Goes Without Saying - how to forgive & move on: fairy podmothers' advice

Episode Date: July 2, 2023

sorry we're late we had to pack our emotional baggage <3join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukspeak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. And we've been gone for a little while. Only a little while. A week. Because we've had some mayhem. Hijinks ensued. The chaos was chaosing.

But we're back. We're giving just lovely kind of general life advice. We're talking about self-soothing and kind of taking care of yourself having your own back especially kind of having your own back as a young woman in this disgusting infuriating world speaking of being infuriated we talk a lot about anger and finding it hard to find forgiveness in relationships even though you're desperate to move on. It's tough, okay? We're here for you. Enjoy the episode.

We want to keep you company. Hope you're having a great day. Speak soon. Perfect. Oh God, I was going to start in with the whole goes without saying. We haven't heard from us in a while. No, this is quite weird. Okay, so we kind of need just to talk about what we're doing right now.

Yeah. We're recording on a phone together in the same room in person we're real life people we're also putting this on tiktok like we're streaming this right now so it's like is it called streaming we're live on tiktok right now which is putting the pressure on which we've just done to ourselves we'll get used to it yeah i think we will. It's basically, so there's been a whole fucking like dilemma going on. There's been ups and downs over the past. Sorry we haven't been here, basically.

Yeah. I hope you've been assuming the worst because it really has been. The worst. The worst has happened. The worst has been actualised. So we've all been manifesting and the worst finally happened. You might have seen on TikTok,

again, I don't know why i'm such a tiktok queen at the moment i spilt matcha all over my laptop broke it recorded episodes that we had ready to go went down the drain along with my hope and sense of beauty in the world um so they were gone so we were kind of held up i've had a whole nightmare i've just been on holiday with a guy that i was seeing it didn't work out really i think how either of us kind of saw it going so i've been not sad i've been okay but also a bit sad so i've come to wing's house just to like get out just to be out of the house as a bit of a kind of ishy ish breakup place to be and it's been really nice but i didn't bring my microphone, like it's actually been a bit mental.

So we're up and down, we're up and down. And we're basically just going to do a really easy, breezy, nice, chilled recording advice episode, which we did previously record, but we're just going to go for it. We literally did. And give you something. Something. Anything. We don't know what the quality is going to be like on this as well because it's on my phone.

Let's just pray to the gods. We were kind of having a funny conversation yesterday where i was like because we were kind of umming and ahhing of like can we record today like can we record and like get something out and i was saying like if you listening if you were there like overhearing that conversation i could feel you urging us to be like yes just do it like you can make it work like record just make it work so that's what we're doing we're making it work it's working so stay or you can go but we're here to keep you company let's see how we go yeah we're gonna try not to talk over each other as well because usually because we record on two different phones no two different microphones and laptops in

different places on this earth we can like section up the audio and like if we talk over each other to kind of move it we don't have the option now so we're just going to try not to the edit's going to be slightly different it's just almost like go it's very raw i've also because we're live on tiktok just to make it extra hard for ourselves just to be fun we thought we'd do like a live recording session so we're currently live on tiktok and so my phone where i would normally be reading responses from listeners i've had to write down analog style on a piece of paper remember those good old-fashioned piece of paper pen and paper the first question first kind of dilemma first like advice we're doing wait should we just take a breath first of all let's just take a breath because i almost feel like we're going in so fast

i'm seeing my head how long we've been going for three minutes like let's just like a minute right we just because we're live on tiktok we don't need to be fast we can are you feeling i was just feeling a bit 100 miles an hour right i've taken my breath we gotta make this last for an hour let's not blow our load let's not blow a load right definitely collect the load right should we get straight in? Yeah, let's focus. First advice. This isn't obviously going to be any good. So the advice from us is going to be terrible.

What? I think we've made it pretty clear. It's Dear Reader times. We don't have really a hold on much in this life. So let's go. This person said, how to deal with anger once people have apologised and it's no longer quote unquote fair to be upset still? Great question.

It's a big one, right? And we don't want to blow it. We don't want to give too much here of our personal lives. No, we don't. I think it depends whether you accept the apology or not. Someone can apologise and if you still have anger, it probably means that you don't accept the apology. It's like you can say, oh, I'm really sorry about that.

