Goes Without Saying - ghosting & confrontation: if you don't hear from us...

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

https://podfollow.com/go-love-yourselfif you don't hear from us...join the conversation every monday & thursday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukspeak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com If you're looking for a new podcast recommendation, we have just the thing. Go Love Yourself is an award-winning podcast hosted by best friends Laura and Lauren, and they are the pros at handling complex and sophisticated topics but bringing loads of lightness and familiarity warmth it's hilarious and moving at the same time it's everything that

i want when i'm on the bus walking down the street i'm in my music video i'm laughing i'm crying they cover themes from self-love body image i just listened to one about being child free which was very interesting recent episodes include barbie mania and body image i just listened to one about being child free which was very interesting recent episodes include barbie mania and body image and single life and how to love it so i'm hooked instantly immediately yes immediately yes if you're looking for more conversations on body confidence and self-love and how to get there go love yourself the podcast for you we always need more conversation on confidence self-acceptance they talk about how diet culture took over their lives but now they're unlearning everything

they've been taught about body image acceptance and self-confidence i'm ready to learn from the best to be honest go love yourself girls listen every tuesday with laura and lauren enjoy goes without saying you don't seem to go without saying with seffy and wing i'm wing and i'm seffy and this is such actually like a really i'm i'm gonna say i'm gonna put it out there insightful ground shifting some may say actually quite a nice chilled as well conversation on ghosting betrayal the breakdown of relationships communication conflict swiping things under the rug if you have ever been broken up with if you have been the dumpy or the dumper this is one for you enjoy this feels foreign so this is the first one back after podtober after whatever that was no god the drunk one drunk

part two i'm really coming back with my tail between my i feel the need to genuinely apologize apologize i didn't realize how bad it was like i think it's people have been so i haven't actually seen one bad comment but when everyone's actually been liking it yeah i can't believe it bad taste i listened back to drunk part two 2, Drink With Us Part 2. It does say Drink With Us, so you are warned, yeah. I genuinely was like, this is the worst thing we've ever done. I was so close to messaging you and being like, I'm having a bit of a crisis editing this one.

Like, there was actually quite a bit cut out, believe it or not. God, I don't even know. Believe it or not. We did have a good time, though. It was though unlistenable but i remembered it being great yeah i just i know i had such a good time but then the funny thing is that when i was looking back on like people's responses that are on the spotify also please leave your comments are like underneath the thing on the spotify i love that like we said what's your favorite part of the episode and i love reading them but everyone was saying someone said like seffy's drunk misogynist and i don't know what that you don't want to hear that you've been

told you've been rapping that's you don't know someone said we did a song as well i did i remember that i wish you would come back we i never i don't remember that's because you weren't actually there so i was singing while you went for a wee then you come back and you go hey and i'm like hey wait i went for the for a wee in the middle of the episode yeah we both did i honestly i don't remember a thing i'm shocked at how little i remember me too i was i was so shocked the idea that they're on the internet is really scary and i can't if we would have had multiple episodes in the bank i think i might have hesitated putting that up yeah but i just thought you know what i would say excuse me in a lot of ways the background

that's one for like you've scraped the barrel of our episodes and now it's like you're putting your makeup on you're getting ready you don't need to pull full attention but you want some little like voices there was a funny moment when i said like almost is this a study on like young women drinking alcohol on the effect of alcohol on young women and you said yeah they'll be studying this for years and it was extra funny listening back because i remember agreeing with you when you said it i was like you know what you're right yeah no this is actually really important important important listening back i was like god you really meant that and we shouldn't we shouldn't have but anyway i was shocked like i was actually like jaw on the floor shocked of how unbearable it was to listen to i was like i'm so sorry if anything it's a lesson in you know

