when you're actively addressing something do you know what i've been thinking quite a lot about avoidance over the over the past few years i think but like like i think it's kind of it something clicked like a few days ago but i think on this podcast throughout the whole time this podcast has been running really i think i've always felt so guilty for the amount of tv that i watch that's been like

a running i was thinking this the other day i was thinking about this and i think it's because since leaving uni i don't know i've always watched a lot of tv i just i just have watched loads of tv in the last few years and i don't and i think it's like oh god i'm so lazy blah blah blah like and i've always felt guilt for it but a few days ago i sort of thought i actually think i'm avoiding my life when i watch tv i don't think because i'm not watching it in a sometimes i am and i'm going oh my god i fucking love it blah blah but there's so many times where i have re-watched and re-watched and re-watched the office peep show new girl come on we've watched these same things over and over and over again yeah yeah we know you're avoiding something and the thing you're

avoiding is your life really right you don't need to watch the office seven times through if this is your third time listening to go to that saying the same episode on repeat you probably are you're cycling through a repertoire yeah get back to work like there's there's a certain level of it that's like yeah okay it's comfort like there's a comfort thing to it i think i can feel the difference in myself when i'm watching something and i feel comforted by it or when i'm watching the same episode of fucking peep show is what i'm watching at the moment best show fucking ever it's so funny yeah um but when you've watched that through i've probably watched every episode of that eight times in the last

three years like alone alone yeah that might be a sign that you're maybe not feeling comforted by but you might be just using it to just like bomb almost a bit of a dependent stress of existence yeah totally dependent totally dependent on basically zoning out of reality yeah and going into a different world i mean relatable content i also i think as well a couple of years ago and maybe at the start of this podcast as well we're so meta today by the way which i'm not hating no i'm not hating it we haven't got meta in a while i think no we haven't we've been avoiding think yeah um i think a few years ago there was especially and maybe i guess pandemic kind of changed it as well but i would say just before the pandemic

there started to be a bit more of a conversation at least i saw and i know we saw it about don't do things that don't feel good and like that sort of messaging and i think that's really important there's obviously a space for that but i also think that's a really nice way i know you don't want to hear this guys i know you don't i know they're like getting annoyed with us but i think sometimes that kind of idea of oh don't do things that don't feel good to you can kind of give you the excuse that you were looking for to like not sort out your direct debit for that thing and like not go and return your asos parcel is always the one that i use like i know there's a list of things that you need to do and seph and wing are always here for whenever you just need to take a minute and pull back and you're absolutely

deserving of giving yourself some active rest time active intentional time to rest but if you're not intentionally resting and you're not intentionally working what are you doing that's the difference what are you fucking doing you're just switching off and you're essentially committing suicide you're essentially just you're switching off your mind and you're just kind of going through the motions of life and avoiding the reality of your day-to-day and you're actually making it harder for you long term and i'm saying this because i care if you have things to do that are going to make you feel better in the long term try and do one of the easier like shorter say you've got like a list of 10 things that you need to do some of them okay quite big tasks but a few of them might be

a little bit more simple for example if i need to take my asos parcel back if that's a smaller yeah it does feel big but if i can turn it into a nicer thing of you know what i'm kind of in the mood to get out anyway i'll get a nice coffee on the way and i'll turn it into a nice thing maybe i'll meet a friend after like i'll be you know i'll turn it into i'll kind of attach it i'll stack it onto some other things that yeah suddenly it sounds quite good and then once i've done that all of a sudden everything else just feels a little bit easier because i don't feel like a worthless piece of shit anymore but breaking the cycle of avoidance is kind of impossible

especially when you've got any sort of mental health issue which surprise surprise if anyone needs any spare i think avoidance is one of the main um oh my god there was like a fucking thing that was like the i remember when procrastination was like the word of the internet yeah procrastination oh my god i'm just procrastinating blah blah blah it's like everyone just opened their dictionaries and found that word and were like perfect procrastination amazing um and i remember then there was a video that was like procrastination isn't real and like laziness isn't real you're only doing this because you're avoiding something like you can't laziness is not real and just to be honest i agree like i actually agree with that

