Goes Without Saying - boys will be boys: sexism & rape culture, just girly things

Episode Date: August 10, 2020

disney movies walked so br*ck tu*ner could run. join us in this heated episode of Goes Without Saying as we (sephy & wing) break down rape culture, and how ALL men (yes, all men) benefit from it. from 'boys will be boys' comments to everyday sexism, we go IN on the patriarchy once again with a few twilight references. speak your mind on our instagram! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Hello guys, welcome back to High Priestess. I am Erin, I'm joined with the lovely... Persephone, I didn't know I was supposed to be saying, yeah, Persephone. And you are here as well to listen to us engage in a beautiful conversation about the worst thing ever rape culture we were on the

stories a couple of days ago you all saw you all sent in your amazing insights and responses and we discussed them in this episode one thing we wanted to touch on at the beginning of the episode was kind of the scale and pyramid of rape culture because it just kind of epitomizes how pervasive it is into every little realm of society that you never really thought about because you might be thinking oh i don't perpetuate rape culture we're not saying you're a rapist we're saying that every single one of us perpetuates rape culture because it is literally the structure in which our lives have been formed it starts at the bottom with things like sexist attitudes stalking rape jokes unwanted non-sex non-consensual and non-sexual touch moving into victim blaming and shaming which i know for a fact all of us have done at some point in our lives i mean maybe i don't know for a fact but i know

pretty much for a fact and moves into stealthing molestation drugging and then rape right at the top of the pyramid even if you don't know a rapist you know people that have made boys will be boys comments said oh i shouldn't you shouldn't wear that outfit you shouldn't leave the house at that time at night she was asking for it all of these fit into rape culture it's not this person is a rapist and therefore there is a culture of rape there is just a culture that is very forgiving to rapists and very blaming of victims in the way that we are all in some way complicit because we all function within this realm and society we are all in so many ways complicit in white supremacy we are all in so many ways complicit in capitalism yeah we are all in so many ways complicit in capitalism yeah we are

all in so many ways complicit therefore in rape culture which is defined in the dictionary as a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse let's talk about it so the first point when i was thinking about rape culture is actually a point from my friend jack who seems to feature all the fucking time in this in every episode he's a bruised ass he comes up with some good points so i was saying that the episode is on rape culture it's jack quoting florence given which is the crossover no one asked for we never knew we needed yeah so he was saying when he was understanding rape culture because he's never really under i think a lot of guys kind of think oh yeah that's not really real it's like we're not rapists and hashtag not all men like it doesn't apply to me yeah but florence given said

something which made it open his eyes i guess and it was that all men benefit from rape culture because it allows mediocre behavior from all men they get to be the quote-unquote good guy yes and they get rewarded for not being creepy and it reminds me of do you remember back in the day and one of the i think it was like the dating episodes and it was i was talking about my friend dating and she was like oh my god he's so great he hasn't said anything creepy and it's like why are we rewarding this fucking mediocre guy because he hasn't done anything um rapey like he hasn't done anything yet horrible yeah it's like no he's not a good guy he's average that should be the bare minimum completely it reminds me of on the we had a post about rape that i would say went viral it did and big time as much as i tried

to stop it going yeah shut this thing down it was. Yeah, shut this thing down. It was, it was crazy. Yeah. But I remember we got quite a few men commenting being like, this is so terrible. Like, I'm so sorry that women are going through this. I will never be this man or whatever. And I felt myself after kind of a day of being told that you're lying and that it's not real and that you should get raped anyway, etc, etc.

I'm going to rape you, comment. Thank you. Yeah, exactly. And you feel it in you'd be like, oh, amazing. Thank you so much for understanding. And then it's like, fuck you. I'm not reward. Well, not fuck you, but it's fuck me. Like here I go again, being tempted to reward someone for just being decent. And that really should be the bare minimum. The is so low yeah subterranean bar like it's literally below the fucking earth you didn't rape me yeah thank you how bizarre because it doesn't even have to come down to like understanding why rape is bad because i saw there's an amazing woman she's actually a poet we were talking about poetry before but she's also an influencer her name's

salma el-wadhani she's cool. She's a radio host as well. She's really cool. Just check her out. And she did a story saying, what mediocre behavior did you reward in a man? Have you rewarded him from the men in your life? And she was saying about how she was once making a cup of tea for a guy

and he took the milk and went and put it in the fridge. And she thought, oh my God, what a great guy. Cause it's like, actually, no, I was making you a cup of tea and you put the milk in the fridge. That nothing and you did the bare mins but we do it all the time oh my god he's so nice he did this really average thing he said i look nice oh my god he must be so good he opened a fucking door i mean i hope people don't still fucking reward that shit i think if you say he was such a gentleman and you use that word you're complicit

in rape culture well because also if you look at all of the gentlemen that we've ever seen in the history of like pop culture they're all kind of bitching about their wives with each other they stay out all night drinking they haven't seen their children in weeks yeah a gentleman's club exactly what does the word gentleman actually mean it's not so fucking gentle it means they get what they want by manipulating you i always think that's funny i hadn't heard anyone say like oh my god he was such a gentleman for so long and there was someone that i knew that came back from a date and said oh my god he was such a gentleman oh and i remember thinking god i've

gone back in time i'm in the 1920s. Like he's a gent. Ladies and gents. A gent. It was like hideous. What a gent. Like I didn't know people still wanted that. I think though it comes down to that real nice guy thing. And it's kind of the like sub-breed of incel culture,

