Goes Without Saying - how to heal: the gatekeep gaslight girlboss era

Episode Date: May 17, 2021

this week we're really ~doing the work~. the internet's wholesome besties (sephy & wing) are back with another wild episode of Goes Without Saying. in this ep, we're discussing productive routes to healing, the issue with codependency, and how to cultivate healthy communication in our relationships. from trusting ourselves to know what's best, to finally acknowledging that our feelings are valid, we're depped but we're ready to talk about it! join the conversation every monday. speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram! you’re invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/BphgYDmb Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Okay, we're doing this. Goes Without Saying, baby, we are back for another episode of Goes Without Saying. Welcome back, and welcome back to us, Sefi and Wing. I am joined by, thankfully, the one and only Seffy.

Hi, everyone. And I'm Wing, and we have been absent. And before we get into the episode, which I think is a great episode, by the way, and I hope you're happy to have us back, I just want to say thanks to everyone who messaged us and said nice things over our week off, if you can call it a week off. It looks, from the outside, it looks like a week off. Week of hell?

From the inside. We were living the life, ice cream lifestyle. We were on the beach. We went to Brighton. Oh my God, I wish. No. No, but let's get into it anyway. Thanks for listening in advance.

I owe you my life. I don't really know where to start. No, I don't even know if I want to start. Kind of, shall we end it now? Shall we have another week? Well, I hope you've missed us. But if not, no worries. That's fine.

Nothing personal. It's all good. It's fine if you haven't. To be honest, I would prefer if you haven't. I'd prefer to know that you've just been so busy and just thriving and just distracted. You didn't miss us for a second. You haven't even thought about Ghost Without a Thing. and we're just a pleasant surprise back again on another monday. no i want you to be groveling. come back. we need to have your wing. i want you to be on the

floor. we need them. we need each other. yeah we do need each other. codependency some may say. some may say. to be honest some definitely say some would definitely say should we explain why we've been gone yeah go on let's hear it from your perspective well should we start let's start from the last episode what happened what went wrong oh my i think i made a joke at the last episode that in the next episode we'd be really hung over but it's like yeah we're kind of still recovering oh my god that was and since then i've been drunk non-stop you you really have i've manifested you an alcohol problem i've honestly developed a drinking problem i've been either oh my god well i've either been drunk and then one day i was drunk and i ate so many weed brownies that

i literally couldn't move for about 10 hours i think you're still recovering now longer than 10 hours even i think my tummy's recovering now, longer than 10 hours even. I think my tummy's still recovering. I've been a little bit ill. Let's not get into it. It's bizarre. God, what an awful welcome back. Welcome back.

I have diarrhea. That honestly, so many things here should have gone without saying. Once again, they're like, I didn't ask. Literally, I didn't ask. I didn't ask. but nice to see you guys anyway yeah so yeah last episode what happened last episode we got drunk and spoke about therapy but i don't know what happened after that it's been a blur i blacked out do you mind me saying that we stopped halfway through we so we stopped halfway through because

i think we got a bit i got a bit triggered basically i'm gonna say we got a bit triggered i got a bit triggered but then that's not why we took the week off no absolutely not it's got nothing to do with it but i feel like we were in a state of like um to be honest so the idea for this episode was that we talk about like healing and communication and healing on your own privately versus how much you can lean on others etc and that would have been a great episode even just off the back of that just off the back of you being upset and us talking yeah yeah but then i took us to a new level we were kind of ready to have kind of this authentic conversation where we'd be like oh i was a bit triggered in that episode and blah blah blah but then shit hit the fan shit hit the fan let's say what do we say i mean what do we say i don't

know what do you think i should say well it depends how much you want to say you you said in the last one you started therapy and yeah so i've been in therapy for a while and i had had therapy before but specifically do you yeah i think this works specifically say whatever you want thanks it's it's our thing hey goes without saying hang on i'm getting a bit spikes mcgee and it looks like my hair's spiking up it looks like i've got a bit of a mohawk going on frosted tips i've had a breakdown you see on the reels that I've got a fucking mohawk. Don't ask questions. She's got a mohawk, I've got a mullet. And we're like, so it's all gone bad.

No, I mean, the mullet would be such a look. No, but I'm picturing like a Robbie Ray from Miley Cyrus mullet. My boyfriend's got a mullet. Did you know that? I mean, it is a look. I haven't seen him in over a year, some may say. No, I know. I know. Some may say. Well know I know some may say well anyway basically therapy fucking hell back in therapy because kind of November things hit the

fan I don't I don't you wouldn't even be able to tell but I was saying before this episode I don't know how I even was record I don't know how I don't know how how you made it through I don't know how yeah don't know how no other words how you're still standing to be honest but basically so now i'm back in like proper regular therapy although my therapist did completely ghost me this morning so not as regular as i'd like but anyway it's all good what happened was basically november came around there was so much going on so much personal shit like whatever you guys know the, you have your own lives. And what came to a head was that over years and years, I had not really realised that actually my situation wasn't just like, oh, I kind of, oh, I was homeless.

