Goes Without Saying - food, summer bodies, & loving discipline

Episode Date: July 14, 2024

THE SUMMER BONANZA BEGINS. podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on wellness culture and the Green girlies, gym and eating disorder discourses online, narratives around food and relationships to bodies, pressure, self-loathing, and learning to value who you are. ✷see more ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hello in Tansi. My name is Joel de Moncran. I'm an actor and I'm indigenous and I've created a podcast called Actors and Ancestors. It's a podcast all about indigenous actors here on Turtle Island and our experience in the industry. So if that sounds like something that your ear balls would be happy to listen to, then check out ActorsAndAncestors.com and go to any of your favorite podcast players and we're there. A-G-O-S-E! helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com Goes without saying, our YouTube has dropped finally.

We have been filming non-stop, high drinks ensued, and now the Cepheid Wing Cinematic Universe is live and ready for you to come and enjoy. There'll be videos all through july and hopefully ongoing as well but come and just see what's going on. till the end of time. yeah. oh wait where can they find it? type in sephianwing guys you know how to use youtube. yeah and it's also on our instagram sephianwing. it's also linked below if you need some help. yeah yeah. Take one. The earphones falling out was really like a... that was a real like 3, 2, 1, headphones are falling out and it's now 1 and three quarters. The show must go on. Well how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good, I'm good. Good. Just had a fun conversation.

We did about Nick Miller. I think you may have heard it yesterday. And now we're about to have another one. Yeah, there's more where that came from. Yeah. This also, I feel like this conversation might take a shape off the back of a conversation that we had in a video that went up on our YouTube channel,

which I have to say has gone down such a storm. It really has. I mean this video specifically but also just the channel in general, so thanks so much. Yeah, thank you everyone. But this, it was the sunset and wine video at the beach, which I think just literally is my favourite and a lot of people are saying it's their favourite and I'm like yeah, good taste guys. It's kind of the most visually stunning thing I've ever seen in my entire life, like we're

sitting in front of the sea. I think the pathway really holds up. And the sun is like setting behind us. It is very, very stunning. It's really stunning. And we're drinking some wine. And the combo is great. So if you like anything we've ever said,

just see if you like that video. You might be like, no, not doing anything for me. But generally, I think if you're a little bit interested in us, yeah, you'd like that video. Because I love it. I think it's so, I love the way it looks but I also just thought that was such a good conversation. It really was and almost like I feel like right now that is the better version of this conversation so.

Agreed. Before it's even happened I'm like ugh this is such a good version. That was just such a good combo. Because it was really real. And it's just like a podcast episode. On the beat. Oh it's just really a podcast episode on the beat. oh it's just really good. it's really stunning. great video. so let's do the shits version of that then. yeah. just like less stunning like I'm in my room now. like it's like. yeah it's very

it's incredibly less stunning. it's so significantly. I couldn't be less stunning right now. yeah. any jumping thoughts? no I'm really intrigued about this concept because it's like, the conversation we're having on the beach was kind of about smoking and just about outgrowing things but also doing what you want to do within the realms of also knowing that maybe things that are bad for you can also be good for your soul in a weird way it's kind of a difficult nuanced conversation like that is gonna make some that would raise some eyebrows i think that sentence smoking good for your soul question mark well even more so my eyebrow was raised the other day with an update on that conversation the other day you had had a drink or two oh my god we we were at Caspar Lee's house. We were at Caspar Lee's house Nat. We weren't. We were not. That's actually a crazy thing to say. It's actually really weird of us.

We were at our management's party which our management is owned by Caspar Lee and Joe Sugg you might know them. And Joe Sugg famously. And we were there having like a party. nana came with us so nice and freya was there of course. so nice to see her. queen. and I got a cigarette off someone I won't say who because I don't know if they publicly would want that out there. that's intriguing. but I got a cigarette. not any of the people that we just mentioned. no none of them. god if I got a cigarette from joe sugg. joe sugg cusply. I wouldn't be able to hold that in. I just thought, I don't want anyone out there thinking that was from Naina. Oh god, no god. Do you know how I went, god suddenly we're. Goodness me. No no no.

From someone else and I. From an unnamed. An unnamed person. Third party. A creator I must say. They are a creator yeah. And who was very very very nice and very kind of them to give me a little scrounger or a cigarette.