own the space dominate the space i also think it's just a lesson in like when you're drunk you truly talk shit because i come home from like a night out sometimes like god i'm clever oh my god i blew their minds and oh my god listening back to it the next day that was what scared me so i was like i genuinely don't remember this conversation it's concerning actually anyway concerning so thank you so much for i mean first of all podtober what i hit that was every moment of it yeah and the drunk can't wait to do that again so much for getting through them if you did manage to but also totally understand if you didn't because i couldn't yeah and today what are we today we're continuing a spooky vibe we are yeah this is super spooky we didn't think of

this during podtober and then we thought let's actually just save ghosting for its own episode because it's like such a good topic it is it is nice simple you know does what it says on the tip i'm clicking on ghosting for sure i'd click yeah i mean if it was us saying it i don't know if i'd click on something like depends am i in on the person who's talking about it yeah that's all that matters to me because also i feel like you in or you out guys yeah no judgment if you're oh my god i won't hold it against you not for a second but i also don't really know what i think about ghosting i think i've it's so context dependent yes yes i guess most things are they are but

someone just wrote in like one of the first responses we got on our instagram at sephie and wing if you don't already follow us um-huh um was someone said that they were ghosted after a three-year relationship and that is so out of order that is bang out of order bang out of line and i mean but then the context comes in and i'm like unless something you know do you know what i mean yeah no no of course but that's what i'm saying i'm just giving the caveat of i'm leaving a little bit of room yeah for something fucked up to have been happening there but generally speaking to be in a pleasant i guess relationship and i would assume the relationship was at worst present considering one half of it was one of you guys who i trust implicitly um it is insanely fucked up to end a long-term relationship with someone with something so inconsiderate almost but is that how you would get out of the relationship

you just stop replying because it's almost like you need to have a conversation being like by the way if people ask you need to tell them you're single sort of like by the way their like relationship partner what's the word boyfriend yeah they've ghosted their boyfriends and that and that's how they break up sort of thing but they haven't actually had that like conversation they've just that's the thing yeah because it's like you're not ghosting your ex at that point you're ghosting actually your boyfriend or your girlfriend whatever you're like hinting at basically i just find it such a lazy way of ending something where you owe someone like an explanation because it just it's so selfish to like assume that you don't owe them that whereas i think there are so many

cases where you literally don't owe this person a thing yeah but i think a relationship is different do you think it's laziness that would cause someone, like, what is that? It's fear, I think, of, like, not wanting to have, basically have to confront any horrible emotion that you're hurting someone. And also kind of the idea that, like, if you're X amount of time into a relationship and you're seeing that the way of ending it

is to ghost them, that to me is like an alarm bell ringing of, like, there was a conversation that you needed to have like six months ago maybe yeah like you've long you're long past the post for some reason like i don't know how you've gone on for this long without addressing how you're feeling i actually do have a big fear in life about like i i have a thing where i it's like one of my things that i really don't want to do kind of like child divorce yeah yeah in the in the in the child divorce department yeah yeah sure which is most

of my life i feel like i have a fear of like not being able to confront something that isn't working so i think in turn i become extra um critical of yeah things that i have like i really i spend a lot of time like reflecting on my relationships and like making sure i'm extra communicative because i have this like deep fear that someone's gonna leave something unsaid and we'll resent each other for like 20 years have a child and break up do you know what i mean i think that's why we're sweeping stuff under the rug i actually can't that's the spookiest thing i've ever hell hell hell hell hell you get to hell and it's just a big old rug rug so much stuff under it that's what hell looks like a swept up rug a swept up

rug and i don't want to be there honestly i have some friendships as well where was one friend in particular who's a real sweeper she loves to sweep things under the rug and just like not deal with things and she she like openly says because it's kind of like a bit of a joke now but she always says like you're such a difficult person for me to be friends with because you're someone that wants to like dig into like every little mine and like wait did that annoy you when i did that or like that kind of thing that i feel like we didn't know more more of it delicious delightful that's the stuff that brings people together that's otherwise it's like what am i walking on eggshells and i do wonder like if you see for example let's throw the parents out there okay sorry guys throw them in the room let's throw them under the bus come on guys as i do in every episode but i think if you watch your parents um sweep things under the rug and they stay together and they have a happy relationship

