Goes Without Saying - closure, regret & heartache: it’s giving taylor swift’s discography

Episode Date: May 15, 2022

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying that you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this episode I think is a little bit different we're talking about closure and the ending of relationships and how to actually get what you want from when a situation ends whether that's romantic professional any fucking relationship in your life and I think this I don't know we were saying different kind of things I mean we always bring it back to kind

of self-love and I think we kind of did that in a way but i think we've got some real little insights in here and it's a fun episode i had a really good time so i hope you enjoy it so it's the best song on evermore i don't know what that means but yeah i'll give it the wall all good all is good all is well all is good all is well nice um here we go again here we go we're we in our pre-recording day we have recorded so far a book club episode and another episode which i'm sure you would have heard last week now that will be but for us it was a mere five minutes ago it was yeah we're all um time travelers why it's for us it's fun i'm having a whale of a time i am yeah i feel like as we're getting through things i'm feeling a lot more like

confident in i was just saying stuff feels like before when i had a long list of things to do and then i also need to pull four episodes out of my ass it's very stressful whereas now it's like okay things are getting done it's all good yeah we're ticking things off the list slowly but surely the list is becoming smaller and having well of a time as we do it um well how are you anyway so last time i checked i was frantic but right now i'm actually feeling quite i'm feeling okay i'm feeling really okay quite good yeah how are you now other than like she was if you heard last week's episode she was frantic I'm sure you'll hear yeah if you haven't yet heard the episode you'll know when you hear it that's all I'll say yeah there'll be not a doubt in your

mind um yeah no I feel good I feel like it's all good. We're all good. It's great. Also, life is good. Things are good. I'm having a fun time. Things are good. I'm just feeling grateful, as always, for the listener, for the ominous listener in the background of our lives. Always, always. So what's, I can't really say what's new with you because nothing's new. I mean, you had a cookie in that time.

Yeah, I had a cookie. You had a sausage sandwich earlier, which I loved that wasn't like to be honest because i was gone for about five minutes and then i decided i've never been sausages consumed i had um you know shroom dogs they're good i like those i haven't had them in ages i was always quite opposed to shroom dogs i don't know why i was always quite like i don't like them like you can't beat just like a linda mccartney yeah i do like the sausage um different vibe completely different what did i have with oh i'm having at the moment this obviously isn't what i had in the five minute break but i'm quite liking like a bagel with like baked beans like not beans on

toast but like a bagel with beans like open sausage and like avocado quite like on almost like almost a full english but i would say it doesn't quite count yeah no but it's more than your average breakfast it's more exciting than the average oh it's yeah it's a bit more lavish the avo really takes it up just like a notch that sounds good but yeah so that's all that's happened since all right good nice how do you think your year is going by the way oh my god what a terrifying question sorry you don't have to answer going i don't know why it started from january the first yeah i feel really youthful i think i feel really like i feel like this year i'm getting my um life back yeah i feel really like somebody in their 20s i think for the past few years pandemic times we all kind of adopted this like 90 year old fucking person's life non-existent life where it's like oh i'm

watching tv all the time i'm in the house i'm going for my walks i've got a face time with my business partner it's just this weird with my business partner every minute she's calling again but i feel really youthful at the moment i think like i'm kind of like oh my god i forgot i was like a young person in London. I forgot I was a young fucking woman. The best one, in fact. So I feel like this year, and I moved into this house that I'm in now. End of last year, really.

Yeah, and maybe like late November, December. So I feel like I'm really loving where I live. I'm loving my vibe. Getting into a groove. Yeah, just living like a fun life at the moment, I think. Yeah. How's your year going i actually completely agree you took the words right out of my mouth i wouldn't have

described it as youthful but when you say it like that i'm like you know what that does make a lot of sense i agree i just feel quite um active and like excited yeah yeah excited just you know little things going on we've really fucking changed our tune from literally considering the last episode was a few minutes ago you'll die when you hear the other episode i'm actually a bit embarrassed we have fucking changed our tune i this shows doesn't it show that we always say i can't show my face here anymore we always say like emotions are fluid it's like this proves it because 10 minutes ago we were fucking screaming and we also say take what we say with a pinch of salt because if you caught us on a different day we would have been saying something different and this proves catch us in a different hour yeah

