Goes Without Saying - "fake it till you make it": sun in confidence, moon in performance

Episode Date: May 1, 2022

A is for Anxiety, B is for But It's In Secret!!!join the conversation every monday.come and chat in our book club!speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram!you’re invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/zuPH7gyeGp Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying that you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. And I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And today we're talking about faking it till you make it, confidence, how to overcome anxiety by just not pretending to be someone else, but maybe are there some ambiguous elements of faking till you make it. And we're having a lot of fun.

I really enjoyed this conversation. So I hope you do too. I mean, how do we start? I don't know. How do you feel? I feel frantic i feel like um it would be bizarre to go into this episode being like so fake it you make it blah blah when like we haven't like as if we haven't just had like an hour conversation of stress of like shit we don't have enough time for this we're doing this like blah blah blah we're i'm bringing

frantic stress energy guys our next week is insane i don't know about you but i'm bringing yeah stress i'm up for it though oh okay great we've switched i'm just relaxing okay chaos is my fave to explain i'm just gonna enjoy it to explain ourselves obviously the merch is coming wait we haven't actually like said that explicitly by the time you hear this by the time you hear this the merch came out a few days ago oh god no no that's not true that's not true no no the merch is coming out in a few days oh what a roller coaster oh god we had you on the edge of your seat no nobody moved nobody cares um in a few days okay in a few days yeah no yeah friday merch will be out i'm still like in the

hypothetically maybe that i think we're just saying there's merch coming should we say how we're doing it like should we tell the story uh how are we doing it i don't know i'm still trying to figure out how we're doing it are we saying about a cast oh sure go go go take it away so i think the technical term in the industry is we were approached people reached out they reached out um to us basically they sent an email a cast our provider where who was kind of giving you this whole podcast right now well we're giving you the podcast they just give us a basically they give us a link to host it they give us a platform there's no hand holding going on here i just want to make it very clear like we are very much in the dark in the deep end every week yeah this isn't produced by

anyone yeah i think i think that much has been clear the whole time to be honest imagine we were like this is broadcast is brought to you by the bbc no this is two girls in their bedrooms still well we got an email saying do you want to do merch with a cast and spring you've probably heard of spring and we said yes yes a hundred times yes so we got to well we ain't got to design so many amazing things and oh my god they are so stunning like i just can't wait for everyone to see them i've been screaming one thing has arrived for me so far that's so exciting this is why we've been having a stress because um from like what everyone would want from us is to just drop the merch and have it done have it launched to be honest they wanted us to launch today but sephi and i i mean i was like putting

my foot down into the depths of hell and maybe it's so clear that i cannot tell you guys to go and buy something when i haven't seen it or blah blah so literally not a fucking way that is happening not a goes without saying not no way in hell is that happening so goes without saying we are like making sure that we're completely obsessed with it before we put our names to it and share it and blah blah blah the one thing that's arrived for me so far god i'm obsessed oh it's so cute it's so cute um and also obviously like shipping and everything we'll talk about this more like on the day but in terms of costs we're doing everything in our power oh my god to make sure that obviously you'll still have to pay shipping like there are some things that we there's nothing we can do about it unfortunately

um there's only so much a girl can do you know but we are really trying to make sure that obviously everything is like priced fairly or just as cheap as we can get it basically as cheap as we can humanly get it like for you just as accessible as possible a range of items a range of prices a range of vibes a range of vibes i feel like it's just i'm giving a tutorial on how to make a fun thing really stressful and scary but i just need to relax and just because i'm like i'm like oh my god like i'm nervous that people are gonna get it like that makes me scared that makes me happy capricorn because it makes you happy money bags no no not like that at all i'm joking the thought of like seeing someone on a bus

holding an item with one of our little things on i would screech i would screech that bus to a halt i feel ill i feel actually ill right let's just okay let's move on fake it till you make it hey um but please do buy it if it comes out well it is coming out but please buy it i mean to be honest if it comes out who knows at this point who know i might just be like guys i can't do this no no no it's incredible thoughts on fake it till you make it my thoughts are it's my whole philosophy in life really it's your hakuna matata well it's one of my my driving um philosophies yeah nice can you tell us about did you tell us about your um your life philosophy was that on the podcast or was that just in private how many do i have

you had one a big one the other day you had a big epiphany about that's your philosophy. Remember? Why am I saying that to people if that's my philosophy? What? No one asked you to have a philosophy. It's your new slogan. You don't remember what I'm talking about. That's my manifesto. No, what was my philosophy?

