Goes Without Saying - comparison & social media fomo: soft girl summer

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on comparison and fomo, aesthetics and the pressure to be perceived, influencer culture, gendered stereotypes and insecurity online. ✷shop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.ukhear more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwingwatch more ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Is it me? Yeah. Come on in. It goes without saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is a conversation

that goes in a direction that i don't think we really thought it would it was supposed to be like summertime fun and it ends up being social media like this is a proper i think we really get into like the nitty-gritty of how we feel about social media especially in terms of summer it was inspired someone asked an amazing question about like the aesthetics of summer and the pressure and we just go on from there i think it's a really nice episode same stick around to the end yeah it's the crap we really do um enjoy i think let's do one of the three of us what like a little of the the guest star oh my god he's so tiny oh that's quite a cute club photo is what is that his name what's his name travis kelsey isn't his name kelsey what's his name his name is travis kelsey that doesn't sound right today well it is right yeah i've got his jacket in the bedroom.

I've got his jacket in my bedroom. All right. Okay. Hi. Let's just get in then. I don't know if you heard any of that preamble but we were just getting ready. We're talking about Travis Kelsey as you heard. It doesn't really sound like that's his name but yeah i guess it is his name yeah we're recording once again in person one microphone between two but kind of between three because so me and wing are leaning into a microphone and there's ozzy in prime position so you might hear some sniffles he's very much center stage he really is also if you're on our crux club on instagram thank you so much and you would have seen um him looking so cute on there we've been posting pics voice notes etc keep tagging us in your 11 11 stories yeah yeah which is the best thing ever we're in a great phase we are we i said are you like we're in a great phase i feel like i

feel like we're on level five yeah it's like i don't know what that is but it's like yeah okay we're that feels right we're on level five of this game whatever the sephian wing universe is and today marks the first day of the brighton of a brighton summer brighton summer bonanza i'm really excited so basically i got here last night i'm here for the whole of june i moved into my house oh my god it's so's so nice. I love it. I love my room. I can't wait to see it. Yeah. As soon as possible, you can come over. Oh my God, it'd be so nice. And I'm loving it.

And we're immediately putting you to work. Yeah, immediately. Nothing I'd rather do, to be honest. Me neither. Honestly, it's perfect. One thing I will say, I don't know how you feel about this. So here's what I'll say,

and then maybe this will get cut if we disagree with the angle that i'm taking yeah so we've kind of discussed this but like not deeply oh god i'm a bit scared it's not that it's quite fun okay i mean it's really fun but i almost guys i'm proposing something to you harry i now speak directly to you i'm suggesting something and i'm gonna make you beg for it what because it would be a it would oh yeah you see where i'm going okay so yesterday i'm gonna make you beg for it sorry well it's like if we're doing it i really want to know that like one person cares well if we're gonna do this i think we need to know that a lot of people want it i'm not doing it for one person okay fine so we need a couple of you so come forward if you want come forward make yourselves know it's a bit

of a lot to do for one person i would say fair enough yeah it is it is we basically yesterday were like i've got a bad idea yeah should we do an episode every day in july yeah alongside the youtube launching so if you are in this universe which you are harry if that sounds of interest to you you will know that our youtube is launching first of july we thank you to everyone who's subscribed you can go and subscribe the links in our crux club once again but to add to our workload we're going to yeah record to the fun a podcast is it always doing every day in july well i might be going on holiday every day so we might have to not every day sorry i might be going on holiday in july so i am definitely going i might be to amsterdam and lisbon hopefully

so i won't see you at all then no you will we will because i can record in both of those oh right and our holidays might overlap yeah that would be ideal so let's get a bit of pre-recording in but yeah so it adds to the it does if you want. Really, really scream and shout from the rooftops. Let us know. Make us feel really like loved and adored. And then we'll think about it. Okay. Almost what I'm seeing is when we do Podmas, we have the most fun. Like it's literally the most fun thing we could ever do when we're just in it. Yeah. And a summer bonanza. I mean, it sounds really good to me. It's our brand. Summer holiday with Sephian Wings. Sephian Wings summer bonanza. mean it sounds really good it's our brand summer holiday with sephian wings sephian wings summer bonanza that sounds nice yeah so you've got a one-way ticket the youtube's one-way

ticket to the pits literally the pits should we say the really funny name for the tour we're not doing it yet yeah so we're not doing a tour but no but yesterday we were just discussing it it's almost that's our number one thing whenever we have like a strategy meeting with our management number one has it happened once yeah but i feel like we do them quite a lot just we internally have them all the time of just like what do we want and what are we doing but we number one thing that we want is a tour to come and see you in real life and do you want to say the hilarious thing that you thought so we were saying yesterday we saw someone had said the pits inspired by us talking about the pits all the time when you're down bad you're in the pits down bad crying in the gym in the pits always but and then we were like the pits tour is

funny the pits tour is iconic but then i said quite funny to do the nobody's coming tour it's so good it's so good it was really just a nobody's nobody's coming tour i love that it's so good it was really just a oh it's nobody's coming to i love that it's iconic so push for it was it was it yeah and how are you just to end on that you're talking to me i was talking to them but also yeah you can take it well actually i have got something to say so god okay so the last episode if you have listened oh yeah i did cry in that episode or i almost did or something happened there was a shakiness in the voice it wasn't very nice um but i basically as soon as we recorded i was like hate that episode i absolutely hate it like i don't want to do that and then the next day i was like oh i think i might regret that episode a little bit and i don't

