Goes Without Saying - Confidence Or The Comfort Zone Choose Your Fighter

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on stagnating and holding yourself back. ✷see more ✷ youtube@sephyandwing ✷ instagram @sephyandwing ✷ tiktok @sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk

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This episode is all about finding the lovely little sweet spot in between the comfort zone and the total chaos that is life. We're doing our best to get ourselves and you, if you don't mind, out of autopilot and with a little bit more care and intelligence and intention behind our choices and the things that we do in our day to day. If you're feeling like you're just doing the most and not loving any of it or doing nothing and feeling miserable about it, this is a lovely episode for you, I think. I hope you're doing good. Hope you find you in a good spot. And if not, I think this should help a little bit to bring you out of the shitty pits. Lots of love. Enjoy. Hello. You're so, you're crystal clear. Really? Like, you're so loud. You've never been so loud and clear. God. Let the bells ring. I plugged it into a different hole.

It sounds so different. Oh my God, do you reckon that other thing doesn't work? Maybe. I've literally plugged it into a different thing today. I just thought, oh, let's try that other hole. I've had to turn you down so much. Okay, guys, it wasn't the mic. It was maybe the laptop.

Maybe the laptop. Because this is my dad's old laptop that he smashed up and got repaired. It's a bit weird. Did you always, every single time you plugged it in the same one? Yeah. I mean, what are the chances is? And today I thought, let's go a bit different today. Whoa.

God, okay, so sorry microphone, I blamed you for something. I mean, it might be nothing, but to me, between you and me on this call right now, yeah, you're loud as ever. God, okay. Okay. So, that's a bit crazy. How are you? Anyway, the sun is shining today. The sun is shining.

I've been loving the springy vibes. And aren't we not in such a springy? spring revival we spring in our step we really have a spring in our step by the time you hear this we've been on a billboard can I also say oh oh I did say to you um well thanks to everyone who was so nice about the oh my god everyone's so happy everybody's living it up that might be a bit of an extreme way of putting it probably don't care that much but I personally have been living it up so happy. And also thank you, Seffi, for the lovely thing that you put in the Crux Club channel, which I did

in the Crux Club. I did message you about, but I thought I'd announce it here. Well, it, you know, it deserved a moment of, um, congrats, I think. It just looks so beautiful. It does. It looks great. Yeah, I'm just so happy to be in the new era, I think. Same.

Like, and it just, it just kind of is emblematic of all of that. It really is. I really feel like, yeah, I don't. know we've put like it's been an interesting I was thinking earlier have really has been an interesting couple of years I think for us been quite a hard few years but like not even like that feels like we're saying something about like management and stuff which we're actually not I think it just has been kind of like I moved home for the last two years like yeah things have not been like they weren't and it me like if I'm speaking about myself personally that was a weird

period of my life that you've just heard two years for the last two years. Like yeah yeah it feels like we've um kept going through a lot of shit 100% I think looking back now it's obviously like the hindsight is everything and also like we're only like right now it's the 5th of March so yeah whatever so this could all change very quickly and also like it's very fresh into 2025 but I feel like this little bit of hindsight even the distance from like the end of last year everything just feels very different and I feel like I'm able to look back and be like whoa I was actually struggling like a lot yeah congrats to us genuinely congrats cheers to you um but I do genuinely feel so good about the new look and it really made me so happy and I was absolutely buzzing off my

nut reading everyone's things and like I just love when something happens and there's a moment of like buzz among us 100% really nice also I feel like you particularly have like a love for the the Rasa for the new start, the blank slate. I really do. Like there's something very renewing about having like a new look visually for the podcast. Like it feels like, okay, we're starting season five. Welcome to season five by the way. Yeah, yeah. We've been here a little, a little while. Have we? Yeah, yeah, a few episodes. We're a few episodes in. It went with the new year. We never acknowledged. We're in season five of this. Oh, okay. Welcome to the the mid-season room sort of reference to the...

It's never been important, has it? But it is kind of the thing of you go through a breakup, you cut your hair. Like, speaking of, you haven't complimented my new haircut. My cousin did this. Shit, I'm so sorry. Do you see it that's layered to the max now? Yeah. She said to me, she's a great, she's a great guy, great gal, great hairdresser.

She's great guy. She's a great gal. Yeah. So she lives in Great Yarmouth, which is near Norwich. Drove down there. My mum was there as well, my dog and everyone was there. And she said to me, she'd already cut my mums and I was like, please, can you do mine? And then she said, you are styling it in a way that you have this haircut, but you don't have that haircut.

Well, that's why I maybe didn't really notice as much, because it's almost like this is what you've been going for this whole time. Yeah, she was like you're doing. You're styling it as if you have layers, but you don't have it. Yeah. And when she cut it, she was like, you've been hiding this damage well. We took off so much from like, basically all the bleach is gone now. That's what I was going to say is, you know, you were dealing with some bleach. It feels so healthy now.

That's nice. First haircut since pre-COVID. Yeah, I haven't had someone else cut my hair since pre-COVID. And I highly recommend. I mean, it will definitely be an experience. I forgot actually what a luxury it feels like. That would be nice. To not be hacking at your own hair.

I forgot. I'm always hacking at something. Same. Same. Did you have pancakes yesterday? God, you wouldn't believe what I had. You did? Go on.