You said, I don't want to take your punchline from you, but you said that you're an absurdist. And that's your philosophy. That's your big philosophy. It's your big's your big mantra well first of all i need to do some googling but i don't know if you said that on the podcast already no no because it's a new it's a new philosophy but we're recording every five minutes so i don't know at this point this is another reason why we're stressed obviously my three weeks i'm going to i haven't actually made this clear this is the first time you're going to hear it probably um we've been pre-recording so like my head is just scrambled um i'm going i'm going to be in the dominican republic for three weeks if you're in the dominican hey come see me um for my brother

my my boyfriend oh fuck me my boyfriend's brother wedding. And I'm going to be there for three weeks. So it's just me flexing on everyone. It's a big wedding bonanza extravaganza. Wedding bonanza. And I'm going to be hopefully having a really... I just hope I can have a bit of relaxing time. Because I just feel like I'm in a blender. I feel insane.

I just feel so scared. But it's all good. There's no jump scares in the dominican it's only good vibes so yeah if you don't hear from me assume that i'm maxing relaxing in the dominican but we're pre-recording so i don't know what we're saying or when we're saying it or what's going out when on blah blah blah anyway you're an absurdist sorry i mean i hope you have an amazing time in the dominican i can't wait for you to go i can't wait to be to fuck off i mean i think no i was gonna say you'll be knowing if i'm having a good time in the doing because i'm sure i'll be talking to you 24 7 anyway um so i don't i need to google the word before i claim that i am one because i've never googled it i almost feel like it's a style of art but i had really realized what is my like attitude to life and i was like i am an absurdist but i think it's a style of art but i don't know if people will do it in their life it is too but it can also be right hang on what makes someone

an absurdist so for example designating or holding the belief that human existence is absurd irrational meaningless this is me this is it is you but when i thought i thought that's it it's just all a fucking absurd piece of shit and i love it i completely agree i did not do this philosophy in philosophy i have to say i've never studied this well i don't i've only heard of it yeah as in like absurdism yeah but like i've never known of for example the absurdist philosopher albert camus camus stated that individuals should embrace the absurd condition of human existence. He sounds like a laugh. He sounds like a hoot.

He sounds like the kind of philosopher I want to be sat around the cave with, looking at the flashing lights on the wall. Nice. Well, I love that. I love all these new philosophies you're bringing us. Fake it till you make it is one of them hey i think so i think it's just a powerful tool i think it's just important especially if you struggle with any kind of anxiety or anything like that i remember at uni i think i've said this before but when i was an anxious wreck at uni couldn't go to lectures couldn't go to seminars i found faking it to make it one of the most powerful kind of tools that i had just to be like okay you're gonna walk into this room

you're gonna be fucking shaking but you're gonna act like the shit and somehow that kind of gets you through rather than you go in like hi everyone it's like just walk in with the confidence and if you can just trick yourself for like half an hour yeah it changed the game for me it's been quite a controversial topic of discussion i wasn't expecting this at all actually no really interesting remarks from people on the instagram but just tying into what you just said um i thought this person had a really genius kind of way of putting it and they said that thoughts can be very powerful i've been lying to myself that i suck for years so it's like yeah it's like fake it it's kind of okay you don't like faking it so you make it okay but you're happy to fake it till you break it

for some reason why don't you try something else your perception is already wrong it's just not in your favor we've had a lot of so a lot of people said so for example this person said it can make you hyper fixated on how you present yourself and like a lot of people were like i'm scared that people will know that i'm faking it someone said people can smell fake confidence from a mile away which is oh shit that's really but there were a lot of people saying like faking it to you make it is not like authentic to me and it kind of detaches me from how from the true my real emotions and things like that yeah but then i was thinking my crux or my offering to that would be what if i didn't like so for example um you have a presentation at work or like in a seminar or

something work school whatever you have a presentation to give I feel like that's the kind of one that I hear all the time it's a terrifying situation quaking in your books yeah you think faking it till you make it is going to be disingenuous or it's just not it doesn't feel authentic to you you can't it doesn't feel authentic to you to get up there and give a good presentation super calm or confident or whatever what if i didn't call it fake it till you make it and what if i just called it trying like yeah why don't you try do you know what i mean yeah what if i didn't say you're faking something? What if I just said you're just trying out what it would be like... To be confident in a situation.

To relax into giving a presentation. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Because... It's because it's got the word faking. Just because you don't yet identify with it doesn't mean it can't be true to you. Yeah, completely.