quote unquote until you die you might have one view on what it might mean to be a rug sweeper cut to like for example in my perspective i watched my parents sweep under the rug and it doesn't go so well no it was going terribly terribly terribly well and now the worst thing i could imagine doing in most relationships like not just romantic and not just like my really close friendships but kind of i just i hate the idea of there being things unsaid or like little gripes that someone hasn't like let me know up just or like bad because that's when it gets they'll reach they'll basically people don't not speak about things that are bothering them they'll just speak about

it to someone else which is the worst say it again because that was so good say it say it nobody give it to us twice can i do it again let's see you can you can if i can't just rewind do 15 rewind yeah nobody doesn't speak about the things. No. Don't bother them. Go on. Don't bother them. They'll just speak about it to somebody else.

Wow. You never said that to me. That's a really good one. Have you thought that before? Because, no, it's a brand new thought. This is fresh off the car. And it's disappearing quickly. I can't even remember it five seconds later.

No, I love it. That's good. But it's true. Because I see these people that are rug sweepers. And it doesn seconds later that's good but it's true because i see these people that are rug sweepers and it doesn't mean that they um let it go they hold on and they hold on and they bitch and they bitch and it destroys them it just what destroys that relationship for sure yeah weird hey but it's out of fear it's like i guess it's out of the same thing that causes people to go someone i think that and also I'm using ghost in terms of like, when you owe someone that thing, or you owe them an

explanation because I don't think that ghosting is wholly bad. I really, really don't. I think it's an amazing tool for women, especially to get away from scary people. Yeah. But yeah, I think it's born out of the same thing, just like the avoidance of having to face up to horrible things. I think avoidance is actually everything. I love that. I love that what you just said. I really want to give that as my moment. Just because they're not talking to you about it, if they're bothered, they're talking to someone.

Definitely. And it's not their therapist. Just because it's not coming your way. Yeah, it's not going to be in a healthy way at all. But I think it's a real skill to learn i definitely didn't used to be someone that um gets it all out there would know how yeah i used to be a bottler like i used to um take it all in and just like take just think i'll take that to my grave now that's just a new horrible thing yep there it goes deep in my soul no big

deal but i think i had like a bit of a yeah I wasn't always like that like I didn't always have that and I think I was raised in a way that's like not just sweep it under the rug but also when someone does raise something deny it and fight back like not necessarily listen deal with the issue build on the issue work forward like on that relation like sort of build on it together and like move forward with your relationship I think I was just like kind of I had learned from somewhere that like when someone that usually you sweep and then there's an argument and then you deny and you fight back and then I think I got to a point I think when I moved out of home that it was like i made the decision quite

a conscious decision really to be like i don't want to continue those behaviors i think i do want to be someone that i think i probably saw other people do it and realize that was just like a nicer way of being that like you can be wrong and you can like have someone raise a horrible um sort of emotion that they had and like deal with that with empathy see which ways you were wrong and then also when you've been hurt also raise it back and have the trust that they will look at themselves as well because actually it's kind of a dichotomy in itself the idea that if you deny deny deny you'll minimize the situation and it'll be nice and smooth for everybody where actually i don't think it does

minimize the situation i think it actually amplifies it and if you go into some sort of confrontation or discussion with somebody and purely just deny deny deny on the defense with the intention to minimize you actually just end up um kind of perpetuating the shittiness you just carry it on like sometimes sometimes I actually think, well, most of the time, to be honest, what people want is a route out of the confrontation or the disagreement or the whatever, the conflict. And they think the route out is to avoid, avoid, avoid,