Okay, if I still feel anger towards that, then I probably don't buy it. That's what I was going to say. It's not enough of an apology. What are the conditions to accept an apology? I guess is my question. I think I need to feel that it's sincere, that the amount that they've apologised,

like you can't, you can be really sincere, but if you kind of blew up my house and then you say, voldemort literally there's nothing there afterwards so you know what i forgive you it's not fair to be upset with lord voldemort and if he just says i don't know soz yeah i'm not gonna buy it but also it doesn't feel like an equal proportionate apology like if you um spilt my tea and you were like oh sorry i'd be like oh it's right like i'm not gonna hold any anger because i feel like the sorry was appropriate for the action proportionate

but if you blew up my house and then we're like oh god sorry about that it would be a bit like yeah i still am angry you know what my favorite thing to do is in in life is to ask people when they apologize i say what are you sorry for genius it's a great one to ask a boy as well what are you sorry for yeah because i love to know that we're understanding what you've done we're on the same page about the wrongdoing because it's almost like you could say sorry because you see me upset but are you sorry for the principle of this x y and z whatever you've done i also feel like a lot of guys do the sorry. And what they mean is I'm sorry that you feel bad.

They don't mean I'm sorry for my actions. I've done something. Oh, I'm sorry generally about this situation. I definitely think I've experienced that with a lot of guys where it's like, oh, sorry. Like, I feel bad about this situation. But do you also I feel like inherent in an apology is the idea that they won't do it again you can't say sorry yeah for the same behavior with the intention to repeat it that doesn't make sense if you're saying sorry I think it means sorry

I've learned from it I'm not gonna do that again that was a one-off yeah that was a slip-up I'm so sorry like I'm not gonna ever intentionally blow up your house again or i'm not gonna spill your tea again you would hope yeah yeah oh sorry yeah sorry i was really late to something but i'm also going to be late to it the next time i meet you that's a pet peeve i have you ever like it's interesting to be the person who's saying sorry and you know that the person that you're apologizing to like i get it you want them to be the person who's saying sorry and you know that the person that you're apologizing to like i get it you want them to buy the apology because you are sorry also like feeling sorry is a horrible way to feel however do you know what i mean like you're feeling sorry and guilty and like sad that you've done something wrong and like made someone upset and like you

feel sometimes shame or like really like frustrated in yourself of like why have i done this horrible thing you feel bad i'm sorry i feel bad i think sometimes the shame and like the kind of like terror the people the discomfort that people feel in their own guilt outweighs how much they care about seeing you upset the impact of what they've done they want to get out of the horrible feeling more than they want you to not have experienced it yeah but that's why it's like trying to save their own skin an apology only means so much shit like it can only mean as much as they don't want to hurt you like it if you can see through an apology that it is just a way to undo the shame and the like embarrassment that they feel over

having done that to someone also an apology I don't even know like what's the time in your life that you've apologized to someone and have you ever apologized to someone and not meant it um yeah probably yeah because it means that really you don't particularly give a shit yeah there's so many times what I've said sorry kind of to your parents yeah it's almost like conniving children it's to an adult that's demanding an apology from you when you actually don't think it's just that you have to apologize it's like oh you learn from an early age that it's your life will be easier if you learn how to say sorry convincingly they know you're lying but you've said the right thing well it's also kind of is why watching kind of the younger generation start to become parents

becomes interesting and they start doing like really like intentional like parenting like soft like nurturing parenting where they're trying to develop really consciously some level of like emotional intelligence and like someone to be quite literate in their feelings and like being able to express your emotions because i think for people in our generation it was quite common for our parents to kind of yeah demand an apology yeah without creating any sort of like context or reasoning for the emotion and like the significance of what's actually happened there and i personally think and i'm sure my parents won't mind me saying that i feel like they were the kind of people that

couldn't wait to brush something under the rug so it is kind of the idea of like as soon as you say sorry sorry sorry apology accepted i'll wait for the recording also when you touch it it's gonna go boom every time probably sorry if i've been bumping the it. Also, when you touch it, it's going to go boom. Every time. Probably. Sorry if I've been bumping the thing. It's all right, we can edit it. We can't. No, it will be edited to some degree.