regret it because i feel like we did say a lot of good things and it was a great episode and you guys did seem to love it yeah but I think I learned a lesson for myself in that when I'm feeling really hormonal and in that like oh like almost I don't want to be seen state I do need to or just I think it's a good lesson in life to be like actually know when to call it of like maybe that shouldn't have been recorded me like even though it wasn't anything bad it's just like i don't want to put myself in those positions again yeah so i kind of regret that episode but i also kind of think it was nice but also something i always weird to come in now being like hi hey something i always say as well is like there is an aspect to it of like learning to be vulnerable and like the kind

of misplaced like almost we know there's a preoccupation with weakness in the chat yeah yeah there's a concept of i don't want to be seen as weak coming from you which is which is why i think then it gets confusing because i think you want to um you want to be vulnerable and you want to create something good and you want to be honest and you want to like give I think I can do that but that exactly of discomfort like that makes you then not call it when you should totally because also I don't see weak vulnerability as a weakness like I'm not on level one um humanity like I don't think that's true at all i feel like there's so much vulnerability in this podcast not in your right mind i think that feeling

of recording when it's like i had i just feel like i hadn't had that feeling in a while where i'm like i'm pushing myself to my limits here and i really shouldn't be i yeah i just think i should have called it actually should it's a shame so but i hope you enjoyed that yeah at my limit well yeah so how do you feel about that i feel okay with it i think i learned from it of like okay like i'm don't have at all a problem with crying on a podcast but you know yeah i think i um is it all right yeah yeah it's just a text come through he said reform will be nice it will be nice it will be nice i need to remember to leave you do what what time do you have reformer uh it's

at three so i'll probably leave at like 22 20 okay cool no yeah i'll probably leave in 10 minutes yeah i was gonna yeah an hour an hour and 10 um so we've got loads of time yeah so anyway should we yeah i feel like we're in a really good phase and i feel like the summer is gonna be fun for all of us involved yeah i'm really excited but yeah that sounds good one what we can do the whole of july i don't know it's a bit can't do 12 days because that doesn't make any sense that makes 12 days of july we could do kind of 14 day two week hauls kind of a 10 day yes summer holiday yeah you could do a 10 day summer holiday that's quite nice like 10 days is like it's not it's not too short it's not too long famously yeah exactly like you you get nice you're refreshed and feel ready to come

home yeah maybe we do a 10 day summer holiday does that work 10 days in a row yeah it's our 10 day summer yeah it's a summer holiday i mean it a row? Yeah, it's our 10 day summer. Yeah, it's a summer holiday. I mean, it's quite weird, but oh well. Oh God. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what you think. Yeah.

All right. Lovely. Yeah. We're talking about summer. Yeah. Once again, we're carrying on from last week. So. Yeah.

But in a nice way. Yeah. Not on the same tone, but on the same theme. Yeah. Yeah. Should we look at so this one we're gonna look at what you guys have written yeah so let's have a look let's have let's have a look also just while you have a look love to see that everyone's loving the longer episodes so much it seems to be unanimous maybe even too much joking right okay so we asked on the story summer struggles question mark

and you guys said let's find a good one go where your heart takes you yeah okay so summer struggles and i just thought this was an interesting concept we didn't really touch on that much in the last one this person said that their summer struggle or one of their summer struggles because i'm sure you've got tons because look at us we all do they said feeling like i have to get loads of aesthetic vids and pics or none of it happened and i just feel like the concept yeah of like pics or it didn't happen culture is really the pits the pits and um i think it really um thrives in summer it's kind of the warm environment the humid environment really allows that culture to thrive of like feeling like you need to prove what you've been up to

almost taking the phone mode like to another level i almost feel like pics and it didn't happen do you know what i mean like if there are pics it kind of didn't happen like what i see more more often is that when something becomes about taking photos or videos or i'm gonna make a tiktok of this day or whatever it is you're not really having that day like it is a different thing we've known from filming things that when you are in the midst of filming something it takes so much like to actually be like i'm like i'm gonna it just changes the day completely basically and i feel like one of one of the worst feelings in the world is having a really nice day and maybe that or like you're at I don't know a gig or something and there's someone trying to like film you the whole time and all the stuff it's

like can't we just be here and sometimes I feel like such an old boomer that I'm always like phones away like it's off thing no phone at the dinner table but it does take so much of it away it really does and I think um yeah okay if I'm seeing someone's stunning summer day on Instagram afterwards it tells me something about that day which they were there but they were also partly living in the in their camera roll looking at oh mate I'll post that one that'll be good for a dump that one on the story and it to me has a massive sadness around it it sounds sad when you talk about it like that it's bleak to me i think yeah that's so true but i don't think it's that way all the time i think sometimes

or like most of the time whenever i've like filmed something in a day or like remember i've said this recently to you seffy and i don't know if i said this to you guys but i was it last summer must have been i was really having the time of my life and i was posting loads because i was so happy yeah and i was saying the other day to seffy that maybe i was a little bit manic but i was like yeah but that's fine i was so so happy and like when i look back at those videos now like i was like on tiktok like multiple times a day like posting like random shit and just like loving it so much and it didn't take up the whole day at all yeah i was really i've never been more like in my life having the best time and i also was like capturing it in a really fun way i think because i felt no pressure to do that yeah i think the pressure around like what that