because i think at me i think i think i've identified as lazy for quite a long period recent like kind of in recent years and i was actually thinking about it the other day like when did i start thinking of myself as like a lazy person and i was like i didn't think this at school i was fucking on it at school i was busy busy busy busy girl like always like kept up with my revision kept up with all of the stuff oh god when did i start identifying as someone that's like put stuff off and is like lazy and that can just like fucking zone out all fucking day and trust me i fucking can and i fucking do tell me twice yeah literally if there's anything we can do is zone out all day and then i was thinking like i think it's a new thing and i think it's because i'm not using tv and like media as the thing that you love it for and that you've always loved it for

that is like a beautiful literally one of the best things in life a way to experience yeah a deeper reality it's incredible i am obsessed with it yeah you're not using it as that anymore you're literally using it as like you've got something to you've got your dinner now and it's time to watch something you've got you've got like 15 minutes to kill time to watch something like you you want to go on your phone a bit i'll just put something on like that is not representative of how i feel so deeply about like fiction essentially essentially why are you using it as if it's not as like a numbing agent you're basically using love itself as an anesthetic fuck off can i say something potentially quite triggering yeah go on i'm scared though it's not it's not towards you it's towards us okay go on

and i think i think there's a truth in it. And I wonder if you have considered it recently. Just when you were saying about you haven't always felt like you're lazy, blah, blah, blah. There was a time just after we'd finished uni where your work ethic was called into question by people close to you in your life because you're trying to do something unconventional painful work yeah in a really horrific way and i think just the absence of that from this conversation yeah is it's just it's quite stark i think because i think and you can get it from your parents you can get it from anyone anyone kind of telling you that you're not living

in the right way and almost they're disappointed in the way that you're living yeah it i'm gonna say it sticks but i was gonna change i was gonna say it sucks but it does suck but it does it gets in deep yeah it stinks it stinks it goes in deep and i think it's no surprise that now you feel like a lazy piece of shit because that's really interesting actually because the fact it's been for the last three years like i definitely watched tv at uni that now you feel like a lazy piece of shit because that's really interesting actually because the fact it's been for the last three years like i definitely watched tv at uni do you know what i mean i saw you with my own eyes day in day out do you know what i mean and i think you know you're doing something like i say like you have the luxury of having a podcast fucking

joke like piss taker yeah do you know what i mean like yes like yeah but i don't know i think sometimes and it kind of goes back to what we were saying at the beginning we have insanely high standards for ourselves i mean i personally would never put these standards on anyone else i think we have a tendency in this circle i'm speaking for all of us to be really hard on ourselves. And sometimes it feels really good to put things off and avoid things and distance and detach and close off and kind of put yourself into this little like bubble, kind of like a little coma. Kind of like a sleep-like state. It's just basically, let me postpone these issues for half an hour, just half an hour. And I do think it's basically what it is cycle and not to be really dark and deep but i think in my in my lowest worst times as well i i sometimes um not

even like i don't know i'm not even saying this to be super deep but even in a suicidal way i think a pathway to that um kind of area that kind of those kind of behaviors that kind of like sticky dangerous place in life i think a pathway to that can be that kind of feeling of being like i'm not gonna die but i wish i could just sleep forever and just being so overwhelmed with life that you just want to turn everything off and just sleep forever yeah i do feel like it is a warning sign that you're there are some things that need to be attended to and you should get help for that I think you can just reach like speak to people in your life and share that with them just fucking go to Seth in wing you might not get a reply but if you go to