I had a pancake night with like people came over and hosted, like, my housemate cooked vegan pancakes and non-vegan with all the toppings. Yes. What kind of pancakes? It was like a big night. What was the pancake? situation she's American so she did oh my phones are that like um thick American vegan pancakes um can't can't remember the recipe so can't help you for years and years have

made thick American vegan pancakes oh my god because I've only ever done like crap like the back of my hand it's my go-to especially in COVID sometimes well like every now and then I've like looked back on my archive on Instagram and it's and the stories that are still remaining from like 20. It's just like, oh my God, I was making, like, I was having like 10 pancakes every day. I don't know why I was doing that. I literally, like, all of these, I was like, Jesus Christ, people must have been sick of me. Every day posting these thick and they were vegan pancakes and they still are vegan.

I do them all the time. But, yeah, they're great. So did you have them yesterday? Yes, and I gave some to my dog, which he was happy about. Obviously, like, yeah, I know. Ozzy. Yeah, a little Aussie. Ozzie, yeah.

just, you know, checking in. Also, I think Americans or maybe other people don't have Pancake Day. Well, I think this is why my American housemate was so keen to do it. And I remember when I was dating an American man. I said something about Pancake Day. And I remember him finding that, what did you say? Yeah. Pancake Day.

I think it's quite crazy. Dude. When you think about it, it is kind of mental. I remember it being like, oh, okay, yeah, that is obviously absurd. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely. intriguing thing that we do it's definitely one of the softer sounds like a joke yeah i don't know are you giving up anything for lent i also wanted to ask you oh i did say that i was

going to give up moaning no please don't but i haven't thought about it since i said it yesterday so i don't know moaning yeah only because i don't think of you as a moan at all i don't think of myself as a moaner so basically i was with someone who i think is quite a moaner Okay, okay, this is fun Okay, so basically it was, came up What, you know, is anyone giving up anything for lent? And I was like, yeah Oh, why don't we all give up moaning?

Is that quite bad of me? No, I think that's, um, sometimes people need to know. Because look, it's important a little bitch and a moan, but No, it's a specific that I think if you Like, yes, there is a place for complaining especially in British culture. You must.

To assimilate, you must. And also between friends, like, you know, let out your feelings. I want to hear it all. But... Negative Nancy over there. Some things are just a habit. Like people are yapping, yapping, yapping with like... With misery guts.

Boy, look, I know a lot about the guts of misery. I've been there, but... Yeah. You're not a mona, though. No, I don't think I am a mona. You're not. I'm just like... That's not...

I'm just not... Yeah, but that's not you don't... I'm just like, pretty mentally ill. Yeah, yes. I don't moan about it. You don't moan, you don't. If I think maybe you should have a bit more. Yeah, no, I think...

Yeah, well, anyway... You don't... You don't... You don't like to dwell in, like... I don't like to dwell in... I don't... But you... Go on.

What you don't do, if you don't mind me saying, what you don't do is, like, say there's like... Yes. And what moaners do... do is if there is a nice day we've all had like there's been a nice day and monas get fixated on one thing that happened oh i can't believe that that she said my burger's cold shut the fuck up and but then it ruins and it goes on and on but like jesus christ your burger is not my problem like but don't do they don't do anything about either do you understand how personally i'm going to take

you not being happy i won't take it personally but it will be a very clear reflection on your character. I think it's like, you know, we do all have to kind of follow this social contract of like, you know, we, the Venn diagram of human beings is we're all spilling out onto each other. And I like to take ownership of the way that I'm acting. I know it. I am responsible for the way that I act around others. I don't like to know.

And also, especially at something like, for example, burger being cold is a great example. We've all paid to go for a meal. This is not just your own meal, you know? Like we have all done this thing. We're all in this thing together. Someone making the whole thing about their burgers gone cold, their burgers gone cold. Which sounds like a trivial example, but we've all been there when it's like, guys, can we let the burger go?

Because like now before we know it, we've all spent like 20 quid and this has all been about a cold burger. Like it's really actually shit. So if anyone out there needs to give up moaning for Lent, then follow my lead. I think you know. when you're a mona, when you are kind of getting like a bit of a joy from it, because there's something a little bit, it's sort of the sick thing that you get when, for example, like, bitching has an addictive quality about it,

when you, I got this so much at school, like, when you're in that group and you feel yourself of getting closer to other people through your hatred of other people or through your, like, humiliation of one person, basically. like when you there's something self-boosting about putting someone else down and that is when if you're getting a good feeling from it that's probably not great but yeah it is interesting though but I feel like I can understand for example kids at school bitching about somebody it makes you feel closer and more connected to your group and it's about kind of like feeling safe in your community and it's like if they are the outsider to the tribe then I am safe.

in the tribe look at her embarrassing shoes but we all have the right shoes therefore I'm safe in the group and I'm a part of this group and I'm taking care of whatever like I get that on a psychological level 100% what is the thrill but still or the biological safety and like complaining about your burger too much too much quote unquote like obviously I'm not you know the the marker of I don't get to measure what is and isn't too much moaning but no I think but also I know what's too much moaning for me because I enjoy a bit of moaning like I enjoy a little bit of like um oh for fuck sake my bus was but I like to if someone's if they know when to stop I don't mind a little bit of it also I think there's a certain bit of like if someone has genuinely had a shit day tell me about

it like you need to like literally there it goes a saying yes but I feel feel like yes it does go over it but I don't know I don't know what the like evolutionary thing is. And I wonder if it is going to sweep us right in the comfort zone. I feel like a lot of it is the habit of that's what

you've learned because look me too. I learned like definitely as a child and definitely as a child in England I looked around and I thought oh life is about moaning. Life is about complaining. Life is about being miserable. Okay. Yeah. I get it.