Yeah, I know that my parents, and I think a lot of people in the slightly older generation, are really always looking forward, really looking forward to sweeping things under the rug and something that I think I prioritise and something I think you prioritise and i think lots of the younger generation are learning to prioritize is the idea of like it's maybe more important to me to feel like we've both been able to air out our feelings understand exactly what might be you know not nice to do what is it that

has upset someone like what how much do i value this relationship like yeah what is the real shit behind whatever argument or like horrible conflict we're having yeah because i don't just want a meaningless apology i want to go if you can't tell i want to go in deep i want to go in deep and understand why i'm hurt why you did what you did why have i done what i've done and come to a mutual place of like reasoning and compromise and that actually isn't easy no and i get why my parents would love to sweep it under the rug because it feels easier in the short term but long term you're making these incremental moves in the wrong direction

which we keep talking about the moves and then you just get fucked up i feel like i can i just completely agree and i think you're taught that at like nursery school and things like that that almost you've just got to jump through the social etiquette hoops of politeness of just like once you've said sorry everything's fine yeah and it's like actually as you can tell from this question sometimes you can say sorry and it's not fine because actually what you did warrants more than an apology it's bigger than an apology and what is it actions speak louder than words talk is cheap here like trust me anyone can start a podcast it's easy as pie it is easy as pie although it's quite difficult we're finding it quite challenging as well it's actually quite

hard but it it is so easy if only it was i'll just apologize and it's fine it's like actually you know what it's gonna take i don't know months say say someone um has cheated on you in a relationship or something like that like a big thing that is notoriously hard to forgive and often is unforgivable in many cases it's like to actually i mean sorry isn't going to quite cut it it's going to be for me to be honest months if not years if not a fucking lifetime if you're going to stay with this person forever of working through and unpacking what why they did that what the fuck went wrong why the apology isn't cutting it time and time and time again and it's basically going to take a load of proving from the other person.

And also just like, to be honest, I don't see how you could really do that without like couples therapy. It takes a lot of work, I think, from both parties. Yeah. Because you can want to forgive someone and not be there yet. Yeah. You can be like actually quite desperate to forgive somebody. Like I want to forgive you.

Yeah. But I'm not there yet. Because like if you think about it in the sense of you can be really hate to throw out words like this traumatized by by a situation and i think if you have really like given a lot of trust and energy and love into a relationship for example and you end up being betrayed that is a huge traumatic event especially if your life is really wrapped up in this. We were talking about Beyonce and Jay-Z the other day. Yeah, yeah. I've been talking about them a lot. Non-stop. Yeah. But the idea that your life can be,

and your sense of self can be really wrapped up in the people that you trust, of course it is, that doesn't make you weak, it makes you human and it's natural like there's a lot of trust going on here and if there are huge betrayals they do take more work than one conversation one apology and someone saying that's okay i forgive you i just think forgiveness actually takes a lot of effort also if the if the crux of an apology is understanding why someone did that really i feel like one of the main things that i want in an apology is one remorse from them i want to see some remorse from them i want to see them suffer i want to see them explain i want to come to an understanding with them and i want to um feel their apology like actually quite viscerally yeah if i then want to move forward with the person like

say it's a friend that i don't give a shit about anymore is that they've betrayed me beyond good riddance anything i want to see those things but i don't need it because i know i'm never going to forgive them but if i'm moving towards forgiveness one of the main things i need to see is what was the first thing i said remorse knowing why and understanding but also with something like a big action like someone's cheated on you you probably not going to come to an understanding of why they did that because they probably don't know why they did that so true so many things lead up to these big decisions like that and sometimes it's not even a decision someone made oh they got swept up they were drunk blah blah blah bullshit bullshit bullshit but it's actually like they can't explain to you

why they did it because they it's under lock and key at the back back back of their fucking mind they've got no clue why they did it before they know it's the next morning fuck they just want to know how they're gonna get out of it they just want to keep it fucking secret yeah they're just hoping it never comes to light but they are oh god i've been watching enough made in chelsea to know that they just want it yeah um buried yeah they have this thing in made in chelsea the boys back this is back in the day my made in chelsea we've seen enough that they just want it yeah um buried yeah they have this thing in made in chelsea the boys back this is back in the day my made in chelsea um still going revisiting if anyone was listening a few weeks ago we're still going well i've actually

kind of stopped now i haven't watched any in a week i think it wasn't good for your health no it wasn't good for my health it's also really not good for my understanding or my relationships with men yeah really because the men on that show are bleak as fuck not trustworthy bleak as fuck they're horrific the way they treat women is atrocious it's kind of sorry it's kind of if you watch too much like crime like documentaries and stuff you start to think like everyone's trying to kill you like yeah which maybe they are and also like that's the thing with it basically in made in chelsea like the older episodes the boys the spencers the jamies of the world they used to have this thing on the show which they would only refer to ever so smallly they would like pepper it in but it wasn't supposed to be on the show but it

