Goes Without Saying - how to be confident: self esteem? we love to see it

Episode Date: June 22, 2020

insecurities? never heard of her. in this episode of Goes Without Saying, we (sephy & wing) are talking all things confidence and self esteem. from body positivity to self actualisation, we're living our best lives and discussing our relationships with confidence, self-awareness, and popularity. thank us later! speak your mind on our instagram! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. Hi guys, welcome back to High Priestess. I'm Erin. I'm Persephone.

And today we're going to talk about confidence. And hopefully you're going to talk about confidence and hopefully you're going to listen. Shall we get straight into it? Let's just go straight in. Confidence. Okay, I'm going to ask you a question. Okay. Is there a defining moment that you can think of that your confidence was really shaken? What's the first moment you think of? It's quite a personal question, I guess. So we're going straight in 100 though yeah take it away you have the floor so i need to preface it with i think throughout my entire life i've always been told you're just a confident person but almost like with an element of like surprise oh how are you

so confident to me like you're just such a confident person things like that i think i've always had like people coming at me with like an element of like how did you get that like why like what about you like it's almost like an entitlement thing you know what it is and you're gonna absolutely hate this it's not reflective of you but that situation is the whole discourse around how did you get confident how did you get confident or i just love your body confidence and it's someone who is bigger and it's like i just wish i had the confidence like you to wear shorts it's like right so you think that I'm not good enough to be wearing shorts. There's the undertone of surprise.

It's like, why should I not be confident? Kind of Lizzo posting a picture of herself in a bikini and everyone being like, you're so brave. Clap, clap, clap. You're so brave. It's like, no, but. Yeah. Like you're not.

It's not brave. Yeah. It's like, why is that brave? Yes, completely. And I think there's definitely been an element with me of like, people are so confused to see a confident woman since how old do you think well I definitely was like a confident child and a confident teenager and I think I also think a lot of this comes down to popularity and I've always been popular so I've been taught that that's how you occupy the world but I think the moment where it was shaken was I joined a drama club when I was

I'd always been involved in like drama we were just talking about this earlier that in High School Musical you identified as Gabriella yeah I identified as a Sharpay yeah I was told it yeah classic so I think when I joined a drama club I think I was in I think I was about 14 15 it was a specific drama club where everyone was a lot older than me and I was the youngest one and I thought they were all so talented like I literally thought they were incredible basically the club was called the club was called whippersnappers and I because that means like young I honestly don't know but the name was called whippersnappers and I would be like oh my god I've got the whippersnapper feeling like before I go but I've got the whippersnapper feeling like I don't know what it's the whippersnapper feeling. Like before I go, I've got the whippersnapper feeling. Like I don't know what is the whippersnapper feeling.

Later to find out if that's called social anxiety. Yeah, you were nervous. I think that was the first time when I realised, oh my God, like you're not this confident person. Like you have the capacity to be like incredibly insecure. Did something happen in the, what were the classes like? Were you shy? Like, were you not being loud?

Like, what was it? What was different? I was just the youngest I was the youngest but you know when you're the youngest in a group and you're not the baby you're not being like oh my god she's so cute yeah you're too old to be cute you're kind of ugly pubescent yeah you're just the young one like it's just kind of like catch up it's not like oh my god you can play the baby it's like no you're you just need to be as good so I was definitely like super insecure in that way and I think that then bled into like you know when you're usually with

your peer group at school and suddenly when you're with like a lot older and you're the like child of the situation it's like oh fuck and also you're the oldest of your siblings yeah and I always I'm the oldest of my siblings I'm pretty old in the year I'm a December baby yeah big old Capricorn energy and it's I think it was like you're not the leader of this gang you can't be what about you was there a moment when your confidence was shaken was there a moment when my confidence was shaken lots of moments that my confidence has been shaken but nothing like that I'm quite impressed with the that was exactly what I wanted from you well that's just one moment that I remember thinking oh you're not you're not the main character like you're you're not the one that's like come on guys

we're gonna oh that's an area that I'd always taken charge like in drama right and then that was one where it's like no you're not in charge here was it like an ensemble of them or was there one kind of girl that had the spotlight and do you know what I mean there was one girl that I thought was so cool and she had like a bit of like a punky look and I thought she was so I mean she would wouldn't she she had like a side fringe in the days where people had a side fringe but her side fringe was like especially cool kind of went over one eye but like it was a bit too long I'm sure she regrets that now she like can't see out of one eye it's been so strange she's like fully got one like she's blind in one eye there was also a guy that was like a lot older also i fancied someone in the group

that we were doing like a love scene well you would wouldn't you yeah we were doing we were like lovers in the play and i basically fell in love with him and then there was also a guy that was a lot older who i just thought was honestly like the next johnny depp like i was like he's how old he must have been like how old Johnny Depp. Like I was like, he's... How old? He must've been like... How old are these? Are these people like 40? You're like 15, you little girl. So maybe I was like 12, 13, 13, 14 sort of thing. Like I'd say around 13.

And they were probably like 16, 17. Yeah. They looked so cool. Oh, so they're really cool. And you're like a loser. Like you're kind of like full knickers and year six was not far from you my boobs are still growing at this point like they're still growing and they're kind of having sex and these people are like that we've got to go out for a cigarette and i'm like oh my

god completely yeah okay let me think what was the confidence about what you felt like you weren't the leader you were confident in leading and that was shaken you were confident in your talent i think it was my positioning within the group yeah the dynamic i think that was like my positioning within the group i've always been like in the group not even in a leadering way just in the in the group like a voice within the group were you allowed like child and teenager i was quite like a precocious child maybe not so much the teenager i'm not sure i've definitely always been like opinionated can you give me some more but i want to hear yours though i don't know what mine i don't have anything to say so i'm really interested by yours like i can't think of one moment wait so

why can't you think of one moment have you you just feel like has your confidence always been strong has your confidence always been shaky i don't necessarily i wouldn't say my confidence has always been shaky but i wouldn't say my confidence has always been strong either but there isn't really one moment that has shaken me also i just want to say that we've been we're discussing this because we've got some comments that say the things like you guys just have such a great sense of self like you guys just really know who you are and things like that and which is amazing that it appears that way i love the sound i love to hear it but it's also quite interesting because that's not so much how we would perceive ourselves and i would look at other people think oh my god you

