Goes Without Saying - Can Friends Survive A Political Divide New Enemy Unlocked

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on opinions, morals, and political differences, managing expectations for yourself and others, failure, redirection, and knowing when to change course. ✷see more ✷ youtube @sephyandwing ✷ instagram @sephyandwing ✷ tiktok @sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk

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Visit Ancestry.ca. For more details. Terms apply. Don't be so bold to assume, especially at fucking like 18, that you know what's best for you. Don't be so fucking bold because you will get humbled. And you're an idiot. Like, I hate to tell you, if you're 18, you're a moron. And I mean that with love, because I mean that to my past self.

And I also mean it to myself now. Like, we are not as smart and scheming as we fucking think we are. Let things fucking play out and just have a bit of faiths. Maybe those conversations are some of the hardest things. Like, my heart goes, like, not even my heart. Like my whole body goes out to you because it is actually like a bodily reaction having these conversations with people, especially people that you love and like don't understand. It's like it's like an information gap between you. Like you've been consuming different forms of media that are, you're in different spaces and your conversation cannot bridge it. It's so, it's so tricky. You're living on different planets. You're experiencing different worlds. Yeah, no, you actually are. And I like, this is actually dodgy from you.

that I do in public. Like this is actually like I am not fit for the public. Like I was sitting on the curb like this. This is it. I literally got it and I like threw the camp on the ground like this. Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Seffi and Wing. I'm Seffi and I'm Wing.

And this is quite an intense episode I think. We're giving advice to you guys. We're dealing with your shit in this one. If you're going through something, there's a high likelihood we talk about it in this episode. We talk about disappointment, sort of fails. expectations, uni. We also get quite political.

We're talking about how to deal with your friends when they have differing political views to you. Kind of the polarised nature of the landscape right now. It's not looking good for us. So yeah, come along for the ride. This is kind of a crazy one. Hi. Hi.

How are you doing? I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. I was just thinking when we just... One, two, three, let's go. Hi, whatever. I was thinking, God, we've been doing this a while. while. Boy, have we been doing this for a while? Like, I, like, hundreds of times. Oh, my God. Can I say

the nice thing that someone said in the pub the other day, but it was about the podcast. Someone was asking me about the podcast. And I was like, yeah, I've just been doing it for like five years, like, honestly, ages sort of thing. And then someone, like, chipped in. It's a really nice girl, chipped it and said, oh, it was kind of one of the first of its kind. I mean, I'll take it. If I do suppose it was. I don't know if it was. But I love to hear it.

I feel like it wasn't, but I love that. I think it was in a sense. There's definitely like, in terms of like the bulk of podcasts, we started at a good time, I'll say. We did. We were in that wave of pre-COVID girls talking. I'd love to know when you found us. Me too. Me too.

Listener. Everyone's going to say, from name. Oh yeah, so true, who we love. Oh my God, more than anything. And how are you? I'm good. I'm kind of, oh my God, so yesterday we were supposed to record. So today is Saturday. Our episodes come out on Monday.

Yeah. Yesterday we were supposed to record. And oh my God, I was just having one of those days like, you know, you know, when you wake up and just like everything is going wrong. Like my pocket permit hadn't expired. Just like there was all this shit going on. Like, you know when you're just on hold, like all. this stuff and it was like, okay, I also had to submit something. There was load of stuff happening.

And then I was like, sat down to record and I was like, I can't do this. I can't do this. Yeah. I think it was for the best, to be honest. Me too. Sometimes it's just not, we just can't. We're not there. Today feels so much better.

Like, I'm sorry that it's the weekend and I'm interrupting your weekend. I'm sorry. Well, I had, what you haven't mentioned is I actually pushed back the day before. So we've just getting later and been kind of edging this. way but now we're here exactly and I'm liking it I'm happy so far me too we also watch we're not gonna talk about it in this episode but like no but we can come back to it if you're intrigued like and you will be in so can we say the name of the show that we want to talk about yeah a show called virgin island yesterday when we were speaking in the pre when I was like I don't think I can do this today

but let's just talk for a bit yeah I was like well let me tell you about this TV show and oh my god that's what I did. I basically, as soon as we closed the laptop, sat down and watched this fucking thing. And it's called Virgin Island. Don't know if I just said that. Yeah. It's really, really fucked up.

It's horrific. I think we are going to have to, like, properly speak about it. It's the concept, quote unquote, is like they take a handful of virgins, quote unquote, and bring them to an island. And they are,

I think this is pretty much, word for word, yeah. Word for word, I'm pretty sure they say they're going to test their limits and push their boundaries. Disgusting. To make them more like open with intimacy or whatever. And we have some thoughts on it. It was, I was sitting in my bed, this bed, if you're watching the video right now, this bed I'm on right now. Sitting there with a cup of tea. And I was literally like, this feels like one of the worst things I've seen actually. I mean, you're watching. It's crying. It's genuinely abuse. And it's like therapists, people that call themselves therapist they're not therapists they are like they're sleeping with the clients it's really really and there's like massive fucking age gaps between them as it's you know no no it's so problematic like

so we need to properly properly talk about it because i actually think we need to get it off the fucking air this is a channel four show by the way channel four have made this show and i genuinely think it's a fucking crime like this it's really really bad yeah it's really really bad so that kind of yeah We'll pick back up on next episode, yeah. Yeah. For today, we're going to discuss some advice. Yeah, what's going on with you guys.