I love that. And I agree with you. I think it is a philosophy because I think faking it till you make it can be useful. Because if you fake yourself into just like one little step up the ladder, or you just faked it one step up, and now you're a little bit more comfortable, and now you're just going to fake it again one more time. Oh, you're another step. Your feet are off the ground now. And now suddenly, oh, you're kind of climbing up the ladder just hands free even how is she doing that wow oh my god she's walking on water

but like before you know it you've kind of pushed yourself slightly out of your comfort zone and i agree that i think because it has fake it in it just like in a kind of semantic sense just the language of it might not be, might not sound very desirable or like very true to you or authentic. It seems like it goes against your authentic self. But I just think it's a, it's almost like it's a means to an end. It's not a way to be with your friends,

with your family. It's for situations where you feel out of your comfort zone, potentially even like out of your depth it's like okay now is a chance to rise to a different level of myself which i don't feel like i've done before i don't think it's a situation for i'm gonna fake it till i make it at the dinner table with my grandma unless that's a situation where you feel out of your depth yeah of course but it's about um yeah a presentation it's all of these situations where yeah you don't feel like you have an authentic place there because you're fucking

shaking and maybe it's like i think it's about what gets you through it and what's the most pleasant way you can get through it yeah i can do the presentation and i can do it with my face bright red there are potentially tears in my eyes my vision is going or i can do it i can walk in in a fucking great outfit and i can walk in like i own the place and go hey everyone be a little confident girl doesn't feel like me at all doesn't feel like me at all it's not how i feel i've just been in the toilets shaking but it was a more pleasant experience for me to get through that environment yeah yeah and it's a means to an end it's not for it's not for your daily life now oh my god you're such a fake bitch because you went in and just

like acted like you weren't nervous do you know i mean it doesn't mean you're fake because you faked it yeah and sometimes it's your only chance to get in the room if you're if you're you're in the fucking boardroom meeting they're not gonna allow little sweaty mcgee in are they they're not letting her in yeah i agree i love it they're letting in kind of jan from the office is how i'm picturing my fake it to make it so sure i think it's so funny wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th.

It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay ro we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals.

Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple.

Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com. Was there ever a time that you were like, I'm going to have to fake my way through this? Like maybe for the first time. Do you know what I mean? Was there a first time that you tried it?

Oh my God, I can picture it now. Because it's literally... It's so absurd because like i have a name for it like it it's a it's a known joke in my family let me just work out whether i can say yeah how are you gonna say it the name of it because it's the name of a club i used to do like that's like what like brownies no no no i was comfortable with anything in brownies i was gonna say i think you can say brown no no it's like a specific like club in the in the village yeah yeah um i think it was the first time i ever experienced anxiety and i didn't have a name for it and it was okay it was a drama

club it was like with kids like a few years older than me like i was the youngest by quite a way and it was like kind of kids that were doing like actual drama in my eyes, not musical theatre. And I thought, well, 100% I want to be a part. Joined the club, all kids older, and it was called Whippersnappers. Oh, you are saying the name. Nice. They were great.

Like it was the coolest thing ever. It's probably not, doesn't exist anymore maybe. Yeah. I was about fucking 12. Wait, you were 12. 12 sorry and they were like teenagers well i was probably actually about what year are you in year seven and eight um what like how old are you yeah how old are you like 13 14 like 11 12 yeah so i was i was in like year seven year eight and they were like year nine year ten eleven even maybe some year twelves in there

bloody hell wow jesus i think there was one girl that was just one year above me but she was like year nine which was different to year eight i think very different year nine yeah 100 it's like you're not child you're in another league yeah although you are um but i remember it was would be before i would go it would be like i would literally say like i'm getting the whippersnapper feeling like it's the whippersnapper feeling and now i just know that so cute but now i know that to be called anxiety but i remember in those um in the little hall as if it was the whippersnapper group that had given you this kind of bug and it's like oh this is the feeling i get before this thing yeah and it was literally in the same hall that i did brownies and guides in like it was

i knew the hall well but different people obviously not my gang wow that's funny that it was the same room there's only like one vacant room in my town it's like so those four walls saw very different versions of you oh they knew i was faking it till i made it the walls were whispering if the walls could talk you'd be in trouble this girl how she's acting but i just remember having to be like as the first time i'd experienced anxiety or slash the whipsnap feeling um being like okay you can't let these people know that you're shaking and you're terrified and i had to do like a love scene like there was like i had to do a romantic we were doing a love scene yeah we're putting on a play and the guy was in like year 10 a love scene as in like sex no just a

kiss a love scene is a love scene we were lovers we were lovers in the play and we had to look into each other's eyes okay say nice whispers sweeten up oh my god okay we just had to do like a thing and i obviously had such a like crush on him as like a little kid of course painful um and it was like this guy can't know how nervous i am sort of like and did he know i think i i think i pulled it off honestly well done everyone round of applause round of applause he definitely didn't fancy me back i mean how old was he i mean if you were 11 and he was 17 then i would hope he didn't yeah so true he probably yeah it's probably like a child to him he probably thought it was a bait but i mean quite interesting to be cast as lovers actually yeah it was just a limited cast yeah people had to play loads we may do we may do nice okay and you faked it yeah i remember the first time i had moved um

