Goes Without Saying - girl crushes: tell me about ur sexuality without actually telling me-

Episode Date: October 3, 2021

girl crush or girlboss, choose your fighter. sephy & wing share their girl crushes whilst simultaneously sharing their frustrations with the discourse itself. does “girl crush” liberate and empower, or completely undermine wlw sexuality? the delirious sleepover convo vibes are realer than ever in this provocative episode of Goes Without Saying. listener discretion advised.join the conversation every monday.speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram!you’re invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/zwhf4g4ayH Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing, and I'm joined by... Am I saying Sefi? Sefi? Well, yeah. Who else? Hi. wing i'm wing and i'm joined by am i saying seffy seffy well yeah who else hi and this episode is for anyone who's ever said they have a girl crush we are talking about sexuality and going through life thinking that everyone thinks girls are hot maybe do. Maybe we just live in a patriarchy that sexualized women.

Who knows? It's also insanely chaotic. And I don't use that phrase lightly. It goes from bad to worse. So I hope you enjoy it. So we've just had to do this all again. We just did 20 minutes of recording and I just made Wing style again

because I was like, I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it. 20 minutes. recording and i just made wing style again because i was like i don't like it i don't like it i don't like it 20 minutes for no real reason for no good reason it seems but totally a good reason if you don't like it it's not going out although listen i'm not doing anything better this time around so i know this is the thing i just i've got manic energy today i'm i'm gonna apologize in advance it's manic times for me right now that's fine that's fine went to see hamilton last night gosh in the last take i was like i've been hearing about hamilton for an hour and a half and now we're recording and still talking about it now i've been listening for the 20 minutes of recording and the whole hour and a half before recording so

take it away do your worst here are the points. Here's everything you need to know. You don't need to know anything other than last night I went to go see Hamilton. Now I'm obsessed with Lin-Manuel Miranda. I've been fantasizing about him saying, tell me how to say no to this. Also, he wasn't there last night, by the way. Lin-Manuel Miranda wasn't there.

I just was thinking about him quite a lot last night. And I stayed up till 1am just watching videos of him so those are the bullet points that's all you need to know i think that's a hot scene when he's like seducing the woman he's like her body's saying hell yes and god she looks so helpless yeah i don't love the helpless and i'm saying no i'm saying no to this yeah for me no thank you which i entirely agree with like it is it is gross but we've been through it but my body's saying hell yes your body's saying hell yes we've been through it his mouth is on mine and i can't say no can't say no okay i'm gonna start by saying thank you to everyone who

sent messages because in the previous take i went through like 10 different messages from me there was so many messages of people giving their thoughts on this topic who knew there were so many thoughts. We did, I guess. That's why we're doing an episode. There was a mix, which is really interesting because usually it's like landslide, everyone kind of agrees

or like there'll be a few outliers or like it'll be like a 70-30 split. They'll just be like an even kind of, okay, I kind of what I expected this one. It's like everyone kind of agrees it's like a bit of a fucked up term. But within that, there's quite a lot of like speculation of why yeah yeah so many nuances okay so i'm going to start with a different but i didn't make this in the last takes this is fresh sorry fresh out of

mama's kitchen no don't say sorry someone said just to come off the back of it being problematic because lots of people were saying that it completely invalidates the queer experience which we agree and someone also said well lots of people also said that the term girl crushes in itself was really essential in them understanding their own sexuality and i just thought that was really interesting because i kind of agree when i see so many messages from people saying basically i used to say girl crush i used to say a girl crush on this person i used to say a girl crush on the person and then i realized i was bi it's like yeah yeah you kind of you can't go on and on and on about girl crushes assuming oh everyone thinks girls are hot right without thinking without finally being like okay hang on a minute

yeah do i need to think about this a bit more that's the thing with the amount that the like female form has been fetishized in the media in the fucking world that we live in you kind of think well everyone does fancy women i always think like am i projecting but i kind of think everyone does fancy women i kind of just think don't lie but then i feel like it's the kind of thing that sorry to interrupt no but i feel like everyone kind of can you know how because someone else said like i had a boy in my class be like oh i couldn't tell if he was attractive or not because like you know i don't fancy boys but i can always tell when girls are attractive and it's like i think everyone can tell when girls are attractive because girls are

constantly being ranked yeah but it's because you've been trained from such a young age to be able to appreciate okay well she's hot she's this type she's hot she's that type or oh she just needs to put on a bit more makeup then she'd be hot she just needs to lose a bit of weight then she'd be hot she just cut her hair then she'd be she'd go from like a four to a seven the idea of rating and kind of ranking women is like in our bones by now yeah god that's horrible yeah yeah for sure it is because whereas for men it's like yeah he's hot or is it kind of like oh the girls fancy him or it's like look at um just any old fucking mediocre man lin-manuel he's not he's obviously a genius yard yard i don't care don't feed the obsession but come off it like he's he's hardly if he was a woman he would not

be getting away with that let me tell you he would not be playing alexander hamilton no there's no way but then yeah this is the thing it's like even the hottest hottest guy zach efron walks onto the set of high school musical 2 his peak showing our age yeah he walks on and his hair and makeup didn't take even 10 of the time that the loser of the film the female version kelsey let's say her makeup and she's playing the loser took literally like 70 percent longer than the hot main man yeah even to be the lame the lamest of the loserest of the loserest has to work harder yeah to be a girl around here and show your face yeah we need to work on this whereas it's like oh well hot guy can just roll out of his trailer 10 minutes before he starts

shooting down the fucking drink get on stage has he even learned his lines no he's a star he doesn't need to but ashley tisdale if you mess up once and i think you need a nose job it's like are you joking in the same way that you have to be the hottest person at the grocery store for some reason it's like not for some reason we have the reasons we know the reasons there's there are academic texts on the reasons that was a bit from the last take that we glad we brought that back we acted that out for you reenactment historical reenactment of what could have been i love it when we go we slip so easily from like actual organic conversation to like a little bit we've rehearsed that was a good bit though from the previous yeah it was a good bit shame shame it got cut because i got insecure shame to lose it you know okay should i can i take us into a bit of a random

