Goes Without Saying - daddies, "angry feminists" & generational trauma: a patriarchal jumpscare

Episode Date: May 14, 2023

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you're going to get exactly what you came for, to be honest honest it does exactly what it says on the tin i think we talk about our own relationships to kind of that man as a concept as opposed to like individual men in our lives um although we do give some kind of personal anecdotes so i hope you find them interesting this is a good one if you're kind of in the mood to get a bit of a rant on, a bit of a moan, but also have a bit of fun. I think it's a nice one. Enjoy. Thanks for being here. Okay, hey.

Hey. Hey. How's it going? Good. How are you? I'm good. Nothing new. Just had some porridge.

We've been talking all day, every day. We were just talking about Temple Run, if anyone remembers that. We've really remembers we've really we've gone through kind of every topic under the sun apart from men that's what we're leaving for you guys yeah we've saved it we've saved the combo i think it's gonna be a good one i really don't know what to expect in this as well because i think the title the proposed title the proposal kind of scares me because it seems like the sort of thing that everyone will be clicking on and even though you do want people to click on your podcast i also

think from what you've said the word sort of daddies is throwing out which i don't love that but do you think that's really clickable i think it's almost like dad it to me it's like what i dislike about the word daddy is that it has a sexual connotation to it yeah which i really dislike i hate it okay let's go in with this then let's go with this straight off well actually we kind of touched on this at the end of the last episode i think yeah i know we did spill the beans i think i beans i specifically hate it because i do call my dad daddy so whenever i hear this whole thing red flag i know it always has been it always has been also there's what is also quite bad about it is that i'm the oldest child so you said i have kind of it was up to me to make the move from

daddy or and mummy to mum and dad so and i just never did you made a conscious decision decision though to be like i'm not gonna make the effort to say dad i'm not gonna make the effort to say mom like did you or did you not even think no it wasn't so much conscious it was just almost like it feels wrong like they are mummy and daddy they're not mum and dad oh you're itching me so bad right now i'm so sorry all of my friends laugh at this it's not like all of my friends were doing that and i was like yeah they were all calling their parents mom and dad from like quite young ages i just almost never but i think there was a turning point that i was watching hannah

montana in like year six and miley would be like daddy to her dad and i'd be like well if miley does it there's no need for me there's no push for me to do it so it's satisfying the disney channel dream for you i think it's just in my slow evolution to become miley cyrus age yeah definitely it's like oh she's saying daddy then maybe it's not terrible that i still do but then also like my mind really in a in a kind of um my mind in a really like cynical way but i was gonna say in a really sick way but both kind of goes to the whole like dan schneider situation of like of course miley would be calling her dad daddy on the show of course 100 percent 100 also miley cyrus we don't

know what says miley stewart was saying of course yeah daddy yeah but 100 it's not um but also as a what year six i was not in i was not thinking about dan schneider no i would hope not i really i would hope not yeah i do i don't know i don't know if you want me to say this but i personally feel like there's a class element saying mummy and daddy well there 100 is 100 there is because it's associated with like a poshness to be like mummy like a victorian child yeah mummy daddy a hundred percent there is but also i think that's what's quite funny because i don't know like it's also the most sweet innocent kind of just um it's the term for your parents so it's it's actually cruel to be um kind of like interrogated over it like because i think for you it's just literally what you call your parents but also i think there's

like there 100 is a class element that undeniably is a class element to the words mummy and daddy but all the elements the sexual element everything well but also i don't necessarily see that so much for me because it's almost like yeah i'm not in this circle of people calling their parents mummy and daddy. No. It really is just almost like a young child not growing up. No, but almost like other people's parents would be like, don't call me mummy and daddy. Like, you make us sound like proper Tories. Do you know what I mean?

