Goes Without Saying - how to handle change & resentment: new character unlocked

Episode Date: May 28, 2023

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And this episode is all about resentment. So if you're feeling some kind of bitterness or envy, jealousy, you know, unsaid things in your friendship group, with family members or just work people, I don't know who you know in your life, anyone on social media even this is the episode for us maybe even us maybe even us we're here to take the shame out of it we're here to talk about all the ways in which society encourages especially women to feel shit about themselves and compare themselves to other people and i think it's quite a wholesome and kind and loving episode we We both get a bit deep at certain points, Wing hits us with some hard truths and it's amazing. We keep it funny, we keep it light. Well, we can't, we keep it medium, medium light, medium rare, you know. Medium rare. So enjoy.

Hey. Hey. How's it going? It's going well. I've got three drinks next to me i've got a tea a coffee and a water i'm ready to go how are you your drink of choice all three drinks of choice which will go first definitely the water then the tea then i probably will leave the coffee are you still on the boiling water just plain boiling water yeah sometimes in the morning early in the morning sometimes i like a boiling hot water you're so that girl i was so um but no lemon no nothing yeah i mean it's it's just bizarre it's so off brand but it kind of is on brand in the way i was saying to you the other day you're quite regal you're quite um a glamour purse you're quite like kind of like old-timey kind of royal woman like you have kind of custard and

like do you know what i mean yeah yeah banana and cream yes you're quite um traditional you're kind of from the wartime yeah no i i do kind of get that you're a wartime starlet oh wow i love that that's what i think you are curly's wife i'm seeing myself as you are curly's wife you are curly's wife all the gcse english girls you are yeah yeah you are you are um how are you all right yeah yeah let's get back um i'm good how are you um good good all right good yeah let's go with that nothing new literally nothing new nothing new um yeah i am good at the moment so good in fact that it's a bit amazing yeah no i just yeah i'm so good at the moment thanks for asking and i really i was saying to my therapist

i was saying to you i've been saying to all my friends i was saying to my therapist, I was saying to you, I was saying to all my friends, I was saying to my boyfriend, I feel like this is the first time in my living memory that I've felt good and like I'm experiencing like a normal palette of emotions for this amount of time. Like it's been, God, how long has it been? Like a month? A couple of months. Yeah. I reckon a month and a half pushing two months. God, I mean, that's a long time it's been a long time of me feeling really really good and like even when I'm bad I feel bad and then I

just feel like it's okay to feel bad and then I don't feel bad anymore I feel like something's happening yeah something shifted here where i'm in such a good phase and yeah i don't know i just i feel really really good so i don't know i almost i'm imagining a past version of me listening and being like well that's you and that's not me i'm never gonna feel good sort of thing i almost thought because i'd never known what that would feel like like I had a therapist say to me before sorry I'm going straight in but I remember an old therapist was like let's get you back on track I think I said this on the podcast and I was like the thing is there is no on track history for me like I have never known the track the track and I are not um connected in any way yeah I'm not acquainted with the tracks so i almost felt like you know

when people would be like oh things pass and like oh if you feel bad like it's not forever and things are temporary obviously like that was not my reality and i'd never known otherwise and potentially you know this could be the end for me and tomorrow will be pit city and it'll all be over and blah blah blah i don't think so but i just almost felt like that kind of idea wasn't for me because that could not be my reality because it never had been but now it is so i don't know if anyone i almost i guess this kind of feeds into the broader episode of the idea of sometimes when you see people doing well it can be really affirming and you're rooting for them

and you're kind of reveling in their happiness sometimes when we see people doing well it feels threatening and we feel a lot of discomfort in the success of others yeah thoughts on that just to lead us in i think first of all i'm just gonna take all of the shame from everyone i'll just take it i'll absorb the shame yes yes yes don't worry guys we've gonna take all of the shame from everyone i'll just take it i'll absorb the shame yes yes yes don't worry guys we've got we'll take the shame on your behalf don't worry about it yeah now it's ours hand it over thank you so much just come through the letterbox yeah empty your pockets of that shame because i think first of all there is no like obviously we'd all rather not feel shit about people's success we'd all rather

just be totally supportive of everyone and feel good and we see someone doing well and that fills us with joy because we're so comfortable with ourselves and all that stuff we'd all want to feel like that but i think that isn't realistic for a lot of people especially a lot of women that have been raised in like a competitive society we've been raised in a capitalist world and also with women there's like inherent competition in a lot of our dynamics so i think if you do feel um sort of a bitterness at seeing someone else's success let's take the shame out of that because that's not going to be helping that's just a fact you felt bitterness about someone's success it's not that bad it's really not that bad yeah it's just