which is like nobody wants a nice guy. Like I'm just such a nice guy and I just get friend zoned. And I've been so nice to you this whole time why don't you want to fuck me yet because it's not a reward to be not like you don't get rewards for being nice then you're not being nice literally if you're only respecting me so you're being manipulative literally if you're only faking respect for me out of your desire to have sex with me there really has been no respect there at all you want to fuck me you're lucky i'm your friend literally let alone fuck off so you're not the nice guy i think you well we know you should be so wary of anyone that is telling you time and time again

i'm the nice guy i'm the nice guy nobody is fucking surface nice no one is deeply nice in their life so fuck off you lying cunt you're trying to fuck me literally that and also it's like wait so being my friend wasn't good enough for you you needed to have sex with me as a reward at the end as soon as you know you can't have sex with me my friendship is unwanted you literally see me as a walking vagina nulled void oh like now i know i'm not gonna have sex with you i'll stop being the nice girl go but i'll just be a guy literally it's like oh so that was useless i feel like still so many especially young women especially in particular girls really fall victim to you know right i'll set the scene you're in year nine you've heard whispers of this guy who fancies you oh my god the excitement's building who is he

because he said x y and z yeah and as you start texting great you like kind of saw him at the park from a distance and like he like smiled at you and everyone was like running back and forth at a distance never said a word to each other you start speaking on msn showing my age he bbms you he bbms you he says what's your bbm pin and two days after you start speaking he says things like i've never felt this way about anybody before you are so special to me you are so different than any other girl oh i love you so so much i can't even understand how much i like you like i can't even put it into words how much i want this to work etc etc he has that like saved in his draft from the girl he sent that to last week literally copy and paste if someone has met you has known you for kind of 48 hours and now wants to tell

you that they're so so obsessed with you please tell me why you think they're actually obsessed with you no no they're trying to get something from you but people genuinely believe every word well thing is i understand how you would think that in year nine yeah sure year nine some guy says i'm obsessed with you yeah but the problem is people still believe it now exactly that's the thing now well we can't be 23 years old it's kind of a tried and tested method yeah we can't be 23 years old some guy says kind of a tried and tested method. Yeah, we can't be 23 years old. Some guy says, I've never felt like this before. And it's like, wow, wow, wow, wow. I remember, oh, this isn't a guy. So it doesn't really work. But it was with a girl on a date. And she was saying, like, I very much knew where I stood. She was like, I'm really attracted to you. All of this stuff. I was like, wow, oh my god, everything is so clear. I know exactly where I stand. But it's

like, actually, and then i remember my friend saying because i was like oh my god i think it's just so different with girls like everything you just know where you stand and then my friend was saying imagine if a guy was saying to you i'm so attracted to you you're so fit you're so funny blah blah blah all true facts like that's confirmed yeah goes without saying obviously goes without saying but some guy is saying that to you alarm bells should be ringing but for some reason with a girl i was like everything is so authentic clear communication but it's like actually no no alarm bell should be ringing with someone saying you're just like no one i've seen before like you're so this it's like no actually that's

bollocks yeah you're lying you're lying to my fucking face you think i'm stupid and also what a fool you are to think that you're unique that's the problem it's like you've had one conversation about kind of a friend of a friend and now he's telling you that he's never felt this way about anyone before and you believed it imbecile what's wrong with us what is wrong well what is wrong with us is that we've been i was also fucking thinking this the other day like i mean i think it all the time but like the blueprint of romance is so fucking sick like it's so fucking disgusting and let's get into it it was coming to me like in the night these whole thoughts because i've watched night terrors it was coming at me but it essentially was because

i watched twilight we all know the love story in twilight is sick like it's actually and not like it's sick man it's sick it's twisted funny you should say this because i was haunted by the terrors of twilight the other day i didn't watch it but i just couldn't shake something something wasn't saying right i let me see if you say it well the fact it's like literally he's an incel okay go on i mean there are so many bits like for example you know when she's like tossing and turning at night bella swan she's tossing and turning she sits up and she sees edward and then she looks down to turn her light on she looks back he's gone and you kind of think oh my god she's dreaming about him then when you obviously throughout the film it's like she realizes he's a vampire he doesn't sleep it's like no he was in your room watching you he's stalking

you and also like no sex before marriage kind of the constant possession of like oh my god these guys were following you their thoughts like i i've got to save you you don't know what was going on in their head it's like no you're a fucking psychopath you're so controlling you're a fucking freak you're gonna murder me literally literally you're going to eat me like you want to the whole plot is that you're going to you're going to eat me alive you're gonna you want to suck my blood you might have sex with me but you might murder me like that's the whole plot is that you're going to you're going to eat me alive you're gonna you're gonna suck my blood you might have sex with me but you might murder me like that's the whole plot the thing about twilight that haunted me and actually links perfectly with a listener's message which i'm actually going to read aloud because we asked you guys on the polls on the

stories for your thoughts on rape culture you came through as you wouldn't expect anything less goes without saying and i loved this one in particular i'm not gonna say the name because we never do right no let's keep it anonymous i i think i would want it anonymous i know it's like we're out here speaking with our full chest well but they're not so it's fine yeah i'm not gonna give the full i would never do the full username that's bad oh my god that was horrific you're outed and exposed but maybe we could do the first name but i'm not going to let us know what you would rather because i would rather anonymity you would too sephia yeah if i'm writing in saying oh my god yeah like my boyfriend fucked my best friend yeah they don't know i know yeah and i'm gonna joke me out so katie said that she's gonna fucking expose her

