Goes Without Saying - growing up & growing apart: betrayal, boredom, & the trauma olympics

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on feeling disconnected, loneliness, betrayal, exes, 'toxic' friendships, communication and under-the-surface resentment, trauma (dumping), fcking up and forgiveness. ✷shop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.ukhear more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwingwatch more ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is such a nice episode. We're talking about friendship. We talk about breakups, exes and sort of friendship loyalties, which hits pretty hard. We talk about, God, there's one crazy dilemma that we talk about in this, which I mean, I'm going

to be thinking about for the rest of the day, I think. No spoilers yet, but you'll hear it straight away as in literally a few minutes um so enjoy okay hi i feel hi i feel really good about this actually i feel really excited to record yeah me too i don't know what we're gonna say yet but i'm excited about the topic same i just feel like quite high off the back of the last episode we recorded technically yesterday it was very like it came out then like a couple the last episode we recorded technically yesterday it was very like it came out then like a couple of hours after we recorded it we were late sorry yeah thanks for not bringing it up yeah thank you guys just like no one calling us out on that yeah thanks guys yeah i don't know i just enjoyed that episode and i feel like we can have just a nice chilled

conversation it's funny that you enjoyed it i think maybe i've just blanked it out because i'm in a weird stage of my life at the moment um yeah hard things still going on behind the scenes yeah um so my energy's just maybe everyone could send some love just telepathically well thank you if you are but there's nothing you can do to be honest it's just terrible but they can send love i think thank you i think that works yeah thank you because it means something yeah it does no it means it means stuff to me um yeah yeah so i'm i just feel like i'm in such a fucking to be honest terrible stage of my life which sounds really dramatic and horrible it doesn't sound dramatic it's just i'm just in a shit stage at the moment and yeah it's just horrible so i just i feel like i can't even remember the last

episode and my energy is just weird in all of them at the moment and i'm so sorry but there's nothing i can do at the moment i'm sorry don't you dare even go there how dare you apologize no you know i wouldn't want to listen no you don't mean that a weird energy person but i just am weird energy at the moment the thing is you're you're a weird energy 24 7 true true and it's kind of low energy which isn't nice well i don't know if that i think it's you'd feel like you're not coming as your best no i know i'm not but i've kind of resigned myself to Like, I'm fine to be not my best because there's no way that I possibly could be at the moment. But just who you are is the best. The best.

Well, thank you. It's true. And that's all we want from you. Yeah, thank you. And also, at your own pace. We have had many a conversation behind your guys' back of, like, not recording and, and you know we're taking time what we're kind of doing at the moment is because i'm kind of in a limbo stage of my life right now actually maybe i'll just say my grandma's really ill at the moment she's in hospital and it's fucking shit as fuck um and

i'm kind of in this weird limbo stage of like everything fucking becoming terrible to be honest and i feel like because nothing the worst has not happened yet so it's not like i'm in a sort of mourning stage but i'm sort of gearing myself up to what the doctors are saying is inevitable at this point so it's really weird like i'm kind of fine on the surface and then there's this weird undercurrent of shit sadness underneath so we're kind of catching the moments like there's no reason why I can't record today sort of thing like there's no reason why I'm not like sitting in bed crying I'm like going about my life but just with like a shit sadness yeah so we're just kind of catching the

moments where it feels like yeah okay i can actually record i can talk and also i'm just concerned that i'm not really concerned because you're not concerned but you have an awareness yeah exactly exactly but basically that's what's going on that's why i'm really sad at the moment but i think it's important for you to just feel comfortable to just come however you want and we don't expect anything from you and we are at your service and at your back and call and you're ruling the room thank you love to hear your love my service no we are we are literally i'll speak for every single one of us harry i know i speak directly to you we're truly nothing but at your service oh thank you so much i didn't realize i had an army i know i know everyone's just sending you

everyone's kind of like squinting sending the love everyone's reaching out their hands into the ether to send you their well wishes thanks everyone it's true i know it's true and i think it's just take the pressure off we just yeah i'm happy just to have a a soft nice calm gentle lovely episode so i'm gonna say then we were planning to talk about friendship but then i was gonna say do you know do you want to stay on this topic but i don't think you do this so i think hell no yeah or just like the idea of like being kind to yourself when you're not feeling great or whatever but i just think it's too dangerous too close for comfort so i think we should do i'm happy to do friendship i'm happy to i just have the awareness that that sounds mental to be like so seffy come on let's talk

