Goes Without Saying - how to be authentic: ur trust issues are showing

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

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And I really, you guessed it, I love this episode. I really do think this is a really nice one. I think we come in with some hot takes we have like a real genuine conversation and there's some like real frankness and sincerity and vulnerability but there's also just like a bit of a joke about like bacon we were just talking about and just god knows what comes up so enjoy i think this is a good one if you you know you've been a bit self-reflecting, I think if you're feeling a little bit like, a little bit lonely maybe, a little bit kind of isolated and you've been in your head a little bit, I think this might be quite nice to just bring you back, bring you a bit of love and laughter, live, laugh, love. Enjoy. Woohoo. Hey.

Hey, how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good'm good nothing new you look extra ravishing right now ravishing really in what way you look absolutely delightful your hair's looking almost quite honey oh wow i just i didn't realize you were leading straight into this i thought it was a genuine compliment no of course it's turns out it's an advert turns out we're being sponsored by look fantastic i really did not see that coming but we do have a code but you do genuinely look amazing as usual thank you so much the honey is also all washed out by this point but i can go and talk about it

yeah go on i used our discount code that we have from look fantastic which is sephie and wing l i actually used it to buy used your own i used our own code it was quite an iconic moment supporting us i really appreciate that i was searching and searching for the bleach london just like honey i think it's called because my hair i think is too peroxide white at the moment i wanted a honey tone we know she's flipping the vibes we're going from narcissus malfoy to kind of um who's the vision kind of Mary-Kate and Ashley Pamela Anderson let's say oh still quite white there yeah yeah still quite blonde yeah um just a bit of warmth for the summer would be good so stunning I was searching searching

searching around for this dye they don't have it anywhere it's like a wash in wash out sort of one couldn't find it anywhere trying to get a good deal they all seem to be shipping prices everywhere right found one on look fantastic I thought fuck it we actually have a fucking code fuck it fantastic use our own code and i thought god i forgot that we're so cool that is a girl and got a great great deal on that honey hair good i'm honestly i'm i'm genuinely i'm happy to hear about this like it actually made me just really happy that we get to do that it's fun so if any of you are out there looking for new things or you just want to buy yourself something which i would 100 recommend buying yourself something um just you

know get us through the day get us through life yeah use our code seven wing out f that is so exciting not being paid to say that just genuinely you may as well get a discount right yeah no literally very much not getting paid you might as well get some fucking shit for a discounted price you may as well yeah it's on us don't worry about it it's a bit on us discount on us um well how are you apart from that um literally nothing new i've just been on holiday i've been holiday after holiday this year so far i've been on holiday every month so far this year that's crazy which is insane god one of them was with you went to amsterdam yeah i know jesus yeah like honestly my life since moving out of london has improved tenfold like you've barely seen england i've barely been in england thank god that's fun like thank god thank god like i've

just been all over the place which i'm loving just come back from spain i think two three days ago which was amazing had the most amazing time divine and yeah this is what we want for you you've been in france i have i've been also out of touch join me in the out of touch so out of touch i mean it's all i could wish for i deserve a bit of out of touch as do you as do we all we're too in touch i apologize yeah honestly it's been killing me how in touch i've been my whole life in touch honestly painfully in touch so the vibe at the moment is let's try and get a little bit out of touch and then i'll come back down to reality i'm sure but like you can have a week off yeah don't try and tell me that you don't want to be a little bit out of touch 100 what did you get up to in france i haven't really spoken to you

about france yeah i haven't oh it was just honestly you know when something is just perfect and you're just yeah just actually like feeling human happiness so nice it's so good oh my god happiest place on earth so i've heard famously yeah i've really had the best time what did you eat there a lot of nutella which i realized in the last episode i was talking about nutella and we just started speaking about it this morning but nutella is meaning quite a lot to me at the moment do you know i couldn't agree more yeah not agree more i'm hopefully coming to yours tomorrow and i'm thinking yeah nutella time maybe let's do some nutella let's get a big jar and two spoons got any plans um just some nutella really i would love that you said something about banana nutella thing near your house at wall fox they do in