Really was actually nice. But I was talking about how they're disgusting, I'm off them, blah, blah, blah, which basically I say in the whole video, you can watch it, but I'm literally saying like, I used to smoke a bit when I was younger, kind of socially, and sometimes every now and then when I've had a drink I'll have a cigarette and then I, which I talk about much more eloquently in that video, and I probably hadn't had a cigarette for a couple years and suddenly after listening to Brat I was like I just want to be like Charlie, I'm gonna have a cigarette. Bought a packet of cigarettes. Which is interesting in itself. And I do just want, I literally was like- That's a whole separate conversation.

She's influenced me in a huge way Yeah, and I had a cigarette and I was like this isn't hitting like it used to like this is gross. I hate this And I threw away the whole packet of cigarettes Which is quite a crazy move because they're expensive and I shouldn't have really thrown away I should have like left them on the street or something for someone but I didn't and then it's crazy Actually, you did that. But yeah, yeah, I was packing up my room. I just thought I don't even have the whole cigarette you just had like I think you say in the video like a third Yeah, I probably did have a third. Yeah, and then I was like, this is not nice And then at this party, I'd had a few drinks. Thank you so much Caspar Lee and Joe Sugg for the drinks

Yeah, genuinely. I saw this girl had some cigarettes and I thought could I please have one? I'll have one of them. Which actually Freya actually arranged the three transactions so thank you so much queen and i thought yeah no i do like this actually yeah it hit it was a shocking okay so it's like a drunk thing so do you think that's it when you're drunk i don't know i think it's just there's no rhyme or reason um at all it's it's unbeknownst to us. It is and it's who am I to decide when something tastes nice and when something's horrible but also my big message that smoking is bad for you and don't do it unless you're charlie xx and then do whatever you hell you want. But why I love that conversation so much was because we were talking about and kind of,

we were just talking about it with Nick Miller, Nick Miller, and it's kind of just what I talk about in life every day. I honestly feel like it's the key to life. Weird word, very liberal word, balance. The idea of balancing everything in life is first of all impossible, spoiler, but also actually I think the answer of that to me is if I'm looking for one word that will cut my crux of everything everywhere all at once how do you guys keep up with this podcast? I'm so sorry. That's nuts. Round of applause to you guys. Don't really know how you are hanging on but if I'm looking always for something that is gonna emphasize kind of in the goes without saying way of like it goes without saying like there's always

a nuance, there's always a gray area, there's always something complex that I can't touch on in a sentence or I can't you know deliver my point perfectly. Balance is maybe one of the only concept words that offers something up for yeah it is good and it is bad, balance, it's nuanced, it's both, it's everything everywhere all at once and I think my crux in life often is find the balance. 100% because also it's we were again talking about it much better in that fucking video which is just better in every way probably the best thing we'll ever do and now we're always gonna be trying to live up to it. I don't know why I really loved it.

It's visually stunning and the content's really good. Damn it, we've created a really high standard for ourselves. We did, accidentally as well. Accidentally. But like, so we all know eating chocolate cake is bad for you. You shouldn't do that. Like, you shouldn't really be having chocolate cake all the time. Sorry. That is the exact example. Chocolate cake. It's so true though. Okay so let's change it. No it is so true. Let's cleverly change it to a bag of crisps. Crisps yum. A bag of crisps is bad for you. They're not like, we know it's junk food. It's what

I'm hearing. It's bad for you. You should still be eating that though. I highly hope in your life that you are eating a bag of crisps every now and then, a bit of chocolate cake, McDonald's. I hope to fucking god you are eating that stuff. Like it's the weird, it's sort of wellness culture, diet culture, all of this bullshit will have you thinking that to take care of yourself you need to be stripping everything that's bad for you out of your life. That is not the case. obviously it's about balance. yeah. and that was my answer then we'll go on in that video you say um i don't know maybe you say going i think you say you say some form of exercise and eating a salad every day is bad for you. yeah. or whatever. and i'm like well could be but also could not

be sort of thing. i think that is bad for you. I'm not saying eating a salad is bad for you, I'm not a fucking moron but I will say right now that if your life is based around there is no balance in your life and you have a salad and you have fruit all day and you eat salad and you eat vegetables and all this stuff that's good for you and then you run every day and you do all of this stuff, I'm going to maybe say that maybe you're not the most, maybe you don't have a healthy attitude towards all of this stuff. That to me does not make a person, first of all doesn't make a life I want to live, but it also, I live a healthy life and I want to live a healthy life, but to me that includes eating all of

the stuff that I want to eat and doing the exercise that I want to do and maybe having a cigarette every now and then or watching TV or all of this stuff at the same time as being healthy. I think if you're not doing that... I agree with you. I just don't agree with the sweeping statement of you could be exercising every day and eating a salad every day and that's not good for you because I think you could do that by accident. Did I say that? Yeah, but I don't think you maybe meant it. It was more so just like, and I would say, that's not good for you. And I was like, yeah, it isn't good for you totally,

but also blah, blah, blah, everything everywhere all at once sort of thing. It kind of is and it isn't. Exactly. I do agree with that. Yeah, of course. Like you could exercise every day for a few days and not even notice that you've done it.