All sorts I've read in the DMs and the Instagram story. So we asked for basically anything. So like friendship, dating, whatever's going on your life. And there's some things happening. And I feel like the advice episodes are just kind of, I was saying earlier, I feel like it brings a new kind of, we end up talking about something from a kind of different angle. because it almost has that nicheness where it's like you're talking about something quite specific and you end up drawing new conclusions.

Yeah, definitely. Just interesting. I guess because it's coming from the outside, not the inside, like when we're thinking about like, I don't know, topics that are that we have in us that are like, that's all, I don't know. Those are old, like, regurgitated points almost. These are like other people's ideas. Yeah, which is nice.

Yeah. Shall we kick? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Oh, there are a few different angles. Is there any way that you're feeling in particular? No, I could be drawn in any direction today. Any direct. I'm an open book. Okay.

Okay, I know what you're going to say. Or like, I think it's a good time. It's never not a good time for you to reflect on this quick little story that you have. Yeah, you, Seffi. But I think we can also talk about this. like basically I'm going to I'm going to say this person's thing okay and we're both going to think yep that reminds me of someone and you're going to say the thing that happened that changed your life and it made you meet me and all of this stuff and da da da da da da but I also think it's a good thing to talk about okay so this person said they just failed their English A level and lost their Cambridge place so lost their place at Cambridge uni how can I move past this failure and I thought it reminded me of the ex to uni story Oh my God. Yeah, it was Exeter.

Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I was thinking who's the person? You? Oh, okay. No? What do you mean? You said it reminds me of a certain person. Yeah, it reminds you of me.

Yeah, when you wanted to go to Exeter. Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. But just the way you set it up to be me. I know. I was running through everyone in my life. I was like, who could this be? Okay, right, me, me. That's really when you're looking for your glasses.

I've got a crush on a girl. She's got. got brown hair and she has a podcast. You're looking for your glasses there on your head. Yeah. It's you. Me, this happened to me. Guys, you fucking know if you don't want to.

I know. That's why I thought you could just kind of nail it in one. You know the story. You've heard it in a million episodes. I was obsessed with the idea of going to Exeter uni when I was like, for some reason I was like applying for my A, applying, doing my A levels and stuff had this like big thing about, I'm going to Exeter. So weird. To the point where that was your only option you put down.

insurance choice. I'd just put that. I'd never been there. I don't know why. What the fuck. This is the kind of person I am. I'm very, very like binary with my thinking. Like I will get obsessed with something and like. And in this case it was exce uni. It's been many boys in my life. It's been many things. In this case, it was exeter university. Yeah. And very good. Yeah. And I was like, I'm going there. And then I on the day got one mark off. going so it applied for a remark or the stuff did not get it devastation ensued um but it was genuinely god i actually have to be so real right now and be like that was genuinely the best thing one of the best things that has ever happened to me i am so sure of that like yeah i don't i genuinely look back

with like confusion over but but i think it's so so I really did feel the devastation. And it went on for like a few weeks where I was like, oh my God, this is horrific. And the worst bit was when everyone was like going off to uni. And like I went, I did this day in London with one of my friends like buying like pots and pans and like going around things for like going around all the clothes shops with her and her mom

and like helping her get all the stuff. When they were prepping to go to uni. When she was prepping to go. And I feel like that was one of those things that like, that's crazy. In hindsight, I shouldn't have done that. And I did really struggle with that. day, just feeling like everyone was going and I had made this decision to not. But in that year,

God, I did so much and I do think I just like changed so much and grew so much. And my sister always says this that I needed to be humbled at that point because... Is that the James Charles Humble part? Genuinely, because the person that is applying to this one thing with a fixed image of who they are and what they can do and like this is where I am going just to get that breeds a terrible person. And I think like having the thing that I wanted just be like no, absolutely like no, you didn't get it and you can't do the thing. In kind of a light way, it did feel really deep and dark at the light kind of it felt very

heavy and like your life trajectory is changing. It feels so final and huge at the time. But it was, oh my God. I truly mean it. it changed my thoughts on like fate spirituality all of this stuff like I genuinely think it made me like it made me genuinely like a bit more mental of like I do think that did happen for a reason like there was no reason for me to not get that grade one mark but it genuinely meant the difference between I do think well I'm just very happy with the way everything played out basically and I'm very

grateful for that happening yeah and it does make a lot. It was like, it feels like a pivotal moment. I think it's just a nut. I think it's, it's a great story on so many levels. It's weird. Why would I do that? It is really weird that like, because also, this obviously

feels like a million miles away, so I can't really, but like thinking back to that time, I swear you had to, you paid a certain, you paid like 25 quid or whatever at the time to apply it and you've got five things that you could apply to, like five different uni places you could apply to. And I remember

us like not being allowed to not feel all the fun. No no people were the most teachers were really annoyed at me. The teachers were like really you should you really should do that and I was like I'm not doing that I was like and my whole thing was like I was like I don't believe in plan B's I don't believe I was like I've got my thing and if I don't get that I do

I'd reassess but I'm not going I was mental because now I very much do I think often you don't explore your choices Well, now I think you don't know what you want. Don't be so bold to assume, especially at fucking like 18, that you know what's best for you. Don't be so fucking bold because you will get humbled.