brighton they do sometimes a croissant that is filled with like nutella and banana it's like a panacicola but with banana in it i literally need it so good like almost you know that when sometimes sometimes you get a croissant it's like soft and a bit just like not flappy but just like just a bit soft and that's there's a time and a place for that do you know what i mean there's a time and a place for like a real just cheap whatever you could oh there's a sounding not i'm not gonna say no yeah even a bad croissant how bad can it be it's a croissant yeah even the bad croissants are still better than you know not a croissant exactly exactly better than toast it's kind of um when you were talking about me taylor swift me and i never found love like me it's like even taylor swift and i would never be as bold as to say it's her worst song but even her worst song is definitely one of the worst 99 of the other songs in the world yeah um but you

know when a croissant is really like flappy and like nothing even when a croissant is really like flappy and soft it's still good but these croissants you know when a croissant is like kind of crisp and it has like a layer of like glaze like sugar like i know it well it almost looks wet it's like got like a little wet look a little blue going on it's has like a layer of like glaze like sugar like i know it well it almost looks wet it's like got like a little wet look a little blue going on it's got like a wet look to it it's just really good um so yeah what are we talking about today i think we're talking about trust yeah often i tell it we're talking about trust and betrayal and vulnerabilities oversharing yeah i'm loving it me too i'm yeah i am too what are your thoughts on this because i wrote a little

note earlier i should actually read out exactly what i wrote yeah yeah i wrote like almost a little blurb about what the episode might be which i love when you do this by the way yeah i wasn't planning on sharing it but here we are i guess just off the record between between me and you this was the intention behind the episode i put trust vulnerability and oversharing so let us know if that is the actual title or if we came to something else boundaries balance people are shit and they will betray you but also that is life haha is personal information a currency to trade for connection so do we use our personal information yeah i thought that was interesting i thought i'd kind of i thought i did something there not gonna lie you did you did i

was eating my beans on toast this morning reading that like wow okay yeah just bringing out the hard hitters jesus okay let me gear up i do sometimes feel like especially with the podcast as well it's easy to feel like sometimes we share things that are quite personal and we try and be authentic and genuine and sincere and all of these things and we really do like i'm i don't come here with the intention of lying i would say it's generally quite a well-meaning space and every time we share something really personal the most amazing thing happens where everyone comes back and unfortunately has experienced something similar if it's something horrible it's like oh god me too it's like wow so we're all fucked thought it was just me um and you get

real sincere connection from that but also what is the price you pay from sharing your kind of deepest warrest most vulnerable inner soul ugly shit what's the price you pay for that and not just on podcasts but like in life i know a lot of people feel like even when they first meet people kind of to try and connect with them they like throw out all these like childhood trauma stories i'm like oh god i'm so kooky creator like you know just give something really real which is so valuable but also you can shoot yourself in the foot it's a dangerous thing to give yourself i think yeah yeah yourself is a dangerous thing to give away it really is you're very precious and sacred and and as i wrote in the thing people are shit

undeniably yeah people people have like motives insecurities jealousies they have shit they've got anger they've got all the human stuff and they are liable to use it at will like they will use that yeah so it's hard then to not become a bit of a i don't want to say like a private person because i'm not taking this word but like it's hard to not get caught up in that I think I think there are kind of different ways that you can go down which is kind of you end up oversharing and like giving a lot because you're trying really hard to connect with people or you become really like protective secretive and kind of um like isolated and you bury your feelings because you don't trust people like you don't trust to share with people and that's something me and you have had that conversation time and time again

where you'll be like if you're feeling bad tell me tell me how you feel and it's not something that comes naturally because i spent my whole life learning that personal information isn't information i should give away even if it's to people that i care about and i know care about me because it's risky so it's not even like a conscious thing like i don't even realize that i'm withholding stuff yeah you don't even realize that your own personal stuff is like a burden shameful and has to be private when yeah actually a lot of the stuff doesn't need to be like if it's helpful to share it then you should yeah yeah and that it kind of is as simple as that i definitely think two people that you trust

definitely and i think as well like for example with sephia i'm doing you a disservice because you're i'm so lucky there is a bit of drilling going on but i think we'll be all right sorry guys it's fine it's not me doing the drilling i'm sorry suddenly i'm standing here with the drill sorry um but i'm doing myself and you a disservice by not allowing you to like show me how good of a friend you are by trusting you with my shit no but like almost i do mind though because i think it's almost like let people we don't do ourselves any favors by not allowing the people in our lives to show us how good they can be that sort of thing and also i think i've spoken before and i'm sure lots of people feel similar i not to out them i don't want to like dox my parents i love my parents so much they're fucking mental i love them both and i really