deny, deny, deny till you die, shut the doors and get on the defence, whatever, like just brush it away. But that actually pushes you further away from the way out yeah or like people also think that the only way out of the disagreement is one to avoid or two for everyone to kind of agree with them but it's like actually that isn't the route yeah usually yeah i think i just think that when you're raising these issues for example in a breakup if you're gonna go down the route of like not ghosting them and actually having that

conversation you probably are gonna have to confront some horrible things that you've done and it's not going to be that you behaved as a perfect person during that situation it's going to be probably quite horrible because people when they're being broken up with say hurtful things they get upset and you have to watch the person that you love cry like all of the stuff it's like yeah i can see why people would want to avoid it because actually what they're trying to avoid is being shown the ways in which they have fucked totally totally and we were actually having a conversation behind the scenes earlier today about how there's sometimes when you've got so much like shame and um kind of embarrassment and fear wrapped up in who you are just

acknowledging that you could have in some way fucked up is like not even an option like it's actually so not on the radar of possibilities of what you could do next yeah um and i do think it's something that you have to or i think a lot of people like us included it's not just oh you wake up as a perfect person and you can do all these things and you can admit when you're wrong and all of this stuff is like you know you have to like actually try and like resist the part of you that is scared of admitting that you fucked up yeah and also like not beat yourself up for fucking up but realizing that's like a very human very normal very like at the point of inevitable part of life and kind of forgiving yourself for that and knowing that you're going to keep fucking up throughout your life kind of speeds up the process as well it's one of those life hacks where it's

like the sooner you can realize i'm rolling my eyes like jesus we don't have all day like the sooner we can realize yeah that like kind of um being so deluded and determined that we haven't fucked up the sooner we get over that the easier it is to deal with when you do fuck up which is as you say inevitable acas powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals.

Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find

a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com ACAST.com. Yeah.

But then, cause also, I know a guy. I know a guy. No, you go. Well, basically it's just the fact that shame,

the shame around not wanting to communicate, being told bad things and all this stuff just ends up hurting more people. Cause when I've known people to ghost people that they've been in like long-term relationships with or not even ghost but like not tell the truth about why they're breaking up with them and which to be honest is a form of kind of ghosting it's just a form of like dishonesty and basically avoidance yeah when i've known people to do that it's just out of a shame of themselves how they've treated someone and not really liking that aspect of them and not really wanting to have that conversation which they almost think that they're sparing someone's feelings but they're actually sparing themselves yeah totally and it is so much more painful for someone to be told a lie because realistically they know they're

being told a lie no one is a moron if anything that there's anything that we think and think and think about is our relationships like nobody is just going to take the answer of like oh i just kind of nothing happened with him or whatever which also is valid of course but people can smell bullshit from a mile away and if you're ghosting someone god they're gonna think and think and fucking think about it i do think and think and think and fucking think about it that if you are entering in some sort of spoken agreement like for example you and i it's not a romantic relationship but it's very much i'm that's a signed i mean yeah this is technically a sign yeah it is actually signed still delivered

but is we're in a relationship where if i felt for whatever reason god forbid i had to exit the relationship i'm actually going to touch some wood on that everybody collectively put the evil eyes away if i fell if if either of us fell and i think this kind of goes without saying that across romantic relationships as well or any relationship where you would need to announce your exit surely surely we need to close this thing up like otherwise what do you i just feel like if you're in for example a long-term romantic relationship with somebody i don't know if ghosting is necessarily an option and i just think almost i just almost want to separate in my mind the idea of like being with someone for three years and ghosting your way out of it so fucked up and actually i would say like an abusive weird thing to do versus breaking up

with someone and then having to like block them and move on with your life and like then kind of resisting communication with them and have the bad conversation yeah like you've had you've had the breakup people don't you've had the conversation you've had the closure and then i don't know if that would be considered ghosting and it's like we just don't speak anymore like almost like yeah we're in an agreement where we're not contacting each other sort of thing but i just think those no i don't think that's ghosting i think those two things are really really different i think to exit a long-term relationship by just dipping out just like not even saying bye it's so but that's what it is that is what ghosting is so so so so yeah but it's one thing to ghost like oh we've had a few

