Goes Without Saying - dating, forgiveness & betrayal: unloved or unbothered?

Episode Date: September 18, 2022

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com. Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi M. Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. Yes, she is. And this and this i say it every fucking week this is a great episode i think um it's a real lonely hearts club vibe actually but i feel like we really go in on some really universal feelings like betrayal um shame insecurity in relationships and dating feeling like you know you have to appear unbothered at all times but you're a human being with emotions just in case you forgot um this is a great episode to just listen to us exploring that love you lots enjoy we're already cursed i'm not even gonna start with a ready curse no it goes there saying hi everyone we're so because this is our second attempt hopefully the last attempt it seems to be going well

yeah this seems well 10 seconds in this is going great um i think it is well basically the the image quality i've got of you on facetime is good yeah and that's my mark of a good episode these days yeah it's like did I see you and hear you the whole way through yeah well um all right so feeling good then feeling good you said you're feeling sleepy I mean when am I not feeling sleepy it just is part and parcel with the experience of life to be honest it's the ghost of that it goes without saying at this point i mean i'm headwigged hot water bottled up to the nines as you um that's quite nice but i think yeah it's just cozy vibes from me same my sister's downstairs she was like sleeping in my bed and i was like get out you need

to i need to record and i was like i'm setting up um not okay for her on the tv i was like, I'm setting up. Not okay for her on the TV. I was like, go downstairs. Watch. Not okay. I'll be two hours. Fuck off. How old is she? You're making it sound like she's like eight. Oh, she's 23. She's 23.

Get out of my bed. Ay, ay, ay. She's been, bear in mind, she's been up. She got up. Basically, she worked four till four last night. Yeah, it's been still. Four in the afternoon till four in the afternoon so she deserves this she's perfect day for a snooze she's within her rights but also can you get off my bed please can i tell you guys about the origins of perfect day for a snooze by the way i don't think

i've really said on the podcast but i say it all the time in my personal life because i can't even remember what it was but it was when we were at uni and classic seffy like had the day off or whatever like didn't have any lectures seminars whatever i hadn't slept i hadn't slept all night as usual i probably slept like two or three hours and i had like a full day of like loads of seminars i probably hadn't done the reading for and like lectures and oh yeah it makes me sick just thinking about it and I really was not in the zone probably like so depressed like just like really really hanging on by a thread not wanting to go in had to get the bus it's probably raining oh no it's not sounding good it's not sounding good sounds like the perfect day

for something well here we go so then Sefi said said i said what are you doing today seffy she said oh you know i just don't really have anything to do i'm just you know free free as a bird perfect day for a snooze and kind of kicked her leg up like and she's in a rom-com perfect day for a snooze um and it was just so classically like seff be rubbing it in my face without meaning to at all it was just like the perfect response to someone being like god i'm absolutely knackered and i've got a full day at uni and you reply saying well i've got the perfect day for a snooze as well it's so rude in that context it's like it's the perfect day for a snooze it's like yeah okay shut up it's so funny it was just so you said it's in such a perk is classic seffy perkiness which is

the best so perky so like annoyingly high energy to be like i'm gonna go sleep bye and it's like oh it was so good i mean i wish for you to have the perfect day for a snooze so i was not mad about it but it actually made me laugh so much also classic context is i have probably snoozed in the day probably i would say under 10 times in my life i cannot i like chronically cannot nap i wish i could i wake up with just and i go to sleep with like I struggle to dip down in the day yeah so if I can I love it if I get a bit of a low energy snooziness oh my god I'm so excited yeah make the most of it as you should this is why I hate um well not hate people that can nap but I'm so jealous of people that can nap so I'm like get up and watch not okay get up you can watch tv but you can't sleep

in the day I mean get out of my bed is a whole other story Sefi and I were literally having this conversation the other day about how we don't love sharing a bed with people and now all of a sudden Sefi and I are going to be sharing a bed next week oh I'm so excited same I'm actually so so excited we've had such an exciting like hilarious fun thing come up oh my god so far off the back of the podcast which is amazing so once again we're just eternally grateful yes oh my god so fun i feel like we've just got a lot my housemate was actually saying to me she was like the minute the plane landed back from lisbon it took the wheels touched the floor and it was like from that moment i turned my phone off airplane