human it is it is literally just a human thing and almost like okay that's not punishable by death that's not a cancelable offense like it's okay to be a bit of an arsehole sometimes yeah my show makes everything worse because it makes it more bitter and more evil and all of the stuff and then you just isolate yourself and you think you're a terrible person all of the stuff rather than just being like oh god when i saw you um win that oscar the other day i don't know who are you friends with um jordan peele i don't know guys get us in these circles i'm sure we've got some nepo babies listening yeah i don't know who your mates are but when i saw you winning oscar oh, I just felt so jealous and resentful and all of the stuff because I kind of want to win Oscar, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's fine. Yeah.

Let's communicate this shit. sometimes when people don't give themselves the permission to admit what they actually want when they see somebody else have it it amplifies that frustration even more kind of if you'd never been honest with yourself about wanting an oscar because it feels so out of reach and for i'm sure lots of legitimate reasons but also out of reach yeah it feels out of reach yeah i'm sure it does but you know if we've never given ourselves permission or this room to try at things um then when somebody else ends up getting things that we haven't even been able to admit to ourselves that we wanted that fucking stings so bad i always say to seffy as well like when i am kind of in a bad way i'll think to myself it's a bit sick in the head i think but

i'll imagine that seffy started this podcast with some other i'll think to myself it's a bit sick in the head i think but i'll imagine that sephie started this podcast with some other girl from uni and like it's not me do you know what i mean like just some random girl at uni and like now i know that those two girls who i went to uni with started this podcast and it became so cool and it's like god i would want that i would want that like and it really brings a fire out in me of like oh wait no it is you surprise you did do it yeah don't worry it's all good like no need to panic kind of really like a harsh prank on my soul it is a hard but to kind of live through how would i feel if this wasn't mine yeah yeah and just separate yourself from your own life a little bit because we've spoken before

about the bias against ourselves and the idea that spoken at length at length and the mental crusher and kind of like oh that's a huge achievement until you are the one who achieves it and then suddenly you have all these reasons to discount it like oh we only achieve that because like i overworked myself and you know it's not actually real or that was just a fluke like i didn't actually achieve you know like all of these reasons why suddenly when it's you with the achievement it must be meaningless yeah um we're a bit fucked up aren't we we are a little bit there's also a thing i've been seeing a lot i've seen this like i don't i guess in different sort of pockets of the internet for a while now and i think it's really true and it was like listen to

what you are jealous of like when you feel an emotion of envy or like bitterness or sourness towards something pay attention to what that is because it's probably not directed at that person or they don't deserve that thing yeah it's probably just you want some that's what you want you want to love that thing you probably want it so if you listen to the fact that you feel jealous every time that someone gets a good grading exam you probably want to get a good grading exam you probably want to work hard and fill an achievement or whatever it is if you feel jealous that of every single girl that you see that um i don't know is wearing a bikini that would be something i would be jealous of all these girls are wearing bikinis oh i'm so jealous of them i probably want to be able to do that and i feel frustrated that i can't do that

even though this year even though she can't living in she's killing it she's a great year yes yeah yeah living in bikinis but that would be something that i would look at and be like god i feel shit i feel bitter and envious of these girls that can do that because i want so desperately to be able to do that comfortably and actually it's like oh my god that's then a signifier that it's nothing to do with these girls it's something to do with the bikini that's sitting at the bottom of your fucking shelf and you're fucking under your bed that you haven't worn and you feel guilty they haven't worn it because you can't do it like yeah look at the things that bring up that strong emotion because you have a strong hook on those things yeah and also there's

two things i want to say first thing also the idea that kind of what you were just saying of like if someone does well in an exam that means you want to do well in an exam or if someone's wearing a bikini it's because you want to wear a bikini i think the bottom line the crux if you will is you want to feel love because you feel like you know when you do well in an exam you get love and praise and validation for it and when you wear a bikini you get love and praise and validation from it and feeling a sense of i think well i think you would feel good in yourself when you are able to live the life that you want to live i.e wearing what you want getting good grades doing whatever 100 i almost feel like it's like look at the specifics though because i agree

