Goes Without Saying - 'good girls', martyrs, & manipulators: *saviour-complex coded

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on unresolved tension, unspoken resentment, being the 'giver', outgrowing unbalanced relationships, moving on, confrontation, conflict, and watermelon diets. ✷shop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.ukhear more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwingwatch more ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is an episode about boundaries and friendship. If you have a situation in your life some kind of relationship which you're thinking it's not going too well do i need to cut them off what do i do this isn't fair this is a good one for you i think this is good for

tricky dynamics which i think we all have in our lives so enjoy how are you uh i don't know how are you good i feel absolutely quite mental right now though yeah i don't know why though what happened when did we start talking like two hours ago that's what that's the kicker that is but it wasn't mental until literally five minutes ago we just went on quite a deep dive uh we took a oh no i can't say cross-continental we we just we got lost in a bit of a rapid rabbit hole of of x flames from past we did but i don't know why that made me feel sort of nauseous because i feel like i mean i could think of a reason as to why it might have made you feel a bit nauseous yeah but anyway i just saw some things that i just thought just just let's leave that let's leave that where it is you know i think i have i oh you know it you know it well i think that's what i'm feeling but it's making me want to just like open all the

windows of my house and like scream which i get that i get that but let's let's reorganize our thoughts yeah yeah because i'm excited for this episode as well oh okay good because we were just talking about that before we went down that rabbit hole we had some interesting things to say well yeah you had something on the tip of your tongue which i'm desperate to hear okay so should we maybe set this up a little bit yeah yeah let's actually try and construct a podcast move away from what we've just done there give something new i earlier was like i don't know why i just feel a certain desire to talk about something which we always talk about and have spoken about it multiple times but it is always here as you know as these things do this really is hitting i don't know why just almost theoretically

like i don't think it's happening to me in a real sense i'm not feeling this very much right now i don't feel like this is where i'm at in my life but i just think the theory of it like is just catching me at the moment and i was talking to you about the idea of like just when you know an arsehole and you have an arsehole in your life and you can't escape this arsehole and yeah and how kind of i don't want to say like quite and quite bad people will manage to seek out quite quote unquote good people and the good people then feel guilty about trying to distance themselves from the bad and you can get your knickers in a twist a little bit also i think it's interesting hear the no say hear you cry i can hear them saying but there's no such thing as good and bad agreed quote unquote i said it well exactly and for good reason and i also think of course it's not binary as no good and bad people but i also think people can treat people really badly and if let's just

call them a bad person for argument's sake if they're treating you badly say through your eyes i mean it goes without saying sephian wing will be the bad people in a few people's stories i'm sure from their perspectives um but here on this podcast i'm happy for you to use the term good and bad people quite loosely are you happy i'm happy for you to use the term good and bad people quite loosely are you happy i'm definitely happy with that for sure well let's carry on so let's have permission to discuss from our point of view just say whatever we want who we think is good yeah great perfect can we clear that up good okay so go on i'm really desperate to hear this insight so this is from my father my dad so i can't wait i went to go and visit him

recently in uh portugal and i was like i want your advice on a situation i don't really know how much to say but you've given some i think in the past yeah just what have i said in the past then just so i don't say any i'm not quite sure but someone one of your friends apparently listened to the episode and said oh i listened to the episode about sarah for example yeah so we've definitely spoken about it so if we've spoken about sort of friendship before and and just oh wait how do i say it without actually spilling the beans you don't need to spill beans at all you can just say i have a friend a long-term friend we go in and out like you know things are up and down true i have a long time i think get out of your head okay easier said than done get out of your head easy so i spoke to my dad i was i want some advice on this

subject about friendship what do you do if you maybe feel like a friendship isn't serving what it has served before and like do i do you think cutting someone off is the right sort of thing to do like that feels really brutal because i do have a certain love for this person but in recent years i just feel like it's really one-sided and actually just quite horrible like there was an encounter recently where i just thought that was really um self-obsessed and cruel almost like i just thought it was very strange and classically in the situation i kind of just let it play out and went my own way and just never really mentioned it again just absorbed that just sort of took that in and just internalized that okay that's how i am some people act like that i suppose yeah um i spoke to my dad about it and he said this and