mode when the sign went on a lot of people had their phone not on airplane mode the whole flight and i thought is this what people do now yeah it's making me very nervous i know i don't love that yeah it's like we don't know how this works this airplane mode thing i don't know what's going on but the moment the wheels touched the ground it was like email email and it's like oh my god are things going well did it almost like a curse just got lifted from us yeah I actually thought what did you say earlier say I think give say the mirror yeah it's so good yeah well this isn't my joke this is actually my friend's joke she said it's almost like you smashed a mirror seven years ago and it's just been seven years it's like oh my god you can get some luck again I feel like that's a hilarious way to look at life it's really good i've never thought that

great line from her but also it's not like we've been unlucky it's just all of a sudden things are going yeah we've just got a lot to think about at the moment which is really nice a lot to think about and i think we're also feeling really um happy with the fact that we've done this yeah it's definitely a very interesting thing to like build a podcast as we say as a couple of nobodies like ceos a shitty little thing it's like this went from zero listeners we had zero audience both stephanie and i i'm sure you can tell there was no audience at the beginning of this it wasn't like we came into it kind of ex-reality stars or like if we've just come off love island yeah exactly which would

be amazing goes without saying kind of signed with pretty little thing and i'm ready as you know we don't like sharing a bed with people so we would never be no that would be one of the main things the sleeping situation in sleeping with strangers i would oh god no awful the just the idea of like okay so you're coupled up with this guy and you've got sharebread with him i don't know you met him earlier absolutely oh no it's not for me it's like i hope you like the sounds of sort of james acaster yeah it's really funny the room because i have to listen to that well i was saying to sephie the other day it's quite personal but i was saying like when i i go to bed and i wake up every and i end every day and i start every morning in a bed with my dog and my boyfriend like the two this is the most pure environment i feel like of all the things that

are working against me surely that is like doing something good to like my bloodstream or something like surely yeah surely like the chemistry of that is like i wake up and it's immediately like oh my god i'm in love it's like wow it can't yeah what an amazing way what an amazing introduction to the world every day and i still fucking throw it back in the world's face and have the worst day um but what an amazing at least you get that moment yeah it's such a nice thing i almost think just when you were telling me that the other day the only thing i kind of that idea of like your soul being soothed in sleep is i remember like when i would go camping and my family's a real camping family and we used to have a camper van and almost falling asleep and you can hear a river going past you next like next to your van

and there's like pat pat pat of like tapping old asmr like oh that was really asmr that was lovely i just got my nails done today fun nice um so i almost that feeling of like i know this is good for my soul like my being for my health environment yeah and it's almost like there's a fucking the birds are going and all of that it's like but falling asleep in a bed with someone you love with a dog you love this is why i'm always trying to get my fucking dog in my bed whenever my mom has a bath because that's pretty much the only time my dog can't be by her side otherwise he's always by her side i'm literally like come on otto come on come on and i turn all my lights when i lie there i like to just pretend yeah honestly i'm luring him in and i just lie there for about 10 minutes then i hear my mom i hear the plug hole come out like oh no he's gonna leave me

not quite the peaceful environment he's looking for the most highly strong but it's like my dog is kind of snuggled in between my legs like kind of in like the crook of my arm it's like that's so nice it's just pure peace it's really really beautiful so i don't know how we're gonna cope sleeping together next week i was joking because i was saying to my mom i was like we're doing that and she was like i was like so it's gonna be someone that needs to listen to kind of quite problematic male comedians to go to sleep the voice of that going round and round their head someone who sleeps like two hours an insomniac and an insomniac you're there staring at the

ceiling I'm looking I hate it like what the fuck is that as a duo you're just staring at the ceiling that's hilarious i can't wait it's gonna be fun yeah it's gonna be why why did you just roll your eyes and say yeah like that you don't think it's gonna be fun no that's probably just another weird thing i did but like kind of why did you do that facial expression i don't know I'm excited but you went yeah did I I think I mean yeah okay that's settled then that's what I mean well now we can move on okay well let's get into it then yeah how are you feeling anyway do you have anything huh how are you feeling anyway I'm feeling good I started to feel a bit bad a couple hours ago but i think i've come back out of it i just kind of slumped it down and i've come back up like you know classic classic daily

daily motion six seven wing activities really honestly get in slump it's like 10 a.m get in slump 10 30 get out of slump out of slump 10 35 11 back in slump back in the slump and then often just stay in the slump stay in the slump um this is a really busy day ahead i'm just in slump okay um speaking of comedians sorry just one second literally just this second found out that my friend has booked tickets to go and see you know roy kent yes i do i'm gonna go see him in a couple days amazing how are you feeling about that random i'm excited i've just found out it's happening just this very moment and i'm gonna go see him in a couple days amazing how are you feeling about that random i'm excited i've just found out it's happening just this very moment i'm excited about it good that'll be fun you're quite the lover of him aren't you brett goldstein he just won an emmy i'm a big lover