But now I don't necessarily think I'm a moaner but I do think like you know it's definitely I definitely think it's a challenge to the British way to try and enjoy your life yeah I think I don't know what the pull is to like moan about your burger being cold or whatever over and over other than just like that's what you know and it feels safe to complain yeah yeah you know like some people just are operating from that kind of they do pick out the negative and and then feel, you know, why they want to announce it? I feel like, like, it's a really tough thing.

Okay. So, this is a really weird thing to say. Okay, love it. And I'm going to try and disguise it. Well, it's not really, but it's about two people that I do know IRL in my life. Okay. So I'm going to try and, like, kind of cover them up a little bit. I've done that.

So, if you see yourself in this, it's not about you. It's not about you. It's not about you. It's truly not about you. I know two people that are extremely similar. Who are they? Do I know that? They're not connected in any way, but they are literally...

Do I know them? That's what's going on. Back in the room. Back in the room. Back in the room. Yep. So, two very separate people. There is something so similar.

about them. Like, it's like, you don't know each other, but you weirdly have the exact same energy. And I was speaking to someone about it the other day. And I was like, why are they so similar? Like, the feeling they give you when you're around them is so similar. Apart from, one is like this and one is like this.

But there's something so similar, but something completely polarizing about them at the same time. And I couldn't put my finger on it at all. I was literally, I don't know what it is. Like, how is that a thing? what is that question mark, huh? And someone said, it's because one of them has so much confidence

and the other one has no confidence. And I was like, wait, that's actually it because they have the same personality, but one of them feels good about themselves. And the other one is, I would describe as a moaner being like, like everything is negative. Everything's a worry. Everything's, I describe them as they remind me of Melman from my, Madagascar.

Okay, so it's a bit moody. It's a bit like, whoa, everything's like, oh, but what if I, what if the plane crashes and we end up on a stranded beach in Madagascar.

Oh no, what if I'm in a Pixar movie? One of those penguins are going to do a hole in tunnel. It's kind of, there's an anxiety about everything and everyone and everyone's a competition to this person, but the other one has so much confidence and doesn't think like that,

But it's so weird how they come off similar. They're so similar in every other way. But that one trait makes them like how you come away from being with them, you feel different. And what is that trait? Confidence. Like lack of, like one is confident and one is not. That is like the only difference that I can like actually see. Oh, like one is not scared and one is scared.

One is like has like sort of faith in like. life essentially. Yeah. And one has like no fake in life. And that difference plays out in a similar way. No completely different ways. Oh, okay. Okay, sorry, I haven't made it.

I have not done that justice, have I. No, no, no. No, that's me. But where are they similar then? In every other way. Like in their sense of humour, in the way they talk. Right. The person they are, like everything about them is so similar.

But you come away from them feeling completely different. And I was like, what is that thing? And it's just their confidence, I think. It's completely like that, in that area, it's like the confident one you come away from. Feeling all right. Feeling great. And like you, they're giving stuff.

And the one that is not confident. And I'm not saying that if you're not confident, you're not fun to be around because, God, I find particularly stressful. We all have, we all have our moments. Right. But the one that is not. And also it's not that they have no confidence.

It's like, and it comes out, it's like a severe lack. Like, it's like an. active lack of confidence almost that's like coming out in like worries all the time and it's almost like that person to be around someone that is I would say it's parallel to a Mona the vampire is like you you come away with an over awareness of like competition or like oh god like maybe that thing's going to be wrong oh my god like everyone like everything's scared like the world is scary through that person's eyes and you see it do you oh my god I had the horrific moment

moment of like is my garage band still going because i just sort of looked to the screen i was like it's not there like but is it all fine like it's all there it's all fine oh my god but look on your face i genuinely thought like i completely fucked this wow that was scary it's because it wasn't there oh my god like a idiot because we're not on face time today we're on google google do you think it's something in right okay so initially i was like oh it reminds me of a real pain if anyone's seen that film. Oh my. Yeah, great film.

We haven't spoken about it enough actually on the pod. But kind of like that main like climax where he's saying like aren't we all going through something and whatever. Because when we're talking about like a lack of confidence makes like when you're around someone really lacking in confidence and you feel it rubbing off on you or like making you feel negatively, it's interesting because yeah, some people make you feel that way and some people don't. But lots of people have a lack of.

confidence and I was wondering everyone everyone really and I thought is it about not necessarily the lack of confidence but they make their lack of confidence your responsibility so I definitely feel like I go through my life more way more often than not with a lack of confidence but it kind of is my priority to not make my lack of confidence anyone else's responsibility yeah It's something I think about. Let me think. Because with you, Oh, God.

I don't think you have a lack of, like, you've got your issues, as do I. Like, yes. But like, maybe it's that it, yeah, it doesn't manifest. You also have, like, a huge capacity to be confident, I think. It's like, it ebbs and flows and all of this stuff, but I don't think you have any. You're also very,

good at like saying when you're good at something and like that is something that you do do i think you see that from me more because like you're getting like quite a good you know i share think we're like constantly forced my hand but to congratulate us like do you know what i mean whereas a lot of other people especially at the moment like we've got some good things happening and i'm having the conversation almost daily of like why are you not happy to celebrate your achievements sort of thing and I think we I think I'm quite good with you and I definitely think as I've said many a time you bring out the best in me in the sense of like I definitely feel more confident in that way with you and like we share things together that means you I you've been exposed to me being

confident way more times than like other people I don't know I think yeah I don't know yeah also it's weird when it can catch you. Because I don't think we're talking about confidence specifically. No, no, no, no. That was just the example of what, of like, that was kind of in the way of the being a moaner or like that sort of like negative drain on someone. Like basically my main differentiate. Yeah. What differentiated these two people that were to me so identical in most ways was why do I come away from feeling great with one and why do I come away from not feeling good with the other? And the feeling was like, yeah, it's. did come down to confidence. Like one of them was bringing everyone up and one was bringing everyone down just from like that small change.

