Goes Without Saying - depressive slumps & the Sad Girl culture: serving CANT

Episode Date: June 16, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on the reality of depressive episodes, anxiety, social media, discourses on mindfulness and virtue signalling, vulnerability, and Khloe Kardashian. ✷see more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. I love the idea of people speaking along with that. Goes Without Saying. Yeah. It's like I do that every time. Do you? Yeah, when I'm listening, I'll be like, wing and i'm seffy i love the idea of people speaking along with that goes without saying because it's like i do that every time do you yeah when i'm listening i'll be like goes out

saying i know you guys with seffy yeah but you don't know which one's gonna say it first you know our voices you do oh so true but you might not and i can't blame you for that yeah this we're in person so the energy is off. In a nice way. Very chilled. We're talking about mental health. I feel like I've just ripped my insides out and given them over. So I'm sorry for what you're finding in there. I've been eating once to munch.

Like it's not pretty in my guts. Hope you don't mind. The microbiome. Yeah, the microbiome's not doing well. It's like, oh, there's some seven-year-old chewing gum in here, okay? Don't know what to make of that. I hope you enjoy. Thank you for for being here we love you so much i would love that bit

almost like when you wake up in the middle of the night this is you um evolved you've gone from you've come from like vcr films to dvds you wake up in the middle of the night and it's like scene selection yeah bonus footage it's like oh it's the same old song going over and over. Do you know what? A bit scary. Lizzie has a bit of a trauma about that. Because when our parents split up, she got really obsessed with the movie Matilda. Oh, God.

And she, I don't really know why. We also got really obsessed famously with The Parent Trap. I'm sure everyone's been there. Famously, yeah. But we got really obsessed. She got really obsessed with the film Matilda. And she says that if she ever sees like the sort of scene selection bit from that,

the music that was like looping over and over again. It's the loop. She was like, she just sat there being so sad like watching it loop and loop and loop. Oh, Lizzie. I know, so sad. So I dread to think, like I can hear the music now. Yeah.

I know them really, like there's Prisoner of Azkaban I feel like I know thatazzle band i feel like i know that one and like shrek yeah that's a crazy one um well anyway that's kind of the vibes that we're bringing just weird vibes yeah background music we weren't here on thursday i put on the story saying took a quick stop at the pits and it made me laugh did you see someone replied saying i hate it when i accidentally get off at that stop well that confused me because i you were on the train yeah so it confused me i didn you see someone replied saying I hate it when I accidentally get off at that stop well that confused me because I you were on the train yeah so it confused me

I didn't really put that all together it was almost like this is a big double entendre play right now I hate when I get off at that stop that's a great response

I just didn't get it the stop at the pits it was a brief stay I must say it was so brief pardon me I want to say it doesn't even count

but it does definitely does but count as what your life yeah i think i have an issue with people appropriating the culture of like sadness it's like if you're not phyllis if you're not inside out two level sadness you don't get to what does that mean you know an inside out yeah you do sadness yeah i'm pretty sure it's phyllis yeah phyllis is playing her yeah yeah so that was just what i was getting okay got it but what do you mean if you're not sad enough it's not even i would never ever dare to speak when someone being sad quote unquote

enough goes without saying but it's what i say all the time which is like my worn out take of like people love to say oh mental health mental health mental health but like when they're faced with the reality of someone actually dealing with their mental health and it's not like cute or tiktoky or whatever yeah they're just there's a reluctance i think to appreciate you always talk about this as like the symptoms of it yeah it's like it's not cute people are just about comfortable with the term of like mental health depression whatever you want to call it but if you actually talk about the symptoms of like it means you can't do this it means you're like a bit of a shitty person maybe yeah not nice but that is what it is like i was saying earlier before we started recording i was like it's kind of the vibe of

if you're living a bit grimly and you are a bit grim and you're living a bit of a grim life yeah that's all right but people don't like to see that i think that's where i start to have a bit of a um grouchy nose about it yeah because i think people are so used to seeing like a sterilized version of what someone struggling with their mental health is that then when they see the reality of it or like they see anyone talking about it they start to point fingers or kind of there's just like a lack of compassion there lack of understanding which is also like what a delicious circumstance that i would love for everyone to not to not be able to understand mental health

it's like good for you yeah yeah i love that for you yeah like i don't want people to be sad but you cannot there's just such a difference though between so i don't have depression you don't get sad i don't get sad i don't struggle with like long periods of depression i just yeah like that's not a symptom that of that's just not something i suffer from but i think you have to be such a fucked person to not be able to empathize with it and realize that someone can struggle in a different way to you it's like it's really um it would take quite i think quite a weird person to not be able to be like, oh, okay, there are ways that this shows up. Yeah, I think it's one of those things, though, where

there's a discrepancy between what you think and what you feel. Like, I think people think that they are, like, accepting of people, and I think they think that they're, like, caring and understanding, and they love their friends and all of this stuff. But when it gets in the way. Is, why haven't you done that? Or, you can can't rely on her or all of these sorts of things yeah but also can those things not be true at the same time it's like you can not rely on them but also have empathy with the fact that they aren't going through the thing it's like i will be and i'm sure they're more gutted about it than you are it's like yeah you're let down by your friend but i think they're let down by themselves more than you would ever know but also i think that's when it starts getting fucked up when you can't have a conversation about that because

that's when like resentment would build up like say someone is you're really struggling for example your friend's got really bad anxiety for example if we take it away from depression your friend's got really bad anxiety or ocd or something like that the symptoms of that might be quite like irritating or annoying or get in the way of that might be quite like irritating or annoying or get in the way of plans. And that's okay. And that's a part of it. Yeah, that's exactly it.