And your parents didn't say that to you. Do you know what I mean? I don't say it like that. My mum said to me, don't call me mummy. Really? Why? Because you don't want to sound like tories well i mean obviously you don't want to sound like tories no like i almost think i didn't have an awareness of it being a posh thing i just saw it as like a juvenile thing no i think you used to be embarrassed about it like at school but you kept doing it which is what i love about you like it's the whole thing of being like well fuck you lot like you

really don't bend to like judgments no but i definitely did like for example like i would save their names as mom and they're still saved as mom and dad on my phone or like i would be like um because i can't have a fucking phone contact coming through daddy okay who do you think i can't do that yeah yeah i hear you i'm happy to hear that but that's just my sugar daddy like i can't do that yeah yeah i hear you i'm happy to hear that but that's just my sugar daddy yeah of course i mean even that would maybe be more acceptable there's like no that is my legitimate daddy that's cool you make a bit of money on the side and say no no it's my dad's yeah no my father is ringing me yeah it is i've always been embarrassed about it but it definitely is one of those things where it's like it's just mummy and daddy yeah and also it's quite funny

like whenever my like i'll speak to my sister about it and we'll be like oh my god mummy's just being such a bitch and it's like that it does not work as a sentence it's crazy it's actually a ridiculous thing to be calling people yeah but i do like the kind of purity of it of like well that's just what you call your parents kind of the closest people like biologically to you like the people who brought you in this world it's like i have no um desire to change it just it just moved past the point where it was acceptable to change it like i wasn't going to be um would you ever call them mum or dad as a slip never never never ever ever interesting i wish so weird but also like i also think let's just let the girls do what they want

like call him daddy who cares it's just mummy and daddy you know it's just mummy and daddy yeah go for it but yeah no i i also always met with like for that because i ever like everyone thinks that's weird as fuck and i do think it's weird as fuck but i also just can't stop now you think it's weird but like the majority of your life you don't because you almost don't even think about it when you say it because you don't accidentally say it. Like...

No, no. Oh, 100% it's very much. You just naturally... Yeah, it's just... That's what they're called. Yeah. Mummy. Oh, I do like it.

I mean, I don't know if I do. It's just a name now. It's so you to me. Anyway, maybe I'll start calling you Mummy. No, don't. That's so weird to me anyway maybe i'll start calling you mummy no don't that's so weird this is funny this is a really bizarre way into this episode yeah it is i was more so so you're scared of the daddy thing like that was our way in and then i just pried you open on the whole

daddy thing so sorry about that i wasn't like easing us into the conversation but i was kind of thinking i'll come into the episode and say my huge thing about well there's so many things for me about like men and like what the image of a man is and my relationship to my dad and like what my dad meant to be growing up and all the ways like i've been um kind of formed by that relationship i definitely i was gonna come in and be like you know i just grew up wanting to keep my dad happy and like impress him and like make him be proud of me and like be good enough for my dad and i'm still that little child now 100 anytime something goes well for me all i'm doing is whenever i speak to my dad i'm like right i need to like what are some good things i can tell him

that i've done god it's a bit sick isn't it no i completely relate that i need to like what are some good things i can tell him that i've done god it's a bit sick isn't it no i completely relate i'd rather just call him daddy no but it's like you get on your phone to the dad you get on your phone to your dad and it's like oh well i need to say like oh you know we had this amazing meeting or like oh this has gone really well it's like i want i want you to love me no i think this is the most relatable thing ever but isn't it in the weirdest way that like it's not that there's been I feel that there's been like an absence of love there in any way but I do feel like there is a social thing which like you do want that validation more than most validations and I think that feeds into like why we want men's validation so much but like I don't

know there's that whole kind of thing about like if for example have you ever had like a man like raise their voice at you i'm sure you have in this world like a male teacher anything any kind of father figure instant tears instant tears like you want that validation so much from these figures and it's no wonder you get on the phone with a list of like i've done this and i've done this and i've done this because we've been pretty much trained from an early age as we always say that to want kind of like the big boss to love you and like your granddad to be proud of you yeah like all of these male figures your boyfriend whatever all of these male figures to be like oh she's doing a good job to validate you yeah she's a pretty nice young girl who am i in your eyes sort of thing how how are these men