Or you could have a salad every day for two years and maybe that might get a bit intense. I'm sure by that point you'd be like, this is my favorite thing. You might be like, Jesus, I do love this salad. I think by that point you'd be like, God, I've really got into a good phase with this, my favorite lunch.

Doesn't it depend on what you're enjoying as well? I think that's the thing of like, cause I think if you're, why I've, yeah. I just think it's important also coming with the other angle of you might be someone who's never thought about, you've never put too much emphasis on looking after yourself in terms of eating crisps

or salad or exercising or not exercising or any of this stuff. And so finding the balance, however that looks like, finding whatever you are going to enjoy and genuinely as you prioritising yourself in the way that works specifically for you as an individual, weird amalgamation of all the things that you are and everything that has come before you. Finding out what you like and you deserve to find out what you like, is the most important thing.

And that could look like a hundred different things. And I think loads of people do exercise every day and do eat a salad every day. It's not me, but I also think they can be healthy in the same way that you can eat whatever. Do you know what I mean? It's just, it's all things. It's balance, it's everything ever all at once,

duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. totally. it goes without saying i would hope but i think that's the thing is it doesn't go without saying. no it doesn't because also i think we need to take into account the culture that we live in is not a culture there's a huge bias towards two versions of unhealthiness but one is um sort of branded as the vision of health and one is branded as One is sort of branded as the vision of health and one is branded as sort of demonic even. Like to be... Wait, which, wait, wait, what? So like, for example, the vision of health is,

I think we can all be smart here and say that yes, doing exercise every day and eating a salad, I don't obviously think is the pinnacle of health. Like that is obviously hugely- It goes without saying. I'm not saying that is disordered but like if we're gonna take that to extremes of like someone that only eats salad and all of that stuff and never would-

Exactly. I think that's the thing is if they only- If your life only revolves around things that are stereotypically considered quote unquote wellness then there surely can only be in that the absence of real wellness. Literally, I think that's the crux. I think that's it. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you may be a salad every now and then, also you're also just living your life going to the cinema and walking your dog. Also, let's not be ridiculous, it's like, yeah, you do need to be a healthy person in this life. Well, you deserve to be a healthy person in this life. I think that's the bigger call. Health, I think, the image of health in our society

excludes so much fun and like so much of the joy of being alive and like I do think the horrific spoiler that I'm gonna have to give you is one day you will die, one day you will die. Oh I don't want you guys to die. That's the horrendous spoiler. I'm touching wood! Let's not die guys, let's stay together forever. And personally my idea of living like a long healthy life cannot exist just around like a really binary version of wellness that excludes things that bring fun. It can't and it won't. I actually refuse. I legitimately refuse. I couldn't even entertain the thought frankly, which is a privilege in itself. I cannot even entertain the thought and I will not and I will not ever and I would actually say if

there's one thing I believe pretty strongly and I also have really grown up with a weird idea, my mum would always say, you never know what is going to happen in the future. Ever. You never know. And she's so right. So never say never. If she's right about anything she's speaking about. She is right on that one thing.

She is right about that. You never know the weird things you're going to do. You actually don't. Or you might say, I would never do that. And then you do it. Cut to it. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hello and tanse. My name is Joel de Moncran. I'm an actor and I'm indigenous and I've created a podcast called Actors and Ancestors ancestors It's a podcast all about indigenous actors here on Turtle Island and our experience in the industry

So if that sounds like something that your ear balls would be happy to listen to then check out actors and ancestors Calm and go to any of your favorite podcast players, and we're there Eglise A cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. But I do think I would never, I will say here on out, I will never ever, I will never push myself into one weird corner of a narrative around the way my life should be. Ever. No. No no no no no no no. And I am certainly not going to have it dictated by trends that go on and fucking horrible horrible like new beauty

standards that are emerging every two seconds it's like no I'm not gonna be told by Gwenyth Paltrow to shove a crystal up my vagina and I would do it. Yeah That's the one thing I would do Yeah, I just think it's important to I feel feel like the conversation, I don't see any, look, I always come in with a skeptic's eye on this. I always come in with a weird, I'm always kind of frowning. I'm always coming in with my magnifying glass. When I see someone talk about balance and wellness,