that basically it all comes down to you just want to feel like a love validation yeah that's accepted by your community but i think look at the specifics i don't mean um you see someone's um avocado on toast and then it means oh you want avocado no no you want to kind of nourish your body or blah blah blah like i think look at the specific ways like if it is academic excess academic success that you are jealous of then maybe you feel a lack of sort of achievement working hard like a drive towards something like i think look at the areas that that shows up in your life i agree but then i think they all will bottle down to you don't love yourself enough in that way everything everything the bottom line the crux yeah

honestly the only thing what's my crux oh the only thing that's real in life is love i stand by that and i've been laughed out to how many a time for that guys but it's true sorry to say this is a cringy old world from years of doing this podcast now i feel like we have done every topic that there is we are still going through them all of them every single one of them all these themes in life really does just come down to love every single one of them i think as well that's how social media feeds so much into this whole conversation because i feel like as much as people have always and i think young women have always been like comparing themselves and am i on the right track this person's doing this this and this and they're following a certain path and i'm not doing that blah blah blah yada

yada yada some may say i feel like social media obviously puts some sort of lens whether it's a rose tinted lens or not i think undeniably so put some sort of lens on other people's lives and allows you to dip into them as you please and for me personally i dip and dip and dip until there's no dip left in the fucking bowl like i can't help myself but chips and dip all over the place until i feel ill at my own life that's how i felt in my life do you know what i mean like i've had so like i look back and i'm like god i spent like especially in the pandemic i think that feels like a real time like early pandemic of like feeling really deeply insecure and so confused in life and so frustrated at my own life and all I had to do really was scroll that was all I was

doing personally yeah I'm sure everyone else was like crocheting and like having an amazing like training for a marathon you know like blah blah blah i wasn't i was laying in bed scrolling all day well with the introduction of tiktok at that point as well it was just like look it's it's hell you've created hell for me at the best time ever yeah yeah the perfect time for me just to sit at home and just go through tiktok yeah yeah but i i know i've said this before i feel like i have to be careful with like what i look at because i know i just get lost so easily and actually i was saying to stuff yesterday i've started playing candy crush i couldn't believe this i mean actually and you say i'm wartime you are wartime you are i'm early 2000s nostalgia i'm like a bit too old like i'm almost

like pushing the boundary of like get a grip like blah blah you are in a ball gown floating down with shortbread and like do you know what i mean like that is you like i don't know if people will get that because you're also so like young and like kind of spunky girl woohoo crazy but like like do you know i mean you're so fun and like youthful but there's we were talking about your handwriting the other day your handwriting looks like it's the fucking declaration of independence being handwritten in front of your eyes like it's so old-timey and like regal it's um written with a quill almost it really is it's like imagine you're going through the fonts on kind of microsoft word

exactly yeah the ones that are like the most fancy of fonts it's fancy font it's fancy font for sure and you are a fancy font kind of gal um but i've been playing countercash anyway because sometimes when you're feeling bad for me personally when i'm feeling bad i don't necessarily have the energy to be like right i'm gonna sit down and i'm gonna read or i'm gonna sit down and i'm gonna watch a film or i'm gonna go out and i'm gonna go for a walk i kind of need to stop my mind from thinking i need to like cut through the overthinking vibe and if i don't have the energy to necessarily do that in like a perfect pristine or like in a in the normal ways that my mind would normally go to switching the app

from fucking instagram to candy crush is very easy to do and then i spend five minutes on candy crush and then i can go about my day it's kind of needing to reset throughout the day like especially in the pandemic i feel like when we were having a shit day and then it's like right it's three o'clock i felt shit all day i'm gonna get in the shower get redressed yeah get like i'm gonna do my hair again i'm gonna do a whole thing and get myself ready as if it's 8 a.m because i need to reset I have something to say about that just really briefly. Go on. I was on TikTok.

So I redownloaded TikTok recently. Big move. Haven't had it for three years. I'm back. I'm loving it. With the timer set. With the timer set. She's ready to go.