watched them be unhappy in loads of ways and not acknowledge it and not do anything about it and definitely not talk about it I watched them kind of not talk to each other for a long time before they got divorced so I definitely learned from an early age that if you have feelings bury them yeah if there's something going wrong in your life just just carry on just get on with it and if you're feeling a certain way about something definitely don't tell people um the worst lessons to learn exactly yeah exactly um so i'm at the moment trying and i think i'm getting loads better oh a hundred percent so much better also like no one um you don't owe the world any of these

private things like you just don't it's only if it makes things easier for you like i think that's the key thing to remember that it's not like oh you have to now share your insides with your closest friends it's like if that doesn't come naturally to you then it doesn't come naturally to you big fucking deal like that's fine but if you feel that you're keeping those in for like shame reasons or like i don't want to burden anyone with these things then maybe it's like time to time to open up because it's really no one views them as burdens or shameful things no no and yeah it it just makes things it can make things a lot harder i think long term when you have so much shame wrapped around or like you're teaching yourself not only that you're ashamed of the way that you feel but like you don't prioritize your

feelings enough to consider them valid enough to talk to the people closest to you your deepest insides are like secrets which is quite bizarre isn't it that's really like that's a brutal way to be with yourself is to be telling yourself that the way you feel isn't important that's really like that's a brutal way to be with yourself is to be telling yourself that the way you feel isn't important that's not nice i don't i don't i don't want to be aligned with that and it's pointless as well because it just it distances you from people and it kind of distances you from yourself as well you're just kind of in this weird feeling shit haven't quite articulated it yet. Because I feel like so much of like the workings out go on in conversations.

Like, oh, I feel like this. And then someone gives their experience and it's like, oh, okay, that might relate to this. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I think that's why podcasts and things like this are useful. Because hearing people talk about their experiences often helps me frame my experiences through them. about their experiences often helped me frame my experiences through them yeah like i think yeah the conversations and listening to people talk about their stuff actually is part of the necessary um like workings out of how you actually deeply feel so to withhold that from yourself is just like an injustice i agree i really agree then on the other side pause my my airpods have died okay go get the headset i need to get my actual headphones on and plug them in because i know they're dead as well

god i'm prepared it's because we've been talking for a long time i know i've been blabbering blabbering no no not at all but i defo No, but I have too. We've just been chatterboxes. Well, you can't blame us. We talk for a living, hey? We talk for a living. Right, one sec. Shall I pause this? No, no.

I've got a question for you as well. Not for the podcast, but just I would love to know what you think about this Wizards of Waverley Place podcast that I'm seeing. Oh, hang on. Hang on a minute. All I heard was Wizards of Waverley Place,

but I'm coming back best things to hear nothing hooks you like that oh we might have to wait for these to charge that's fine we can do that let's wait

let's just pause and wait and I'll talk to you about Wizards of Waverly Place yeah go on ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois.

Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about

queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts

everywhere. Acast.com Sorry we just had a little bit of a break when we were talking about this but it doesn't matter. There's nothing of interest No, no, just private information just private thoughts and feelings instead of kind of keeping all of your feelings and personal information in you kind of explode outward and like kind of as i said in that little synopsis in that really like predicting the future synopsis you kind of throw it out there and use it

as like a means of connection which is i think sometimes valid but also can be a little bit risque a hundred percent like because also this is the key of being like do you trust the people because if you don't trust the people then you're sharing with anyone and we know that they will use well often haven't we all seen it if you share private information people store it yeah and that's when it's really jarring when you think that you you think that you trust someone you share information with them and then kind of you can tell that they've stored it for a rainy day until you're most vulnerable and then they're gonna bring out that information out bring out the big guns with your kind of trauma that you

shared ages ago and it's like oh i didn't realize you were like hanging on to that but i do think with a situation like that it's hard then to not put like the ownership of like the responsibility it's hard not to feel like you know you're to blame for that but i think somebody else misusing your information that you've trusted them with someone else breaking your trust is not your fault and there's not necessarily a way to prevent that if you're gonna be in like real loving relationships there's not really much you can do to stop other people from being dicks not at all also like it's not just breaking your trust it's breaking kind of like human etiquette like it's