I always kind of think like, really? really, because I hope so, but really, because I think it is incredibly rare for people to feel really secure in finding the balance between, like, let's call it green wellness and eating crisps, for example, those two things. To me, the more of both, the better. But my wellness is more about maybe things that wouldn't be prescribed on either end,

on the crisp angle or the green wellness angle. It would be more things like, make sure you and Sefi do something fun once a week. That's something I need to think about in my life to keep me feeling good. That's like a real priority and someone on Instagram isn't going to tell me to do that. It's not because it's all up to the individual to assess their own life. Exactly and your own needs of like what actually makes you feel good. It's like I yeah in the way that yeah I don't know it's difficult it's difficult. You're so right because that

is why there's so many issues with like the culture just being like well you've got all these problems have you tried going for a run and eating a salad it's like um actually i feel like my problem is yeah i haven't seen my friends in ages like there are so many it's so prescriptive and it's so binary and it's just to be honest a load of dog shit like it's actually nonsense. to be honest, a load of dog shit. Like it's actually nonsense. What also frustrates me with it then is that the idea of like looking after yourself then becomes harder because so much of us

has to fight against the bias of the narrative that we're being told. So if we're constantly being told the like kind of green wellness, whatever, if that's what we're hearing, that's shouted at us all day, every day. My instinct has always been my instinct, my whole life, and not necessarily to fight against that narrative,

but just who I am at my core and whatever, has always been, I'm fighting for the crisps. I am on the crisp angle. I'm fighting for fun before I fight for most things, to be honest, and enjoyment. Well, I'm fighting for crisps, so I'm not fighting for fun and enjoyment I was fighting for like laziness and not looking after myself which then means that because there's so much of

a narrative coming about like go outside and go for a run and eat a salad then you get the opposing view which is like rest rest rest and just take the day off and watch friends all day and eat some crisps and blah blah blah. And so for me, finding like real helpful, tangible, soft, loving, compassionate discipline to look after myself because I value myself is really difficult because there seems to be no place for that in all of these narratives being held my way. But isn't that weird? To rest or be lazy or enjoy food that maybe isn't the most nutritionally beneficial, that that is so branded with not taking care of yourself? It's like, no, that sometimes is the most caring thing.

It sometimes is. It is, yeah. It really it really really is for a lot of people and maybe for more people that's what should be encouraged for sure but then for also for a weird little subgroup that I'm in if you don't see yourself as something worth looking after and you like this is obviously a specific situation but it's like yeah if you're not showering for weeks on end, or you're not eating a proper meal, or like you're just eating the same amount of bagels in a day.

Literally, that isn't what you need. And it's like, yeah, that does fit into a narrative of like, it fits into a narrative and also there's truth in it. And it's balanced and it's nuanced and it's all of these things. And I think I really would love to just have more conversation around like, you can be disciplined in things. You can be disciplined of like, I am going to make sure I drink two glasses

of water a day. That kind of fits into the Green Wellness Girlies vibe, but I'm coming with a softness that hopefully alleviates the pressure around it. That it's like, okay, yeah that could fit into, yeah, that could fit into, yeah, it could fit into a weird binary prescriptive thing of like, go for a run. But also, if you do feel better after you run, just try and run a little bit more. And I think the intention behind it,

if it's coming from like love and genuine care for yourself versus like hatred, it should be encouraged more to come in with this loving angle of like, I know what makes me feel good and I'm gonna try and do it more. And it might not be today, but like tomorrow I'm gonna make an effort

or like this evening I'm still gonna do this or da da da da da. And it's crisps and it's cake and it's also salad and all of these things. It really is all of these things, just always coming with a loving angle. Because I think that for me is like, I'm always apprehensive when I hear people talking

about balance and wellness and things like that, because I just always think it's more often than not. And this could be really unfair of me to assume, but I do often think it is coming from a place of maybe like an over awareness of somebody's health or their body, for example, which is not appealing to me, but it's just not hitting, it's not connecting. And I think that absence of conversation around-

