Goes Without Saying - giving up on "unrealistic" dreams: motherhood isn't mothering

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on societal pressures and milestones, "success", failed ambitions and shifting identities, dreams, non-negotiables, and the modern implications of motherhood. ✷see more ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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with Sefi and Wing, I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. This is another great episode on the classic Sylvia Plath fig tree analogy of wanting everything in life and being so paralyzed by anxiety and indecision and fear and shame that instead of everything you do nothing. We're talking about some of our own personal dreams that we've had to abandon and let go throughout the course of our long 27 years on this earth.

We talk about concepts of wanting motherhood, wanting to achieve certain things, not knowing how these opportunities are going to fit into your life now, if ever. Stay tuned for a very real conversation, I think. Enjoy. Wow, okay so the last episode was a hit. It was a smash hit in my opinion. It really was. I enjoyed the whole process. Me too and I think I'll enjoy this as well. Yeah I hope so. How are you feeling? Thoughts? I'm feeling quite good. It feels early but it's not. It's literally quarter to 10. The time's passed quite quickly what the hell how has it got here I don't know we should get our skates on a bit I've dyed my hair this morning like my hair's sopping wet so far so good yeah it looks alright so far I mean it's just the

fringes dry the fringe is dry but I always dry the fringe first yeah you've got to style the fringe yeah way before it dries alone and goes crazy. And what would happen if it did dry alone? Flat as anything. Dry alone. It's just like not the look I'm going for necessarily. It's not right. Yeah.

What about you? How are you? I'm good as well. I also slept bad. I know you didn't say that on the podcast. Oh, I slept badly. But you said it to me in private and I just outed you. Oh yeah, I had an anxious night.

Sleepless night. That's two bad nights for me in a row. Go on, what's the situation? Well last- I didn't know you slept bad, not last night, the night before. Yeah, not last night, the night before, I don't know if anyone cares, but I took my antidepressant quite late, well not even late, but I took it in the evening, which then means at like 2am I'll wake up and just like so wide, like I can't sleep. So I'm just staring at the wall,

which is just not ideal. Cause it's not even like I'm thinking anything. It's like, I'm just here awake. So bad. It's not good. No, it's not good. And do you watch stuff or listen to stuff? I was listening to stuff.

Like I'll put stuff on to like try and get me back to sleep. And I probably went back to sleep at like six or seven o'clock in the morning. Yeah. The time everyone else is getting up. I know so then I had like and but it is literally the time I'll get then I've only got like what 45 minutes or something do you know what I mean? But you wouldn't let yourself sleep in after that? I would let myself if I could but I would just wake up naturally. I always let myself. Like I don't have an alarm or anything ever. Oh yeah no no. Any- Oh don't you? No because I'll be awake. I have to set an alarm or I'll sleep all day. Well I'll sleep

till like 10 and then I'll feel like fuck I've wasted the morning. Whenever I wake up I know that like latest it's gonna be like half seven maybe. What the hell? Yeah. But then last night I just didn't sleep. You just don't sleep? I do not know how you're functioning. Honestly, Margaret, that's your vibe. Does she not sleep?

She would sleep for like four hours. She would be like, you guys don't need to rest. You just need to get back in the mines. But that is you though. No, it's not, because I want everyone to sleep. I want everyone to sleep and I want to sleep. You know what I am good at is napping in the day. Yeah yeah. If I have like an hour I can I can sleep. Whoa. And I can get to

sleep. I mean that's a skill. If it's like half 11 at night it's my bedtime I'm going to bed I can get to sleep quite quick like it's not often that I'm lying there and I wake up trying to sleep, exactly. So like I get to sleep really easy but then I wake up like an hour later like right, ready to go. But anyway, I'm just a bit knackered. But whatever, I don't have anything to do so it's fine. Well you do have stuff to do. You've actually got quite a fun day ahead of you, I have to tell you. No, no, such a fun day. But nothing, there's no real work in my mind. We're going to see, oh we had to sign an

NDA so are we allowed to say? yeah we're allowed to say what we're doing i believe but that's the first NDA i think i've ever signed in my life. no we had to sign one before when we did the ACAST merch um something to do with that we had to sign an NDA because i remember feeling so special i still feel very special signing this one. because I sent my friend a voice note being like I've got to sign an NDA and she was like yeah we have to do them all the time for work and I was like well just let me have it then. yeah no it's really like also just quite meaningless but I've really signed it like it was my marriage certificate.