about friendship now no i'm happy to do friendship but i trust myself that that is the right thing to do yeah yeah definitely yeah um well we were actually just discussing off the pod some friendship dilemmas oh yeah of our own oh we've got them and i feel like the reason that actually that this conversation came up that we're going to talk about it now obviously we talk about friendship literally every freaking day of our lives boring but it was just kind of the general awareness of as you get older it kind of requires more to like hold on to friendships like kind of historic friendships friendships that like have been

around for a longer time or don't necessarily fit into like your everyday routine schedule like i couldn't get away from you if i tried like we are talking all the time it's like there's nothing i can do about it yeah like i don't think we when we made the decision to do this actually knew what we were getting ourselves into a couple single mothers sharing a bed together i don't think we accidentally made a child we just didn't know like oh we'll just start a podcast it's like we didn't really prep ourselves for like what if it goes well that means we're in constant communication at all times every day like to the quest every day and sometimes to the point where it's like i need to kind of exchange brains with you sometimes yeah there's so much going on that it's like oh i just

like i have to do a lot of dumping with you like we have to kind of like fill each other in on that way but i do think that is it's kind of something that i touched on in a previous episode where i was saying about like long distance relationships and even like i think this is the same for friendship that that it's all the kind of mundane stuff in your day-to-day and all the silly little updates that like get lost because you kind of think oh you know i'm talking to sarah i can't be bothered to like sarah doesn't care about like what i had for lunch or like what my colleague said and then before you know it it's like sarah doesn't know that you're um vegetarian now or sarah doesn't know the names of the people that you work with or how you found that project at

work like yeah and you start to lose just like um your sense of who the other person is which i don't necessarily is um a huge issue like it's not damning like i think you can work around it because i think some of the best friendships are the ones where it's like you just meet up and it's like you don't even talk about anything that's going on in life. You're just kind of like having a great time. Yeah. And you're just like enjoying each other's company. I think that's actually crucial. Yeah.

I really do. And actually my red flag of when I can feel the almost like see or recognize maybe that a friendship is like flailing and like maybe not doing too well is when it becomes catch up after catch up after catch up that isn't a good sign for me at all like when i realized that shit the last three times that we saw each other have been us filling each other in yeah that is not necessarily to me a friendship that is fucking admin because what is that the it's you're i mean it's you're constantly having to reintroduce each other to one another yeah which is a huge part of like just catch up yeah the catch up why like either be in it or don't i don't care to hear second hand yeah go for it i don't care to hear second hand about obviously there's so much that

you need to be in but i don't want to hear it two months late i want it be i want to be there you should be i don't know like obviously there's so much that you can't be updated with all the time but i do feel like if if i'm getting in a habit where we meet for coffee every single time and it's just a two hours of lovely chit chat and we'll just catch up oh back we go and then in three months time we'll do the same thing what purpose is that serving i truly think that is serving the purpose of reintroduction which is important i think when you're growing as people alongside or distant from each other but i think at the same time just as important as like being able to see and distant from each other. But I think at the same time, just as important as like, being able to see and know who each other are, and also like leave room for who you will

be in the future. At the same time, I think it's really important to enjoy each other in that present moment and almost like, talk about what you're looking at then and there. Like, have an experience on this coffee right now. What are your thoughts on that guy's shoes i had shoes like that blah blah blah like something more this is why catch-up does not facilitate that sort of experience like a catch-up it's hard to live in that moment because the whole thing is conversational like a cafe is not necessarily the prime place to make memories it's the place to like we make a lot of memories in cafes i think it's not a place it's a place that facilitates like conversation it facilitates coffee i would say it does and cakes and amazing things they serve an incredible purpose an array

they're incredible places yeah so are restaurants i think they're amazing. But they're not the height necessarily of like friendship, bonanza, spectacular extravaganza. I don't think that they can be. And sitcoms would disagree. Friends, all of these places would disagree. I don't think that like cafes are necessarily. Literally challenging the idea of friends. I don't think that's going to work. David Crane. challenging the idea of friends i don't think that's gonna work david crane i don't think it can be the basis of catch-ups yeah and all of this stuff i think it's like okay so my top tip

for like if you feel like oh god the last few times i've seen this person it's just been like we kind of fill each other in and it feels very surface and dry and like it that's potentially not what you want with the person like maybe you both have got so much more to give and you feel that that isn't really doing it justice and i've been there with people before i just think like what are we doing i don't we're just filling each other in and like things that are happening in our independent lives with nothing to do with um it's like go and do something like actually go and do share an experience with this person yeah i love that um and it and it breathes some life into it rather than kind of like the bureaucracy of just like