perceiving me like what is my worth because the people who decide my worth is this man yeah these men yeah 100 but i definitely like at the moment i'm just you know really aware of like like i'm such the thing at the moment actually one of the biggest things for me at the moment and i wouldn't mind doing an episode on it and i reckon we will i'm sure we have done an episode on it in the past but there's always more to say about like perfectionism and like being annoyed with yourself for everything you do sort of thing um just general just you know just girly things general vibes just general vibes i definitely like as a child my dad would my dad literally like i my dad doesn't love anything in this world as much as he loves

me like my dad is incredibly loving and affectionate like i'm his only daughter i'm his only child like it i i i think i think actually like i don't want to put words in his mouth and i'm not trying to like um expose him at all but almost i can imagine that him having me like when i was born was kind of a turning point for him like if i think about like this man kind of in his late 20s early 30s slowly learning i think like just a new kind of love that he had never had before i didn't think i was going to say weird shit like this in this episode so i don't know why i am i almost yeah i'm already thinking what is this but i'm loving this no i know um i think so much of the way that my dad brought me up was obviously with so many of the things that he had learned through the ways that he had been parented and the kind of um the good and bad of that of like what his parents how his parents

made him feel and how he felt in his home growing up and the ways that he wanted to like impress his parents and what he saw as like um kind of important like priorities in life and i think like i always like i don't know if i've said this before on the podcast but like my dad I always get my dad to tell me about like when he first like my grandparents first came to London and he went to school and like didn't know English and he would like didn't know how to write the date and was like how do you spell like the 5th of January or whatever like he didn't understand like almost like how to exist in this like country and i feel like a lot of his values are about making sure you're gonna be okay like making sure you're gonna survive financially like making sure you're like impressing the right not impressing the right people but like make sure

you're doing a good job like working hard and like getting things right because if you're not you're not gonna be safe yeah and i really feel like i took that to a crazy level of like i have to be a perfect person which doesn't exist i have to be a perfect person otherwise i'm not safe i'm worthless it's there's no point it's not all his fault but like i definitely see that that relationship is something that has formed that um it's allowed me to lean into those behaviors more do you know what I mean yeah totally I mean we learn so much from our parents don't we like every single thing all of their issues and all of the things that they've faced in their life you were just going to be unpacking throughout your life and passing

on kind of either a diluted version of that or kind of quite a fixated version of that of like you'll take you'll fixate on the idea that i need to be perfect and like pass through this world kind of smoothly in like a sort of i'm not um i'm not i have no resistance to society like society loves me i've got all the traits that that people love yeah and you can just fixate on one and like take that to the absolute depths of hell i also like i've had quite a conflicted well not conflicted but i think as i got older i as much as i had like obviously like the natural kind of conflicts and tensions and stuff with my dad growing up i'd never really felt the kind of awareness of the fear of men and i guess it also coincidentally but also by design kind of ran alongside puberty and things like that i only really felt that awareness of like i think a fear

of men um once i got to like 10 11 12 and onwards then it like really um picked up in like my teenage years when i became really aware of like how i was being viewed by men and also had an abusive adult man in my house kind of what would have been a father figure but i just can't even entertain that phrase for this person um but someone who had kind of the privilege of like being in my house and had some sort of authority over me um being really kind of disgusting and insane um not like how do we feel about the word insane i don't know sometimes people are like don't say insane it's i think it's just one of those things that like we probably shouldn't use but sometimes kind of slips out yeah but it kind

of like it conveys like you get what do you know i mean it's a convenient well we've been it's one of those things that's like probably it's one of those things in a few years we'll listen back to all of this and be like god God, we really shouldn't have said that. But we're saying mental crazy. Well, my boyfriend was saying last night, he was like, you know, by this point, you know, you've been doing it for long enough, like, by this point, I think you still stand by the things that you've said sort of thing.