catch me at 3 p.m instead of 12 p.m catch us after a sausage sandwich yeah who knows what we'll say god jesus anyway well i hope you lot are having a good year i'm sure you are yeah and also just um you know as we say things change don't they so if you think you're having a bad year right now if you're right down in the pits the only way is up and also just on terms of in terms of like we all took this life of like watching tv and shit like that i also feel like so i was watching i don't know how to say her surname but phineas's girlfriend claudia oh yeah yeah billy eilish's brother's girlfriend i thought you're gonna say billy eilish's twin they do look alike don't they they do and they both really look like my sister's friend so much

it's actually like disturbing like no one understands what you're saying but it's crazy you're gonna say something that we can understand yeah no okay well you have to show me but it shows that billy and claudia look the same because they both look like this girl i know it's crazy you're gonna say something that we can understand yeah no okay we have to show me but it shows that billy and claudia look the same because they both look like this girl i know it's insane who actually listens hey there could be a trio hey yeah so i was watching her vlog of coachella she obviously had i haven't seen it yet it i mean it's not something i would that would usually be on my watch list right um but like it was quite incredible like she obviously is having this insane time like her boyfriend is performing her boyfriend's sister billy is absolutely fucking killing it yeah she went to billy's after party she's having an

absolute whale of a time she's there with all these like people like having the most insane time and it really struck me that at the end of the vlog what she did was she went home with phineas and they watched an episode of the office oh and i was just thinking like and they're filming just like them watching the office just literally like a two second clip and i was thinking it's so funny that you can have the most vastly different fucking lives you can have the most insane night but it just always comes back to watching an episode of a show that you fucking like the office it always comes back to michael scott it show that you fucking like the office it always comes back to michael scott it all comes down to michael scott he would love that everything in

this life comes back down to him world's best boss yeah truly but i just thought it was really funny it's like you've had this like insane insane few days and it came back to an episode of the office yeah it's the met today speaking of and that's always a time i feel like where it's like they're in a huge gown kind of with like a mcdonald's yeah and i just i just almost found like it was sort of like grounding okay so maybe the epitome of having this wild time you could have been doing a shift at tesco's and you could be at with billy eilish and phineas at the fuck at fucking coachella your night still ends the same way it's just like i quite love that and also your mindset could still be like your perspective could still be exactly the same

just a moment of like oh yeah no like everything does come back to michael it does it really does i don't hate it i love it i think it's great yeah anyway what was that about um closure yeah closure i'm excited for this topic actually yeah same i don't know why we've never really i feel like closure is a big thing i just need to get closure with him i just like i'm finding it really hard to move on because i don't have closure i don't think about closure that often the problem with closure is that it normally follows a disagreement between two people for example two people not necessarily being on the same page or two people if they are on the same page being on the page of we're not moving forward in our relationship for example

yeah and then you have two different people dealing with the consequences of that and with that it just inherently means that there will be two different ideas of what closure is and if you even want it as well i think it's um often when you're leaving a relationship it's not about someone might think they have closure and the other person is like i just need to get my closure with them or might not care for closure it's like yeah there's this idea that it should have a like a finite ending it's like most things don't have an ending no like most things don't most things like or not even most things it's very common we've seen it time and time again things have an ending and they start they have an ending they have like a messy little

bit where you kind of slept with them one random night and then yeah i think snip snap snip snap snip snap snip that all comes back down to michael scott as we know it's not it doesn't always have that finite closure yeah so it's almost like yeah one party might not even want it they might want to keep you open as some kind of separate option leave you hanging there yeah which i always think don't go for something i feel about closure often is like in people's minds it feels like um settling things and i think a lot of the time it feels like getting some things off your chest all the things that are going unsaid all the things that are going without saying if you will that's a real michael scott joke do you know what i mean like feeling like you want to get to a good place or or i think for a lot of people it's you want to

be heard yeah you don't you feel a bit like helpless and like it's just unfinished business in your in your head they've blocked you now so you can't even access yeah it's like you're having to email them a long list of all of your kind of like ending thoughts i almost don't feel like it's because in a relationship so often people are scared of losing that thing or even potentially not even relationship in a job or whatever you're so scared of doing anything that's going to scare that thing away that you're going to keep all of your resentment inside you're going to keep all your fears inside when you have it as an ending it's over so okay you fucking open the fucking floodgates then right it's the first moment of truth that you've had in like six months i just feel like that's the that's the moment to bring it

out i don't necessarily think you should do that but it's common that it's like people's form of closure is actually just like okay i'm gonna say all of the things that i wanted to say but couldn't out of fear can i actually um the biggest moment of closure in my life was a big conversation that i had about a year ago now with my mum i remember and it was probably 10 or 15 years in the making i'd be shocked and to be honest i actually would be upset if you didn't remember well i was expecting you don't remember oh were you well i was expecting i was expecting the question i mean it always does come up in a strange way i was expecting you to say the rhythm of can i ask you a question i go yeah you ask me the question i can't understand bullshit then i go and what

about you and then i thought it was going to come down i like asking you questions also i know how to get a good answer out of you so sue me but i've really noticed when editing it's like okay we have a rhythm yeah like that is always the routine something yeah yeah maybe what about you i ask you a question and then i go don't have to answer it yeah and i also sometimes say i preface if i know that it's a big question i'll preface it by saying like it's not tied to your identity yeah perfect just really annoying thing to say to someone anyway go on yeah um I had had all of these I mean I'd had a um I'd had a tumultuous relationship with my mum to say the least in my youth and then for probably like 10 15 years had had all of these emotions and questions and all these things bubbling away at the surface that were never addressed between us and to be

honest a lot of the time not addressed for me you know internally and myself let alone with her and I thankfully got to a point about a year ago where and I couldn't have done this if I hadn't have got to that point and there wasn't necessarily like a breaking point or anything falling into place to make this happen it just kind of happened that I just decided to take things into my own hands and and I invited her to to speak at women in media festival in manchester it's because i was invited to speak no i invited her to have a conversation with me um i basically just said can we chat about x y and z and it really was me getting things off my chest and i i haven't really thought about how much i'm giving here but i think i'm just happy to say whatever because we're at a good point yeah basically what I'm saying is I might regret this so listen up

um and I went into it kind of with the intention of I need to get some things off my chest I need to address some things between us and regardless of what this means going forward the only consequence basically that I can hold on to and that I will know for certain is that I got things off my chest so I'm not necessarily doing this to look for basically there's not a certain look of closure that I'm looking for with you I'm not doing this to save the relationship I'm not doing this to get a certain response from you I'm not doing this to end the relationship blah blah blah i just need to say some things yeah i've really been as as the time has gone on and now we're getting to about it was about a year ago now i'm getting to a place where i can really see how much that day

and that decision that i made changed my life for the better. Like I'm in a totally different place. Obviously still mental, goes without saying, but I think it has healed the relationship and healed so much of me infinitely, like a hundred times over. Wow. But I think the important part and the crux was that i went into it not necessarily looking for that but just saying i can't go on not addressing these things i need to get things off my chest and regardless of what comes out of that is whatever i'm not doing it for an apology i'm not doing it to change it i'm not doing it for anything other than just to hear let my voice be heard and also importantly let my younger voice be heard

because this is if it was kind of a relationship between two random people like an adult relationship that I'd had for example um I would probably feel differently but I think dealing with things that happened when I was a child with my mum it just holds obviously such a weight that I think um like that kid deserved to get their voice heard yeah and I feel amazing for doing that because obviously there are a million different types of closure and it goes without saying like if you're saying that you want closure with like someone that you were seeing but in reality you're just hoping you can like get back into bed with them it's whatever yeah but in this situation i think it wasn't even more than closure it was like being honest about what i wanted and beyond that actually taking into my own hands how i felt and knowing that i i had the power of my own voice like not waiting for someone else to

come to me and be like you know what i've been thinking and um i'm sorry or you know i've been thinking actually blah blah i'm rehashing things only it was only for me like only i could decide to confront it i remember a big thing as well being like you owe it to your younger self now who they couldn't speak back then now you're the grown grown up version of yourself. Now you have the memories. You remember. And now you have the voice and now you can fucking speak.