person said of like pixar it didn't happen vibe or like being in a day i'm feeling like okay but i'm gonna film something or like being in a day and being like i need to make sure i've got pictures for a dump or whatever i think when it's coming from pressure it's going to feel bleak but if it's coming from um you quickly pull your phone out and like take a cute picture of your friend kind of smiling and that goes in your dump or whatever in two days time and it's all kind of i think there can be a bleakness but at the same time there can be a purity in it i definitely don't have the friends smiling 100 but i i also think when i think of my most happy moments there is no urge really to share that with a load of people essentially that i don't know and aren't really thinking about you like there isn't i don't

and aren't really thinking about you like there isn't I don't see like if I really trace back to my happiest times there is no bit of that that I feel um compelled to be like oh and I want to show this to someone or like prove this to someone I feel like it's that it exists in the purest way and it would detract so much for me to be like right okay instead of seeing you smile I'm going to get out my phone and take that and in the back of my mind I'm thinking slide three of a dump oh horrible are you you're taking it but I think there is if I'm filming a clip of something i think there is some i think we're kidding ourselves if we think there isn't some framing of social media going on in that image yeah i also think though there's a huge part of it where like i've gone long periods of my life without having any evidence or recollection of what I've done and like hiding

from a camera or feeling stressed in a from a camera or not feeling like I'm worthy enough to take a photo of myself or what I'm doing or um not honoring the moment and like capturing it and then you look back and it's like whoa i wonder what i did that year i have nothing to reflect on and i think a huge level of stress obviously comes from obviously we touched in the last episode on like um negative feelings about the way that we look obviously a huge concept in summer generally but i also think that adds a huge aspect of like stress and pressure when it comes to filming your day or taking pictures of your day or capturing a moment or whatever because it adds like why is there an observer observer of this

and observe it why is there an observer like seeing your day with the observer's eye is so strange but what if you're the observer and i think there's something really special about like And I think there's something really special about like when when it's pure, I think it can be really special to like really own all of that space and like take up all of that time and like really be the center of your universe for like two seconds. And that's iconic. Yeah. Yeah. I love that being the center of your own universe. Yeah, that's everything. But I don't

for me at all see that like I don't I think I that's my life I'm the center of this thing and I have all of you're so I've got yeah the photos of whatever on my phone or I've got my journal and all of the stuff and my own memories which let's be real my memory is quite bad yeah I've got that but I the last thing that i'm doing or makes me feel oh i'm there's no urge in those moments to be like i'm gonna show this to these people that follow me yeah this is why as well when we had that big conversation about 11 11 yeah when i was really like um drilling you of like what would you genuinely be compelled to share what would you genuinely feel moved to share like what is what is what are you wanting to give in that way that would be fun for you not just like sustainable but actually enjoyable yeah like i don't just want something

that it's like oh yes i feel when you're active on instagram and tiktok now whatever it's like no we're having fun with the stuff that we're making and the things that we're doing yeah and we feel really good about sharing it um because i think yeah sometimes i i don't know i think we have really different experiences of it because i never ever ever anything i've ever shared i've always felt really good in it or I've always felt I've never ever like to me posting isn't the bleak part the the only thing that gets me down about social media is like the looking at other people which I'm not really in at the moment yeah that's see I find the bleak bit to be the desire to share my life I feel like it waters down the reality like there are so many ways that don't

which is why I genuinely loved when I started my doing my uh sub stack newsletter thing I felt like that was a real way that I was like okay I'm sharing what I genuinely like this feels you were moved to share it felt creative and like this is um me putting it in a way that feels meaningful to me but I don't know like it feels like it um is watering it down like I'm at like as much as there is there are like you can't deny we've been raised in a culture where it's like we have been trained to post on social media and I do we all see things we've all changed the way we take photos for example like now with the gen z look is kind of it's zoomed in and stuff rather than like a landscape um photo of everyone with their hands on their hip like it's a we've all learned these aesthetics and we do see it see life through them

like i think if you if i was to pull out my phone now and take a photo of you in aussie it would look different than it would 10 years ago because i've I've adapted to like the aesthetics and I think there is something about that that like waters down the like purity of it that I'm capturing my life through like trends and styles of that like are essentially made to be posted so I kind of think I get this pressure of like the pressure to like have an aesthetic summer but then I also think to me nothing sounds nicer than which is kind of the opposite of what we're doing of like we're gonna record every day how would you feel about recording every day and launching a youtube channel and having your face class all over our instagram but that feels real

good that feels real yeah what I think for me i think that's the hunt yeah is i'm always with you trying to find what would feel real yeah whereas i what i don't find real is i'm at um i'm at a picnic with my friends whatever summer activity and i'm saying i'm kind of filtering the day through this weird thing of like and i'm gonna post at the end of it that's what i don't like but is that because you're adding the there's too much of an awareness of the posting because it's almost like you could go through your day film random bits or whatever enjoy your day and then at the end of the day be like i'll just post whatever i've got here like string something together but if you wouldn't find it enjoyable i wouldn't yeah well then i wouldn't that's the end of the yeah yeah i wouldn't and you actually don't find it enjoyable