And almost if you were bad people, you would have been spewing shit. Maybe we have been though. Like, in the way that like you realize things that you've been saying for so long definitely we make mistakes every episode 100 but more so like in terms of like things blowing up we haven't had that yet and i think generally it's because we make an effort and like yeah we're also naturally quite good but anyway who does wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh canadian dairy it's also refreshingly cheap just 99 cents until july 14th it's a treat for you and your wallet

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and millions of lives. Go check out Resurrection wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere acast.com um yeah this guy was insane anyway that i was living with and i started to realize that it was a real problem for me like i'd be queuing at tesco and and like kind of getting antsy of like there's a woman serving and there's a man serving and i really just hope that the woman who's serving is quick enough so that i can get to the woman and i don't have to pay for my fucking meal deal with

this man i don't want to have this interaction with this man and i really started to have this ingrained kind of response of not wanting to interact with men on every level meanwhile i'm at the same time like sustaining a great relationship with a man like in my long term yeah which has been amazing but almost like he's not even a man to me he's just like a something yeah yeah but like i definitely got to a point where i was like i'm scared of men working in tesco and i need to sort it out like i'm getting antsy in the queue because i'm desperate for this woman to serve me she could be a murderer she could be anything like why am i well for many reasons yeah for many reasons it's not it's not also just down to individuals in your life like we live in like those are almost micro versions of

the global messaging that we're receiving and have been receiving since birth like it's not just oh it's by coincidence i met a horrible exactly dalmatian and now i'm scared of dalmatians oops it's like no there's a good reason why you're scared of men because they are literally murdering women raping women hurting women they're scary crazy shit abusing women all the shit on a like global scale we were having just an interesting conversation just now before the pod about made in chelsea i don't know if we said that yeah no we were talking about made in chelsea and sephie was informing me of some unfortunate events that have been taking place under my nose forming right now yeah go on take it away do you know what it's the only thing that's really on my

mind at the moment i'm in a bit of a weird phase in my life at the moment where i'm kind of all i'm wanting to do is like watch weird old reality tv things and basically made in chelsea i've been watching since i was like 14 for many reasons if say a listener had never heard of it so you're like in fucking philadelphia and you're like what the fuck is a made in chelsea what is so made in chelsea is a i'm doing quotes reality tv show similar to things like the only way is essex if you've ever heard of that where but it's maybe like a jersey semi-scripted but like they're real people they're talking about their real relationships but it's kind of set up by producers but it's focusing on the like very very top elite of england that are living in chelsea which is like a very wealthy borough whatever of london and they're all like

how it begins is like they are the the heirs to the fortunes of things like quality street i think mcvitties huge companies yeah like they're like working like diamonds and things like that and now it's like guys like not like a normal level of like wealth like oh like that person's like really well oh my god that family is like well off it's like no like these are like yeah dukes and dukes of like centuries and centuries these are these are like yeah historically and i do think it was one of my first like proper introductions to the idea of like the super elite as like a teenager i think that's why i think because i never watched it it's like uni was the first time that i was like holy

shit people like there's like there are super rich people yeah well there are rich people like that that's fucking wild no it's insane like i think it's if you've had kind of a any upbringing that isn't kind of pretty upper middle class it is quite shocking to behold like it is insane to watch like especially those early seasons insane it's insane guys insane it's mentally crazily insane i don't i don't know what other words to use it's wild it's shocking it's vulgar amount of vulgar is the absolute piss me a bit because here's the pattern of the show and i have i have watched this at the time when it was all coming out. And now I'm revisiting in detail. Probably when you were like kind of 14, 15, 16.

Forming my ideas of men. Forming my ideas of money, men, relationships, friendship, power, all of it. Everything. Friendship. Oh, beauty's a big one. Everything. The format of the show goes like this. Girl gets into a relationship.