i'm he texted it to me afterwards oh wow because he was like he he read this somewhere and then he went and found the article and copied and pasted it to me that's nice of him but the essence of it the i think the beginning bit of it it was so i'll just read it go on yeah give us a start accepting people for who they are but place them where they belong begin making realistic decisions about where they fit into your life based on who they keep consistently showing you who they are instead of who you want them to be and that was the essence of it treat people who they show you that they are rather than who you want them to be that was the sentence there we go and it's kind of a simple concept it's like yeah okay i've heard that before but at the time

it really did hit me of like oh yeah i think actually i'm caught in the narrative of who yeah i feel what i feel like our relationship is like there's a long story of this and um i kind of owe a certain amount to this person and there's like a sort of mythology behind it and stuff but actually if i treat you or who you have proved yourself to be in the last literal five times that i've seen you is some which is probably like the last five years by the way yeah like the last three years yeah probably yeah the last few years really for as much as really i can remember our conversations they have been really really strange actually just like not not someone i would engage with but not comfortable and but i'm sort of treating this person in a way that's like well i know who you have been before and i know who you could be and oh i kind of just like scrap everything that you

are and let me just replace it with this like mythological version of you which is yes i've known for so long and like you're just great and we have all this history but actually it's like the thing that i'm actually experiencing time and time again is someone that doesn't give a shit and is really rude and mean and strange. And it's like, oh, actually, so if I just treat them accordingly, it's like, OK, so it's someone that maybe I won't see that often. That's how I would treat someone that behaves like that is I won't see that often. Yeah. Rather than giving my time because I feel like i owe it or yeah they deserve it really i totally think i love that thing of that that main they're just the sentiment of like that person being who they are showing you that they are yeah rather than like who they could be

who they have to be yeah who ideally they would be so everyone would be happier if they were this different person i think as well it fits into this idea of like sometimes i don't know i feel like again this is something obvious but i think there's a lot in it of the idea of when you say things out loud or if you acknowledge something or create a shift in a relationship or a situation that you're in you make it real yeah and i think sometimes if you skirt around it or bury it or um undermine it or kind of like for as long as you're willing to look past it yeah you don't have to acknowledge the change the damage but that doesn't mean that the damage isn't there and i almost think just because damage is being done to you and to nobody else doesn't mean that that's not really damage and we can

work past it like totally it's like i i think a lot of people can relate to that probably of the idea of like something negative is happening to you or there are like harmful there's a harmful impact of a situation but oh it's only happening to me so we it can just carry on like this also i think that i don't mind yeah yeah is that i don't really care like there's a bit of me that's like it's not like it's one of my absolute main friends in life like it's someone that is relatively peripheral in my life that it's like oh i don't really care like they can't really touch me in a certain way it's someone that is relatively peripheral in my life that it's like oh I don't really care like they can't really touch me in a certain way it's like I don't really care that

much which sounds fucking horrible and mean but I actually don't care of every now and then I have sort of an interaction where I just think well that was fucking pointless and then shit and weird and you kind of just dumped on me but to be honest it didn't really touch me so there's an element of like oh it's not a big deal so oh I should just just do it because I can tell that it kind of helps this person to be able to kind of vent at me and all of that like it kind of helps them and it doesn't really affect me so I can just do that but actually I can take it yeah and look past it as much as I can it's like should I though like exactly yeah really and also can you is that what you deserve is that do you deserve to have a quote unquote friendship with someone where for the past few years you're well I think that's the dilemma

taking what you're getting just like just because you can take it doesn't mean you really should and it then it's the classic thing that I think you were saying in the beginning of I think someone like if you're taking good good and bad out of it because this person isn't a bad person but somebody that is um I don't know that they need to exhibit is that the word exhibit negative traits like they need to yeah they need to do that at the moment they need to yeah they need to do that at the moment they need to sort of you know your whole thing about um someone's pushing on your shoulders and they're drowning you literally that was going to be my next point it's exactly that i'll say it

in a bit and it doesn't make this person a bad person that they need to drown someone else and it doesn't make me a good person to allow myself to be drowned exactly but i i don't feel like that's a fair um position to put myself in even if i don't feel like there's basically someone trying to drown me but i'm kind of like oh i'm actually not in water i'm actually a good swimmer so i can take actually just on my back you're just piggybacking for a second and then yeah for sure but it's but still why should i have to do that why should you and also like if you come away from a day of being piggybacks you're probably going to be a bit knackered and i am afterwards