do you i know you don't know because there have been so many times i'll be making something and you'll be like oh sorry blah blah blah and i'm like no this is the time of my life which is why we're a perfect um duo i find the you're my muse i find the construction of it takes away from me of the day whereas you feel like yeah to me it doesn't feel creative to me at all it feels but it's so is draining to me but it's so creative it's like you're putting your life to music and like getting us in a nice palette and like i actually said this was really i don't think we've ever said this go on on the pod you're getting a shout out here matcha diaries there was a video oh yeah this was divine so divine that was divine yeah there's a gorgeous

gorgeous video i don't know on whose account it is it might just be on the matcha diaries tiktok yeah um of leo was it i met leo in amsterdam hi leo there's a gorgeous video of you when you were a baby like so basically it set the scene i'm just scrolling through tiktok whatever and i saw this really beautiful essentially childhood footage of leo from the match diaries podcast on their tiktok whatever blah blah blah so gorgeous so gorgeous and i remember saying to you it really is you're watching somebody be filmed through the eyes of someone that loves them yeah like the camera has such a loving eye in this which is a term we keep going

for now so now i always keep saying the loving eye the loving eye and we said it to freya the other week of like really what i would love is like and i think we do have it currently with like the short form videos and stuff that we're making and i think generally the podcast has it too it has a loving ear sometimes we would say like when you're editing you can kind of get the hateful ear where you start thinking like wing shut the fuck up wing like oh it's so annoying it's the worst feeling in the world i rarely get the hateful ear um and sometimes i'll go into editing i'll be in a bad mood and i'll think right let's edit the podcast and within 30 seconds i'm like i love this podcast which is a good podcast best thing to put on to cheer you up

to be honest it really does it i'm sorry it really does yeah um but yeah the loving eye really was inspired by the matcha diaries and it's something that i think about all the time with like anything that we any visual to what we do you get comfy as you do cool good boy i really want there to be a loving eye which i think we have sort of adapted our filming style recently we we're filming it one right now and we have also started calling it the god shot it's up in the sky. Yeah. We sort of film very high up and like far in the distance rather than doing two shots of like our faces and like flip between them. Like a classic.

That's the studio shot. Shot. Yeah. But here we're doing a bit more of a like at home. It's like you're on my sofa. Fly on the wall. Like it's it. And that feels more loving. And there's definitely a huge creativity in that.

And you're amazing at making things. Thank you just are completely oh thank you and i don't see any bleakness in that in making things stunning that is well it's making you money i'm not saying that anywhere i think that's absolutely divine and i'm it's just perfect um the thing that i i think there's a huge difference of like that's why I love I'm drawn to the podcast and the YouTube feels great if we can make it us and special and all of that what I don't like and I feel that there's the pressure to to do this weird social media thing is almost like yeah at your birthday at the concert at all these amazing moments where you should be there and like in it there's in the back of the mind this idea of like capturing it for let's be

real people that like literally don't give a shit and i think so many people and just so much of women's time is completely wasted with this like self-curation and like making their lives look perfect and making themselves look perfect for my mum's phrase the imagined audience of people that literally flick through it in two seconds and you're measuring the likes of it and all of this stuff and it's a complete waste of time and it's completely gendered and yeah there's an amazing thing if you feel creatively inspired on social media but i think that is not the common experience and it's not what most people are doing on social media it's more just i i see it as ruining beautiful moments of your life in exchange for some likes

which i think is really horrible do you get that i do totally get it i do totally get it. I do totally get it. I think as well, it's all, I guess it's as well, because social media is so universal, a lot of people are on social media and yet there are like weird, there's an intimacy to it that's like, people do kind of have their own habits or their own relationship to it, even though it's something that's like,

excuse me. Ozzy, Dougal, come up here monkey moo monkey moo writes for the daily bugle he can't help it oh my god that's really him licking into the mic ozzy scooch oh boy yeah i think as well i can't why i don't want to say this i feel like it's going to sound like i'm lying no well no just say it anyway but i really mean it i i'm sure part of the reason why i um okay it's so complex and i'm sure no one take us on the journey yeah no one really cares i okay so i feel like obviously like when you're feeling shit or whatever when i'm feeling bad i'm not compelled to share yeah generally i'm not really compelled to share because part of me feeling bad is probably me being quite self-critical

so then i'm going to feel like well yeah i obviously can't share this like i need to hide it like yeah when i feel bad i feel shame and i feel um i feel ugly and a waste of space and it's like well no one needs to see this yeah cover it up cover it up so then when i'm feeling happy i feel a really i just feel genuinely compelled to share and there was a part of what you were just saying when you're talking about like um posting for other people or to measure likes and i think part of one reason that i don't feel bad on social media when i'm posted or whatever is because i don't care or look or notice no likes and i think that would make me probably feel quite bad if i was looking at likes but i almost i do just find

it like purely redundant kind of you know when it like, how you think isn't always how you feel. So like, you might know that it's not the best thing to do scroll on TikTok before you go to bed, but like you feel like doing it, so you're going to do it sort of thing. And someone might say, you know, you know likes are meaningless or whatever. So it doesn't really matter, blah, blah, blah.