I'm going into the incredible sort of underground bunker. yeah. like you can't talk about this. yeah. but we're just gonna go see a film. and I'm really into the Incredibles sort of underground bunker. Yeah, yeah, yeah But we're just gonna go see a film. I'm really excited about it. I'm so excited. Well, they said celebrity guests and a fun fair Yeah that I'm really intrigued. It said like Missy Mae, Meggie Mae. Yeah, Tiny Tina Tiny Tina, there we go. Fun fair. Missy Mae. It was something like that. Yeah, it literally was. It was like Betty Boop's Funfair. But how fun is that?

No, so fun. I'm really intrigued. I'm really hoping for a couple drinks, a couple popcorn cut-and-moss in my mouth. I'm hoping to, like, get it on many rides. I'm hoping there'll be a ride situation but I don't know how they will have done that. Funfair, surely. Yeah, but you never know with these things. We could do, um, we had an absolutely traumatic ride once with our friend Stella.

The one where basically we had a hilarious moment where, I don't know if you guys know this and I hope you don't mind me saying Sefi, how tall are you Sefi? I'm 5'3". She's 5'3 apparently and Stella's probably about 5'3 as well right? No3", apparently. And Stella's probably about 5'3", as well, right? No, she- please. She's about 5'2". No, if anything, Stella's taller than you. There's no- no- no. God, this is a big dispute. She's not. No, no, no. I'm not letting that happen. You can't say that on the- This is a sacred space, Ev, you can't dishonour the listener with the light. She's so tiny. No, no. She's definitely not smaller than you. I literally look down at her. Like I'm looking down. No you don't. It's heavy. That's absolutely insane. What?

That's insane. That isn't me being like, I have to see. I look down at her for sure. Are you both together? In all ways. I'm pretty sure you're the same height. I dispute but I'll take whatever everyone tells me that I dispute. You're both small but like you're

definitely not taller than her that's absolutely insane it's truly like it's actually concerning so do you see her as a small person? I see her as literally a little shrimp. Okay, right. I have so much to hold her at. So that poses a problem. It's almost like if you see her as small, if that means you're the same height then that must mean it raises a broader question about your own existence. So for example, on that ride, the story we're about to tell is funny.

Is that I saw that as she's obviously the smallest Then I'm the mid- it's kind of baby bear, mommy bear, dad bear So basically right what happened was I got a text Probably from you or Stella on like a probably Tuesday evening being like there's a fun fair at the level was it? Just like on the side of the road we were like we're just coming back from the shops and there's a fun fair And I was just coming back? Just like on the side of the road. We were like, we're just coming back from the shops and there's a fun fair. And I was just coming back from the shop too, I literally had a bag of potatoes.

And I was like, yes, I'll be there. I'll be there in five. So I ran down to the level and we went on a few rides. And then there was this one ride that, it's kind of hard to explain, but it like swings you around. You sit in a line and it swings you kind of back and forth. It's almost like an octopus shape. It's got loads of claws and each...

Is it a waltzer? No, waltzer spins individually on its own axis. Oh yeah, I know a waltzer. But it's like a claw and everyone's on their individual, each kind of gang of people and you're all kind of, it's like you're colliding, you're moving. An octopus with many legs. And you're at the end of each tentacle. And they're kind of thrashing around from side to side. They're all weaving into each other. It's a crazy mechanism. It's a crazy experience and it's really making me want to go on a ride.

Like I can't believe we're going to Tiny Teenies. Fun Fair! Basically it was a really hilarious like honestly it's actually one hilarious like it's such a good joke it's such a funny bit it was basically we know oh yeah it was horrific for Stella basically I've read the sign wrong so also with Stella and Sefi I feel like I would come in and a parental dynamic I've got my two kids with me. Really? Yeah totally. I've got two kind of small beings with me and now I have to take the lead. Yeah I bet you do. Yeah I bet you do. We all know why I say that. We can all imagine what's everything. I said I'm walking around with my two mini little... I bet. I bet you do. I get that. Basically I've had my two kids be like, mum we're at the fun fair.

I bet you do. I get that, basically I've had my two kids be like, mom, we're at the fun fair, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, I'm not, I've just done the weak clue shop. I'll come down and supervise the situation. We went to go on this specific ride, which I do love and it's really given me adrenaline. Yeah, just thinking about it.

