Goes Without Saying - Dating Types Turn Offs Off The Record

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on intelligence, feeling unsupported, finding your life's purpose, and short men. ✷see more ✷ youtube@sephyandwing ✷ instagram @sephyandwing ✷ tiktok @sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk

Hi. Hi. I'm actually excited for this. Me too. Off the record. Yeah. I feel like this has been like years in the making. And why do you, why do you think that?

Because we did one, not that long ago. Really? When did we last year one? Only a couple of episodes ago. Oh, okay. But there's always more to say. You were talking about my memory. Yes.

Today. And I am getting alarmed by it. So sometimes I think I would come off. like an asshole because I would say something and Sethi would be like no no that never or like what I didn't know that or that never happened or da-da-da-da and I would then be like what are you joking da-da-da-da and then she would be like geez back off sort of thing but now I think of enough people have been on the other side people get annoyed at me well people it's a hurtful and it's fair it's hurtful basically what all happen is you'll have like a wonderful time with Seffi you'll be like god that was really good for our friendship that was really bonding that really meant a lot to me

I really like oh god I just love her so much and just know that I felt that too in the moment two weeks later you'll bring something up and she'll like what I didn't know you liked chocolate or what I didn't know you've ever seen that show and it's like we sat and watched it all day eating chocolate all day together it would literally be the craziest

it's quite unbelievable it's really something but then I always came off like the dick for being like are you joking me what the fuck Seffi but now other people have suffered the same fate really are like it just happened this morning where someone was like oh that stuff that we watched together and i was like i've never watched that with you like what it's the way you double down you're like i've never shown you that in your life that's what i need to not do i need to not say what no we've never like i know i should just have the faith of like yeah just know that your

memory is shit and you don't remember anything i think that's maybe a good it's it's good to recognize moving forward yeah like oh shit maybe this has happened a few times where i have been correct on my memory. But it isn't good. Like, I do, you know, it's really bad, I don't know what to do about it.

It is weird. Like, what do we, what, does anyone know what, what could be wrong with me? Like, I don't remember things.

You could be deficient in something. But like, I've had all the tests. When, I'm not deficient in B12, I'm not, recently. A couple years ago,

when my memory was still really bad. And they said, you're, you have more iron than me, a meat eating man. That's what the doctor said. That's a good thing for him to say. Why do you have so much iron I want to

I don't know. I don't know. But basically, it's really quite concerning, guys, I don't remember anything. Anything. You do remember some things. I remember really obscure things, though. And then when someone will say you've done, do you remember that stuff we did the other day?

And I'll be like, I've never met you in my life. Genuinely, though. You may as well be saying that. It's, you know, it's kind of horrible, but it's fine. It's really, I'm actually really scared for myself. But it's fine. It is weird, but I'm sure it's okay. Yeah.

I hope it is anyway. I mean, obviously. see the only other thing is it's a trauma response but it's weird that you like that it would make more sense to me if you were blocking out like things that made you uncomfortable or things that there's like nice things like nice moments with people it seems to be like nice things that you it's things that I've done with people and like had a nice time so weird why if I'm blocking that out I don't know I genuinely don't know it will be like yeah just like a nice day that I had oh like a funny

conversation like you'll have like a half an hour conversation where it's like ha ha ha I love him I love and then you're like what do you like him as well it's like oh my god it's a fucking excruciating it's kind of like mean scary it's really scary it's horrible but it is scary like cursed child it is really strange it's almost like your doppelganger or something comes out someone else steps in and there's like who like Avril Levine comes out and it's like you've never had that conversation yeah like I don't know that but then I see them also what scares me is when someone shows me the proof. Well, exactly.

It's good to have the proof sometimes. And I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, yeah, it is weird. Yeah, it feels weird. Anyway. You know, this happens to me too, but like not in the same way. No, no, no, no, no, I don't know anyone. No one seems to really agree.