boyfriend how funny because this person sorry this person's called kate oh that's crazy right sorry now that i've announced it but their name is kate anyway so kate said about rape culture it's intertwined with peter phillip culture the worst cat calling happened when i was 12 to 14 and what made me think about twilight was how you have uh how old is he like what 18 year old werewolf in love with a newborn baby a bit bizarre he imprinted it's not like normal love he can't control it would it be my first writing choice that's the whole bit where it's like you nicknamed my daughter after the lugness monster so yeah i mean if you're not familiar with twilight that's amazing um maybe keep it that way but we'll tell you for context there's a werewolf and a vampire and uh god a mortal human

being with zero brain cells um and obviously the mortal human is the female exactly yeah and it's a bit of a love triangle situation uh vampire and human have baby don't ask questions it happens don't ask because it's a process she nearly died don't ask you don't want to know they didn't know it was possible they thought it was an immortal child baby is born werewolf man imprints quote unquote which essentially means he's in love with her he has to protect her his whole life and he's just obsessed with her he's going to stalk her the same way that the vampire stalked Bella at the beginning anyway then take that further the whole conversation what you just touched on but it's not love he imprinted how people say that yeah that I think is even more

dangerous because it encourages yes totally the very victims themselves if you want to say that the young girls are the victims of the rape culture become the greatest defenders of they become like the military against anyone who tries to speak out on how wrong it is and the power imbalance and the injustice because it's been marked as love like renez may her name is the best little baby just pick one name why did you have to go for two fucking names renez may you're one i remember thinking that was so stunning as well like oh my god but it's because that predatory behavior throughout the whole thing through with edward at bella and jacob at renez may and to be honest jac honest Jacob at Bella as well is marked as romance we grew up thinking the ultimate sign of romance is someone acting like a fucking predator we dreamt about it

we all went to bed and fantasized oh my god Edward Cullen watching me while I sleep Edward Cullen refusing to fucking kiss I have sex with me before marriage because he's gonna eat my body oh my god it's so dreamy is that what you used to think well i was team i was hard team edward i was actually kind of team jasper if anyone knows jasper you were yeah and it shocks me every time i've heard it and i've heard it more than any normal person would like to hear that someone is team jasper and kind of alice like i was kind of team everyone involved but did you think like wow like i want i want edward to come in my room tonight kind of 3 a.m when i'm sleeping yes definitely yeah i thought um i want edward to be obsessed with me it almost is presented as if there's like this otherworldly bond between edward and jake no through edward

through edward and jacob that's my dream scenario well really why does edward like bella so much because her stench is so strong because her blood stinks well yeah one because the strenches the stench is so strong she utterly reeks and two because he can hear everyone else's thoughts but not hers oh of course but i saw a tiktok the other day that was like the reason edward couldn't hear bella's thoughts because she didn't have any there's nothing about bella she just like does weird faces throughout the whole thing it's such a shame but that's again teaching women have no personality be nothing and you will get an essentially a werewolf and a vampire

fighting over you the ultimate the ultimate love iconic duo and also with jacob this uncontrollable love like it's kind of he couldn't help it it was out of his control it just happened like he just imprinted on this baby and now he's like forever destined for her it's like no no that's a child not even a child a baby it just came out the womb two hours ago literally i mean also maybe we should say renez may correct me if i'm wrong she ages at the speed of light yes yeah within about a year she's like jacob's age and they're kissing on a beach yeah but she's a one-year-old baby she's like goo goo gaga literally yeah it's bizarre but also not only is it about breeding kind of possession and like kind of power and balance with relationships and kind of um giving men the ultimate superiority but it's also about how we completely make it almost a biblical imagery of a young woman and a woman's worth is only in her youth and as soon as you age out of

that totally or learn to speak up out of that you are not valuable anymore you're not even palatable like you're oh there's something about her she's just too much like there's just something about her can't put my finger on it so you know you don't like her because she has a personality and it's because you're not 12 she doesn't look like a 12 year old with no personality thinking oh my god yeah i want edward cullen to stalk me well i think rape culture is so embedded in our society that we don't even see it so i was gonna say i think it's coming as in what's it called like the the like jesus coming like what is that called the the second coming yeah like the second coming i think twilight as much as we roast not just you and i everyone roasts twilight all the time and also watches it

all the time i love it indulges in it yeah it's kind of the room I roast it I watch it I roast it I fantasize about it I roast it I watch it remember we watched it in um at uni and we were dying like crying with laughter climb on spider monkey or whatever he says it's like yeah hold on tight spider monkey such a joke but I think there's a second coming for Twilight in the sense that I think it can only go on for so much longer that people are gonna keep joking about you've named my daughter after the Larkness mother. I think it's gonna be like, hang on,

looking back actually, that was a grown man and a newborn baby. And that's bizarre. So I think that is so deeply rooted in society that we don't see it in the fact that it's in all of our movies. But something I was gonna say, and it kind of links to what Kate, I can't believe you said that it was katie and

her name is actually kate yeah that's so weird such a rare name no one i've ever met before with the name um that's when you know he's a fuck boy is when he's saying to you you're just so special everything about you is so rare i've never even heard your name before your name is literally kate yeah yeah we can see through the lines yeah and how kate said the worst cat calling happened when they were 12 to 14 isn't that true yeah and i was thinking specifically about how institutions in society value essentially infants so i was thinking a specific example i was scouted when i was about 14 15 maybe it was before I got with Jack so I was young been with Jack since I was a child um by the most major agency which actually is infamous

for being so problematic and I know someone actually who was with that agency for a long time what agency modeling agency yeah oh my god it's funny because well let me just explain. How can I be essentially a child and it's acceptable for, in the way that it was unacceptable now we know, for Ghislaine Maxwell to be sourcing young women, why is it acceptable for a woman to be kind of surveying the children of London and trying to pick them up and groom them institutionalize them groom them and keep their bodies looking how they are when they're 15 and essentially offer them this like glamorous sort of promise of you will be a model yeah and thank god I didn't go like come to this building are you winding me up yeah it's like well and then what when I um grow some boobs you're gonna say right we're gonna nip that in. Well, that's the thing. Because I very much remember her noticing what was going on. And it's like, where are you going to put me in fucking like Sports Illustrated?