There's a man. A new romantic interest gets in like introduced for him they get together he cheats on her she says why did you do that and he's like god it wasn't that fucking serious new love interest introduced basically it's just girls getting cheats on time and time and time and fucking again that's the show and it still is it's only its 25th season now i believe same thing same fucking thing but somehow i'm still hooked um and she said i took like a 10 year break from the show yeah i didn't watch it and now i've gone back and filled in all the gaps in my free time yeah just for fun um just to kind of torture myself my sims 2 free time but i don't

know if i'm gonna name the people because the thing that's crazy to me well we had a meeting the other day where i kind of thought i should not really be naming and shaming people on this podcast because they said something about don't mention brands and shit and these people aren't brands but like if you know the show you know who i'm fucking talking about here and these people are and she is not successful especially in this realm of like podcasting a lot of these men that's what i find interesting is almost like beyond these men sorry to interrupt but like beyond these men it's also i find it particularly interesting to look at the producers that felt like that was the show and that was the story worth telling dolly alderton wrote maiden chelsea she was the like story editor i mean fascinating literally

fascinating yeah that is interesting okay like wrote i need to unpack this especially these early seasons i think she was heavily involved with like the story editing because her show everything i know about love yeah kind of has a bit about you know there's made in chelsea element to it about her being a story writer on a show like this well because i almost think that you know these the people in the cast how much of that is them following the instructions of the producers well you can see that especially in these early seasons you can see then their true reactions coming out like people are crying and like also like it's not just they say oh we had sex and they didn't like they're actually having

sex these people like they're actually in relationships like they're actually sleeping with each other um but like there are a lot of these men that are like very successful in the public eye right now like they run successful shows they are not um hated individuals no and i kind of accepted these people as like yeah they were just on made in chelsea one like back in the day but as i've gone back in some of the abuse that i'm witnessing in these shows from these men to the to the women if some of the clips went viral these men would be fucking done for and rightly so they are would they would they well there would be some conversation right yes yes they should be fucking done for like the amount of gaslighting and like there's one quite famous line that he's this guy has cheated

on his girlfriend like repeatedly and lied about it and made her look crazy, gaslighting her. Made her look crazy mental. Insane. Made her look so insane. Made her look so insane. And she really isn't. She's fully telling the truth. She's also at university at this point as well.

Oh my god, she's a baby. She's literally at uni studying for her exams. He's not. He's a man. Yeah, he's probably like 30. He's a powerful man that's been on this show for a bit and is famous and she's just been introduced as a uni student. Holy shit.

Meanwhile, the other one's dating an 18-year-old that's at school. Oh my god. The show is insane. And cheating on her the whole time and lying to her face. Fucking hell. But there's one bit where the girl that's at uni

is like crying and being like, you've cheated on me again, you've made me look like an absolute fool, like all of stuff and he's like well how can i respect you when you allow me to cheat on you and just this kind of like conversation of like the it's all the women's fault and like they're so weak that they're allowing the men to do this and they don't respect them because of that like they're the insanity of this show like i do not know how these men have careers well i do it's because they're the air of you know a biscuit crumble they're the air of whatever like and there's a certain amount of like forgiveness that it wasn't just like oh it's um boris johnson

um secretly abusing someone um kind of and it wasn't filmed this was on tv this was on tv yeah i think that's kind of the point is that is that you know it was being sold as something like a bit funny and like you know drama yeah and aspirational and just kind of like oh look at us being wild and like and it's got that lovely filter over and it has a weird yeah it's like bright yellow orange and blue it's so bizarre yeah i think the fact that they're so fucking rich it's like what who's who's having a go at you then last night i was telling sephie last night in my dream either we were living in this house i mean sephie quite cool i don't know where it was it was quite nice honestly it was really not i mean i wouldn't turn down a house with you and i love it it's a cost of living quite there's a fucking housing crisis in the uk i'm never turning a house down um it's like god when did we get here

it was so nice and it was me and you there we'd had a whole day it was it was extreme there were some ups and downs i had cried whatever got over it then elon musk turned up and immediately i was like sephi he's gonna you know attack us he's gonna assault us like he's gonna he's gonna sexually assault us and he'll get he'll and he'll kill us and he'll cover it all up because he has the money like no one's gonna hold him accountable and that to me is the maiden chelsea thing of like when you've got that much money like come on like is there anything you can't get away with i don't think so so. What literally humiliating women on TV, but for the whole nation,