and you are so yeah it's like how much of it is kind of excusable and it is the classic thing of is my age old thing there was basically there was somebody in my life who yeah in their own right was going through you know their own challenges and we're all fucked up people etc etc it goes without saying and i kind of understood it to be that for whatever reason they needed to be in order to keep themselves afloat they would use me but by pushing my head underwater to keep themselves afloat and it is like yeah fine i can swim or like okay my water's not as not as deep as yours i'm in shallower yeah i'm okay seas i'm fine but maybe i'm not and also i don't know if that's a relationship that i want in my life

where i feel like i come away from someone who's apparently close to me and i think that feels like they were just drowning me it's not nice and it kind of is what i was saying of like sometimes i think when you acknowledge how shitty or uncomfortable or like weird or jarring a relationship or a situation is it feels like it's unfair or you feel like you want you just don't want to give it that weight because it and it feels like kicking someone when they're down i think as well totally because if someone needs to do that it means that then they're sure but there is also only so much you can do as somebody else in their life i recently so one of my i really i'm i hope she doesn't mind me saying this i'm gonna

be like vague yeah i'm sure she won't mind because it's not necessarily clear who i'm talking could be anybody it could be any of us but it's not me and it's not something somebody that i love so much is getting married and they were talking about whether they would invite their dad to their wedding because their relationship with their dad has been pretty uh tumultuous i guess for the majority of their life and we were having a conversation about it and i was obviously saying you just do whatever you is going to make you feel best on literally your wedding day like ideally you would be like enjoying the cake and having a nice time in an ideal world you'd be having fun on that day and and focusing on yourself and all of this stuff

like it's not like don't do or don't invite somebody to your wedding but i think sometimes the the narrative or like the story around the weight of the words of i haven't invited my dad to my wedding feels so heavy and it forces you to acknowledge the fact that oh for the past 10 years my relationship with my dad has been tumultuous and that is just as heavy but you just internalize it and it doesn't force you to confront that feeling and just because it isn't um as confronting doesn't mean it isn't still there and that pain isn't still there or that the reality of that and it's also something i was saying the responsibility that this person feels in like inviting or not inviting their dad to their wedding makes them feel i think or it pushes the idea that the state of your relationship is solely

your fault so if you don't invite him for example oh that was so mean you've made a decision yeah you made a decision it's a reaction it's a reaction to decisions that he has made for years and years and years on end and i think this is a situation where it's actually a it's a reaction to decisions that he has made for years and years and years on end and i think this is a situation where it's actually the crux i think yeah it's like i am acting in response to everything i'm totally acting accordingly it goes back to the to your dad's cross it is i was just gonna say you're treating someone how they have shown you that they are rather than who you want them to be it would be nice if you could have the story of my dad gave me away you know I think about that kind of thing anyway at my wedding

that's a beautiful thing somehow and it's a great thing that you maybe thought about in your life that you wanted but actually it's like but I'm just acting accordingly accordingly to who you showed me that you are why on earth should you get that supposed honor yeah and i think everyone as well can get very used to the ways that kind of what we were saying before of like how good you are at being drowned or like how much you can take or how they can treat you people get very used to what you will accept totally from them wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy.

It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay.

These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer,

and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com and i just don't ever think you're in the wrong for literally treating somebody accordingly like i just trust that generally like i know me in my life and i know roughly who i'm speaking to and i know that you're not going to be an arsehole for no reason and you're not being an arsehole by standing up for yourself and politely declining to see somebody the next time they offer or um politely making up an excuse as to why you can't do something like all of these things i'm not saying yeah be a cunt and drop everyone because everybody's toxic and you're an angel

and the world is out to get you and blah blah blah and like the kind of simplistic like boundary well that's the thing conversation i just almost think that goes without saying it's like boring like yeah we're not saying yeah cut everyone off like protect your space protect your energy like all of that no because it's just not like that like that is just and you're not stupid and i'm not talking to stupid people so let's just leave that there there we go okay good it goes without saying dunzo because i think that's the sort of um undercurrent the instinct is to kind of justify but i'm nice though i promise i'm not cutting anyone off for no reason i do want for it i do like my friends i'm not um an internet person in a real world it's like yeah