But it was like, okay, to have very kind of derailed everything. No, no, no. I was more so just thinking not in like, oh, we're not talking about confidence. But I was more so thinking like I think most people generally don't feel like they've got their confidence. No. You know, where it needs to be sort of thing. But not everyone is draining to be around and all of them.

these things and by the way it's not often that I sit back in my life and think your drain to be around your drain like dna like this kind of no it's a specific trait that's why I noticed it it's a specific thing like there aren't many people that come away from being like and I think it's a thing of like making other people uncomfortable and why because I think for a lot of people and especially a lot of people with a lack of confidence they have an awareness of how other people feel around them and they want to make other people feel comfortable around them because because they don't feel so great, they have the awareness of, like, you know, thinking of others. But also, no ways.

Well, also, like, I think, I feel like when I felt my least confident I've ever felt in my entire life, spoke about this many times, when I had, like, literally crippling social anxiety when I first got to uni, and, like, pretty much the whole way through, like, my undergrad experience, horrific time. I was so anxious and my confidence was so low, like, in that specific. specific space like if you had met me on a like a night out or like with my friends or like my general life in Brighton I was thriving but when I was in that setting I was unrecognisable like I could not speak I couldn't do anything like basically I was completely like fucked and there was no way

when I'm at that point I can be thinking about how are the other people in the room really because no way absolutely no way they were not even they were just threats every single one of them was like I'm in Mario Kart and they're all red fucking shells at me like I am not they're not even human at that point they're like all so above me looking down and noticing how like humiliating this experiences of like not being able to speak and all of the stuff that I was completely in my head the whole time like there's so I think there's like when you're in that fight or flight mode yeah you can't be saying you can't be going how is everyone feeling yeah but it is also like kind of a double-edged thing of like yeah you're not necessarily thinking i hope they're all right

today but it is kind of a double-edged sort of like when you're so in your head you are hyper aware of the other people around you perceiving you yeah but like not but like as sort of gods looking down at you absolutely stranger is god what's my saying mount olympus um thoughts on the comfort zone got to get out of it do you think is the only way yeah i think yeah i think so i think so like gently i am kind of knocking on yes hello harry it's time to get i hate that but yeah i think i think it's time to get up and get out it also it only becomes a conversation the comfort zone if that's like a recurring thought you're having recently about i need to get on my comfort zone then i think you should yeah yeah when you are if you've noticed yeah because otherwise i feel like you're not even viewing it

as a comfort zone because you've just entered into a state of thank god like oh my god i'm finally like chilled like I'm finally safe basically but as soon as that stagnation starts to kick in that's your sign like I don't think if you're listening to this and you're feeling still on edge and like a comfort the idea of comfort sounds really good to you then maybe stepping out of your comforts isn't the right thing to do you might not be there yet

but I think like you know when you're stagnating and it's the pits it's no one to push because I also think I've been thinking that so much recently know when to push yeah and I actually have been meaning to tell you that that is a phrase that I've been thinking about a lot I hope it's being helpful massive no I think it's so important yeah I do as well because I think you do know when to push and I think also that's the thing with the comfort zone it's not always that comfortable sometimes it can bring like a discomfort because you start to feel quite bad and you start to have the lacking confidence thing of

you know you're holding yourself back and that's And you feel like shit. Because of it. It's not very nice to reflect on your present day and be like, I know that I'm currently not thinking in my best interest almost. Like I'm doing things to keep me where I am in the name of comfort and like protecting myself from things that scare me. And deep down when I zoom out,

I know that the crux is I'm holding myself back. And I'm not, I'm not. I'm not acting in my best interest long term. Do you know who I saw a thing? I don't know if this has made a big splash on Instagram or anything because I'm not really on it at the moment. So I'm not really on the internet at the moment. So I don't really know what's having a moment or not. So I could be about to be like say something that's like really viral.

Go on men. I'm excited to hear it. I doubt it though. It sounds like you're going to say something very new. Well, it's kind of like I'm about to be like holding. Spain. You said. It's kind of brilliant.

I met my younger self for coffee kind of on. It's about Cynthia Arebo. So I saw a thing where she was talking about, I think it was her, talking about whenever she's doing something, she thinks, am I doing this? Am I loving myself whilst I'm doing this? Such a her friend. Almost like when she's. It does sound like Cynthia, doesn't it?

It does sound like it. I had a moment of like, was that her? but I'm sure it was her. Almost like when you're making your breakfast, it's like, okay, am I loving myself here? Like, is this what I want to do? If I'm loving myself, like, now, is this what I want to have?

When I'm making my cup of tea, am I loving myself, blah, blah, blah, blah. When you're choosing what to watch or something like that, that's more of a me example, I think she said that. But you're... When you know, loungy, you kick back and relax. You're thinking. And I love myself here when I choose peep show again.

But like, sometimes I do think, like, Am I, it's been good to stop myself in moments where like I know I'm doing something bad and it came to me when I was like on YouTube shorts. Fuck my life. YouTube shorts on my laptop. Low moment. It baffles me that you do that to yourself. It's really interesting. Browser.