No one else says like, oh yeah, my friend also has that. No. So please tell me if what's going on here. Yeah, I don't know. I really don't. know but anyway we're just going to have a nice chilled chat yeah i wonder what you're up to when you're listening yeah i wonder let us know is anyone watching the video could you let us know if you're watching the video i know you are watching the video because i've seen the stats okay i just would love to know

because i it does i feel i i i can feel myself like looking i feel like i address yeah you do more you look to the camera sometimes i do because it feels like well there's a fucking eye on me and i feel like sometimes I want to make the eye contact. I very rarely make the eye contact unless I'm really emphasising a joke. Yeah. I just feel like it really breaks the fourth. It's like, oh and here we are recording a little something for you. Yeah.

I just feel like it does change. I can feel the presence of the listener more. Really? That's interesting. So I feel like I end up addressing the listener more with the camera. Not that I think that's good or bad or anything. but yeah that is interesting it just is a change it's definitely been a good thing to do hey love it yeah all right let us know what you're up to and let's talk some shit okay this person said

what do you think it means to be intelligent oh and i would love to know what intelligence means to you i'd love to know what it means to you i think we've had this conversation before so i feel like there's something that i think that we both think is really intelligent i think so when we had this conversation i don't remember where it was don't remember anything about it. Surprise, surprise. But I remember you said this or one of us said this. Okay. That we were trying to choose like what are the traits of a guy? Like what are the things that we find most attractive? And people were saying like intelligence, blah blah blah. And we were like, if you just put funny at the top, you can't be funny without being intelligent

and kind, empathetic. Two and one. If you are that, if you are funny and I mean like actually funny, not just like fucking fuck clever funny if you're a funny person you will be all of that you will be intelligent that has it in there totally totally

I agree with you we actually there was I can't really explain too much what this is and for all I know you might not remember it but I think you will there was something that we it was like a piece of content that we had both watched or whatever

and it was like guys just like being boys being boys just men being men whatever, da-da-da-da. And I was like, they are trying to make jokes that they're just not equipped to make. Like, they think they're doing something really, really clever

and bringing a really funny kind of commentary and an angle. And actually what they're doing is just like running their mouth and just saying whatever, with no nuance or awareness or whatever. And it was like not intelligent. I can't say it right now. Okay. Tell me off.

Trust me. I think I can guess. I think you know. If you really think about it. But I can't say anymore. Otherwise, you'll be annoyed at me. I think I know. I can guess who it would be from that, you know.

Okay. I don't think you do. I don't have a clue. But yeah, I can think intelligence is like, to be funny, you have to be, to be properly funny in that way. You have to be clever. Yes, you have to be clever. And I also think there's something. about I don't think you can be I actually think kindness is intelligence because I think if

somebody is mean it's not giving intelligence to me personally because I think you're too dumb to realize that you yeah are not being nice and also I do think that also comes under funny as well like totally you're and like you need to be all of these things to be that thing that you can't just be doing like really cruel, easy fucking. No. Like it's just not, it's not anything. But yeah,

I definitely think kindness comes into intelligence. And like also a perceptiveness comes into it. So many great traits come into it. So it's a great thing to be. It's a good one to have. I feel like it would be interesting. I think, hmm,

I feel like there's something in there. There's something in here about like our relationship to our own intelligence. And I was kind of thinking like, you know, what was your earliest memory of being like, oh, I am being, you know, I'm learning that I am intelligent or I'm considered to be intelligent or whatever, da, da, but I thought that was a bit dry. And then I was like, oh, we could talk about like how we feel comfortable in our intelligence, but that feels a bit redundant. But it's interesting that we do.

But it is interesting that we do. But then I also think it's kind of not that. interesting because it's like yeah we kind of are you you're you told it as a kid you know it and then you just live it and that's completely and how interesting is that and is it just us being like if you were unsure as to whether or not we were intelligent we are and let's move on to the next question yeah it's just like what is this it is that yeah okay do I mean unless you've got something to like I feel like we've had this comment like I know I know I know you know my thoughts I know your thoughts, yeah.