the internet kind of puts this weird just the therapy language of life yes it's like these things actually a lot of the time main character boundaries all of these strange sort of terms that we use that we've read about they don't always work irl it's just not that simple there's so much more nuance obviously in life and i think not even does it attach itself to like the pseudo therapy like chronically online world but also the energy of i think it comes this conversation comes with a a desire to justify i'm not overreacting i promise i promise i'm not being dramatic i promise i'm being kind please like believe me and almost it comes with the expectation of oh shit maybe i should just be drowning yeah do you know what i mean i think anyone actually i think that's how we're raised really i think totally completely how how relationships go are that and i do think there's an element that it's like yeah

it will fluctuate and there will be moments where somebody makes a mistake and dumps on you and that's that and then you move on like it fluctuates completely but i do think we're raised to put up with so much shit so it feels completely unnatural especially with someone that you've known a really long time that you love yeah yeah yeah it's someone that all of these sort of concepts feel bizarre like bizarre to sort of whip out and be like oh i feel like this actually so yeah i don't know yeah you're in a met you're in a real life pickle there I am a bit aren't I yeah I think you're fathoming as well how much of a sticky sitch you are in as we speak the fathoming is going on I think it's um do you know what go on I think there's an element of it that it's been like kind of quite like funny to me for quite a while now like almost when i've been seeing this person

i've almost been finding it like gobsmackingly funny some of the things they're kind of a caricature yeah someone so being a bit shitty totally so i almost think i have kind of put up with it almost a little bit as a bit like as a funny phase yeah like okay well if i keep sort of seeing this person and like all of that it's like okay they'll be really out of order to me but at least it's like kind of funny i guess like at least i get some stories out of it like it's just almost so absurd at this point um but actually it's the last time i saw them i just thought that isn't even funny anymore it's actually insane the last time i wish this is the one thing that i wish we could give because it really puts everything into perspective but i just need you guys to trust me on this when sephi came away

from seeing this person i was like that actually is so objectively sad it's such a shame it is yeah what is supposed to be a day of friendship or like it's supposed to be a day between two friends you know it's very strange truly truly inexcusable and i think if that was me if i was that friend i wouldn't be sleeping i'd be messaging you every day saying please forgive me please forgive no no i don't but also i think i'd be kissing you you can probably fathom a little bit. If you're a listener, listener, you know some things that are going on

in my life right now. It relates to that. I think that maybe it's very cryptic, but you might be able to work something out. And if you're not a listener, listener, then just skip forward a few minutes. You won't have a clue. I hope this is nice.

Yeah. I hope everyone's having a good time. Yeah, yeah yeah great great podcast nice to meet you if you're new here okay here we go actually this is kind of are you no no i'm excited for you you're over to me okay i'm on the ride that was just me strapping my seatbelt in it wins me over immediately with a taylor swift reference but it also i think just fits into the broader conversation, as all things do. They said, so we said, if you guys wouldn't mind, tell us about a time you ended a relationship

where you had been treated badly. This is on our Instagram, Sephie and Wing, come and say hi, etc. They said, my last relationship, he pushed me so far away that when he went on holiday, I didn't even notice he had gone and we lived together oh god and then they said it's giving the toast with floric i broke my own heart because you were too polite to do it i think that often you know it's over before it's over but you just need the self-confidence to do it yourself rather than let yourself be made out to feel worse and worse and then they said as you guys say let go or be dragged

which i don't think we can claim ownership of that quote but you're right we do say it we do say it it's kind of 100% to the shots you don't say loads of things we say hey how are you that's been said previously we say um i love you so much that's been said before yeah we do say um but kind of the i hope you're okay by the way i'm sorry that you're in that shitty situation um pulling in the taylor swift lyric i broke my own heart because you were too polite to do it and also i recently watched this is relevant i promise chats and reacts famously who you love bonnie who made you eat watermelons yeah watermelon one watermelon a day i was eating for you bonnie i hope you're happy for you it's hilarious um i don't think she wants you to do that she doesn't she doesn't she doesn't she also didn't

tell me to do that she didn't well in other words but anyway there was a whole movement happening that was just a years have passed widespread across australia by the looks of it that um i mean it's a pandemic it's still going on i think i know but those videos where people would literally eat a whole watermelon in a day and be like that's all you need and i was like really okay cool oh my god well anyway i watched them recently talk about your doppelganger olivia rodrigo which my friend was like you can't say that you do look like her i can say what i want thank you very much i by the way i'm not saying i look like olivia rodrigo wing thinks guys be real right hello to the listener listener have you ever or could you see yourself in the