Yeah, she's fully equipped. It's 11.12 right now. We just missed 11.11. And I've already used it my 15 minutes so that's how addicted i am i'm in i typed in when i first got to tiktok i was like i'm gonna type in sephian wing like i want to see what's happened in the two years i've missed it like has people been have people been making tiktoks of us turns out they have they have i typed in sephian wing and oh my god there was this one girl i know what you're gonna say yeah talking and she was like

i was listening to this podcast the other day and they were saying like reset your day at sort of 3 p.m if you're having a shit day just get in the shower and all that so i'm gonna do that and it was like god there's a girl like taking advice concerning deeply concerning my boyfriend came home from work one day and was like look what i've seen and he had like the tiktok tab open with sephian wing in the search bar and was like going through all the videos it's really nice it's really really cute but that would be the advice i think yeah no the problem is the problem is when you type in sephian wing then it starts getting to kind of um greek mythology stuff i've noticed like it's there's definitely some kind of well there's

sephie's wing sephie's wing is something kind of sort of dungeons and dragons dark mythical yeah there's something going on yeah who has wings yeah there's something because they keep saying it's a dark wing sephie's dark wing was blah blah blah and like things like that and it's like what's going that doesn't sound like goes that saying to me. That's not my ghost that saying hashtag not my president hashtag not my gws not my nick. Yeah. Wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap.

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and this is a field guide to gay animals a podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part. Find A Field Guide to Gay Animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere aks.com something i put in in the little pitch of this episode literally a little sentence was about do you remember this going back to early 2000s stuff the idea of a duff do you remember this i have so much to say about when you when i saw that you wrote the daft yeah i was you burst into flames yeah when i went to go see that movie every single person that was like have

you seen the daft it's literally you and i was watching it and my sister was like oh my god you are the daft like not as in like i've never seen the film so well i'm a bit scared it was kind of she is she's a cool girl i think the daft okay good it was like i would rather sit in my room watching japanese cinema okay she's kind of manic pixie she's manic pixie dream girl sort of vibe obviously the name the daft stands for designated ugly fat friend is horrendous but the actual girl in the film is cool super cool girl you would want to be the duff really but i do think that's ballsy i guess you know times were different but to say to your friend you're definitely the duff no no it was said in a way that's like i hate to tell you

this but go and see the movie the duff and the girl is you like it was said in a way of like it it's um it's crazy how much it is you. I have to watch it. I have to watch it. So how do you feel about that then? What's your relationship to that? Well, because the girl in the film is so stunning and cool. It's like, do you know what it is? It's just a real example of Hollywood being like...

Yeah, they couldn't bring themselves to cast anything but a kind of gorgeous, white, thin actress. I don't know who it is, but. Her name is Mae Whitman, I believe. Nice. I'm just assuming everything about her, but I'm assuming she is thin, white, pretty. She's like, yeah, she's an absolute, like she's a stunner. Yeah. Like she's pretty much society's ideal of the girl.

Maybe she's like a bit shorter. have no idea but she like she's a so i think it's just a classic example of like we're gonna make a film called the duff and it's about the designated ugly fat friend already i'm there are some problems in that there are some there are a few alarm bells ringing yeah i'm hearing can we hear the bells yeah let the bells ring and then you go to see it and it's like wait this girl is more is prettier everything yeah is um not an ugly and fat person she's actually prettier and thinner and all this other than everyone i know like it's almost like what is going on here she's the designated ugly fat friend and how old were you when you watched that i don't know i think we're probably about 14 15 oh that's quite old maybe i'm not sure i thought it was a bit more early 2000s can i have a look

just for reference i haven't watched it in years i would actually be intrigued to watch it again but i remember even at the time thinking god are we like is this what we're doing people were calling you the duff in 2015 you were 19 years old i'm actually now i'm getting annoyed the duff they're not saying look in our friendship group group okay okay okay okay right right they're saying you're that character that you're that character i was like god she's handling this well jesus i was like god this is okay okay okay okay got you got you got you got it yes if people were saying that that's what they would yeah okay right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay you were 19 that still that feels really recent for a film like that to come out that is actually no they

were saying go and see the duff the girl in it is literally you like it is you yeah just there's a scene where she talks about everything that she likes and it's literally a list of everything that i like it's your personality oh okay this is um this is you they're based on you yeah yeah but no no it's not polite like it's not a nice thing it's like um it's pushing the boundary isn't it it's not going to mean girls regina george is literally you it's go and watch this film it's called the daf and the daf is you like it's not great jesus probably offended me at the time but then you go and see it and it's the most stunning girl in the world well that's good yeah and also it's like look i can't deny my list of hobbies that you've just written now no no it's undeniable you can't deny at some point we have to acknowledge but

yeah i remember thinking at the time like this film shouldn't have been made like this is um bad for women and to be honest i'm quite surprised that i'm not surprised that women took these parts but it's like look the women involved in the making of this and stuff like come on what's going on there the daft are we like i don't know i really i don't know why in my head the daft was like a real 2004 kind of movie like a real early 2000s i don't know if that was when people were using the phrase i'd never heard the phrase before i'd literally never heard the phrase before in my life but i remember being confused because yeah i'm confused so stunning and it's like she's you're confused yeah i'm fucking confused what's going on yeah i think that is the perfect example of again something we were just talking about how other people's kind of