yeah he did just win an emmy and he's also in he's going to be playing hercules in the new thor film i remember you saying this or was it he was the post-credit yeah reveal that he was playing hercules which is honestly quite strange casting but i'm here for it he's a funny one isn't he that comedian that old guy who i'm sure no one really knows who we're talking about he gives a very he's so groomed to me i think he's quite hot he must be cleaner than i've ever been in my life do you know what i mean he would take one look at me and think god i could fry an egg on your head like i must be so grubby in comparison to him i feel like yeah i know what you mean he he almost looks cgi 100 it's like you're you're a sim in this show 100 yeah and even just in like when he's picking up his emmy so you're not real surely he just turns up and then says um thanks guys i don't know i like the sound yeah anyway sorry that's just my latest brett goldstein no i love it you know

what i'm happy for you yeah i'm happy for me too all right shall we yeah let's do it do you have anything you want to start with absolutely yeah this person said i think this is i don't know i'm intrigued i've got i've got thoughts how so this person said how how to even approach someone because they're 22 no dating experience and low-key gatekeeping myself and that was the bit oh yeah that really hooked me i'm gatekeeping myself i feel like i really get this i'm gatekeeping myself myself right okay i'm gonna need some explanation go on well what do you think of when you hear that where's your mind immediately going i mean my mind goes to almost like i'm kind of saving myself ah okay yeah like almost like until i meet the one i'm not gonna

right with anyone sort of thing i'm go on yeah i think that's kind of the traditional like obviously you know like the religious and the conventional and probably the thing that a lot of us have kind of a lot of young women have been brought up with i guess even in this good old day and age but i feel like this is something that i've we've really briefly scraped the surface of on the pod before because it really it was something that my friend said to me once and it blew my mind and i'm absolutely gonna butcher it um and i'm probably gonna really like it's kind of the thing that if she would listen to this she'd be like what i

didn't say that i didn't mean it like that i mean i'm gonna completely twist her words. But kind of the idea of your desire and your sexuality being kind of steeped in this idea of being desired, being something super desirable, but something that people can't access. Yeah, yeah. Being kind of out of reach for people. See, that makes sense. Yeah, so kind of like, and i'm sure we've all been

there in different ways but i think maybe sephia you you might think we have this in common i would think we have this in common but you might disagree um but i feel like both of us have definitely had times in life or can lean into the vibe of um well fuck this i'm not interested in these motherfuckers like gross scraps um and kind of yeah um the whole attitude it is the whole attitude yeah but i think there's an interesting it was something that i had never thought about up until it was over a year ago now that my friend said this to me and she said basically that she kind of had to well this is what I took it as that she was kind of stepping back and thinking about you know why is it important for me why is it so fun for me why is it something that excites me why is it something that I love is being desired and being something

that people want but can't have and how much of that yeah how much of that is potentially me you know being kind of scarce with my own sexuality or how much of that is me um not wanting to explore something because you kind of project like well they're not they don't deserve me like they don't get to really interesting you know come inside me for example but it's like sure but why and there are a few reasons do you know what i mean i almost feel like it's a kind of response to i think one bit on one uh hand it's like the exact patriarchal dream of what a woman should be, this unattainable thing of this woman

that can't be touched. She's like almost like an angelic being and you want her but you can't have her. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's on one hand, that's like the perfect patriarchal dream. You're completely kind of complying on one hand. Then on the other, I almost feel like it's a response to yeah living in a world where people to that notion itself women like they it's all theirs for the taking they can just take take

take your body there's your mind there's everything you do can be taken from you and i almost feel like it's kind of a response to be like okay so i'll fucking perform it but you're never gonna to fucking get it. Because there is also... So I see it from both. Is there not fun in that? Yeah, I think it's like a sort of performance of sexuality, but then you're kind of,

you're not giving anything away. No, you're all bark and no bite. Yeah, exactly. But so much of sex, like heteronormative sex it's been completely normalized that the woman is essentially a receiver or kind of they're having something taken from them they're losing their virginity or for example people know yeah i fucked her it's like there is an implied in that is the woman is having something taken from her and the man is gaining something so I think it's almost a response to be like yeah you know you're gonna think you're gonna