messages back and forth whatever i maybe met them once or twice that is recommended i mean to be in a long-term relationship with someone and they ghost you to get out of it if that's for example what that person is trying to communicate at of it if that's for example what that person is trying to communicate at the beginning if that's what they're saying has happened to them i just always want to take a moment to be like that is so fucked up and i actually think you've dodged a bullet yeah because if you're with someone why for three years who at the end of the day is gonna just not even say bye they're just gonna slip out the back door oh my god disrespect like no matter what went on

in that relationship obviously context you know give a little nod to the caveat of context over there a little nod yeah the lady hello yeah everybody to the context today but that aside there is nothing you could have done to deserve someone treating you that badly and it actually speaks volumes of them to have got out of your relationship in that way there's sorry did i just cut you off not at all continue that was done i thought i was at the end no no continuing um no continuing i have don't make me say anymore i was done continue oh stage fright i'm so sorry um i think how people justify it in their minds is yeah i think people the way that they justify it is by pretending something was more casual than it was so that they can kind of move on quickly disregard your feelings not feel that they owe

you a reason or whatever basically whatever they're going to go and do i think they pretend that it was casual agreed and i think that is kind of the difference between like if you've entered a relationship with someone where it's like agreed that you are in a relationship and there's some sort of yeah something spoken or unspoken intention yeah there's like a sense he'll delivered going on here there's like there's something happening you know you're tethered to me yeah and if you want to break that tie we need to talk about it like please be my guest go free be on be on your merry way but like you could do me the kindness of letting me know that you're gonna leave it's just bizarre but the thing is i see this often like so there must be i do not i am not seeing this

i'm not seeing what do you know where i'm seeing it a lot go on maiden chelsea is where i see this often sephie sephie sephie sephie i thought you meant i hate to bring them in yeah okay no no i oh i've seen it i've seen it a couple times irl but somewhere where i see it often is maiden chelsea that i see people kind of live in the blurred lines of relationships. It's like, we're seeing each other, blah, blah, blah. But they're essentially in a relationship. There is definitely a loyalty.

They've been seeing each other for like a number of months. They use the lack of label to justify their bad behaviour or involvement with other people. And then as soon as they just date someone else or sleep with someone else it's like oh we were never that deep anyway and it's like that's fucked up but we all literally watched you it was documented harvey yeah hang on harvey it was documented um and we saw it like and that's how they get away with essentially then ghosting that person is because it's like well they didn't in their mind they never owed anyone because they didn't have that shaking label there i'm shaking they use the blood the blurred lines

of it to kind of get away with i just hope everyone it's really hard as well like i think that i have two things to say here and neither of them are that important but i'm going to take the moment on one side i would like to really just take the moment to affirm you know don't feel too bad on yourself for like not being able to identify what was happening like the disrespect that was coming your way when you were in it and blah blah blah like i feel like it's very actually hard to keep your perspective and keep your head on your shoulders when you're in a relationship and it's up and down and whatever and blah blah just think give yourself a break like if someone's fucked you over that wasn't your fault for being fucked over like you shouldn't

have known better necessarily it's it's that's on them for doing that to you that said at the same time my other point would be i hope everyone here if you're getting fucked over i want you to sort yourselves out guys get away from it and like i hope everyone is taking the moment to step back and be like this actually isn't no no no like i'm not having this now actually like i hope everyone listening feels strong enough in their own way to get themselves out of situations that aren't good for them and into new situations that they actually deserve and to find like just like a nice happy space in this world for you to like be okay and people be nice to you like i'm just i'm annoyed this is why i think breakups are quite powerful and in a way i'd kind of recommend or like i i see breakups are so fascinating to be able to kind