Like my boobs are only going to work for a kind of... Anyway, I know three different girls. This is three different case studies of girls that were all scouted at One Direction concerts. That's grooming. That's grooming. That's grooming. That's, is that not a paedophile going to a park? It's where you know children will be. Do you see what I mean? How is this not a problem? That is a paedophile sitting in a fucking on a park bench because you know five-year-olds are going to be there. That is someone going to a One Direction thing because you know there are going to be 15-year-old girls there. Exactly. to a one direction thing because you know there are gonna be 15 year old girls there exactly fuck off that's fucking pedophile culture that's disgusting do you see what i mean and yet it's so

it's not even like so um embedded so deep within our society that we forget about it it's like upheld within society is the most glamorous and like esteemed desirable thing to do industries yeah well it's validating it's if you think about models it's well that's who you should aspire to look like then you get to go out with you kind of get to get raped by leonardo dicaprio sorry i was just about to say yeah then you get raped by leonardo dicaprio amazing and they all say sign me up and thank god i didn't i mean it wouldn't have lasted long but i and i i mean i would like to say yeah i didn't because it's out of like but you probably got a huge boost from that it's very validating well i actually think it's i think it's actually the opposite in the sense i probably said no

because i was just too insecure and it was just a bizarre time in my life anyway it's kind of head down don't look at me yeah very much and it was like i'd kind of just come back off holiday and it was like i was just i was on my own you see a woman coming up to you and you think you are like you're gonna save me like there must be i've got something stuck to my shoe or something my periods leaked literally or are you lost and i didn't tell any of my friends because you think it is kind of i mean it's not very likable is it it's not's not very relatable. Well, it's that thing of, oh, well, Erin was going on about how she got scouted for a model. It's kind of the posh girl pretending

that she didn't go to a private school. Oh, don't even get me started. Hell no. But do you see why? But then that further silences, I think it's really bizarre. How can this be one of the biggest industries in the world? And that is how it functions by

snatching girls essentially cradle snatching and then trying to force them to stay um with their arms paper thin it's not possible you need to fit a uterus in there it's not possible not in your arm but it's so true though oh you need to eat dinner you're gonna like you literally need to eat your dinner like your mom's cooked fucking lasagna and you've got to eat that i i also just think no matter what you do as a woman your body and your look is up for debate yeah even if people are being nice quote unquote nice to you it's still not right i think because it unnerves you and it's it's a subject on the table though that's what's so disgusting it's no matter what you look, if you're a woman in this society, the way that you look is open for debate. And it's about children. Because I remember being young, young, young, like a child, like in primary school. And I remember my mum saying to me that

like someone like kind of a family friend had said to my mum, like, oh, aren't you just so jealous of like her body or whatever? Like she's just got like the most perfect body about her child first of all which is bizarre so toxic and second of all a child like no i'm not jealous because that's my child my daughter and i'm not oh it's just even when it's a kid you're also breeding comparison amongst women acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay.

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The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com. I also think I maybe have an, I don't know, like a different, not a different view, but a different experience with that because my childhood body was celebrated because I developed very early. Like I kind of stepped into my like sexuality quite early. But same a different experience with that because my childhood body was celebrated because I developed very early like I kind of stepped into my like sexuality quite early but same though that was

kind of the problem you kind of you're the first kid in year five with boobs yeah that's bad I was kind of in year five six with full boobs little waist kind of that body literally your hips are there yeah I kind of had essentially the same body as I do now but don't you think that made it worse I remember there being things like me and my family go camping and things like that we go like kind of surfing and when I say surfing I mean bodyboarding um and it was like we'd be wearing like wetsuits and I remember being about probably like 10 years old and this man walking past me and I didn't notice anything but I heard this later on that this guy had checked me out looked at my notice anything but I heard this later on that this

guy had checked me out looked at my body and my mum had gone she's 10 she's 10 years old but I obviously looked a lot older because I looked sexual from an early early age but my brain was a little 10 year old thinking I want to watch Tracy Beaker like I want to know what fucking Duke's cooking on Tracy Beaker that's the Well, also, you're a little 10 year old thinking, ha, this is amazing. I look 15 or you're you're kind of 15 getting into bars because you look 21. But I definitely think I was uncomfortable with it. Like kind of everyone's getting like I'm sneaking my little sanitary towel box to the toilets. Like I'm very uncomfortable with my sexuality at that age. Because why would you like sex is terrifying. I'm watching Suite Life of