point because this was a point that i when i was looking through some of the messages i gasped aloud i audibly gasped when i saw this and sephi was like what is it and i said i can't wait to share this message so this person said i slept with a girl for the first time ever last night this is recent crazy fucking crazy it's like hot off the press honestly someone alert the papers i slept with a girl for the first time ever last night and all i did was compare our body types which i just thought was give us a reaction this is so fascinating i literally just think this is so fascinating because it's like yo it's we're so trained to fucking be rating women and being like okay we're

so trained to compare ourselves to a friend oh she's got better hair than me she's got better boobs than me she's got better legs than me all of this stuff that obviously that's just even in the realm of sexual desire that is just elevated to this level where it's like now it's two women they fancy each other they're naked in bed together and you're still going oh but like her fucking she's got better teeth than me it's like what is going literally what is going on yeah it's funny trying to come up with safe things to say because you don't want to imply anything we don't imply anything do you i know it's like make you feel bad about anything i don't want to trigger you literally it's like okay go through every she's got better elbows than me it's like little do we know you've been upset about your

teeth all day literally so many people said that they're still unsure about their sexuality because they can't tell whether sometimes they're attracted to someone or they're just really jealous of someone or just like want to look like somebody it's like do i want to finger her or do i want to have her legs for example i remember at school i think it must have been like year nine year ten when like the introduction of like twitter came to our school and everyone started tweeting everything they thought god really showing your age i know it was like right okay we're all gonna get twitter now and we're all gonna like just tweet like hungry right now xd xd or like when you would tweet things that would be like oh my god seeing joe in the canteen

crazy about the sausage i was like what does it mean what does that mean inside jokes what does it mean she's so cool she's got inside jokes with joe oh my god i wish i had inside jokes with i don't think there's anyone called joe at my school no but you when you said joe you were you were meaning i told you i literally am being deadly serious when i say no more names from people from my school it's getting so embarrassing don't tell me the names then that was what i said ages ago and you'll just remember it's such a cheap love i have to do it sorry the problem the problem with wing is she really remembers like names and things like that. I just remember everything. So now I've got to remember.

I need to make a note of myself. There is a name in here that I need to cut. Because if that goes out. Yeah. Also, it's the name. It's the hot guy. Not the hot guy. Making it worse.

It really wasn't even like. Yeah, you always told me that always told me the hottest guy in town oh god okay okay twice now twice i literally was thinking to myself next time she starts doing this make a tally so you don't miss any of them so now i've remind me there's two two of these that need to go you're hunting horcruxes i'm hunting for names that i need to beep out of irrelevant mediocre boys from my school that i knew when i was like 12 it's funny to say you always tell me he was the hottest guy in town there's nowhere told anyone no i know you've told me so much about him that's really embarrassing he literally

isn't he's literally kind of just like the average joe from the canteen funny about the sausage funny about the sausage yeah you're all tweeting everything we were tweeting tweeting tweeting and there was a girl from my school you don't know her name i don't thank god otherwise it'd be count three um and she tweeted or she had liked a tweet and it and i remember me and my friends being like oh my god crazy. She had liked a tweet that was like, do you ever see a girl and you don't know whether you want to be her or be on top of her? And I remember us being like, oh my God, like that is so crazy. Obviously, we're all just like fancying girls as well, being like, oh my God, please, no one find out. No one find out. But this girl was ahead of her time.

That is literally it. She was. She was ahead of her time. Of course she was. And also, we're all thinking thinking it if only i could give her a shout out we all saw that tweet and thought yeah that's fucking it but no not me though i fancy blah blah blah no names no you shall not be named not even a name nearly had you that's it i think there is that's the patriarchy that's how the patriarchy interacts with like lesbian desire or like fancying women there is this blurred lines between seeing women as objects

of desire and also seeing yourself within that and then also fuck well i also fancy this woman but i should be seeing her as like a piece of meat but i also should be seeing her like someone i actually want to have sex with but in an actual way in a similar way that i want to have sex with that man and i also should be seeing her in a way of she's my competition yeah i should be competing with her for that boy's attention but i also don't want that boy's attention i want her attention but meanwhile we're enemies quite a hot scenario actually that's horrible that sums us up we just literally does someone's help yeah i don't like anything like angsty angsty or evil i don't like bad feelings i think i when it comes to sex i like evil bad feelings sex i like anger and angst that's

fine i like passion yeah but i don't want malfoy he's like gonna kill everyone he's trying to kill my mates i want malfoy trying to kill everyone and my mates i almost think it's like i'm not having sex with someone who is so arrogant as to assume do you know i mean it's like you kind of need to be thanking your lucky stars for being with me and if you're evil then you won't be i think they need to be definitely thanking their lucky stars but also embarrassing i think they need to definitely one on my list be thanking their lucky stars to be an evil maniac that's trying to kill everyone i love and three preferably in a dark room with kind of like red light like that scene in hamilton under a street lamp her mouth is on mine and i can't say no oh my god

stunning no i'm gonna say this was a point that was made in the last take and we think that it's too good for you to not hear it although 100 it's amazing don't get too excited it's not like a point it shocked me it did shock you i was caught off guard by this i thought oh my god that's something to like really think about so So much so we had to delete the take. Okay, so this person said, I always like girls that look like me more than others. Is that weird? Is it a random thought? It's a pattern. And it reminded me and I probably got this wrong last time I said it, that we deleted and I'm probably gonna get it wrong again. But I think it's in Girl, Woman, Other, where one of the women is black and she's talking about how she always goes for blonde women who are i presume white could be butchering it and i think it's from that book could be from anywhere honestly i could have just made it out out it could have been a dream i had frankly who knows at this point it's like a myth at this point it's old mythology the crux first crux of the episode nice we've been waiting

i've been waiting for the crux patiently um the crux is that someone basically says to her well that type that you have that is the opposite of you you're always attracted to the opposite of yourself is actually your attraction is rooted in your self-loathing and it's just interesting because for example if you have blonde hair and you oh girls with brunette brunette girls are just my type i just always go for girls with like dark hair dark hair um maybe you feel a certain way about your blonde hair that you didn't know maybe it's self-loathing maybe it's nothing who knows but just an interesting point was that as world shaking as we were looking for i don't know it was no i think it is world shaking i actually do think that is world shaking because especially with like same-sex relationships there's this idea

that you should be going for like an opposite of you like there's this idea of like okay so there should be someone that is like masculine and there should be someone that's feminine if you look too similar then i think people start to be like i don't know there's this fucked up thing about oh do you want to date yourself then is that narcissism yeah which is just such a fucked up i kind of would but also i wouldn't don't worry it's just a weird thing that it's almost like you can just never win because it's like that what they basically what society basically wants from you is there to be as close to a man or woman as possible so it's like okay well if there's kind of someone that fits more traditionally into like a masculine role and someone that fits more traditionally into a feminine role society will be still really unhappy with you but more happy than they would be

if you were both two like femme girls they'd be like well you're just a narcissistic dating yourself you're just putting on a show for all the men yeah it's a male gaze you're just trying to be hot it's a you're you're just playing into the fetishization of like hot girls fucking each other so i definitely think that's just such an interesting thing with the idea of difference being often rooted in like a self-hatred and then how that plays into desire like even in a subconscious way is so interesting well it pulls back to comparison as well doesn't it because that person said they always like girls that look like them so interesting because and also um there was someone who was talking about kind of going for people who look like what it's like.