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And it kind of just readjusts the power imbalance but i completely also agree that you're cutting yourself off from experiences because you're going in with this attitude of like yeah you're not fucking good enough for me yeah it's interesting though isn't it yeah can you relate to that train of thought yeah because it's really fun to be in a room of people that you know fancy you and you're like yeah none of you it's fun but then i also think there's an element of like self-preservation in that that it's like you're going in being like yeah none of you fuckers and kind of a woman's power people are you a woman's power is in how desired she is but how often i would argue potentially less often

a young man walks into a room apart from that iconic quote from chris on love island that year when he was like everyone in this villa fancies me but apart from that yeah apart from that how often but i would say maybe it could be something to explore that maybe less often men walk into a night out or school even and think all of the girls here fancy me and none of them are good enough for me because i think men are raised to just let you fucking finger whoever you can get your hands on oh god sorry that's really gross this is what i mean by he would look at that bright guy would look at me and be like fucking out minga what no he's just too he's squeaky clean he is squeaky clean but i almost think that's part of the fact that he just looks kind of perfect like he's kind of a kendall

he's but he's got a ruggedness to him as well he's got like a you know there's something to him also i like that he's friends with like james acaster that's what really gets me yeah i listen to podcasts with them together so that i know he's in that crew which gets me in yeah i also got a podcast about film which i like he does which is called don't tell me oh films to die to or something films to be buried with films to be buried with yeah i thought that was a nice name of a podcast i think it doesn't need that gimmick like it's almost like i'd rather it's like oh what film are you taking like you've died and what films are you remembering remembering through your life

i almost feel like i just want to hear you talk about films i don't need you don't need to choose the death element yeah i don't need it to start with you've died i don't need and you only get to choose one or whatever to take with you yeah but it's the thing is it's not i there isn't there is a bit of that but there's also just like a bit of oh how did you die all of this and it's just i'm not doing this yeah yeah yeah it's like a whole death element to it as well it's a funny podcast it just could lose that element how did you die yes oh he starts off or some of the guests know that he's going to ask it some don't he goes hi i need to tell you kind of joey king whoever's on the podcast that you're dead you're dead and she's like what is that you're dead how did you die and she's like i have to listen yes it's an interesting format because some of them don't know everyone's turning this right off and heading straight over there yeah no dude it's really good

okay shall we i actually have one oh go take it away no go on please please be my guest be my guest please okay so i've got two i don't know which one to start with actually this is one i actually don't know what i think and i just i don't know if we've um i don't think we've ever spoken about this before and i feel like it's an interesting one to give advice on because it's so uh like the situation could be different for everyone i've screenshotted so many that i wonder if we've screenshotted the same one go on go on yeah it says once a cheater always a cheater do you agree okay um well it's hard isn't it just off the record just between us i i don't really tend to agree with like rules like that because I just think, you know, what is that?

Like, I think totally we can make kind of generalizations and observations about groups of people. Patterns and see the trends and things like that. Sure. Yeah. yeah um but i think it's in life if for example sephie if you cheated on somebody i would engage with you in the sense of you know i sephie can grow and learn i know she can i know she can i know it with all my heart and soul however if i was out and about in my day-to-day life and i was about to go on a date with sephie and someone said oh she's cheated on everyone she's ever been with god i'm coming off bad on this i'm thinking

i might give her a miss then i'm not gonna lie yeah it might not be for me personally um what do you think i feel like it's a hard it would it would be I think a hard thing to forgive like also I want to say I've never been in the situation of being in love with someone that they could even cheat on me or anything like that so I almost feel like I don't have the empathetic angle of like oh but I but I know they would never do it again so from my angle it's like it's not oh they've done it once they'll do it again it's almost like I don't know if imagine I was so in love with someone and they cheated on me I don't know how I could move past that it's also it's beyond even yeah go on oh no I was just gonna say i it's not even important but it's almost i want to get to the point because i feel like so many people either get cheated on or cheat

and then they come to the conclusion that they're going to continue the relationship with the person they cheated on or that cheated on them and so much of the time it's actually not forgiven and i think actually one of the main things is like if you're making the decision to continue to continue the relationship it should be you have decided to forgive it like actually lean into the complete forgiveness of it i don't think it's something that you can then bring up in arguments later in six months down the line if you've made the decision to give yourself further into this person it's like you need to move into trust so i think it's more than fair enough you can't forgive to work but if you're choosing to forgive but i feel like forgiveness isn't just something

you can just turn on and off no it's maybe it's 100 not but that's why i think for me it's like i don't know if i could continue a relationship with someone that cheated on me i was gonna say earlier when you were saying like look if i'm really really in love with someone and they cheat on me i was gonna say it's it's even beyond love it's like you've shared that trust with someone it's it's beyond like oh i really like this person like they're great i'm in love with them it's like i've given so much of myself to you it's almost like we were a team and you broke up the team fuck you that's exactly it yeah it's it's you scored an own goal and for what yeah because now we both lose we've been kicked out the tournament