like that's not the done the highway code unfortunately it kind of it is the done thing which is the fucked up bit it's crazy it really is the done thing well i've seen it done it's been done have i seen it done but i've also seen it done for people to do it properly where it's like i give you something and you deal with it with like empathy and all of that stuff and like and like respect which is really all you're asking for someone like when you share you've been through a bad thing and you share that thing with someone really the only thing you're asking for is like someone to listen and like deal with it with like empathy really and like and like you're looking for some love i think yeah and like treat that with a level of like yeah care that it's like okay i'm not gonna

go share that around now like yeah it doesn't mean that it has to be a secret i'm not asking for my personal things to be like secrets that you need to keep to your grave like unless it is a big fucking secret but i don't really have any secrets but like i just think like treat it with like some respect spreading it i don't want to hear it from someone else the next day like what the hell is that definitely i was thinking actually in the last episode i think i we were talking about um like are there red flags in friendships like is there something that like would be kind of the deal breaker of like i don't actually you've pushed me a bit too far now and i don't really want to be friends with you yeah and actually i would love to know from your perspective if your trust has been broken in that way or like you've shared some sort of personal information or kind of if i betrayed your trust what would

that do to us like it really is i almost think we don't give it enough like air time in life how how hard deeply damaging yeah like real betrayal is because you can really really you can change the way someone's actual like brain biology works like if you catch that at the right moment like at the right age like a really formative time or something really something really significant to someone you can actually really fuck them up oh 100 and i'm sure we all feel quite fucked up by like varying things yeah no i think it's really deep like i i don't know i can't i'm struggling to think of like a way i've been betrayed in my life or like someone doing that to me but like there have been a hundred things i feel like small ways at

school where like you tell someone like a shitty rumor and and then like it goes around like all those stupid things that go around at school but like i'm struggling to think of like a really deep um betrayal but betrayal is well it's coming no i'm joking oh my god we'll get ready for it then but i definitely think like, if there was just something to come in between us, for example, in terms of like a betrayal, it would really hurt

because I think like we don't really acknowledge how much like trust is a part of this. We'd be like, our sense of humour is a big part of this. Like our love for each other is a huge thing, but I don't think we would really necessarily be like, and there's a huge level of like um like loyalty and trust of course there is but i think we say i think we the way well the way i personally articulate it is very much like i see us as a

team and like a unit and i'm not about to be scoring own goals so that i can fuck my teammate over do you know what i mean like so yeah and i think not just because we share a podcast but just i think any relationship that i have with people close to me i do feel like the loyalty is very important like a shared understanding of like having someone else's back and protecting them even when they're not around i think that's a big one how do you speak about them when they're not there yeah i think that's a really big one like i think we've all been in a room before where someone tries to shit on someone that you feel like you're in a team with whether that be like family member friend like romantic partner whatever like that they're on your like inner team and then often someone

else from your inner team comes in and like says something and it's like how do you speak about that person i think is like a huge yeah yeah i think that's a huge thing like i would really expect from like my close people that if my name was dragged through the mud i don't know what's going on uh no absolutely i'm right there in the trenches with you dragging out of the mud like i want it to be 100 my bare hands please on your dirty fingernails and knees and knees going through that mud absolutely well it kind of made me laugh because when i was editing the previous episode i was listening to our story i keep talking about it but i do think it's a really good episode it was just a casual off the record so if you need something after you finish this one to like get you through the rest of your commute or whatever you're up to it's there waiting when i listen as i have all the old episodes but don't

go too far back because that is so out of order when i did listen to the episode last last week's episode i listened to it yesterday um i did think i was talking so much shit so i do apologize oh really it was one of those things where i was like oh i was like shut up like sometimes i get well i cut a lot of it so um it must have been really bad no it was thank you for cutting no never please continue to cut with a brutal knife um but i was making myself laugh when i was listening back because there was a bit where you were talking about meeting people who are being mean to you and i could hear i could hear the outrage in my voice and i was kind of feeling the anger again of like who the fuck yeah i almost felt a bit of that like sibling protectiveness of like i can kind of tease you and like be a bit kind of goofy yeah how dare you

even think for a second motherfucker that you can come and say a single peep about her absolutely not exactly also i'd forgotten about that like that was now because we've been recording quite a lot in a day like so that was like a month ago that we were speaking about so i had completely forgotten um that interaction and then when i was listening to the episode which i don't usually do but right now i'm in a bit of a habit of because we're pre-recording them i forget what we're saying to listen to i'm like jesus need some good content like lexi is my only other podcast to listen to she hasn't posted in a while let's let's listen to my own um yeah no and i was like god i completely forgot that that had happened i was like yeah those fucking fucking bitches like how dare you roll your eyes at me