And it had the classic thing of like, let the heaviest person go on this side, because when you're swinging around, all of the weight is gonna be pumped down to the end of the chair. Like this kind of shared seat that we're all on, we're all in a line and someone's gonna get squished basically so I was like, right, that has to be me,

that has to be me. But I read it so wrong that it made it sound like I had read like, the skinniest person goes on this side and I was like, that has to I was like that has to be me that has to be me. Bearing in mind these two are like five foot. I think we all got it wrong. I think we all thought basically what happened is we all ended up absolutely squishing Stella to like the absolute which was really fun. She just had both of our weights on this tiny little girl. on this tiny little girl. Like...

It was really bad. I was squishing both of you. Which was just... It was hilarious. I remember her just like screaming pain for the whole ride. But it's so embarrassing to be like... To literally say to, no offence, two five foot chumps where the skinniest, lightest person goes here, that's me, excuse me guys. In I go, squeeze me in. Mariah Carey, skinny legend.

Makes perfect sense. Absolutely idiots we were. But I don't know why we got it so wrong. So wrong, but it was so funny. It was, oh God, she came off it like freaking out. She was like bruised. Oh, it wasn't great. It was so funny.

But I'm looking to recreate that kind of energy tonight. Same, i would love that. it would be fun. i would love that but i don't know how that's gonna work. i can't imagine they popped one of those out. they can't promise a fun fair with no rides surely. i think it might be like... but what ride could they have put up? i swear it's like lester square or something. big dipper. what is that? what's a big dipper? I don't know, it just sounds really fun. Big Dipper? Big Dipper, that kind of thing. Okay, well. Waltzer. Maybe we'll be on a Waltzer tonight but. Oh my god, I would. I don't know. Bumper cars. But I doubt it. God, could you imagine us in bumper cars? It might be bumper cars so I feel like they could put that up even inside. That would be so fun. I don't know what this kind of machinery requires so maybe not. Anyway. I might just shut my window quickly because I've just read my windows open. Perfect. And it's probably quite loud. Okay. Cool. Well that's got me excited. Same, I'm actually

really excited for it. Also, last episode was so great, I'm excited for this extension of the conversation. Me too. So in the last step, we were talking about our own experiences of Sylvia Path's victory. Concepts, desires, dreams that we want and we can't decide on, it's haunting us, we don't know where to go next, if I pick one, will the others rot, blah blah blah. Great combo, would recommend listening to that one.

Amazing combo. If you haven't listened to that, please go listen because I feel like we... we do a much better job. We just do it quite well I think. Yeah same, we handled it with grace. And now intriguing messages from you guys that we got specifically from our Instagram, the Crux Club group chat channel that we have on there. So thank you so much. That's where this whole concept was from actually. Yes and now these are just special. I love that thank you to everyone that wrote in saying topic ideas and I love seeing other people because on the Crux Club you can see other people's ideas. Messages. Yes so people had like voted and reacted to like other people's things it was so nice to see

like which ideas other people really wanted and it was just really, really nice. Intriguing. Yeah. Thanks guys. Yeah, thank you. Very much. Genuinely, thank you. Oh my god, for everything. For everything. Okay. Honestly, thank you, mom, for everything. Is there any particular direction you want to take this? No, go on. If you have one. I mean, I can find one.

Well, there are so many good messages there was one that I really got hooked by oh this one here I liked they said I usually make my decisions based on my instincts so I don't pick any figs so any figs I didn't pick just weren't meant to be uh-huh which I agree with same I totally agree with completely. same I totally agree with it because I think that was kind of what we were getting at in the last one of like making peace with your decision is maybe the hardest part harder than I think that's the thing that is scary to people is like

what if I make a decision and I'm not happy about it? 100% but it's like okay you might not be happy about it at first but coming to peace with the idea that that's the decision you made and now we have no choice but to embrace and keep going yeah it's really hard it is hard yeah but it's also kind of the cure the crux the fix it's quite hard to let the figs go actually and just be like okay so I didn't pick those figs I picked where I picked this fig which meant that the other figs all rotted and now yeah you're kind of mourning a little bit.