But also I'd love to hear them again. I don't have anything intelligent to say. We're really smart guys. Yeah, but we're really smart. Or like, have you ever felt insecure in your intelligence? Yeah, there'd have been points where I've been like, okay, I'm not cut out for this. Like, I'm not up to scratch. But I think that was mostly like social anxiety, a lot of it.

Like when I first went to, got to uni, my undergrad, Sussex, where Wing was, I, was really like fuck I can't do this like I can't speak I can't like you know all of the stuff but it was actually just I was completely anxious like I was at my limits like it wasn't I don't think I ever really thought I'm too stupid I think it's I thought I was too scared to put on my hand yeah I think it as well it says a lot about like there would have been times where like I didn't do well at like mass for example and we're both bad at mass so bad so why do we think we're clever we're not it sounds like you were going to say classy because I just said clever and smart at the same time.

Yeah. I think it's really and it's actually much more about like just kind of society and like class and all these horrible things about like and like what privileges are afforded to children that. Yeah. If children are not told early on that they're intelligent, they're not going to identify somebody intelligent and that will change the rest of their life. Yeah. Like what I was told between the ages of zero and five has informed me. has shaped it. It's kind of who you are.

Totally. Like, yeah. And like, I feel like, you know, just because you go to school and you are like above your reading age or something, your first, like, few teachers tell you that you're intelligent and then you get put in that camp and you learn that. It wipes out so many people for no good reason who are like, for example, way better at, like, loads of stuff than me. but I also think identify or like being comfortable in my

intelligence or like academic intelligence has meant that I've had to push through times where like if there's a situation for example and this is a big one maths a situation where I'm not immediately good at something then there we go if you're used to immediately being good at things it is limiting on your life

because you don't know how to learn or try or or like push through not being good. Do I mean? I think genuine, I always say this, the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life because these were things I wanted and couldn't do and really had to work.

Were my math, GCSE and learning to drive? Like, those are things that do not, my brain is not computed that way. And like my maths, I had to retake it. I got a C and then my mum was like, you need to retake this and get a B. And that getting that B was probably the hardest thing I've ever done. I think I knew that.

really so your mom said you've got to retake that well she was like there was a thing at the time that was like you can't be a teacher in like wales yeah i remember that if you don't have a bees in i thought it was in england as well oh really i remember whales being one i was like why don't i don't want to be a teacher i don't even be a teacher let only in wales why am i going to wales but this is what i mean by you don't want your doors closed at like 15 16 years old and this is what happens to like every child it feels like we just slam doors in their face for no reason Yeah. Like, who knows, like, what you'll be capable of at, like, 22.

Yeah. It's weird. Yeah, that I remember having to be, like, that was, like, I was having to, like, work. And, like, I felt my brain being, like, I do not. Like, I do not. And there were two weeks in my life where I understood maths. I literally, it clicked. I was like, I get it.

I fucking get it. Did the exam in that time. Don't remember anything else. But two weeks where I was like, I know maths. I mean, you don't need it. I kind of do. this person said how do you feel comfortable

with not knowing your purpose in life and I wanted to add on do you know you your purpose in life? No do you? No do you believe in it? Your one purpose in life

On a bigger sense I think like my purpose is like the thing that I ultimately feel drawn to is like oh I just want to make people feel like very loved and happy Yeah But in terms of like Oh like if you're talking about a job for example like do you like me like the day to day stuff it's just ridiculous

like it's completely capitalism and like films have like fucking jupe to us into like thinking your purpose neatly correlates with oh i could easily sit here and be like i think my purpose is to communicate with people on a through this and make you feel blah blah blah it's like but that neatly correlates to the thing that earns us money and we live in a capital system which we know that is the thing that we've been told that we all should do like when actually I feel like the purpose is like to love the people I love to like enjoy my life to help people to like and yeah like this was born out of all of those desires to like yeah I very strongly believe in like women feeling good about themselves and that's something that like I tried to do in my life and

and also comes into this. But like, I don't, like, that I don't think I believe in one singular purpose for each person. I think it's also like, if you ever feel like you're being encouraged to narrow what your purpose is, don't make it wider, actually. Like, I actually think making your dreams and goals and purpose,

quote unquote, smaller and more tight. it's just closing off your life. And I think having a purpose that is as vast and fluid as you are as a human being is going to lead to a more like enriching, happy. And it's a trick. Life. It's a complete trick to be like, if you sing your purpose is to be a singer.