That's it. And I think when it starts being like, oh, well, I don't like our thingies OCD meant that we couldn't do that thing again. It's like, okay, and now let's have the conversation about, I don't like when it gets in the way of the things I want to do, can't do anything I can do with that. Oh, well, that makes me feel shit that it's stopping you.

It's an actual conversation between real friends rather than some weird fucking situation where it's all in the dark. And it's like, I'm annoyed at thingy. What? But also people won't admit. I think people like to have, they carry the ego or like the, the virtue signaling of like,

I think a lot of people would never even identify that they don't have a lot of empathy for people i get i get the thing of like okay if you haven't experienced something you might not naturally some people don't naturally find it easy to like get into the shoes of somebody else or like yeah they don't immediately feel called to the other person's perspective yeah i think i can slip into that sometimes yeah of like i for example yeah we've spoken about it many times yeah totally and i think even with with like everything i've learned about depression from you and like everything that you have i feel like i haven't really i haven't been teaching much i haven't

been i think it's weird spend the summer with me harry and i'll teach you expect me but no but i can't help but learn about it because i've been doing a really intense thing with you for four years now can i also just say this is really horrible but i feel like you've seen the bare bones well like you've seen i've seen the absence of you yeah that's i think i haven't seen um because it's so in the dark anymore yeah and i think that's the thing that i i think i've learned in the way that i think i would assume or just that the way i would react with these things is like if i feel sad although i go and seek out people whereas that is literally the opposite right like that is not what you would do no and i think that was um a thing that i've learned

that it's like not everyone would react to sadness in the same way yeah yeah i did actually have to like um well also i think you um it's why i well it's one of on my long list no yeah things that i'm referring to why i um love your company thanks so much also when you were saying about like not you don't have necessarily long periods of sadness you would have the awareness of like oh god i feel like shit yeah i'm just gonna see my friends that'll make me feel better yeah whereas mine would be like yeah i feel like shit but i'm not even conscious of it because that's just what my life is like i'm just a miserable person and it's not and also almost

sometimes you need to cross that certain threshold and then you can feel like shit while seeing your friends but you need to get through this whole other like underbelly of shit before that becomes an option yeah that's also just insanely complex like and i keep saying at the moment a phrase which i think is a testament to my lack of um desire to put effort into the way that i speak anymore so sorry i've got a podcast but i keep saying it's everything everywhere all at once which is just my kind of blanket statement of being like look it's too much to even get into it's too complex and it's too nuanced and it's just everything everywhere all at once like it's just so many things in one go like you can be out and functioning and be feeling the craziest worst things in the world and at the

same time your life can be on hold and you're feeling the worst things in the world and all of these things can be going like do you know what i mean there is no clean measurement of like it's it's not something that can be measured no obviously goes without saying no doesn't no goes with saying you think yeah should we rebrand goes with must be stated must be must be emphasized underlined the crux i even though you think it goes without saying well like it seems like a thing that's like oh well that's obvious to me that wouldn't be obvious to me at all what that people might not understand that you're sad or like there might be different ways it could play out it just is it just shows up for people in such different ways i think like

yeah i don't know and people don't talk like as much as people do i feel like people now like to state that like we do talk about mental health as a society we talk about it but we don't actually talk about what it is no i think it's like well we're now comfortable for someone to say i have anxiety i have depression i've only been mental health take a mental health day look after yourself look after your mind mindfulness and that's it but yeah if you actually dare yeah get any deeper don't you dare confess oh my god i haven't left my bed in four weeks yikes totally they'll scream the house down yeah it's sort of this weird um yeah kind of everyone sort of assumes we talk about it because we have these weird this weird lingo but actually what it is it's never really discussed one of those things where it's like the narrative of something takes over the reality of the situation itself like we were actually talking about i'll

be vague a date that someone had been on me there was a date that someone had been on um and well we might need to be vague because i'm about to give something we'll give it in a in a big way yeah give it in a way that just mix it up that they wouldn't recognize all right well okay if i were them i would be listening though it's like oh first episode that comes out since that date i'll be listening hi did you have a good time with my podcast i actually said to zeffie like just earlier the first time i've seen her since the date i said did i come up at all and i said not by name but my presence yeah very much called to the room as in the podcast everything you were very much

discussed but i never said my friend wig yeah full name yeah sometimes like we were talking about the date and we were saying that there's sometimes like we get ideas of things like narratives like i'm looking for someone who's funny or i'm looking for someone who's kind. is that okay? too specific. too specific. funny and kind. it's generic. at least i didn't say. that is actually kind. what can i say then? um. you did this. no I didn't. I just went on a date. I said, I'll give someone, someone went on a date and you said, yeah, it was me.