Like okay so I'm mourning all the different paths that I didn't take but I think it is so so so crucial not to dwell and not get lost in those things. There are an infinite number of ways that your life could play out. If you're feeling like that, a book you recommend often, The Midnight Library, might be a good thing to read. I love that book, cutie pie book. Because it almost shows, it's like okay so you can get so caught up in thinking of like oh if I just did this and I just did that, oh everything would be so good and perfect. It's like you actually don't know what that way leads to, you actually have no idea. The

only thing you really do have a fucking clue about is now, which probably made all those decisions for good reasons. And it's so easy to romanticise things that never happened because they're just fantasies. Yes. 100%. 100%. Do you think you're quite an instinctual decider? Yeah. Or do you think you really are logical? I...

A bit of both. Yeah, I think a bit of both. I think I'm really good, like when we were in the, speaking the last step, I feel like I was talking about how like when I make a decision, I just feel, I feel confident. You just know. Yeah, I do feel really confident in my decisions and I do feel instinctual and I was thinking a bit about that and like why after, like once we'd recorded and then when I listened to it back, I was like,

yeah, why is that, I wonder, like, or just exploring that a bit in my mind as I do. Yeah. And I was, I think, yeah, I think I'm a really instinctual, I trust myself, I trust my decisions. And I think I've also been quite an independent thinker, player, person. Yeah, I think I'm really confident in like,

I think I thrive really, I can feel really confident independently. Like I really trust myself to like know what I want and do it weirdly. Cause I also do nothing. Like I literally, I do nothing and I contribute nothing to this world. But weirdly like-

You feel confident doing that. And I feel confident doing that sometimes. But I think I just for some reason feel like, I think I also just feel like I know myself and I feel quite happy to commit to what I want. Like I'll just do it, just go with it. Yeah. So I think it's a bit of both

because there is logic that comes into it of like, I think I'm good at like weighing up situations in my mind. Like I don't think I'm a dummy. Like I think I also like will go through every worst case scenario in my mind of like, what could happen? I'm like, if you do that- You're not gonna ever under think something,

I wouldn't say. I would be surprised if you were like but I hadn't really thought that through. No and I actually kind of what we were speaking about earlier I would never rush into something either. I think I'm a bit I'll take 20 minutes often. You'll take 20 working days. Yeah I'll take 20 years truly but like if it's something that it's like yeah I don't feel, I don't like to rush myself. I like to, and I also feel like I don't take, I don't deliberate for too long. I don't wallow in a decision. Like I feel like I come to my thing and I do it and it's there and now I go. But it's definitely a mix between logical and what was the other one? Instinctual or whatever.

But I think my instinct is logic. Like it's kind of hard to, do you know what I mean? Put one over the other. Yeah, they're not necessarily polarized things. But what would you say? I think I agree. I'm definitely a mix, but I definitely am driven more by emotions, and I guess that kind of comes under instinct

than I am by logic. Something can make perfect logical sense, and yet I just know and feel that it's the other instinct than I am by logic. Like something can make perfect logical sense and yet I just know and feel that it's the other thing that I should do. Yeah, I feel like you run off of the excitement as well. Like even something happened, I sent a fun picture of something that could be happening at some point.

You did? Just random. And I feel like you were immediately taken with the excitement. And then after 20 minutes you were immediately taken with the excitement and then after 20 minutes you were like oh actually i'm seeing a different angle than what you originally thought for example with someone being on the team and then shaking them off. like what are we talking about? they're just a certain man that could be involved in something. it's really insane. god that took me a minute to get there. i was like right i'm on the same page in dress up. i was following until that yes in the man. yeah do you get what i mean? it's like totally i would

because also yeah you sent this thing through i was like i fucking love like 100% and then i remember us being like let's mull let's just take 20 minutes. i think i even said yeah let's give it 20 minutes and after those 20 minutes had passed it was like let's give thingy a call. it becomes apparent. yeah. but i think it is but i think it's that and we both do that like with shared stuff and also just in life i feel like we both go in and out of like running on the emotion then the other one comes in and it's like let's take a second or like we're just working perfect harmony in that way. perfect's the weirdest thing. Almost in the ways that I, who was it the other day that said, oh it was lovely matcha diaries. Oh yeah, oh yes. Leo and Kara. Hello. We went for dinner with them which was so so

nice. Really nice. And I can't remember if it was Leo or Kara but they said like oh I guess you're the one that kind of would be more like this and I guess you would be more like this and it was like no we just you can't really pin us down. You can't place it yeah. Like it's really... We're just an enigma. Almost in all the ways that in all the moments where I would feel like rushing to something you would instinctively be trying to slow it down and all the moments where you would be rushing I would be instinctively trying to slow it down. We really take it in turns it's so strange. But it's never ever ever the same we've always got that balance of like it's always... But when you think about it isn't that weird?