You're going for someone who you think looks like you, but better. So you're trying to rewrite your kind of flaws or your existence or your perceived shittiness. With their perceived perfection. And kind of get with the better version of you. Yeah, yeah. I just find desire.

I think it is my, let's be real, it is my favorite subject just like who who you find hot why you find that hot and just it's like why why like what made you love that yeah why i guess we'll never know yeah i guess we'll never know but it's so like um diverse i think like it's such there are so many facets yeah there's so many reasons why somebody could be born and they end up being like an adult in the world liking a very specific kind of person it's like yeah it's oh i just find it mental or it's like there's a reason why you would be like i i find that scene with lima maranda gross and i'm like i find that very hot like i wonder what

that is yeah oh I know what it is what is it no I mean I know I find it repulsive because it is repulsive oh no no yeah exactly and I can name the things that I find hot about it yeah or I know I can name the things that I should find gross about it but like I wonder what it actually is the driving thing between behind me liking those things and you not liking those things yeah it seems so arbitrary that i would find that hot we could write essay on essay on essay yeah or like one of the this is also i think we've spoken about this before but i was speaking about it the other day just in terms of like women finding two men having sex really hot yeah like in terms of the best love stories i've ever that have like affected me in a huge way would be like call me by

your name breakback mountain and fucking god's own country that i watched like fucking six months ago and it broke my heart like i think the the love stories i'm most affected by and that actually make me just like feel so much are so often two gay men and it's like i don't know what the fuck that is and it's and then it's like that being such a popular category in porn and then also like the reverse of two of a man watching like lesbian porn is so common but that's because of the fetishization of like lesbians in our society but there's no real fetishization of gay men there is definitely but not in the same way and i just find it such an interesting thing because it's people seem to have like strong opinions of like i i love that as a story but i don't find it hot or like i don't

see myself in that so it's not sexual to me but i just i i don't know i agree i don't know that's problematic i don't know if that is interesting i don't know if that is whatever i think everything is problematic frankly i think everything is problematic okay this person said i thought this point was really interesting someone said to be honest i didn't know it was attraction so i don't know what exactly the question was but i think it was something along the lines of how has like if you're attracted to women or if you've ever had a quote-unquote girl crush how has that attraction been impacted by the sexualization of women and this person said to be honest i didn't know it was attraction i

thought it was strategically clever to befriend beautiful women so they wouldn't be my competition which i just thought was funny they thought they were a master manipulator yeah but also you're not clever enough to see that you'll still find competition amongst your friends if anything it would just be much more painful and excruciating and sour yeah but i just thought that was really interesting that's really interesting that he kind of thought they were doing like a whole scheme one-upping the patriarchy yeah yeah it's like well if i just climb my way to the top it's like welcome to go without saying pull up a chair with sephie and wing i find it funny um like the realization of desire that because i think it comes late late as in like you formed

relationships with both men and women by the time that you realize okay god i'm attracted to them like i think it's interesting when people look back people that are now like okay i'm bi or like i might be bi or like i i'm realizing that desire works on a spectrum that cannot be broken down into like the stupidness of like gender so i just think it's interesting when people get to like whatever age that you're kind of working that out and then think it's interesting when people get to like whatever age that you're kind of working that out and then think oh my god that's why i didn't like that girl in tennis that's why i didn't like that fucking girl in tennis i was like oh she's such a bitch but it's like oh god actually i really fancied that girl in tennis it was all you yeah

yeah yeah yeah yeah i just find it really funny it's like oh my god i just loved my old teacher oh my god i loved my old teacher i was like oh i had a crush on my teacher you were in love with yeah you were embusted yeah i just like i just think it's funny because it seems to be such a realization i think a lot of people were saying that in the dns like oh i got to this age and i'm now i'm like working out that i'm bi or like i realized that i was bi and that's why i kind of always had like either a resentment or like i kind of always had like a kind of person i was obsessing over like a bit of a special friend yeah my whole childhood like no you fancied each other like yeah you were in love yeah yeah like i always hated this lesbian girl in my town it's like yeah you're jealous of her because she

was living her true self and you you wanted to do that you thought you were the lesbian in town yeah there were a lot of messages actually some people it's funny someone was like i didn't realize i was bi until i was 20 like so late like someone else their message saying yeah i didn't realize i was bi until i was 31 or whatever it's like none of these are late yeah yeah none of these are late in today's society what's late it's like by whose whose clock are you living by late you're late for what appointment well in a world that's telling you to be a very narrow be anything other than yourself just be completely everything that you are everything you've ever thought the whole way

that you feel wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong you need to switch it you need to be anything else but yourself then anything before your death is early yeah exactly the minute you can challenge that it's not late at all no it's actually just incredible at any age yeah yeah i don't know it is hearing things like oh my god at 20 i'm late it's like oh god jesus thanks for making me feel bad 20 yeah you're a child don't worry about it you've got a lot of realizations to come and also about 30 as well it's like yeah 30 yeah and even to be old is it more powerful to do it when you're fucking on your not on your deathbed because that's sad but like nearing the end of your life to reclaim it then is powerful seeing stories of people like embracing