But you still feel like they are meaningful. I think it's like, not even that you know they're anything. It's like, it's like whether you seek them out or not they're right there like they are but like they don't mean anything no but they don't and also i think we have a privileged position of like now that number is quite high like it's almost like yeah but still people would be like it's not enough well like almost or you could measure like oh so this post didn't do as well as this post so what does that but that's meaningless i think it's now it's just like a lot of people feel that way

which is why i hate this place yeah but i don't feel that way so i don't hate it for me does that make sense selfishly no totally and also i agree in that i don't particularly necessarily measure my thing isn't about like stats or numbers or anything like that which is it's nice to get them but I also think mine is more about like the sickeningness of curating an image that is not real and I don't I think I don't value it I'm not particularly visual in that way like I just don't yeah to me I see a lot of women wasting a lot of time basically okay acas powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend nature i've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay.

These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com. But it's not 100% of the time not at all and there's nothing it's not nothing's black and white like I yeah love so much about what social like I grew up in this place like I literally love so much about what it is and I love women sharing and I love seeing people's lives and I love all of that but for me when I'm at the beach with my friend or it's my friend's birthday party she's about to blow out her candles

the last thing I want to do is film her or be recording that I want to be in it I think for me it takes away that it just does to have a camera but then what about the other day when we got Freay of those donuts and there's now loads of funny pictures of us with like a huge basically the whole thing looks like it's on fire that's like that's a hilarious photo yeah and i didn't really yeah it didn't take away that i didn't even really notice that we were having i didn't know i didn't filming or i didn't i'm glad we have that hilarious picture where the table looks you know what i mean and i think that to me is more the thing of there are instances and i'm i actually think it's something

maybe it's a muscle that it get that grows or maybe it's just something that ebbs and flows in life these things go up and down but i think it's the self-critical vibe that makes it feel stressful and sad because i think when you're not self-critical you don't even notice oh he wants a blanket oh cutie you spoiled boy oh that's cute that's what he wants it's kind of june sandworm kind of needs to get comfortable now yeah oh i can't remember i was like if you're not self-critical it's fun sort of thing yeah and it is and there can be so much fun like i think i have fun in the moments where we're recording a video and that like it's a youtube thing or like this thing filming there's

a camera filming us now i'm but that's really really intentional exactly which i think is a different thing what i think there are just there are i think there are there's undeniably so much it just completely changes it basically having a camera there i think in in these beautiful moments did it change freya's no not in that instance because that's a hilarious photo we got one hilarious photo but to me and such cute photos of her blowing out her thing and i'm so glad we got that i'm so glad but oh i don't look like it undeniably changes it but i'm like i think that situation was undeniably not changed um i'm not sure about that instance but i do you know what i mean

i do in that instance but i can i just i have always felt like this so i just there is a an uncomfiness yeah with it there just is that i really feel like that when i feel bad in myself and i'm not now saying oh you poor thing is that because you feel bad but to me i'm like well yeah when you feel like you're not good enough to have the moment no it's not that it's that i am in because I think it's when it's in my happy moments and I feel like I'm taking away from it like okay totally there's that's horrible to be feeling bad and be posting that's horrific or be feeling like um that's awful but I I think what I'm okay this is like a bit of a weird example but this is a thing we've spoken about before i'm okay this is like a bit of a weird example but this is a thing we've spoken about before where i think like for example look you might disagree with this i don't know go on but like

for example when i watch people's like videos of them getting like engaged it's like this moment where you're getting engaged and it like means a huge amount to these people but the first thing they do is like they're filming they're them facetiming all their friends and there's cameras there and they know they're being fit like it's a huge um tiktok basically this moment and for me personally that would take a huge amount away from it like that would be yeah i completely get you want some images of that moment but i think the culture that we're in now it has completely changed and these people are thinking about the views they are thinking about the song they're going to put under it they are thinking about the caption whilst that moment is happening and that to me is dystopian is there i think there's a huge part of it for you correct me if i'm wrong

that's about the concept of social media being not a medium that you think is pure, pure or like not necessarily not valuable, but like you look down on it. I don't know. I think you look down on like the form of social media. Well, I think so much of it is the most mundane, like form of consumption, I think. But like, for example, listening to a podcast feels pretty active.

Watching some things. watching so all the things you like yeah yeah yeah no but this is my perspective like i for me listening to a podcast so yeah no things are like is really active watching stuff really active reading obviously really active all of these things i'm fully in them scrolling is my most turned off state i can be that's my most passive that i am really in life like that I've been scrolling for an hour like fuck how did I get here so for me I don't feel yeah maybe that that is like um a place that I want to be that I like it's even though I think there's so many great things there and there just are and like people love it that's yeah I get it but for me I don't feel that