And I think that was so fucking insanely powerful just to watch someone be like, no, yeah, I'm going to speak now. You thought that a kid couldn't speak. Yeah. Kids can't speak that well, but they grow into adults who can. Oh, no one believes them so fuck you lot yeah i just thought it was amazing yeah i think it's amazing i didn't know and i just i feel yeah go um no please be my guest i didn't know that well i remember like obviously that it was a big thing but you hadn't said like i didn't really know the lingering

impacts of it like i didn't know yeah that you were feeling really good about it now how I felt about it now yeah I kind of thought that yeah it was a great conversation and things were progressing but I didn't know that you felt so good about it now that's so so so good well I think at the time it was almost a time will tell situation like I almost had to settle you can't push yeah you can't push yeah and I had to almost i didn't know how i was gonna feel and i think healing sounds like such a cringe word but if i've ever felt like something is healing it really felt healing like i'll say it was such a healing thing and obviously that takes time but it's almost like as the months have passed it literally feels like the wound is just closing over am i gonna get shivers yes i am but like what the hell that's incredible i'm changed forever i am changed forever there will be you know negative impacts that whatever it's just a part of me and

blah blah blah like but i also just feel it's just changed things it's changed I think I think on one level as I say it took me like um doing something as an adult for myself like do it like making a stand for myself and I think like that's a real act of like self-love how much more cringe can I get no I was on the tip of my tongue I'm not gonna cut in it's self-love no I'm not gonna say it is self-love isn't it it was a real act of self-love to stand up for myself but then it also has benefited the relationship and I think I would I think just naturally as you get older you see your parents god in a hundred different ways the relationship changes throughout your life goes that saying and I think part of that is that as you get older you see your parents as just two human or however many human beings um that are fallible and not superheroes and blah blah blah

yada yada yada if we bring that back but I just feel really at peace with the relationship and I think I feel more this is this is probably a bit cutting it a bit personal now but I think before I felt really like I obviously loved my mum so much but there was so much sadness wrapped up in that like that love almost that love also came with a ton of um anger and sadness and like betrayal and like all of these horrible things was wrapped up in the love and now it feels more like the love can just exist in itself a pure thing yeah still like loaded obviously as all relationships are and especially like those kind of complex and deep relationships like a mother-daughter relationship but it just feels easier because it helped make sense of

things i think this is why closure can be feels easier because it helped make sense of things i think this is why closure can be really important because you can make sense of the point yeah that's the point yeah that's the entire point to allow people to to speak really yeah because i think you're so right by being like it's less about the response yeah it's not really about trying to force them i just i can get closure if they act in this very particular way that i foreshadow them to speak exactly they follow the script i'm saying for them yeah i know and most of the time if you're needing closure from someone it's because they don't follow the script that you want for

sure it's that actually it's 100 often a mess that's why it's like i need to come in and get some sense of this and and i need you to just literally hear what i say because also like you're probably not gonna say what i want to like, you're probably not going to say what I want to hear. Like you're probably not really going to hear it right, all of this shit, but I need to form myself, say exactly my experience. And sometimes you don't,

a lot of the time you don't. Yeah. But I think when you know, I think when you know, you know, like when you know there are things that need to be said, because a big part, I mean, I think I said as well in another episode, I was literally, I was driving down to that conversation thinking have i made all of this up yeah like i

think it was saying it out loud not just to somebody else but also by doing that i had to admit it just meant that i was admitting it to myself which was a big part of why it was also painful was because i still couldn't accept there was just so much you know wrapped up into it do you know what it is it's gaslighting gaslighting it's gaslighting yourself the way you know the society would gaslight you it is because it's yet another person even the child grown up is not believing the child yes it's like all you can do is trust your own experience you know how that fucking child felt in those moments and even now as an adult did i did i make it all up i very highly doubt that yeah it's like get a fucking grip bloody i highly doubt i mean you're

nuts but yeah i highly doubt that child it's like rude to the child it's it's so rude it's completely rude and i think that was the thing it's actually john is it's patriarchal oh among a million other things it's completely patriarchal for sure but of course the woman doesn't believe her childhood self i can't stand it yeah it's fucked up i'm so i'm so glad that you feel like that it's so amazing yeah i feel really good actually i also just feel like my understanding of oh i don't know i feel like my we actually were having this conversation briefly with emin lauren which by the way best day ever yes i was so fucking fast saying literally the best um we were talking about the relationship like mother-daughter relationships and i really feel like i'm at a point as my friends are having