Seth if you just want to get it out go to Seth in wing dms and say I'm so overwhelmed at the moment and you'll be in there with a pit of probably like 60 other girls because we're all so overwhelmed at the moment but i just think if you're feeling that really horrible like discomfort in your own life of like not knowing how to move forward and feeling like you don't have it in you to move forward i think know that everyone feels like that a lot and that you can move forward and just get out of your head go for a walk if you can speak to a friend if you can and just do something that gets you out of that really like self-hating cycle the navel gazing cycle do you see what i mean like not in a position to be giving advice by the way

like we just heard the breakdown you are having 20 minutes ago you're literally the most like yeah that is that is exactly what i would want like that's just perfect thank you you're literally the most like yeah that is that is exactly what i would want like that's just perfect thank you you're absolutely perfect um you're perfect nutter perfect nutter thing is i don't know if he actually does say that i think he says she she might be mad but she's perfect for me or something like that but i don't know but i always think he says she's a perfect nutter i'm just reading through some messages. This is nice. And I think this kind of ties up what we've been saying. So the difference basically between setting boundaries and doing something healthy for yourself

versus kind of being self-destructive. Why do you look like you're about to burst out laughing? What's so funny over there? Laughing? You're so mischievous. No, I'm just listening. You have such a mischievous little face. Look at you.

Try. Yeah, you're honestly cute as a button like butter wouldn't melt this girl that's so funny because i'm like the most kind of evil person but just you're a mischievous little you're a little curious cat okay this person said i love it aren't you though You're just a playful little cat. Okay. I see it. I see it for you. This person said basically that it's dependent on how drained they feel.

One feels good after and the other one feels shit. And I think that's true. It's like if you've been intentionally kind of giving yourself time to do all the things that you want to do to take care of yourself. Is that it? What are you laughing at? I can't concentrate you're laughing i'm literally not laughing now i am i don't know maybe i'm just in a good mood today okay good i'm not though no i don't know maybe i am but this is kind of making me in a good mood maybe. Oh good, good. I didn't feel in a good mood earlier but now I guess I do. Oh good, we've turned it right around as we do.

There are also like a load of squirrels outside of the window. Aww. Like probably about seven squirrels because I have to feed all these birds and the squirrels obviously eat food as well. It's one of my things I'm having to do. And yeah, the squirrels were having a little fight then. Oh wow. I wasn't laughing

at that i was just looking concerned yeah nice to know that you haven't been paying attention to me no i was just looking at that drained or not drained yeah i think that's kind of um a good signifier when you're like lost in that cycle of watching the office for 16 hours yeah do you feel good after do you feel restored do you feel like oh god right i really needed that now i feel refreshed yeah or do you feel like oh god i've made that a bit worse that wasn't that maybe wasn't the right decision yeah yeah like oh i think that's such a good i always view it as like if what you're claiming that these shows do for you like what i feel like i'm claiming is that for example this sort of

brand of tv shows and i'm putting like my fucking new girls my fucking everything in there like for you it might be friends like all of these things that we would put as like comfort tv things you've seen a million times but you put it on if you're claiming that it is comforting to you is the emotion that you're feeling then is it comfort do you come away from that being like god i just felt really comforted from that because often i actually don't think i do feel comforted from it like i just feel numbed it's like is it comfort you know these inside out or are you silenced is it comfort yeah literally is it comfortable is it or is it just comfortable yeah because i think there is quite a dangerous difference definitely but

then i also don't ever want to stop someone from like i i also think like it's human there's also a huge um sort of discourse i guess in like a neurotypical neurodivergent that world about how like comfort shows are like a huge fucking thing and they undeniably are they undeniably fucking are every single person i know that is autistic is absolutely like has an attachment to specific things like specific shows and stuff that they can watch fucking day in day out that should not be a shameful thing and then i wonder how much of my attachment to these shows falls into that category and how much it falls into just like i just i'm overwhelmed i just need to numb out let's get michael scott in my fucking face like i don't know how much of it like for example as soon as i got here there were all these dvds

here first one i found was the uk office watch that literally cover to cover of the dvd i watched season one season two and the two christmas specials i watched both all of it very festive and then i was like i was really analyzing it and then i went straight to the u.s office and i watched season one the and i was analyzing it i was like going through like you can't call that lazy but you're putting this home but like there's a part of me that is like really curious about like the difference between why they thought a us version would work why it did work the differences between david bryant and michael scott i'm so fascinated by it but let's be real