I'm adding worthwhile stuff because i feel like it's just like a pot of swirling but why would you not be adding worthwhile stuff because i know how the state i'm in when i'm consuming it like there are so many worthwhile things and there's literally like you can scroll through instagram and see amazing things but a lot of it's shit the vast majority of it is really diluted it is um but i also think there's you're not gonna like this but i do think part of it is because there's obviously social media and like the industry of social media is gendered and i think there's a huge stigma around it being like a women's space and women making things and it's like women looking cute in nice dresses that there's a part of that to look down on i do think that's worthwhile i think you things and it's like women looking cute in nice dresses that there's a part

of that to look down on i do think that's worthwhile i think you do think it's worthwhile but i think there's a part probably in most people internalized in us that we feel that maybe it isn't worthwhile because i think it is that's the bit that this of social media that i have yeah we've all grown up with that like that is um that's the bit that we know like yeah we all grew up watching zoella and queen literally queen we all that's the bit that we fell in love with that keeps us around and now what i feel like it more is is like instagram's just a marketplace and tiktok is just it's just a marketplace it's just it's like whether or not it is literally an advert that you're scrolling past that's like an ad even the content itself is ads like it is a completely different landscape now

and whilst there is so much amazing stuff like there is you can make an ad amazing and valuable and all of the stuff yeah maybe i don't feel like it's as worthwhile as I feel like this is a proper conversation that like has value and we're talking to you and we're like unpacking stuff and like and I also feel like a huge part of social media is like self-representation which this feels like you can get like a really rounded and like valuable insightful and real presentation of two people whereas I feel like on social media whilst you can still do that i think it's just not the form that i would choose to do that in i think as well something we've realized is you're much more comfortable with long form content yeah and even like that then also makes sense for like your sub stack where it's like you're holding someone for

like 10 minutes while they're reading something with you or like you're sat here for an hour having a conversation and we're really thinking yeah but we often have the conversation in like short tiktoks where you're like am i giving anything yeah what is this and i think yeah maybe i don't value it i think you don't value like a short moment with no with someone like the short the kind of fleetingness of it i don't think i do really that undermines it for you and also i feel like that's the sort of tension that i of it I don't think I do really undermines it for you and also I feel like that's the sort of tension that I have where like I know that basically to be able to do the thing that I love to do which is this you have to have a presence in that place which I obviously

with this conversation in mind you might have even been thinking it that is a very conflicted thing like to be yeah short form video which is why i'm so grateful for you because you do love making it and you're great at making them thanks i don't feel compelled i feel there's like yeah for me it just takes away so i love to basically not go on it and then you just make it all yeah that's perfect i'm happy to live it i'm happy just to live it and be here with you you're my muse and you're my um what's his name josh safty from uncut jams yeah uncut jams she's my queen she is i love her i literally love her so much but like i really love just to be in it and it's such a privileged state where like someone else

can curate it. But that would be my dream that I just never have to look at this place. Oh, you don't? And it can all go out. And I can just live in my actual life. I do wonder though, like, so for example, why we started doing 11.11

was call back to that conversation where I was like, what would you be genuinely compelled to share? And wouldn't it be nice if every day at 11.11 we posted a photo or a video or a little selfie or whatever show where you are what you're doing whatever every day at 11 11 here we are we're all thinking of each other isn't that sweet and that feels really authentic and i yeah then wonder if there are other things like that that you would be genuinely compelled to share

or if over time you might slip into something that feels do you know what i mean like i just think that is i think you're so right with the long form content of like this feels so everything like i am here it just feels like i i just value that this content like i would i would love this and all of that um and i think youtube is going to be a huge one of like i really value that spending the time with someone yeah and i and i think that form is um great it's really interesting yeah i think social media is so complex and i think if people think about their own relationships with it which i mean so many people have said in the dms like social media the pressure over the years like it's a huge huge theme there's so much that because it's such a passive act and like it's such a huge part of our lives that we just sort of like your friend you're

you're sitting with your friend they go to the toilet you bring out your phone you just like scroll through some shit you put it away and you can't even think of anything you've seen like it's such a weird part of our lives it's kind of this weird underworld that i just think of course it's so complex people and then you add in the level of like and you have a profile and you're trying to like oh it's just fucking weird it is just weird i would like my advice would be to anyone feeling something something we used to do like i would say this to you is why don't you take four days off do you remember i love four days and i would say that to you like if you're feeling like social media is maybe not making you feel so great you're not gonna listen to me this is

going straight in one ear and out the other like you've done the kind of time limit thing you turn it off oh that's nothing you've deleted the app you go on safari like whatever i know you're not listening to me you don't give a shit i get it well you can't even listen to yourself you make you say i'm not going to say and look it's really werewolf tied up it's like don't unchain me tonight i'm gonna beg to be unchanged no matter how much i beg and scream don't let me back on instagram don't let me back on tiktok but i think the advice would be like if you're feeling a little bit like there's already enough pressure for example in summer to like be doing things be seeing people be whatever having fun and then you're also feeling the pressure of feeling almost disconnected with your presentation on social media that's how i'm kind of seeing it is like you've been disconnected from

yeah yourself in that space and a bit like kind of not in alignment with yeah your yeah with it and with who you are on there who how you're seen on there it's feeling a little bit jarring and a bit like i'm not sure if that's me yeah take four days oh i love the four days i don't know why i just remember you pitched it as like a long weekend or something and it was like always kind of bank holiday why don't you take four days off of social media and then come back and i i do think and i think my agenda that i've been pushing somehow in this whole episode my craps is this is totally my own personal selfish experience but social media feels bad for me when i feel bad because when i feel bad everything feels bad yeah and so if you're feeling bad with social media or you're feeling bad just generally with whatever you've got going on your friends your work your relationship whatever blah blah