future thinking that seffy sometimes looks like olivia rodrigo yes or no i actually don't you do sephie that is it's so flattering but it's just so wrong a teeny little gorgeous nose and your mouth is the same thanks do you know the person that you said that i look like the other day that has not really left my mind i think it's the best thing you've ever yeah that's so kind jay law jay law jenny laurie katniss everdeen the girl katniss everdeen you're the girl on fire that's just the best thing you've ever said you are the girl nice it's true you do have that look i don't think i do but it's so nice well look i see for who you are and you see yourself as a little rat bag so who are we

gonna trust no no i see myself as a giant stomping godzilla rat bag so not a little rat bag at all godzilla i see myself as like no i actually don't anymore i'm actually joking but wing once did see an illustration that i did of myself and she was shocked we spoke about that emma emma yeah yeah we all know emma have you still got that could you send me that yeah i still have it i haven't looked at that in years but maybe don't it's like do we want to bring that back up maybe she's dead i think i hope so i actually think she is on her grave i haven't seen her in a while i'm gonna spit on her grave bye emma bitch shout out to all the emmas listening by the way love you so much absolutely anyway we're not spitting on you olivia olivia rodrigo yes she has

a song i to be honest this song and i guys you know i rarely say this well yeah i rarely say i would rarely bring up a song and then say it's not my favorite but it's really actually not my favorite but i might get my head around it or not really get my head anyway i've said too much and yet not enough it makes no sense sense. I'm confused, personally. Basically, I watched Chats and Reacts. Bonnie, Rebecca, still with me. Watermelon Queen. Emily Hunt, Watermelon Queen and co.

Yeah. That's so just, well, it is what it is. Anyway, they were reacting to Olivia Rodrigo's extended edition of her album, Guts, which she has called Guts, brackets, spilled, which I liked. guts brackets spilled which i like love love love love that's yeah spill those guts out like do you know i mean make it have some clever over here everyone's having some fun i like that yeah brand it up yeah anyway do you know he's like make a pod mother out of it give me a vibe give me a theme get yourself in a pink car do you know i mean dress it up always get yourself in a pink car off the record look we're doing um everything shall for the mind for the mind come on come on anyway which everyone loved by the way thank you so much thank you so much everyone for the love

we hear you yeah um right i am gonna finish my sentence i promise they reacted to gut spilled one of the tracks on gut spilled is called scared of my guitar and the concept of the song is olivia rodrigo famously or doppelganger saying i'm scared to sit down and write a song about you because in my day-to-day life i love you i love you everything's fine but i know when i sit down and go to write a song and like the truth spills out of me the guts will be spilled and i will be forced to acknowledge the reality of what this relationship is to me at the moment and i think that is the classic thing and it goes back to what that person said of i broke my own heart because you were too polite to do it

sometimes wedding dad issues where it goes back to everything you your friend quote unquote friend you know use the term it just so sometimes people in your life will treat you really really badly time and time again and yet you're still having your hand forced to make the final call yourself yeah they will keep you around they love having you around in fact oh yeah you're making life easier i mean also you're just a hot commodity or great company the best i may say they will treat you so badly and yet ultimately it's you who has the final call to be like i'm shutting the door now or this isn't right i'm putting my foot down you're not invited which is horrible because it makes it feel like you're having to do something horrible when you're

not final nail in their coffin it's their final act it's their last kind of um last bullet from their gun is forcing you to be the one to end it because they won't do that themselves that would be the nicest thing they could ever do totally wouldn't relieve you of having to make that decision because also when you make a decision and now you feel like the arsehole well and also the inevitable thing is that then you'll go back and question it did i do the right thing i need to now sort of work something out god forbid they make you out to be the bad guy yeah when actually it's like if i do i do think that looking at it as a reaction is the best thing to do because it's actually the truth like if someone does something over and over and over