and how do you forgive that like i just i i think what i'm getting at with like that if you forgive them thing i just for example maiden chelsea i've been really i've been re-watching we're not re-watching the new fucking season is out okay and i haven't watched made in chelsea in many probably literally 10 years it's kind of shit but great like in the way that owie is shit but great like and in the exact way that love island is shit but great the new season of made in chelsea they have someone has been working on the plot lines they've they've got their game back to this heyday i would say it's great oh wow there's crazy shit going on um and i was kind of analyzing the plot lines doesn't take much to analyze the reality show

by the way everyone doesn't know it's a reality show but it's a scripted reality show yeah yeah it's ridiculous a quote-unquote reality show yeah but like the plot line goes girl get girl is with boyfriend girl gets cheated on by her boyfriend on a night out with someone else in the cast girl has a big argument where she cries in front of the boyfriend girl forgives the boyfriend they continue girl then brings up in an argument that he cheated on her they argue and in the end kind of boy breaks up with a girl that's usually the plot line that just keeps being rehashed with just different members and what i was thinking when i was watching this is like that the idea of forgiveness it's like it's almost like it's

easier just to be like yeah i forgive you and move on because it's just like let's just bomb the fucking traumatic event of the person i love cheating on me by just being like yeah we're together again but you've done no work to actually forgive them they've done nothing to deserve your forgiveness and you're just like yeah let's just continue blindly it's like i want to be with this person because i want to forgive you do you know i mean i want to forget you but i don't that's the thing it's almost like you can want to forgive someone without acknowledging maybe how hard forgiveness can be and also like whether that is in your best interest it's like it's almost like short-term relief long-term misery potentially but that's

also not like a one rule one size fits all yeah one rule to rule them all like it's just not um i don't know people's lives so i don't want people to be here and being like oh i'm gonna break up my boyfriend who cheated on me 10 years ago but i also think it's so complex and high emotions high high high emotions you're working with things like betrayal it's heavy that's a lot yeah that's a lot fucking hell heavy beyond heavy we're coming up to 30 minutes by the way are we we were literally like right we'll do 10 minutes and then before you know we've done two sluts of 10 minutes oh we're doing that and then we've done another lot of 10 minutes and we've done it all off the back of that we broke up because he cheated but we have lots of mutual friends and he's kind of taken them all the betrayal just gets worse and worse

i know this is what makes me fucking few i know i know can we also talk about and why i keep i keep saying if i was going on a date with sephie if sephie was cheating on people blah blah blah it's because also when you talk about being a team seffy it's kind of and this is also why i say about it's beyond just loving someone it's what you've shared with them it's that huge history and well it's a massive spit in the face to that it's like everything we've ever done together because that's why i think yeah it is completely that and i think um it also can go for friendships in the sense that yeah i mean i don't it's you can't compare like if i was to say if my boyfriend cheated on me versus if seffy betrayed me in some way what would hit harder but i think and i also just don't want to put that out there but i think it it just is so i think even if

you've never been in a relationship you've been my boyfriend away says which is so cringe but um donkey saying you cut me deep shrek and everyone's felt that everyone has felt cut deep i think yeah um regardless of whether you've been cheated in a relationship or just in you know your general life if you felt like you were in a team with someone because there's so many levels to it and someone's saying they've taken all of my friends for example it's really i think for me the really sinister part is i feel like there's always this kind of implication in life that you need to at least appear like you're just getting on with it and you're kind of nonchalant and unbothered and so not okay it's not

okay it's not right like that that's one of the most gutting bits it's almost like you're supposed you're supposed to like mourn the relationship ending but in this kind of attractive way like you're allowed two weeks and then it's like oh god she's moving like almost kind of and also you better dye your hair and get a haircut and kind of look really hot all of a sudden yeah it's all of a sudden now you you didn't realize it was 10 o'clock hit the slump 12 o'clock get my glow up on it's too much unfair the idea of like now they've taken all the like the friendship group as well i almost feel like there should be some kind of cheating etiquette yeah they should if you're the person that cheats on someone you can't fucking show your face in these social settings for a while it's out of order it's not fair it's embarrassing to then be like it's not fair just to be like oh i'm gonna now be at the