kids and you have an awareness get older you were saying in another episode like i'm the age that my babysitter was i'm the age that my mom was when she had me like those sorts of things that start to creep up as you obviously get older i don't know it's just again it's just healing vibes just i'm just so spiritual well i also think it's really important when i do think it's a thing with growing up where you're that was sarcastic but i feel like you didn't read it i didn't even hear what you said that little bit you didn't read it i said i said that was sarcastic but i don't think you read it like me being like sorry i just couldn't go on with people thinking that i was being serious by being like i'm just

so spiritual no no i meant it as like my journey okay i've just got no laughs that's fine yeah go on i don't know what i was gonna say even i don't yeah god sorry no no take a second just think about it um oh yeah no i think when you grow up a bit more and you get yeah you get to the age that your parents were when they had it's kind of what kind of adult do i want to be and what kind of yeah parent do i want to be and if you can see very obvious mistakes in your blueprints that you have in your life of like oh maybe they made that decision at this age would i have also made that decision at that age and i think it's really i don't know strange confronting but also quite nice to realize like oh i'm my own person and like

yeah there was this blueprint that set out for me but i make my own decisions here acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals.

Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple.

Or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. See, this is how I think I felt for a long time. And I still feel like that now. But I almost feel like I've got this new layer now where I'm like and beyond all of that i will still fuck up which i always knew but almost now i think like i kind of went through a period of being like you know before you have a kid you need to like you know people are having kids and they're gonna fuck up their kids and they need to have get some self-awareness they need to work on themselves and blah blah and i do think those things hold up but i also think a lot of that was a projection of rather than an awareness of all of the different ways that adults or just parents fuck up their children it was also a big part of that was just

a projection of my own fear and my own lack of self-worth and my own lack of um my own like again self-hatred of thinking lack of self-esteem thinking i would be a bad parent really well i think a lot of it comes from our generation i think are really quick to be like my parents did this and this this and this i think we're really good at being able to see where our parents went wrong and i think we'll be really good at making different decisions with our kids and blah blah there's obviously different awarenesses now on like mental health for example things like that i think our generation is good at being like i have x y and z issues i'm going to work on them and i'm going to try not to give them to my kids but i also think we're really good at putting

ourselves down and creating a weird illusion or like weird standard of what a parent what we should be as a parent that just is never going to happen it doesn't exist and i think by saying like we need to work on ourselves before we have kids so true we do but also you are worthy and you are valid and someone would be lucky to have you as a parent stunning of course do you know what i mean like you're not like yeah completely completely i think i'm kind of torn in between like some people would be not like it doesn't it doesn't work for you because like yes they would be so lucky this is the closure episode by the way which is ridiculous

this is the parents and mothers episode yeah but like take just like the standard fucking person in the street you everyday joe yeah yeah everyday fucking jenny i don't know so yeah would oh am i gonna sound like a bitch maybe go on say it but i almost feel like it's like the standard fucking person that just say it you just come in let me get it let me get it let me get it right let me get it right do i believe it before i say it i don't know if i do but let me say it we can air it out anyway i don't know if i think that the kids would be lucky to have everyone someone as their parents i agree i don't know if i do no i agree with that like i don't know if i think like bad people because obviously goes out saying yeah i i think it's almost like there are some people that that should not have

children like i'm saying i'm seeing i'm seeing a lot of fucked up shit in this world you're seeing jimmy salvo documentary i'm seeing crazy things louis CK we said in the other episode I'm seeing a fucking Woody Allen documentary he should not be able to have fucking children um for sure because he's trying to try and marry them I'm not talking to Woody Allen I am Woody I speak directly to you but when I say like I'm talking to people who the kind of people kind of person i imagine in my demographic smart people yeah i'm thinking of the people who have seen the ways that they were parented and can appreciate all of the things that their parents did well but also really have the awareness of all of the mistakes their parents made and feel nervous that they are gonna you know fuck their kid up they're now scared that they have