was clearly a thing they had in their real life and they would call it the vault and they'd be like so one of them they found out that this girl binky who's going was going out with this guy alex mitten okay and was best friends well one of her best friends childhood friends was a guy called spencer right um turns out she's been trusting her boyfriend and her best friend turns out they had an orgy together with all these girls pretty plot twist holy hell it's a plot twist yeah she's devastated because he's already cheated on her loads she's forgiven him but her friend and her boyfriend being lighter they'd have an orgy two in one and they were like why did you because spencer told jamie and it was like why did you tell him that was in the vault and it's like

this idea of like they have this oh god where it's like it's almost like they all know each other's disgusting secrets but if it's in the vault it can never come to light well this is what's intriguing about kind of betrayal is that kind of in succession if you've seen the show succession boy have i which i recently finished and i'm very happy i watched kind of the idea that people's loyalties expect the unexpected we've been saying today you can change you can change your mind yeah you can change your allegiances very quickly like blink of an eye in the blink of an eye when it comes down to life or death or a situation that you perceive as life or death i.e like social rankings or like happiness

in relationships or whatever it may be people will throw you under the fucking bus very fast all they need is either a new perception or a bit of new information yeah and everything changes yeah it's actually fascinating yeah it is so i do think trust is a very it's almost like i don't think personally we take it seriously enough. I think we don't talk about how painful and significant trust as a concept and a kind of thing in dynamics and relationships. It's so huge. It's everything. People will literally, like you said, carry it with them their whole lives.

And so bringing it back to the question, the dilemma of not feeling like you're feeling good about someone even though they've apologized you're still feeling angry to tie it back my main point my main crux would be it's completely valid to still be feeling angry nothing oh my god yeah something i've been thinking actually i haven't told you this one new epiphany epiphany of the day yeah just like to keep you up to date with my inner workings considering i've been with you all day when did this happen this was yesterday morning i was thinking i was in the kitchen and i was thinking nothing is linear nothing is permanent nothing is linear nothing is permanent yeah i love just two concepts that are just constantly you've been watching interstellar

everything is transcendent actually but nothing is linear yeah everything goes up and down you might feel great with them one day and fucking fuming the next as you should justified absolutely more than justified yeah to be in a little bit of a stinky mood with someone one day and then be like you know what i'm feeling good about it because as well it's not just determined by whether or not they've apologized it's like did your hair go right that day oh it's so much weather nice or like even what i just had i was like oh my god i just need to lie down i just need to lie down and then i was like let's think about what i've eaten today i've had a panic i woke up had a cupcake then i had they're right here and a mini vanilla what is that cupcake it's delicious delicious overmode then i had they're right here and a mini vanilla what is that cupcake it's delicious

then i had a coconut i had a coconut pan of chocolate and then i had a sprinkle donut that's what that's what i've eaten and a coffee and a tea it's a lot of sugar it's and it's like you're actually having a sugar crash you've been playing sugar crash yeah i've been candy crushing yeah like no wonder you feel like you need to lie down it's like tasty he's like delicious great work but it's one of those things where it's like okay so you're not taking care of yourself if i was to suddenly be like i'm just feeling shit right now i'm just being like that would be quite likely considering the fact that you're coming off the back of like your sugar has just spiked and now it's coming down hard the back of a bender unsaturated fats so you should if you had eaten

like a sandwich maybe you'd feel different yeah didn't you sprinkle donut sorry i'm sorry i'm not very good host i just like fill you up on like sugar tea and coffee i love it um i think it comes down to self-prioritization so wanky but it's true it's like take a minute like i think almost as well if you're looking to forgive them almost to make their life easier yeah censor themselves like almost like sometimes we like to protect other people in our lives because we love them yeah and we almost like it's painful to admit that they've been shitty and we don't want them to deal with the guilt and shame that come with whatever it is that they've done wrong yeah it's easier for like everyone involved to just kind of get on with it it's

easier just get over it whatever but that's a lot to put on a person. Yeah. And I think the crux and like the focus for as long as possible should be taking as much time as you need to just make yourself feel good and feel like you've got your own back. Yeah. Because I think as young women, we're made to feel like it's most important in the world to have everyone else's back. Yeah. Whatever that means. in the world to have everyone else's back yeah whatever that means why the fuck would i have some random man's back on the street who's cat calling cat calling harassing sexual harassment i've got his back over mine mental question mark absolutely not so i'm getting a bit making a scene absolutely not i just think no you're raised to just dismiss your own feelings straight away in this world.

Also, the idea of forgiveness is almost one of those things where it's like, oh, just forgive them. Like, that's an easy thing to do. Job done. Oh, I'll forgive you. Fairy pod mother's magic wand. Done. Forgiveness. Like, when you, I feel like it's probably almost like an evolutionary response to know that when someone hurts you and they're a threat, your body must be like, get away from them.