And now like I have a sadness that no one can understand. It's like, no, you have complex PTSD. You have a really nuanced, complex trauma. And we're going to unpack unpack it and that was all going really well i think i even said in the therapy episode that i had the best session of my life god i had no idea what was coming god i feel as light as a feather as a fucking feather nothing can touch me oh boy i had no clue and how quickly it goes downhill it really did um to the point where i broke my ring light

oh my god so now my i just kind of snapped my ring light in a moment of hysteria so now i'm kind of harry's glasses wrapped up in tape you literally snapped it in anger oh my god oculus repair and it was one of those things where we're about to record and it's like um wing was freaking out my ring like my ring light's like right okay put everything down put everything down we're not doing this honestly step away from the ring light yeah so we've decided now that we both get a kind of thing once a year we both get to be like no i'm not doing it we get one but also like i wanted to do it like i i love but no you i love it i don't care if you wanted to it wouldn't be pleasant for you lot to just listen to me kind of be, kind of listen to my,

sometimes when I, it's like my insides are shaking. Do you know what I mean? It's like I'm talking fine. Yeah. But my insides are shaking. You would hear me being like, where is she?

What's going on with her? It's just not natural to be going through a thing and then you've got a ring light in your face. So sometimes you just need a week off. Even if it is your mission in life, your love, love, love, sometimes there shouldn't be a ring light in front of you yeah when you've just realized you've got complex ptsd yeah and all this like trauma in you maybe a ring light isn't

the thing to add to the mix i think that does go without saying although here we are adding it perfectly to the mix today so but one week later it's all healed and the ring light's back so that's kind of an overview of where we've where we've been i brought sephie in with me and i'm happy to be there you said earlier you were down in the dumper in down in the dumperoos you said and i said oh i want to be there with you take me to the dumperoos with you and i said no stay away honestly get out of my swamp and i'm donkey they're, hey. I'm all alone. Are we there yet?

He's like, what's up? And he goes, in his ear. It's awful. Here we are, back in action like we never left. I fucking love Donkey. Me, me, honestly, me too. Hashtag me too. Me too movement me too movement yeah honestly the me too movement so i thought this episode would be good anyway before just because i'll say it i'll be the first to say i think sephi and i do a really good job of working

through shit together yeah i think we do right yeah and boy do we have shit like we are covered in shit some days and we work through it it's not like work I think it's um when you do anything with someone that's kind of intense or any of your friendships in life relationships in life there are a lot of things that are said that unconsciously kind of trigger people and it feels insane to pick them up on it oh you're making me out to be a bitch not at all not at all it's kind of you could see I had like potentially curled my hair one day and it could trigger you for some reason i didn't have time to curl my hair or something like anything literally anything it's so easy to let things

go kind of like oh i just felt bad and that's just on me i'm a fucking piece of shit person that sometimes they go without saying and they can't no no nothing can nothing nothing i mean the amount of times i've that that we've stopped the episodes quite often i don't know that's quite jarring to hear for you listening but sometimes we do often because i'll say to seffy like i don't i'm not finishing this because i think it's one of those things where sometimes you don't even realize that you've gone into like a not you specifically but just us as people just one doesn't realize that they've slipped into or something there's something's you know they're thinking of something etc you've spiraled into thought and you're

actually writing short stories in your head whilst your best friend is talking to you over a camera and it's like look this isn't normal but also i think i do that in daily life like i think it's just such a normal thing that you can be listening to someone and they've just said something that kind of they're kind of trying on their new bikini it's like i could never wear that bikini and it's like yeah you're triggered by it and it's like actually if you just said god sorry i'm really not being present with you in this moment because you're trying on this bikini and i really want to wear that bikini well you don't even know that you're triggered by it yeah you don't have words you don't even know that you're triggered by it you just know that you feel shit yeah and then you

say oh it's because i'm a piece of shit human being exactly yeah and that's why the good thing is i think when you can have those times where you or you can have those relationships where you are able to work through things together is because to me at least and i think for us nothing gets us out of the spiral like someone if you if you've lost your grip on life and you need to get a grip to be honest someone else walking you through it and like bringing you back to the start and talking you through it can be so helpful they're bringing you grips endless grips bobby pins can't move for grips it makes it sound like we're kind of this um kind of insecure kind like we're kind of so insecure whatever oh i think it's the opposite i it's really