And you're an idiot. Like, I hate to tell you, if you're 18, you're a moron. And I mean that with love. Because I mean that to my past self. And I also mean it to myself now. Like, we are not as smart and scheming as we fucking think we are. Let things fucking play out and just have a bit of faiths, maybe. Yeah.

And I also think, like, so for example, to this person who specifically is like, at this moment lost their place at Cambridge, like failed their English, whatever they needed for their English language or lit? That was the same as me, English lit. Was it? Yeah, I got, um, I wanted a, A, A, I needed A, A, B, and I got A B.

And it was in English, which is what I wanted to do and what I did do in the end. But in English lit, I got to be, and I was devastated. Freakern heck. Yeah. It's a kicker. It is, you know what? Like, I think, especially at that age, like, it is, it's a huge, you're probably, like, moving

somewhere, you might be moving across the country or whatever. And, like, you're, in England, I know that it's very much focuses and you choose your, like, one thing that you're going to do a degree in. At, like, you're really bottlenecking yourself. Yeah, right? Like, you really are, it feels like you're shutting a lot of doors at once and kind of going down a certain route. And it feels very final.

And there's, like, so much pressure on you at that age. and I really do think, like, take a little bit of the pressure off. And I also, like, we've got a lot of questions about people graduating and stuff. And I know those things can, like, feel really different at the time. But as someone who isn't applying to uni or graduating from uni currently, I do feel like there are times where there's a lot of pressure on you and you're thinking a lot about, like, whether or not you can, you're good enough to get into something or, like, whether or not you're making the right decision.

And I was thinking that I think my advice overall would be, And this might sound like not really relevant. But I think if you're in that kind of post-grad time of like not knowing what you're doing and you feel like such a fucking failure and like everyone else looks like they're doing amazing and you're like a piece of shit, great. Or like you're trying to go to whatever. And your thing, you've lost your grade and you're not feeling great and whatever. I do think in that time, that time is going to be stressful.

So intentionally put in as many moments as you can. Like for example with your friends before they like move. to X, Y, Z place and go to a different uni or like, spend as much time as you can, like, watching a fucking weird TV show that is, like, absolutely nuts with your friend. Not the one we said. Maybe not that one, but, like, just, like,

spend as much time as you can feeling happy. Yeah. And, like, laughing with, like, people who care about you and, like, make as many good times as you can in that time because it, I think can be easy to then look back and be like, God, that was a really stressful time. Yeah. just diluting that slightly and being like that was really stressful but I also like oh that was the

time where we like went camping and I like got so drunk I did this and did like just kind of neutralising a little bit balming it a little bit with some other nice stuff because just because it's stressful doesn't mean like you can't have good do I mean like you need fuel for life well realizing I think that it can be both things at once and probably will be two things at once or five things at once everything everywhere at all points like there is no way that graduating or trying to get into a union all of these staff

is not going to be stressful like for example taking the girls like question or like example of like you tried to get into Cambridge and you didn't get in good for you by the way good for you I also I had an interview at Cambridge at Oxford and I did not get in and

I'm pretty confident now that was a good thing that happened So when was that before then you got into the Exeter? Yeah, yeah, this was before Oxford do, Oxford do, Oxford do things really early. You've got to apply. Yeah. You have to do an exam.

In like October, I think. It's fucking weird. You do an exam first. And then that's like the first stage. Then you go and stay. Were you into the idea of Oxford before you were into the idea of Exeter? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Oxford, that's all first.

And then I, you get that rejection pretty much straight after and then you move on. I was just thinking, where you set on Exeter from like, when you were quite young. No, no, no. I'd literally heard of it like a month before. Yeah, you're a fucking nutter. Yeah, no, I didn't know what it was. I think I googled the like notable alumni

and there was someone on that list that I liked. I think it might have been Caroline Lucas, you know. Brighton Queen. So, yeah, Karen Lucas was the like MP for Green, the Green party. Yeah. I think she went to Exeter. I actually met her many times at the time.

She's a Queen. I've got a photo with her, I think. I have met her as well, actually. I think at a event in Brighton. She was always like, bobbing about. But that's so weird. Yeah, I think I wanted to go to extra because Caroline Lucas went there.

But then I went to Sussex where she was like the fucking MP. At Medcan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health. From the big milestones to the quiet winds. That's why our annual health assessment offers a physician-led, full-body checkup that provides a clear picture of your health today. And may uncover early signs of conditions like heart disease and cancer. The healthier you means more moments to do. cherish. Take control of your well-being and book an assessment today. Medcan, live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started.

There were probably some other people. I remember her being on there. There must have been others as well. That's deranged though. She was a real star at the time. No, she's everything. I love Caroline Lucas. I remember getting a text like Caroline is in the, she's on the escalators in Sainsbury's and Lewis Road. And I was like, oh my God. Queen. Queen. Like nuts. Just honestly, really weird. but like so like these this is what I mean by your 18 you're a moron like you don't know I yeah exeter nobody in my family has been that like it's not like a big fucking thing people like I remember when I did go to an open or like I don't know I don't know if it was even an open day

when I was really really sat on it my mum and her friend were like let's go there and I remember walking around me like it's a bit like I was I kind of couldn't quite see clearly but I was a bit like I think I had a voice in the back of my head a bit like why this place but at the same time I was set like it was you know you can't see straight you're mental sometimes there is a voice in your being because I remember this is a separate story now and this is a different vibe but and I probably have told this story before but the story of how we got this flat in Brighton yes is quite crazy I think or not it's not nobody it has a fate element to it so which I just love like I love everything that has that like