again and then you are the one that has to cut them off or end it or make a decision to see them once every five years or something i don't know it makes it i don't know it makes you feel like yeah you're right that you're the villain and that you've done a thing but actually it's like i'm actually back to the quote i'm acting in a way that you are proving to me that you are being rather than living in some weird fantasy land where oh the next time will be different the next time will be different or maybe they didn't mean that when they did that or maybe they know you know what they're doing it's the classic case how much do you have to look past how willing do you have to be to forgive to keep this relationship going how much of this relationship is purely afloat on the boat of how much you're willing to take the brunt

of the shit that they're giving you and the yeah you ultimately making the decision to yeah not see this person anymore or whatever it takes for you to just shift this into something that will work in the future and that might be ending it completely that might be just changing what it looks like shifting up the schedule of this relationship just respecting yourself basically yeah just standing up for yourself the way that you feel so forced to do that and it's purely you're not the one who decided to end this relationship you're not the one who decided for example to have a bad relationship with that friend they made that decision every time they put you down or every time they treated you like shit or every time they went on holiday you know all of that shit do you know what that's they made that decision

time and time again yeah that's kind of what i was thinking in the sort of um aftermath of seeing this friend i was like oh well no like they just made a mistake like that's fine and then after speaking to you and you were like no i do think that's nuts and then kind of digesting it a bit more and being like no that really is like quite nuts i was thinking it's like okay so i saw this friend for let's say five hours yeah um so they made this decision consistently for five hours it's like wait actually like that that's not a mistake that's not a mistake five hours is not a mistake and then also there's a phone you can text uh you can call me you can yeah sort of amend your behavior through like apologies maybe yeah anything really um even just any sort of communication to like

of any sort just to be like that was wrong i'm sorry but it's like actually you made this decision to do this you did it the first time you did for the first hour you did this thing second hour still going third hour still going forth then the next day yeah still standing by that are you it's been weeks now still standing by that okay interesting i always say this about people cheating in relationships i always say like you're making so many choices and i think if you're in what you would hope to be like a loving whatever happy relationship and you feel guilty for not being able to like move past your person cheating on you or betraying you or hurting you in some way so much to move past i think it's so not to put on yourself to forgive that like how the feeling

of forgiveness is not easy to come by no especially in a sustained way that's a hard emotion to sustain and i do think the the just the whole concept of boundaries follows that assumption of you're kind of you feel often i think like you're letting yourself down for not being able to take more shit almost like if i could just shut the fuck up and get on with it or if only i hadn't ruined this relationship by being annoyed when i saw them or or by not being able to move past that x of his or whatever blah blah there's too much weight on your shoulders right now and we need to take that off if you don't mind i'll be taking that thank you very much thank you very much just take a deep breath yeah thank you so much everybody for handing that over yeah if i had to take a bet i would say that you're probably taking on too much

you listening right now give it to goes that saying put it in the boot yeah go on put it in the trunk in the trunk we've got tons of emotional baggage going on here we've got room for you guys i don't have that much room but it could take a little bit i think as individuals yeah no it's not gonna happen but is the in the collective in the collective abstract space of the podcast what a couple microphones it's like yeah they can handle it totally an rss feed what even is that we've been having we have a podcast we've had it for how long five years four years i don't know what rss feed is and that is what a podcast is is that's the essence of it you cannot have feed like this whole thing you see on spotify or apple right now all comes back to this rss feed question mark question what the fuck is just trust in the rss

feed it's just some little guy back there it's like a little oh it's just the rss it actually stands for roger steve simon feed feed mr feed give it to the he's doing so much work or it's almost like a boat it's like the rss the rss feed is set sail destination doesn't make sense destination apple podcast spotify and we're the captains and we are going down with this ship going down with the ship for sure yeah we're getting the violins out it's titanic we're going we're gonna keep playing as it goes down yeah turn it up turn it up one last song boys i don't know if that's what they say but they should they definitely don't say one last song boys a solemn look they go they give each other a nod of like i'm gonna i was kind of thinking of smile and wave boys i got the same energy same energy

yeah same energy for sure um all right bye yeah see you later honestly i hope this has helped uh i think it's helped you probably more than anyone. Oh, God. That's not what I want. No, no. That's a nightmare. I think it's been a nice conversation. Because I feel completely as clueless as I was before, so that's not good. Somewhere in there, there's a good conversation. We'll mine it out.

Good. All right. Well, if you don't hear from us, assume the worst. I really need a wee, by the way, so I will will run off but it's not personal okay all right Wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet.