Goes Without Saying - grief & reclaiming the festive season: podmas #5

Episode Date: December 17, 2022

on the 5th day of podmas sephy & wing gave to me... tears and fears on the end of the year.join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukcome and chat in our book club.speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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They're like fucking go. Leave me alone. I'm trying to have a good December. You again. How are you feeling today? Do we like that as an intro? I mean, we've stuck with it now. I almost think we could do a different Christmas song every day. Okay. It's Padmas. Yeah, I like the It part yeah i like this one oh have i already done that well i said a

few episodes ago it's part miss oh okay well there you go you said it i've just kind of um i didn't want to say no it wasn't you it was me i think i've done that was my work of genius yeah that was nice let's get into it shall we yeah we're talking about grief we are I'm reclaiming the festive season most importantly yeah what are your thoughts on this just what you want for Christmas yeah I don't know I feel like it's a huge topic at Christmas like actually I went to see a play this was a few Christmases ago okay when I think about like grief at Christmas I went to go I was so weird like my mum was like around Christmas Eve let's go see this play it was called the last christmas with you oh god and it was the

most depressing thing every single member of it was so tiny like it was the smallest most intimate play i've ever been to everyone in the audience was crying they were doing it just for you and it was like this is the last christmas with you that's so sad isn't the most depressing thing you've ever heard she was trying to tell you and we all came out and we were like i wanted to leave at the interval wow and then we had an argument in the car on the way back like why the fuck did you take us to that she was like i didn't know what it would be okay fair enough that's that's so fair it's totally yeah i mean last christmas with you maybe she could have been fair good play but yeah shout out to everyone in the play yeah no it was great

but oh my god it's i keep saying it's a it's a tough season isn't it it really is i think that's why people have been i think so nice about podmas like we've had a lot of messages being like oh i really needed this like now i feel it because it's so there's so much emphasis on like who you have and how long they're gonna be here and like almost celebrating like the people you love i think oh it's a fucking hard time it is yeah really so to have some company i hope is helping oh my god more than anything it's actually the biggest honor of my life i'm not even joking without saying it's really nice um yeah christmas are you oh go on no no take it away i was gonna say are you nervous for christmas in any way like are you nervous in like a grief kind of way for christmas at all well you know what i

think this is my first year where i'm like i think i'm reclaiming the festive season like i feel really good about it i've been really festive i feel like i've really worked to turn christmas and like turn the end of the year into something that works for me because i definitely grew it so i had a childhood experience of christmas oh my god something spilled on the sofa christmas is ruined no not the sofa it's all right oh what the world's most stunning sofa fucking custard now everyone's being sick i just took a sip of my drink when you said that i thought you were gonna say um shit i thought it was gonna be dog shit custard like whose grandma has been sitting on my sofa spilling rice pudding

yeah i had really beautiful christmases as a child like a baby child and then it got to a certain age where things really really changed and took a really really hard sharp turn where i didn't really have christmas for a good few years which is really confusing as a child to like be spending christmas on your own in your room and like i remember you saying once that you ate mcdonald's on christmas yeah i got a mcdonald's that particularly hits hard like you're in your room eating mcdonald's yeah it was really like the image of like what christmas day is quote unquote supposed to be yeah yeah and i think that was hard for me as well because i'd had lovely christmases i was really lucky like as a kid i like had yeah i knew what that day was

supposed to be for me what you were kind of i knew what i was missing 100 um which i look back and i'm like guys that is fucking out of order like not to call out a parent but bad move big mistake big mistake huge huge mistake huge so it's taken me a few years and also i've had loads of lovely christmases with my boyfriend and his family who are the best which is really really nice but it's still taken me like a long time i think to settle into the fact that the end of the year just looks different for me and that i also i think i've been mourning my childhood even mourning relationships that I that I've had that are now different or that I don't maybe have anymore just settling into what the end of the

year is going to be for me as an adult and for the rest of my life and just trying to make the most of that now and now I feel like this year I've honestly had the best time and I feel really good and nothing really has like happened i guess in particular i just feel like i've settled into the new mindset of i guess it's just giving yourself the permission to give yourself a good christmas it's like i'm not waiting for santa to turn up give me loads of presents nobody's coming harry nobody's coming harry like no one it it just if i'm waiting around for i don't know something that isn't gonna exist like a version of a family that doesn't exist for me to come and save christmas