Is that what you're doing and what I'm going to say? Now I'm turning into a corner. Okay. Let me think. I can get it. Okay, we can use funny and kind. Fine, fuck it.

All right. Or you're looking for someone smart. Smart. Let's say we didn't want that. That was never a thing he asked for. Not important. So someone might think I'm looking for somebody who's smart.

I want someone who's smart. I want a girl who's smart. I want a boy, whatever. I'm looking for someone, when I go on a date with someone, when I have someone in my life, they need to be smart. And sometimes you can convince yourself

that somebody is smart. Obviously, if you're on a date with Sefi, you don't need to be convinced. It goes without saying. I would hope so. Smarts in the room, some may say. Me. Again. I would say yeah co-sign by sephie herself i agree um i'm joking by the way well ozzy is he is ozzy is cutie boy doogle boy sometimes it's kind of like you convince

yourself the story around a person or a relationship it's like if you've sold this idea of something of like we've been friends for so long i couldn't possibly disrupt that or like oh my god like yeah she's definitely smart she's definitely smart it's like well you know let's question start questioning these stories that we're telling ourselves and i brought that up because social media i feel like it's narrative of like yeah we tell ourselves that we talk about all the time and we're saying a lot without really saying anything at all it's like we're yapping but like there's no there's no real content in there it's not any debt no you're not actually discussing it we don't delve beneath the surface of like take a mental health day what even is that do you know what i mean it takes longer than a day as well it's like take one day

don't tell me to take a day boy because i'm i'll take the month it will make me feel so it makes me feel so bad well also um a day it's so capitalist like just so capitalist to be like you are allowed to struggle with mental health as long as it takes one day one working day to recover yeah that's not real it's luxurious in itself to be allowed to take a day well that's if you have a boss that's like and a job that allows you okay yeah sure we're like we're a cool woke company and take a day that's not happening or luxury is enough for a parent to be like totally actually listen to you and how you feel and whatever it's just mental it's really really um actually quite delusional i think i think it just i get

a bit wound up and that is very fair enough i guess it is fair enough yeah well it is fair enough if you're really struggling with a thing and then you see the narrative around being yeah take a day i think the thing that bugs me or like i think the thing that bugs me specifically in this space like as in like on social media or whatever like on the podcast is the idea that somebody could for whatever reason project onto you what the insides of your mind might look like yeah or try and kind of guess or assess where you are in the world and then therefore what you are allowed to feel or do or say or whatever. I just find it really honestly like embarrassing. I'm not liking the sound of it to be honest. For people to pretend they know about things

when they don't. Yeah. And what would you count within that? Like what have you seen that's wound you up? Oh, go on, there's a specific thing that's happened. There's a really specific thing, but if I wanna talk about it i want to like do it really properly and like not get lost in my words sort of thing so maybe i'll take a second yeah take a second of course um in the meantime

it's my calm harm streak yes my one year anniversary congratulations thank you so much to myself and let's celebrate properly tomorrow okay i feel like twice i'm happy to celebrate anything we celebrate tiny things actually also we kind of have the narrative of we're always talking about celebrating but we never but we don't but everything but everything is always like oh this is a celebratory burger it's a very small thing everything is a celebration it's almost like this is kind of a celebration celebration yeah these are celebratory greys and yeah a monster munch but like pick it on your monster munch obviously okay obviously that's wing's favorite i really wanted to try one but then i remembered yeah they're not vegan when i opened the packet my mouth watered so much that i said

i was gonna drown i love that you love them so much because they are undeniably really gross they're disgusting like it's not a good it's not like the guy you like says you don't want to hear the guy you like saying yeah i like pickled onion monster it's like you're a six-year-old boy you're a snotty little kid god but then you stink they are you but they kind of smell nice in like a really nostalgic way my mouth will drink

just thinking about them they're so good okay so do you prefer Monster Munch or Space Raiders because I know you're a fan of both I am a fan of both Monster Munch hit

a special place for me Space Raiders are a bit cheaper Space Raiders are hard they're harder yeah those are these are more melt in the mouth Monster Munch is more melt in the mouth but they are dense in a different way there's a lot to a monster munch it's like you pick up almost is it one bite like they're a bit of a two biter sometimes uh yeah no

i bite off the fingers or the feet or the teeth whatever they are yeah i do it one by one sort of thing well i don't know it's almost like he's got them in his mouth oh that's because he's eating them i think they're feet they're like claws aren't they monster munch they haven't really worked out the narrative of the piece the brand monster munch i liked it when they did like i think this is vintage i had a monster munch t-shirt that was like really cool me and my sister this is actually so sad i'll have to look for one lizzie's getting a lot of screen time so it was my dad's it was this this huge man's t-shirt. Oh God, something.