The spooky thing to it. So we were moving out at quite a pace and we were in Stevenage at the time in my boyfriend's dad's house and we had to be out within like, I don't know, like we had to be out like the summer sort of thing. So it was like shit. And it was kind of a pain because it was in COVID and then we had to like do viewings and stuff. So we'd have to travel all the way down to like do viewings and like it was all obviously in Brighton like the renting is so quick like something gets put up and then it's gone within a little hour. And you get to a viewing and there's like five groups on you. horrible. I remember my boyfriend came in

and showed me this place and was like, oh, look at this. And I was like, oh, what? Fo. That's a bit of me. Look at that. That's a cracking place.

Foie. Yeah, yeah. A Uga. I was like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's my type on paper. I was like, wow, love it. And it just looked really nice. For like the price as well,

it was like we were looking at like flooded, like moldy infested places everywhere. And then this place, I feel like that's one of the things of like walking around being like, I'm feeling lucky to get in it. Honestly. And then seeing these photos and I was like, this, there must be something not right because this looks really nice.

And it's the same price that we're looking at. We're like, let's give you. Contact them. Like, please please please, please, please please. I'll do anything. I'll do anything. I'll kiss your feet. Whatever.

Remember getting there and someone was waiting out. side and I was like, die. Die. I'll fucking kill you. I was like, this fucking motherfucker. So annoyed. And they like went in and out and I was like,

oh, I'm like, no, no, no, no. And they were like, no, no, don't worry. Like, that she's going to look at all of the applicants before she just like signs on to the person, whatever. And I was like, okay. Like the landlord. And I was like, okay, fine. That makes feel better.

But you did, like, I was like, Jesus. It is nice. Like, okay, weird. Like, hmm, okay, fine. It's nice. Like, I thought there must be something wrong with it for the price. I think she just doesn't know. Like, nobody tell her, but I think she just doesn't know, like,

that she could really bump the price up. But anyway, came out, whatever. And we were like, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, applied for it, whatever. Like, a couple, you'll find out on Friday. A couple of days pass. We don't hear anything. Also, there was another house, if you remember, that you'd have viewed that you didn't like as much.

As much. and you almost accept I don't know if you're getting there Yeah yeah yeah yeah So yeah my boyfriend came in and was like Oh they've said we've not got it I've gone with someone else and I was like Damn I was like oh shit

And I was actually so devastated But I was like but I felt like When I was in there I felt like Yeah yeah like and I guess everyone thinks No no no no no no no no they like But like you know I was like you see something it's like, oh, I think that, I think that burger is mine. No, I kind of like that.

Because you didn't just feel like, oh, nice car. Oh, I like it. It was like, I live here. This is hours, though. Like, there was a weird feeling and I couldn't believe it. When he was like, she's gone with somebody else. I was like, no, I was kind of like, no, that's not, why has she done that? Silly girl, that's not how it goes.

It's not a silly landlord. Why on earth would she do that? That's not my script. And I was really devastated. So we signed onto this. other one, which if anyone knows Brighton, it was up Ditchling Road. It was actually quite nice. It wasn't bad.

It was just like not as nice. You just didn't have the feeling. Didn't have the feeling and it wasn't as good of a location. Which Ditchling Road is a great location, but like... It just not... It wasn't this one. It wasn't this one and it wasn't the vibe. But we signed onto it.

We paid the, what's it called? Like holding fee or something, like 200 quid or whatever to be like, yeah, we're going to put our stuff forward, whatever, blah, blah, blah. So we like signed on to it. And I remember then we went to Honest Burger. It's delicious. Where you saw someone there that day. Oh.

The parents. Was that that day? No, it was that day. Because remember you being like, that was weird? I think it might have been a different time because that time I was outside and then the time with that person's parent I was inside. I do frequent Honest Burger quite often.

Anyway, hangang dang dang, nah, honestly, whatever, living my life. And then, so we've signed on it. It's like, fine. I'm like trying to get my head around it. I'm like making a Pinterest board for like a slightly different color palette of like, okay, we're in like a slightly older sort of. It's like, you're trying to me?

I'm like, okay, like, fine. Let me get my head around this. The fact that like, whatever, fine. And then we're signing the papers and we're like putting all of our stuff in and da-da-da. And my boyfriend gets a call being like, oh, hey, I don't know if you're still interested, but the landlord has actually changed her mind on the people that she signed off on. And that place is opened up and she'd like you to apply. and I was like

she read my script she got my vibes oh my god she got my universal language of like no no we were supposed to be there also like of course and we lost the holding fate

at the other place whatever and we signed on to this place and it's not that big of a deal but there was something about it where I really felt like this is mine like it just

I don't like I haven't felt that that much in my life, but I felt so sure that it was ours. And then it was ours, thank God. And sometimes life just works out in a way that you don't expect and whatever. And da-da-da-da-da, trust me, things will be okay. Absolutely. Do you know what a case, this is just like a small thing,

but like you were also involved in this. But like a time where I've had that, I'm at the moment, I'm in quite like a witchy, spiritually mood. Okay, like weird shit is going on with me. in my life, like I'm manifesting weird shit at the moment. I can't get into it. You'll hear at one point, I promise, Harry, like, we will get around to it, but like, it's just all...