If you are a doctor, your purpose is to save lives. It's like are these things are so, I don't know, that is such a small part of you the thing that you can do and the thing that you are naturally gifted towards that will earn you money it's so simplistic to like boil it down to

that and it's also kind of I would love to know like the history of the concept of like talking about other people's purpose not like in a kind of compassionate religious sort of way but in like that sort of capital

this way like I feel like a lot of it comes from us watching public figures who are often drilled into a very narrow and yeah narrow version of success like if you're just like for example you're just like a person living there's no who who's it feels like giving your purpose is something to give to other people rather than what you need for yourself like the label of your purpose I don't feel like is really needed for your life and it's okay to not give something there totally and even the word like your purpose it's still got that capitalist like ring to like what do you do like what's your what do you provide for the for the society like what is the purpose of you as like an object what does it do yeah fucking bang it against the wall what does it fucking do like nothing like it's not about

a purpose yeah yeah i think that your purpose is surely just like out what you're doing like enjoy it you're gonna die at the end of it sorry oh i agree sorry it's the truest thing i hate to bring that up hate to bring that no no you're so right all right okay okay yeah it's feeling like an off the record yeah it's definitely feeling like an off the record it does what are you having for dinner these days just whilst i get up another thing what am i having for dinner these days i had like a rice bowl you yesterday there was like rice with like cucumber chickpeas like tomatoes like sesame seeds kind of that sort of thing i would have put tofu in there but

don't have any what about you i've been having a few rice bowls recently actually kind of with the what was that girl's name emily something with the like seaweed and the like fish and the spicy mayo yeah yeah i like that and i've been doing everything but the bagel on top with sesame seeds on top yeah that fucking crispy onions when are they going to get that in the UK. I think you can find it. I think M&S might do it. Oh my god. Okay, because that's life-changing, because that's so good. But I've still got some from America, but. On game day, pain can hit hard and fast, like the headache you get when your favorite team and your fantasy team both lose. When pain comes to play, call an audible with Advil plus acetaminopin and get long-lasting dual-action

pain relief for up to eight hours. Tackle your tough pain two ways with Advil plus acetaminopin. Adville, the official pain relief partner of the NFL. Ask your pharmacist at this product's rate for you. Always read and follow the label. This person said, how do you manage making decisions that disappoint others but are the right ones for you?

I feel like you're preaching to the choir. Really? Yeah. Okay. Tell me more. I think the choir was us four or five years ago. Okay. Like, I definitely, well, I don't know.

I definitely knew. because it was being said to me and I was having these conversations that I was disappointing like my friends and family by like pursuing something that didn't really make sense and that no one was on board with

and it felt like I was making a big mistake like this was a big conversation massive stress. It really was a big conversation if you love the podcast and like you've been here for a long time it's important that you know that this started really like

it was really a phoenix rising from the ashes like it was really a difficult start yeah it really did like it was really personal as well like it felt like it was the kind of all my all my closest confidants part from me that yeah yeah did not get it did not like it and all of the stuff and also completely we are they are so supportive now like they completely get it and we're complete same page on all of it now but it really it took like probably like six months of like maybe even longer maybe longer of like convincing and like kind of like begging people to like understand and just knowing I was kind of like letting everyone down like confusing everyone um which was like obviously like completely horrible and like as I said in I was it the last

episode where I was like I just don't trust myself yeah like it brought up all of those feelings in a big way yeah of like am I doing the right decision like I think I I'm someone that goes off my network their opinions mean a lot to me and like I'll often be saying like Wing what do you think I should do to my mum what do you think I should do

I don't know I don't know and the answer is always from everyone I don't know what you should do and then I'm like fuck because I don't know either but like my a lot of my decisions are built off like the opinions of these people that I trust and like having a lot of people that I trust be like uh uh this is not good like this is wrong

fucking through me so much I can't even really explain how much it threw me but I am always like surprised to be honest that like I did just keep going and like I knew it and like we really really really like