like school oh my god and i moved school a couple of times and it was yeah it was the first day i'd ever done that and i just thought you know what i'm just gonna choose to like not be nervous wow because also i'd come from like i'd come from being established obviously you are established but like i came from like being pretty confident in where i was in school i was a child by the way this is not like late secondary school this is i was probably like 10 or 11 and i remember i walked right in and i walked up to i kind of like looked around the playground was kind of sussing things out and i found like a group of girls i thought that's probably going to be where i slot in yeah and i walked right up to them i said hi i'm new like i don't know anyone here like do you mind if i just like sit with you today like chat

whatever like i'm gonna go in with you like blah blah blah wow i'm just kind of introduced myself so confident but i don't know if i was faking that i think i thought i definitely thought to myself in preparation like the morning of the night before i'd kind of decided like almost it's in your benefit to do it that's in your interest exactly and i think i am a bit just like that like i was very much like that at uni like i was not nervous for uni weren't you which was probably silly because i got dealt a shit hand in terms of like flat and everything but yeah i don't know i i think i i think i was quite independent by that point and i was definitely very independent by that point of university so i felt like going to uni i felt

like oh my god fucking walk in the park mate as in the first day of uni yeah like move like all of that i just felt like yeah what like was was not i felt like i'd done that i felt like i'd moved on from that fear like a few years prior yeah completely do you know what i mean i just felt like this is fucking light work mate like this is gonna be fun like this is my time this is not a scary thing for me this is a fun thing i was just excited that first day in the flat as well like when everyone is like making their like hi i'm this like trying to make their first impressions oh my god so fun hi everyone yeah and you're calling everyone like okay that one is like the ginger one that one's the stripy one she's wearing a stripe no i think that's just

you that's just me i think well i think i always say this but you definitely like you and like within your flat definitely like you had names for everyone at uni okay i love this message really opens up the playing field i think it's all for the taking this person said i hate in capitals fake it until you make it laughing face as someone who has been working very very hard on building her self-esteem This person said, I hate, in capitals, fake it until you make it, laughing face. As someone who has been working very, very hard on building her self-esteem, faking it has never worked for me. It's only increased my sense.

It's only increased my sense. Fear of a name only increases fear of a thing itself. That's not what they said. That's just a little extra for me. A little extra spice. This person said, I've been working very hard on building their self-esteem. Sorry, I'm not trying to undermine you. It's only increased my sense of imposter syndrome and overall anxiety. Over time, I've learned to ask myself, what do you need in this moment to feel more confident? What is holding me back? I've often found that most of the time the answer is attainable and

within my reach. Like for example, a shower and a clean face change in perspective seeking out more knowledge or readjusting my goals i mean i'm sold fuck fake it god i'm so amazing i think the emphasis is on like i remember we've had this conversation before where i think fake it till you make it can be really useful if you can also accept that you are feeling anxious or feeling nervous or whatever i think fake it till you make it should not be synonymous with like bullying yourself into being a different person oh my god fake it till you make it should be the kind of one of the tools or resources that you can use to get yourself through experiences more easily a difficult situation exactly it should be something that helps you not like sets you back and it has to be done with some kind of i would say absurdism it has to be done

with some kind of light-heartedness it can't be i'm trying to mask yeah my disgusting true self my truth with this like beautiful person it's like no no it's still you you're just tapping into a different energy of you to get through something that makes you feel like shit 100 it's almost like i'm not necessarily and again we're talking about the semantics of faking it but it's you're not necessarily bringing out something that isn't true you are just trying to kind of up, like broaden your mind of what you think you are capable of. Yeah. And also, if you think about, I've been thinking about this in terms of so many things, but if you actually think the motivation of fake it till you make it, for example, is actually just self-love. You're

trying to get, basically say it's like okay i've got to do this presentation i've got to do the job interview i've got to go on this date whatever it is it's something that you're trying to bring into your life to improve your life that you think i deserve to have a seat at that table i deserve to um get that fucking job i deserve to be in the boardroom i fucking deserve to get with that stunning guy whatever you want it's an act of self-love and if and i don't think you should be denying any part of yourself okay so i'm gonna mask myself i'm gonna change myself to be the person that has that thing but i do think the motivation for getting the thing that you

desire is out of this want for a better life for yourself yeah and i think let's use the tools then let's use the tools we have go by whatever means necessary yeah and if you can get confidence and it's just a confidence game every single fucking thing in this life is a game of confidence and perception and absurdism that's why i love 100 that's why i loved when that person said basically like well i've done the alternative for years it's like i've faked shittiness for a long time that wasn't necessarily true it isn't necessarily true if you'd say you're not capable of doing this you're a piece of shit you're terrible you're not good enough blah blah blah those things aren't true yeah but you're more than happy to fake that go along with every little