themselves at like what is seen as like an older age is inspiring it's why caitlyn jenner was like fucking women of the year and shit like that it's like yeah it takes a lot of strength on that scale as well multiply the strength by a million it takes a lot of strength to at what 50 something be like i actually think i've been living somewhat of a lie right now it's not the same as at 18 being like okay i think i'm bi or something like that it's realizing yeah totally different struggles yeah but at a later age being like okay i'm gonna live authentically now well hopefully there's some sort of liberation that comes with age as well in the sense that it's like oh nothing fucking matters anymore like you realize your mortality because you're being confronted with it and it's like oh fuck it i'm not watching myself run out

of time well it's like you start realizing there's going to be a point where i don't have a choice here i'm going to be dead yeah so do i make the decision now so this is one that i really liked someone said i admitted to my boyfriend when i was 16 that i actually really liked one of my female mates and he said that's so hot i'd watch you make out like what the fuck i told you i fancy someone else he let me pursue her because it was fit that i liked women whilst i was crying over how she didn't fancy me and my own boyfriend didn't seem to care that i wanted someone else or an open relationship oh fuck me i'm happy to hear that you were 16 at the time and that wasn't like my husband oh my god yeah well it's happening isn't that far it's definitely happening yeah that is fucked it's crazy i feel a

bit at a loss for words can you tell i just think that's so fucked up that it's like i could tell you like men really don't see women as they see them purely as objects of desire not as people that can desire things like they purely see someone be like oh i fancy this other woman and the man's like that's cute like yeah cute he thinks he's hit the fucking jack yeah he's buzzing it's so odd it's so odd that it's like he got his dick out the minute you said i have something to tell you it's about another girl he said oh keep talking yeah literally i like where you're going with this oh god it makes me sick i like the sound of that he's literally unzipping his jeans he's like call

her call her over i don't know there's something that's really disgusting about a woman telling a man what she wants and him just being like oh my god that's gonna benefit me big time like nice yeah nice yeah it's like no i'm telling you i fancy her it's not for you like believe it or not me liking this woman is not for your benefit it's a realization about myself it's not about your dick i hate it more than anything literally more than anything also 16 it's like i'm sure wow yeah yeah as i said i'm glad you were wonder how old they are now yeah 16 and a half it's like they they are now yeah literally 17 guessing it was a couple weeks ago and he let her pursue her because it was fit oh i hate it i hate everything about it i'm sorry i hope you did just dump him and then just fully just ate her well it's hard as well because you're going through

it in that situation with not only do you so you want someone who doesn't want you but also your boyfriend now doesn't give a shit that you're not interested so your whole ego is shattered now you're super confused it's not good is it it's not a good one this is why teenagers feelings are valid i'll scream it from the fucking rooftops yeah i love now and now it's pivoted from your feelings are valid to teenagers feelings are valid teenagers i now speak directly to you i know you're listening your feelings are valid they are i now speak directly to you yeah because also that happening when you're 16 it's like on one hand it's like i'm glad you're not married i'm glad you don't have kids with him and he's like fit fuck your best friend let me watch i'm glad that's

not happening but also that happening at a 16 year old relationship is quite formative and it's like that's going to continue whether you continue a relationship with him or not that kind of insecurity is going to follow in other relationships that you're having sex with your current boyfriend and you're thinking do you want to watch me kind of finger your ex-girlfriend as well like what is going on here i wonder how the situation has changed now because things are much more progressive but in some ways a lot more like performatively progressive than when we were at school when we were 16 and i wonder how many people are in situations where they've had something similar happen but the boyfriend is saying yeah no worries like whatever

blah blah blah i'm performing like wokeness and like performing being a supportive partner and then going off to wank about it later because they don't want you to run off say i'm homophobic i'm homophobic whatever blah blah blah yeah and then he's still wanking about the whole thing anyway probably or he'd be like that's amazing let's have a threesome i'm so supportive yeah exactly yeah exactly so true god it's actually that's amazing i love lesbians i'm such an ally i'm not homophobic because my girlfriends are lesbian i'm not homophobic because i went to lesbian porn yeah it's oh my god it actually makes me feel sick oh yeah i also i don't know this isn't even i don't know that's not

relevant i want to hear it i don't this isn't about girl crushes but it's about sexuality as a whole just i kind of i don't know go on say it be brave be brave i don't know if it's for this episode but it's something i always think about yeah just the double standards with like bisexuality or like a fluidity within your sexuality the double standards within gender of that so it's like the fetishization of women that are bi and oh it's hot it's um sexy www.lesbianporn.com all the boys are wanking and then the double standards of if a boy was to be like i'm bi it's suddenly they're gay in society's eyes now they're gay whereas a girl it's like oh it's a phase it's a phase it's a hot phase that benefits men it's a performance

is this is that it's fake it's whatever yeah if it's a woman or she's lying if it's a man he's definitely telling the truth yeah yeah yeah yeah literally the last thing someone would do would be lie about their sexuality oh no silly girl you're not bi you just want to kiss girls at parties to show off for the boys that's nothing yeah yeah yeah exactly get some like hot points once again the world is unfair it's bad it's a bad place isn't't it? It's a really bad place. Yeah, sometimes. I'm scrimping at my barrels. Sorry. Yeah, go on. Scrimping at my barrels? Not the phrase. Are we feeling aligned? I'm feeling aligned with you. Are you not feeling aligned with me? Am I making you feel bad?

No, no, no, no. I'm just thinking, are we not aligned? I'm just not giving you much to feed off of, which I'm aware of and I apologise, but i just have nothing to say it's what i love by the way love when these conversations get recorded so embarrassing it's like if we accidentally left this bit it's really funny hearing about yeah well maybe we should just slow it down okay why don't we just go in like who's your ultimate girl crush okay go on right who's your ultimate girl crash it's kind of the ultimate um not the point of the episode like yeah yeah everything we've said really important up till now now we're gonna talk about hot girls yeah perfect that's what i like to hear go on you go first i don't know this is the fucking problem i don't know

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kind of oprah it's like you're not trying to finger oprah but she's your girl crush but then i wouldn't use it as girl crush then well no you wouldn I would never, you would never hear me utter seriously the word girl crush, but I also... Well, I'm about to, I'm about to ask you. But I think Oprah is my fucking god, my icon, my idol.

I love her so much, kind of I want her to tuck me into bed and give me like a hot milk. Delicious. That sounds horrible. And read me a bedtime story. Very intense. I kind of want her to,

I want her to go and stay at her house and harvest some vegetables from her vegetable garden she's not my crush but my crush i don't have a girl crush but it's like yeah okay well i fancy kind of jodie coma right she's your girl crush no she's not she's just straight up crush you go on and on about your girl crush jodie coma you all you ever say is your girl crush, Jodie Comer. Well, it's interesting. Okay, let's think about it then like this. It's not necessarily a crux I'm giving you, but it's just a talking point.