I don't know we were so sure we were so fucking sure we were so sure and this is why you were laughing me out of town talking about the evil eye in the last one but evil eye is like but see it didn't touch us it did though

like it very much changed our day to day for like a year like yes we're still doing it now but like it made our life physically so much harder like when you're already taking on something when you're already trying to do something that feels absolutely insane and ridiculous

to then not be supported by for example the people that you love the most it makes it so much harder yeah it's doing it now and everything is fine but it definitely did touch us, I'll say. It definitely touched us. Saturated, yeah. It really definitely touched it.

And I think it's kind of shaped it because now it feels like, you know, like, it immediately put us through of like, we're choosing this and we're doing it. And that meant that it felt like a big commitment and like a big, it allowed us to also like really enjoy it, I think, because it meant that like we could be so proud of it. And like, it just immediately meant a lot. I feel like a lot of people like do stuff on the internet and it doesn't necessarily mean anything to them but this has always meant the most so much. Which is lovely.

The stakes were immediately high. Yeah. Just classic. Also I've mentioned this before but this is when I DM'd Flex. Oh yeah. Queen. Love her so much and I'm so sorry for DMing you this. No.

I hope you don't mind. But I DMed Flex. Flex. Queen. Queen, Queen, Queen, Queen, Queen. From Bobo and Flex. Before you go on. How can we say, oh, it didn't touch us?

And then in the same breath, be like, but I did DM flex. But what I mean by it didn't touch us is like, it didn't affect, like, the output. Like, we still kept going and all of this stuff is still here. But yes, it completely affected, like. But it did raise the question of whether or not you were going to do it. But only in a way of, like, I have to do it sort of thing. Like, I never thought I'm never, I'm not going to do this. I more thought I'm fucking devastated that no one.

Yeah. everyone wants me to not do it. It just really, like, do you get what I mean by like it really, it changed. It was everything. It was everything. It was like, it was everything. It was everything. It was changed. It was everything. It was everything. So, so that you DMed Flex. DMed flex saying like, what do I do? Like kind of my close friends and family. Like, I really don't like this. But I don't really know what to do because I really want it. Blah blah. And she said, yes so good something about i am pretty dismissive or i find it easy to dismiss people that don't see my vision and it was like flex i love you so much flex come on now i can't just say things like that genius and i do think that is kind of the advice i'm going to give to the person that's written this

of like secondhand flex advice of like people don't see the vision you can still love them and all of the stuff and like it was really important to me to get these people on board they're not people that I can um yeah quite frankly like live without like I need them in my life and like to be on board with my decisions and stuff so it took it was worth that like literally like long fucking slog of like having all of these conversations and getting each and every one of them like to understand what was going on and like why I wasn't making the decisions they wanted me to make or like or assumed I would make. But like, yeah, you don't,

you can dismiss their point of view while still loving them and, like, being around them and all of the stuff. I think it's important, actually. Like, the more you can kind of, like, safely disagree with and, like, have moments of, like, conflict with people that are close to it makes the relationship stronger.

Yeah. But then I also think getting people on board with something that, like, almost how much can you not be on board with it then when it's like, oh, you're on a billboard? Oops, I didn't really. Like, obviously that's jumping ahead. But like, it becomes easier to get on board with something when you see. When it becomes more successful. When it becomes successful and it's like, oh, it's still going sort of thing. Yeah.

And I wonder how much harder it would be to get people on board with something. if you were like purely just doing it. Well, I think it would raise some questions. Like, say we were here five years later, but I think it would be raising some valid questions for us of like, okay, this is not going anywhere and this isn't going, like, because also this stuff comes from like people wanting you to be happy and secure. It comes from their fear of like something not working.