Yeah. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Terrible. Interesting. On like Chrome on my laptop going through YouTube shots. It must look so bad. It's there the whole screen. Also I've got a big old laptop like it's.

mental. Am I loving myself? Am I loving myself? Am I loving myself? But the thought came to me. Genuinely, I had, Cynthia came to me through the screen and I thought, am I loving myself here? And I thought, no.

You are not. You're checked out. This is weird behavior. This is not right. And it's like, and then I stopped doing it and thought, okay, so what can I do? And then I did some yoga and I thought, thank you, Sophia. Yeah. That was like such a better use of half an hour.

Like, just having that as a little voice in there. is quite useful. It's kind of what we always say about like, where's the intention? It's totally just taking a moment. Question mark. Is there any intention here? Because I don't think you intentionally ever end up on YouTube shorts on your laptop, ever. Well, this is why Instagram's had to go for me at the moment.

Like, I'm hoping to, I'm popping in every, like, once a week. Yeah. But I've managed to get it at the moment where, obviously, Instagram, I assume, for like, most of us or, like, completely was for me. three weeks ago was a place that my default is going on that throughout the day like I sort of go on it a bit and then it's a place that I keep returning to throughout the day at the moment I basically gave up for the whole of my reading week that was just had a week off Instagram nothing no big deal but by about like I was going to say these the times off Instagram often treat you well historically they do but I don't think I've ever done a time like that that felt sometimes

when I'm like, I'm taking time of Instagram. I'm really aware of like it. But this made me really feel like I don't have any desire to go back in. And then the day that I went back in, I went back in, did a little post, and then the next morning,

woke up and instantly was like, went on like a fucking real, spent my morning on reels. And I was like, fuck, let's go again, delete. And then didn't go on it for like four days. Then managed to just pop in again. out again and I now basically I don't know when I last went on it

but it's really nice to be like oh I checked in on the day that the new art went up and all of that but I'm loving that it's not my default yes like it's definitely my default is I don't go my default is I'm not on it daily definitely you're not on it because anytime

I send SEPI anything on Instagram she's like what is that I can't see it and I have to screenshot it or download it and send it over like I definitely think of you as someone not on Instagram which I always well I always know of you saying I'm not on Instagram

or I don't have the app or like you know and you then always say I'm having such a great time I'm not on Instagram yeah and I and I do think I it's not even my thing is not that I hate Instagram or anything like that I think it's God it's done incredible things for us I love it like in so many ways

but the thing that I have noticed this time It's not about finding it a triggering place or anything like that. It's not about identity or anything like that. It's my time has come back to me in a crazy way. Like it's actually just like the quality of life that I have is better without it being default. And I think as well this thing about, I was going to say holding space then, but it's not that one. It's the intentionality.

Am I loving myself right now is kind of what we're talking about a couple of episodes ago when we're talking about like being selfish. there's something about acting in your best interest as a phrase that is very intriguing to me it's a little genital choir about it there's something about it that is like yeah I could probably do with some of that it's not something that I think I've lent into historically no it doesn't sound like me

I don't see myself in that phrase and I would like to but I think a big part of it is finding the sweet spot, finding the biting point between your comfort zone and the chaos. 100%. Where are you right now? In that, on that spectrum? Yeah.

Chaos. I know. We were having a crazy conversation before we start recording, guys. We can't go into it, but. We shall. We shall not. No, we shall not. But no, no, I'm, I'm not in my comfort zone at all.

I'm actually kind of struggling on all levels. Yeah. I feel like if, you've got all your kind of, um, areas of your life. You've got kind of, um, sort of the podcast, relationships, family, self, kind of everything. Everything's up right now. Everything's up to the map level, I would say. stresses and like things like just like stuff at all angles and like some are good some are bad

and all of the stuff but like I definitely don't feel oh my god sorry I feel like I'm just um I for Lent yeah I was gonna ask you yeah yeah I've never given it I've never thought about lent to be honest it's not in my I only thought of it because a pancake but have you like as a kid would you Was there a conversation? My mum... You definitely know this, that when my mum made us give up TV for Lent, and then they split up, my parents split up, and they said, fine, you can actually watch something.

What do you want to watch? And we watch you've been framed after we've been told that our lives were ruined. Yeah. Now, yeah, back up to speed with you. And we watched you've been framed. Yeah. So we gave up, she would often make me give up TV. I hated it.

That's probably why I'm so attached to it now. Do you call Mike TV? No, 100%. And also Mike Rosowski, weirdly. All the mics. Yeah. For Lent. For Lent, I'm not giving anything up.

And this is also why I was kind of thinking of nowhere to push. Because I was like, everything is up right now. Like, so do I want to be like, I'm going to read 100 pages a day? Like, it was just like, shut the fuck up. But I was like, one thing that I do need to be right now is more centred. And like, I was sort of choosing between like, am I going to challenge myself do yoga every day or like journal every day? But I was like I don't want to add in any more like fitnessy things because I'm running so

running at the moment quite a bit and I was like I just don't want to overload my body. My body's up to the max as well. Like it's just like fucking chill. So I was like I need to schedule at that moment to like connect with myself basically and like process all of the stuff because not all of this stuff is good by the way. I'm not saying like everything's turned up to the max in a good way. Like it's extreme, there are like stressful. It's demanding actually.

There's no area where I'm like, oh. You know? Don't have to think about that for a while. Every area is like, and that. Yeah. And that and that. So I feel like I just need, like, I was like, that would be a good addition because I don't like the idea of taking something away, but that's a good addition that like is calming.