Zack and Cody. Yeah. Last thing on my agenda is how men think my boobs looked i thought i was really cool though i i personally i enjoyed it for myself but i i think i've also got a weird perception in that i hated my body being sexualized in the sense that i was the first one to get boobs and i still now have a funny thing about my boobs because i know that my mom always hated that her boobs were such a thing and so i always I mean I hate the word tits for example because I know that my mum hated the word tits I mean that is bleak yeah and so when you're a child and you're a tiny little thing with boobs it's like oh it's it's not nice someone else sent a really nice well it wasn't really nice it's actually really horrible but it kind of made my heart warm for them they said I can't read it

word for word I've lost it. But they said that they like teach young girls mostly ballet. And when in like, kind of, I guess a building that's used for multiple things. And when the young girls go to the kitchen, she tells them all to like cover up with like a hoodie or whatever. And she feels bad because why should they cover up their bodies because of other men not trusting men? But this is how the cycle continues. And it's just the reality. God, I'm like about to cry. It's absolutely sickening. Like it's rank. It's just the reality that men, yeah, and adults groom children. And then you end up telling your children that, you know,

the girls in your life, oh, cover up, cover up. That you hate the word tits. This is like, so my friend who will be listening, hey, Sophie, she sent me a voice note hey sophie and it was she was saying that she was she was like this just reminded me of your cat calling episode i'm walking down the road and i'm wearing like a short denim skirt like it's i don't think she said denim a short skirt i've added the fabric the fabric yeah a short skirt i just know she has a denim skirt a short skirt and someone shouted out the window like something and now she was thinking she was walking she's thinking oh god my skirt is too short and it's like that's fucking horrific that some fucking guy horrific when they're in a car because

they just get to drive away and you don't get to you know say a great comeback yeah but it's like now what i'm walking down the street thinking oh yeah i should have adapted what i'm wearing to fit in with walking along the side of the road in the middle of the day in the hot hot weather no way remember when we were in brighton and we went to a horrific club to watch our friend play there perform there and someone when the smoke there was like a horrific smoke machine now i actually despise smoke machines i love those smoke machines because i feel like i get so like lost in the smoke i'm like i don't know where i am i think that's great but this was horrific unfortunately what happened was someone had this guy i'm assuming a man had timed it so perfectly

that as soon as the smoke machine goes on and you can't see a thing you can't see your hand in front of your face yeah no you literally can't see two feet in front of you and they do it kind of once every half an hour they just blast the room with smoke and it goes within like 10 seconds yeah but at this point on that night they were doing it kind of every 30 seconds or something because it was quite a lot remember well i i remember the smoke yeah i remember this incident yeah and this guy had timed it must have been going to like like the drop of the song or something like that he had timed it so perfectly that as soon as the smoke was everywhere and no one could see a thing he put his hand up my skirt onto my bare skin grabbed my bum and then as soon as the smoke was gone and i looked around and it's like no one was there or like everyone was there

but you don't know who's who and and i was so pissed off violated yeah violated and then i remember i can't remember who it was but one of my friends said to me we were going out again i think to the same place like the night after or two nights after or something she and she was like i actually genuinely can't remember who it was was like maybe don't wear maybe you shouldn't wear a skirt this time if we're going there oh my god yeah i sort of remember this i don't know who it could have been me like i don't think it was you in my memory well there was definitely a thing of like that was not a situation that we'd want to repeat like because it's horrific like well it's kind of don't go for a walk at night yeah it's just like here we are again doing things for our own safety but i think when it comes to your own clothing it's particularly frustrating because i literally

can't even get dressed in the morning one of the polls that i thought was particularly interesting and i think explains why we spent so much time talking about youth, because I think a lot of rape culture is bred in youth, was we said, was or is rape culture evident at your school? And hundreds of people, 86% in fact, said yes, it was. And I think that's just everything, right? everything right i'm so glad you asked about school it seems to come up so often on the podcast um school experiences and i think it's because we talk about things like cat calling and sex and to be honest right now rape culture it's like school is literally a breeding ground for that stuff the weird power dynamic between teachers and students especially male teachers and female students to be honest a lot of them are not emotionally fucking intelligent a lot of them are fucking predators and they can't fucking handle having that power dynamic because

the only thing they know what to do with power is abuse it very true not speaking for all teachers i had some great male teachers but i also had some paedophilic male teachers same and i also think it just always comes back to school because school is where you learn school is where you learn so much and school really is where you learn what is acceptable and for the most part all of the worst things were shown to be acceptable at school i.e kind of bluetooth thing naked pictures of girls from the year below and stuff like that the rumors of like oh my god this girl fingered herself yeah send that right oh my god like it's like oh my god she's saying he raped her like but she just she's such a slut it just doesn't want to be with him anymore yeah it's basically your first introduction to power structures and especially i mean i don't even

know how this would work in a girl's school because my friends that went to girl's schools i think god you really didn't have an introduction to male female dynamics until like very late in life because the dynamics that play out between girls and boys i was going to say men and women but literal girls and boys at that early age is such an introduction to the ways that they will play out in later life in like jobs in the fucking supermarket i mean you can watch the same patterns repeat themselves that happened in fucking biology class in year eight yeah literally i wonder now if maybe some of you may be young enough to tell us we've encountered some young people who listen to the podcast who are very much in an instagram scene and i wonder if maybe hopefully even if it's a bit surface level there's some experiences for young girls where they are aware

of like feminist instagram like feminist tiktok those sorts of things that now in the classroom i can imagine kind of james uh you're such a misogynist uh like james uh i always used to go yeah no uh and my granddad would be like who the fuck is noah wouldn't say fuck he'd say who is noah and his arc who the fuck is noah dude but i'd be like noah and he'd always get really annoyed like who is noah stop like what is going on such a weird like pattern of speech but i wonder if that's a thing because i i think there is a part of society where i mean i think as time goes on we are just exposed to things at a much younger age anyway and then I think with social media that just amplifies everything further and so as much