parties you're gonna be out because they're my friends too no you fucking destroyed everything get out my fucking face it's really out of order and it's a betrayal from the friends it's a betrayal from the friends of course it is go with the person that cheated it's just like what are you doing i think i'd have a tough time forgiving that in friends as well people that kind of didn't value the fact that i was absolutely distraught because someone cheated on me yeah if anyone's going through a situation like this, I just want you to know that Sefi and I are very much just taking a second to send you a lot of love. Also that I feel like sometimes when you're in the moment,

it's really, really hard to see past it. But there is a future out there, I'm sure, where this doesn't sting the way that it stings at the moment and i think that goes for all kind of wounds but i feel like god when things first happen the sting the sting is strong it feels like it's over which is it does down doesn't it kind of shock of it all also i remember basically that kind of i was actually saying this the other day that i feel like throughout my entire teenage and kind of adult life all i've been watching

time and time again through all my friends and just everyone i fucking know is stunning girls get fucked over by quite average boys i thought that's just all i've seen just my whole fucking yep um dating life is just kind of girls get broken up with by shitty shitty boys who the girls are way too fucking good for them anyway and then no wonder we have this thing of like um none of you can get me because you're all scraps it's like yeah because i've seen you all be scraps and i've seen and i've seen what happens when people let their guards down like these boys work and work and work to get these girls they get them and then they're fucking cunts i that's i genuinely feel like i have not seen the reverse of a girl leave a relationship or situation ship

whatever a dynamic even coming off better than the guy came off in that i've never seen that what do you mean coming off better like in a better position like almost i've only i've only ever seen the guy hurt the girl like i've never i've never ever ever seen the girl be like oh i'm i'm dipping out gonna be a bit of a dick to you i've only ever seen guys just be dicks i've seen girls be dicks for sure for sure but i i agree think of the the ratio is insane that i've seen um it's just time and time again girls get hurt girls get hurt girls girls just get hurt like what i'm not allowed to go and change my tampon when i'm on my period because apparently you're not allowed to leave the science block absolutely not like girls get hurt just day to day yeah just day to day just too much

but i did hear a thing what i was kind of i don't know where i was leading with that but with this idea of like all i no no it was this is the most rambly thought but almost in this idea that all i've been seeing is kind of the girls get broken up with constantly by these shitters kind of shit yeah like i did hear a thing that i remember using to kind of comfort one of my friends once and i was like and i actually have seen this to be quite true and it's kind of a stupid rule that you'd kind of read in a stupid book about like men are from here on a stupid podcast exactly from some silly little girls um and it was the in a breakup often the man will kind of appear to kind of heal quite quickly yeah and the girl will be hurt way more at the beginning and then it kind of flips like two months down the line

he's really hurting keep going and don't kind of sleep with them again and all of that fucking mess and you keep going you just stay hurt you stay on your path you stay doing your thing and you don't fucking look at this guy this asshole guy that's suddenly texting you hey i'm lonely fuck off if you just stay doing that two months later you're usually on your path up but it usually hits the guy kind of two months later and they're like fuck what did i do and that's kind of what i've seen to be true. Well, that's the thing. I think as much as that is a silly little thing, a shitty little thing.

A pretty little thing. Yeah, I do agree that if we go back to those old generalizations that we were talking about and like the patterns that you see, I think if you imagine, or if we can acknowledge that we live in a patriarchy where men are encouraged to want to have sex with anyone and everyone all the time um not have any feelings definitely don't vocalize your feelings and women are encouraged to need a partner to be valid and all of these things need to be chosen then that kind of trajectory for how a breakup looks for those genders kind of fits that narrative doesn't it yeah okay i've got maybe a closing point yeah from somebody i saw this one

and i think as much as um sephia and i'm not obviously the experts on this or maybe you don't know this but we're not the experts on this um i think it's interesting because also i just i know i just said about oh girls have their periods and blah blah blah obviously not just girls have their periods go well it doesn't really go without saying but it goes without saying and i feel like whenever we talk about dating and relationships and things like that and maybe just across the board i think it should go without saying this obviously sephie and i are most of the time talking about our own lived experiences correct yeah so that's why a lot of things will be speaking from our experience like you know we're two cis people therefore

we might use that terminology every now and then i'm in a relationship with a boy a man um so i mean we come from these angles but i think our advice will translate across so anyway let me just get into what this person said basically i just want to say that we do i think as much as possible make an effort to be inclusive with our language i think yeah i think so but also in the podcast about our lives yeah you know what i mean um which is that's why podcasts are ridiculous because it's like yeah we think we're important enough to get everyone to listen to us yeah exactly anyway i thought i think sephina will have some advice on this um and i think the advice can be used for anybody really for my what i'm gonna say anyway this person said hi hi so i've recently understood that i am asexual i have no clue