Well, you don't wanna be overly aware of your body. That's a terrible, terrible place to be. And I think sometimes it's really difficult because the desire is for people also who have like lived through a really difficult experience or had a difficult relationship their body had a difficult relationship with food then they start maybe finding a healthier route out of that start looking after themselves a bit better whatever like hopefully like for example eating more for example if that's what they need blah blah blah if they're still operating

in that space of talking about food all the time or talking about their body all the time or talking eating more, for example, if that's what they need, blah, blah, blah. If they're still operating in that space of talking about food all the time or talking about their body all the time or talking about wellness all the time, I can imagine that makes it still really hard for that person to properly recover. And I've seen, obviously this is, I'm just passing through the grapevine, that I've seen people in kind of wellness culture, I've seen people all over Instagram talk about that I've seen people in kind of wellness culture, I've seen people all over Instagram talk about gym culture, eating disorder culture, and the ways that they are like trying to heal from it,

but now they cannot heal in the space. Totally. That they have created, because talking about it all day is consuming and it's annoying. Also, it's a bit of like, I've seen a few people talking about like, replacing one obsession with another.

Exactly. And it goes from trying to control. It's just why it's like the whole wellness culture is sitting on the shoulders of the eating disorder culture. Like you cannot tell me. You just need to rebrand it. It's like the way that we look at it is if like one of these things is really healthy to go to the gym all the time, it's like let's not forget what our society, what we live in. People will take that too far. And we already live in a culture where that is asceticised so much. Like we don't live in a culture where we're allowed to do, I don't know, it's just ridiculous. But like you move

from obsessing over controlling the food that you eat to then how heavy a weight you can lift or how fast, far you can run or how fast you do your 5k or whatever like it's just moving one thing to the next and i do think that exercise we know we are not morons is the most important it's so important all of this stuff but like let's not be um arrogant about the situation that we're in in our society and think that we're immune to these addictions. It also kind of reminds me of the conversation in Britain around racism. Just when you were saying that it really is the kind of thing of like, it doesn't mean it's not happening anymore, it just means it's maybe more insidious or maybe you have to be a little bit more

cunning. And more, you have to keep your eyes open or you have to identify it when it's happening between the lines rather than something explicitly, for example, screaming at you that it's an eating disorder versus now it just has been repackaged in a different way. That doesn't mean it's not an eating disorder. It doesn't mean it's not racism, for example. These things haven't necessarily gone away. We just kind of change their face and manipulate. We just rebrand it.

Exactly. Yeah exactly yeah never left it never ever left i just really want everyone to feel like they can you've got all the time in the world to just figure out what's best for you and that's the only thing that matters it's just you feeling good in yourself taking your time and if you are um struggling with these things it's just like my heart really goes out to you like these things are not easy emotions like those talking about like eating disorders and things like that those are the hardest things ever like that is absolutely horrific so just like genuinely sending so much love and support like that is horrible and you can really can get through it. you really can you really can you really really can. You really can. You really, really can. And just the reminder always,

yeah, that you can get through it and you deserve to as well. I think the crux is just like, yeah, when you're looking at the wellness space, that's the word, it really is about just being a sort of smart individual about it and not looking at, yeah, what you're being told smart individual about it and not looking at what you're being told. It is actually a load of bollocks. Really do think about what you do need as an individual while separating yourself from all the contrasting messages you're getting, which is just the most confusing thing in the world. I think it takes time to be able to find that balance as well. Like and just try and treat yourself with

lots of love and kindness of everyday. Yeah be like, okay I've been trying that running thing for example, I'm not really into it, might come back to it, whatever. Have some fluidity, have some love, have some lightness around it. It's so ridiculous to have to be like, like I was really into running a few months ago. I didn't run once when I was in Brighton for the whole month. Like, and there was no bit of me that's like, and then I was a runner and now I am not a runner. Like we're obsessed with... She's hung up her running shoes. Yeah, exactly.

It's ridiculous. Like, we're just so obsessed with like the branding of it all. And like, I'm a runner, I'm a this, I'm a vegan, whatever. It's just like, oh, just fucking like... But I think it becomes hard because people are like, it's hard then because there's so much emphasis placed on it I think it's hard then people not be like that run didn't feel good for me. Maybe I should maybe I shouldn't do it again Oh, yeah, and it's like it is really difficult. I think to figure out what your line is and also Your line or your routine might change it will constantly be changed

It will change lots of love lots of you know, you can do it. You're a fluid human being, like you're allowed to be. You're the best one in fact. It is so fun. Yeah. Let's not forget that. Yeah. Alright. Okay. Summer. Summer. Summer. Sorry. Summer. Summer. you