you've done that exact process five times over like you don't need to compare these anymore needs to do that once and i probably did that eight years ago for the first time like you don't need to be doing that on a monthly basis really it's not needed no no it's like write your dissertation on it and leave but like to be honest what's the youtube analysis video of it that someone made 15 years ago call it a day yeah you've done your bit you don't need to be doing yeah i think that the crux from us is always as i think we're here we can be ourselves to ourselves obviously but i also think we are making an effort to be kind to ourselves and maybe that's kind of one of the um threads throughout all of these episodes is that we are slowly but surely really trying believe it or not to not be assholes to ourselves and

in turn we just want to make you slightly more inclined to be kind to yourself as well and i think that i mean it doesn't go without saying which is why we're talking about it but the crux is if sitting around and pulling back giving yourself the time is what's gonna help you today do it goes without saying you're always that is all everything you do is valid in our eyes because you could murder someone and i'd be like look they probably had a good reason all right no get off her back i disagree like profoundly but i just think whatever you feel that you need to do in that moment be selfish and fucking do it and own it and you know what today tomorrow's a new day and you can move on from it but don't

murder anyone yeah maybe don't murder him but if you do like do whatever you need to do tomorrow's a new day just move on from it we all make mistakes okay nobody's perfect just move on stop me on the past you only murdered someone yesterday that's yesterday's news i think that's perfect because also i feel like that's one of the things that we've been talking a lot about recently is this idea of like act very actually being kind to ourselves i feel every time i speak to you recently it's all i'm going on about like how do you feel and you have said a few times a few times and i quite love this you've been like i feel bad but i'm being

kind to myself through it and i think that is that is a completely different experience that no it's it's complete i don't know if like you know your brain like fully develops or something roughly past the age of 25 i don't know if my brain is just like kind of just suddenly started working the last bit click yeah honestly like we just flicked the final switch or something and everything was like just not that deep all of a sudden but i don't know what it is i just suddenly feel much more comfortable in myself i think we yeah but i think we do think everything's way too fucking deep and actually like i think that much is obvious yeah that much goes without saying so if you can just be kind to yourself today and like not in a

stupid just be kind to yourself love yourself but like if you also wouldn't mind being kind to us that would be quite nice oh my goodness i wouldn't mind that if you wouldn't be if you wouldn't mind being kind to us that would be great that would be the cherry on top to be honest i do love this yeah it's a good episode like also i i was just thinking at the beginning i want to make it really clear that i i don't ever want you to feel forced to do it like i don't want because i feel like i was being a bit like it's a perfect place for you to fucking deal with it it's like never never in in a fun way it is but like if it's genuine like you never have to if it's time to step back thank you i appreciate it and same you know it goes without

saying we say it all the time but just yeah for the same publicity reasons but i just know that behind the scenes we're saying this all the time i'm not being held here against my will yeah but this is so nice like i've really enjoyed this i've been grinning it's flipped my mood around i've been grinning around good and now you've got a nice day ahead yes fucking not even midday yet that's crazy i don't know what i'm gonna do i think i'm gonna finish my book today so we speak you're gonna watch some tv don't lie 100 i'm gonna watch some tv as you should as you should but not in a numbing way not in a numbing way not in an unintentional way not in like a not in a torturous way not in a punishment not in a numbing way, not in an unintentional way, not in like a, not in a torturous way, not in a punishing way. And not in a putting off your own life,

like I can't look at my life, I'll look at Michael's life. It's like, you're not Jess from New Girl, you're Sefi from Sefi and Wing and you need to look at your life. Yeah, yeah. You're not with Nick Miller, I hate to break it to you. Oh, I mean, that's the sad news.

Oh, it's so sad. Let's go. Hopefully you'll hear from us soon. I'm really grateful to have this space if you don't hear from us assume the worst Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy

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