also for all the 14 year olds to watch, because that show was targeted at teenagers. Yeah, it was. To grow up and internalise and be like, oh my God, blah, blah, blah is so hot. He's so sexy. This was the main guy. But also, also like the idea that,

what I was kind of saying just before we started recording of that's exactly you know whatever that guy said of like you know you allowed me to cheat on you so like that's embarrassing for you sort of thing like you're pathetic all all these men in life and whatever acting this way saying these things it's their daddy issues coming out it's kind of me being a perfectionist because of my dad whatever it's them just replicating what was going on in their homes and what probably still is going on in their homes and the thing that's so vulgar about made in chelsea and so insane quote unquote yeah is that it's not just what's going on in the homes of like men and women whatever in their relationships and the

disparity between those genders but the idea that this is what's going on in the homes of like the richest most powerful people in the country yeah disgusting so it's like yeah of course you don't want to be served by the man in tesco it's fucking grim yeah yeah and it makes me annoyed i'm like fuck you who the fuck do you think you are i start getting angry i'm like you're embarrassed you're a joke you're pathetic like you're disgusting like who the fuck do you think you are who's that to to the man in tesco i don't know just that man yeah which one which man just that man like capital t capital m oh that man got it do you know what i mean like yeah that man fuck him no completely well because it's like it's it's a systematic a systematic what do i mean systemic issue it can be both yeah can it be both yeah it's just it goes so deep like it that's why it's like um oh i don't know it goes so fucking deep like it's actually crazy when you start interrogating all the reasons why you then

you behave in certain ways and you realize it really just comes down to like either like safety from men or validation yes i had an interesting conversation the other day with this guy who was saying like it was a really interesting conversation and he was saying he has kind of this i guess fear of men feels a bit strong but he is kind of like feels an intimidation with men like you know approaching men and like getting to know men this guy has a yeah this person i was talking to yeah and he's a he's a boy he's a man and he was like you know i feel that intimidate i feel that bizarre kind of like discomfort between us meeting a man i find them a bit less approachable and stuff like that then he said and i um had a conversation the other day where i was at the pub

and i approached these two women because they looked like interesting whatever like let's have a conversation and like brave of you very brave and they weren't they weren't that kind of responsive to me like sort of thing like maybe i like misjudged it and i said but you are a man approaching two women so in the same way i thought you said you approach two women absolutely god that's bruce absolutely not you're gonna freak them the fuck out i mean maybe i would approach it depends it depends do you know what i mean god i thought that is so brave of you i am chatting to i am chatting to strangers these days quite a lot look i think that there's i commend anyone that can go up to

strangers but i think going up to two girls that are at a bar look as a girl do what you want but as a guy this guy look you've got to know how they interpret exactly so that was what i said i was like you've just told me that they looked interesting did they i was like you just told me that men are intimidating to you so now understand for a second like you're a man to them yeah exactly it's bizarre isn't it but i think as well like i do think it's bizarre because i definitely in so many ways we end up holding ourselves back then from like me in my life i'm like in so many ways i have that kind of um the protection that you have to have in as you navigate life it's like you don't have the luxury of like being vulnerable

in relationships and like feeling safe to like be who you are and like just be honest and like do what you want you don't have that luxury unfortunately and it is hard to not be kind of like jaded and bitter about that is it jaded and jaded and bitter though exactly i think it is no i'm saying like yeah no exactly it's like is it jaded and bitter or is it like an unfortunate reality that's kind of been put upon us it's not jaded and bitter oh god girls are so jaded and bitter about their own objectification and no no it's not that at all it's that it's like it's objectively unfair and they're angry about it no definitely but as in becoming jaded in the way that you navigate your own personal relationships do you know what i mean

because i do think there's that element for me personally of like just being closed off and being kind of like almost not worth risking it but it's not worth risking it because look at the thing that you're risking you're risking your life so it's like okay so i could be um a bit more vulnerable in my uber um that i'm getting an uber somewhere and the guy's talking to me and he's saying he's having a nice conversation so the the risk that i'm taking here is i could have a conversation with this guy and yeah i could have a nice conversation with this guy or i could be jaded and bitter and angry and all of this stuff no of course and keep myself safe but more so in my life here definitely but more so in the situations where you're not necessarily playing with your life but playing