of see how someone is going to treat you when they fall out of love with you and i almost i'm kind of hesitant to say this because i don't know if i do recommend this but i think it would be kind of amazing if you do want to have like a long-term life relationship with someone to kind of break up once in that so you can see how they're going to treat you where if that does happen obviously it's a horrible thing and i don't wish i'm to break up with anyone i'm thumbs down but yeah it's horrible i love the sentiment but yeah i agree with you that like it's not a recommendation for a personal thing yeah yeah it's kind of a personal way it's kind of um horrible fake your own death and see how people

react is that level i kind of think it's like more than anything i would be very intrigued to know we all know guys are so nice to us when they want us when they love us how do you guys treat the people they don't fancy how do guys treat the girls that they're breaking up with how do guys treat just the girls in the world they're not trying to fuck yes i would be very very intrigued if any if i was going into a long life uh-huh partnership yeah with someone i would be intrigued to know how how they've managed breakups in the past and how are you going to treat me when you're not invested in having sex with me anymore dot dot dot yeah how do you treat me when you've not got anything to gain from me anymore yeah or like the second this isn't working for you how do you manage totally and how much respect i don't want you guys to break up with

your boyfriends in any way but how much respect but i also think maybe it'll be good as well and kind of like to tie the parents back in that everybody loves but the idea that like i think i think for people who have for example a mom and a dad i think it's interesting to see it's so formative watching how your parents treat one another and in that i think as young women really what can be really impactful is seeing how your dad respects your mom or how you know i mean i just think that relationship i know i go on about it but it's so it's your blueprint it's totally the blueprint yeah yeah i was talking about this recently with a group of middle-aged women okay um just didn't you know i'd get in some conversations yeah and

i was talking to them about the role of fathers yeah yeah yeah as you would be of course when are we not they the role of fathers they were mildly intrigued i was role of fathers thoughts yeah and just like kind of the impacts of domestic abuse i was trying to bring this bear in mind this is about like this is like 9 30 in the morning so these poor women no i love it they've been dying to speak about it to be honest they've been waiting for years for a young woman like you to come along yeah i bet it's like they loved it they god they needed it they've been brushing under the rug of course the rug is huge in their house go on and i was just sort of i what i was realising is like, I don't think there's anyone that doesn't have a slightly complex or like weird relationship with the way that they saw their parents interact.

Like, I don't really know anyone that hasn't been scarred, whether they know it or not, by that dynamic. Like seeing how your dad treats your mum as a man tells you so much and as a woman tells you how to expect to be treated it's such like that relationship oh it's just so well this is why you've actually brought me to a place where not i didn't want to go but i actually cut to before we turned on the microphones we were saying what are we speaking about blah blah blah and i said there is something that's been on my mind recently and i have kind of touched on it now but like i was kind of like oh it's a bit heavy like i kind of can't be bothered but it worked i'm just gonna put it in this episode then i guess and just leave it here but

i've been thinking a lot recently about and i did kind of touch on it a second ago at the beginning of this episode but just watching the way that my parents were together the relationship that they had i now have not so much like a conscious belief but i have a core belief in my being that um kind of like love is doomed long-term relationships are about misery everything must end there is no such thing as like happiness and love in a relationship which are crazy things and in my in my conscious mind i don't necessarily agree but i know that there's no that's in my being that i actually just think at the end of the day look you're being pathetic it's not gonna work get a grip these things don't work like people who are in long-term relationships it's all a lie it can't be real blah blah blah then and what i'm thinking a lot about recently

is that i'm experiencing and very much living a um a love a romantic relationship that is directly opposing my belief like i am skeptical of the love that i have and yet i'm proving myself wrong every day that i'm in it for a long time so i'm finding myself in this weird um blurred line of like knowing that i am actively opposing in my life the belief that i learned as a child then kind of undercutting it and being like well you know yeah so you're happy well then he must not be he must be resenting you and not telling you and i'm like well that's not true or like i i'm textbook fit totally i'm so defiant that you know what it's all well and good now but you don't come crying to me in 20 years like when you've had a kid and everything's miserable and you knew it was coming blah blah blah but i i'm