here we are sharing notes just talking about things that happened a while ago to you that's nothing really to do with them i think even though i do think that can be fine if your heart's in it to me it's like it's not just about like oh we're doing admin it's like if the con it doesn't matter what the conversation is whether it's just catching up or whether it's like literally could be anything but it's when you can feel like your heart's not in it and there's something kind of unsaid and it's just a little bit kind of grating like there's just it's not necessarily friction but it's not a smooth conversation do you know what i mean like it's not a smooth i just think it's unnatural yeah it's an unnatural thing because that can be that's so important in a friendship as well as there is also um some kind of like commonality

between you two for two people just have catch up after catch up after catch up for me anyway i've just felt like what's the point of this yeah good for you there needs to be some sort of present day life in it what is the point of this are we is it like is the i don't know no i love it the point is enjoyment and like pleasure and mutual like fun yeah but then why don't you go do something like why don't you go do something nice have the coffee and also then do something else um it is hailing here now so you might it was just raining here as well i think it's gonna be rainbow i think you can really hear open you might be able to really hear this oh yeah that's beautiful rainbow behind me um yeah i think you're gonna hear the hail so yeah of tiny feet um yeah and by tiny feet i mean it's raining yeah okay shall we get into some thoughts that we are gathering from our instagram

sephian wing as you know um let me have a look oh oh go on Let's do that one. Whoa. Whoa. Oh my God, let's go. Whoa. Whoa. Go. That is actually one of the craziest things. I was just looking through trying to work out which one it was. This is one of the craziest things I think I've ever fucking heard in my life. First of all, just to be clear, if you're having friendship dilemmas and you like this podcast in any way, I hope you feel in some way like we're keeping you company and we're filling some sort of gap for you.

Yeah, 100%. Love to be friends with you guys. it's the greatest honor we've ever had honestly it's a great truly an honor and more than we ever truly bestowed unbeknownst to us truly unbeknownst okay this person said and i can't believe it they said one of my closest friends said i have no trauma right weird yeah immediately people are crazy and then in brackets i became disabled at 15 and experienced so much bereavement but my trauma is different to hers as i am lucky enough to to have two present parents she was drunk and probably doesn't remember it but i think about it often you have to bring this up then i think what the fuck yeah i'd be fucking i'll be thinking about it often now i'd be thinking about it first of all i think you're okay now on we'll all be

thinking yeah yeah all of us here as a community not ideal is it someone i just don't think you've got any trauma god it's not ideal it's not ideal it's also okay so the big thing there as well beyond like beyond the obvious big thing of just like what the fuck the idea that someone said because i think this is quite a um this i think is a universal experience in some way that someone has said something to you whether they were drunk or like they just said it in passing yeah nothing was said at the time like you just kind of took it in and it kind of stung and it's like oh that what the fuck and then kind of like a couple months pass and it's like oh i'm still mulling i haven't said it they probably don't even remember a couple years pass i mean they were drunk when they said it i think that

sort of comment come it's quite like venomous and i think they were drunk when they said i think that sort of comment come it's quite like venomous and i think they would have been thinking about for a while and i will think that i do think that would have been a thought that will have occurred to them yes in life and it's built up a bitterness and it came out when they're drunk i don't necessarily think that's a thought that you would have by accident you have no trauma yeah sorry that's clearly a narrative formulated thought for me you have no trauma i never thought that before no no no but that's clearly you've had that going for a while around my character yeah that's how you see me i think they do remember saying it or that they will be conscious of that as a belief

i think if you're willing to bring it up and i totally obviously think i'd want to bring totally but i think you're really in your rights obviously to feel um like you're totally justified to bring it up my advice actual advice would be in that situation to come in very um honest and and if you know you like this person maybe you love this person you care about them you value your relationship with them i would say and this is me so i am kind of like i would be a bit self-deprecating but i do think that just kind of soothes the situation i would come in and be like i'm gonna be so weird and like bring up something that happened ages ago like blah blah blah like there's just there's some i'm gonna be really honest like there's just something that's been bugging me like i don't want this that's the only way to do it really is soft soft soft and like human to human friend to friend there's something that's been bugging me and you might not even

remember it but i just like out of respect for our friendship i have to say it because it's not fair for me to like carry this around when i see you and stuff and i i'm you know bringing it to our friendship and it's just not right it's not fair for either of us let's talk about also i think say the further bit of like i don't think it's fair for you to say that i have no trauma i think that's how i comment considering the fact i became disabled at 15 so even if i didn't your lack of empathy towards my experience of my own life is not my problem and I don't need to be made aware of it. And also... Especially if you're my friend.