have such a great sense of self and sense of self has never been like a conscious thing i think for either of us now it is for me oh really i think over the past few years my sense of self has been a conscious thing for me I would say recently like within the last few weeks who I am has been called into question in specific ways like what I want and things like that I think over the past like I it's different but I think I've had to think a lot about my sense of self since I was probably about 16 because I had to move out when I was 16 yeah and so and that was on me like I think it was more so that I don't know I was an only child and I was pretty quiet and very peaceful and no one was no one would really interrupt that that was never really interrupted by anything but when it was and I was slightly older I felt like I should have had someone to um like save me and it wasn't

happening the months were like weeks time was passing no one was saving me i was like shit i'm gonna have to i'm gonna actually have to speak i'm gonna actually have to raise my hand and like speak for myself do you know what i mean i'm gonna have to cause a scene yeah completely and scene was caused and it was great and i think i i just think it was part of my awareness of myself that i was quiet and so and not out of any reason out of confidence it's not for lack of confidence it was more i think it's twofold i was quiet because in a way i just i much prefer to observe for the most part and like almost for your safety like it's safer to just be an observer rather than be the one that's like risking it all fighting but also then the other part of it was kind of

i don't want to say i looked down on everyone but like if i'm quite in a situation it's probably because i think you're a dumb bitch and like i feel like i don't the things i'm going to talk about i'm not going to interest you and you're just not going to be able to comprehend my yeah scope do you know what i mean so i'm not going to like if you want to talk about x y and z but you have no understanding of a b and c which is where my your understanding is coming from yeah if we're just not compatible i'll be quiet i'll give i'll you know i'll entertain you i'll humor you i'll give you the space i'll give you the stage you can have your fun you can make your jokes and i'll make you feel great I'll laugh and I'll clap and I'll be an amazing observer but yeah then I just actually had to I had to um back myself when what was was there a

point when you decided I'm gonna back myself when I had to move out I was like this is a long story I'm not gonna go into it but I had to leave my family home as a child as a refugee of my own home um because i don't know it wasn't safe for me it wasn't safe emotionally or physically it was it was you know it got to a point i had to leave and that in itself is quite an extreme situation that it doesn't really make sense for you not to be extreme completely is that you can't be calm in a situation that isn't calm even though it was calm but like you can't be quiet in a loud situation because no one will hear you if you're whispering when everyone else is shouting you need to be loud you need to raise your voice also you kind of owe it to yourself in a place where you are being mistreated it's like wait i'm now it's come to a point where i have to say something completely yeah i think that situation

and then i came out alive thank god and i think I think that was just like, oh, OK, well, I've done that. And I felt really good for doing that. And it worked out and it was it was really liberating. So it was like, OK, well, then fuck you lot. I'm just going to talk the most shit. I'm going to start a podcast like I'm going to I'm going to be loud like you're going to know about it. I love that. I think that was the moment because before then I had no everything was fine.

It was peaceful. I had no reason to announce anything do you know what I mean and then I think the more that you see things that you don't want to go untested I don't know if it's so much about confidence as much as it was about finding I don't want to say finding my voice because that's cringe but just like using my voice oh no I love finding my voice I do think it is a thing of finding your voice though because it's like if you think your voice is invalid and then suddenly it's like, oh no, I need to use this for my safety.

It's like realising the power of like, oh, if I just speak up for myself. I can get out, yeah. I can be safe. I love that. So now I think that situation has obviously shaped my whole confidence like in me now today.

In that situation that you described that shook your confidence, what have been like the hangovers of that if any yeah i definitely think there have been hangovers from that and i think it was sort of pointing to rather than being like a one-off thing of like in this specific group you feel stressed oh my god oh god i just got an email saying cine world cinemas are reopening what when best news ever i'm still not going for another like four months probably no me neither but i'm glad to see my favorite place my home is reopening yeah i think it kind of pointed to a larger issue in that something that would face throughout my own my whole life um rather

than just like this specific group makes you anxious it's like your sense of self is so at the center it's so based in ego that you are the center of the group that when you find that you're not you're going to be shook every time every time that you get placed or like on the peripheries of a situation it's going to shake your ego so badly or when you feel like a dynamic has been set up without you and you're coming in late yeah I think I'd be really uncomfortable with that yeah 100% if you if I feel like I'm late to something or kind of um just missing the communication like I feel that everyone else has an understanding that I have missed I would have to take it upon myself to be like okay what about this is unsettling to you so for example a

seminar 100% when I went to uni oh that's what you're getting out I see that's what I was getting out got it um 100% everyone knows my life story better than me. So that definitely, definitely came into play at university. When I went to uni, sat down in my first seminar, I was ready. I had my books. I was ready to learn. I was like learning. This is my whole thing.

English literature. I can do this. Math. It's the same in every country. I'm in for this. I know what I'm doing is books. I can do this. It's books and talking.

Sat down. down boy oh boy were you wrong sat down the teacher goes okay guys let's just go around the class and we're all going to say our names little fun fact about ourselves my tummy starts hurting oh god my tummy's turning I'm feeling kind of homesick too much pressure and I'm nervous they go around they're going around here we go it's coming up to me. Could be sick at this moment. Because for some reason, that kind of setting, I've always said that my anxious scenario is a group between, I think it's 11 to 20 is my, like, group that I've always said is, like,

that's not good for me. It's too much. Which is a weird saying I've had for ages. Like, if it's between 11 and 20. Or, like, I can't remember the numbers now. Kind of the thing that we were saying before about,'m just not a morning person it's like 100 box you're gonna make it worse it's like oh so there's 10 you're fine exactly yeah what about 10 and a half i think i've always said my justification for that has always been oh but you don't want it in a group where you either want it where you say nothing at all or where you're in a group of

three and you're the main like you're one of the main people talking if you just have one chance to speak and you fuck it up that's the worst thing ever like you don't want to just have one chance and you've got one chance to speak but that's kind of a seminar to me it's like you've got one chance to prove your point and say it or like say hello my name is persephone and my fun fact is that i read the color purple over the summer holidays which is what i said you start crying which is exactly what that's a fun fact about you you read the color purple well no i think we had to say what's one book we'd read the summer before and which is what I said. Why are you stuck crying? Which is exactly what I said. What? That's a fun fact about you. You read The Color Purple. Well, no, I think we had to say

what's one book we'd read the summer before and I was like, I read The Color Purple by Alice Walker. You fucked it. That's not a fun fact. I don't know. We had to say the book that we read and then the girl next to me

like turned to me and was like, oh my God, yeah, I love that. And I like couldn't keep eye. Oh, she threw you off. I couldn't keep eye contact. I was like, oh yeah, okay, move on. Did you ignore her? I think that's quite bad. You've just given a speech. says oh my god i love that too they're nodding they're

trying to make genuine interaction and you're like oh shut the fuck up well i think i did say something i think i was like yeah yeah yeah i love it yeah i quickly looked at the person next to me like take the pressure off me like you can feel everyone's eyes on you which is was i think was a strange thing because i i love having people's eyes on me like i love that shit if it's like an audience of people yeah god that's my jam in that situation where it's like you're gonna get a minute of shine and then it's gonna be handed over I think I'm uncomfortable with that yeah it's like you have to make that minute incredibly shining or then you're the you're the nervous girl forever yeah not gonna happen just going back to what you said about people

being shocked by your confidence where do you think your confidence came from i think i was just always raised with like a sense of like importance elaborate but i also this this leads into a question i was going to ask you in that in our popularity episode we talk about the fact we've always been popular at school okay and i think my confidence is only so much from me as it is from the external things that i've just been fed oh I was gonna ask you something oh really does the same thing am I gonna step on you well I was just gonna say that I've been fed an important sense of self by the world so of course I think oh well I'm happy being the centre yeah because your friends have been the

centre too you've been in the centre group yeah well I was gonna ask you i guess um maybe the theoretical question behind that is your sense of confidence derived more from yourself internally or derived externally from others you're joking i literally wrote in my notes confidence colon external slash yeah internal question mark yeah we should start a podcast i know i know we really should well can you go first because i've been talking my ass off um okay it's my it's annoying because i was thinking i was gonna ask you this not ask myself well i yeah but i was thinking i was gonna ask you this um it's my confidence in myself or others well yeah we've both been fed because that's what i was gonna say when i told you to elaborate when you say as a child i was always fed that i was important a sense of importance etc same but i

think i express my confidence in a different way to you and i think also i have a different the things that we want from situations are different all the ways that we act or manipulate situations are different and even though i think our confidence at certain ages would have in a way paralleled one another i reckon in situations we would behave very differently i.e our parents getting divorced and you like made it a really fun story yeah you made it a show for attention i built a narrative and made it a show yeah yeah whereas i didn't kind of why would you do that which is just boring but i know that you and i behave differently which by the way we will discuss we are doing a parents in divorce episode at some point where we will go into we will yeah because we've had

lots of requests but yep it's just like god you're asking for the work guys like you don't ask much do you we give you a little 30 second snippet on a podcast don't say i don't treat you yeah i just wonder in ways that i think we both would have had good or like a strong sense of self or etc whatever a good understanding of our own confidence even at a young age i wonder why they were expressed differently do you know what i mean completely i think it's interesting that people are shocked by your confidence i would i would just love to know why well the reason that i'm hung up on this is because i i i think the opposite in the way that even though that is the same for me i've been told i'm the gabriella i in a way that makes me worse as in that that um acts as

something that deteriorates counterproductive it it deteriorates my confidence more so in what way remember i said to you in school they do superlatives love it and at the end of maybe sixth form or something they did like most likely to blah blah blah blah blah and there was one prettiest girl they did prettiest girl prettiest boy very i don't think you could do that now, but this wasn't even long ago. No, it sounds absolutely horrific. But just in the sense,

I reckon they would do prettiest, but I don't think they would split it, girl and boy. Sounds pretty awful. Yeah, well, anyway, and I was thinking, oh my God, if you won prettiest girl, like you just can't,

you can never think you're not pretty because you've won it. You've got an award to prove it. It's a validating thing. You can never say, oh my God, I just hate my face again. you've got an award to prove it it's a validating thing you can never say oh my god i just hate my my face again you've got the award to prove it so what everyone's lying to you i'm just i just hate the way i look i hate the way i look blah blah blah i remember thinking yeah you win prettiest girl you're you're set basically like you can never think i'm not pretty i was quite truant and i'd heard whispers of this girl

being nominated for prettiest girl and that was what i was thinking oh my god well if she wins that she can never think that she's not pretty and blah blah she can never think that come to the day this is a real weird flex but okay on the day um sat in the thing and the guy who was organizing the awards was like erin you've won something and i was mortified i was like oh my god i'm gonna have won like yeah most likely to not turn up for school or like i thought like oh shit like i'm about to get absolutely like torn apart like this is not a good feeling fuck like i've won something bad i didn't in any way think that i was nominated i didn't know that i was nominated for anything

because i was wasn't fucking turning up i wasn't there when they the votes. I literally didn't know this whole thing had been happening. Yeah. And then got there and they were like, oh, most prettiest boy, whatever, Pritesh, I think. Who? Prettiest, Pritesh's boy. Prettiest girl, Erin O'Morali. Everyone does a clap. Okay, amazing.

That's me, by the way. And then move on to the next thing. And I just... Honestly, world shifting moment. Yeah, world shifting moment moment but in the worst way because the first immediately everyone's clapping and my friends going yeah like everyone's like really screaming and it's just like tunnel vision looking around the assembly thinking oh absolutely which one of you motherfuckers voted for a different girl oh god which one of you right

now in this room is thinking how the fuck did that ugly girl win pretty girl yeah i'm thinking this is bad this is a bad moment because you're thinking you don't believe it you you just don't i just didn't believe it which sounds again it sounds stupid it sounds like i'm being like guys when i was 16 when i was 18 i won pretty scum but it's when you win well when i when that happened it was like i know there i know there are people who disagree i know that's not true so it just if you're willing to not believe it you're if you're willing it's the same it's the same thing that we always say if you're how do you say it you'll find the evidence for what you choose to believe absolutely so even

though the evidence is you've won this award you're still thinking undeserving well you're also you're going to be tallying up the people so you didn't vote you like this must have been a 51 49 split exactly this is a brexit situation this must be a joke even i was actually thinking this must be a joke but now i'm like yeah, yeah, fuck you, lot prettiest girl. 2K15. We always say this in terms of like career. Like, so once we've done this thing, then you cannot be insecure about anything.