light and wonder and like niceness is a bit hard for people to stomach sometimes and they really want to bring us down i think there's a level of you know just between us guys just between the group just off the record just you know within this little circle that we have going great circle by the way love you all let's keep it going there's no doubt let's hold hands no no way there is that to be honest there's no there's no anywhere i'm not seeing any doubts yes it doesn't exist no this fuck this i get annoyed now no i'm getting annoyed actually it annoys me no yeah i'm getting a bit riled up because it's almost you can see the it's so by design you can see the intention by pulling that into like this kind of summer smash hit blockbuster movie yeah you're

giving all of these women the perfect way to hate each other and then open them up and steer them running into your arms ugly white man and then we talk about oh there's competitive female friendship there's resentment there's bitterness it's like yeah because you make movies called the fucking daft is that a joke i'm getting annoyed yeah i'm getting annoyed why is everything in this nice circle in this nice circle let's go in this nice circle there's there's you know no shame about the way that we feel sometimes guys we have little you know bad moments and we do things that don't necessarily feel aligned with like our beliefs and our deepest kind of core values and our true essence as a human being and all of this shit we make mistakes we say silly things maybe you

called someone the duff whatever we'll move on okay we'll move on i forgive you guys stephy's friends i want to chat poppy's friends i reminded you of that girl and that's pretty crazy it's out of order it's out of order even though i agree no i agree and i haven't seen it she is very similar but it's still rude it's still sometimes people like to push what they can say because they almost think like what no i was only saying blah blah blah do you know what i mean i completely know like for example oh you remind me of blah blah blah it's like we all know that's an offensive thing to say but you are pushing the boundary of what you think you can get away with because it's a bit

under the surface but you're not so clever you're actually you're being a cunt let's be real anyway right so anyway we've all been cunts okay i've been a cunt i'll be a cunt tomorrow i continue to be a cunt i'm trying my best whatever let's take the shame away the shame don't worry we've handled the shame we've packed it away we've sent it off yeah to amazon jeff bezos got it next day delivery right to jeff's door yeah he's got it he's dealing with it now it's his problem and he can take it yeah the world's shame yeah the weight of the world on his shoulders as he should take it yeah there's a package coming for you oh it's on its way it's on its way markie zuckers it's on did i have a did i tell you guys i had a dream the other night about elon musk i did didn't i yes you did when he um he really and he he he was cutting us up he was he was doing a bit of a mary shelley moment well no let's not let's not all right well anyway

anyway basically what i'm trying to say is we're all assholes fine okay there's no shame but now let's spin it i think also we've all been the person probably well i've definitely been the person where i've been made to feel like people in my life don't want to see me happy and kind of off the back of or thriving or being a girl but and just oh my god you're killing it they don't want to see you kill it they want to see you killed maybe not killed but like you know i'm sure your friends like you but going back off what i was saying at the beginning of like you know i'm in a really good point at the moment you know let's not get used to it i'm touching wood but like i'm feeling really good at the moment and i do feel like sometimes people in our lives get quite comfortable with the idea of us being a shell of ourselves or

quote-unquote the duff or someone who you know oh that's okay i don't have to worry about them because you know they're holding themselves back sort of thing or like then no one's interested like whatever blah blah blah and the minute you kind of challenge that or break through that wall like you know there's a huge conversation before about for examples quote-unquote the duff if someone was bigger and lost weight than being treated differently by their friends and notably their female friends in their life i feel like there's a real um i think it's an unspoken thing largely or i feel like it has been an unspoken thing thing largely or i feel like it has been an unspoken thing where people get very comfortable with the idea of who you are and if you challenge that in any way it can really rub people the wrong way and it can be suddenly very abrasive and all you're doing is maybe trying to be happy or kind

of not living to appease them anymore yeah just growing just growing just living as you should yeah it is jarring when people change like because there's also a part of me that thinks god people just never change like there are like there is something in like people do really stay the same their whole lives to a certain extent but then i do think like there has to be room for like yeah i don't know have you ever had it where someone's changed in a way that has like rubbed you up the wrong way slightly that's like oh that is um different and abrasive now well it's hard because i don't know if i have ever felt like oh they've changed i don't actually know if that's ever something i've ever actually thought about the people in my lives i don't think i've really