Fuck them. They're a threat to my safety or like my children's safety. Yeah. Whatever my line, whatever your biology is saying, run away from them. So then to make the decision of like, don't know but i see the nuance of it and they've explained it and i choose to forgive them yeah god that's a huge thing to do and i i also think from my experience watching maiden chelsea just because i'm watching a lot of women get wronged wronged wronged wronged wronged and making the decision time and time again almost

quite mindlessly to forgive these people these men essentially i do think there's something to be said for like these are examples of like cheating but it's like don't get back with someone unless you forgive them and i do think once you've made the decision to forgive them it means you forgive them like the amount of times that it's like oh i forgive him because it's easier and they want to jump back into it because it's familiar and safe and like nice and it's and and they want to believe that they've changed yeah while they're having orgies with their friends but it's like you can't can you really bring it up time and time and time again but you did this thing you did this thing yeah but the whole agreement of getting back was the forgiveness and really it is unforgivable

i don't know if forgiveness is a one and done move i almost think forgiveness is something you're working at every day of your life it's like if you're like i have people in my life that i'm working every day to forgive for my own sake yeah like just to get by it yeah i have to come to some level of peace and i don't know if i i don't think i'm ever going to be at a point of being like yeah i totally forgive you like a peaceful thing with it yeah but just coming to a place of peace like almost i don't know if you always have to forgive forgive forgive and i wonder if well it's not a once oh i forgive you and therefore you are always forgiven it's like yeah but you might feel angry the next tuesday exactly and also i wonder if for example two men would be having

this half an hour conversation on forgiveness like i think women are often as we know encouraged to be very forgiving and very um just always naturally to men's shit very lenient to everyone's because you're almost not kind of what i was saying before like you don't even consider your own feelings to be valid enough to like call someone out on the shit that they've put you through it's like it feels like there have been so many moments in my life personally i'm sure lots of people feel the same where it absolutely felt like unbelievably inappropriate yeah to take a moment to acknowledge publicly what someone else made the decision to put me through that felt like i was being a dick oh my god i can't i actually what a fucking world so

basically it's okay to still be angry because i think we'll be angry every day in different ways and that's life also like i do think anger is one of the main tools you have to like getting out of shit situations and like following the things you want to do, because you're told every situation because often you would end up never leaving shit situations like a job, a relationship, whatever the fuck it is, unless there was something that made you angry about it. And it's such a visceral emotion. Quite active. I've used the word visceral twice now, but it is visceral. Anger is something that's like, fuck, that's a very obvious signifier that that is wrong for me and i'm going to use that to get out of it yeah so i think anger is actually quite a power i agree anger's been one of the things i've been using recently that's like to help me in a process

in a process yeah i do think anger has been useful for me in the process of like wanting to romanticize men and things like that and actually it's like you know what let's hold on to some of the bad things that happened and it's like yeah that's that's your ticket take your ticket i think as well like i keep bringing up women for some reason sorry they're the best thing to bring up i keep bringing up men that everyone hates yeah sorry but like i think life would be easier for us as women if we were giving more if we were given more like opportunities growing up to learn how to be angry yeah oh love it because i think we have so much discomfort in our anger well it's horrible it makes it harder to process anything because you don't allow yourself to get angry which means how can you get over it if you haven't even felt

the feelings it's like you've been pushing it away from day one what are you playing at i also think it's like a man knows how to be angry they kind of they kind of can't stop they can't resist you punch something you shout at someone you go for a war literally start a war yeah yeah yeah bit angry might start a war might invade a country but a woman do you suppress it you think maybe it was my fault i feel angry let me make the kids dinner i'll journal about it might talk to my friend about it it's such a quiet anger before you even allow yourself to be like i actually maybe i'm going to act on that anger which is in a way that isn't internal i.e tell someone how i feel doesn't come naturally does it it's just there's a lot to be angry about

here there's a lot to be angry about here we're doing well on this that was nice on a half an hour street wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

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wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Okay, next little dilemma for the very pod one this is to tackle. Yeah. I'm going to tie these two together, actually.

Really nice questions. Great dilemmas to have. First person said, how to be gentle with yourself on a daily basis have you ever heard something so divine be gentle with yourself kind of your new year's resolution i think it is my my be soft with yourself and others it's like let's be soft and gentle and just like calm down lovely second question that i think ties in really nicely how to self-soothe when you're at breaking point over tiny inconveniences oh god don't we know it I actually have some tips for that like

actually like I feel like this past week I've had to make loads of like sort of kind of quite grounding decisions of like okay so let's sort of zoom out of the bubble you're in and remember like life as a bigger thing and like remember who you are and what what's going on who you are anakin in your heart just remember make some just remember yeah i think my absolute number one tip that i've been so grateful for is like the ability to like text my friends I think that is the biggest technique if it counts as a technique of like okay so I need a reality check I need to like soothe myself when I'm like a bit lost feeling text your friends get them I was asking my friends I was asking you send me voice notes of advice please anything you think I need

to hear send it to me. I was saving them and like listening to them in like bathrooms when I needed them. Yeah, 100%. And actually, I feel like it's the absolute ultimate self-soothing thing. It's actually kind of getting other people to soothe you. Yeah, that's true. It kind of is. But it's looking to your resources.

It's like you have people that love you and that have good brains. Good brains. And also when your brain can't be trusted, it's flipping around. And it love you and that have good brains good brains and also when your brain can't be trusted it's flipping around and it can't i recorded myself it's on this very phone that we're recording on now myself a voice memo of me being like this is a mem this is a reminder to yourself you feel like this yeah do not be swayed this is how you feel when you're not insecure when you're aligned with your rose tinted glasses basically because they'll manipulate everything they will and i have gone back to that voice memo a couple times before making like decisions and i've been thinking like this is how you feel

you know it's rosy by bosie can't romanticize this is how you feel this is what's going on yeah trust this voice sometimes what's happening i've kind of been having this conversation recently of like this almost cult-like kind of phenomenon that happens when you're in quite a bad situation you're uncomfortable overwhelmed overwhelmed feeling like you need to get out of it like generally unhappy you can't escape it you're not having a good time right but however you've managed to do it the mental gymnastics you've done by the end of it you leave kind of the first half an hour you're like right i could do that again that was great yeah that was actually it was actually not that bad oh no we had that funny moment when they said this oh that moment in the shop they kind of put their arm on my back like they like me you know

like it was fine it was fine but it's like no it's kind of the forgiveness thing it's like you wanted it to be good you're disappointed and instead of admitting how you actually feel yeah you're gonna censor the situation and run it for a filter run it through a filter yeah that's telling you that actually it's okay and it wasn't okay yeah it was fucked up we've definitely had a few situations like that i mean we've been in a situation like that together where we went to an event let's say and let's say some things it kind of was an event you know and we were objectively having a really bad a really hard time it was really hard it was really challenging we were at our limits and we were overwhelmed we felt like we weren't wanted there we felt like we couldn't leave we felt like

everyone hated us yeah we had no food and water also i don't feel like that often no it's very very rare that i walk into a space and just think oh everyone here hates me i want to leave like that's almost like i haven't felt like that since like school a childhood party like it's a sleep i said at the time i was like it feels very infantilizing because it's like you're expected to be here and perform a certain way and you're not allowed to leave and you're not allowed to vocalize your discomfort you can't leave you'd have to order it there was it was all the horror movie there's no signal no anything really could have happened you're in the haunted mansion and there's no signal it's like that would never happen in real life we were

really trapped in a really hard situation but i was just gonna say we're not hard to please like we're quite easily impressed like we will be having a great time kind of just distract put some crisps in front of us put a movie on literally you don't have to do much to make us feel like we're having the best day ever do you know what would have just gone down a storm in most situations like that a smile cup of tea someone be nice someone just say how are you how's it going it really does take a lot for us to feel like i'm having a bad time yeah and i feel like in a there have been a couple situations but this one that we went to together we were having a bad time yeah we were and just because the last sort of 10 minutes were nice we came out of that like god we do that again that was incredible that was incredible that was incredible and when we got home it literally took

probably about 90 minutes literally a football match wake up and it's like hang on a minute that wasn't right no we didn't want to go back to it but because the last bit was nice we rewrote it we'd rewritten the whole event it's like we had an amazing time that was so like challenging and great but actually skilled authors we are in our minds i just think sometimes you need to sleep on it you need some space before you can look at it with any clarity i would say that's actually my biggest thing for self-soothing is getting a bit of space because i think especially when you're really overwhelmed and like there's just a lot going on you're being challenged in many different ways getting some space getting yourself into the real world yeah fresh air cold air hot shower yeah something to

eat something to eat that's actually crucial you need to have a hot i think honestly before you make any decisions in this life after an overwhelming thing yeah hot meal hot shower is for me a huge one hot meal hot shower i'm gonna boil you alive eight hours sleep if not nine i think for me it's nine hours sleep that i need and then i also need comfortable clothes and one conversation with someone with a trusted person anyone doesn't even have to be about it. Just almost conversation with the bus stop driver. Oh, hey, bus stop driver. Just someone being like, oh, hey, how are you?