Crush, you'll happily use that term. Girl crush has different connotations because yeah, over the course of the past like 10 years, society has turned it into something super trivial and a bit ridiculous and it's been fetishized and whatever. Yada, yada, yada. The artist is still with us. But why could we reclaim it and say,

why is it when you put girl in front of a crush, it suddenly becomes a joke? Because I think it's- And actually I'm happy to say girl crush. Like I'm going to start using girl boss as well. I don't know if I know. I can't get on board with it. No, I'm joking.

But also like I, part of me also hates the self-loathing that then comes with it. Like it takes us 10. So the first five years we spend, I've got a girl crush, I've got a girl crush, I'm a girl boss, I'm a girl boss.

Super happy about it. Then the next five years we spend, oh no, that was wrong. We'd say girl boss. Oh, I don't like girl crush. That's silly, that's silly. Then the next five years we spend, it's so embarrassed.

Oh, I can't believe I used to say girl crush. I can't believe I used to say girl boss. So embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. It's like, why? God, we just have a nice time and just speak freely. And just like, if you want to be a fucking girl boss, you're a fucking girl boss. If you want to have a fucking girl crush, have a fucking girl crush. And the whole thing is going to be problematic.

And you might also have fun. I don't care. I completely agree. But I also think, can't you just be like, it's a crush. It's like, I know it's just like a language thing, but it's almost just like. It is a crush you just it's like i know it's just like a link a language thing but it's almost just like it is a crush but it's also like you're not a girl boss you're a boss it's those sort of things that it just separates a man boss and a girl boss but what if you are a girl boss what if you are a girl boss though but also why is it girl and not woman

like it's just so odd all right be a woman boss then but just be a boss then no one's using your language though let me tell you doesn't quite have a ring to it but it's just like but just be a boss like i just don't see why it needs i agree i agree call yourself whatever you want i'm not gonna be the person that says actually don't but i agree but then i also think like spending five years then going against all the girl bosses or the people who are catching up to the conversation on why they might not like the idea of girl crush actually. Then ends up creating another angle of like annoyance between all the girls. It's like once again the girls are fighting. Yeah no completely.

But also it's like it's not a thing to be like oh my god you said girl crush cringe. It's not. It's not. But give it five years. I mean after this podcast let's see what fucking happens we're gonna fucking cause a storm we've got it abolished from the dictionary the revolution is coming let's have another drink son oh my god i hate it do you get what i mean though completely it's not one of those terms it's like if someone said girl crush i don't think oh my god i think it is one of those things i slightly

wince over just kind of it slightly makes me think it's it's just the the patriarchy well there are real issues with it i don't want to undermine that but you get what i mean it's putting a slight pause on a really wholesome thing of oh my god i really fancy that girl or if you're going to use it i really admire that girl i really would like to look like that girl i'm having a wholesome feeling of sexual desire towards a woman well it's a girl crush what do you say that is it a boy crush yeah i do quite like it though actually i think it just takes away from the autonomy of your desire i totally agree no it's not girl crush i'm gonna have sex with her but i do think girls are better than everyone else and so i'm not surprised that they have their own that there's certain terminology that comes with girls and i

think it's it could i kind of it depends on the intent it depends on if it's a man speaking about girl crushes i'm like oh shut the fuck up do you know what i mean imagine what that would be so babe who's your girl crush but if you started saying jodie combs my girl crush my girl crush i kind of think there is a bit of power in it i don't know when it's celebrities i feel like it's different as well it's almost like she's my queen she's my queen is like she's not your queen queen elizabeth is your queen and do not speak treason upon her but like she's not actually your queen but the lingo is fine yeah so like she's not actually your girl crush she's just a woman that you fancy and that's fine yeah but again yeah girl crush is completely invalidating

i don't know it's yeah they're two in the same not the phrase who's like um who's my girl crush who's your who's your girl crush i honestly am struggling because i genuinely think like most women on earth are my girl crush like i find it a bit i don't want to say one and they'll be like oh but it's also that one and that one and that one like i would go on and on it's too much exactly i don't think i'm like indecisive in the libra way indecisive i actually don't i think i'm really good at like making decisions it's me clicking my fingers probably annoying but i think i'm pretty i can make a decision pretty promptly i think but when it comes to like choosing favorites i don't like it because i don't want i don't want someone to

think they're not my favorite do you know what i mean totally totally totally i'm not i'm not afraid to throw around some names so all the girl crushes are my girl crush so jodie that's a really strong one i think it's super strong yeah yeah jodie comer yeah like also it's one of those things like yeah she's not my it's just not phase but i can throw around fucking millions of them i also watch what's it called um you know who's my girl crush who and i think this is really in the same way that jodie comer is i think it's a really similar energy and it's a very common girl crush and I reckon I'll score some points with whoever agrees with me is Gillian Anderson yeah you've scored the points with me home she's hit it she's hit home run with me hit home fucking

run honestly couldn't be more stunning have you been watching sex education? No, I haven't. I'm saving it. Because I often can't decide. I believe the term is by panic. I heard on fucking TikTok once. You don't know who's hotter. I don't know who's hotter. Gillian Anderson or her boyfriend, isn't it? I don't know his name. Oh, his name's Jacob.