with your own feelings maybe of like yeah like don't risk it for the uber probably not but like the bar or all of this stuff yeah it could open a great thing that could be the love of your life that comes over and talks to you or it could be the kind of ceo of blah blah blah dream thing i don't know but more so the men that in your life the relationships that we are in like the interactions that we have with like the people who are around us and that we are not like it's not even like oh entertaining kind of the thought of like meeting this stranger but more so allowing yourself to be vulnerable with men if that's what you want i can hear something hang on okay there's a weird noise happening but

hopefully oh i don't know hopefully it's just for me i'm just i'm going insane as they say um yeah i don't know how you can be vulnerable with men and i don't really know if that's a good pressure that you should put on yourself yeah no i don't see um really many benefits that i've got from that like i really think you should well i think that you should be um yourself and as vulnerable as you want to be with the men in your life and like yeah i think that your relationships can like deepen with anyone the more of yourself that you like let show but i also think like look any man that i'm interested in knowing would understand why it's hard for women to for sure open up to men because it's

like look that should go without saying ruined everything about this human existence for me by making it a woman's experience like i would quite like you to have an awareness of like i think that's the only way i think if anyone has any ignorance of like um if anyone has any ignorance towards like the way that women may feel in certain spaces or kind of the idea that like oh they're not rightfully angry they're just jaded and bitter sort of thing is that would piss me off yeah you're not yeah no tell me guys tell me that you're not like reassure me here please that that isn't entertaining quite an interesting message that was kind of echoed by a lot of people because we put on the story quite a while ago now um about how your relationship with men has informed kind of growing up has informed your relationships

with men now and whether that's like in friendships or in work or in like a romantic relationship if that's what you get up to whatever and someone said that their their relationship to their dad has informed me in the way that it has taught them that they deserve 10 000 times better than their dad and i think learning from there's loads of elements about that i like but kind of the idea of in general i guess learning um what not to do from your parents is like a huge thing for me personally not that like you know i'm not trying to cancel my parents and you know they're just humans but i think learning through those mistakes for me was like one of the first kind of like big life lessons that i was

like really understanding like hang on like that isn't how i would want like if i had a daughter i wouldn't want her to feel like that sort of thing things like that like the kind of first like huge things that impacted me were wrapped up in watching my parents do things and just live a human life and i learned like okay that's a choice i would try not to make for example yeah and i like the idea of kind of looking at kind of being exposed to situations that aren't nice that are like negative abusive whatever just shitty and internalizing it in the sense of you know and i don't know if how much of this is like choice because obviously so much of it is so subconscious and um especially when you're a child it's like you know there's no right way to respond to that obviously um but just kind of the idea that like you are in or you see a situation that you don't like and instead of mirroring it as you

grow up you decide that it's not for you and that you deserve better i feel like is a really empowering response and kind of a way of like reclaiming that kind of the narrative that was given to you you're kind of like forging a new one for yourself which i really like and kind of the idea that um you know people say it's real cringe like pinterest quote but the idea of like hurt people hurt people yeah sort of yeah i think yeah but also like you don't have to and i think as well like we have the luxury of like looking through dms and like looking through these messages and seeing how many people on this planet and by chance they're all here listening which is really nice like we managed to get the nicest group but like how many people go through shit and they don't project it onto other people and they don't use it as like a

way to become an arsehole and like feel annoyed at everyone they just take it on as like a lesson of like well i'm not like that or like yeah i'm gonna be kind to people i think that's kind of the idea of like people talk about this generational trauma that kind of gets passed down and then it's like there has to be someone then yeah that stops it if like we're just repeating exactly she's breaking the wheel breaking the wheel burn the whole town down but don't do what she did maybe don't go that far don't do season eight but like i think like yeah okay so if we're all internalizing ideas we've also like because somewhere down the line someone developed an issue one of our kind of ancestors then they passed it on to their children passed on their