Yes it's very weird I think about it often and it's very weird. It's actually strange because it's like. all out without going over. Don't wait, our back to school offers are only available for a limited time. Go to Fido.ca or a Fido store near you and save all semester long. Fido, at your side. Why are we always compelled to just balance? Balance the wheel always. So we're always running at a neutral because one is always kind of well like one of us is insecure one is really confident. literally we always the other person always comes in with the right thing to say it's so strange like i'll come in and be like what if blah blah blah like we came away from that so dumb like everyone hates us blah blah and stuff like why

would they hate us blah blah blah or we'll walk into a room and be like we just shouldn't be here like blah blah blah and i'll be like why would room and stuff, we'll be like, we just shouldn't be here, blah, blah, blah. And I'll be like, why would you say that? We so should be here. Like, we literally take it in terms that you can't even match it. But the thing that shocks me the most is they're always in surprising environments. Yes, yes. It's like, wait, this doesn't make sense. Like, almost like when we walk around the A-cast office, I feel like it would make some sense for wing to be quite Scared and nervous in that environment and need to be like fuck it. We belong here, but we're all the room I could not tell you how opposite that is wing is around getting cereal snacks all this stuff I'm creeping around like little mouse

Nervous to look anyone in the eye. I don't know why that is. I don't know either There's no rhyme or reason maybe we pick it up like almost if we sense the other one isn't I think that's a part of the one doubles down like Like kind of yeah, maybe Yeah, it's weird. I think we both have natural different Natural environments that we thrive in and they just work perfectly together But they are never the things you would think it's never the the same, it's never, yeah, you can just. You can't predict it's so good. It's indescribable, it is actually.

What I've loved, sorry about reading these messages, is that people are writing the things that almost they saw for themselves that they wanted to do. Yeah, like being an artist, being a ballerina, and reading. Just really beautiful things, but whether you have put it on hold or you just feel like, look, this is not realistic for my life right now, I feel like it's just really affirming to like read.

Almost like, it's just, it's like such a luxury to get to be able to hear like other people have big dreams. That they're like, oh yeah, like, I really wanted that for myself and for whatever reason, like it's just not happening now, or maybe it will never happen. Like it's a real, it's a very vulnerable um morning yeah for people to share i really think

like we forget how young we are as as literally a society like it's a it's a like social issue how we all do not know how young we are. like yeah you catch fucking 15 year olds with skincare routines now what the fuck? mm-hmm the world is literally doomed. life is long okay if you have not been a ballerina by the age of 28 it does not mean in any way you will never be a ballerina. people start their careers in these things I know for example ballerina, yeah you might not be a professional ballerina, there is nothing stopping you. You could be a ballet fucking teacher, it takes however many years, 10 years whatever to be an amazing ballerina, I'm not sure. Life is fucking long,

like you have time, you really fucking do, there is no time limit, just because it doesn't look the way that you envisioned it looking, does not mean it will never happen. I think that's the thing is like be open to life surprising you. It's like yeah you might not be a conventional 17 year old ballerina because you're 28 now so sorry about that but it doesn't mean that the things that you wanted might not still show up in your life in ways that you didn't expect and be equally or even more enriching than they would have been at the time. You might direct a film based on ballerinas and really immerse yourself into that world.

Wow, stunning. You never know how it's gonna look. No, no, you don't. And for good reason. You have actually no idea. Your daughter might be an incredible, or son, might be. Excuse me.

Yeah. An amazing ballerina. Excuse you. Yeah, so true. I love that thing of like, you actually don't even know. Also, you don't know what's in store, and try as you might, the things that you would come up with won't be good enough anyway.

Like, life has things better than you would want. Life has a more creative eye than you. You might be great. You might have an amazing imagination. Life, life itself, the universe, God. Like literally you don't even, you couldn't even begin to anticipate, to fathom the ways that things will show up in your life.