Once you've done that one thing, I definitely used to think this quite a lot. Like once I've reached a size eight, I will never be sad again. I'll be 100% happy. It's almost like once you've won prettiest girl, you can never think ugly. Yeah, you can, because you will just discount it. You can, you you'll just discount every single bit like i need to get an a in maths

and i need to get this job i need to do this as soon as he's my boyfriend as soon as they like me then i'm good enough it's like no no the human condition you will never be good enough you may as well just be happy this is what i also think with confidence being internal with an internal sense of self if you're trying to fill the void of so you have a not you one has a lack of confidence and you win prettiest girl or you get the boy that you think will validate you and you're trying to fill your void your confidence void with all of these things but it's never good enough because you can literally just discount all of these things unless it literally comes from like an innate sense of self which i literally do not message me saying how do you build that because i don't have a fucking clue i think i know

but we'll get around to it. Well, I think I know, but it doesn't help anyone because it's like, maybe she's born with it. Like, it literally is like, you have to be born with it. Everything sounds cliche until you understand it. Yeah. I think a lot of the discourse around confidence and sense of self and blah, blah, blah, blah,

and contentment and happiness and success sounds really, really cliche until you're in it yourself and you've like got a grip of it because i think up until that point you're looking for the quick fix you're looking for the you're typing in how to lose a stone in two weeks oh my goodness you're typing in like how to be how to be smart how to be funny how to be like you're you're when you're preoccupied with the fickle things the superficial stuff it does all sound like ridiculous cliche but it's only once you've got a grip of how fickle that really is then you can see that the cliche

really is the only stuff that actually means anything and it's not tangible yeah and those things don't actually result in happiness those things could contribute towards your happiness but they will not bring it about themselves like those things independently like absolutely oh my god if i just have the perfect dress for this event i will just be so happy forever like i just need to walk in and be like wow at the fucking prom you want like this big moment like i don't know yeah your hermione moment the things people dream of yeah you saw hermione at the yule ball and you just think if that was me i would be so happy but it's so true think now how many instances have there been

where you placed happiness on a moment or an achievement or a tick box, a check and a goal? And now that feels like distant history. And that was months ago and you're still miserable and you immediately complete it and you're moving on to the next. Absolutely, constantly. We've all done it.

I remember this exact thing, such a good example of that, was that I did this. I had this thing where I was going to read poetry to an audience. Was I there? You were there. You were present in the audience. I was. This wasn't actually that long ago.

And it was a, I took part in like a six week sort of programme of up and coming London poets. It was very cool. It was cool. But also I was, everyone else there was like established poets and I was very much like I don't know how I'm here like I don't know why I'm in this group like yeah what's going on and at the end we had to read our poetry to like an audience and I remember thinking if I do this I will never be sad again I will never be nervous I will have ticked off the biggest accomplishment like that is such a terrifying thing for me to do. One, write a fucking poem.

Two, read it to an audience. Like that I couldn't even comprehend it. And after I did it, I was exhilarated. Like you were there. Oh, it was so good. To be honest, I'm not gonna lie. I killed it. The whole room, bawling with laughter, I must say.

My inner stand-up comedian came out. Laughter with you, by the way. Oh yeah, absolutely. The whole room bawling with laughter. It wasn't a sad poem. It was a comedy. Turns out it was a comedy satirical yeah it was genius and it was well in my mind i absolutely killed it yeah you did i came out of it i remember i was on the train home with my flatmates i was like i will never be sad again i was like i don't know when I remember saying I don't think I'll ever come down from this little did you know cut to and oh how quickly the um validation wears off like it comes down completely the veil is thin well the next morning you wake up in your in your room and it's kind of

covered in the clothes from the night before of like what I was planning on wearing and you're like oh okay I guess I'll make a cup of tea like it's like when the claps the distant sound of claps are fading yeah yeah it's suddenly very quiet yeah suddenly quiet in that room and you think oh maybe I should write another poem like it's sort of like you're just chasing this thing but if you if you have a thing that you're instantly your your internal monologue is just clapping for yourself anyway, then you don't need it. But I'm there going, come on, let's hear the applause. Completely. Just thinking about people being like, how are you so confident? Blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I reckon it's a lot about how women aren't expected to be confident. Do you agree? Absolutely. Yeah, completely. I think that is the crux of it. I think it's more about how a woman occupies the space and you aren't necessarily womanly in the way that you occupy the space i actually think just thinking about it just in that moment yeah um i think because i've definitely been raised by like a lot of like strong female figures yeah that it's not unheard

for a woman to be like ruling the room and like saying her opinions and then in a group then when you're put in a classroom situation with a group of boys and everyone's kind of like oh god oh god oh god it wouldn't be it wouldn't be natural for me to like not say my opinion I maybe have a more masculine approach in quotes masculine societally approach to like my own opinions or stating my opinions I agree with you and i actually also i agree with you but i also think it's complex because i've had a very similar situation and that i think the most like the most guiding force in my life has been my nan and who i just can't seem to shut up about oh she's a priestess she's in every episode she really is what's her name by the way why don't i know her name well she has quite a few names she goes by many names she honestly is what's her name by the way why don't i know her name well she has quite a few

names she goes by many names she honestly is a faceless man yeah she has yeah truly alter egos yeah she's she doesn't well so she would say call her betty that's so funny that's hysterical because i said to you this was ages ago when we were coming up with yeah but betty is like rizzo well no that's so long ago we said think think of our conversation we had a thing where we were saying to each other what names would suit each other and I said I said what name for me and you said Betty and I got offended that's a fucking old woman's name and you kept saying no like Rizzo but it is like Rizzo but that's funny that you thought my name would be your nan's name you see me as your nan I I obviously don't see my nan as a woman called Betty.