as you could become aware of things that maybe a child shouldn't see you can also become aware of all of these amazing movements and I'm sure there are some circles where the conversations are becoming more empowered and empowering than what we would have experienced with our peers at kind of 12 years old yeah i hope so when i speak to young members of our audience or even the young people in my life for example i have a young cousin hey gg she follows i actually don't call gg but you know um i do as of now is the first time I've said her name but yeah she follows so she is I think like 15 16 I don't know maybe like 14 even and I even can notice feminist thought within her and feminist um just ideologies and behavior within her that I 100% did not have present in me I didn't have

names for it it's like well I don't want a man to do that i didn't know what that was i didn't know that's called feminism i didn't know that was empowerment or that this was a big movement that's been building since like the fucking 1930s like i didn't know earlier the dawn of time yeah i literally had no idea that this was like a structural power imbalance all of that stuff it's just kind of like oh my god like boys will be boys well now gen z know what capitalism is. And I think that's so powerful. And even though we did at the time, that's, you're not an anomaly now. Or the discourse around capitalism

was still based quite a lot, I think, and that's the system that is at play. Communism is so much worse and scary. Dangerous. We don't want that. And work hard for what you get. Don't be a fucking bum success is having a lot of money in a big house and you'll be happy that way and work work work like and a

husband and maybe you have a dog and two kids one boy one girl if you're lucky twins like oh my god that's as far as my thought process when i didn't really think or maybe if i thought it was never spelled out to me in the way that it's spelled out on TikTok and Instagram by Gen Z I mean they just have such an awareness that was just not available in the mainstream yeah I completely agree some a point that I wanted to that someone said a listener sent in they said and it's something that we spoke about maybe you'll know what episode because I can't remember but it really sums up I'm sure we had like a whole episode where we were really just like kept saying like shouting this at each other kind of every episode and it's a good point and it's kind of our favorite point ever so they said we need to acknowledge that consent does not exist

in a patriarchal society that is so fucking true and i'm sure people will be like what or like that's not true or wait what what does that mean so let's explain so let me explain we live in a patriarchal society correct men have power and our main point that we made where we were kind of spinning around this idea in a previous episode was that even though you can say yes to something and even if you could kind of even vocally consent to something if you are consenting in something that has been gaslighting you manipulating you with a real false consciousness around your place can you really call it consent when you actually don't know what you're getting yourself into and even more than

the individual thing of they may be gaslighting you can consent really exist in a world where fucking we grew up watching twilight it's literally we have romanticized psychotic behavior and female passivity and um obedience so how on earth can you consent how can that happen yeah really and especially how can a fucking 16 year old if that's that's the age of consent in the uk is 16 your prefrontal cortex whatever is not formed until you're what 21 is it ridiculous but also a 16 year old cannot define the power structures at play and it's not of no fault of their own it's the fault of the power structures at play and also power structures plural so it's like not only is there patriarchy there's also fucking white supremacy at play there's a class system at

play and the intersectionality of the whole thing i think the problem with rape culture as well that i think you and i forget is still happening because we seem to operate in a space that in many ways is quite far removed from basic ideology which is really like blowing smoke up our asses but you and I encounter really empowered feminism every single day. Yeah. Not just within the circle that we hold with you listening, but just in our day-to-day lives. And so it's easy for us to forget the reality that I was harshly reminded of when our post went viral,

that a lot of men think that, for example, Sophie wearing a short skirt is consent and they just leave it there. Yeah, asking for it. It's actually a lot more basic it's still for so many people than i think what a lot of us have the security now to be ignorant of if that makes sense i think definitely when that post basically the post said that men shame women for having a lot of sex more than they shame men a lot of consensual sex A lot of consensual sex. A lot of consensual sex more than they shame other men for rape, which I think is obviously true. And the rapists went nuts. If you live in

this society and you've ever analysed this world in any way, which I hope for God's sake that you have, and if you're listening to this podcast, you are in the process of doing, of course that is true. Of course slut shaming is a thing and rape culture is a thing that's all that's saying rape culture exists slut shaming exists it's the same literally it's the exact same paradox of every woman knows someone who has been raped or sexually assaulted or sexually abused and yet no man seems to know within his friendship group a rapist or a sexual abuser and yet you do you're just hiding it you do you're just covering it up you do it's just boy code friend code boys will be boys if boys can be boys is still such an ingrained part of

our kind of societal dialect our kind of vocab that we use how can you tell me rape culture doesn't exist exactly when the literal narrative that we uphold ourselves on excuses men for their actions and raises the bar to be honest to the floor so that when they are decent they're praised for being angels and when they are rapists they're kind of pushed out the back door like brock yeah and excused for what they did because they must be mentally ill as long as they're white i think brock turner is the perfect example and i think we should talk about him for a second yep let's get into it so brock turner if you didn't know the case which to be honest i hope to fucking god you have managed to live this far without fucking hearing about it because it's fucking bleak this guy was at uni He was kind of a white, wealthy, America's sweetheart kind of guy.