Yes. And what is it going to look like? I think it's just like every day sitting down preferably in the morning I did it literally just like just before I sat in like a very stunning beam of light in my room and just like yeah it's good to have a beam of light lying around literally just like 10 minutes whatever I want to do just stream of consciousness get the shit out have a moment and then I always end with like three great like gratitude things and then three things that I like about myself good for like sharing any you

Oh god, well, should we see what I did today? God, it might be really embarrassing. I dread to think. You don't have to share. Wait, is that really embarrassing? I don't know what they are. Shall I have a letter? Yeah.

I did some earlier, but I can't remember what they were. They could be like, I might look at this. Yeah, that's fair. I'm not sharing mine. Hey. God, I don't know where I got this from. I was clearly in a good mood. What is it?

Okay, so this is one of the things that I like about myself. I said, I'm a really easy person to get a long, with. I'm polite and friendly and funny and calm. I'm balanced as an individual and make people comfortable. At Medcan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health, from the big milestones to the quiet winds. That's why our annual health assessment offers a physician-led, full-body check-up that provides a clear picture of your health today, and may uncover early signs of conditions like heart disease and cancer. The healthier you means more moments to cherish.

Take control of your well-being and book an assessment today. Medcan, live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. Really good. That's really nice. So that's the sort of thing that I read. I love writing shit down. This is why I need to burn you.

This is why I'm not reading what I wrote earlier out, ever. Well, sorry about that. No, no, I love it. I'm happy you shared that. And polite is a funny one. The polite is a funny one. And polite and can't. Like, they're very like,

you're been possessed someone speaking through you I'm polite like Victorian child possessed your body I'm kind and polite and funny and take care of the needy

and I was there something about the individual I'm balanced as an individual and I always fetched Papa's water from the like what is this thing

Narnia girl balanced as an individual that's so mugging weird yes love it actually kind of oh my god my well I like to hear that that's what's going on in your in your innards every now and then well that is hilarious my my eye line is all smudged that really got me

I didn't this is what I mean by journaling is so good no no it's so good you tap into something that you've never said like only by the end of something a stream of consciousness can you get to that point it's also about the medium itself of writing you don't you one would never speak like that we don't speak in those sorts of lists but there's something about the

efficiency of writing by hand you do list and then it becomes this kind of free thing of I guess I am calm and also balanced and polite and well-plied and I'm fun and I'm you know like all these things it does there's something about it being handwritten that informs the content what ends up being said because if you would have typed it you would have typed it differently. Oh, 100%. It's very intriguing. And also it's about

you wouldn't sit down, open a page and write that. That's why it feels bizarre saying that out loud on a podcast because the conversations we've had is not led to that point. But I feel like there's something about, you start off being like, I think like, I'm making shit today.

Blah blah blah, blah. You work through it and by the end. You've done your three grateful things. I'm calm as an individual. Yeah, I'm balanced and polite. It's just like fucking hell. You come to that point. It's why I'd love to handling it.

gets you into a weird state it does it does get you into a weird state or like it's just it's intriguing it's an intriguing one um i also when you were talking about like all the everything being on max you like you come in it's kind of the beginning of back to the future it's like boom there's everything's loud in here and all the like pillars of your life of like body self relationships all of this stuff work social whatever whatever's going on for you in your life I had a like weird thing that I went to. It was like a meditation thing and we had to also had like a journaling aspect to it where I was like

essentially list out all of these things. So it was essentially like self, um relationships like work. Like all of these things. I can't remember them. But it was quite a good, well-rounded kind of bank of like the six main pillars that you might have in your life. of your life

God, that was scary oh god we're having a bit today and then we had to go through and rank all of them where we feel like we're at how happy are we in each of these areas out of ten I think and so for example it would be like okay

work could be one out of ten how comfortable are you feeling right now how happy are you feeling with your work let's say like six okay, what would it look like if it was a 10? Oh, it would look like this, this and this, and then bridging the gap of that's what's useful. Self-actualization of like being able to identify that pathway

to something that would make you happier and then figuring out, for example, I'm going to spend the next week or two trying to get slightly closer to it. But I do find that data almost interesting of like, because also it could change day by day, even hour by hour. 100. How happy am I?

in my relationships 10 out of 10, two minutes later, five out of 10, uh-oh, like, do you know what I mean? Also, I just think that's an interesting little practice. No, I love that. I would love to like actually sit there and do that because I feel like that is, it's one thing being like, oh, right now my work is at a two. But if you don't know what it would look like at a 10, your two is kind of unreliable. Like, it's kind of, we're all bit negative nancy's.

like we could easily be like um oh yeah my work is at a 10 but then if i said my work is at a two sorry but then it's like okay so what would i take what would take it to a 10 oh well i wouldn't need to quit my job i actually feel like i could actually just do the job that's like kind of parallel to me or i just more a bit of a longer lunch yeah it's reframing and it actually is like so it's a seven yeah unless you know what you actually want you kind of can't really see how your scale and also sometimes your answer will be quite shocking like i remember being like shocked so i think i like rank some things like higher or lower than i thought like almost yeah i remember thinking like oh i guess i am happy in that area of my life i hadn't really thought about that

but like that is kind of functioning at like near a 10 and maybe i don't like celebrate that enough and i remember actually specifically two of the things like one of the some of the pillars i remember it was like self job whatever one of them was stability and one of them was risk like spontaneity and it was like how stable are you at the moment

if it's like 10 but then what's your like you need the balance between risk and chaos and comfort zone you really do like there's unfortunately there's nowhere around it