it's not happening but i feel like i've really made an effort over the past couple of years and this year i'm just feeling really good and festive and excited and just happy with where i'm at and kind of designing your own christmas exactly because I do think almost what have you been doing to get you in that because I know you've been watching Christmas movies oh I have I really have and you have been doing some festive things I think because when I say what are you doing later you say doing festive things making mince pies what are you up to so vague none of your beats I'm doing festive things it sounds amazing wrapping presents you're quite serious about wrapping presents as well i am yeah i've been wrapping some presents

i've been buying presents which is nice um yeah it's just a nice i don't know we're watching christmas present you've got someone oh my god let me think i'm not feeling that confident in my presents this year i will say actually i've got something for you have you not for christmas for your i guess it's for christmas and your birthday sorry i'm gonna do a joint thing and i'm so excited about that i love presents it's so silly but i love it and i've been thinking about it a lot over the past few months to be honest fucking hell i like need it now can i have a hit no oh my god it kills me but we'll talk about it on the podcast that's really fucking fun but i'm not even feeling like oh my god i've bought

amazing presents are in it i'm just feeling like i'm making an effort with myself like i'm having my morning coffee in a christmassy mug. In the most obscene Christmas mug I've ever seen. It's like so tacky. It's like insanely like kitsch. It's gigantic. Yeah, it's huge. It's essentially a gingerbread house with tea in. It's really cute.

I've been having my advent calendars in the morning. I'll be like sat, for example, editing these podmasters. I'll have like a Christmas episode of New Girl on in the background, obviously on mute but like just for the visuals just for the visuals it's like get nick miller in my house yeah i'm just really amping it up that is shamelessly yeah shame i'm just indulging myself which is exactly what you should do yeah it is if that's what you feel like doing just go for it i think yeah if you don't because as well i think i couldn't have had like the worst christmas of my life and then the next year be like oh let's get the stockings out or christmas episode of like new girl on like it doesn't really work i think it has taken time to unlearn and like re-appropriate what christmas and the end of the year means to me

i also am feeling a bit cringe in myself like i keep saying can i be honest i keep saying to my boyfriend and my dog i'm like are we a family which is yeah which is so cringe but it's like yeah we are a family why would you not be why would you not be i guess you live in a house together yeah he comes to bed with of course we're his family like we are a family yeah of course goes without saying so i think just feeling a bit more like oh i'm almost like i'm the mum i'm not the baby anymore should we play mummies and daddies it's like yeah i think i'm the mummy now definitely guys i am joking you can't leave him in his room eating mcdonald's on christmas day you've got

oh god i would never no no my kids are gonna be absolute nightmares i think they're gonna be spoiled right do you think no i think they might be a bit charlie bucket well like mother like son i can't help it i can't help it no i think if you were really rich say you were a multi-millionaire jesus even a millionaire to be honest you've even got 100 quid in the bank imagine um and you had kids would you would you take them on like amazing holidays and would you buy them loads of presents all of this stuff or would you want them to like basically i feel like some a lot of like millionaires would be like oh my kid doesn't get to come on this fucking amazing resort holiday like I want them to have to understand the worth of money essentially

and not be like like basically you've got to go get a job in a pub now like you've got to go and do all of these things that teach you how to be a human or would you want to kind of let them have this lavish life I think it's important for me that I would want to show my kids absolutely the value of money and that if they are super super privileged what the realities of like normal life it would be like but i also think it would be important for me to show my kids the lesson of like generosity between loved ones yeah and like safety and security and safety and security i know what it's like to like grovel and be so nervous about how you're going to pay your rent

or how you're going to afford your food and I don't think it's big time I wouldn't that's not something I would want to withhold from my own children if I had the ability to do that like absolutely not um so and I also I don't I wouldn't want to go on holiday and leave my kid at home I'd like to think that I would enjoy my kids company and like yeah holidays that was almost the most recent example i've heard of where people like well i go away with my family with my husband or whatever but yeah my kids they didn't fucking earn this they don't get to do this which i think that is fucking bold like that's a bold thing it is really bold why do you bring them to this earth then do you know who that was um one