thing exactly who says the anxious you is the real you no your perception is just shifted to the negative 100 uh-huh which i mean i can't blame you like look at this world we're in it's hard no no no but also like you shouldn't feel like that no when you have the perspective and the awareness of that's what you're doing to be able to try and challenge it is kind of amazing i thought that would bring us into a whole new convoy but that was four minutes it did no i think it did i think for me that it's just all about perception everything i'm realizing is just perception like and it's kind of the there's we've spoken before about like for example there's a thing between body positivity and body neutrality and this idea that it's like okay so you feel so negative about your body you've been told through this fucking world that you should feel so bad basically no matter what your

body looks like there's going to be something wrong with it yeah you should feel fucking you should be wanting to change this you should be actively taking steps towards changing this body neutrality is this thing we should all aim for where it's nothing we think about but for some people it's easier to flip that towards body positivity where it's like okay we're going to go for the opposite of what you've been taught let's just try out the opposite if you've been told to hate something let's try to love it and i think it's kind of similar with this that it's like okay so you've been told that you're a piece of shit and you're anxious and you feel shit and you're depressed whatever you've fucking been told all the narrative you've been

building over these years all of the shit you're going to be shaking in the presentation let's try the opposite of it and somewhere probably in the middle of that is the quote-unquote real you of how you actually feel without the layers of perception that have been built on top of this but let's try for it for the next 10 minutes to do the complete opposite of what we've been told and i do think that's the same as body positivity as just like let's flip it on its head try it out for size just be willing to change your perception or just like oh i'm losing the point what that was a perfect point what the hell sometimes when i think i'm coming out with great points and then i'm just like right you're gonna lose it now and then i lost it then no it is the perfect point and i

completely i completely agree with you it's the classic thing of why don't I just try the alternative? Like if I've been playing this whole game as hating myself, let me just try. But I also think before you get there, there has to be that kind of almost like the zooming out thing. There has to be like a bit of a break a bit of breathing room for you to also kind of come to terms with the fact that or there has to be a bit of breathing room for acceptance in that maybe this presentation doesn't matter or this presentation might not go

my way or even if i do the whole confidence thing and i really embrace it and i really try and all of these things it still might not go my way and am i okay with that yes like it i kind of feel like before you get to yeah leaning into the body positivity or like not positive body but anything before you flip it even it's almost like before you think about how you're gonna react or act in that moment and how you're gonna deal with that experience before you get to it like zoom out and kind of think okay but why does it matter to me that this presentation has to go a certain way and like what's the facts here because i oh my god i do this all the time like i actually like get myself

in trouble with the people around me because I've been, you've never said this to me, I don't think. But people in my life are like, you need to stop because you're being insane. Where it will literally be like 9.45 in the morning and I'm like, I've ruined the day. I've ruined the day and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I won't have. I will have got up, gone for a walk along the beach, a coffee gone to the gym done some journaling like done even whatever to me exactly and I'm like but it's ruined now for some for whatever reason I think just any small thing getting dressed couldn't do it couldn't get dressed properly ruined my day anything like that some silly things like um didn't have the right top to wear, ruined the day. It's 9.45, you absolute lunatic. What is this all or nothing mentality? Like, you have a whole,

God, you've got a long day ahead, honey. You need to calm down. What? And what are these standards of like, you've just had an amazing like three hours of being awake and now this one tiny thing isn't perfect so your whole day is ruined that is a dangerous dumb dumbo way to be living and it's how i live basically every day um yeah that is crazy but i i have this thing of like so for example if i had a presentation

the facts might be okay realistically if i want to be getting um if i want an a by the end of this year then i need to at least get a b in this presentation fine uh but i turn it into i need to get the highest mark that anyone's ever got in any presentation ever otherwise i'm a piece of shit and i failed the presentation it's like but that doesn't make sense like what that's not facts what are the fact what are we actually dealing with it what are the actual give me the facts give me the statistics because i don't trust you do you know what i mean and the facts of the situation is it might be you just have to go show your face say your bit and go home oh my god go have a mcdonald's go chill out go have some

sleep go have a drink somewhere with your mates like it's probably not the inflated big deal that you think it is in your mind completely do you know what i mean it's almost like pin that down then you can do the whole fake it till you make it thing if you're not if you're still not feeling good i hate that feeling of the you think your day is ruined from a small thing i feel like you know what i mean i've never thought of that in well there actually maybe i have thought of that in you because you do that thing where you're like i'm gonna restart my day yeah i do and i love it i love that where you'll be like it's 4 p.m i'm feeling shit i'm gonna restart my day and it's like have a shower get dressed again get in the shower get changed yeah and i love that so much i actually don't do that that much anymore no i haven't done it in ages but