because also you can only enjoy that risk once you have the comfort like established like there's no there's no fun in endless risks but there's no fun and endless like stagnation is kind of the biggest fear in life a nice amount of risk is very rewarding because the more like proof and evidence you have in yourself of like being a capable person who can get through certain things and like survive challenges and grow that is the thing that stops you being the person at the beginning that's lacking in confidence 100%

and also that's when it stops being for example to use the example of the burger's too cold and we're going to let it ruin the day like when you're not actually kind of living which is taking risks and doing things rather than just like hiding

then those small things that are like non-issues become big issues they become a wedge between like your friendships all of the stuff it's just not good just like actually just in a fucked up place mentally like and you're yeah it's just a nightmare it is also the kind of thing of like I think it is kind of going back to intention and like am I loving myself right now the relationship between the comfort zone and too extreme of chaos is for in both of those routes it often feels like you're just on autopilot yeah like it's kind of the absence of like like like for example you being like I'm gonna spend some time just like with myself and just getting back into an awareness of like just feeling aligned in myself and just centered in my body and whatever is going on for me being in the comfort

zone this is why I was saying at the beginning like it's not really that uncomfortable because it's not really that comfortable because it doesn't feel good and it is a lot of the comfort zone I say yeah just stagnant um autopilot like you're just kind of like getting through and the same will be said for like when you're in those periods of life where you're just kind of like go go go and it's chaotic and like things are being thrown at you but it's too much and you haven't checked in once with like what's going on in here like any life behind the eyes sort of thing yeah the autopilot thing oh my god like you lose months of your life 100 and you're just being run on weird habits as well like which is why it is kind of oh I'm going to

do an atomic habits thing but it is oh let's go in you are the habits that you have and like yeah Again, with the negative people complain about the bug being too cold or whatever, I really do think it's like, in your day-to-day, your happiness, a lot of it, can be changed so much by the small behaviours and habits that you have and the people that you surround yourself with. I really think those two things together is like... Well, that's your life as well. That's the fabric of your life is.

Like this thing that you're going through day and day out, that's your life by the way like you're actually right now we're in your life it yeah what you just said of like it kind of the behaviours and the habits that you do brings me right back to my dad's club right act your way out of a way of thinking don't think your way until way of acting like it's actually what you do that matters like the thoughts will catch up like it's not about um so i need to decide that i'm confident and then i can be the person that does all the confident things it's like no no no you've got to do the things that a confident person would do and then the thoughts that you are a confident person catches up because you have the evidence yeah and you're

living that life yes that you can't just suddenly decide what that's why it doesn't decide to be like it doesn't work when you're like I'm going to decide to love myself yeah no I'm going to decide to be confident what does that look like sorry what is that that's not a decision you can make mentally you have to do things their actions it's also the kind of thing of like if I watched if I spent a week with myself, would I get the impression that I was someone who thought that taking care of myself was important? That's a really interesting. Do you know what I mean?

What sort of impression would I get of myself? If I spent two days with me, would I get the vibe that this is someone who is making an effort or this is someone who is looking after themselves? Would I get the vibe? Like, would I think the person who is controlling this sim is like a nice. kind, loving, intelligent person or would I think it's like little cousin, run riot, seven year old's got hold of the keyboard and is fucking up my main character. Do you know what I mean?

If I had a look at... I think that's actually interesting to be like what is the behaviour. It's like not what it looks like inside because that like generally you don't have that much control over these thoughts like they're all just wired up. Your internal and your external can be worlds apart. like yeah but they feed in like yes but what happens externally is reflected on what's going on in here

yeah yeah yeah but you can kind of hack the inside like the feeling of if the feeling you want to generate I don't know why it would be that we've spoken about it a bit a lot today oh god I just got a really weird feeling in my arm that someone grabbed my arm

that was really weird I don't know if like the camera kind of caught that Melan Cui It felt like someone grabbed my arm, like a ghost or something. Mel and Sue. That's really scared me. That's gross. I know.

The lights have been flickering a lot in this house as well. Like, there's definitely like a ghost. Something's happening. Something's a foot. That just felt like someone just like grabbed my arm and like pulled it back. I don't know if the camera got that. I definitely saw you kind of shrivel away. Like look down to be like, who does grab my arm?

Who does that be weird? Who is ever used to say this was like in COVID, God, we were actually going mental. When we'd be on FaceTime, we'd be like, imagine if I just saw someone come into your room and like drag you out of the room. Like here. Why would we say that? Actually. It's like, oh god, we haven't left the house in like three months.

Like that's insane. It's kind of like, Harry, what have you just saw on this video right now? Okay. Like someone just like... But it really scary. I forgot what I was going to say anyway, but you get the dress guys. Oh no, go on. I think it was something like confidence.

I think it was something like... If you, if that's the feeling you want to generate, then look at the behaviours. It's kind of what you were saying about like, okay, So if you write out the thing of like, if we want all our work or whatever, like to be at a 10, that we feel 10 out of 10 about all of these things, you need to know what that looks like. So you can't just be saying, I want to be confident. You need to know what those behaviours are. Yeah.

Because otherwise, like, for example, we were sort of just talking about this, like before we started recording. We're on the billboard tomorrow. You probably will have already seen this if you've been on Instagram. Happy International Women's Weekend. Oh, happy International Women's Weekend. Didn't know that was a thing. Just at Lenton pancake day. Didn't realize that was so much.