I see her as Nan. Yeah, but still, if I said to you, oh, you really suit the name Merville, you suit the name Merville, which is my nan's name, my grandma's name. That's far more obscure. But also, it's more about... You've just really... I don't know where I'm getting this from.

The name Merville for you. But my nan has like 10 names got it okay go on like she actually does have like 10 names like one from a communion and one from when she was a kid and one of this and one of that one in ireland one in england one in london one in dublin yeah i mean like she you know yeah she cares about somebody say and she is um definitely in a societal sense a masculine presence she's been single the whole time i i knew her because my granddad died unfortunately and she has always and even both my mum too have always been like you need to if you're gonna be with a boy you

need to be with a boy who is gonna like do the housework oh that's the dream i've definitely been taught especially by my nan to like lead to lead yeah to be in charge and like not wait to be led yeah like my nans are so independent to make decisions for other people completely yeah to be a control freak to be a dictator to be literally a dictator but my nan is definitely like strong willed and headstrong. And so I think I'm really, really headstrong. But I also think I'm a bit of an Aaron Burr. And I like to, you know, what does he say? He says, there's nothing like summer in the city.

He does say that, yeah. But he also says something about... He says, I'm a trust fund, baby. You can trust me. You can trust me. Every proclamation guarantees free ammunition for your enemies. Oh my God, I've got shivers. says something about he says i'm a trust fund baby you can trust me you can trust me every proclamation guarantees free ammunition for your enemies oh my god i've got shivers in his voice as well and it's just like yeah i don't go spewing i mean here i am on a podcast but i don't go

spewing my opinions even though you might think that i do because the more you give the more people have to use against you i completely agree so i feel like i agree with you i've had a very like matriarchal sense of of life and sense of myself within the world and like occupying space but i think i've also been more observant probably because i'm an air sign because we like to keep our intelligence i think it's about intelligence thinking that you're above people and so to spare them the insecurity of like you're not gonna understand me so i may as well just shut up it's a crazy thing to think it's a joke like that's a crazy that's a rudest thing but it's so true i don't think i think it by the way on a conscious level but i reckon there's a bit of a

uh libran air about me that is just like i just won't bother yeah it's just kind of like my mind is not facilitated by you when you just want to talk about like fake tan oh that's fucking rude it's fucking gutting but it's also true oh i'll talk about fake tan till the sun goes down well i want to talk about the patriarchal and the yeah like racial issues of fake tan i don't want to talk about which one is going to give me a bronzy glow well i want to talk about it all and then i also kind of talk about how i've been putting coconut hair coconut oil on my hair making a mask like I want to talk about it all yeah because I'm also really um traditionally feminine in lots of ways I think that's where the confusion is though I think that's the thing of why they shocked when why they shocked that you're confident is in you act traditionally masculine in

the fact you you are not scared to put your opinions across but you look traditionally feminine completely like when I got my results remember Completely. Like when I got my results, remember I told you this, I got my results on my head of year. They were obviously amazing grades and my head of year sat me down and she pulled them out. She was like, oh my God,

I didn't think you were, oh yeah, well I just didn't. And I was like, sorry, what was that? She was like, no, no, no, I just, I just didn't, you know, it doesn't matter, I shouldn't say that. What was she saying like well because i'm the fucking hot girl you thought i was a dumb bitch so she was going to say she thought you're she thought i was dumb because i'm a girl results were going to be shit yeah because you're pretty because the boys fancy me so i must be dumb how

hilarious is that it's like no bitch gabrielle Montez motherfucker it's kind of book smart it's kind of book smart like you can be both you could have been um have all the you could have had all the boys fancy you and you could have got a 4.0 on the GPA give immaculate hand jobs or whatever she says yeah yeah it's like oh we could have done both it's like yeah you literally could do both yeah you could have so that poor little teacher was only doing one but you're 2000 and late yeah miss salvo she's a fucking cunt sounds like one hate that bitch i actually really hate her one time i was on my period and i wanted to leave to go to the toilet and pee and she knew i was on my period because i already said i'm on my period to try and get out of doing p.e she didn't let me and then she wouldn't let me go to the toilet and i was like i'm fully gonna get my tampon out and

shove it in your fucking mouth if you don't let me go i didn't say that but i thought it as i walked away calmly that is hilarious that is actually also i don't use tampons anymore moon cup queen sustainable queen plastic free periods i'm gonna get my moon cup out and shove it in your fucking yeah i'm gonna take my moon cup out and pour it down your throat teachers were crazy like teachers be crazy man yeah meanwhile i'm saying i'm gonna get my moon cup out and pour it down their throat and i'm like teachers are crazy they are crazy i remember thinking of pe i had some fucking crazy situation teachers 100 sample size of psychopaths no sane sane woman thinks I'm going to be a PE teacher. Correct me if I'm wrong, guys.

Message us if you are a PE teacher and you're a nice, normal human being. I think female PE teachers hate girls. Absolutely. Completely agree. So it's like, just go and fucking teach the boys then, you fucking bitch. You've got issues. You can see our trauma coming out. No, I think they've got...

They're sociopaths. They want to control. They want to force everyone to run, run, run. They like to see people. They want to see you sweat. They want to see you red in the face. They want to see people, they want to see women in pain. Yeah.

I'm on my period. I've got blood coming out of me and I feel like I've got knives in my fucking womb. But you want to see me run from, do a fucking bleep test. Beep. Go faster. Oh, fuck off. Absolutely fuck off. fucking womb but you want to see me run from do a fucking bleep test go faster oh absolutely fuck off do you want to hear the crazy thing that this this p teacher said to me yeah so she's the

headmaster's wife and the headmaster was also okay he's a teacher and who they were both teachers and they were both p teachers oh so me and my friend it was raining for p and we had to go outside disgusting in the in the days when you're a fucking 13 year old, you're insecure. You've just spent all morning straightening your hair. Straightening your hair. Exactly. Straightening your hair, putting your makeup on because you're insecure and you're the boy you fancy is fucking next door.