i want to start doing that again just being like look you're not you're not happy with the vibes here the vibes are bad this isn't working yeah but i do think that like just like even yesterday i was feeling so like oh just all day and it's like actually and then and then i went out in the evening i had and i had a really good time but it's like maybe if i had caught that at two rather than at six i would have saved myself four hours of just like sitting in front of the tv being like fuck this and it's also acceptance it's like okay so for example in my case it's like well what if you can't get dressed today what's the problem it's like but i have to be feeling so good in in how i look before i go out it's like you you don't though do you like do you yeah do you

though question mark question mark question mark strange girl do you know what i've been doing because i find getting dressed so fucking hard and i agree i ruin i i will i will ruin my fucking day everything's riding on this moment which is mental so i've started getting my clothes out the night before and like putting like pants socks bra fucking clothes that you're wearing shoes and fucking everything and you're in creative sim the night before literally and then it's like whatever you feel like in that outfit whatever is looking like right now you've decided you committed to that last night and you're wearing that outfit and i think oh my god it's been life-changing for me that's a challenge it just means you don't

fucking end up like throwing clothes around your room in the morning being like not that not that and then realistically i always say this when my friends are going on dates when it's like they try on an outfit and i don't like it don't like it and then they're about to do the rummaging thing and i'm always like stop because are you about to just try on everything in your wardrobe get really sweaty your makeup's melting off your hair's frizzing and then just go back to option number one oh and always they're like yeah realistically i am gonna do that well it's not a problem with the outfit is it no it's how you feel a couple times before and you like them it's not stop blaming the fucking clothes it's not the outfit so it's like before you get sweaty and then end up in outfit number one and then you're just a

worse version of what you were before with more flustered less time it's awful just be like is it about the outfit right now but that's what it always is no every single person tries i also used to have a rule with my therapist because at uni i we all know body dysmorphia is a fucking bitch yeah and i um what she would basically say to me you're allowed one you put on your outfit in the morning you're allowed to change once and then your options are between those two outfits those two you can't then change again oh i think the skirt's just wrong no no your outfits options are one and two well because beyond that it's not a

problem with the outfit is it not at all i definitely have that where i have just certain things where i know it's almost like things that i've bought like a full outfit that i've worn before or just like a couple of like pieces like a dress for example just like a top that i know is a safe options that i know i feel good and that i know i like that as a piece yeah so almost if i put this on or if i put this outfit on and i don't feel good in it i have to know objectively that it actually isn't the outfit because i know that i've worn this outfit and loved it so i have to know it was a bit of a coincidence then isn't it it must be me yeah what is the common denominator here that's bringing the shit it's not this poor little outfit it's me it's not the outfit yeah of course it's not also it's it's no coincidence when

you're in your room you've probably been consuming social media all morning then you then you're like right okay you're you've already got the blueprint of what women should look like just stored in the back of your mind instantly then you're going through your wardrobe none of your clothes are the fucking clothes you've been seeing nothing looks like what a woman should be looking like in this society according to shit worlds i always feel like so i've i've had a shit morning trying to get dressed i've gone through my whole room's a fucking tip now i've wasted my morning i've cried fucking twice i look like shit now but i've got an outfit on i'm ready to start my day i walk out onto the street and i think these are what real people look like these people like i've been

comparing myself to like yeah airbrush isn't real one percent of women that don't even look like that themselves just this mental thing and then you walk out into the street and think no i'm the hottest on this street by a fucking mile like fuck this what have i been worrying about that is it's just it's like you are comparing yourself to a fake thing anyway also probably just comparing yourself to a fake version of yourself in your head as well of like i know we've done that before but entirely anyway that's the real kicker no it's the real kicker i mean it has to be absurd if we don't agree that it's absurd then it's a fucking disaster i'd rather think yet this is all absurd and meaningless than like deal with the reality yeah i'm also really cute i just got a text from my friend saying oh my god i've just seen that you're over 20k followers like well, well done. Cute. Yeah, thanks, guys.