when i speak when i introduced my name they said i came to a group i said my name and they literally looked each other side eye and i thought that was crazy actually but i was listening i could hear in your voice that you outraged and i was like yeah you know what she's so right to be outraged because it's fucking outrageous yeah it's also that's the sort of thing that's like i do think it's important to feel that outrage about people that you know kind of being even that level of like mildly wronged it's like such a mild wrong yeah it's just like ew um and also i think it's really important to me that like when my people aren't there and then if someone was to roll their eyes or like like i've been in groups

before i remember there was one that i really hated where it was like this group of like people that i didn't really know and we all had like a mutual friend and that mutual friend was being discussed and i really made it like awkward because it was like a nice day in the summer at a park like everyone was drinking blah blah and i it was like in a circle sort of thing like a lot of these people i didn't know and i made it like really awkward actually but like i really couldn't who was it well you're gonna have to cut yeah people were talking um and they literally that has to be cut yeah yeah of course of course that whole thing is getting cut of course no no but almost like just in case you miss it i'm saying yeah no no it's getting cut yeah 100 um and people it was like it was just like

this person is so sweet and all of a sudden it was just like sorry i'm actually gonna need to like actually make everyone uncomfortable right now by just saying like i don't think we're any of us are in a position to judge this person and yeah i'm not comfortable with this person person being dragged through the mud like i'm just not comfortable with that take us to the trenches out of the mud right now yeah it's out of order who are we to sit in a circle on a summer's day and talk about this person we're nobody it's our entertainment it's our bread and butter i can't no i can't i can't slagging off women it's so fucked up um it's something actually i've been thinking recently and i think i've said it before in in this very format i've

said it on the podcast i'm sure i have about like i feel really like just like fragile like soft and gentle and just like oh don't look at me don't talk to me like oh god i just you know guys let's all just be happy and kind of like let's all bake a cake that kind of vibe delicious i would i mean it's nothing i'd love more nutella and banana cake nutella and banana let's bring that back yeah yeah um and so i've always and i and i do feel quite sensitive and i do feel are you seeing me yeah sorry i just had to tap the microphone because i just suddenly thought yeah my headphones working like what's going on um but you're all delayed like i can't see you god still yeah yeah it's a nightmare that's really

annoying you're delayed i don't know what's going on classic technology i mean i do feel delayed as a person well you i'm getting you about two minutes late but well like i'm getting your audio so i'm just listening but your image is all over the place that's annoying it's fine um it kind of makes sense that my kind of my image is kind of all over the place that's annoying it's fine um it kind of makes sense that my kind my image is kind of all over the place so it does kind of work um yeah i feel like a very sensitive person and i feel very aware that like i've spent a lot of my life being really kind of um worried about how other people feel and like worried about like how things are coming across for other people and stuff so yeah and something that actually i always just

kind of thought maybe i'm just a bit sensitive or like oh i guess i'm just like a bit nice and whatever not true i'm not nice well i am but you are i think more more to the point and i was having this conversation really briefly with the star rachel my queen therapist who i haven't spoken to in a couple of weeks so if i'm seeming a bit mental that's why how come she has one day of something again withdrawal she was on hauls i was on like it's just it's been a whole thing i can't stand it when a therapist goes on annual leave how dare you have a life also because i don't really know what annual leave is it's like don't go on it please how long sounds like it's a year don't go there don't go on it i don't know what these words are annual and leaving don't do it and a day in lieu please no a day in the loo she's got diarrhea that's really fucked oh she's not gonna want to come back to me after that

um but she was we were having this conversation and i'm sure people have had this conversation before in life i'm not saying anything like new it's not a hot take but the idea about rules for living based off of like the our core beliefs that we make about the world and like the reality that we live in so my core belief might be people are judgmental i need to keep other people happy so that they like me if people don't like me i'll be unloved and i'll be abandoned and i'll be unsafe and all of these sorts of things so i've kind of got this preoccupation with like having an awareness or a hyper fixation even on other people's feelings and just trying to be quiet and nice and liked and safe