Oh, that's hot. And he's very hot. I think he was like a plumber or something. And then he was like her plumber or something. No, no, he's hot though. like electrician oh god he's a handyman let's say oh okay i see what they're doing there yeah he's very hot and so she and it's i literally it'd be like them just stood next to each other it's like i don't know who i'd go for in a room what's going on here yeah yeah it's like oh god it's too much gotta make a choice have i and do

you have to make a choice i don't think you do i don't think well especially not with a tv show i don't need to make a choice they don't care what i decide i think i think they're about to come into the room actually i think you need to it's jillian or jacob but it's like i don't know i think one of them's gonna be sentenced to death if you don't choose but yeah i completely agree do you know someone else that i think is quite a popular one but also just like so stunned zoe kravitz that is really popular yeah i remember you saying that before i remember you saying she was the most stunning woman alive so stunning i think she is the most stunning woman alive um you know who else is a popular one rihanna can we tie these women

together is it just that we like kind of powerful, like impressive? Yeah. Kind of quite charming women. Charismatic, like a charismatic beauty. Yeah. About them. The power of it. Someone wrote in saying that they watch the woman in, when they watch porn,

they watch the woman, but they like it because it's not that they're sexually attracted to her, but they find it empowering to a confident woman like naked having sex oh that's nice i wish i could do that and i was gonna just say what porn are you watching yeah that's the opposite of my experience yeah what porn is that where the woman seems empowered because usually it's like they're literally getting their head like flushed down a fucking toilet but i just thought that kind of is it there's a nice sweet spot there isn't there when you're not threatened by a woman's power there's no competition it's a rare moment i guess for women well that's maybe why it's people like rihanna that are so that are so far above kind

of the average fucking person they're so far above that they're literally they've elevated to like god status that it's like okay well i can fancy her because she's obviously completely unattainable that i can't feel unhappy about her success because she is worlds apart from me it's literally fucking rihanna yeah yeah it's not just like oh my girl crush is the girl that works in starbucks that served me the other day yeah fuck i fancy her should i get her number that's a real fucking thing no instead you're saying like oh my god she's she's so like she's got this and this and this she's a great at the met girl yeah for fuck's sake yeah exactly actually i don't know whether this is a point i'm not gonna go so far as to say it's a crux because it's definitely not go on don't doubt it i do find it interesting that

when girls talk about girl crushes it is more often than not about celebrities or fictional characters like it's not ever really my girl crush is like my neighbor's friend the girl down the street it's never that it's the opposite of girl next door vibes it is whereas like fancying men and boys i feel like it it can be oh my god the guy that fucking served me in sainsbury's today oh my god he was so hot or like that guy there is so hot or that guy there that i work with is hot whatever and i think you can do that with girls but it's to be able to be like i have a crush on them it's almost like it's so much more common for girls to be talking about celebrities or like these sort of people that feel very distant i almost feel like is that a way of women allowing allowing themselves to have sexual

feelings for women because they're so detached from them i think so but it will never really happen but then it's oh i can fancy them and their boyfriend won't get threatened yeah and also it's an opportunity for you to share your sexuality publicly or freely without being shamed for it so you and all of your friends can sit around talking about your girl crushes mine's jodie coma mine's rihanna blah blah blah and neither of you are scared that now you're going to be labeled as like a lesbian oh my gosh she's a weirdo blah blah blah that's why i think it is a bit of a springboard for people to yeah have a bit of leg room hopefully and exploring their sexuality before diving headfirst into that yeah like just quite safely i guess well it's kind of picture the room of girls going around you're at whatever you're 18 years old

you're going around oh yeah i, I fancy Rihanna. Yeah, Jodie Comer, Zoe Kravitz, whatever. And then goes, oh yeah, but I fancy fucking. I fancy you actually. Yeah. Oh my God, it's you. Oh, I fancy you. Oh no.

No, I fancy Sarah from Max. Yeah. Oh God, no. Well now, now we're talking. Now we're in trouble. The energy has changed. Now suddenly everyone's. Now no one wants to get changed in front of you.

You fucking freak. Now everyone's texting each other. Oh my God, can't believe she said that i can't believe she just she looked at me in the changing room yeah i don't want to sleep in the same room as her can someone get her mum to pick her up i honestly remember conversations like that at school like oh my god did you see that girl looked at me at in the it's just like so much so fucked up meanwhile we're all fucking shaking because it's like you're next god don't let them find out well i hope that in loads of ways that's changed i know that school and i guess i think friendship groups in general i guess just society is still like insanely problematic but definitely things

are changing just the dialogue is insanely different now like if someone someone walked into school someone turned up at the sleepover and said oh my girl crush is jodie comer they'd be like all right millennial shut up boomer like what the fuck yeah it'd be quite an embarrassing thing to say at sleepover guys i've got a secret it's embarrassing it's like what generation are you from got some gossip for you you fucking loser i really fancy rihanna is like okay i don't think that's what the kids are saying these days no no has anyone watched the latest series of sex education i couldn't decide i could not decide stick out like a sore fucking thumb honestly a policeman pretending to be a fucking child catching pedophiles on facebook literally so embarrassing

that is so funny yeah like policemen pretending to buy weed it's like you're sticking out like a sore fucking thumb yeah and i think that's us now talking about girl crushes i agree as well i believe a common one is zoe kravitz they're like who lenny who they've got no idea so embarrassing it is really embarrassing um i had a breakdown about my birthday can i say since we're talking about age yeah yeah let's do it i want to say also let me just say i know this is like tucked into the middle of the episode now but i do want to say thank you to everyone who sent messages on my birthday like

the dms everyone was really really nice it really made me feel better because i spent the whole time crying i had a big breakdown on my birthday so much so we had to cancel our dinner reservations that's horrible which is quite crazy i think um so thanks really that's when you really know it's like let's let's call it quits and let's quit while we're ahead honestly just take the L and move on yeah maybe next year but I hope you guys are well wait no see what happened do you want to talk more about that like what actually went on well it was not the thing is it's not really deep and now I'm not directly speaking to you the young ones I'm speaking to anyone like who's ever

felt this way before which i'm assuming if you're like 20 and under you've never felt this way but i had this thing in my head i think because before for a while i was joking with sephie about like botox and stuff and we were talking about how like aging like you like you losing your youth it's like you losing all of your social capital as a woman and blah blah blah but i don't really think that's what has bothered me because that's still a way away IMO if you think I'm an old hag and a spinster then keep it to yourself but for me I think I'm fine I've got a few years um but for me it was more so about I kind of I think I thought I think I realized that i knew 25 was like in the distance i knew 25 was coming i just think i never actually thought it would come and i would be 25 like i always knew

like oh yeah one day you'll be 25 but it was kind of by the time you're 25 or like or one day when you're 25 it's like no like the day came yeah the day wasn't good the day came and went and i also spent a lot of time thinking like god i just like, it just feels like quite a closing chapter, even though it's obviously like, the chapters were always turning guys goes without saying, but just very much felt like my very, like immediate, like fresh youth, my baby youth is done. And like, I can't go back and rewrite anything. I can't scratch anything out or add anything on or change anything or remove some things that i didn't like or shift things slightly so it makes more sense or it feels a bit nicer like it's done it's permanent and life is permanent and it's gonna come for me and i'm gonna keep being 25 26 and onwards touch wood if i'm so lucky