Thanks, everyone. Thanks, everyone, for being here. 20,000. I know. Wowza. I mean, there's a lot more where that comes from. There's a lot more than that on here, isn't there? Which is the scary bit.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm more scared that there are a lot of people listening. Okay, actually, I have a question for you. Okay. So I know I touched on this at the beginning but for example these people who said um people can smell fake confidence from a mile away someone else said it works until someone realizes you're faking it or even worse points it out i know that's scary so i was gonna ask you have you ever looked at someone and thought they're

faking their confidence oh my god yes yes yes yes oh no oh my god yes and do you know what you can sniff it out for a mile but also like good for them well exactly because also it's whatever gets you through the fucking day but i think the one exception to that is when you fake the kind of confidence that puts other people down and that's where what i can identify more yeah no i can identify the fake it till you make it till the fucking cows come home where it's just you walking through looking great feeling great all of that but if it's someone being super smug and arrogant and it's just reeks of insecurity it's not that's a whole different organ it's disgusting and it's actually it's not okay it's not fucking okay no it's it's not okay. What I find easier to identify, because I honestly find that anyone

that ever makes a negative comment about someone else or in a room of people feels the need to fucking push someone down, you know where it's coming from. They feel like fucking shit. And it's always, well, it's often the people that seem like the loudest in the room, the most confident person in the room. And I also fucking live for genuine confidence. My fucking thing love to see that for sure but when

it's not it's often often at someone else's detriment yeah you can tell when someone is like super loud and like confident just because they enjoy the company and the socialization they like making the room laugh and etc etc and you can tell when it's coming from like self-hatred hatred for themselves and to be honest hatred for everyone else in the room as well it's like just leave get us out of here which also that's the opposite of what confidence should come from is if you think real confidence comes from genuine self-love we've all felt it when it's like right okay i feel good feel fucking good in this setting and that setting can be fucking playing animal crossing it can be fucking at the party whatever it is when it's like right okay i feel good feel fucking good in this setting and that setting can be fucking playing animal crossing it can be fucking at the party whatever it is when it's like

i actually feel confident in this now and the last thing you want to do is make someone else feel shit yeah no we've all fucking felt self-hatred and i do think one of the byproducts of that is being like right i'll fucking little kick that person down and i see it all the fucking time see i think my self-hatred comes out in it's the people pleasing thing oh really yeah okay it comes my self-hatred comes out in the like everyone else is perfect and i'm a piece of shit doing a little jig for everyone i'm performing monkey i'll do whatever you say that sort of thing mine comes out in just like i i will have to watch tv and stay in my bedroom for 12 hours which i mean that's quite nice i can't be seen but i think that's why i find the like

i find when people are really rude or like cold or like horrible really hard to deal with because the worst i just want every i'm really the thing in mean girls it's like why don't we all just bake cakes and snuggle and blah blah i actually can't cope with people hating themselves so much that they are rude end up hating everyone else around them yeah it's so it's just like oh can't you see how much of a shame this is but i just think that's one of the things where you just want to say are you like are you okay and sometimes when i'm with someone where i can tell that they're being like they're coming in like hi everyone oh my god like oh my god you look so cute like kind of fucking rude i can see the passive aggression from a mile off

and i'm not liking it what you really want to say is are you okay like what's just happened it's like yeah can we stop for a second can we zoom out did you struggle getting dressed this morning but that's the thing is i want to take a moment to relate to that i just want to connect with you i just want to take a moment and be real with you and be like look i feel like shit too like my greasy hair is pissing me off today like can you tell does it look really bad like i just want to be real with you like on a real level yeah honestly like and i'm annoyed that i can't because you're insulting everyone i was gonna ask you um just off the back of what you said when are the moments that you feel most confident oh confident yeah doesn't have to like tie to anything or mean anything it doesn't have to be like an identity thing it could just literally be like have you ever noticed like god

i feel good right now. And you didn't necessarily expect it or might not even make sense. So many times. It's just literally like, God, the most embarrassing scenarios coming to my mind. I think I'm confident when I'm just like out and about with like friends, when I'm just out and about.

Yeah. All the time. We're all having fun. I think I'm confident on a night out. I think I'm confident, confident on the night out i think i'm confident confident on the dance floor i think i'm confident talking to people just like out and about um i also think i'm confident to like do things on my own nice like i'm confident to go to the cinema on my own

i'm confident to go to fucking the fucking doctors shit like that i'm confident just um out and about in my life good nice i'm happy to hear it when are you confident i really like that question oh thanks well i love to hear when you're confident because i think i also think it's something that like maybe there's a bit of shame around it like maybe i think i think people feel like they're not allowed to feel confident do you you know what I mean? Or it's like, I think it makes, I think it would make a lot of people feel a bit nervous or embarrassed if I said, when do you feel confident?