Kind of apple pie guy. I think he was a swimmer. Like he was an Olympic swimmer. I don't know. None of this is fact checked. Go and have a look. But this is just going from general media and that like this was famous. He was very into swimming or something. He was kind of an athletic guy. A girl at a party was drunk and he took huge advantage of her and raped her and dragged her out of the party and raped her by some bins two people happened to be walking past and they saw it and they intervened and this case was huge and the woman wrote an amazing open letter i was gonna say she broke her jane doe is it chanel yes something like that it's chanel chan Chanel Chanel Miller has a book called know my

name shivers a memoir fuck fuck fuck I've got shivers like I need to stop so basically she wrote in a minute oh my god I actually my eyes are watering yeah she wrote an amazing open letter to start off with she had anonymity and her name was Jane Doe um and she wrote an amazing open letter I think it was I think it was for like BuzzFeed I'm not sure I don't think it was I think it was like yeah I think it was or like Huffington Post or something like that and she wrote an amazing open letter i think it was i think it was for like buzzfeed i'm not sure i don't think it was i think it was like yeah i think it was or like huffington post or something like that and she wrote a long thing and she's so eloquent and she's so well written and she and she basically says what happened and it was a big case and this guy is a rapist he raped her the case took off and basically he was supposed to go to jail but everyone was kind of like no no he's he basically

was allowed he had how long in jail a year in jail and the power of social media too yeah because this is another one of those examples where if we hadn't have had gen z on twitter if we hadn't had jay-z on twitter i nearly said if we hadn't have had the gen z's on twitter who's who's fighting who's arguing where are the petitions where are the protests there are nowhere he was sentenced i think it was 18 months but it might that it was it was minuscule yeah because he is a white sort of men would love him other men other powerful white men would love him he's at like fucking harvard he's a swimmer like he looks fucking great on paper whatever he's like doing well for the world he honestly is fucking hitler's dream the fact that social media took off it meant that he was able to get sort of eight months sentenced in jail and now he's just gonna he's come out and he's

probably gonna get some fucking job at like daddy's little firm and be still really rich and successful and wealthy yeah and be fine because we absolutely move mountains in order to excuse a young man because it's like well you know, maybe he made a little mistake. But, you know, we can't take all of his opportunities away from him. Yeah, of course not. He's a bright young boy. And I think the judge, I think this was part of what was so sickening, is the judge said something that was like,

Yep. He's a bright young boy and he blah blah blah. It's like, how fucking dare you? He's a fucking rapist. Fucking Chanel Miller's a bright young woman and she got fucking raped and traumatized he's disgusting cunt he is um extremely wicked vile and whatever it is he's actually a disgusting rapist oh it's so that case really highlights and i think if you can say if you can sit there and say rape culture doesn't exist which i have encountered people in my life that say rape culture doesn't exist i've encountered people that say the patriarchy doesn't exist i mean

let's take that in to live in that blissful ignorance i'm actually a bit jealous you know what's quite a funny thing to say to people i used to say it all the time when people kind of don't understand their privilege is to be like i remember saying to someone they're essentially saying racism doesn't exist in the uk there is no racism etc etc and i said so would you want to be black tomorrow you wake up black are you happy about that are you all right with that yeah you tomorrow you wake up and you're a woman you're all right with that absolutely not no because now you're worried to go outside yeah you think everyone's gonna rape you why do you suddenly the protection at armor comes on when you suddenly have a daughter and you know all your

friends are gonna rape her yeah and you know they are because they'd be making similar comments about the girls you only understand the value of a woman when you can place it in your own seed essentially this is why i think it's so important to understand that rape culture is of course not saying that all men hashtag not all men are raping women but in the small ways that you oh i wish i could fucking find this thing it's like okay so you you don't rape women but have you let have you made it so that a woman has to plan everything and just done the bare minimum have you let a woman clean up clean and cook for you have you said to a woman oh i wouldn't go out wearing that have you called a woman easy because she was in a little dress have you said like oh i'll get her tipsy do you

listen to music that says she's had a few drinks in her can like oh i'll get her tipsy do you listen to music that says she's had a few drinks in her can't wait to get home she's a fucking slut bitch i'm gonna yeah yeah i'm gonna fuck this bitch are you now because i think she thinks you're a piece of shit and you should be so lucky to be shit on her shoe or she probably thinks you're fucking great because she's obsessed with you and because we've been fed fucking bullshit yeah that makes that excuses that kind of behavior and places them as a god because they're not actively raping you we're getting fumigated we're getting absolutely fumed i'm getting fumigated what i was gonna say is have you do you remember the song blurred lines i do you remember it i remember it oh i remember

it clear as day let me get the lyrics up. So the lyrics are really bad. I've got them up right now. And worse when they're paired with the video. So much worse. The video just takes something bad and... Throw it in the bin even further. It launched Emily Ratajkowska's... Yes, it did.

Emrata. I don't know. Her career because her boobs were so amazing. Yeah. I mean, it literally got her a role in fucking Gone Girl. Showing her boobs. She was in Gone Girl. Yeah boobs she was in gone girl yeah which is a great film it is a great film so the so let's just start with the title of the song we're not going to work through but just the title blurred lines so blurred lines between consent she doesn't want it and she does want it you're in the you're in the recording studio and someone says right the title i'm thinking something about blurred lines

and you know it's about consent listen i've got to walk out i have to leave oh it's like kind of she wants it she's a good girl but she wants to get fucked yeah it's crazy she kind of wants it but she kind of doesn't i also remember so i was doing a level english and my english teacher who i loved sophie will remember this remember this if she's listening. And she called us. Hey, Sophie, again. Hey, Sophie. She called us. This episode is just for you. We got one listener and we're going to make it count. Yeah, so our English teacher called us in.