of our good friends told us that we both know them but i don't know if i'm not gonna mention names because i don't know people want this but it was the she was from dragon's den um what's her name she's she did like a crafting company i believe her name is sarah or sarah um she told one of our friends um that um she was like i don't take my kids on holidays with me because they didn't earn this money and i want to teach them like i think she's from a working class background and was like look they don't get to go on fucking five star resort holidays which i kind of get and i also just thought it's super interesting it is interesting i think for me personally it's like there are easier ways for me to show people the value of money than like make them feel i just wanted yeah i don't want to

be like a dick to my kids like part of why i would want to have a lot of money is to take care of my family exactly i just wouldn't i wouldn't get enjoyment from that yeah like what even is that i don't know i don't know i just think the last thing i would want on earth is for my kids to be spoiled i have to be honest i think that's really important like yeah when i look at people that have just known wealth their whole lives i mean it's not looking good for them it's really not looking good for them they they're really out of touch they're only friends with people that are similar yeah but they don't fucking care they're laughing all the way to the bank what do they care if they're out of touch no but i wouldn't want to not like my kids oh absolutely oh god no it's like i don't want to raise people like that no no no no no no so i do

think it's important to be definitely not you or just like you have you have to go and do all of this fucking shit like you don't just get to have this fucking also i'm assuming i'm gonna be fucking minted don't know where the money's coming from realistically we're not going on holiday we're going camping in wales like um but i don't know i just think i'd want to really have kids that got it and we're like not fucking idiots i don't i don't i don't want to be living succession the succession life i think it's not possible for my kids like their family is like even if i am um some sort of millionaire apparently the rest of their family isn't so they're gonna look at like their cousins and their aunties and their uncles and whoever else and know that that's what normal life looks like

do you know i mean like i'm not embedded enough in that culture right now but you're not a millionaire yet millionaires you think i'm gonna become a millionaire and like i'm never gonna speak to you again if you're a millionaire i fucking hope i am where's my half if i'm a millionaire you're a gazillionaire i know that much acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay.

These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Okay, how are you, what's your relationship to grief

and reclaiming the festive season? Let us in. I mean, it's changed in the last year. Ironically, when i saw the play the last christmas with you um we were all thinking about my granddad we were all like okay our granddad's gonna die it's not looking good and we were like okay this is our last christmas with with him then covid happened but she didn't spend christmas with him and then the next christmas he was he had died before that so it was like actually it was the last Christmas with you so the play was actually um I was gonna say your plan was like a joke but it's actually

really sad yeah yeah yeah so I think my relationship to grief and the I was I think also when I was preparing myself for like okay your granddad's gonna die soon I think I was I really had this image of like this is quite dark and bleak but I really had an image of like the empty seat at the Christmas table like there's a seat missing here where someone should be yeah yeah I think I really had that image of like as if we were gonna like set a seat for him and like his favorite scarf on that chair and like it's like obviously there's not an empty seat we're not trying to live in misery um but i think i was really really really scared for like that christmas because i've always spent every christmas at my grandparents house um and like with all my cousins and stuff as well and i think i was really scared for like

i mean i've spoken a little bit about my grandparents house before to you um but i don't think i've ever spoken on the podcast but like that it's filled with like portraits like there's almost like we all sit under a fucking like it's the ultimate kind of upper middle class house in surrey sort of thing and it is we all sit on a long table and at the end of the table there's a huge portrait of my grandma's dad who was like a headmaster at school and we all sit under that like it is and that is insane it's insane it's like it's it's a really like it has a very um i don't know like it's just so so up and middle class like almost um if if that was a film the house would be the character jesus the house is the character the house is the main character

in my life like almost when i read a book and it's like it's in the house it's my grandma's kitchen sort of thing like it's a real do you have dreams there i always have dreams in my childhood in my dad's house yeah yeah yeah it's just a it's everything it's it's just such a hat like almost i know every hiding spot in that house from all the games of hide and seek in that house sort of thing i think that's such an interesting thing like where do your dreams play out like if you often are somewhere in a dream like i'm often in my dad's house and it's like is it i don't even question it it's like as if i live there but i don't and i haven't for a long time i sometimes have it in my french exchanges house wow god that made an impact on you i think i was just terrified but like there are a lot of