ever thought like oh they've changed i think sometimes i would more so recognize it as like oh i've never noticed that about them before like oh like i had a kind of moment where someone quite close to me like one of my good friends i don't want to say materialistic but they they were just they there were things that i was reading as like superficial or materialistic or that didn't fit with kind of my identity of us as like these kind of scrappy little girls and that bugged me and i think now that you've asked me i would probably pin that on yeah like that person was changing and growing and evolving and etc etc but i don't know if i'm very i don't know if i have ever thrown out the you've changed have you have you noticed people changing

no i've definitely had it said to me though probably you've had it said to you you've changed i've had maybe oh yeah you have had it said to you yeah and then i've had an apology since like in terms of i haven't changed i don't think no it's kind of what we were just saying of like the fucking minute you tease the idea of liking yourself people are like oh excuse me you've changed well i don't i don't know were you gonna say something then though i feel like no no no take it away take it away take it yeah no i don't think i have ever noticed a change in someone like to be like oh you used to be like this and now you're not like this in a way that doesn't feel like kind of growth or something like that i feel like the only times where it would be like this and now you're not like this in a way that doesn't feel like kind of growth or something like that i feel like the only times where it would be like oh god you've changed is

if it feels like someone has done like a bit of a 180 on something that they really did believe and then it's like oh suddenly it's like oh god you've really changed and it feels like a slight either a sharp pivot or like a bit of a regression of like yes oh i thought you were above that and now you're doing this thing yes i don't know if i've ever really seen that as necessarily like sharp pivot or like a bit of regression of like yes oh I thought you were above that and now you're doing this thing yes I don't know if I've ever really seen that as necessarily like oh you've changed I always thought you were this person now you're not this person but more is just like um oh people are crazy they do crazy crazy things yeah I think I'm more so of the my my mind naturally gravitates in my life to like in in my relationships

I normally think I wouldn't necessarily jump to they've changed I would probably be like oh I had misunderstood them um even if they had changed I think I see it as like oh it was my perception of them that maybe wasn't right for good or bad sort of thing really yeah I feel like it's like no I feel like my perception is right it's just like oh i'm seeing yeah them at that point i feel like it's like it's not oh they've they've changed so much it's almost like they're making a decision that i don't like i just i yeah i don't like that decision because i feel like people never never point out the changes in someone that benefit them they don't point out the changes in someone that benefit them they don't point out the changes in

people that they don't agree with for sure actually just when you were saying that about like i don't really know even what it was you said specifically but i don't know if this would have anything to do with why i might struggle with identifying maybe conflicts and things like that as as a person changing i went through a huge period of change probably the most monumental thing i've gone through in my life and i really hope it's the most monumental thing i go through in life at all but i doubt it is because you know this world it just it just throws shit doesn't it but i would like to think this was pretty crazy and it you know i don't know how much crazier it can get considering i was quite young one of my parents

it was when you were saying like oh i thought you know i knew your beliefs on something and now you've changed quite drastically i think my idea of change and almost um i think how i'm expected to deal with change and how i'm expected to deal with other people surprise surprise i feel like i'm expected to deal with other people by being basically like invisible like yeah just being completely quiet like you can't feel negatively about anything that anyone's decided to do because you don't have a say and you just need to shut the fuck up and i definitely feel like that was hugely amplified if not caused by this huge thing that i went through god from the ages of like 10 to um well still now i guess um where one of my

parents completely changed their whole identity um through a really dangerous destructive abusive relationship changed their their whole way of life their lifestyle their friends no relationship to their family changed where they lived like moved up and down the country changed their religion um had loads of babies everything changed the way they look everything in quite an extreme and dramatic way like it kind of couldn't be more polar opposite i think yeah to the way that this person always was and because that person was my parent it felt very personal that's my whole idea of safety and security in this world being turned upside down and showing me that not only can anything change in a moment's notice but when people love you they can just decide they don't love you that much tomorrow which is so yeah it's not good is it um it's quite rough and I don't necessarily

see it that way at the moment obviously but that was definitely a belief that I internalized at a really young age and so I think now I am still kind of in the people people pleaser sense I'm still working through the idea that i guess other people do make mistakes and stuff because i think i i only really recently have been fathoming that that was my parents mistake and not my mistake for being like an unlovable child for example so fucked up oxymoron oxymoron yeah it doesn't exist horrid henry who do you think i was all right draco malfoy like no i was a lovely sweet little child i mean i really was like a pleasure to teach a star pupil like i couldn't have been better i was a really sweet little thing funny whatever smart