children passed on to their children also like our sort of grandparents lived through like the war and things like this it was like yeah like they are traumatized like these are huge events they're living through of course i always found that really interesting like at primary school because my grandparents didn't live through the war they didn't live through so interesting the war because they weren't in england war yeah like it wasn't that situation it's really interesting like because we would always get like homework and stuff being like go and ask your grandparents like how they experienced of like anderson shelters it's like they weren't here yeah no it's like yeah they weren't here anyway no it's so true actually but they experienced their own wars for sure wars caused by britain basically they experienced the other hand of

colonialism well 100 but we get to call it the war exactly yeah but also like the whole thing of like um it being like world war ii but there are more countries at war now world war but just because england isn't involved in america well directly there aren't things happening right there it's not the world war it's absolutely mental but they lived through my grandparents they've lived through their own trauma yeah yeah so it's like i would expect that to be pretty traumatic in loads of ways. You might have fear for your life in loads of ways. And loads of fucking reasons why people have trauma. Blah, blah, blah, blah.

That gets passed on, gets passed on, gets passed on. Okay, so we're just basically living with the sort of diluted remnants of like all of our ancestors' traumas. There needs to be, and those have like then manifested in loads of ways of like, of our ancestors um traumas there needs to be and those have like then manifested in loads of ways of like perfectionism or like um eating disorders and all the fucking shit that we all kind of carry there needs to then be someone along the line whether it's you or not but like you then will pass another diluted more like specific version of that onto your children inevitably and then we all try not to because obviously we have the awareness of like i don't want to give my kid this shit but like i do think like that's the thing with you can with the hurt people hurt

people blah blah blah there are kind of a few options that you have of like you can either go into the hurt and like oh i don't know what i'm trying to say but you there are two options really of like you can either be someone that carries that on or you can be someone that tries fucking gives us gives a fucking bit of effort into it and also no pressure i think as well like i think the third option is just existing like just trying to just exist in like a way that you understand like the shit that's been ingrained into you and that you're gonna try not to like really fuck up you know the next generation's life but also you are human and there are some things that you can't be perfect at for example like well you can never be

no i think that that's don't do that that's not what it means to try to try no definitely definitely but to try kind of in the sense of like i have to break the wheel um some wheels you can't break the wheel but i do think it's like there does need to be some kind of new awareness i think it's with the introduction of like things like therapy and medication and all the stuff that we know being like more widely spoken about i do think there's an opportunity for this generation to like actually take a look under the fucking carpet at all the shit that kind of like our parents and our grandparents and great-great-grandparents all of the stuff has been kind of carrying around and we kind of were raised in a way that as if

this stuff was normal but i do think there's there's a specific opportunity it feels right now to have a look at like oh shit like maybe that habit that's been passed down and down and down and down like like using this huge fucking problem yeah and i think that's also like when we talk about the maiden chelsea asshole men um continuing the things that they saw in their families yeah their parents were just doing the things like that and that their parents were just doing that's how the men and now they're making an effort yeah that's the man how the men in that dynasty behave like no they fucking don't like you have an opportunity right now at this point to maybe start introducing new things like i like there is a lot of shit going around oh there's some shit going around it's going around around around oh around around and it

will just continue to until someone does and yeah that could be your children or your great grandchildren whatever but i hate to bring it up the world's gonna burn soon so it might as well be you well let's get out of here then let's quickly go and make the most of our lives let's make the most of our mondays um yeah okay that was a nice um kind of adrenaline rush i feel that yeah yeah quite a blast of energy we've broken through something wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh canadian dairy it's also refreshingly cheap just 99 cents until july 14th it's a treat for you and your wallet

there i think i don't know what we did we've broken through the seal of we needed to record and we've done it yeah we've done we've done a an episode we've done an episode so that sounds good hopefully there's more where this came from oh god i'm really sorry for bringing up global warming right at the end or climate change whatever you're supposed to say on that note i'm really sorry if you don't hear from us from us assume assume the worst