portraits that there are portraits of my granddad like as a child and things like that like every like these huge paintings so i think i was kind of scared to go in and like it's always he's everywhere in the house and like oh my god he's not here on christmas day and all of that and i don't really know why the significance of christmas day was a big thing but i think when people think of grief it's like oh my god christ like what's gonna happen at Christmas and actually last Christmas was the first Christmas without him and I was convinced I was gonna spend the whole day crying or that I was even gonna have a moment of like fucking hell yeah and I actually didn't like the day came and went and it was just a really nice day like there was an awareness that he wasn't there but also it wasn't what i was fearing at all and i've had way more kind of i

mean i go to my grandma's all the time and i'll cry randomly at the table when she says a random thing but it's not what you thought it would be yeah it's not what i thought at all yeah it was there was not the significance of christmas and i think the fear of like it's christmas makes it so much worse than the reality i think in situations like that as well you're also having a shared experience which is always better i think like it has its own challenges because then it brings up new dynamics and like issues but it also brings a lot of just love yeah i'm getting a bit teary-eyed i don't really know why i i know why i know why i'm really sorry do you know oh my god do you want to do do you want to take it no i'm

fine i'm actually fine i was almost just like god i almost i don't know why i didn't think of it in grief and fucking christmas obviously it just is a lot it just is a lot just weird times but thank you for sharing thank you for sharing i think a lot of people can relate to feeling nervous about um even just family events to be honest or like big things with that people you haven't seen in a while right let's take a minute yeah can we take a break sorry yeah no never never never never that was amazing though also my friend is literally in the process of moving out like her stuff right now her parents are gonna walk in and be like what she's gonna come in and say bye yeah oh dear right let me just wipe these this is a fun episode as well oh my god it's so fun it's fun

and festive and jingle jangle yeah can you hear them walking upstairs are they coming right now no no they're like moving her stuff down the stairs no right i'm all good i'm all good yeah yeah okay sure yeah 100 yeah i think there's a lot of hesitation around it just feels do you understand there's a lot of hesitation around things like new year even like new year's eve what are you doing for new year's eve there's a lot of pressure around new year's eve isn't there there's so much pressure there's so much i feel like everyone i speak to hates new year's eve everyone's like oh what are we doing i hate it so why do we do this then it's really i haven't ever spoken to anyone that's like i fucking love new year's eve yeah i don't particularly like it do you like it really

i like it when i'm having a good one and i don't like it when i'm having a bad one i can't really picture one that like I've had neutral ones or just like the ones that have been like good but I can't really picture one like for example Christmas it's like that was a fucking good Christmas or like that Halloween that was a fucking good Halloween or good birthday or whatever I haven't had a New Year's Eve that sticks in my head of like that was sick well I think it's around that time like i do i really do feel like the end of the year and the start of a new year is such an overwhelming time that i then almost and then you kind of go into the gray of like january february where you're like adjusting to the fact

that you're apparently in a new year whatever that means i like it objectively means fucking nothing fucking nothing you have no plans no money and everything is just so gray and like gray January yeah it's like no wonder you're wiping that from your memory because you're fucking processing what the fuck has happened yeah um but I feel like going in with pressure really sucks the fun out of things I mean there's nothing that's gonna suck the fun out of anything like adding some like stress to it like this has to be good even what it's gonna be bad then even should we say even the end of like you leaving london like you're about to move and a couple of days ago you were

so ill and like a bit upset about feeling like you hadn't made the most of the end of your time there i was really upset like i was almost as we all know that i keep saying i never really get ill and i got ill i was i had to leave i found it and i'm never going to start about it it was a crazy curse it's actually particularly rude for me to say this to you because you're ill i would say once a month yeah yeah no i am i am so like it was just one of those things where i was like oh my god it's my second to last week in london i'm wasting it like i don't want to valid i don't want to have left london and then just be like oh i didn't make the most of it but i actually feel like i have i basically have no

other option than to like relax into it you can't you're fucking ill but since being better oh my god i've had a blast so i just think she's had the best time yeah i'm having a good time so i almost think um i'm more at peace with the idea of leaving london now and also it's so arbitrary to put this thing about leaving london exactly it's like it's not going anywhere it's not going anywhere i'll be back in january like as in i'll come and visit in january i'm not gonna have a house you'll be in the south like you'll still be in the south right um yeah yeah i'll be in the south but also like i feel like i'm gonna be life is just everyone like you're probably just gonna be in london like once twice a week i just don't know i think it's just i'm moving more into an unknown thing yeah i know