no matter how i feel about it you're gonna be confronted with aging yeah hopefully i hope that for all of us listening and it just hit me i think and i also said like the irony of spending your whole birthday of your whole 25th birthday crying about all the time you've wasted being sad was not lost on me but i really did have to spend a long time crying about all the time i've wasted being sad and i hope now i'm gonna find some sort of like kind of the liberation that was we were earlier like as you get older i know i'm still insanely young obviously it goes without saying frankly but i think there's some sort of liberation in just being like look nobody's coming harry oh someone actually said i haven't replied someone said oh there's this pointless asking it

here but if anyone knows when that episode is from can someone say because everyone's trying to find that bit and i don't know where that's from. Yeah, we're trying to find the quote of nobody's coming, Harry. When was that said? When was that first uttered? When was that moment? When was that said? Does anyone know?

Too many hours of stuff to search through. Please let us know. If anyone listened to that recently, just let us know where that is. But I kind of had that as a moment on the day. Just like, no one's coming. It's all on me. On to the next one I guess so anyway also from what you were saying stop me at any point never um I feel

like from what you were saying it's like you sorry wrong couldn't have got it more wrong sorry golden buzzer again cheap love I feel like what you were saying was that you kind of had I think we all kind of have this this idea of like when you feel like your youth is ended that you wanted everything to be like wrapped in a neat little bow afterwards like oh that was the perfect story of my childhood and youth and now I'm 25 I'm a young woman entering the world yeah and you were saying like oh there are just some strings that like need to be tied still that it was just like it's almost quite frustrating to be like I wanted by the time I'm 25 for that chapter to be just like chef's kiss perfect perfect i dealt with everything and now i'm entering this new chapter

as the perfect version of me yeah but like obviously that's not the reality of life and you hit whatever age and you're like fuck i actually am still in chaos and there's loads of shit that i want to sort but it's like things don't happen like that things it's the reality of oh i'm not living in a movie i don't get a season finale yeah agreed where i sort it all out and i move on to series two and i'm starting from a fresh like perfect slate it's that it's just like a weird realization it is weird yeah it was just weird i mean i look forward to seffy's oh god 25 i've cried every single birthday for the last i think 10 years well let's not do that this year then yeah i want to do a thing i did have a thought of i kind of want to adopt a cat on my birthday i know and i i also had a thought of like i'm gonna have to sort out

seffy a cat for her birthday but every time we speak about this you're now ruining the surprise more and more and more and like i'm gonna have to say to you before it's not happening. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like for real, don't get excited. But the thing is, I have wanted a cat

for so long now and what I mean by so long isn't just like, oh, like six months, like since the age of like four, I've wanted a cat, to adopt a cat.

Of your own, yeah. So badly. Yeah. And I had to, Quentin, who was named after Quentin Tarantino and Kirby, who was named after quentin tarantino

and kirby who was named after that fucking nintendo thing called kirby and they were my loves i adopted them and they both died sad deaths um and i cried so much i loved them so much and i just think i'm getting to the point where we're itching for cats yeah i need a cat of my own yeah but i also don't know if i'm at the point where that's the right thing to do yeah yeah i don't know where i can do that like i still live in london i live in london like i have quite a i'm out quite sometimes i don't know it's just i don't know i just really fucking want one and i just would love a birthday where i'm not crying fuck okay so i'm getting sephia cat for her birthday then great well that settles it then

so on my birthday guys if you send a cat to the address i just think birthdays are weird like you're not even lucky because your other birthdays could have been like kind of you're hit with mortality in a different way i've always loved aging yeah that's the thing in it's the similar it's my so my overriding thing with birthdays wow, I'm so lucky to be moving on to like good things. Like, thank God I got through that sadness. Like blah, blah, blah, blah, on to the next. Great. Birthdays were always like moving on,

like moving through like all this shit. Like, great, I can see the end. Whereas now it's like, fuck. Yeah. I don't know why it felt like a bit of a milestone where I felt like. It's a big one. God, all of that time I spent dealing with X, Y, and Z

is just horrible. It's pointless. But anywho, i just want to make a note will you smug 21 22 year olds you think it's never coming i fuck it it's gonna come for you unless you die and i don't want that for you it's coming for you also this is the weird thing and i just genuinely thought it wouldn't come for me and i knew it would be one day but then it actually came and also the weird bit is is the best case scenario is that you keep getting older absolutely yeah the best case scenario is that you're fucking 27 yeah you're 28 then you're 30 then you're fucking 45 60 70 yeah we should be so lucky and i honestly think i felt shit about aging or like shit about the pressure of a birthday

and like how you should be feeling on that day since I was like, since I was like 12. Actually, since I had my Lord of the Rings birthday party when I was like six and some girl, I'm not going to say her name, sang along to the music and I threw a bowl of Smarties in the air and started crying saying, you're ruining everything. Why? Because I was like, don't sing or something. I don't really know you are so scary honestly like you are so nuts you are so hard to please yeah no i agree i agree i agree and because also that birthday party i think was one of the highlights of my life it sounds like the best thing ever for you i had a

cake how great is it i had a cake spoiler i was obsessed just the context you need i was obsessed with lord of the rings when i was a kid i had a cake with golem on and sam and frodo with a button that you pressed and it would say my precious wow and then we did pin the tail on the donkey but we did pin the tail on shadow facts who the fuck is that who is gandalf's horse stunning literally who the fuck is that and everyone was going mental nickname oh god god these names need to stop that's three now i think that's three no i think it might i think we're three look potentially looking for four okay i'm scared i've missed one so forward to be safe but you're going to be looking all day and all night for the final horcrux but i am now i'm kind of

thinking for my 25th because my like lord of the rings birthday party was the best thing of i've ever done do i do a lord of the rings party yeah we'll rewrite it and i'll dress as golem for you and i'll run around getting my precious and you have to wear a little bold cap yeah yeah and i can be my king frodo yeah yeah that's fun yeah i might dress as frodo for my 25th birthday nothing says adulthood like a lord of the rings but i can't see where you're dressed as frodo oh my god um well that's a nice end i guess yeah i guess a bit weird. Really weird. I think this has been a weird episode. Weird energy from the both of us, I think.