And it will be right for you at the time. And I think this is a crux, guys. It is the crux, no I know it's the crux. i know it's the crux. let's take another. this is a bit of a big one so i hope we don't mind. oh i never mind. okay. well not as in like this is... when i... when we talk about the messages and stuff i don't want it to feel like i'm putting the onus on that person to like... for it to be a good... i'm also just meaning i don't know if i'm gonna do it just if I'm like I'm sorry. Do you know what I mean? Totally. Because this it's an honour to receive and I do you something sense it

was almost like. It makes perfect sense to me. I'd be the sensitive little freak that would be like oh my god I sent that message and then they said this one's a bit long. I'd be like my message was too long. Like do you know. No it's perfect it's just almost are we too dumb to unpack it. Yeah or like are we as a community, are we ready to shift the tone slightly? Yeah. Let me find it. Okay a few people have said the same thing but so we asked specifically like what's the fig that kind of haunts you? What's the dream or opportunity that is not happening for you right now or you've had to let go for example and this person said being a mother I think I wouldn't be happy but it feels so strange like I would

be forever lonely if I don't do it. Huge, huge, huge topic. Huge topic, huge convo, it's a bit Charlie ATM, FCX ATM. She thinks about it all the time. She thinks about it all the time and honestly who doesn't? When you're walking around in star com. I just love that specific way of putting it of like I know I wouldn't be happy but still like dot dot dot.

Yeah. I mean like I know it's not right for me right now and yet dot dot dot. And yet here I am. It's so bad. It's not yet but dot dot. Like and yet here I am. Not yet, but I hope. Like it's honestly the weirdest fucking thing. Like I just feel like I need to make a lot of moves. Oh God, so many things would need to fall into place for me to want that in like my current life.

But I think I really need to let go of a lot of like resentment towards men before I was to have a baby with a man yeah like i don't think i'm actually capable of like sacrificing my body and everything and your life and everything in return for and yeah and and with this idea that we share this child as we know it i've given so much it's i yeah i just am not mentally ready for that, yeah? I was having a bit of a thing the other day where I was like, shit, I'm 28 this year.

So that means not next year, but the year after I'm 30. Yeah. And then I was thinking about like, okay, it's so like, when am I having kids then? Kids, yeah. Because that means I need to get a move on. Popping. I need to get a move on in so many aspects of my life

because right now, I'm sure it won't come as a surprise to anyone, there's no room for a child here in this life for me right now. Like there's literally no room. Like I need to have a clear out. I need to have a big clear out emotionally, physically. Like in every way, I need to mourn my body and my prime before I let go of the idea. It's absolutely huge and I really was just having a moment the other day of like

okay so that 30 is coming then. Yeah. Yeah. Which does shift something. It's really scary as it does. I was I was thinking the exact same. Yeah, so I feel like There has been like a societal shift in the fact that we compare our The age that you should have a kid obviously has gone up with every generation. Yes, and like the more educated Your society is the later statistically people have women choose women choose to have children Which does make sense then, that it is moving back, back, back this age. But it is crazy, like, 28 is the age that my mum had me, and I'm turning 28 this year, and it does sort of, you know, there's a bit which is like, oh my gosh, you were pregnant with me at this age. I existed in my mum's life already, I'm 27 now, yeah, oh my gosh, you were pregnant with me at this age.

I existed in my mom's life already. I'm 27 now, yeah, I'm pretty sure she had me when she was 26 or 27. It's so crazy. It's absolutely nuts. It's absolutely nuts. It's so weird, it just shows how different society is. I mean, I don't even think about,

I think I always, I don't necessarily think about my mom or previous generations having kids as much as I just look around and I think more so just about my life and where I specifically want to be the things that I want to be able to offer a human if I'm bringing them here into this godforsaken land. Feeling so distant from where I feel like I would like to be is quite concerning because it's like, well, then what am I putting into place to bridge the gap between where I am now and where I want to be before I have a child? Also I feel like we take specific things quite seriously when it comes to children.

We both take the concept of children incredibly seriously, which I hope anyone that is having children is doing but I know that not to be the case. They're not. No, no, they're definitely not. They're popping them out left and right. Literally. And I think we really, really, really place an emphasis on like the emotional. I feel like society, why I kind of bring up society is because I feel like women at a certain age start having this. It's hard not to bring up society. Women at a certain age start having this pressure because all the generations before them were, oh god my grandparents were married at this age, oh

god my parents had me at this age, oh my god they owned a house at this age, all of this shit, we know it. Things are completely different for this generation, they just completely are. Oh fuck, and what was the thing I was gonna say? Oh yeah, and I feel like the narrative is that before you have a kid, you should maybe have a house, a fucking husband, like all of the steady jobs. Some conventional things, yeah. There are some things that we've heard in these narratives that women should have before they are able to have a kid.