Yeah. And also I think this is kind of maybe the thing to say to people when they're saying things like this of like everything you're saying, saying to me and thinking that's not the first time I've thought it like everything that you're thinking I've thought 10 times before like is it not going to work oh god but what about this blah blah blah yeah trust me I know trust me I fucking know but like I am choosing to do that and like I would love it if you were on board I would really appreciate it actually yeah mean I mean quite frankly the world it would yeah it would yeah and I also think like you're the one

has to go to bed at night in 50 years time comfortable with the decisions that you've been making. Like if you're making decisions for somebody else, you've given up already. Like, do you know what I mean? So, like, the longer I think you can keep fighting, like, I know we had this conversation about the thing of like, are you too old to try new things or are you just surrounded by people who have already given up sort of thing? But I do think, like, the longer you can hold on to feeling, like, driven to do the things that you want to do, the better.

Yeah. And you're like, you deserve to try things, it not work, make a decision, oh, it was the wrong decision, whatever. Like, yeah. And that's okay, I think is my point. Can't agree more. Yeah. Okay. Crazy. God. God. That was quite. Love and off the record, because you just never know what's going to come up and you almost get like little bites of everything. Of something. It's very much like a little mezzly. Yeah, it is. should we just do one little nice one? Yeah. Should we end it with a compliments to the chef? I feel like we haven't done that now.

Yeah, we haven't. Maybe they should all end with that. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I thought of one other day. I wonder if I can get it back. Okay.

I look forward to hearing it. Okay, bread for the table just quickly for you. I, when the other day you were telling me about that you're loving Seth Rogen at the moment. Oh yeah. And I know it's not deep or anything, but you're just like, I'm really loving Seth Rogen at the moment. I just love hearing little bits like that about you. Like, it just really means a lot when you share, like,

a little thing that you're, like, liking from your life. Okay. Well, do you want the other one? The real one that I actually thought this the other day, I thought, I don't know why I've, I've almost, it's a real red herring of me to start talking about Seth Rogen, because my real thing that I am actually loving is Drew Starkey. I know I mentioned that before.

Drew Starky, you mentioned him the other day. You technically just the words Drew Starkey question mark. Who is this guy? Have you... Well, you haven't seen... No, no, you did Google him before. Maybe don't Google him. I'm going to send you him in movement.

I'm going to send you him in motion, so don't Google. Oh, yeah, and I said I need to see him in movement. Yeah, so I'm going to find some nice videos. I've got some saved. What? What's he in? Why are you liking him at the moment? Well, what pushed him into my...

I'd always seen him just floating around and I was like, oh, whatever. That's for you guys. That's not for me. Inevitably. You know when you see something else like, that's not for... Hunter thingy. and then it knocks you out. What is his name? Hunter.

Harris Dickinson. For example. They actually had a conversation. Like one of those. Yeah, anyway. He's definitely one that's like, not for me. And then I saw Baby Girl and I was like, for me. It's like, for me.

It's like, for me. It's like, for me. Drew Starkey was in the Haim video. They've got a new song. Okay. Newish by now. Called relationships. And he's just looking very divine in it.

But I'm glad to hear that you like to hear my inner workings. I do big time. And I love your inner workings. Thanks. Well, I love yours as well. I agree with you. Thanks. My bread for you and for the table we can share is that I agree.

I love hearing the inner workings and I love that we do take everything to its final point. And like I really, I have a lot of curiosity for you. Like I think. I have curiosity for you. Yeah. I think we have like a, I'm genuinely. curious. Yes.

Do you know what it is? It's because there's often like an angle that I've not considered. Yeah. It's just like okay, we're, I'm learning something or just like, even if I'm not learning anything about the world, I'm learning something about you. Which I'm interested in. Do you know what I mean?

Which is why I ask what you have for dinner. Because it's just like to know these things. I like to know it as well. I also wouldn't picture you eating the seaweed like. Really? I would, but like, I just hadn't pictured that in this phase for you. Exactly, yeah, it's nice to know that. Yeah, it's very springy, I feel like.

It's very springy, I like it. Should we do a main course? Let's do a main, okay. If you haven't seen us do this before, this is just like, this is called Confluence. God, that's a scary thought. I completely forgot about that. Okay, yeah, so we do this thing called Compromise. We don't really do it that often anymore.