Yeah, you might be waiting a while, but it'll be worth there. There's a weird one in particular that it's just so good. Like, just weird shit is going on. Like, or just a lot of, like, I say something, then the next day it happens, sort of thing. So good. But I've been thinking about a lot, but there was one that relates kind of to that feeling of like, I saw this happening and then it worked in the exact way that it happened.

And when, and we spoke about it in a few episodes ago, when you got the dungeon room. Yeah. I remember walking around the house. There were five bedrooms and five girls. Oh, yeah. And I remember being like, I think the rooms would be best. Sorry, in my brain, putting you in the dungeon room. But I was like, the rooms would be best in this way.

That works. And then we weren't even there. Our friends pulled these names out of the hat. And it was the exact five, the girls were in the exact room that I thought they would, we were best in and I remember just thinking like I didn't think oh I did that but I thought like those were the only ways that that would have worked like that is all like it's not but it's like which is funny now to think about because those are the reasoning is kind of off like not off but just like something specific about that yeah it's really weird well it just made sense it's true to the time

for the big room to yeah like it just kind of like I was just like that all makes sense yeah um or like I think I just almost flashed into the future in my mind saw it then flashed back and I was like right I know where everyone's going to be I can't that is obviously nuts but sometimes you just know it's like you were in your house and you were like I know I'm going to be there you know what as well I will say I did get a weird feeling when we sat down and that dining table in that house which house we had tarot cards all over the road tarot cards all over the thing I just remember specifically looking into your eyes and being like we're starting a thing and we're doing it and actually we were talking about the first time we

met the other day. At Freya's birthday. People were... Yeah. Oh my God. Freya said such a nice thing. She was saying to her sister. Oh yeah. She did. About... Oh, no. You're going to say something different. Well, Freya was introducing... So, Ferra was introducing us to all her friends and her sister has listened for a while as well. And she was introducing us properly to her. And then she was like, have you ever met someone with just like two people with just more chemistry than them? And it's like... Oh my God. And then so the other nice thing that I know what you're going to say. Well, this is a compliment to the listener, I think. Freya was like, out of all of the quote unquote talent I've ever been across,

they have the most, like, dedicated listeners, like the most dedicated audience who are like in. Yeah. I was like, that's fucking nice. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks guys. It's actually so nice. And I do feel that like, oh my God.

Because we, so we're talking at Oxford. Yes, on the 9th. If you go to Oxford, if you live near Oxford or anything. We'll be posting the link, etc. Oxford University, I think it's Merton College. We're talking about on the 9th of May, no, 9th of June, sorry, 9th of June, 2025. Be there. Yeah.

Planet Earth, Oxford University. I'll post the link in this episode description when it's art, I think. But why I was thinking of that is because at Cambridge, people came and like people had written us letters and people were like, they wanted to speak to us and we desperately wanted to speak to everyone and it was just an amazing moment and I remember Freya we went for dinner afterwards with Freya and she was like that doesn't happen she was like that was it like that was not the case for like there's a depth to it isn't there it's really nice because I actually recently I've been having like I'll be in a freaking stinky mood and I'll be stomping around town and then the most beautiful angel I've ever seen approaches and says

hey I love the podcast and I'm like oh my god like this happened to me the other day you've renewed my life I'm not going to kill myself in the tomorrow like woohoo like you have you've um petrol stationed me you've just boosted my expiry date it breaks through something I think because like like no at the time this is actually like really embarrassing I'm like but you know we've all been there just in a stroop in public just like I was in a right old stop I was it back in Oxford and I was like sitting it was really hot I'd been like trudging around Oxford all day I was waiting for my bus my bus with delayed and I had like had a bottle of water and I like finished it and I like this is actually shows the shit that I do in public like this is actually like I am not fit for

the public like I was sitting on the curb like this like I have a podcast at this point like it's like you shouldn't really be yeah but still did you throw the cap? no this is it I literally got it and I like threw the cap on the ground like and I was sitting there like this like really devastated it Head in hands. And then I went and got the cap because I don't like to be a litter bug. That's the bit... Crawling along the cobbles.

Like by a bin. Like it's so weird. But like I was just sitting on the cab like fuck my life. Like I'm feeling so sorry for myself. Nothing had happened. I get a message from a girl later that day. Saying, hey, I saw you today in Oxford sitting on the curb. But I didn't want to say anything.

that's the thing that scares me is when someone's like hey i saw you earlier no it kills me it absolutely because i've had that a few times now like probably because i'm like always fucking throwing some kind of tantrum in public tantrum people don't feel scared or like bad to come up to me i'm always stomping around at a bad mood where i think i have quite a people will often say to me god like you were you were right you looked really annoyed earlier and you look really upset come up. Please, please, please. Also, like, this is just like, PSA. Please. I need it. Please. I need it for my soul. That's actually like the best moments of this. Of life. Yeah. Literally of life. Please, please, please, please say hi. Like, it is the nicest thing. If you can. I promise you, we feel more like,

definitely. Oh my God. And it's so much more embarrassing to get the message after being like, hey, I saw you crying on the curb throwing your water bottle on the ground. Because in the moment, I'd be like, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. And it would be fine. but seeing it afterwards it's like it's like please let me explain myself like don't just witness me and then leave it like unspoken like I need to be able to

unpack what you just saw genuinely all right shall we do another lots of love to the person you didn't get into so much love and I actually like I swear to fucking God it will work out like my my actual big advice is don't be so

bold to assume that you know what's best for you at such a young age slash at any age like I think we're fools to think that we can have these plans that work out just trust like things go

things will move in directions you never anticipated never even thought of that will blow your mind 100% and I think as well like give yourself I just in my mind