hard to explain because it's almost like saying we have to stop the episode a lot makes it sound like god these people have fucking issues and we do have issues but it's also like i feel like normal conversations should be stopped or there'll be there should be moments in there we go wait what did you mean when you said that was that a fair thing to say to me blah blah blah absolutely kind of in a normal conversation you say wait i don't think that was fair actually blah blah yeah or like actually wait we're talking about shrek but actually i can't stop thinking about the fact that earlier i tried on a new jumper and it looks shit and now i'm gonna have to send it back and i can't bother to go to the post office and blah blah but i genuinely think like that's that i would prefer communication

to be like that always ever goes without saying i'd prefer it but it sounds mental it's almost like oh what a long-winded life sorry i actually feel it's like no but so much of that comes out yes to me it's more long-winded to hold the energy yeah it does come out i remember when we stopped the episode i was saying um or kind of after we had like a debrief a few days later and i was saying it's it's kind of we you need to talk we need to talk it through and when you think you've talked it through enough you've barely scratched the surface still like you can always air it out more because it's kind of i said you need to turn the lights on it because the minute you're in darkness

yeah the resentment the fear the anger the stress grows in the dark you need to put the lights on it's kind of you put the lights on and you see it was just your fucking dressing gown on the back of your door it was just your fucking towel hanging on your chair it's not a fucking big scary man it's not a dementor coming to eat you it's not a big deal this is my favorite thing in life now yeah it's when you talk it through it wasn't the monster that you thought it was it was your dressing gown at the end of your bed exactly it's not real yeah this wasn't this this impossible thing or this kind of really shameful thing that you can't understand you can't talk it's so embarrassing blah blah it's like no this is perfectly fine and there's nothing i think if you're in a good relationship there's nothing you can say that you can't work through i agree completely it's just making sure you say it imo so that's what i think we're good at and that was what we kind of posed

the question on the story of what is worse or what's more dangerous for you isolation or codependency i love that so much the question the which is more dangerous isolation or um codependency just because my mind immediately went to oh god never codependency never so i'd much rather independent i'd much rather isolation which ices independence yeah there we go that's like yeah yeah absolutely absolutely but i think anyone i'm gonna not just me anyone that thinks that is kidding themselves whoa think about isolation i actually think about isolation terrible to be codependent. But I think kind of social media has given you this fear that having a friendship means you are dependent on them.

Or a relationship. Like a romantic relationship, I mean. Yeah. I completely agree. I feel like it's almost like how we're all apparently really scared of sharks or like lava or quicksand. It's like this big, like horrible demonic thing that's apparently so dangerous.

You need to be really careful. It's like, that's actually, thankfully I don't think it is as much of a risk as we're told that it is. Absolutely, codependency can be awful in so many situations, but- I think you would have some awareness. Yeah, I think the situations

where people get into codependency are just much more rare. I think it's much more common for people to be in a dangerous state of isolation than it is for people to be in a dangerous state of codependency and i think the isolation leads to the codependency in that way that when i look at people that are codependent that i know and i know that's a harsh label to put on some people but when i look at people i think yeah you're absolutely fucked if this relationship breaks down you're fucked they're the kind of person that would have always done that sort of thing it's like no you need to do

some work on yourself it's not about this relationship with this person it's about the fact that you have nothing that you like about yourself in general so that now that you found this person you've attached to them and it's actually nothing it's not about them yeah you're not dependent on them in lots of ways you're dependent on the idea of having someone there i completely completely agree i think codependency in the kind of instagram like pseudoscience pseudotherapy instagram world that we live in that is kind of somehow weirdly mixed with like feminist instagram as if they kind of they weirdly have merged into like infographic world anything like kind or maternal is feminine and so whatever the girls are doing it's like we'll put it in pink then so whatever the girls are doing it's like

we'll put it in pink then the girls will like that one it's like they talk about like gaslighting and stuff it's just boundaries it's just like girl shit yeah no not quite but i think codependency is this term that's kind of thrown around that would almost be easy to categorize anyone that has a close relationship as being codependent i almost see um a lot of fear in that of like um okay well analyze your relationship then do you rely on them for things yeah you're codependent then it's like no codependency is very like quite serious lily allen's book actually talks about it a lot your style icon i've forgotten what it's called it's called do i have it behind me your pip some may say my pip if you know lucy sheridan's discourse you'll know a pip i've forgotten what

her book is fucking called it's like in my head or something like that that's all right we can just google lily allen book it's fucking stunning book what is it but she talks a lot about how she got to like the age of like 40 or whatever don't even know if she's 40 now she could be i think it was 30 so she got to an age an adult age and realized that she'd been codependent on all her boyfriends throughout her life and i think i read that and because she is my pip and because she is my literal love i thought fuck if lily allen's being codependent this is the scariest thing on earth like lily allen's realized this and this must be what all the traps that kind of me and my friends