yeah and i was a child a child it wouldn't matter if you were lit if i was a real nightmare child yeah you're a child um so any children listening and i know there are because i've seen you in the stats it's way past your bedtime don't make me pack you up and send you to elon's elon's house give you a fright that will teach you for delving through the realms of the internet that you shouldn't go through but yeah i think i'm i think i maybe have a bit of a thing of not being able to understand that people do change and people do make mistakes and people do fuck up and like aren't inherently more worthy than me because i think i always felt like things were always my fault and maybe that's why i perceive things as oh it isn't that they've

changed or done something that i don't like i've probably just misread it or i you know i had the wrong end of the stick or you know i never should have got that close to them to begin with sort of thing so that's a little bit about me and my trauma hope you don't mind it's beautiful i love every minute of it thank you thank you so much thank you so much for sharing any thoughts on that anything that makes you think of or are we just gonna leave it in the know i don't know if it makes me think of anything i'm just i'm just um absorbing every one of your words as usual okay i feel like also one of the things that you said in there was that it was like i don't know changing every aspect of this person's

life it was very much like it's apparent and it's like you feel like you know them to their core but their core beliefs changed i feel like that's one of the most jarring things it wasn't just like i now don't talk to these people that i used to talk to my friends aren't my friends anymore it's like your core beliefs changed completely 100 that sort of thing must be so jarring because it's like who you are in your essence yeah appears to be missing now and it's like where's the thing so i feel like that is a really um traumatizing um introduction to the idea of change so traumatizing and the idea of trust but it's like if i can't trust you who can i trust after like how kind of wrapped up i was

in the love that i had from you to have that withdrawn and watch you change into something that i really not only do i not recognize you but you're actively sustaining harm towards me yeah what is life then you know like in a real actual like tangible sense what is life though what is life and kind of oh god ozzy you're so cute sorry he just stood up and stretched i have to stroke i have to i've got no choice but to stroke um sorry also i used to think about it as if i used to think about it as if my mum had died and i was living with this kind of weird ghost of her and her murderer like i'm living with this weird kind of zombie of you kind of um the resurrection stone it's like yeah you were brought back but as this weird thing that i don't recognize

and i have to live with your murderer every day that's so dark yeah it was that how you viewed it as a child yes yeah i remember being probably about 14 and thinking i'm living with kind of someone who used to be like a fresh white piece of paper has now been screwed up by someone and chucked in the bin and i just watched the person who did it and now they're living in my house and all i have is kind of this screwed up piece of paper and it's like no matter how much i try and unfold the piece of paper and smooth it out you're gone how do i get you back like you're always you're always going to be crumpled up and torn and you're you're so different you're not mine like you've got someone else's name written at the top bizarre things like had my name tattooed on them got the tattoo removed

like my whole identity oh yeah oh yeah i didn't know that yes you've never told me that before yeah and you i know how you feel about tattoos they're permanent sephie's scared of tattoos guys and rightfully so petrified that's a story for another day so if he's legitimately scared of that story yeah it's horrible no yeah and i was probably about 14 people make decisions that absolutely blow my mind every minute of every day me too me too but then look this is why as well i think what's feeding into me being in a good place at the moment is that i'm really able to look back and be like god these are the things i was my trials and tribulations i've been tried and tested meanwhile i've i've accomplished some things i've finished school i went to uni i've started an amazing podcast like i've actually despite

everything and i think something that brought me a lot of closure i don't know why i'm really opening up now cracked me wide open like this really kind of wasn't the episode for it but whatever no i think something that really helped was kind of the closure i got of like looking my mum in the eye i know i was saying my parent earlier but did you guys get it right who did you guess did you guess my dad or did you guess my mom did you get it right 10 points if you got it right it was my mom guys she's insane um something that gave me loads of closure was recently over the past few years i looked my mom dead in the eye and i was like despite everything that you did i succeeded your one job yeah your one job was to keep me here safe and well and love me and you fucked up

yeah no you didn't do that but i succeeded in spite despite everything you set me up for yeah this is all me and kind of in the like didn't go to private school you know like my parents didn't pay me to get anywhere i've fucking groveled and scraped my way through and i'm fucking proud of myself and i'm owning it and maybe your achievements don't look exactly like that but something recently i've been getting people to do i've been getting sefi to do it i've been getting my boyfriend to do it everyone in my life suddenly has homework from me which is to write down not like affirmations like i am lovable i am beautiful i am kind but actually like write down really specific things of like one of mine was i got 100 in my higher education access course and i didn't even try it was in brackets like i like write down really specific achievements and i want you to write 30