blah i mean it's the last place you want to go that's the last place you want to go and i would just say why don't you take four days to do a nice thing every day like yeah um every single day for the next four days i'm going to listen to my favorite song in the shower or i'm going to literally sit down and have a cup of tea and like watch something or just whatever like for four days i'm gonna make an effort to feel good and at the end of it doesn't matter how i feel about social media or my work or whatever it's not really about that it's not about fixing how i feel in my job or fixing you know i've got fomo whatever blah blah it's just giving yourself four days yeah there's a there's something in the four-day theory i love it yeah the four-day theory just here like

you might be a different person at the end of that four days yeah also i think part of the problem is i think this is a thing i sort of identified with like i was feeling really sort of like fuck social media a few years ago where i was like what i hate it here it's a hellscape this is a nightmare god it is i was like this place is is doomed and i despise it and i sort of realized I don't like at that point I was like I don't think I've ever really done like a day without going on Instagram or Twitter or YouTube or one of these things I actually wouldn't count YouTube in them but like or I haven't done a day really in like my whole life like that like maybe they've been my living memory yeah I almost couldn't remember the last time and I tried to do a day and I was like fuck a day is like kind of maybe a bit like hard like

when they're all on my phone and stuff it's like oh the muscle memory is fuck it I've been awake for five minutes and I'm why am I on here like it's just so it genuinely is an addiction which is so horrific yeah and I think something to be taken seriously so I mean I did I went so long like it was so nice like I the four days is amazing but I genuinely like when it gets the point where it's like I'm not even compelled like it doesn't it feels like it would be I don't know when it's been like right okay it's been like two weeks since I've been on any of these things there just feels like there's so much space and i think that's one of the problems that i feel with social media i feel a claustrophobia of like claustrophobic darren yeah and it's like there's just so so many angles and everyone's got it yeah like it's all there so

much and yeah getting that space from it is i actually think crucial like if it's a place that you want to be i do think getting some space away from it to kind of remember it's not everything like this place you don't owe a presentation of yourself it's ketchup to a beautiful meal it's a condiment to your life and to be honest it's not even ketchup it's like ketchup is quite important ketchup yeah that's like a staple it's kind of a sriracha mayo do you know what i mean it's like a really big deal to you okay it's a uh it's something you could go without but you do like it a bit it could be nice yeah but this isn't your bread and butter no it's definitely not my bread it's not your spaghetti it's not your pasta this is not your potatoes your it's do you remember

ages and ages ago we were talking about like so this is like deep cut probably high priestess days but we were talking about like it used to be that social media was who said this zoe sir yeah queen and queen of social media she knows oh she knows she knows she invented the whole fucking social media it's her mark zuckerberg yeah well she did a lot for it jobs and zoe suck she's so powerful that all her friends and family still have careers like years years later it's like people don't even just like vaguely connected to her so powerful it's like you look so he's hugging the eye once you're a millionaire you a millionaire if you set for life well vaguely connected to her in 2010 you still have a career it's amazing it's iconic but she said a thing that was like it used to be that you live your life and then you take photos of it or whatever and

then there's like this extra bit that you can post that on social media but now and she's so fucking right yeah it has become a world where this you are creating content for your social media you are doing things to post the photos of it on social media and that to me that's what lives in the back of my mind with this bleakness you know what she actually said yeah was that she said it used to be we'd go on social media to escape the real world yeah but now the real world we go to the real world to escape social media and let me not even about it's literally just like we that used to be an escape it used to be niche but also let's remind ourselves that one of them isn't real one of these is not real and one of them is very much alive

very much alive one of them is everything one of them is the only thing you will ever have that will come to an end one day yeah and one of them is a thing created to addict your brain it's ketchup it's sriracha mayo it can be so good it can be so good but jesus don't bathe in it you don't want to eat sriracha mayo breakfast lunch and dinner i don't and my life doesn't revolve around it and ketchup is not all i'm gonna be eating no i need something else yeah but yeah come to ketchup look what you find saffian wing it's a nice little thing yeah no exactly lovely little thing all right okay so this is an ep on social media social media in summer yeah perfect in summer in summer turn the heat on um all right okay well that was really nice yeah that was a nice one i do love to just talk about social media because i feel like it's everything and i like getting to the bottom of it with you

because obviously what we do is based on social media so i need to know where you're at yeah well i yeah it's so it's so bizarre it is bizarre also it's just it's a complex zone and i think it's fair enough to have complex feelings about it because it is just so is's so bizarre it is bizarre also it's just it's a complex zone and i think it's fair enough to have complex feelings about it because it is just so is so so strange what we found ourselves as a society in a in this point in our society it's weird as fuck it's also ruining people's lives and killing children let that be my crux cherry on top i love it i love it here have a great time sometimes but it is killing but me. But we're dying. Yeah. We're dying over here. Dropping like flies.

Yeah. Because of this thing. It's dangerous. It's a hellscape. I'll say it and I'll say it again. I think it's Hannah Montana Life's What You Make It. I don't know personally what it is for me yet. And I'm still working it out and I've been working it out for years.