No, no, we do, we do. And a main. I thought it would be nice to do it at the end of the author records. It was just as I heard us say as a main I thought, okay, does this need explaining? That is alarming, yeah, it does not explain it. We do like a course of just like, you know, just. Yeah, just like I'm sharing this positive thing about you. And the whole thing is called compliments to the chef.

Brackets bread for the table. No, bread for the table is just the first, it's just the starter. No, I know, but sometimes we would say, should we do bread to bread for the table? But that's just like a little bit of bread for the table. That's why I said bracket. Yeah. It's compliments to the chef. That's the full menu.

That's the name. Yeah. Bread for the table. Bread for the table is like it's informal. It's like slang. Yeah. That's why I'm throwing out all Seth Rogen. It's like, it's like, it's like, just bread for the table.

It's just a little scrap. Just some bread, just some bread. That's just Soprogan, whatever that other guy's name is. Drew Starkey. Drew, bad name. You think? That's a cartoon character, Drew Starkey. He's definitely one that I know in like two years time I'm going to look back and be like,

that's all of them. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Is it at the moment? I kind of like, ooh. I don't. Like, obviously this person is hot, but like, it's kind of like... Go on.

Jack Harlow. Whoa. Wait. You did this last time. Did I? Jack Harlow, same guy. Yeah. You were quite loving Jack Harlow, like, a couple of years ago, no?

Was I? Yeah. Well, what's re-revived it then? I didn't know. But what's revived it is the video with... him and Doja Cat. Yeah. But it's like insane in the restaurant.

I literally was dying. What did you like that he did before? You were loving Jack Carlow. I think there's definitely something. So he's not like my usual type at all. This is definitely a conversation we've had before. It's so funny to literally do the thing that we were just speaking about in the intro. God.

Like you could listen to us in 2021, go away for a few years and come back and it's like we're still having the same conversation about Jack Carlo. Yeah. But he's not. But there's something so attractive about him. He has a cheekiness and a boyishness, which is your type. Yeah. Like, there's a sleaziness as well there. There is.

Yeah, slimy. But there's like, I like, my type is cheeky. Yeah. And he is cheeky. Hideous. Hideous type. But I like cheeky but more and not cheeky. I like, like, yours is more kind of impish.

Oh. Like, it kind of. Kieran Kolkin. It comes with like a smallness, which I can't do. No, not smallness. No, but these men are quite small. They're like... No, they're not.

Are you joking? Well, Kieran Culkin, is I? No, but not him, not him, anyone else. But he is the main one. Or like Mary and Pippin, for example. They are small. I cannot let them. But it's true.

It's true. Like, the boyishness. I just they're up there with my crushes. Mary and Pippin, are you kidding me? Mary and Pippin? They're not even in the running. Are you joking? But it's because when you were talking about Seth Rogen the other day,

you're like, you know, I see it for you, but he's too like gruff and whatever, do, do, do you know, he has a cheekiness, he's funny, but he's not small. Do you know what sums this up, I think? Mary and Pippin is actually fucking crazy that you just said. You do like Mary and Pippin. Oh, Fram George. I like them.

characters. Don't lie. As if I like Merri and Pimpern's character. That's the most random thing I've ever heard. No, but you do. And what's the older one? Bilbo. You like him as well.

Don't lie. I know you do. And he's up there. I know he is. Billbo. Why is this what you think of? That is true. You like Billbo and you had him phase.

Back in like 2020, when I watched the whole bit, I was like, is he kind of hard? But like, that is the most obscure one. Like, why wouldn't we go like John Snow? Like, my actual, like, big crushes. Again, small. He is small. Peter, Malark.

Small. The king from Game, from House of Dragon. Small, small, small. Right. But then, but there also, so many are not small. Like? My whole dating history is not small men. That's because you're five foot two.

Five foot three. Thank you very much. And, five foot three. and they're all tall. They're all like six foot and up. Yes, most are. Yes, most are.