all the awareness of all of their issues and they're really scared that now they're not worthy of being a parent and i just think but making mistakes not being why the why the parent is so different it's like you are gonna make mistakes you are gonna fuck up your kid in a million ways a million ways you can't not oh my god and also not only are you gonna fuck up your kid in a million ways a million ways you can't not oh my god and also not only are you gonna fuck up your kid in a million ways the society you're birthing them into is gonna fuck them up in a million ways like it's not for sure it's not just um you and a kid in a vacuum that's not what you're you're doing here yeah it's you your issues your kid and a fucked up world if they live that long by the way oh bloody hell climate change best case scenario is you your issues your kid their issues your partner maybe and there may be

issues and a world that we can't even deal with at the best of times good luck like you of course are going to mess up a million times but i think that's just part of it yeah that is part of it has to be otherwise what otherwise it's just pure delusion anyone going in and being like my parents made these mistakes yeah you're not going to make that you maybe will not make those exact mistakes but you can't even oh like god it's hard to even identify your own issues at the best of times let alone how you're going to project them onto a child yeah but then i also think we get too good at knowing all of our issues. We're too, yeah.

I think generationally, I think our generation, especially Gen Z, are really good, maybe even too good, at being like, I'm so fucked up. I've got this, this and this that I'm working on. I think we're good at working on it as well. But yeah, what I'm saying. I think sometimes we beat ourselves up.

Oh yeah. Because we're too aware of like, do you know what I mean? Of the shit that we have going on. as well but yeah what i'm saying i think i think sometimes we beat ourselves up oh yeah because we're too aware of like do you know what i mean with the shit that we have going on yeah i'm i love an awareness hater hater um beating up vibe that's horrid because otherwise you might as well be the depressed person that's in denial you might as well just be the fucking oh welcome to my world but you're not in denial come on in you're not in denial. Come on in. You're not in denial. No, I'm not in denial. I'm just embracing it. Not at all.

Not at all in denial. Okay, I love this message. And I actually, I've got two messages here that I kind of feel like they're like a little iconic duo. They're kind of brothers, if you will. But they're like two, they're kind of opposite vibes. So but they're like two they're they're kind of opposite vibes so somebody said closure was what i call i kind of touched on this earlier closure was what i called my desperate hope that they changed their mind which i just think is yeah i think that's

so relatable i think a lot of people will be like holy shit yeah um but then this other person said learning to accept what you can't change and or changing what you can't accept so yeah so just accepting what you can't change you can't change it you just got to accept it yeah and if you if you can't accept it and you can change it change it and i just love that because it's really um kind of an awareness or like even an analysis of what is in your control yeah and moving forward with that knowledge rather than like trying to mold it into like the script that we were talking about earlier like just kind of torturing yourself and do you know what i mean completely i love that i love that it's just a desperate hope what was it my desperate hope that like that they change their mind yeah because i do think that is um i mean it's the ultimate excuse isn't it

someone's broken up with you and they say do you want to meet for coffee and like we can talk about it whatever and then you every bit of you fucking wants to go because basically you're kind of hoping okay well do you remember that thing from the beginning of when we started the podcast there was that thing that was like if you went to their house for closure why did you shave oh my god i forgot about that it's so good it's like yeah you went to the coffee shop and so why were you shaving your vulva please so fucking true so fucking true why did you exfoliate your whole body please why did you do that for a boy anyway seriously guys crazy honestly i just think that that's everything because i do think

so often people do kid themselves it's such a kidder it's such a fucking kid in situation oh guys that's saying if they're inviting you over to their house past i don't know what i want to put a specific time on it but i'd be suspicious i'm i think always have the suspicion always have your wits about you guys never lose your carry that suspicion close to you also look at your own intentions yeah look at your own intentions here why do you want to meet them again why are you answering their call be honest here you know i also think that's really oh no go on oh go on no you go i think that's kind of really common it's not really closure but it's about people not being honest in relationships with what they want and i think so much of relationships anyway

is about just like being dishonest with yourself and them that no wonder the fucking end of a relationship is because so often things begin with someone putting on an act well just two parties not really saying what they want and more often than not men can be more like for example say something is like okay so this is going to be a casual thing there's gonna be a casual thing they've laid it out i don't want anything right now it's just casual in a hetero situation in a hetero situation um that women are kind of tempted to sleep with the guy keep sleeping with them even though they're saying it's casual and casual in a hope to change their mind it's like okay well if i keep if i keep doing this if i prove that i'm chill enough then they might be my boyfriend and it's like this was never