what i'm doing i've got five weeks planned but other than that which i'm really excited for but like other than that i don't know what the fuck i'm doing um but i think that's what i need i need a bit of um fun and like and unknown but i definitely think leaving something that is known and safe and stunning feels like um scary god well you need to make the most of it and like whilst you've got this but it's like oh fuck off like it's not really an issue is it is there anything that you do or like because i know the other day you're like i'm not really like i haven't felt festive yet like i feel like behind or whatever yeah is there anything you want to do yeah did i mention i'd be nil i haven't felt festive yeah is there anything that you or even that you could like advertise to to like try and

introduce into your life a bit of fun or if someone's trying to make the end of the year a bit more bearable what are some fun little like just nice things you can do for yourself go to the cinema on your own stunning it's the ultimate thing you can do it's the fucking ultimate thing you can do go on your own right okay so you've got like a day i love it there's it's like cold outside everyone's fucking busy for some reason everyone's up to their own shit thank the fucking lord you've got a day on your own you can just be like what do i want to do okay so your options are you can fucking scroll tiktok all day or you can go to the fucking cinema on your own those are the only two options in life go to the cinema on your own a day in seffy's head go and see the menu stunning

it was so good i really loved it i'm really excited to see it again why on your own do you think i think it's a different level of commitment to yourself going with someone else fucking stunning going on your own wow you dedicate you've decided what you want to do yeah go with someone if you want but also go on your own go twice a day back to back it yeah pay for one ticket and sneak into all the other screens yeah i believe in the office they call it second halfing they're like i don't know what that is um i would also say if you're really as i always say nowhere to push but if you're feeling really brave and festive if there's something that's been tainted for you try and slowly reclaim it go on that sounds it's very bold but i think well i think there are certain things you know people

in life we'll do it withhold certain pleasures from ourselves. Always. That's all we do. I think that's the human condition. Almost, you want to do fun things, but every bit of guilt and conditioning you've had is just like, they're so shameful. I can't do that. Yeah. Yeah.

I couldn't possibly have a toffee apple every day. Why the fuck not? It's my favourite food. I mean, I can't source them, like, unless I'm going to make them for myself. Do you know what? I was actually talking about this an hour ago my brother eats mince pies all year round he fucking loves them oh my god they're so stunning where's he get them from is he has a mince pie and he adds extra meat mince meat to it like he has a jar of mince meat that he

puts on top of his mince pie wow and he loves them and it's almost like why can you only have those at christmas well i can't find them so where's he getting them from he makes like after january oh my god can you get him to make me some genuinely i'll actually pay him now i know he'll do it if i pay him he loves it he makes them really good as well god i don't like mince pies i love mince pies and it's always a thing that yeah my boyfriend will like try and get me like a good few boxes yeah towards the end of like december january and like hold on to them because after that you can't get them in the supermarket i also knew my friend loved cream eggs she loves loves cream eggs but i didn't know this you can only get them at easter apparently yeah or in a

box of heroes for christmas of course but so but yeah in the easter season she would get a shoe box and buy out all of the um eggs in the vicinity and fill the shoebox of cream eggs and it's like that's genius you love cream eggs what you're gonna go through fucking 11 months of the year without them why would you yeah why would you do that why should you you shouldn't you should not you shouldn't be without it you shouldn't be without the things that you love yeah prove it eat them buy them all get a shoebox and fill it to the brim yeah i think if there are just small things that maybe like you're nervous to do or you feel like oh i can only do that with like other people or that was our thing that we used to do or

little things that like you for some reason think it's like a bit sad to do it on your own on a random day in december what would you find sad to do on your own i think people maybe like would watch a christmas film like only with like friends or family or just any or like have a roast dinner it's like just cook yourself a roast dinner if you're into that yeah yeah i think so you can watch a christmas movie in june on your own on a sunny summer's day yeah okay let's leave it there oh stunning okay cool all right well see you fucking later what is it again congratulations on the pod on the podmas it really is because we're smashing them out these days oh we fucking are congrats congratulations on the podmas genuinely by the way congratulations on the pod. We're killing it. We're killing it.