how to start dating advice and i feel like why i feel like my advice works for anyone is because okay so my first thing maybe doesn't work for everyone but i guess it kind of could be um it could slot into anything is that i was gonna say i feel like what might be nice this may be okay so my overarching advice is honesty and communication and confidence self-esteem all the kind of classic things and that i think goes for my advice across the board in life across all dating and then you know in work in school in life yeah hold those pillars very close to you i think um and that's why i think the advice is kind of overarching but then i was gonna say i can imagine or i feel like in a situation like that or the ways that i can

you know the ways that we all have we're all coming to society with different shit basically and i think my tangible advice would be um what might be helpful is starting to date with people that you feel like for example might already know at least what asexuality is start to date maybe with someone else who is asexual and i feel like that is something that you can do for example on dating apps which i feel like is just the most common way to date at least in our social circles at the moment because i feel like that way you're going to alleviate some of your like kind of um kind of your self-awareness about it and just the pressure i feel like to potentially act or say things a certain way and all of that stuff but then you could have to

explain have to explain yourself which you obviously don't have to do and things like that but then i also feel like it might be quite nice i don't know your social circle but if you're asking stephy and wing for advice on how to be how to date whilst just realizing you're asexual then i feel like it could be really good to have more asexual people in your life or more people who have gone through similar realizations and dating experiences so for example you start meeting someone who's asexual they've been on a couple of dates they've had a couple relationships i'm sure they can share with you what their experiences are and i feel like it's also just a lesson again not just across dating of opening up our kind of

social pools as much as possible so that whereas just kind of um hearing other perspectives i just think it's the best thing you can do in life is constantly be reminded that your way isn't the only way and that other people have lived through things that can help you so much even if it's something you can never experience i just feel like we can learn so much through what someone else might have gone through so i feel like beyond just being super confident and self-assured and knowing that you are valid in your own existence and you don't need the approval of anyone else to confirm that i feel like finding a kind of network of people that you feel safe to explore your sexuality with can be so so helpful because i think as well sometimes we don't realize how much impact the people we surround ourselves with like your your people around you can really be making

you feel like shit or can really be getting in your head or can really be lifting you up and i think sometimes we don't even notice how much people are rubbing off on us so that would be my advice and i know that's completely unqualified but i think it's a really interesting conversation no i thought that was great i was hanging on every word like waiting for me to get cancelled no i'm literally like yeah and did i mention just to end i obviously don't agree with being homosexual so as long as i don't have to see it in my face then blah blah i'm joking oh my god don't even get i know that's the worst narrative it's actually i think one of the most infuriating things someone can say because it's almost like

they think they're the first person to instead it's like you do realize that's a stereotype it's disgusting homophobic person yeah i don't know i just think it's important because i think it's also important for us to say like look we're obviously always talking about ourselves so if ever we say anything that you disagree with not just in the sense that you know it doesn't relate to you because um it's a niche experience or it's coming from the experience of being sephie and wing for example um because i feel like that is important that yeah a lot of the time we're just talking about ourselves and especially when we're saying things like life is so hard oh my god you don't know what you're doing things like that i hope you can tell it's all directed at ourselves but i also feel like i think there is definitely a level of self-awareness on this podcast personally and i

also want you guys to know that in our real lives where we're not just having conversations about ourselves all day every day yeah i promise that we are operating with a real um i think sephie and i are pretty progressive and switched on yeah i would hope so i think so i think i hope that comes across yeah like i'm thinking surely that comes across well i think it's a shame because sorry i don't know why i'm spinning into this conversation now but i think it's a shame because obviously so much of the media is uh what's it called like targeted a certain group of people or so much of the media just kind of constantly misses out huge lumps of people under

the assumption that those are um my least favorite term minority groups yeah because i personally feel like yeah who is the minority when there is a ton of fucking people here like shut the fuck up like don't call don't call me a minority it's not a minority it's so annoying um so i just kind of i don't know i just want to say that basically if you are gay then we see you and we're here for you and if you're trans and you love sephie and wing then we see you and we're here for you and i just hope that you always feel that yeah anyway sorry big spiel from me randomly no i think that's perfect i mean i'm i'm i'm just hoping that comes across in every fucking oh do you think it does phase of this podcast in every sentence because i mean no i i'm i'm just hoping that comes across in every fucking oh do you think it does phase of