and so when i always just thought okay i'm just like a bit sensitive and i and i really um kind of kindness is a priority to me that might be true but also it might also be kind of pointing us in the direction of i have a rule for living which is be nice to people because you need them to like you and it's important to be nice and aware of other people's feelings so when other people don't follow my rule for living i take it extra personal because i'm seeing it as well i'm hyper fixated on everyone else's feelings so why does no one seem to give a shit about my feelings and it makes kind of humans are just a bit shit sometimes humans are just a bit mean sometimes and it makes that kind of ugliness in human nature

the brutality often that comes with it it makes it feel really personal and really hard to deal with yeah when it's more so just about the way that i've brought myself up to be just a bit of a people pleasing well it's not the way you've brought yourself up it's just the trauma that you the things you've learned yeah yeah i've actually been having that conversation with someone else recently yeah i've actually been having this conversation with like someone else in my life that has kind of a preoccupation with like being seen specifically by friends as like a good person and she was listening to a book an audiobook she was listening to who by another podcaster elizabeth day by her and i think it's called friendaholic the book and i think it's kind of about people pleasing sort of vibes but it kind of gave me

the same i haven't listened to i don't know what the what the vibe is but she was talking to me about it and she was saying like i often even if someone has been a dick to me will message them like nice things like hope you're okay hope you're okay blah blah just because i almost want the proof that i have like continued to be nice to them yeah like i'm a nice i'm the bigger person yeah and we were talking about like almost having like this portfolio of like goodness that it's like i'm a good person because i came to your birthday even though you did this like i's like i'm a good person because i came to your birthday even though you did this like i'm a i'm a nice person because i asked you how i asked you 10 questions when you'd ask me none and it's like actually you're just doing yourself a disservice

because you're just being nice to people that are actually proving time and time again that they don't give a shit about you like i do think it's actually quite a powerful thing to be like of course kindness is such an important thing it's actually quite a powerful thing to be like of course kindness is such an important thing it's actually probably my number one thing that i think you should try and be in life kind yeah i think it's number one good thing to be kind but i also think if you look at the motivations for kindness a lot it is just coming from like often a low self of low self sense of low self-esteem that it's like i need to be seen as kind because then i am like good and worthy and moral and all of the stuff i think that's really common

with women as well to be made to feel like you have to be quiet you have to be kind of the fixer you have to be the caretaker kind of mother maiden crone as they say famously but also i think what's even worse than like your kindness coming from insecurity is kind of kindness coming from something that's like very self-serving so it's like yeah you're texting someone nice things even when you know maybe your relationship isn't even in a good isn't necessarily in a good place but you're texting them nice things maybe maybe to make them feel bad, maybe to kind of manipulate the narrative of like, here I am being, here I am always the good person. And how much of that is actually from a genuine place of saying, hey, how are you doing?

Thinking of you, hope you're doing well sort of thing. And how much of that is the desire to be perceived as nice, kind, the bigger person, better, and kind of highlight their wrongdoings and by emphasizing your own goodness yeah and prove to yourself like look what i can stand through like look what i i'm still here like i'm still being the good person i've still got the moral high ground but it's just like actually high ground that is kind of it it's like i'll be the bigger person and it's like yeah who to like what what are you being a martyr for right now because you're just shooting yourself in the foot for no reason

and also it's like to which audience like no one is seeing this other than the other person like you're only really trying to prove it to yourself because you clearly deep down don't think that you are a good person or think that you are petty or whatever the thing is you're trying to prove that you're not it's like actually just some people are not worth the people pleasing thing also i don't think i get the people like obviously everyone's a people pleaser in so many ways but yeah that's why i like you so much thank you but i don't think i have the need for everyone to like me i just don't think that that is possible like i don't think i have the need for everyone to like me i just don't think that that is possible like i don't think obviously no one i think i have got a real sense of like not everyone is gonna like everyone like that's fine but it doesn't mean that you have like almost look i

hate to overstep you and just tell you about yourself but no it's actually useful because i just don't know who the fuck i am well let me tell you you seem to have a great idea yeah i do i really do you not only do you have it down that like look not everyone's gonna get along whatever blah blah blah that's the way the world works etc i think you are really good kind of the unshakable sense of self thing of if someone dislikes you that doesn't inherently have value like for someone or there have been moments in my life where i can see how confused you look right now even just at the prospect of that but definitely there have been moments in my life and like to be honest it's still a big part of who i am is that anyone having a negative opinion of me must inherently carry some value like i immediately trust them over me i trust that that negative information that must that