Okay. Mary and Pippin is actually fucking crazy. But that is basically Peter Malak. That's the same person. Who, that's Kieran Culkin. Exactly. Kieran Colkin, Peter Malark, Mary and Pippin. They're all the same.

Merri and Pippin are not in that list. They are not in that list. But they go unnoticed. They fit right in. They blend right into the line. They do. Put them people in a line up. It's really bad.

No one sticks out. Get them out. They're not on that. Like, why can't Aragon if we're going to go about fucking order it? Because you don't like that's a lie. I do. Not the same as Mary and Pippin. No, not the same.

It's not the same. There's nothing wrong with it. Basically, you like a boyishness. I hate that. No, you don't. I do hate that. Do you know what it is? I think this sums us up perfectly.

God, I've actually smudged my eyeliner in all that cruffle. But, like, what I think sums us up is, if we're taking John Snow, for example, you like him when he's in his, like, quite king era. Yes. I like him quite at the beginning. Yes. kind of at the wall. When he's boyish. But why don't you like that boyish?

What's wrong with that? It's just not what I won. Like, I don't feel like those are the men that like, I don't feel like those are the men that I go for in real life. And also I think it would be nice to go for more like, um, stable and less like, right. You know, like less cheeky and more like no, you know,

they're like proper functioning. I like funny but manly vibes. That's what I. Manly is a loaded term, but... No, no, no, but manly. But Drew Starkey is quite boyish, I think. It's definitely as boyish as I'd go. Yeah.

As if it matters, but anyway. All right. Mary and Hippin. I'm not happy about that. But I'm not speaking untruths. Oh, I hate that you're not. I didn't make this up. So annoyed.

But I don't. like them. I just historically have liked them. You've literally loved them since you were a child. No, exactly. So I have liked them, but they're not crushes of mine now, are they? It's fucking out. I don't know. That's only you can know. Only you can answer that. The answer is no.

All right. What about Fred and George? Don't you think that has a similar energy? Yeah, Fred and George, I love. I would back that now, though. Okay. Fine. Peter Malark. They're all bubbyes. Hamage. That's, yeah, that's different energy.

That's my current heart. But that brings in the daddy issues. Yeah, the thing is, I think I have two aspects. Yeah, totally. And everybody does. I have, yeah, there's definitely that angle is coming in the place. Yeah. A perfect mix of them all would be good.

Yeah, would. That would. I think Kieran kind of does that. Yeah, yeah, because Kieran's old. Because he's older, so he kind of has that angle. He has, yeah. All right, okay. That was very much.

Oh, well. Or should we just, well. My main course for you is that. Wait, no, let me get your main course. Why? I'd just rather get it ready, you know. All right, well, we're both in the kitchen. The chef's working.

Yeah. Oh my God, I have good news about something about a chef, by the way. Oh my God. An idea, yeah. Go on. It's back on the table. Okay. It's going to mean nothing to the listener, but there could be something happening in a world where we could end up in the same room as him.

So this is a big crush, Will Porter. Yeah, that is a big crush. And he is still boy. Yeah. Okay, so we could meet him soon. We could if it goes through. Please, universe. With him specifically.

But anyway. It would just be so great. Well, I think my main course is that you let me into your inner working. So then I can say things like Mary and Pippen and it's like, I didn't know you when you were first watching Lord of the Rings. We were worlds apart, but I love that that has been shared and like, do you know what I mean?

That I get the different aspects of you. But I feel like that's what I think about you. Of like, for example, the Sephora of, like, I love... So I've stolen it, basically. No, no, no. But I feel like that maybe is just the main, that's the bread, main and dessert today, maybe.

Okay, fine. That I do love that. Yeah, it's just like... Yeah. was for dinner, same as yesterday. Yeah. Yeah, I do love that I get access to your brain. Like, it feels so nice to, like, hear what you're thinking. Yeah, and what you're up to.

I love it. I'm going to send you something of Drew Starkey. Please do. To your taste, or at least if you can see it through my eyes. Yeah. How it could hit. Yeah. You know?

All right. Yeah. Okay. Fun episode. Very. If you don't hear from. Assume the worst.