I think weird energy from the both of us. And for that, I can only apologise. Well, if you don't hear from us. Also, oh no, no, I've done it now. I've said it, it's all done. Go on. I'm just going gonna keep going on about birthdays and no one wants that no no let's do birthdays i honestly think fuck the weird energy

let's just let's roll with it okay well i was gonna say about my birthday it's funny because i'm at the best my life is the best it's ever been yeah i just felt so sad i'm still a bit confused i've come to a few conclusions about being confronted with something that you never really thought was coming and thinking about the time you've wasted those are the two I've got so far I'm not asking for you to try and diagnose me because I think that'll make me feel worse but it's a work in progress trying to figure out how why so many tears why my boyfriend always says are these tears unlimited as if he's getting a bottomless drink at Nando's unlimited anyway now i'm done and they are unlimited they are unlimited yeah the tears start coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming

birthdays are weird though if your birthday is coming up i mean happy birthday kind of congrats and also my heart goes out to you they're a hard time yeah i think they're a time of reflection i think that's it i think that's what i've always struggled with are you having a good day how do you feel about being this age did you enjoy your 22nd year it's like oh it's like someone's dressed as a big journal and they're like chasing you down the street i don't know how i feel tell us your best bits of the year oh or kind of how many people would you like to invite over yeah um how about nobody would you really want to spend it alone yes i don't know yeah yeah it's a lot i get that what was the best thing you got yeah i got a pair of socks that i really like it's just all really weird like i just find it really really pressurizing it is weird it's intense yeah i think some people also love the attention and i agree i was gonna

say to you this is how bad it was i don't even say this to you i was gonna say don't put anything on the story by the way and then you put something on the story and i was gonna say can you take it down and i thought i can't say that it's out of order well because i didn't know whether that would help or not i think it helped it did help everyone was so nice it really helped also people were on my personal like i couldn't escape you but like whether we took it down or not but in the best way like yeah there is just no way that messages from anyone who listens could ever make me feel worse like it always just makes you feel better but and also i feel like people want to say happy birthday to

you yeah well i hope they weren't saying it against their will otherwise you'll get them the next day being like didn't know it's your birthday what do you mean um if people want to say happy birthday to you so they'll see it the next day that it was your birthday and they'll be like oh missed your birthday yeah why didn't you tell us rude they'll hear this and be like oh wing cried all day on her birthday yeah they will hear that yeah that's really horrible it was weird i couldn't i there was nothing i could do the tears were unlimited i couldn't overpower them so much so that you had to take your makeup off and sit in it yeah i was getting ready so we'd been out had a nice morning i was crying the whole time crying into my coffee then we

came back then i was getting ready like for lunch crying the whole time and i was like you know what this is just not gonna work i'm crying off my makeup i got changed just into joggers just got out of my clothes took all my makeup off and we went down i actually would really recommend baby bow at the pond in brighton it's so good I was commenting on my bao buns, that was my lunch and it was great. But I was crying into them the whole time. But in a way, it was quite nice. I just committed to it. Like I just, I didn't try and force it.

I didn't get a birthday dress on. Well, that's when it's worse, when you're crying off your makeup. And pretend I wasn't crying. It was quite nice in a way to just be like, look, this is how I feel. I feel how I feel. I mean, it's not very wing from Sephian Wing and I get that, but it also kind of is the most wing thing we've ever heard. I actually think it is entirely wing from Sephian Wing.

I'm always pro-aging though. And it's not, I don't think it's aging that I've got a problem with. No, I don't think it is either. I think it's my life that I've got a problem with. No, I'm joking. I think it's accepting that some things are written forever now it's like you can't go in and just just gonna um rub out that little bit and just put in the actually that person when i said this they said this instead it's like no that's written that's your childhood yeah which

is the fuck's realization of i think it's just gonna keep happening with every year i mean at 50 it's like okay so everything that has happened has happened now like everything that has happened up until the age of my 50th birthday yeah and it was your one chance and no one came yeah and you kept saying on your podcast nobody's coming and you were right nobody came which is why it's like there is nothing more urgent that doesn't mean go out and write your fucking novel now go out and do that final painting you want to do it doesn't mean that no if anything that's the last thing you should do there is nothing more urgent than just dedicating to yourself what you want to do yeah because before you know it you wake up in your 85 and think oh fuck i spent

the whole time stressing about i'm not earning enough money or i don't have a good enough clothes or any of this shit and you wake up and you think oh fuck i've got nothing real i don't know who i am i actually think i i actually think it wasn't a girl crush. I was in love with her. Yeah, exactly. You're performing girl crush for my shitty boyfriend who actually, she was the love of my life. What have I been doing?

Yeah. Fuck this. Fuck this, hey? Well, if you don't hear from us. Happy birthday, guys. Yeah, happy birthday and we love you. Listen, send this to your friend if it's her birthday. The worst gift.

I actually think getting sent an episode of goes that saying is the most insulting thing someone can do to you honestly not only am i going to torture you with hours of like dodgy references and like chaotic like frantic insane people but i'm also kind of implying that you need to rethink your life yeah i'm if you if your friend sent this to you they were trying to send you a message they're trying to tell you something not sure what it was i'm sure you've had fun trying to figure it out but they're trying to tell you something they're trying to tell you that they hate you you've been thinking wrong about something i'm gonna subject this girl to hours of this yeah i'm so sorry if this got sent to you because i think a lot of people actually do say this got recommended to me it's like you

should honestly like question your friend's intentions good for you yeah good for you for like making it through and enjoying it. Yeah, thanks. It's crazy. I think we should go because I've got to scour this for names now. Yeah, let's fucking go. Let's get out of here. And that's the last time that you'll mention names on this podcast.

Is it? I'm drawing a line in the sand. I've just got to remember some names from your life and throw them out. Never. Good luck. You can't even remember literally anything about me. I can. I'm going to do one now.

That's a silly one, though. That is silly. Okay, I'll leave it in then. No, don't leave it in. No, I would never. I would never. God, there's loads now. You've done that to yourself.

I know. Yeah, that's my own fault. Okay, right. Let's go before it gets worse. Okay. If you don't hear from us, assume the worst. That was really sad, that one. God, that was quite weird.

I know. That was really sad.