I'm sorry we live in a patriarchal world. Yeah. And also I'm just living my best life over here while you're an ugly 35 year old PE teacher who hates herself. I'm sorry that your boyfriend thinks about someone else while he's fucking you. Now move on. Stop taking it out on me. And you want me to play hockey fuck off and you want me to play fucking lacrosse are you mad you out of your goddamn mind love it

so we took our umbrellas outside because we were like we're not doing this we're just going to stand outside with our umbrellas because we're not fucking getting our hair wet oh i can i can see it now so yeah you can imagine and she was literally like and she said to us literally crossed her arms and she's like um girls you're lucky that you're even at school you're lucky that you're not getting whipped whilst you're at school you're lucky to be here so can you put those umbrellas away and take this seriously please whip me bitch and it's like you just told me i am lucky with me lucky i'm so grateful that you're not whipping me right now wow it's like you're actually out of your goddamn mind a white woman a white woman whipped dear i mean it's insane but we used to be quite bad to p teachers i would love

to do an episode on school and like makeup and uniform patriarchal rules i think it comes up quite a lot in this podcast i spoke to because i speak to some of my friends from school about the podcast and they were saying it's interesting how much school comes up because it is quite a recurring theme it's so formative i think yeah it's like it does teach you about like political systems from a really young age like it's such a political sort of hub where like all the structures that we have in later life are up at play but with a really small condensed system and i think also we look back and are like if only i had the vocab that i do now i think there's so much do you know what i mean it's like you're lucky that you had me at 14 where i just took

my earrings out and kept quiet yeah you're fucking lucky motherfucker you are so lucky see me in the streets miss savile i always think this though i would love to go back in time time machine get me in a tardis but i'm me i've got my brain but i look like i was then my hair was straightened within an inch of its life i had the foundation lips on i'm ready to go oh amazing i'm ready to go and oh my god the things i would say the just i have the intelligence i have now and all the lessons defo i definitely did put up a fight though yeah but i wasn't i put up a fight but it was no it wasn't articulate enough not as well as quipped exactly yeah it was it was kind of you're just a bitch anyway well i kind of was going at that i remember saying there's a stupid guy called miss i'm actually not i'm gonna stop saying my teacher's name because

yeah they literally get letters there was a stupid guy teacher a male teacher and he was kicking off about wearing makeup and so i went a thing of of like why does a 35 year old man get to tell me a 13 year old girl what i can put on my face based on his sexuality and his preferences that he has towards young kids absolutely yeah and that was i think pretty good for a 13 year old or whatever but now i would be like i to be honest now i would like this is a bit much for a podcast i was gonna say i would trick him into like touching me and get him fired i have so much like anger but the thing is i don't i don't think that that is extreme though because it's like it's not tricking them into it they would do that well yeah

if you were gonna touch me you're gonna touch me also there are so many things at school that i just thought you were attracted to me you as a teacher oh 100 you were attracted to my fucking friends we had one teacher that came up to us once and he was dodgy anyway and he was kind of the hot teacher so everyone kind of fancied him but it was also a PE teacher so psychopath anyway psycho psycho absolute psycho it's like your personality is you have a six-pack so you became yeah you thought you could teach people about it like you're fucking weird and you want young children to fancy you you're a freak oh yeah that's an interesting dynamic it's completely true you want you know that the kids all fancy you and you love it it is kind of part of the sell though because i would think all right if i'm gonna be a teacher i'll be

like all the all the boys will fancy me it's kind of a role i don't think i have any desire for the kids to fancy i don't but i see how people get into the role i don't i don't honestly catch me in like teaching school next week but yeah and i remember he came up to like my group of friends and one of my friends was sitting there and she was kind of like pretty girl um and he was like oh my god i had a dream about you last night and she was like oh what was it about and he was like i can't tell you and it's like oh you're a pedophile then you're a pedophile then- Well, let's get this guy killed. Well, I always, I'm gonna- I have some fantasies about petrol bombing his house.

I'm down. I'm down. Give us the name. So yeah, teach the psychopaths and- And that's the end of our podcast. Yeah, I would love to get more into that at a later date. We will. I think I have so many complex views about teaching.

I reckon you lot have got good stories too, or horrific stories stories but i reckon you lot have got good points to discuss yeah well there's so many things about school if you think fucking school uniform is a fucking scam is an absolute fucking disgusting sexist scam well let's save it let's save it i'm going through makeup disgusting disgusting we already covered two points that are completely sexist the fact that they segregate abilities at such an early age based on sats results which is disgusting and also based on your family's income how were your sats results by the way stunning but they do it based on your family's income as well how disgusting is that yeah horrific so school is a scam and i hate it i actually don't but i would never wait to reorganize the entire system same back to

confidence so something interesting that i think i was talking about this the other day of like do you feel less or more confidence with within quarantine and i was kind of thinking of it in terms of like you don't really look like yourself in quarantine because it's like you don't really put on looks and outfits and all this stuff you're not really going out you don't really look like yourself in quarantine, because it's like, you don't really put on looks and outfits and all this stuff. You're not really going out, you don't really look like yourself, but do you feel more like yourself? And I was thinking, in terms of thinking about recording this podcast, do you feel that your confidence comes from presenting yourself externally in a certain way? Like, do you feel more confident when you put on a look, like makeup, you're ready to be presentable in the world as you want,

or do you want me to be in the bath? world as you want or do you mean like in the bath well when you had this conversation days ago with me i said i'm not sure was it with you god yeah it was it was but this is the thing i realized that i must i must go around having the same conversations with everyone because i was saying it to my sister and my mom like so do you feel because remember i said it was um lucy moon was saying her friend had said that she feels better when she's just in joggers you remember i remember yeah that she feels better in joggers no makeup whatever but lucy lucy moon was saying that she feels good when she's like got herself together and is like in a look and i was kind of saying

to them to the screen that I was holding on the phone, I said to her, but she didn't hear me, that it's a bit of both for me, I think. Yeah. I almost think it's not even about the external. It is about my state of mind in that moment. Because say I've got this look and it's a great look and I put it on on Monday and I'm feeling great. And in that way, then you could say that, yeah, my confidence is coming from the external. It's coming from a patriarchal facet of life. But in the same way, I could have that very same look and put it on next Monday and I'll be like,

I look so ugly today. I look horrific. I hate myself. I have no confidence. And it's really not about the look and it's not about the patriarchal makeup and all of that. It's about my own internal it's about perception in the same way that some days i could be wearing nothing in a very natural state and feel really horrific and another time i could be wearing the

exact same thing looking the exact same way physically nothing has changed but emotionally everything's different yeah i feel great so yeah I think it's much more about my personal sense of self just on any given day and it really can change within any given day I don't think it's about with any given minute yeah like mine's not even the day it's like yeah it's any moment who knows how I could feel god knows I could see the wrong thing yeah downward spiral from there I definitely feel good in a look but I also feel good not in a look. And like, and same for bad, vice versa. I think it's more about my internal.