We know a lot of that to be bullshit, but I think we are quite specific, well I don't know, in that those things are not nearly as important to me as the emotional maturity that I would need to be bringing a child into the literally the world slash my fucking life, body, space, everything and not feel resentment to that child, be willing to care for this child regardless of anything. People do not ask themselves the right questions before they have a child. I think you should be asking yourself, could you do this? So, okay, could you do this alone?

On your worst day, could you do this? yeah. in the worst case scenario are you still committed to doing this for this baby? because I think people think it's like yeah I can do this because I've got my house my husband and my job it's like say you lose all of this. could you do this? I feel like that is a question that I mean I've seen a lot of women and from every generation being posed with. in your best interests, are you prepared to try? Yeah. Like, cause I think those are even different things of like, it's okay to be like, well, that would be really scary

or that would be really difficult. But could you do it? But could you, and would you, and is that what you want? How do you know? Do you want to do that still? Are you still committed? Cause I think that's the thing that we make in choices across the board, not just for,

I mean, bringing a human into earth is a big one. But even in terms of like, for example, the podcast, it's like, I think all the time about like, if the worst case scenario is, there are so many things that could happen. Like for example, like in terms of trying to do something publicly, it's like, okay, if we imagine we got loads of, let everybody everybody hate us everyone's sending us a message to kill

ourselves every day would I still want it yes great that I'm doing it is that would you still want it in the worst-case scenario or what does that look like are you willing to fight for it are you willing to sacrifice? It's impossible yes I think there's always no way you can have the answers. But I think it's a question that's worth asking yourself because I think so often the emphasis is placed on do you have these material belongings when actually raising a child whilst those things are obviously so important to the stability of that child's life, so much more important is their relationship with you.

And how you handle that. Yeah. Cause that's, yeah, you can have a million different physical, tangible circumstances, the place that you're living, the people that your child is surrounded by, how much money you make, for example. These things change.

Those things can always change and they can be hugely, they can be hugely positive, negative, whatever, but what always the common denominator throughout all of them is your perspective and mindset. But I do, I don't know, I also think like, it's also really difficult because I think it also just makes total sense. Like I resent the idea that like all women are told to do

is like, why don't you just quickly have a baby, have a baby and then the second they have a baby it's like so annoyed at you for having that baby by the way like you idiot what were you thinking? Yeah well also whilst the men are question mark? Literally. Doing what? Literally. Like it just I don't know just hey if you're thinking about this sometimes same like that's fine.

It's huge it's actually huge. And I trust in people. I think that I trust that. Yeah, I do. Like I do think generally people who are having. I do. I do. I think people who are having these sorts of thoughts

and raising these sorts of questions internally. Yeah, I think if this is something that you think about. I trust in you guys. Yeah, totally. And I trust in anyone thinking about what they'll be like as a parent, what being a mother might bring up for them, how they might handle that. I trust that that is exactly what would make you a good candidate for the role. And I'm happy to invite you. You've been cordially invited to motherhood whenever you're willing to pick it up. Because it

just it just raises huge, huge it's massive concepts for everyone in loads of different ways yeah, I think also yeah, we're with you, Charlie's with you like we're all thinking about it, it's all scary it's really mental it's really mental, it's crazy that we're at an age where it's coming up more, like but they all warned us that

you get to age where this comes up more. like they all warned us that you get to an age where this comes up more. it's just crazy to be like oh yeah i'm here i'm at the age where that is very much a topic. i was thinking the other day like okay so i do need to start putting some things into motion i don't know how. what does that mean though? just in terms of like kind of in the security angle of like the physical things it's like they there are physical I'm not in a position That I would feel like safe to bring a child into the world in a security angle like we had a conversation I don't know if we have this on the pod and it raises. It's a whole new conversation I can't be bothered

Yeah, you have to come in with a loving ear on this one because I can't be bothered to like give all the context and nuances, but we're having a conversation about like non-negotiables in people. And I was saying it would be totally 100% out of the question for me, considering all the things that came before me and didn't just fall out of the coconut tree, blah, blah, blah. All of my context and experience as a child and the things that I learned, the things

I saw blah blah blah. It would be totally 100% out of the question for me to have a baby with somebody and myself not being financially secure. That is non-nefreakin'-goshable. It's not worth it to me. I'm not bringing a child into that. Absolutely not. No freaking way.