must be right i just god no yeah i crumbled to that yeah unfortunately yes because also the people that don't like you i mean you're a nice person you're a good person i i couldn't really imagine anyone being like i just don't like her like that's just almost like well fuck off it's happened yeah well who though this is my point let's have a let's have a look well this is what i think you're really good at is being quite firm in you know someone saying something negative about you or someone having a negative opinion or criticizing you in some way doesn't inherently hold value i think you examine why they might be saying that who they are what's their relationship to you do you have criticism towards them like would you admire them do you

dislike them do you distrust them do you like all of these things you're much more considered when you're taking criticism whereas i'm also just the sense that like but like the sense that they've seen not they've seen not even one percent of you 100 like yeah even if you have spent a month with someone an entire month with someone you they have only known i don't know how many months there are in a 26 year life yeah that's beyond my capabilities yeah i reckon it's less than we would but what percent is that like what percent of your life is that it's like they literally don't know shit about you i'm sure after a month of someone's well they might know your current habits and all of this stuff but it's like really like they can't

judge your history or any of these like they don't really know who you were like who you are to your core you can spend your life with someone they don't know who you are to your core i see it all i think that's i think that's one of the biggest ways that we balance each other out or it's one of the biggest things i think that i look to you for and i really admire it in you and i really try and learn from you in this way and i think a lot of people listening will probably feel the same way that they get this from you that you don't give permission to just anyone to tell you about yourself even when you have low moments and you lack confidence in certain things and you have your human like existence of being insecure some days or whatever

you don't just hand out permission to just any old tom dick and harry to tell you about yourself and it's really i think powerful as a young woman and it's amazing to witness thank you so much that is literally so fucking nice i just feel like was i saying that for real or was it just a self-serving act of kindness leading into an advert on look fantastic no you do genuinely mascara self-confidence lipstick but it's true it's really true it's really really true that's really like that is just really nice i just feel like you give the best compliments because they're just so um oh thanks they're so like oh it's just bread for the table isn't it the old it is it's a little bit compliments the chef yeah for a start i'll let you know that you have something really special going on and you're unshakable confidence that's so nice i

just think that comes a lot down to the patriarchy though if i'm gonna then drag it to hell because it's like really what it is is that like okay so what you're saying is that there's an idea that i won't let any tom dick and harry tell me who i am that really shouldn't be a rare trait because i also look at a lot of men in my life and they all seem to possess that trait why on earth is that something that we would be easily giving away that someone would be able to tell women who they are yeah cool or that we would be so willing to just like accept someone else's version of who we are i actually think it comes a lot down to just like our um indoctrination from an early age of like find who you are in just like what anyone will tell you like oh it's just weird because also like i think i do do that in so many ways but yeah no the the

casual opinions a casual opinion of someone on me is not probably gonna hit no you're you're because i don't know that person i just like i just think you don't know them they don't know you like in a in a very real way they don't know you in one of the it might be one of the only ways that you in our duo you are the more rational one because i think a lot of the time i come in with a really slow like no because look at this like blah blah blah like no no and in that case you're the one who's coming in being like no because look at this do you know what i mean yeah yeah no i do know exactly what you mean just a mental fucking combination of people really but i think it is hard on any level and i know everyone has felt this in life

no matter if you're more of a seffy or more of a wing that if you share something and feel like you're bringing something really vulnerable and honest it is really cutting when it's oh my god it's horrendous not received well and i think it's just the the emphasis there i think is knowing that that isn't a flaw of your own that you've done something wrong or done something to deserve that look it's like you you're like this obvious outrageous you're outraged but like also that is gonna sting it's undeniably gonna sting if you bring i would i would 100 be upset by that if i bring someone a real part of my soul and it's met with a side eye or a laugh like that's like we're doing that every day i think that's as well why my rule for living kind of hurts a little bit oh i love your rule for living it's stunning what my rule for

living everyone has to like me let's all be nice no that's what i think i love the concept i've never had a rule for living well it's everything yeah it's stunning but i think it's almost like if you're if you're coming to every day which i think this is something we try and do is it's one thing to like share and you know oh i've told that guy a story about my childhood and now i've heard that his new girlfriend knows about my shit or something god that would really hurt that was just off the top of my head you see what a sicko i am i can just pull out probably because you know about 10 people that's happened to you yeah it's so disgusting but like it's not even in that situation but as you were just saying about coming to something with you