So I wonder what it is then about, do you agree? I, let me think. Or do you always feel better in a look? No, no, no. I was thinking, I completely agree that it's mixed. I think I feel most myself when I am in like as little as possible kind of reading something I really like like watching something I really like or in a bath walking like with my dog do you know

what I mean like I feel most myself when I'm like stripped back back back like I think I feel most like confident in my like being of my soul when I'm like in as little as possible and kind of very much alone like very much kind of doing my own thing yeah your natural state but then again i completely feel confidence in in a look like i i love i love being in a look more than anything like i completely love that like cannot wait cannot wait to put on a fucking jumpsuit honestly i'm grinning at the thought yeah just honestly can't wait to be in a look yeah like honestly put on like lipstick like oh my god so what do you think it is then i don't know i guess they're two different areas of confidence one is like an innate confidence in yourself yeah and one is the confidence that comes with knowing people fancy you and are looking

at you and thinking wow i love that that she's doing like i love her hair the confidence that comes from knowing the external things are looking at you and like the show that you're putting on yeah i love that and i also like they're different kinds of confidence for me i just wonder what changes within within the moments do you know what i mean what makes us have a bad confidence day or what makes us have a good confidence day is what it's just it's just like hormones no i think it's like you saw something i mean like my airy fairy mind is yeah exactly it's just like hormones no i think it's like you saw something do you know i mean like my airy fairy mind is yeah exactly it's like what how can i place that well do you ever get it where you've been scrolling through something like in the morning like i

at the moment i'm really not going on my phone in the morning because i just think it's a really horrific thing to do to your brain but like do you ever get it where you've been scrolling in the morning scroll scroll scroll like you do like a 20 minute scroll you get up and you're like why do I feel bad and it's like you've seen something in that 20 minutes with the millions of things you've just consumed something didn't sit right with you probably all of it yeah but like there's there's been a thing like there was a moment that you just scrolled past and you saw something it's something clicked in your head and you can't place what it was and you're having to like trace back your steps like what was it that's triggered me do you ever get that yeah but i don't even think it's one specific thing that i've saw i reckon it's a mixture of

oh now i've just spent my morning scrolling and also and just being exhausted by i've set up my day by being completely stationary in my bed just like moving my finger slightly and just like indulging in other people's lives and you've set yourself up as peripheral like you are the watcher of other people's lives exactly yeah you're looking not the center of your own morning yeah yeah but then i also think it's not it doesn't even need to be that i've seen one specific thing i think it's just the overall tone of being peripheral just a lack of self yeah completely sense of self because suddenly i'm seeing like kind of someone's friends friends comment on their pic and i'm indulging in a friendship group i've never met these people i'm like clicking to see where their dress is from and i don't even like it

like my brain just feels very simultaneously over and underwhelmed not a good way to start a morning completely and meanwhile it's like you've got like a delicious bit of pancakes that could be in downstairs and like a stack of like harry potter books behind you that you could be reading do you know i mean you've got stuff that you i definitely feel that from like god i am surrounded by like amazing things like my dog is downstairs i have so many things i could fucking read the rest of lord of the rings right now but i spend my fucking morning looking at friend of a friend of a friend of a friend's boyfriends mothers sisters cats instagram all morning and it's like why did you do that i agree so definitely i think that leads to a lack of self 100 i think you're right when you say your sense of self in that situation is is gone you're not yourself in that moment you're just a pair of

eyes i also i wanted to ask you in terms of a very psychological in terms of Maslow's hierarchy of needs oh wow love it how far are you from self-actualizing or have you self-actualized because I have a whole thing of where my ideal self will meet my actual self and I'll know that I have self-actualized and I am being my best you well because I was thinking it this morning have I self-actualized like when will I self-actualize like what what does that look like and beyond just like my basic needs being fulfilled what I was initially thinking I'll probably self-actualize when I'm probably about like 40 and then I was like how funny to say I'm gonna self-actualize when I'm 40 like it's

literally the thing that we were saying earlier of like placing happiness and success on like a later day on an event or something and it's also i'm a morning person thing it's like why when you're like what's happening when you're 40 on your 40th birthday oh my god exactly it's just ah well i'm not going to self-actualize now yeah but it was actually based in the fact that then i got in further and i was like well it's not just about being 40 it's the fact that I cannot self-actualize until I've been a good mum wow okay lover do you get what I mean and so I could self-actualize in the sense of yeah my 23 year old self for example could look like that but until I've been a good mum I feel like my life's purpose and my whole scope of what I want and who I am and what I can do and all of this somewhere in it needs to be

being a good mum so until I've done that I can't self-actualize because it's just not the case I completely completely understand and I completely agree kind of you're you're brought to tears I'm like wow I think my thing is like a bit I need to to be not only a good mom, but I need to be like completely successful. But I don't mean like successful under capitalism. I mean successful in my own understanding of success in that have created something that I'm like really proud of. And like I have like a pet cow. I'm successful in the way that I envision my life to go. I was thinking this other day. I think i will set will have self-actualized i think the thing i want in my life is to be kind of have a home that would have one of those

fridges you know it has ice that comes out of it and things like that i've got one downstairs really well you've completed it mate yeah self-actualized that's how stunning i want my life to be like so easy and okay because at the moment i'm having to like get a tray of ice well that's really awful fill it up and things like that like that's really awful it's like i just want like a leisurely leisurely life like i have ice that comes my thing like a fucking boiling water tap i was gonna say i want a boiling water tap and i don't have one of those yeah just my life is so leisurely like that's what i think all of self-actualized like i go downstairs um like my robot comes out and like greets me like my alien husband like um is beautiful yeah just my life is so stunning and