I don't think you've given yourself probably enough credit for like what you've done to get to this point like to be in a position to have lost your Cambridge place like yeah that's a way

a great position to be and I know it doesn't sound it but like that says that you have done so much work and must be like you know you've really you've dedicated so much like you've done so well to just even get to that point definitely genuinely just like take your time lean on the people who you trust and and enjoy like just yeah it's going to be hard for a bit but just like but well done yeah congrats someone said advice on political opinion at friendships. Some of my school friends now have political opinions that I can't tolerate, trad wives, choice feminism, etc.

I love them so much, but I cannot navigate this political divide. I don't fucking blame you, to be honest. I think this conversation has changed so much, like literally within the last, like, even five years. I think I used to, because politics is so polarised now and is becoming more and more polarized, there used to be like, my political gap with people, with my friends, used to be like, they're Tory and I'm Labor. Like, that used to be the kind of like, okay, there's a, there's a, feels like, there's a massive

rift between us and oh my God, I cannot fucking see your point of view. Yeah. Now it's like, Jesus Christ, Tory and Labor feel crazily close right now. The other ends of the spectrum have just like been blown. wide fucking open and now you're dealing with fucking reform like it's completely it's so hard to engage like I have people in my life that voted reform and those conversations are some of the hardest things though I like my heart goes like not even my heart like my whole body goes out to you because it is actually like a bodily reaction having these conversations with people

especially people that you love and like don't understand It's like so fucking hard to have these conversations because it's like, I'll be crying. They feel angry. There's a huge fucking like, it's like an information gap between you. Like you've been consuming different forms of media that are, you're in different spaces and your conversation cannot bridge it. It's so, it's so tricky. You're living on different planets.

You're experiencing different worlds. Yeah, no, you actually are. So I don't see how a conversation. or the conversations that I've had with these people, I find like, oh my God, I literally can't even fucking put it into words, draining to the next fucking level. They're still worth it at times,

but I think it's worth, like, doing these things in, like, teams. And, like, once you know that you're, it's time for you to fucking tap out, next person comes in and can have that conversation. I think, especially if you know these people well and, like, potentially live with them and, like, this is, like, family and things, that,

God, I don't even fucking know. It's very... I'm with you. It's fucking exhausting. Yeah. It's very tough. And it's very heavy

because suddenly you have literally the weight of like the world's biggest issues. At your dining table. Yeah. Placed in a dynamic of like someone that you love and have known so closely. It's like really bringing something like the size of Mars and putting it on like a a P. It's like literally.

like we don't have room in our dynamic for something this big and I don't have room in my soul to carry the weight of the world and bring it to you to feel okay yeah it's and it's so hateful I think that's also the thing it's like you're bringing hate like violent hate in like it's not like you're dealing with um just like a differing of opinion like this is also what I used I used to struggle with like my Tory well they're not even Tori but they're not even tort but people that like his fucking families voted Tory and they would like talk about it at school sort of thing yeah um i used to just like fully not be able to fucking comprehend them and be like you're disgusting sort of thing but like you'd be having a conversation about like it would be

more of like an economic discussion but now it is about identity it is about like literally like what counts as a human being like these people are like like i don't know they huge fucking like wars come into it like it's hugely like a human problem that they truly believe that they are more important because of this weird identity of like nationalities and all of these fucking stupid concepts that it's like it you can't you cannot get through to them because they are actually in another space. Their reality is like bordered and like they have completely completely they bought into all of this baller basically basically. It's kind of, this is like, feels quite separate, but I do think it speaks to, this is something I said to you, Sethi the other day where, was it yesterday.

I don't know. Yeah, well, I think it was yesterday. Okay, so the other day I was in a reformer class, reform. Where we all vote reform. In like a Pilates reformer machine class. And before it started, I was just sat on my thing, just living my life, whatever, like having a little chat with the instructor, whatever, you know, no big deal. Everyone's just in their own head and everyone's just thinking of their own things, whatever. and someone walked in who I recognised as like an influencer

and then someone else walked in and I thought they recognised me. The Russian doll of... It really was... Of fame. Where I kind of... I'm looking at this girl and I'm thinking, I think you know the podcast and you're looking at me as if to say, hey, it goes without saying, it's seem the worst.

And then I'm looking at this other person who I recognise as an influencer that I've seen for years and years and years and they haven't even looked my way. Yeah. And they're none the wiser that I've got my... an eye on them. And it really, I came back to Seffi and I was like, there's something like so kind of, it just cracks open.

The way that we are all, we're in the same room and we are living in a different world in that moment. I'm sat there preoccupied with the woman over there and talking to you in the instructor who's thinking about what's the next 50 minutes going to look like and I'll make sure you don't forget that thing and the music isn't working. And this girl's thinking about,

I wonder if wing is, I wonder if wing is looking at me. Yeah. You know, whatever, blah, blah, blah. We're all so in our own perception that like so much, our whole lives are like, there's not much of it that's based in reality, I think. Yeah, no, I agree.