Monster munch with the old design on it. And me and Lizzie obviously loved it. I thought I would have killed you for it. Well, we slayed each other basically. I think I was wearing it and she wanted it so much and we're fighting over it and we ripped the neck. We literally ripped it in half because we were fighting over it so badly. Yikes. And I found it the other day because we didn fighting over it and we ripped the neck of white we literally ripped it in half because we were fighting over it so badly yeah and i found it the other day because we didn't

throw it away even it's completely ripped to shreds and maybe i could try and sew it up or something but it's that's quite funny to have it sewn back together it's like it just there's got layers yeah but we literally ripped it off my body wow or maybe or maybe i ripped it like costume change yeah but now i'm thinking i could have ripped it off her body like someone ripped it off someone yeah it was a big deal the monster bunch t-shirt i didn't know they had monster t-shirts and i had to find one i can probably find a photo of me in it oh it was huge as well you know when you're swimming in a dress yeah and it was just really cool at the time it was almost it felt really like it's landing with me sure i think it was probably like we both wanted to wear it on non-school uniform day or something so it was like a fight to the death for

the t-shirt oh god crazy yeah um right i'm still lost in my thoughts okay here we go yeah i'll just you know what i'll just i'll speak everything ever all at once and you guys you can make sense of it and if you don't like it please just leave like i actually can't i can't really handle it also don't worry about it like people i am worried okay let's go for it well there's nothing really to be worried about just yeah just in terms of narrative it's like i have i have said that i've made it seem more worrying than it is yeah um okay yeah and the question was i have no idea like what's bugging you yeah what's this thing because i'm getting the vibe that so sort of who's speaking your mental health like you know what's this it's not

even speak i okay someone's saying something that they don't understand. Yeah, people are saying things they don't understand. And I think they don't understand the gravity of what they're doing. I think they are generally, but I feel like there's one that's annoying you specifically. In honour of my one year calm harm streak, which by the way, I had quite a few questions of people being like, what app are you talking about? What is that? What's it called?

C-A-L-M. Calm. calm as in like calm your nervous system vibes like calm um calm the word calm guys guys how dumb are people but it's a word calm calm like karma like carmy like yeah but calm yeah calm the word calm calm calm yeah okay so calm harm anyway h-a-r-m i just i'm questioning how much i want to give yeah we've spoken about it before okay you don't have to give it anything well i'm also quite thank you i'm kind of also thinking what am I saying here and for who and for why that's kind of good questions to ask ourselves

I think repeatedly throughout the episode do you know what I mean yeah what is this by the way when you were opening your mouth why were you doing that yeah

and what was the point yeah is the point to help is the point to express well there's a part of me I think what I'm grappling with here my crux is like

I'm feeling selfishly like I'm gonna reflect on my own experience in my own life and it's like yada yada this whole thing is me me me and mental health and it's like why don't you shut the fuck up for once like well because you have a podcast and you literally can't i need to come here today and i'll see you in a few days as well and then the next week and then the week after that you can't get into the whole why don't you shut up thing because that's like you actually physically can't now um okay so that's kind of one of my cruxes as well

which kind of leads us in i think my thing with like people who are struggling with their mental health or like okay you've got someone annoying in your life who's dealing with their mental health whatever just know and this goes beyond mental health i guess generally most people if you're thinking something negative about them i almost guarantee they will have thought it a few hundred times multiple times before you even raised it to them and well done for just confirming that horrible thing that they had in their head for years and years and years well done yeah that i think that's a huge crux and something that i think cannot be understated i think just generally in life if you're ever going to say anything,

it doesn't matter who this person is, if you think they're above you, whatever. It's like every nasty thing you can think of a person, guaranteed, they know. Yeah. They fucking know. They replay it nightly. Like it's the worst things about ourselves

are the things we see. Like if you think a nice thing about someone, just keep it to yourself just rest in the comfort that i'm sure they're already trying their best to work on it and you won't have to deal with it for much longer yeah i'm sure you'll be okay i'm sure it's bugging you a little bit but like not as much as it's bugging them yeah be comforted by the thought that they're living in turmoil yeah um and yeah the the of my without giving too much i would just say just don't it's just annoying it is just annoying yeah yeah no i completely get that like it's also invalidating it's insanely invalidating and i think then when you're when we're speaking these huge terms of

like mental health it can be legitimately dangerous so i just think if you're engaging in these kinds of conversations online in the real world whatever try and remember that you don't know where your words might end up like you don't know well right in their pocket probably it's almost like your words are going to probably get right into the ears of the person that really doesn't need to probably live in the back of their skull for years to come yeah so as long as you're okay with that and i remember okay so this whole thing is underpinned we can't tell here we go the real crux is like probably about a year ago we had just a really silly review yeah and at the time it was quite devastating no it was truly devastating it was quite devastating and i would say dangerous to be honest like it's a silly thing it was no for a young person to be

engaging on the internet these are silly things to be throwing out sort of thing and you think you're coming in with like your big words and your online discourse and you need to shut the fuck up because you don't know what you're saying and you don't know your impact and also you don't know how the person is handling that because it wasn't but regardless they could handle it great but you shouldn't have done that no like no you just i think that there's an assumption i think for example with a review i think people think like oh that's a place that i can be critical and like they're they're sort of um they think they're sort of reaching out almost to like a media outlet i think it's their sort of um there's a part of it that's like this is my civic duty to let the