Okay, real interaction. Those five, before those five things, your brain is mush. You can't make decisions. No, I agree. I think you need to get out, out, out. Yeah, you do. Before, you're not in your right mind after an event until you've had those things. Don make any decisions it's like are you still in clothes that you feel like find uncomfortable then you're not ready have you slept had like four hours sleep you've just woken up again okay but no you're

not ready have you just been eating crisps and donuts and pan of chocolate and cupcakes not ready you need to have you not spoken to anyone come on like basic basic needs go on the sims and look at the basic needs try and fill them one by one are your bars full if they're not you're in no right mind so true you're in no right you're going my shoe no so so help me out what the fuck i'm fucking starving red plum bob i'm starving there's like gonna be i'm fucking fuming i'm too uncomfortable to do that i'm too uncomfortable to go to work sorry i'm starving there's like gonna be i'm fucking fuming i'm too uncomfortable to do that i'm too uncomfortable to go to work sorry i'm skinned i'm not going like i need some fun in my life i'm literally incapable of fulfilling my human tasks do your homework do your homework do your homework

no i need to watch tv yeah yeah i'm too bored but i think this pulls back to the kind of dilemma about being gentle to yourself is it's actually very hard to actually properly even identify your needs if you fucking hate yourself yeah like it's very hard to be like if you've been telling yourself do your fucking homework do your fucking homework but what you actually need is to like restore the social bar a little bit restore the thing and it says like rejected kiss and you're still doing that or like um failed exam or like whatever the little things are it's like they're not going to do their homework because look at you look in the thing they're still recovering from um the emotional trauma of being a human being the events the negative events of what's going on it's like

you just got demoted terrible terrible news you can't just die i'm sorry to hear that you can't be um the hot dinner's not going to cut it you need to take some time take some time i think something i've really slowly been learning very slowly taking me all of 26 years to learn it no big deal um is like that i don't hate myself finally thank god for that but like it makes everything a lot easier yeah because you can kind of something just happened to this then is it still recording yeah it's still going oh i think maybe the advert just changed maybe weird um it becomes a lot easier to care for someone's needs when you value them yeah you like you oh yeah i want to keep you here yeah i'll feed you i'll wash and bathe you i'll fill you up i'll brush you up i'll take care of

you because i think you're worth being taken care of building that like self-acceptance self-love whatever like all that cringe shit yeah is so important yeah if you want to have like a nice life for the foreseeable future anything else is just not going to cut it it becomes very very difficult to really do anything in life to keep up with social things to fulfill like achievements to like complete like goals that you want to do like oh you can't do anything bigger if you're working with the basis of the bare minimum no you can't the bare minimum because also why would you want to do like oh you can't do anything bigger if you're working with the basis of the bare minimum no you can't the bare minimum because also why would you want to work towards anything anything like like all of the decisions you make in this life i'm bloody darwin today

but all of the decisions that you make are based on preserving yourself to prolong the line of you that's really what you're doing i don't mean to be an evil evolutionist very evil really it's like all the decisions you make are for the better of yourself and your line and your species whatever if you want good things for yourself how can you possibly be looking at the big things or the small things when you're not even concerned with the the you explain right i got lost that's on me that's not on you no i think i almost got lost but you're trying to carry on your lineage right you're trying to keep yourself happy and alive the main purpose of life is to it's up for debate but is to live is to live and continue the life

of humans yeah fair enough i think that can't be argued with well i think i've seen it all anything could be argued with at this point that is i'm lipsticking it out that's all right lipstick everywhere sorry all over my hands look at that messed up how have you done that you mucky pup fucked it up it's quite delightful looking this is this lipstick okay i got it for the name mrs mia wallace oh my god my pop fiction dreams well it is yeah i bought this when i watched pop fiction i thought i will become her yeah i will cut a fringe i love her um i just don't even know what i'm saying should we do another question hang on i had something um this is actually something from the archives one of the lost episodes which i think we should still do this at some point it

was an episode called survival mode colon it was great it was actually really good um and in that episode i had said that i'd been living my whole life really all my living memory really like survival mode like i'm doing the bare minimum to get by make it through the day on to the next like make it through the day on to the next like really actually stripping life back to like the bare bones of life and so now it makes it easier to like myself in that sense because i can look back and be like oh that was what you were doing while you were running on fumes yeah that was literally you running on fumes and you made it through like thank god like it makes it's almost like okay now i can be excited for life yeah because like oh you were able to kind of do these things when you were really struggling yeah think of what you can do and accomplish when you're feeling

good when you're when you're feeling all right and you're not like ah like attacking yourself every day and that is and i think that works for everyone like imagine what you'll be capable of when you get out of your own way and stop hating yourself. Yeah. Imagine all the things that you can do and like all the happiness that you can have when you leave yourself alone. Yeah. Let yourself live. Let yourself live. And that's a real.