The difference between what goes on in your head and the life that you're living externally is so, like, literally worlds apart. Like, and it's kind of the thing of like when someone then comes up and says, hey, I love the podcast or whatever. It's like, maybe you can tell, but maybe you can't tell that, like, I really were struggling to get out of the house and like, do this thing today. Or like,

you just don't know that like, I've just had the biggest argument of my life. And now I'm out on the, and like, da, da, da, like, we're really naive to whatever is going on. And like the information that you've been fed versus the story that I saw this morning

versus like the YouTube video that I watched that told me about X, Y and Z happening in this country and blah blah. Like, when you're adding social media in and like, it's wild. The narrative that builds. Because all of that. is about kind of like the narrative that's going on your head.

But then you're also bringing in, they've just been staring at their phone, which has been telling you, telling them time and time again, like all basically re-asserting this narrative that like fucking tailors old as times, immigrants are stealing the jobs, immigrants are killing your babies,

all of this stuff. And I'm not fucking joking. That is what is being fucking said in the, on these fucking things. No, I mean, it literally is. Like it's wild. And these people believe, it. Like they truly believe it and do you know what? They're fucking fuming. They are literally

fuming. So this is why when you're trying to engage in an argument with people that believe these things, it's not like they are coming from a place of like politics anymore of like we're going to have a debate about the two sides of this argument. They're coming from a place of like pure hate. Like they fucking, they're scary actually. Like it's not, it's not an easy task for you to go in. And if you're going in with this, to be honest, like, under the illusion that you're having like a political debate of what that used to be 10 years ago, five years ago, that's not the fucking landscape anymore. We're not talking about rest is politics.

Oh, it's Rory Stewart as a Tory. But, okay, this is kind of interesting. We're not fucking talking about this. This is mental. Like, these people are, like, scary fucking lunatics that have been fed the same, this, like, very, very, like, intense, like, fascist staff. And they, like, they're literally out for blood. Like, they genuinely are.

And even with this person, I find more, not more sinister, but just kind of, like, different, but sinister in its own way is, like, what this person said about having friends that are coming from an angle of, like, the trad wife or, like, choice feminism angle. It's way more, like, they're not consuming, like, a young guy on the internet who's, like, telling you to start the carnival diet and like racially abuse people but they're watching like kind of beautiful blonde women who are like homemaking all of their dinners and like staying at home and like having a kid at 21 in its own way there's there's a yeah it so many things are like so

like almost to the naked eye it kind of has that like British racism thing about it where it's like it's sometimes kind of buried under a few layers of yeah. like small talk and like you know here's a recipe for da da da da da like and it's tucked in somewhere um but it's also extremely it gets very very personal very very quickly so i just think just look after yourself do you know what i was having this conversation about like i was talking to one of my friends who's quite good at arguing back and like having these conversations and like i get so emotional in in like anything especially when like the conversation that we were having was about like sex being different for men and women like the like just all of this stuff I find that

really difficult to talk about with a man as because I think men want to talk about it from this abstract thing of like um to them it's relatively light you know or men and women like blah blah blah blah but to women it's like we're talking about our bodies we're talking about like your validity as a human Yeah, how men, whether they respect you and literally, yeah, see you as human, your reproductive rights, your reproductive health, all of the shit is fucking huge, your role in society, all of this stuff. So I find it like really emotional to talk about it. So I just don't talk about it really with men.

I had a moment the other day where we were watching this show called The Four Seasons. Oh, yeah, I haven't seen it. And it's, yeah, based on the thing. There was just an episode where basically it's like, lovely episode, whatever, it's that really cringe but like also like it's kind of like you know it's got some heavy hitting it's just like yeah whatever the episode basically ends with someone switching on the tv and like they're like oh my god she was watching porn last night turn off the tv and i it fully like sent me i can feel my blood boiling even now i obviously took it to a different place i couldn't help myself but like

is in that place already it hurt me i was like like that woman's body and that woman's body and that video right now. Yeah. Like this woman's body is a punchline to a show that is about like divorce and relationships and like da-da-da-da. And it's like, and I'm supposed to think that like this kind of 50 year old woman is in her hotel room watching pool and like whatever. It's just so loaded and I find the gap of that conversation.

Infuriating. Really, really difficult. And it just, I was just like, I'm so with you. I'm so fucking with you. Like. Because also it's nuanced and it's layered and, I'm. like I'm not like it's not one thing to me no it's really tricky though like I think that we don't I don't personally have an answer for like how to argue with or like friends with differing opinions

because the landscape has changed to when I last had a take on how to deal with my friends with differing opinions like one of my friends who she is left wing but she's more from more of like a conservative um like social work essentially. She was like, you are really bad at having friends with different views. She was like, you need to be able to have an argument with people and like understand their point of view and things like that, which yes, you do. You definitely do.

But we're not in that fucking landscape anymore. We're like the people around you that... Well, it depends what we're arguing about. If you're arguing about whether you think this human being is valid, then maybe not. Exactly. Exactly that. And that is... We're arguing about like is fucking honest.

burger a good place to go for lunch, whatever. Or is Exeter a good uni? Whatever, fine. I could just about fucking cope with talking about Brexit with people. But now it's like, and that was like, I don't know, that was hard in itself. But like, now it's like, oh, I don't, I can't even get into words. I think, I think as well, when we were arguing about Brexit like 10 years ago, it was very much like, the younger generation, generation.