At the very beginning, she had the music video up. This like kind of more censored version. She was like, this is wrong. Watch this. This is about a song about blurred lines between rape and sex. And we blew our minds because we're all like don't get a little past me yeah i know you want it right okay so to start it the title is fucking horrendous blurred lines get get kind of the worst ones you

could think of i've got three points of of bad lyrics i'll read them quickly so i know you want it i know you want it i know you want it you're a good girl can't let it get past me you're far from plastic talk about getting blasted pretty awful that's bad take it away go on i've just seen the look on your face change jesus so hit me up when you pass through i'll give you something big enough to tear your ass in two swag on them even when you dress casual I mean it's almost unbearable um someone do it like it hurt like it hurt is pretty bleak I'm a nice guy don't get confused this pimping you should start a youtube cover channel you're a nice guy are you gonna tear so in the same breath you're going to tear my ass in two and but you're a nice guy are you gonna tear so in the same breath you're going to tear my ass in two

and but you're a nice guy you're a nice guy it's crazy i think i'm remembering this slightly incorrectly but if it's true it's crazy i'm pretty sure pharrell it might be a different song which would just completely ruin this whole point he was involved wasn't he yeah he he's yeah he's in the song yeah and i'm pretty sure he produced it because that's kind of his forte. But I'm pretty sure he was sued. It might not be this song, but I'm pretty sure he was sued for this song, but not for the reasons you would hope.

He was just sued because it was kind of plagiarising another vibe of a different song. Oh my God. What a kick in the teeth. Literally. Imagine. So if you aren't familiar with the video essentially the girls are just wearing around naked and just kind of like rubbing their bums on everyone they're

completely naked and there's one bit i'm also so if you don't know i love lily allen i think she's amazing i was gonna say she takes that exact line but there's one bit and also goes even further so there's one bit in the blurred lines video where it's big blow up sort of balloon letters and it says robin thick has a big dick in big writing and they're all dancing in front of it and lily allen in her video for hard out there or hard out here i think it's hard hard out here hard out here bitch it's so good a feminist anthem yeah it's hard out here for a bitch it really is yeah and she has it in big blow up bubble writing go and watch the video is lily allen has a baggy pussy which i just love it's iconic it's funny because my english teacher had us read lily allen lyrics which one um we definitely looked at 22

which is against sylvia plath yeah her future would look like. Yeah, it's interesting. So amazing. Thanks, Miss Ashmore. Robin Thicke. That whole fucking vibe is just so fucking disgusting. You know what? I have a personal gripe with this. So Robin Thicke did this whole rapey vibe. Robin Thicke has a big dick, etc. I'm going to tear your ass in two.

Everything's super sexualised. I'm going to tear your ass in two, etc, etc. And that's all fine. That will be number one on the radio for weeks and weeks. will be three year old girls i like those bloodlines but when miley cyrus her own young woman gets up on stage and dances around having the time of her life having a whale of a time a joke and a laugh after being sexualized for her entire life in her little latex her entire life at disney i have a personal issue with miley because i'm obsessed and i am still annoyed at every individual who tore her down when she was having

only the time of her life and exploring who she was was trying to break away from a lifetime of essential manipulation from a big corporation just Just literally doing whatever she wanted, sliding down a big fucking hot dog on tour. Like, she was having a laugh and you were sat miserable in your own house complaining about her. Who's winning? Not you. Whilst singing a song about raping girls. That's the thing. Robin Thicke got away with everything he did and was celebrated for it. Miley Cyrus lost so much just for that one Vma's performance because it was a girl capitalizing on it and was a running joke for years was a joke her twerking with the big foam finger like it's a big joke it was um sort of a parody made a mockery out of her harry styles even went as her for

halloween once in that little latex yeah with the little space bun look nude thing with the space buns yeah also i think that why the miley slut shame the slut shaming of miley in that phase hits so hard is because it's like in my mind as a kid she's my big sister it's sweet niblets don't talk about her like that sweet fucking niblets no no no no well also i think the miley thing is particularly interesting because she'd always been this real um conventional beauty with kind of long flowing hair brown hair as well so it's like attainable and wholesome it's not blonde but she's also the blonde hannah want yeah so she does get the best of both worlds it's ridiculous she's slut and a good girl glamorous but she also has a hair in a messy bun yeah she's a whore and a virgin what made her so great i think was that

she was actually for the first time running around with hairy armpits and she'd cut all her hair off and she was doing something i think at the time that felt very authentic to her and i think it's such a shame that no one was there for that and bangers was an uniconic album full of bangers dare i say i'm she's not perfect but but she is don't talk any shit about her dear oh dear i mean are we rapping i'm exhausted yeah i'm absolutely exhausted let's get out of here we were just saying our best episodes i feel is when we feel the fire like in us like when we're getting angry together like the world is fucked and i hope you feel the fire too because like i feel like um i could honestly run a mile right now yeah i hope your dog walk turned into a run very quickly within kind of 15 minutes i sometimes

feel like i need to go ice skating like i need to match my outsides with my insides of like chaos like i need to be on ice that would be great kind of disney on ice priestess on ice yeah patriarchy on ice thank you so much for listening genuinely as always and thank you so much to kate for sending in her message and to everyone we're sorry that we're messages sorry that i named and shamed you kate i hope you're listening thanks so much for listening always guys we i'm gonna cry i just love you yeah we're obsessed we're obsessed so go and have the best day ever now like go and cook yourself a big old meal like go and put on your favorite show just like chill out now if you could have any meal right now what would it be always sushi every time

i had sushi the other day it was really good i haven't had sushi in fucking months neither had i and it really it hit different it was crazy i've been buying those like itsu seaweed just you know just the seaweed things packs yeah they're good well because I just need that sushi taste. I can't get fucking sushi anywhere. So you know what kind of gives me that vibe is the baked kale. Like really salty, crispy kale. I completely agree. Yeah. Maybe we could put soy sauce on the baked kale.

Yeah. Anyway, move on. Yeah, that would be good. Give it a dip in. Anyway. Give it a dip in. Right. Give it a dip in.

So go and dip in, everyone. See you next week. Enjoy. Bye.