You don't need to justify your trauma to anyone. It's not a trauma competition. No, they don't need to compare their trauma to yours. I'm more trauma than you. Huh? I mean, good luck winning that competition, honey. World's worst lottery. It's a disaster.

I'm more traumatized. I mean, it's a traumatizing world. Also, how can you measure these things? Of course you can't. Of course you can't. Basically, the friend, I think the thing about the parents is interesting. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy.

It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. He's so gay. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple.

Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts. Everywhere. ACAST.com Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Yes. Because it was their comment around your, you can't be traumatized because your parents are together. And present. Because that's absurd.

But also, I think that also brings the conversation of like they're they are feeling some kind of resentment towards like they've clearly had some sort of trauma around their parents join the club hello hello hello shout out to us all yes and they feel resentment that your parents are together and they probably have this sort of rose-tinted image of if your parents are together yeah then god your life can't be shit blah blah blah but they're not taking into account like their trauma is not your trauma you're traumatized because you became disabled at 15 like that is obviously hard and i think anyone to deny that is no one could deny that in their right minds to be honest i think it's just it's it's totally a misstep from this person like it's just totally like they fucked up like

they fucked up and like and we can forgive for that exactly like we can move on if we feel like that's how we feel but you are totally in your rights to feel however you feel yeah but i wouldn't say go into that conversation and making it the trauma olympics like really don't definitely you don't need to come and say you don't understand because blah blah i think it's just leave the trauma at the door we're all fucked in this world and i'm not trying to out trauma you no i'm not trying to be oh no you don't understand this you don't understand this there's we will never understand each other's experiences like it is a crazy world out here you know what and we're all fucked for different reasons good example of that that i remember we liked in game of thrones which is when santa and

aria like she's like oh my god she's like you never could have dealt with wide and she's like i guess we like i guess we'll never know sort of thing like they both yeah end up dealing with really horrific things both of them really different experiences like they live yeah kind of opposite lives but they but neither of them could have lived through what the other one did and everyone you know that you know your existence is unique to you and you don't need to explain it and it's okay if you you feel angry and it's not a competition and also i think it's like yeah maybe if you feel like you're in the mood to

forgive or you feel like you can understand where they were coming from because they were hurt and they're not feeling great it's one of those that you know we're all we all say silly things we all think silly things it when we do i guarantee it and we will continue to yeah but just look out for yourself we're sending lots of love definitely i think an affirmation that would be good for you is one that's helped us both that we often say um i come to this day with nothing to prove it's like you come to this conversation nothing to prove no definitely and also i think some empathy on both sides yeah is needed there yeah geez friendships are crazy friendships are crazy friendships are crazy wowza that really took me by surprise right yeah oh this is one that i've got thoughts on and i think you have thoughts on this i know what it is staying friends with your friends ex yep yep yep are you such a tricky

thing to navigate i think okay i think it depends a lot on how that couple broke up but i do think loyalty really does come into question with this sort of thing like i it depends on so much like i think it depends on who hurt who yeah and who oh god it's so political actually but i i do remember like when my parents split up like they had so many friends in common like they were archaeologists together in a big circle of archaeologists so iconic it's so strange i've never known an archaeologist really never in my where would i know an archaeologist well i guess also i have a disproportionate amount of archaeologists that i know because of them but i'm like god you don't know an archaeologist but it's like the only reason i do is because

all their friends are archaeologists um but i met an archaeologist at my writer's course well i i the only way i knew an archaeologist was like through uni oh i don't know any from you no i mean like only because i did history oh yeah of course yeah indiana jones i guess archaeologist famously perhaps the most famous archaeologist i think you might but i suddenly like a lot of them split off and there's a lot of them i just think women are probably i don't know or like my mum is better at keeping in contact with all of these people but um the people that sided with my dad which to be honest was pretty gendered really of like the women went with my mum the men went with my dad but a lot of the men there were some of them that were

absolutely key people in my life and in my childhood and i absolutely loved so much like they were kind of uncles to me and i haven't seen them in years because of this weird split and even though they were just as good friends with my mum and they would literally stay here all the time and they were like that guy which one the one who used to stay around all the time that you told me about and you would poorly yeah i think so you maybe you guys would go into his go into him and like jump up and down on him or something yeah and i watched tv yeah yeah he's like he was iconic um we actually used to play a weird game this is me and my sister his name was paul yeah yeah and we found out that his mum was called