The younger generation, the younger generation viewed things a certain way. Yeah. And the older generation. were like fucking old racist pricks whatever fine i thought ha ha you'll die out and we'll live a beautiful life in this kind of millennial utopia and since like the kind of black lives matter 20 20 days there's been a huge pendulum swing for the younger generation towards this like really sinister right wing very hateful very scary and also mainstream it is it is now not like a marginalised um no this is like a very mainstream the younger generation is like more right wing than it's

been in generations. Like, Gen Z and Gen Alpha are getting so much more right-leaning than we ever were. And that is why I think it also is becoming so much more tense is because we're not arguing between slight different economic differences of Brexit and whatever. And even that at the time felt really emotional to me because it is obviously loaded with so much about like whatever, all of this stuff. It's a different landscape now. But then I also think with, for example, the choice feminism and the trad wife friends, if these are your friends and you love them and how much is that, you know, impacting your relationship?

I really think it's play it by ear. And I also think you, it's about being able to understand whether, like, do you think this is a good person in front of you? Do you like being around this person? Do you trust this person's values and stuff? And maybe they're on a certain kind of six to eight month path of like, I got really interested. to this influencer and she's and then maybe they'll kind of whatever or is it someone that you fundamentally are

disagreeing with on like really big scary issues and thinking about how much that is impacting your experience whether or not you want to entertain this person or not. Definitely. I do think it's about dealing with them

in individual cases because also I don't know it can be really hard to separate it as well from the like i think also that's the thing with it being so mainstream it's a lot of people a lot of good people and also i'm not necessarily saying that um people that have all these horrific like fascist views are bad people because i don't actually really believe in that they're just people that have been fed the wrong information and that's also one of the things that just like again like makes it this binary thing of like they're either with us or against us like it's not that it's literally an information issue more than anything that are if you have there any

And I do think this is needed. And I kind of feel guilty that I don't have the energy in so many ways for it. But like sending the information, the right information their way. But I also think it's fucking really hard and emotional when it's people you care about. Like it's really tough. It is. Yeah. But I do also, yeah, I think it's in those cases where it's like you've got a good foundation.

And you're not disagreeing on whether or not this person deserves to have rights to live or whatever. You're disagreeing on like, you know, should there be an encouraging. for women to be able to stay at home or or have whatever like something that feels maybe like less connected or less big still obviously hugely loaded but like I think when there's room for conversation it's so important because it can really it's the only thing it can be the thing it can be the thing that stops you from going to exeter and changes your path back or gets you into a certain flat and not the one on ditchling road or whatever like yeah you can really steer um like it can just be huge like one conversation with someone and I get it a lot

with like slightly older people and I think I'm quite good at, for example, I was speaking in the whatever episode it was where I was like, I'm quite reasonable. Yeah. I've almost like, oh, well, don't you think, da-da-da-da. And I almost think suddenly when people hear something, it's almost like, oh, well, when you say it like that, yeah, I guess I do agree with you. And like, I guess sometimes I think as well, people are really annoyed about things that they really don't need to be annoyed.

No, this is like the whole thing. Why are they? Do you really care? Genuinely. Oh, I guess I don't really care. Okay, fine. we can all move on. Like, do you really need to feel like, that is it? Maybe I don't. Yeah. It hasn't occurred to them. They don't need to be so furious. Yeah, because also, but that's because

they've been in the fucking chamber, the fucking echo chamber slash torture chamber of just like these endless fucking videos of shit, like reconfirming all this shit. Like, they feel fuming. And then it's like actually, this stuff is like designed to make you angry. Come out of it. Yeah. You're just in your fucking house. Like, you don't need to... You just out for lunch with your friend right now. You don't need to have a be fucking preaching your trad bullshit to me.

Yeah. As much as you can, if you are the person in a situation where you, like, you're not the one in need or you're not the marginalised one that's up, that is life is up for discussion or whatever. It is, please, please, like, just take that moment as much as you

can. Yeah. Because, like, other people do need you to back them. Yeah. Definitely. what a lovely episode Jesus okay we're so sorry about that no no no I think it's fun yeah I think it's good I think it's also like it's relatable

like everyone's kind of got it's a journey people in their peripheries I feel like that took us on the whole thing but all right cool I hope everyone's alright yeah me too we'll see you next week with the Virgin Island Island that I can't fucking wait for because like that will be for you're going to have to watch episode two

which I really don't want to do It genuinely feels like I can't sit down and watch that again. It's terrible. And now I know as well, there's going to be people that now are going to watch it because you're spoken about it. No, no, no. But I think, should we balance it out? Like, if you do watch it, could you send a complaint to Channel 4?

Yeah. Would you mind? Because basically, we were discussing earlier, like, oh, we need to like send an, what is it, like off-cock or something? Yeah, yeah. Like, fucking complaints. Like, this is, this should be taken off the air. It's just, it can't continue for a second since then it needs to be cancelled.

Like, these people are in danger. Definitely. like I'm laughing ha ha no no it's like really bad so like we need to stop this so like we're gonna do complaints and we're going to do this episode next week so okay see you then oh Jesus all right what is that a mission this feels very like oh we're on yeah we are and come see us at oxford yes please yes okay um all right if you don't hear from us if you don't hear from us assume the worst assume the worst