know being something giving something real being vulnerable all of those things i think a lot of us i think quite consciously we try and bring that energy not just to any specific conversation but we try and bring it every day like every podcast we're coming in trying to be real like when i go to the supermarket i'm i'm trying to be real like i'm not trying to lie i'm trying to give my truest self i know that sounds really wanky but it's true so then when any old tom dick and harry comes in and says well i don't like your truer self yeah it's horrible that is horrible that is horrible but like tom i don't like you dick i don't like you i'm certainly not a big fan of you no no we don't we don't yeah oh god my pins i've just suddenly got the worst my pins oh my god your legs my pins my pins you know when it goes like beyond pins and needles

and it's like no longer just like stinging fuzzy your whole leg is yeah oh my god i actually have to stand up sorry i think i'll fall over if i stand i always remember that happened in assembly in like year five or six oh sorry i can't hear a word you're saying in assembly in like year five or six um or maybe a bit younger so i was between the ages of like eight nine ten that sort of thing and one of my best friends at the time she we were all like leaving assembly which by the way if you don't know assembly is like where they bring all the kids we used to have it in the morning i think first thing in the morning we would come in like a little prayer or something we didn't do a prayer but we would just sing about like we are the children of x y and z school we take pride in

things we do that one we would do like we are the children of god well they never would have there was so it was actually like they just there was no they couldn't yeah we were doing a lot of different religions which was really i think good now that i'm confronted with other people who've never known about any other walk of life we were just like you're either christian or nothing that's crazy but yeah assembly is where they bring all the kids in they line them up and they all sit down and whatever and we like i don't even remember what you do apart from saying maybe just like hear from the head teacher about kind of dumbledore comes out and he's like don't go to the corridor the first floor corridor on the right hand side is out of bounds and you you just go on with your day but i remember back

to pins and needles one of my best friends at the time we were all leaving assembly and we would go like row by row and as she stood up she obviously had pins and needles and she just like dropped on the floor like really collapsed like hit the deck and i still think about it which tells me that she definitely still thinks about it a hundred percent a hundred percent she thinks about it it's the worst feeling so i can cope with the little bits of pins and needles but it's when it goes you don't realize that you're in that phase and it's like oh we've gone and then it goes you know what i think is the worst feeling is when you get a cramp in your foot quite specific cramp and i've never oh god it's really i get it quite well not a lot but i've definitely gone through phases of getting

it but i remember once looking at my foot and it was like bulging out is that healthy i know there are some doctors listening so let me know what i should do about that just capitalizing on our doctors yeah god do you ever get it where you sneeze and you get a pain in like your ovaries that's okay not a good sign do you ever get a really sharp pain in like your ribs like kind of your boobs no uh no okay do you oh god we're both not doing well probably the scariest places you can have pain boobs and ovaries not them anywhere well everything's connected isn't it maybe we need some sort of like reflexology situation just touch our feet to fix our any reflexologists out there right shall we what go or do yeah go okay cool let's go do another what like little bit but i

think we've done it look we're talking about feet like yeah i'm done personally i think they're done listening i think they're definitely done um all right well thanks so much it's been a fun one yeah this has been really fun i've enjoyed this a lot good i don't even remember what the fuck we've spoken about but i think i've liked it good i hope you've enjoyed it too guys but what are you going to have to eat now um i don't want to say turkey bacon but i'm loving turkey because it's a bit of an awful phrase turkey bacon is it in what way it's just a bit like are you turkey are you bacon like who are you yeah i don't understand you yeah do you know what i mean i've never seen turkey bacon i i really do

quite like it because i quite like that the rashes are quite thick my boyfriend has them basically and i always steal them what are you not office play but like like what's the in a bagel oh yum yum yum i've been having a vegan sandwich every now and then recently oh nice what vegan bacon are you using um i think it might be the richmond one which i think is one of the better vegetarian bacons there's um a really bad one that they use everywhere the one that's like this isn't bacon this isn't like or is it this ain't it could be this ain't no i'm not sure no i think this isn't actually which is that domino's one that's like this isn't bacon this isn't like or is it this ain't it could be this ain't no i'm not sure no i think this isn't actually which is that dominoes one it's been a long time for it's

been nearly a year exactly i've not been vegan that's crazy but anyway best year ever i'm joking right let's go okay bye if you don't hear from us yeah it's even worse all of that is it me on the intro oh yeah you go for it yeah go for it okay are you ready is it going yes it's going cool it never left yeah no