mary and that instantly became my favorite name i used to be obsessed with the name mary everything was called mary like in every game i was called mary and i just loved it and we used to play this game called mary and paul where she would be paul and i'd be mary just kind of like looking after him oh my god we were obsessed with them mary and paul we never met the mom it's so weird as well to imagine like being your mom and paul's kind of like wait what what's what's poppy playing over there and it's like mary and paul she's kind of made up this little game about you oh no it wasn't a little game it was a universe it was huge it was absolutely huge they'd go to like chocolate lands and things like that we'd like put make the whole room look like chocolate was so cool and paul's gone these days paul i haven't seen paul in many years and

it's so sad like there are so many of them as well that it was kind of my dad's job to keep up with them and and he didn't really or he does in a different way but i do think it's like the politics of who sides with who yeah is really strange it is weird isn't it yeah shout out to mary mary's probably mary is probably not with us anymore but shout out she probably wasn't at the time maybe not yeah jesus i don't know jesus mary and joseph i know um but honestly every single toy i had was called mary every tamagotchi mary everything mary mary mary i loved that name so much oh it's so good because everyone in games it would be like so what what do you want to be called mary yeah fair enough so why it's so funny how those attachments kind of happen as a kid it's like you you learn about something and within literally a millisecond it's like this is the best thing i've ever heard in my life that's the most beautiful game i've ever heard you can't argue with that you can't argue

with mary it's like whoa like but also it's so funny because my connotations weren't like like but also it's so funny because my connotations weren't like mary the virgin yeah the virgin mother mary it wasn't that it was this man's mum it was an actual mother mary who i never met never seen a photo never even didn't didn't know existed good um but yeah anyway that was a bit off the no that's i think that's perfect because it is i remember like oh it's fucking hard as well like if you have a horrible breakup with somebody and then you lose half your friends as well it's like jeez yeah thanks for that guys thanks for that one cheers for that yeah that was really nice of you and now i have to see you hanging out with the guy that i do think it is weird energy though like for example i mean obviously there's so much more context i can't get into every possible

nuanced um specific under the sun like i can't go through every hypothetical but generally the idea of like your your friend knows your boyfriend or whatever and then once you break up they kind of keep seeing your boyfriend or your ex-boyfriend now a hard pill is fucking weird it's like why don't you just fucking sit me down and have sex with him right in front of me then you absolute psycho yeah like what's wrong with you like how dare you go on then if you're so fucking big and clever go on take him i dare you take him do it i think it would require a conversation i think there's something a little bit fucked about if they do that without sort of factoring you in i think if there's a conversation that's been had

of like we were all friends together and then you guys got together and then you broke up and shit we're all still in the friendship group and now it's confusing i do think there is a loyalty to be had with the one that you're closer with or whatever where you're gonna say are you okay with me inviting thingy to this party are you okay with yes obviously my priority is you being comfortable honesty does so much and decide it together i think the assumption that oh well they they broke up and they're just gonna have to get over it we're friends with them both i think that's pretty fucked up actually and pretty naive it's really that's the thing i don't like and we've spoken about this before but almost like that i would love to come up with like a really clean phrase for it because it's kind of

like the presumed oh it's kind of like the blissful ignorance so it's like very like um willfully ignorant of certain truths and it's kind of the thing blissful ignorance so it's like very like um willfully ignorant of certain truths and it's kind of the thing that we were saying when someone said that you were like sophia grace and i was like theresa may or whatever do you remember when we had that conversation it's like people it's like you're saying something and kind of there's so much subtext in that but you're saying it with the under with the kind of overtone of like totally you can't be annoyed at that right like that's not an offensive thing to say right it's a joke yeah that's not that's normal like what how is that how is that wrong how is that bad what oh you don't you don't mind

if i'm seeing him do you don't mind if i obviously your ex is going to be there but obviously you know we were friends so like it's fine we were all friends it's i hate that like it's like fake oh fuck off like ah i hate that so much it's like just fucking say it fucking you know what you're doing you little weasel bag say it say it so annoying because also it does depend who has hurt who but i do also think there is some responsibility let's make it that the boys hurt the girl just for fun yeah why not because we don't see that because you know what just for us we'll make it yeah go on that the boys hurt yeah there's a you're all friends together blah blah blah and you're all invited to a party i do think it's the boy's responsibility the one who hurt the person to not attend that party and