people know my thoughts on this podcast which is a nice thing to do and also and thank you for all the lovely reviews by the way genuinely and thank you so much everyone yeah and also there is totally room for critique and everything like goes it's necessary it's really necessary and it can be hard but it's really necessary it is and also there have been so many occasions where i don't know i've personally found them some to be really useful of like okay yeah that was useful to know that and yeah brilliant we can adapt yeah but that this one was undeniably an insane really really insane um just a bad idea and I remember saying at the time on the phone to you okay I'll deal with that now but I remember thinking because also why I think the review is particularly interesting is because then obviously you have no way of

talking back to them so it's like okay if your mate says something or like oh you get like a shitty dm yeah whatever also like these are really it starts to get quite vapid when you're speaking about like the online space and it's like we have a public podcast so totally part of it is like it's i'm inviting you to leave a review 100 um but i felt that frustration of like almost you're not infantilized but like you're um were you silent or were you silent you're kind of aerial yeah you're like prince eric i can't speak to you it's horrific um i remember saying to you at the time and we carried it through for a few things like okay i whatever i'll deal with that now.

I'll deal with that message. I hope you feel better. I hope you feel better now. You've got that off your freaking chest, you idiot. Just kidding. I hope you feel better now. Yeah. I hope you feel good now that you've got that off your chest.

Yeah. Because I'm dealing with it. And you probably think maybe I haven't even seen it. But I'll just let you know that I think about it still regularly. Oh, do you? Of course with it. Yeah. And you probably think maybe I haven't even seen it. But I'll just let you know that I think about it still regularly. Oh, do you? That's... Of course I do. Yeah.

In a way... Do you think of it in a way that's, like, that's living as just, like, an annoying thing? Or is that a thing that you think about and, like, still feel the, like... I think it's changed the whole way I do the podcast. And that's why, please, this person who wrote the last review... I think I'm worse on the podcast because of it. Because I censor myself more and I probably give watered down, boring takes. And I feel less myself in the space.

Oh, I hate that. Which is really annoying. I hate that. Which is really annoying, but also the crux is like, well, I know myself and I know my life. And that's sort of it. And here I am and I'll be here tomorrow. Like, yeah. my life and that's sort of it and here i am and i'll be here tomorrow like yeah acas powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend

nature i've got a gay rooster named francois is so gay these rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer.

And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com I also think there's a bit of it that's

maybe that is the horrific thing i also don't want this story to be too online hatey because it just becomes really like um kind of wanking each other off so you've got a few people listening to podcasts now boring like no but do you know what i mean so but yeah completely i. I completely agree. Like, I don't know. I almost think there's part of it that's like, maybe things do start out really pure.

Like even like if you think about like people that released albums. Yeah. Pre-social media, blah, blah, blah. They start off really pure. People start, they're expressing themselves purely. And then as there becomes more feedback, there's more like sort of complications involved. You become more aware of

yourself yeah listen to charlie exit yeah charlie xx a song called rewind you're brightening up it's just like yeah maybe it would be nice to go back to the days where i didn't for example her words overanalyze my face shape literally queen queen queen i love you so much charlie but like she's obviously listening now i speak directly to you directly to you charlie album of the summer absolutely smashing it um but like do things start off where it's like okay so it's pure yeah and it's us and then maybe we will just become more censored and sort of sad less interesting it's like you've been listening for a while and you think like oh i miss the days when they were kind of a bit crazy yeah they would say fresh things that i haven't thought of in a while it's

like yeah yeah i'm not really saying things that you haven't thought of because you are you are sometimes but generally i like to stay a bit safer now which is a shame but i feel like you're still making god what were you gonna say it's like jesus christ i think it's a good thing what takes her the best what some crazy takes have you got hidden i mean not even i just think yeah like you don't want to be so vulnerable yeah there's and there's fun and vulnerability and there's like also i just ultimately think there's such a necessary and why i love that we're still doing it. And also just generally in my life love that I'm still just like here, you know, getting on with my life.

Beyond the podcast, just in my real, on my real journey. Yeah. I think it's really necessary for people to like be weird and say things that are unique to them and like not live in the safety of watered down comfortable um shit frankly i true i think that and i know you believe that strongly oh well look at the fire that that's ignited behind my eyes that is i said too much that is for me the crux of the podcast of everything i i don't mean by any means that we're the only people on the internet having real conversations far from far from but i do think you're right with the like there there are there is a lot of watered down sort of stuff and i think especially

in terms of mental health that would hit hard and it also just is a load of bollocks. Like I do think the only thing I want to do here is have real conversations for real people. That hope, my thing that goes above it is also that I want people to feel good when they listen and like feel, I want women to feel empowered. That's like actually my biggest thing.