I have like pigs in the house cows in the house a baby lamb do you know what I mean like I'm in a stable nice yeah yeah yeah it needs to be stunning that and I live in a and I have a water park in my garden completely I agree so what stops you from self-actualizing now money well i think there's a lot of steps before i could even get to the place that there's a lot of stuff i need to tick off before i can live in my like boiling water tap house yeah but a lot of psychological stuff because it's not the achievements kind of stuff i think in a way that i could i completely agree there's loads of things that i need to have to self-actualize but i think largely it comes down to to self-actualize i would need to be my sense of self would be strong

in the sense that it wouldn't be every moment it's a lucky dip of whatever like who are we gonna get today like what's up with steam we're dealing with today like i this is it yeah the thing that we discussed earlier i think that's when you self-actualize completely and all jokes aside of having a fucking fridge with the fucking ice in which i do want that actually has nothing to do with like genuinely that was all nonsense no i i think it does i will i will die happy if i do not have any of that stuff but i think the thing is the lucky dip is so genius when we said it's like we're walking on a tightrope and any gust of wind could just blow you off god we're depressed we're so melancholy and then we get messages saying you guys are so confident we have a great sense of stuff like we

said we were walking on a thin tight rope and any gust of wind any gust could blow us off we're clinically insane we're like actually hugely depressed but i think it's like when i'm walking on a thick tight rope like i'm thickening my tight rope like when I'm walking on a thick tightrope like I'm thickening my tightrope like there's less chance of a gust of wind being able to dismantle my entire like being in life exactly I think my self-actualization is that I'm not on a tightrope at all I'm like in the middle of like a field like you can't blow me off like I've just built my own fucking like platform completely I completely agree yeah security look at the metaphors beautiful i feel like we've come to a natural close and now let me go read that at a poetry thing and

get a little applause and validate myself everyone's like i want you to laugh everyone burst out laughing because it was supposed to be sad um well that's so stunning i feel really i just feel great do we have any tips that for people we've got questions saying how do i become confident how did you get your sense of self i know we've touched on it but it's like do we have any practical tips well let's give one one each how did you get your sense of self well i haven't even got sense of self but i can grow your confidence what's that like it's like i can fix a broken bone in a heartbeat but growing them back it's like i can grow your confidence um

completely yeah i've mentioned this before but it's having like a proof list of things people have said to you and i've mentioned this before on the podcast i don't know when but something that i think is so stunning is creating a list and it's the thing of you'll find the evidence of what you choose to believe create evidence for yourself so you can believe that like change what you're believing if you're believing oh my god that person looked at me and they thought I was ugly there's no evidence there write down get a notes on your phone write down every single achievement you've done things people have said to you oh my god I love your skirt write that down I love your skirt yeah all of these things and before you know it you will have literally a load of evidence that

you can choose to believe that's my they grow your confidence from there just make your life easy rather than harder so true yeah i love that yeah yeah make it easier to find the evidence well that's kind of partly mine mine was just stop fucking around i feel like i got confidence and like a sense of self when i just thought well i'm just just fucking around i feel like i got confidence and like a sense of self when i just thought well i'm just just gonna stop fucking about like i've got a choice i can either have a good happy life or i can be fucking miserable what do i want yeah and focus on yourself either i just kill myself yeah or i just have a fucking good time and obviously it's not that fucking easy like not everyone's born into situations that we are i think we do have a

lot of choice in life i also think there's i've been doing this recently this is really morbid and really bleak and there's and i know there's gonna be a group of people that hate to hear this and hate that the podcast is ending like this yeah go on remind yourself that you are going to die yeah no love it you're going to die like that is definite and i know that's depressing for some people, but it's also very stunning. Like- It's liberating. You have one, one shot. Do not miss your chance to blow. So literally you can choose to live that one life before you die. Also, you don't know when that's coming.

You don't know. Get your head in the game. So you can either worry about, oh my God, I should be a size eight. I should be a size eight. Oh my God. I hate my fucking eyebrows. I don't fucking know.

Or you can just think, fuck that. I've got shit to do while I'm here. Like I want to have a fridge that has a fucking ice dispenser. You can fucking go get one. Have you ever done that thing where you, I see people talk about this a lot, where you look back at an old like picture of yourself, for example, and you're like,

why did I hate this picture? Cause I look fucking great. Yeah. Or, you know, I've seen girls do this a lot. I'm so fat, I'm so fat. And then years later they get bigger and they're like oh my god why was i so hung up on calling myself fat when i was really skinny then it's like if only you just enjoyed your time with your life and your body however it was looking

you could have enjoyed your years rather than looking back and now you can see it for what it is oh and you're still miserable you've been miserable the whole time stop fucking about it's like have you ever seen those videos of 80 year olds give their younger self advice or advice that 80 years yeah every single one of them it's like don't fucking waste your time thinking about oh my god that boy didn't like me that person said i was ugly that person thinks i was stupid wear the bikini apply for the job sing in public do the whole thing do the most embarrassing things you can start a podcast i just think it's like do all the most embarrassing things you can do and laugh in your grave when everyone else is bored in their graves all their little ghosts ghosts like oh my god i wish i was thin though haunt them haunt

them all haunt all of your pedophile teachers dreamy dreamy oh my god that's when i've self-actualized do you know what that is haunting your pedophile teachers it's kind of like magnus leave my bumblebee alone oh my god god, you haven't seen Matilda. I just realised it's like... No, but I know the reference. That's kind of what I aim to be in life. Yeah, completely. Well, thank you so much for listening, guys. Yeah, genuinely. Thanks. Thanks, thanks.

Sounds like I'm joking joking but i've actually never been more serious like thank you so much from the bottom of my heart never be more thankful this is our thanksgiving and we're thanking you big time oh big time we have reparations to pay you guys oh big time so leave us a review on apple we say it every time leave us a review on apple if you want us to keep going with this shit um and share it to your story message us your thoughts message us shower us with love we don't ask for much yeah and also we've been getting a lot of people saying like i sent this to my friends and i'm showing all my friends it's like yeah go show this to your friends discuss us bitch about

us we want that yeah love it love it okay thanks guys thanks effie see you next week see you soon bye