just it's like it's such a bittersweet thing of feeling really like happy and content and like proud of this like really amazing thing that i have and really like just knowing that it's really special and and like really pleased that i get to have that despite what i saw as a child but always like just having that awareness of like i just think it's kind of hitting me as i get older how deep this um belief and like fear must be that love is doomed and things are like i have it too in in every way because i'm such a romantic sentimental person that i almost think i don't believe that but i do believe it in my being like no one in their right mind would believe that like we are very much we've been like fed through society this idea of like love

is the only thing that's real in life and boy have we taken that on board in like the biggest way like there is really nothing else in this world than not saying anything else but also yeah no it's so true but also at the same time i think if you have come from any of a family which had kind of a traumatic or like the knock-on effects were traumatic like breakup or divorce you learn at such an early age that love isn't safe love is doomed love hurts your children like all that understandably is that dichotomy between like the thing that you trust and the thing that it's like your feelings that you're basically your head or your heart your heart is telling you this stuff is real but also like that exact space of like romantic love is where that wound is because that's where you saw things go so wrong but then they also kind of

start to flip where it's like in my head i know that um that that horrible core belief can't be true i can i can reason with myself that that isn't the experience I'm having and that isn't the experience that lots of people have and it makes sense for a young kid like me who saw those those that situation of course that's something that I would develop into like a belief that was what I learned in like such a formative baby infant time yeah but it's kind of the head and it's like the head and the heart they're they're here there and everywhere but i just think i'm becoming more aware as i get older that the kind of fear and anxiety that i have around like oh he's gonna hate me one day and he won't tell me it's like well that's intriguing because it's like well you watched your parents literally hate one

another and not tell anyone for years and years and years and like everyone like everyone knew they were miserable and they just stayed together it's like no wonder you think you're gonna do that and then i kind of kind of what i was switching on earlier about like so now i really labor the point is like it's 9am and i'm like wake up thoughts on the role of the father like i want to talk about everything i'm like wakey wakey like let's make sure no stone goes unturned so there are so many um and I think that's a good thing that's a good way that it's impacted me but I'm just I'm finding it particularly interesting the way that like my belief and my really early experiences now directly oppose the life that I live now and the person that I am kind of like in the way that we see our parents do certain things

and we think i hope i never do that or i hope i'm not like that in lots of ways you know they're only human then when you become an adult and you're like am i like that and it's kind of nice to be like yeah oh no i'm not no yeah i don't know this is just where i'm at the moment this i'm thinking about no i love it okay thank you thanks for that it's just funny the ways that we're impacted as well because even like the person right at the beginning that said like that they're being ghosted by the their three-year relationship there'll be reasons in that i'm assuming guy's life which will make him avoidant like the people that i know irl that have ghosted people i can track it back to issues that i saw them face in like early childhood of why they would be avoidant of that specific conversation

basically i can track it right back to parents like everything really does come down to like or so much of our ingrained like instinct behavior yeah is has come from the ways that we learn that like if love was scarce as a child like ways to avoid being hurt and like how to basically be accepted it's so interesting it's so fucking interesting bizarre no it is such an insane responsibility responsibility to be a parent guys totally but well done for you guys I'm clapping you all the parents out there any parents listening I trust you guys I trust you guys we are the pod mothers after all

this generation I trust so much more than the generations before let's put it that way I'm really very pleased with that I think that really has made up for whatever shit happened last week you can't hold us

against us anymore for the drunk 2S we're back to normal okay this was a proper sephian winger this was nice it really was

it was prime sephian wing it was good I loved it it was good for me I had a good time if you don't hear from us assume the worst Assume the West. Assume the West. and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th.

It's a treat for you and your wallet.