It's constant around her. God, there's a high turnover of events. We're on a billboard tomorrow and we were just worried just before that we're both going to ruin it with our own insecurities and bullshit, basically. And there's pressure to enjoy it because it's like kind of feels like your wedding day. It's like, oh my God, I'm going to ruin my own wedding day by feeling like this shit on that day. It's sort of you need to know the behaviours of somebody. that is having a good day like it's almost like I can't just be like I want to have a good day tomorrow

it's like I need to think about okay so journal will be a thing that will help me that is my if I think of my perfect version of myself saying so she journals she wears an outfit that she feels good and she's she's washed her hair she's she loving herself she's washed her hair she is not going to listen to like depressing news podcasts on the way I might worry about she's going to be like you know making nice choices um making good good decisions so that in the moment where she's supposed to, wants to enjoy the, like, fruit of her labours, she can. Rightly so, you know, rather than not having any image for it, rolling out of bed,

being like, oh, fuck, I've got to get a train, I look like shit, blah, but I haven't prepped for that, you know, making all the wrong decisions. Maybe it's useful to have an idea of what your... 100% what you want, of the version of you that you're trying to get to actually does in her day. Also, like, if the version of you whose work is a 10 is, I'm going to say something that you can't put back on me because it's like very obvious that it's not my goal in life. But it makes me feel a bit more secure talking about it rather than being like something I actually want. The version of me is to be a good mother. Then I'll like, love a much.

I mean, let's go for something rogue. Like, if the version of you that's happy at work as a 10 in work is playing football in the Premier League, good for you. Congratulations. Amazing. then you probably do already play a bit of football I can imagine but if you don't say you have like this big kind of goal and like maybe you are like practicing in your room that's crazy my advice would be when you start to identify what the behaviours could be there's no shame in making them as small as possible like if it's something whatever you want to play football in the premier league go and buy a football or go and decide which team you support. I mean, like, take it easy at the beginning.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think it can be, if it was like, right, I'm going to run a marathon. It's like, well, this weekend I'm running a 10K. It's like, I'd really rather you didn't, actually. Why don't you just go for a walk for five minutes today? Why don't you, do you know what I mean? Just like, take it really nice and easy and create something sustainable.

With love. This is atomic habits one-o-o-one. I know, I know. It's important that you get in, guys. But he was literally like, make it as attractive as possible yeah but he'll be like um just for the first day put on your running trainers then take them off it's like because these things are actually the barriers like um yoga with adrian my queen the hard the thing she says is like which i just really love it's like

the hardest bit is getting on the mat and it actually is like all of the stuff like all the hard poses that she makes you do and all of the stuff those are not the hardest bit the hardest bit the hardest bit is like climbing out of your bed and rolling out of fucking yoga yeah that's like what making that decision is the hardest bit we're very good at coming up with excuses and like it's the kind of thing of like and I completely get this of like the NHS waiting list is too long well the time is going to pass anyway so you may as well get on it for example I'm I had a text come through my text come through today saying you can um here's the link or whatever like it was sort of I had to do some of some of

referral form one step lovely those things I'm waiting for um okly dokily to get back to me if anyone remembers that oh my god yeah it moves fucking slowly but like it's moving you're on the ladder um just little things where you know who um said something actually when I uh came to stay in Norwich with you and we saw the most incredible um RF Kwang speak about god all sorts of things we were absolutely blown away. Yeah, she was incredible. But I remember, I think somebody asked her, put their hand up and said, do you have like a ritual for your writing?

Did somebody ask her that? Or was that the interviewer? No, no, I can't remember. Yeah, go on. Well, she said basically, the more things you have to get you in the zone of doing the thing that you want to do, the more excuses you have to not do it. So if it's like, right, my ritual or like my prime conditions are, I have the perfect running shoes and it's a sunny day and I'm not on my period.

and my hair's dirty and da-da-da-da, yeah, you're never going to go for a run. And if it's like taking away as much of the fluff as possible, you don't always write with this perfect pen. You don't always have to be sat at your desk to write. You can write anywhere. And taking away the rules and like the narrative around it. And like the glamour almost.

Because these, like, let's be fucking real. Like life is not like a beautiful glamorous thing. Like the things that actually make you. feel good are not often sitting in a beautiful glowing candlelit room and blah blah it's actually just like the moment where you're like snotting laughing with someone like they're not like the most glamorous beautiful moments like if if you waited yeah to go on a run or whatever the thing that for me right now is making me feel good if i waited till i had the perfect fucking outfit and like the greatest trainers in the world a new sports bra that i need blah blah blah you're never going to

literally would not have happened because you just need to catch it when the mood is there for like oh blink and you'll miss it literally blink and you miss it it's there for minutes if you miss that moment because it's like oh but where's my perfect running top or like all these rules oh god where my where i run with no headphones but like where all these things no no you need to grab it by the fucking yeah yeah and go go and make it as small and doable as possible like what would the shittiest version of getting closer to the things you want look like what would the simplest bare bones version of that look like yeah you tell me yeah all right

loved this really yeah I think it's been really good okay good do you look I don't know where I've been actually okay fan I just feel like I've I listen to this I'd be really like same oh yeah yeah oh good because I always feel like that out A whole world in my hands, actually. Oh, I can just do one little. Yeah, no, no, I definitely think that's the only way. There's no sense in the other way. You think you're going to do everything.

Well, you can't do a big thing until you've done the little things. And also, like, there are no big things. They are just a collection of small little things. Yeah. And that's life. The collection of all the little things. All right. Thanks, guys.

I was about to get doing it if you don't hear from us. If you don't hear from us. from us assumed the worst.