actually give the grace to the person and the space actually just to be like i know rather than it's like well we won't both won't go or um well why can't i go they're my friends too it's like no you know what you've done here i think you now have to allow the person that's been hurt i think if you enjoy them if you have apologized if you have apologized and you feel sorry and you want to make something right and there is an obvious way that you could make an effort to make amends or make something right or um serve your have justice be served unto you by for example bestowed yeah but have it bestowed upon you by not going to a party for example but you can't bring yourself to do it because you're not fucking

sorry you've fucked up and you don't want to take any fucking ramification for it you don't want to deal with the consequences of your own actions you can't so it's all well and good being like and they probably haven't even apologized in this hypothetical scenario that we've made up i don't i let's not like him to apologize no it's just not it's just not in his nature to apologize but if he has well just the idea that people people love to like say all this shit but it's like okay prove it then when it comes down to it yeah what you not do anything different what you go and take what you can get from that situation and not fuck yourself over in any way because you you don't want to inconvenience yourself fuck you fuck you actually and fuck your friends yeah

fuck everyone involved inviting your ex-boyfriend to the dinner party it really is as well boot liquor energy i think for example in that bootlicker it really is energy to for example in this in a situation where a boy has done something wrong to a girl god forbid that girl is your friend and you for why tell me why you are so willing to let things slide with this boy why are you so fucking desperate to have this boy in your life it's embarrassing it's embarrassing loser loser weirdo why are you so desperate to have this boy in your life it's embarrassing it's embarrassing loser loser weirdo why are you so desperate to have this boy in your life he's a fucking piece of shit but you're so desperate desperate to let it slide oh it's okay that he did that oh it's that doesn't whatever blah blah

oh he can just you know whatever it's what he's a nice boy he's a nice boy tell me if it was a fucking girl would you judge her in the same manner absolutely not would you be as forgiving absolutely freaking not motherfucker i think that is is a really good metric right it's fuming fumigating but it is a good metric to judge your guy friends on i think if because they do act in scandalous ways sometimes they push the boundaries these boys they do and i do think it's a good question to ask if if this was a group of gals and we were all out and um fucking sarah there she just did that would you would sarah leave and then you went you'd go i can handle sarah anymore like that was just a bit out of order but because it's a guy we go oh god silly him i really liked his jumper shut the fuck up it was just classic it's like a bit annoying

weather but it's like no let's hold him to the standard which we'd hold we could never we could never which we hold each other to because we expect for some reason perfection from great length let's just hold everyone to the same standard actually if anything let's lower the standard for the girls and let's hire the standards to the sky and we'll meet somewhere in the middle there oh jesus i don't know i think it can be really hard i think it's very confronting when people feel like their friends have betrayed them in that way and i think it's not something that's very validated like i think you are invalidated in that moment as if you're not allowed to be upset or hurt or annoyed that your friend has prioritized your ex over you and sephine winger here to say you very much are in your

rights to feel probably however you're feeling right now yeah you're not feeling it for nothing and that's not to say someone else's to blame but just in life if you're feeling something you're allowed to feel that way oh 100 i think if you find yourself in the position of you're somebody two of your friends have just broken up and you're um in the situation of choosing i think speak to both of them or the one that you feel the loyalty with the one that was fucked over all of the stuff and actually think objectively about like who is the victim in this situation and what choices you want to make and if you're the person that is feeling betrayed by your friends i think you have to speak to them and just say i really just don't understand your decisions and i would never do that to you i would never do that to you it's so cutting it's such a good one or just if you wouldn't or like i don't think i would do that to you and i feel

really hurt that you would do that iconic what a line what a line drop the mic that's the truth being able to deliver a line like that is a powerful that's one for the shower but you never can in the moment you can sometimes in the moment if you've been prepping which i lord knows i have no the more i prep the more nightmarish it is really i need to say every single thing i say on this planet off the cuff i cannot say anything so true i i get that and you can tell that from the intros of this podcast because sometimes i'll say i'll literally give a tiny note i'll say try and mention that one great thing that we said she's like well you know you can't like you know don't go like i say i can't promise what will come out it's just saying like oh can you just mention the word boundaries i was like well who knows

what i say so just say the one word boundaries like i just can't promise that right that was really nice that was nice i enjoyed that thank you yeah i really thank you everyone involved thank you so much to everyone for listening to this crazy little thing that goes about saying bestowed a true honor to us today you did bestow true honor um love you and if you don't hear from us assume the worst stunning well done if you don't hear from us assume the worst stunning well done