And have you noticed we're two women and I want us to feel empowered to speak for our own things. Have you noticed?'re two women and i want us to feel empowered to speak on our own things have you noticed our target market is right here and do we feel empowered i couldn't help but notice in fact we're screaming it women women women yeah and the whole thing is meaningless if we're not feeling empowered and good in ourselves which a lot of the time we're not and also then calls me back to and i've said this before as well and i we also end every episode by saying they assume the worst thing yeah i wasn't a joke yeah like and i also think we haven't really done much

reflecting on like the past couple years maybe it's like you've been here you maybe have been here a couple years hey if you're new just hey always hi hello hi i love you so much um but like we there have been different stages of this and like i just never want anyone to doubt for a second that assume the worst was born out of us like joking around and not meaning it it was very much like so you wouldn't see me for weeks months a year i'll talk to you for a year but for one year but i was for a different reason literally disappear off the face of the earth and like lovely now that i'm still here to talk about it yeah but lots of people aren't and so when they're making jokes or like dealing thing with things in the way that they want to deal with it or whatever yeah have a little bit of

perspective that like you might not know everything you don't your thoughts and feelings and words might not always be useful and um i hope you're okay yeah genuinely i wonder if you are ever listening and if you are i'm really annoyed at you still yeah and that's that and just back to the same message of, I hope that. I hope that made you feel better. Yeah. Because it really, really put me on a downward spiral. Yeah, it did. Yeah.

And look at you now though. Look at you now. Look at you now. And ultimately I have a podcast. I can talk, I can say that I'm on a downward spiral. I can do this for an hour and I can come back on Thursday and I can keep going.

And you can't stop me. We can talk about anything. Don't test me. We could talk about whatever we wanted. Try it as you might. Try it as you might. You can't stop me we could talk about anything don't test me we could talk about whatever we wanted try it as you might try it as you might you can't stop us

could we though I mean there's nothing you could talk about Fright Night for four hours I would just let you I'd have no choice physically we might have no listeners

but we might but you could talk for four hours into the void and you can't stop us you can't hold us back do you know what I mean so you're lucky actually that we're giving you some relatively interesting topics Into the void. And you can't stop us. You can't hold us back.

Do you know what I mean? So you're lucky, actually, that we're giving you some relatively interesting topics when you think about it. I think that's pretty deranged, personally. But yeah, I agree with the sentiment, but also deranged. It's like, look, we could really talk about anything. So generally speaking,

I think we're pretty lucky that we're going with what we're going with. I'm happy with what we're going with, for sure. I'd like a bit more from you, sorry, because I'm just going to be on and on and on. No, but I need it. It's great. It's great. I need it for the...

I need it. Yeah, just give whatever you want to give then. No, I actually can't talk about this because it is too... Oh, please. Go on. It's your podcast. Do it. Do it. It's on it's your podcast do it do it it's quite a shmeagle do it shmeagle pre-gollum do it do it it's awful oh gollum go on do it um you can talk about whatever you want on your own podcast well let me run it by you first of all okay so um there

was a message that i got no let's cut this we'll talk about later actually oh god it's tempting though isn't it because it's just annoyed me it's just like deranged it's fucking deluded it's like god you've come knocking on every door and deluded the blinds are shut like don't come in here you're blocked actually have you blocked yeah blocked Jesus okay get rid of all of that okay well can I leave maybe like can I talk about this

and then the lights are on blah blah blah have you blocked them yeah and then sure but maybe let's get from social media

get away away from it I feel like I've been going do you know what I mean oh look I've got literally like 20 people listening big whoop

honestly big whoop I had 100 people listening to my podcast and it ruined my life oh my god god did you actually contribute anything

worthwhile to society no you do contribute worthwhile to society thank you I don't really have anything you'll have to spur me on I can steer you

yeah I can steer you into the pit. Thank you. What's it called when they throw a man overboard? Oh yeah, walk the plank. Kind of push you out. Yeah, help me walk the plank.

I don't know. Oh, this is it. Okay, another reason that we wanted to have this conversation is because because and look as previously emphasized i can't bother to get into a scrap of anybody over this okay just take what i'm saying in one ear out the other you're in a weird mood today i'm just gonna put it out there you are yeah you are actually how you're quite like i'm a bit like leave me alone like if you zoom out we're sitting in a room with a tiny little microphone

screaming to my phone don't talk to me it's like what oh sorry i don't want to be coming my backup but maybe that is the energy but i think i'm a bit of a porcupine hey it's also the nature of all of this stuff is that it does get your backup but then also there's also the we have the voice in the back of our heads of like not stop getting your back up weirdo and also we're not talking to you like you're nice you're listening right now you're the nice one i swear to god like and also we love 99.99 i hope that goes without saying like i hope so we're in bits in every episode saying i love you guys so much. Are you okay? Are you okay?

It's like, all right. Yeah. We get it. We're up your asses. We are. We're a bit goody two-shoes. Sometimes we're a bit mental. And I think it's all right.

And I think it's all right. Yeah. Okay. So what I'm about to say, can you just, the crux, underpin it all by the concept that you don't really care what i'm

saying do you yeah go on little wing on a podcast like what even is this you haven't even you haven't been listening that long you're not that invested okay it's not that big of a deal you don't really care do you that's so not true okay let's go yeah we were having a bit of this conversation earlier and what kind of spurred this on is something we've said time and time again. It's a conversation we've had just with our, we've had it solo. We've had it just us. We've had it behind the pod's back.

We've had it probably on the pod. We've had it definitely with our manager. Freya. Freya. Queen. We love her. How dare I? Yeah, we love, we love, we love.