this podcast in every sentence because i mean no i just hope it's like i would be absolutely for someone to think that we won in every way on your fucking side like absolutely in every way this is for everyone and also to be clear you know sephie and i also have really full lives that sometimes things might look a certain way but you might not know different groups that we might slot into and things like that do you know i mean we've had experiences well you can't yeah there's no way of knowing half the fucking shit is there yeah okay cool let's not leave it there i think okay well i've taken us to a weird place okay go go i like this one this is actually the first one i screenshot oh okay they said they said don't ask

what are we instead tell them what you want to be oh love it i actually think that is one of the main errors i'm seeing in my role as kind of a social observer yeah yeah yeah that i think a lot almost the etiquette of being a woman dating i think is to say wait to be told what do what do you want what are we what where do you see this are you gonna make me your girlfriend yet oh god that is let's leave that in 2010 shall we like no but that's essentially the vibe by saying where are we if you want to broaden is it where where am i on your timeline it's like no no no no no no and i don't think it needs to go so far as being like i'm gonna tell you what we are but i think it can be um rather than what i'm seeing it should we have i'm gonna ask him what he wants

from us what's where he what he wants from dating what he wants from this i think you can go in by saying um what i want is i want a casual relationship i want a long-term relationship i really like you i'm just seeing where things are going right now i think you can just say exactly how you feel and to be honest most of the fucking time they'll just mirror what you say anyway because they're just waiting for the permission to tell you that they like you so true the permission i honestly it's literally as simple as that i feel like you can literally be like oh my god had so much fun earlier i really like you in my eyes i'm seeing this as a serious thing i'm personally not dating anyone else how do you feel question mark

because i almost feel like without that it turns into a kind of a guessing game vibe where no one's talking you're going what is this and they're saying i don't know i don't know and then you're like yeah i don't know either and then it just all gets fucking confused and you also you start reading between the lines which is very dangerous like say if seffy said to me i don't know why it's like do i have a crush on you i'm in love with you today will you marry me um but if seffy said to me definitely hey how's it going um do you want to record today by the way um i've got a headache um i might think oh she's told me she's got a headache so she probably doesn't want to record today yeah um blah blah blah but sephie might be thinking well this is the only day that i can record so i hope she messes messages back saying she can record

today and before you know it because it's kind of if you say to someone if you give them the opportunity basically to give you a weird response you may as well just dump yourself like if i say to you where what are we how's this going how am i looking in your eyes and you say oh i don't know like what about you and you say oh well i don't know i'm you know just you know casually dating and you go oh well that's it yeah me too me too and it's kind of just yeah before you know it you've signed up something you didn't mean yeah it's bizarre also it forgets it it forgets one of the most fundamental kind of social rules is that people will kind of people are inclined to play it cool yeah every single person is trying to play it cool look not like that look like they're not that interested look like they're casual they're cool girls the fucking everyone is trying to fucking seem more laid back

than they are so realistically if you ask someone yeah you're gonna ask someone oh what is this and they're gonna be anticipating what you're gonna say and so they're gonna say oh i i'm really liking where it's going like i like it like i'm not really looking for anything serious right now and then you're in your silly silly lack of confidence way gonna say yeah same i think i yeah same i don't really know what i want i think if you do know what you want yeah oh oh you owe it to yourself to be honest yeah you want a long-term relationship fucking say it you've only got yourself to blame yeah it's true that is true tough love from us today but it's true it's like god you're so laid back it's almost like you're so laid back before you know it you'll be dead you'll be on a podcast going you're dead how did you die oh well i was so laid back that i

ended up falling into my grave i laid back too much i laid back way too far and i ended up here with you all right let's go. That was nice. That was a good episode. I enjoyed this. Good, good. Okay, perfect. I'm glad.

Thank you for doing it with me. Have you enjoyed this? I enjoy it every time more than you could ever know. Yeah, same. Bizarre. All right. Love you guys. Thanks for your patience with everything, by the way.

Like I know it's the classic, you know, Stephen Wing experience that, you know we can only touch on like three or four but trust me we've read them all and they're all incredible so many good responses today literally incredible so many good everyone is so smart thank you guys thank you we were also saying this earlier sorry just to kind of make this a tiny bit longer but we were saying earlier when we were scrolling through them i think you said this um like what an amazing thing to kind of get this insight into people's brains and it's like god it is so so generous of people it's like god these are your thoughts that you would write in your diary almost like i think in relationships i am vulnerable we're sharing a vulnerable exchange because then think the

opposite is sephia i think you're very vulnerable every week you turn up and you for example give me your opinion on cheating you give me your opinion on this it's like i think it's testament to all of us oh fuck no it's yeah it's testament to everyone everyone involved well done all right well done let's go if you don't hear from us assume the worst