gonna work that that will not work because you're going in with dishonesty and you're and you're actually um lying to yourself and i don't what i don't see is people saying what i want is a relationship but i'm gonna convince him through this tactic of sleeping with him over the course of five months i'm going to convince him i'm gonna get treated like shit and he'll eventually realize this is that's what they're doing but what i actually see is people saying oh i don't really know what i want i think actually probably i do want something casual it's like you don't you don't yeah because why when he texts you does your heart jump out of your chest because that's not that's not giving me casual vibes or if he said oh i really like you i would like something a bit more serious with you you jump at the at the chance. You'd jump at the chance.

Yeah. But it's really hard, I think, to be honest with yourself. It is, but I think it needs to fucking happen. It needs to fucking happen. Oh,

I agree. You cannot be getting in, well, yeah, I was going to say I cannot, but actually maybe fucking everyone cannot. I think it is a fucking dangerous game to be dishonest with what you want.

You might not even have to share that with anyone but when you can't admit to yourself what you want in romantic situations where you're having sex with people you can't even admit to yourself what you want i mean what the fuck are you doing in this arena it's not um gonna work out well yeah i think it's literally like you need to be almost like painfully honest with yourself you don't need to say it out loud what do you want why are you doing this if it's to convince a boy that you're worthy of them pull back you're barking up the wrong tree yeah i agree and then it's unsurprising that the end of a relationship often it all comes spilling out or you have the desire for it to all spit

it's like oh well i'm going to go and get closure. Yeah. No, you're not. You're still going to try and convince this guy that you're worthy of him. Oh, aye, aye, aye. We're too good for this, guys. We actually are. We're past this now.

Past. Oh, my God. We are past it. What do you... So have you ever had a situation where you wanted closure then? Because I'm reading from you that you're not sure. I was struggling to think this. Oh, sorry, I i did it wrong can i ask you a question yeah um and then i'll come out with something when i was seven at guides really dumb um surely with x y and z you wanted some closure

fuck it uni i'm trying i would that's what my mind jumped to but i'm actually trying to think i don't know if what i wanted was closure at that time i wanted i wanted him back i wanted him to want me yeah and i definitely think there was an opportunity for me there literally this exact example where he had said do you want to a guy i was dating ended it with me he said do you want to come over and we can have a chat about this every bit of me wanted to go and say forget what i said earlier just ignore those texts those texts i don't know what i was saying yeah yeah i would just be really like i can be chill i can be chill i'm actually super chill like honestly like oh my god yeah or say i didn't send any text being like okay well I don't want like it was it every bit of me wanted to see him again and say oh my god I

completely agree with you this should 100% just be casual like this will be great but I knew I absolutely knew that I had to put my money where my mouth is yeah and say I can't do this then because I like you too much yeah to have a casual thing with you and I actually owe myself that honesty with myself and luckily lucky fucking you you get that honesty from me too that I will not put myself in a position hard thing to do so hard and I liked him so much but I literally that was exactly why the closure that I actually needed wasn't from him from me to tell him how i felt in a way or for me to meet him or anything like that he almost didn't really factor into my closure because i knew from him what i would actually get if i met him was i was a regurgitation of the past

few months you just keep going yeah exactly and i knew actually what i needed was to delete his number delete him off everything and forget about him or just like move not even forget because i don't i don't actually mean that i mean literally move on with my life yeah and he's not a part of that life and that's fine um i mean amazing thanks you know what it is a lesson in everything i once desired from others i give to myself now it's the only way because literally in the face of essentially rejection it's choosing in that moment is what decision am i going to make here am i going to choose to essentially volunteer myself to be harmed yeah and used by someone else for for their gain or am i going to choose myself i think also

it is 10 times harder in those moments so if you're needing closure it's usually because something fucking painful has just happened and it's like okay i need to work things out i need to say some things and hear some things i think when it follows a rejection like that it the temptation is to be like well i'm a piece of shit anyway like i just need to fucking i'll just do whatever like i don't really care if i can find something that will kind of relieve that pain even momentarily fuck i'll take it but i think that's the moment to take a step back and be like if i'm acting out of self-love which is the only thing i will act with in this life yeah intentionally then the decision that needs to happen i mean you can't