We love. And we've had the conversation of some sense of the undeniable awareness that there is a depth brought to somebody or yes an ability to understand and relate to and connect with the depth of themselves and their fellow human beings through experiencing shitty times yes hard situations yeah i don't want that to be a controversial i'm not trying to say anything more than like oh when you have a bit of a shitty day you might come out of it feeling a little bit more grateful for your friends and things like that i'm

not trying to call anyone out and be like you've had an easy life haven't you no no that's not what i'm saying at all and i obviously at this point i'm speaking from a lovely privileged position a lovely table with sephi there's some flowers here i'm speaking to you there's a monster do you know what i mean things are pretty sweet right now hey yeah within reason yeah but generally i do find that there's a disconnect a disconnect or like a lack of i keep saying at the moment the sacred text sometimes you give something to someone you tell someone something you open up the law of your life l-o-r-e you give them a little piece of something that means something to you it's your sacred text

this is your divine being this is something so close to the heart that if you push it one way or the other you might die it will sting so much that you will combust like these things are painful and raw and so real i think and that's not to say that like having a little conversation with your friend and you're laughing a little bit that is also real but when things are drawn from the experience of like something really richly painful or richly challenging it creates something really visceral and they're hard to talk about it's sacred yeah and sometimes if you were and i hope you are and you are definitely not lucky enough to have the experience that you've never you've never understood any of that you've never had any hardship whatever it's not you sorry i believe you you've been through it yeah and most people have and i'm speaking to like kind of like

a real teeny capitalist kind of white supremacist supremacist anomaly of a person who has lived a very vanilla life easy engaging with they're gonna find sriracha hot they're gonna find a buffalo wing too spicy they can't handle yeah can't handle the heat that you're bringing with your sacred text this is so are you with me yeah i'm totally with you but i'm listening through listeners ears like what the hell but yeah i'm totally with you i think it's tricky as well because people that have it relatively easy i don't think there's even a recognition of the fact that it has been easy i think everyone thinks they've had quite a difficult

life but then sometimes when you say things that have happened to you when it's met with a shock sometimes it's like okay well this is a thing that happened and it's met with the show i don't know there's certain people that i would tell things and certain people that I wouldn't because I know that they wouldn't receive the sacred. They wouldn't physically be able to understand. I think like it's like you can kind of understand on, you can accept it and stuff, but I think there's certain things it's like you don't get it actually.

Like I wouldn't give that to you. Yeah. And that's the bit that's interesting is like then by not giving the sacred text by not giving something rich and personal or having it not received very well we can only then the consequence the natural consequence of that is yeah now there's a wedge between us just slightly yeah and it doesn't even have to be deep but it's just intriguing that we are separated by these experiences or by our understanding of experiences totally yeah completely but i also think most people if or like not an easy life i

think a lot of people don't necessarily think they've had a hard life they don't have the awareness of how hard they've had it at the same time totally yeah um and both can be true like there's you can be privileged and also completely fucked over by the world in one yeah totally like i i can just think of like there's so many things that i feel so grateful for in my life i feel so lucky to have it easy in so many ways and then i also have the awareness of some things that are abnormal like majorly abnormal and wrong and scary and stuff that people can never relate to or like a lot of people can't relate to and yeah i don't know it both can be true at once that you can feel like the luckiest person in the world but also that all of that stuff is crazy um

yeah i think that what i find interesting there's an interesting conversation i think to be had and we won't have it now unfortunately of like the idea of how much of your shit how much of like all the murkiness in that water is what makes you like well this is what i love when it starts being like oh turns out truly you are the luckiest person in the world because all of that stuff actually built you into an interesting funny cool clever i do ultimately person i couldn't feel that more strongly yeah no i completely agree i totally feel like i have a lot of good qualities and so many of them are nothing but emphasized yeah by the shit that i experienced yeah like because it builds i don't know so much yeah empathy just everything you have to basically oh i don't know, so much. Yeah, empathy, just everything.

You have to basically, oh, I don't know. Yeah, I completely think- I think some people don't like that. Oh, sorry. No, I just think when I actually think of the best, my best qualities, like my deepest, best qualities, every single one of them is really a result- Can only be amplified by.

I think it's like a direct result of the way that I've grown up in a unique way yeah and it actually has made me into this person which i'm not gonna lie i think is pretty pretty great like yeah and i think it's not even like oh i was already like that and it enhanced it's like i've actually adapted and learned these things which are which are my like kindness empathy all of those things are a direct response to that i was actually thinking two things second one takes us down another route so i'll just first one is us kind of it's me licking your ass basically so i'll get that one out my ass or harry's kind of both of us no no ours and also

harry good for you finding this i guess thank you and lots of both of ours. No, no, ours. And also, Harry, good for you for finding this, I guess. Thank you. And lots of love to you. For being here, honestly. No, no, but I'm going to insinuate that we're quite special. Okay, okay. I was just having a talk the other day about our kind of weird, fucked up lives. And I was thinking like...