If I, God, your rainbows are looking amazing. They look incredible. Your hair's all green, I can see. The sun just came out in my room. My hair has gone rainbow. Really cute. Everybody get a rainbow fucking sticker for their window. Go on Etsy, loads of people have asked about the

rainbows yeah people have asked you should link it why don't you tag it on one of your on that post well it's just some random etsy thing and then i saw a thing that was like boycott etsy for the so i think etsy a bit dodgy they're not paying people right yeah but it will be like that seller like surely that that person that you bought it from has got an instagram you can link i don't i think is i don't know that would be good i can look through my emails and try and find it but just honestly type in um like rainbow maker sticker it's not a film it's just a fucking piece of plastic that you put on your fucking window it's incredible my route i live inside a rainbow your hair is literally bright green and purple right now how stunning is that it just all came out i guess the sun came out it's gone back in again now but i googled as

well sorry i'm just hopping no no in front of you or what makes you confident but i was googling what are the like spiritual like the spiritual meaning of rainbows because i was like rainbows are such a big theme of my life right now just in covered in them the whole time um and it was so nice it was just like good luck like all of these things i'm gonna choose to believe that my room is just good luck no oh my god i mean why would you not anyway go on stunning i think you should tag that on that post that'll really make people's lives easier yeah it really would i've got so many people want to know and it's just like i don't know it will make your life easier i don't know why not just their lives will make your life easier but i don't want to send people the wrong direction they're like this is shit you won't you've got

the email surely yeah i need to go through my emails again and find it um yeah i think a lot of people like if you were out and about feeling confident and i said are you feeling confident right now i think first of all it'd be kind of rude it's kind of weird that was really throw me oh look at you you're feeling confident right now are you yeah oh that's really horrid maybe not out and about but you get the vibe of kind of i think people acknowledging especially publicly when they are feeling confident i think can be quite like mortifying for people because i think you're not supposed to but do you know what i mean you're not supposed to say i think i look good right now i think i am talented right now i think i'm super funny today do you know i'm in yeah also saying someone like oh that's like oh you're feeling confident now well that's crazy

sounds like unrightly so it does it almost sounds like you you you're deluded almost yeah totally but more yeah i would never ask it like that i mean i've never asked anyone this question ever are you feeling confident but i more so mean like if someone said when do you feel confident i think people i think a lot of people would struggle to be like shit and like feel like they have to admit like they have to kind of um come clean that they felt confidence before do you know i mean wow i know i would i guess so okay so if i said to you like when do you love yourself like do i mean like i think i'm just so immune to these ridiculous conversations though by now from no you're not i mean off the podcast like in real life like if someone not if if it wasn't me and it was someone else who was not having these sorts of conversations with you and had all of their preconceived notions of confidence and someone came up to me and said when do you love yourself first of all i'd say who

are you what's going on are you doing a survey did wing send you yeah what is this do you listen to goes about telling then i would say yeah when i, when I'm playing Animal Crossing, baby. What do you want from me? Nice. All right. Love it. Do you remember we used to have a sticker on our wall that we made everyone write in? What do you love about yourself?

A sticker? Well, we made a big sheet of like A3 paper and put it on our wall. Yeah. And we made all the guests answer, what do you love about yourself? That was one of the questions, was it? And it was interesting that a lot of people couldn't answer it. lot of people refused to answer it a lot of people it gave us a cold no a little one little boy that i had back on a little date wouldn't he would not do it little boy sephie okay let me do it one guy i was on a date with we asked him to do it i mean you can say it it just is funny little boy he's a little boy he's grown up now we were so young back then yeah all right what time shit what time are we on 49 i think we have

to go because this take is probably not going to send as well okay cool let's go all right just cut you out of nowhere we're ending it there this little boy yeah i think we have to end it there i can't go on from that okay cool um um thank you guys for being here i'm i'm already i'm sorry in advance about the merch like no what are you no i'm sorry i'm sorry this is pure when do you hate yourself the most when merch is coming out no honestly i can't deal with when you see the merch guys like i'm just gonna do a little thing i know we've got to go but honestly wing is so great like she's just she's put her sweat and blood into this and looks fucking great yeah and it goes without saying the tears are in there too

yeah the tears are also in there they go without saying and it looks incredible i have all the confidence in the world of the merch and i just can't wait for everyone to see it i just i also just also i know we're going but I don't want anyone to feel like, I just already feel disappointed for you. I know that some people will be like, I can't afford it. And I don't want to, I feel bad. Like I want to support, but I can't get it. Or like, blah, blah, blah.

I just, I don't know. I just don't feel, but you don't need it. Don't worry about it. Just come, just come back on Monday. Like we'll see you then. Like, please, please, please. Like we're already like just so grateful. We'll see you then. Yeah. Please, please, please. We're already just so grateful. And we owe you everything.

Please. We do not need anything more from you than the kindness of your ears. It's already more than enough. So thank you. Just thank you for being here for this, even if it's just this. Yeah. Even if we never speak again. And thanks.

And have a great night. Night. Have a great night and day. Great life. Okay. yeah even if we never speak again and thanks and have a great night night have a great night and day okay if you don't hear from us assume the worst