of them i don't want three little achievements scabby little things absolutely not no I need I need 50 by the time the day is out right like I need a lot because when you go into it thinking just write down a few things good things I've done it's like no no no I need a huge list because then they start really not you start getting a bit crazy you start seeing yourself in a whole different life and you have this actual real life evidence-based stuff that you can use to shift your kind of self-critical mindset that you may have if you're anything like us i've done mine but your friends might not like it your friends won't like it yeah i've done mine i don't know

if this is correct but i've done mine in kind of a graph so it's been like um so it's not a graph like a table sorry okay it's like um on one side there's like all the bits of evidence and then i've gone with the adjective that kind of describes that so i've been like i blah blah blah trustworthy exactly loyal like that is that kind of the vibe yes that's perfect because well that was what rachel said to me the high in my team queen rachel my current therapist amazing um because what i'm liking about it is very evidence some like real it's very tangible it's not like kind of waiting for the mindset to shift it feels like i've never known anything to actually like physically be

rewiring my brain in this way i almost didn't believe that was possible for me kind of as i said like i've never i can't remember a time of not feeling really like you know my brain was bad um but yeah the idea is that instead of just writing down like i said like i'm lovable i'm beautiful all of these things you're getting those adjectives in response to the evidence that you've put down so you can't argue you can't fucking argue with it then if someone for example give me something an evidence for you i don't know let me get on my thing oh nice well like for mine for example what i just said about doing well on my thing i got 100 and i didn't even try that hard guys i'm not even gonna lie and i'm not gonna lie people found it exceptionally hard and i thought it was quite easy i do have a brain in here somewhere i attributed the trait the quality a positive

quality from that might have been intelligent or um yeah let's do intelligent and it's like i might not always feel like an intelligent person but i have some evidence here that i yeah that says i am go on tell us some things about you this is nice this is random i like this is the thing with writing this stuff it's like random shits comes to you i bleached my hair peroxide blonde after years of being brunette against hairdressers advice amazing that is iconic that is so funny against the advice of the professionals they said do not do it good for you good for fucking you and what was the trait that came out of that sorry risk taker you are a risk taker you are a risk taker big time i would encourage everyone to start writing down the random good things that you have and that you've done and little bits of

evidence i just think it's so lovely um should we wrap then i think let's end it here what a nice episode what i did not really know what direction this is was going to go in but i like the direction it's gone i think quite selfishly i've turned this into i.e the last episode bit of a trauma dump no i'm joking i would never call it that no offense if anyone listens to what i just said and like thinks negatively of the episode or of me you don't deserve to listen and you can go fuck yourself please god um i also think a lot of people relate to that like a lot of people that we get like who doesn't have a complicated relationship with their parents i think a lot of people will be able to see bits of themselves in that and be like yeah that's i think it's

helpful oh well i hope it's helpful oh well i hope it's helpful guys i hope you're all okay i hope no one's 14 and crying i hope you're all right um i also there's been some shocking moments in this episode we've both given each other a jaw-dropping moment with the daft you said when i when i got but a little bit misunderstood and no one look i wouldn't be friends with anyone if they were like out of our friendship group you're jesus we were just having the conversation before we started recording as well of like this is kind of what i've really fueled the episode was me saying like sephie has such a kind of energetic free spirit beautiful light essence that people can't help but want to

bring her down and it fucks me right off anyway anyway i do think there's people say things to me that they would never say to other people rude things and i'm rude i i agree with you that i think disrespectful there's something about me that people really do want to be like well she's got a welcome to the real world she's got to get in the real world like people want to yeah bring you down take you on the shore yeah it's not like i'm that fucking high anyway no you're not i can see no you are you are you're high as a kite but you haven't always been high as a kite and even when you're not high as a kite i think it's kind of the sense of self and the confidence that you don't even know that you have that you move through life with that people are like why does she get to feel like that like no like life is miserable and she can't be happy in herself

sort of thing anyway well and the tattoo that was shocking too wasn't it can you not because yeah can you not because you're about to get some seriously harsh words from me and as sweet as i am i can actually be quite brutal yeah no you can when you want to be i can't actually can you can't really can i can't right well let's go yeah if you don't hear from us assume the worst wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th.

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