Send me to hell. Strike me down. Smite me. Oh way send me to hell strike me down smite me oh my oh my oh my strike me down strike me down dead and if that's you right now I'm sending you so much love and there's there's no judgment like I think it's a really huge undertaking that I'm sure you are aware of it's just a personal thing for me that it's actually it's kind of like I also one of my non-negotiables is right now If I was single, I wouldn't be getting with someone who had a baby already. It's just a non-negotiable I'm not entering someone's life as a stepmother. Yeah, this is not my introduction to parenthood isn't stepmother. I just can't be bothered like oh god hell no

I would prefer not to if that's okay like in terms of preferences It's like yes, you need to be over six foot and please have not impregnated anyone before. these are two things i'm not willing to look past. i'm being so dead serious. like and that's not to say there's anything obviously wrong with being a stepmother and i wouldn't be opposed to being a stepmother later in life. i just think i'd rather not right now and i'm happy to back myself on that. do you know what i mean? it's like look i would work around it but i'd rather not therefore i'm not going to get myself on that. Do you know what I mean? It's like look, I would work around it, but I'd rather not therefore I'm not gonna get myself into a situation like that. In the early stages of dating it is a strange privilege that you get to choose

Exactly. Kind of who you want to be with before you like them. I feel like you get into situations like fuck I like this guy who's fucking got no money and is a bloody waste of space. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And he's got a baby. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I would not let that happen. You can stop them. Push the brakes. Emergency stop.

Emergency stop. Also the tricky ones are when you, cause I have some non-negotiables, but they're not as like binary. Like they're not as clear from the beginning. It's almost like, like you can, you know, maybe I've discovered you can be many different heights. Like that's a very new learning.

Which is great. It's a very new learning for me. I was definitely indoctrinated into the tall... Let the bells ring for these little boys. Let the bells ring for the short kings these days. Let enter the room. Something has changed in my literal biology. I don't understand. You've just got your eyes opened.

I think it's just I've... You've lived your life. You've had to confront that you're not a giant. And you don't need a giant. I bloody well am. It's actually insane that you keep saying it. I bloody well am. Okay, okay, okay.

Anyway. Yeah, anyway. Yeah, my non-negotiables, it's really annoying sometimes because I notice them the more I get to know someone their traits you only see when people let the guard down and their specific traits like I don't know like someone being a huge stoner is a huge like no for me yeah I don't mind a bit of that but it makes me feel often like a bit of a single mother. Oh god I checked on the wrong word. A bit of a single mother because it makes me feel like a single mother. Yeah that's fair enough and there's no shame to the single mothers out there. I just had no no there's no shame at all for a single mother. I was raised by a single mother. I'm just preempting. There'll be

specific moments where like I'm not willing to or like a laziness, a lack of effort, things like that. There'll be certain things that you only really see when someone is relaxed with you, but it's certain things that I can't deal with. But is that not learning through experience? Like that's also just a part of life. It's why experiencing things is so important that it's like you learn so much through having the experience and being like, hmm, I didn't know how I felt about that. When you realise you're sort of looking after the guy you're with, it's like,

why the fuck am I looking after you, mate? Yeah, it's like, I didn't preempt that. I couldn't have possibly preempted. My non-negotiables are financial security over six foot and when you go to bed at night, I need to not feel like I'm babysitting you, for example. That's it. I don't want to feel like- You'd have to learn that through experience. Do you want to have a little wet of a hot cocoa and tap into bed? I think hopefully everyone listening like this is a reminder that you have the freedom to explore in life

Doubt is normal. Self doubt is so normal You're being so hard on yourself and you actually don't need to and you've always got a friendly face over here rooting for you from set her free. We're sending so much love. So much. And gratefulness that you share your thoughts with us. Yeah thank you to everyone that wrote in. Like honestly such a privilege. Thank you for sharing your brains. Great conversation because I would love to just keep going and going. Me too. But I'm a Jew in three minutes at my friend's house who lives about 15 minutes away.

I was going to say I'm Jew at the fun fair. I'm loving it. It was too good a convert, I couldn't stop it. It's a great conversation. We'll pick it back up another time, I'm sure. Yeah, let's definitely do that. I've loved it. Okay, stunning.

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