That was real. And that's why they pay us the big bucks. Realize, realize, realize. Okay. Stunning. I always feel like. Are we winding? We've now done 45 minutes i'm winding i think

we're winding this is what we do at the end we just say are we winding are we wrapping i think we are oh the best time um glad people had a good time deadly special day oh guys it's too much oh i love you i love you i love you zoe delaney i know. I always see your face. Yeah. Shall we wrap this? Because we're going to have to edit this out. Yeah, that's fine.

All of this nonsense. I don't think there's much editing needed. That was perfect. Okay. All right. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks, guys. I think we're winding.

I think we've heard just about enough from whatever that was. Yeah, yeah. I hope this was good. Just something to hold you over. Yeah. It's been nice. I started getting the itch kind of recently over the past few days because we haven't recorded in a while broke my laptop etc sorry to bring it up again sorry to myself for putting myself through that i'm over it yeah i think it was a test from the universe and i've actually handled it quite well you have handled it remarkably well yeah it was quite devastating i cried on the way back from the apple store because he told me it was going to cost like a grand to fix and i've literally i

just bought that laptop like a few months ago yeah yeah no it's devastating it's new it's like i really actually couldn't afford to lose no my laptop like my new laptop it's a lot so sad also sorry now i'm really being self-indulgent but i recently replaced my old laptop i bought my macbook air in the beginning of uni second hand i bought it for like 300 quid it lasted me 300 pounds by the way lasted me i recorded like everything with that laptop only recently bought a new one yeah fucking broke it straight away with fucking matcha matcha diary it's a devastating devastating blow it really was and i cried on the way home from apple because i

just thought there it goes down the drain with steve jobs it's just in the dust also it's like matcha it's like broken by my friend yeah i tried betrayed how dare you stand where he stood yeah how dare you stand where he stood so yeah just something to hold us over but i started to get the itch the other day because we haven't recorded in a while i started kind of having i started saying things and in conversation with just civilians in my life and i started to think in the back of my mind that's a podcast and you need to kind of rein it in a little bit you're getting a bit much it's like that's why you have the podcast you need an outlet oh i need to share these words it's word vomit i can't help myself 100 i've definitely had a few things where it's like i've been i've been learned to be honest i

have been learning lessons over the past week there's a lot to fill in i really have and i i am not ready to fill in i mean i feel a bit but like almost like there i'm learning and i'm learning and i'm learning a lot should we say the word breakup? Yeah, it's a breakup of sorts, of sorts. It's a breakup of sorts. It's the ending of a relationship. Yeah, of like a long distance thing. Yeah. So I'm learning lessons.

And also I don't feel that bad, which is the crazy thing because I thought I'd be really- She's unstoppable girl boss. I thought I'd be devastated, but- Fairy godmother, she doesn't get devastated. I'm learning lessons, so I just feel like there's a lot that a lot to be said that will be said at some point it will be said yeah i can't wait to get back to them like normal yeah same i can't wait

to win oh god i can't wait guys like come here come here it's almost can't wait to be um away through a laptop can't wait to be back to normal in different rooms in different cities almost like i hope this is all recorded oh i hope so i'm sure it'll be fine but this has been good this really feels like back in the day when we used to do she who shall not be named higher three stairs we used to record like this on one little phone both talking into it and we thought pre-covid and we thought that was the best way to record and now we found this much better way it's called facetime isolating the audio on two different microphones yeah so this feels really retro but maybe this will be good it's a different vibe and i like the idea

that people have been able to watch us do it which has been quite fun it feels like a different different experience isn't it yeah so i guess we'll hopefully catch you again very very soon we just wanted to give you a little something just to say hi we're here we miss you more than you miss us for sure a lot more we need you we need you a lot more than you need us yeah um we'll see you soon so if you don't hear from us if you don't hear from us assume the worst should we do the intro yeah yeah who is it do you want to do it or should i oh you can do it okay this is an insight that you're seeing this is an inside normally the intro at the end i was today years old when i realized sephie and wing record the intro at the end okay ready okay