It gave us this, which is the best. It didn't give us this. This exists and then that's the catch. Social media is the catch up to this give us this this exists and then that's the social media is the catch-up to this we wouldn't have this if like they wouldn't have found this a podcast is social media a podcast is an art form no a podcast is content on the internet yeah an art form yeah but it's an art form what do you mean you think this so this is this is the internet you know no no what no but i don't have a problem with the kind of creed.com

we've set up with the word document yeah no i i i don't have a problem with the internet i love the internet the only reason why we have this because people found it on social media which i love yeah it's the ketchup to the meal perfect perfect yeah i love that i thought you were saying this isn't a part of social media. And I was like, I think that's really ballsy. Of course it is. But I do think there is a complete difference between if we're talking about, yeah, posting stories, posting Instagram dumps, whatever, and recording a podcast.

I think they're completely, literally couldn't be more different to me. Yeah, I love that. I think it's really fascinating. They couldn't be more different. I get it, but I don't think they're that different. I almost i almost think it's like yeah i could talk shit for 10 seconds or i could talk shit for an hour either way it's kind of like do you know what i mean like i don't think a podcast inherently has much value or a long form video has inherently much more value than a 10 second one i do why just because you get more of it well i think yeah okay if we snip this up you could

catch up capture a valuable moment that would be great i love that but why is there value in more of it because if anything it's just a lot more shit that you have to get because it's a piece it's like yeah okay so a clip from a movie that you want the trailer of the movie versus the movie a trailer is still a piece i love the trailer but then it's not a movie you know you don't win an oscar best movie and best trailer no but you could win an oscar like best editor for the trailer, but then it's not a movie. It's not a movie. You don't win an Oscar best movie, best trailer. No, but you could win an Oscar like best editor. For the trailer? Well.

I think it's just the difference of like, one of them is made for a short attention span, one is made for a development and a piece and a conversation. It's like, yeah, I can overhear someone's conversation walking past, but that doesn't sum up the whole thing that happened. But you're not overhearing the conversation because they've given you one sentence. They intended to make a trailer. They intended to make make one piece but that's just a tagline i can i get it but that that i think there is more value in a piece that

has more this is well yeah it has a development and different angles and it's a huge thing rather than even have this conversation we were in waterstones once right off the back of a conversation we had with a young man called oscar who was talking to us about potentially doing a book yeah which we are still very very very much alive the book will never die like yes thanks to everyone who's still thinking about also that one time we said we wanted to do a book that's number two on the list so it's tour we want to see you and then we want to write something for you yes but one time we were in waterstones and we were looking at all the different books as you do and there were some short books you were like see

that's too short it's like what's the point like that's like i'm not taking that seriously yeah and i thought i think it's that's interesting well i think also you can have an amazing novella for example that's incredible yeah but i mean i think we agree on the level some of these um little pamphlets that come out as books. I think it also takes a certain amount of skill to make something really effective in a short piece. There's no bit of me

at all in this world that is against short form stuff. If something's amazing and short No but you do just value a bit more the longer stuff. I think I value good stuff. Which you always think is the longer stuff no i actually don't think that's true i don't think that's true i don't think that's true i think i value stuff that is like thoughtful and well done and all of that okay and yet often that is longer or there's more effort in it or

some but i don't definitely i don't think that think that a two hour thing of waffle is better than a 30 second thing of thing of volleyball. Because that's what I think the podcast can be. I think the podcast could be a whole load of waffle. Or you can get like someone doing a nice 10 second bite sized chunk. Yeah, then I would think that's better. It just depends. It just depends. I definitely don't think.

Well, you know what I think about fucking long um long boring old films like again give me fucking so true yeah no way so true i don't think that at all okay i hear you like jesus i had to read ulysses for my degree and that was fucking torture but like papers terrible terrible he wrote the other it's like no no no why do you write like you're running out of time it's like don't don't do that it's rude it's actually rude to the reader and it's rude to me yeah anyway all right okay cool did we like this i like it was this heated a bit i hope it wasn't it's not i think just whenever we have differing opinions you think i just like to get to the bottom of you a bit and i don't want you

to feel like i'm um attacking i just like no i don't think you are but then i thought have i bothered you in some way with no i just love to understand you yeah you're such an enigma sometimes well even to myself honestly i don't know you're a fascinating creature i don't know people i do mean all of that though i like really agree oh come on a girl says on a podcast social media is bad they're all gonna love it they're gonna be like wing get off your high horse that's kind of they're gonna be like yes if you're so obviously well i agree yeah and you are right i agree with you saying i'm right guys i think no and you are right obviously social media is bad like duh but i think and i think it's amazing that you like and also this is no but i don't even necessarily

love it i think i come off more like i love it because i think there's a huge part of you that just generally how we talk anyway is in sweeping statements that you'll say something like i think if you film your day that's bleak and i'm like okay let's find the 10 in there that isn't that that's all 100 agree i think generally it's like yeah social media is pretty fucked up like you're full to disagree i just have to try and find the alternatives with you sometimes and also i agree but that's not heated that's just me um having the best time same i've had a great time good um and we've made great time here have we yeah almost an hour and i'm leaving in 20 minutes oh fuck okay no that's perfect time okay perfect no cool well i didn't want to rush you cool i mean not rushed or we can keep going if you want but i think we've no i think we're done i think we've done it to the ground how long can the long form concert get

i know it's not worth anything until it hits that one hour mark all right cool well if you don't hear from us assume the worst