Which shouldn't be understated, actually. Weird, fucked up lives. We're not joking. We're just a little Caesar together. Yeah, noated actually weird fucked up we're not joking kind of caesar together yeah no weird and fucked up we've had weird and fucked up lives and like i don't i'm not saying that lightly and i wouldn't throw terms around like that willy nilly i'm being dead serious there's some weird shit going on over here like yeah there's some strange devastating things that have been happening with us um or that have happened in our upbringing and have made us who we are and i was just kind of

thinking well yeah it makes sense doesn't it that then you'd find a microphone and be like somebody it just kind of does make sense it's like yeah we have had um quite specifically obscure strange horrible yeah in weirdly overlapping ways as well like the timeline the timeline is really specific the timelines are the same but with different events but yeah no they are weird the timelines are specific yeah um and my second thing was going about chloe kardashian okay mind when we're talking about um the awareness that people have over like you're living something really hard and yet you don't you're not even conscious of it because that's just your life and you see so much with children or so much for example with the ursula voiceless girls out there like yeah of like oh no this is just it this is just your horrible life or like there are so many ways like socially obviously like gender race sexuality like so many of these things impact the way that we

feel then add in like your fucked up family and like your horrible teachers and your shitty friends like it's just a mess um we when i was actually editing but you were watching me picking up the oh yeah it's the other week and i had to keep pausing it because i could see you laughing i was like i need to engage whatever is going on here which is to be honest let's be real that show is laughable laugh out loud at them i must say but there was a bit there was a bit with chloe kardashian really i just i so think this is her it's the crux of this yeah bit of the conversation which she was like i'm not sure i mean you were the one who watched it so i know what you're gonna say yeah she kind of said something like you know like the

past few years like my relationship with tristan or whatever yeah it's been difficult like you know it's it's traumatic too strong of a word and the producer was like no weirdo it's not like absolutely horrific obviously undeniably as a human being been put through a situation that is traumatic at the same time we're living in a world where chloe kardashian's trauma is if entertainment yeah entertainment and like generally speaking when we're considering like privilege and class and all these things so outweighed by the reality of what the majority of life looks like for the majority of other human beings on the planet do you think so like of course it does like i remember having an argument

with someone about this about justin bieber yeah i just think you can't measure sadness no of course you can't like or pain or hurt or shit but this is why the two things can exist at once i think there's like i am pretty strongly anti-kardashian like i'm anti-billionaires like i'm truly against this stuff but i don't think that her suffering her suffering seems insane it's legitimate but it no it seems off the off the fucking chart like you could not pay me billions of pounds to live her life it like genuinely and i feel like lots of people wow like it looks horrific to like a horrific just an insane scale and i think like both things can exist at once like yeah you can be living in this extreme wealth and which is obviously like a fucking dream it goes without

saying like you're living in this weird thing but also also the shit, the Tristan shit is crazy. Like I don't think I could actually survive that. Like I don't find that a survivable thing to happen. A stomachable situation. The surrogate stuff and the labour stuff, all of it. Like the way that I think we have a real like a difficulty because of just the way that it is with like them being so far at the top. It's like, but her life,

her actual like singular, pluck it out from the rest of it. Obviously she's in this insane thing in which I disagree with in literally every conceivable way. But I feel so much pity for that girl. I literally think, oh my goodness,

like you are living hell you're living in hell actually you are yeah i hear that and i do find it funny her being like is traumatizing a strong enough word because that shows to me the whole thing exactly what a traumatized person would say but it's all reinforced about because i'm living in a mansion that is all painted white with a weird beige sofas in every room and everything i've got my oreos stacked up i couldn't possibly be suffering look at all my beautiful biscuits look at my biscuits i will never eat my beautiful oreos how could i possibly be traumatized yeah because would a traumatized person have this no it's exactly that it's look at this around i've got a peacock in my garden and blah blah blah i couldn't possibly be traumatized it's like

but this shit is insane yeah like when we're actually dealing with it and the awareness or the acknowledgement that chloe kardashian is living a difficult situation doesn't at the same time detract from the other hardships that other human beings all over the world yeah it's just the two things goes out saying can exist i think that's the crux of everything of yeah everything ever all at once like what if it was all true but it's just it's just capitalist again because we assume that like um someone with money cannot be miserable and that that literally is the whole purpose of capitalism to keep us working and working to get to this goal true but then i think it's also in the same breath hugely capitalist to for people that insinuate that money doesn't solve people's

problems it does six is everything everything like it's great and those two things can exist at the same time it thing is it does literally solve every fucking problem until until your problems get to that level where it's like and now you have a baby with this it's like that didn't solve it no you still have that and i don't know what you fucking do chloe like jesus christ it's insane i hope you're okay chloe yeah coke cocoa do they call her that they are honestly despicable oh should we get out of here yeah let's do it i'm not mad at this no i really like this one okay I like when we record in person I wish we had like two mics but well we do but

it doesn't really work we'll work something out maybe you could bring your mic and your laptop yeah we'll see see how this goes but I hope you've

perfect I hope you've bared through this guys yeah I hope you've enjoyed it wave of the storm yeah I think it's been a good episode of a podcast

of an entertainment show alright if you don't hear from us, assume the worst