you can't be a part of my fucking future then like if you don't want the version i want then it can't it can't happen yeah for me amazing i mean doesn't get better than that really does it god closure hey what do i even say yeah quick stretch stretch breaker everybody stretch right now we're doing a little stretch stretch it out stretch oh right let me have a look at what people have said oh no that was the last question box let me look on the current question box everything's our story's a mess today it's just like ask us questions about this and what do you think about this just to tie into what you just said i love that this person said um this is really like

i think a lot of people get a lot from this this person said i heard something once i heard something once colon this is a quote coming up nice this is something we've overheard okay and we've held we've held on to this and we've sent it into stephanie wink nice i heard something once quotation them walking away is closure in itself itself that's kind of that isn't it it's like you've got everything you need in my mind that's kind of it though isn't it it's you know but then at the same time someone else has just said answers for the things done wrong to me and it's like yeah you know what fair enough as well too right but this but this is that that's the scary thing with closure because answers are fucking tricky to get if the person doesn't want to say them that you're not going to get them no and the

walk away in itself is an answer it is and i agree nothing is better than someone being held accountable for the fucking shit they have done to you but we live in a fucked world and it isn't always possible so true but also you can demand answers and be okay with not receiving answers if you knew you had to stand up for yourself and demand the answers. Regardless of if you got them or not. If you feel like you're doing yourself a disservice by just keeping quiet and kind of taking the brunt of it. And maybe kind of like, oh, you're telling yourself like, look, I'm fine. I'm just going to take the high road. I'm the bigger person, whatever.

I'm just going to walk away from this. Let them, whatever, simmer and stew. my nan would always say let them stew love that um so brutal it's so good it's really sassy she's so brutal because i say it she's the most brutal person i've ever met um and she's amazing i think sometimes it's that thing of you tell yourself i'm fine i don't need anything from them i blah blah blah it doesn't even matter i'm not And she's amazing. I think sometimes it's that thing of you tell yourself, I'm fine, I don't need anything from them, I blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't even matter, I'm not even bothered.

Again, not honest. And you're going to make now the grieving process so much harder, yeah, because you're not being honest. If you know that this is a part of what you need is to vocalise how you feel, especially if, for example, you've had like four, five, six months of seeing someone where you've kind of been on mute. Yeah, literally. And you've had like four five six months of seeing someone where you've kind of been on mute yeah literally and you've been censoring yourself you've been

putting yourself through a filter every time you see them then yeah by the end of that relationship you're gonna feel fucking exhausted and i think it is only right that you feel like you know what let me just speak my truth here answers yeah because you've been teaching yourself you've been slowly but surely telling yourself that you're a worthless piece of shit and that who you are is wrong or not good enough for this person. And that your life purpose is to prove

that they would want you. Yeah, but I'm a bit scared that I'm coming off a bit like I'm telling you to kind of call them up and go and meet them. I'm not. I just think however you feel is valid. No, I just think it's um never telling anyone what they can do like like it's just kind of yeah do do whatever do whatever you want do whatever you

want always and definitely don't don't do what's heffing wing tell you no I think the main thing is just like actually think how do you feel like actually think how do you feel because there are so many things where it's like maybe you can meet them for the coffee and maybe you can't meet them for the coffee maybe you do want a casual thing maybe you don't maybe you don't want a relationship with your fucking aunt yeah you just need to give yourself yeah give yourself a space and time yeah you just need to give yourself the space to think what do i want without thinking how can i fucking resolve this situation or what's the quickest route to get them or how can i appease the feeling of rejection how can i turn this into something yeah it's just how do i fucking feel give it space give it time you'll be fine lovely okay wow gosh

come to a natural close it's so ridiculous that this is recorded after the last step i mean what the fuck this has been nice though it's been really nice i've really enjoyed it yeah i have as well i have really enjoyed it i was just thinking about the order that they should come out in and i was almost thinking quite good to get this one out first no because in the other one we talk about merch and that needs to go out merch wise i think that can go out whenever maybe it can maybe it even puts people off buying the merch we're so mental it does I don't know I don't know

anyway anyway go on let's go sling you a rip well if you don't hear from us if you don't hear from us assume the worst assume the worst