are falling into like this lily allen's on there all the traps to put as a quick sound mental as we kind of previously discussed a lot of women have the preoccupation with a reluctance to appear weak and the last thing they want is to be a damsel in distress so yeah you're running along with that anyway and then add on the internet telling you that codependency is the worst thing or like you need to be fully healed before you allow in a new relationship which i want to get into yeah and then lily allen is telling you and then like a distrust of yourself that's like oh well that means any relationship i'm in fuck poor old lils yeah no i'm falling into this trap that lily got into no you're not you might be you might be i actually think it takes away the autonomy maybe

that young women have and i think it distracts them from actually allowing themselves to grow it's going to interrupt your growth it's fear-based exactly it's fear-based and i'm not about a fear-based narrative no no you know we're not because also i think it's one of those things when you find yourself in a codependent relationship or when you find yourself being like oh i think i could get into that i'm in a i'm in a vulnerableependent relationship or when you find yourself being like oh i think i could get into that i'm in a i'm in a vulnerable state right now whoever fucking comes up to me next i'll go for them and i'll and i'll put all my eggs in that basket of them you have to identify that within yourself but i don't think it's something that's helpful to be putting this label of like

codependency that is so prominent on the internet on it's not something you can really see that clearly from the outside i agree it's something that if you were the kind of person that would do that that's insecure and that you put all your identity into anything anywhere that you put your whole identity into your job or any of these things it's like yes then you most likely you'll put your entire entire identity into whoever you're with at that moment yeah i feel like it kind of links with also the discourse of like which we are absolutely a part of and and i also i definitely think there's a time and place for it as always but just always things have more nuance than you can fit into either an hour episode or a tiny little instagram

post um but the narrative of kind of your boyfriend needing therapy and you're his therapist you're his mom stop raising him he's not your son yes stop raising him he's not your son um i think there's a which i is absolutely a valid point goes without saying yeah but i think the emphasis on or like the demands that we make of ourselves and others to be perfect humans before we want to bring our reality and our authenticity to another human halts us and gets in the way of real valid experiences real relationships yeah positive experiences i think it gets in the way of because you're holding back because it's scary it's like you're waiting for something that's never going to happen you're really attached to the outcome of when i've got that then i can you

know bring in something then once i've got that once i've dealt with this then i can blah blah it's like just why don't we just see what happens why don't you just live why don't you just live your life it does prey on that impulse in women not to be weak because that's the whole fear of codependency absolutely not i don't need anyone fuck it i don't need anyone i'm totally fine on my own but when you strip it down it's like are you no of course you're not because you're a fucking human no of course you're not okay on your own you might be okay for a while on your own or you might be okay you don't need someone holding your hand to go to the shops yeah you're okay on your own but you literally do need

this network of people around you and i think that's fine well you need the right to be vulnerable yeah and that should be celebrated you're cutting out a massive window of opportunity in the name of not being seen as weak you're actually shutting down real life existence that's your weakness because you want to be seen as independent as a strong independent woman yeah and i think guys um that are codependent on their girlfriends or with their friends they don't have this um you can look at it easily and be like yeah they're fucking codependent but it's not it's not seen as as deep because it's like yeah they're just best friends or they're just um it's just his girlfriend of course he's dependent because that's his um stop raising him he's not your son that's his fucking mom yeah like it's basically of course there is allowed

to be this element of dependency well he, he's kind of praised for like- For being emotional. Having a great relationship. Yeah. But for a woman, it's like, oh, careful there. Careful. Like you need to be on top of all of this. But it's like, oh, but what if I'm not?

What if I am fucking dependent on my family? Is that the worst thing? Like, no, it's not really. Yeah, yeah. Of course you're taking risks in that what you have may leave you. That is just a risk in life. But also nothing's fucking permanent anyway. I think when you come to the acceptance course you're taking risks in that what you have may leave you that is just a risk in life but also

nothing's fucking permanent anyway i think when you come to the acceptance that all of this is unstable your job your relationship your friendships your entire identity is unstable like fundamentally um it's like shatterable in seconds then it's like oh it doesn't fucking matter then none of it fucking matters then just literally live for what is there in that moment hard but don't be looking at like okay well if i am with this person now then i need to be with them until i'm 50 and then i need to be with them till i'm 60 and i'm probably gonna end up with this person i'm gonna marry them but it's like you're living in um sort of storybook land yeah and that's when codependency kind of comes through yeah you haven't you haven't lived a day you've you've just spent the whole time in your head yeah you're waiting for happily ever after but turns out you're in the happily

bit it's not ever after but it could be happy in this moment now yeah so true something we spoke about in the last episode when we were talking about therapy um i was saying like the thing that i think helps me most or the thing that i think therapy does most for me is not even about what they could say or what it might bring up for me or any of that i think therapy does most for me is not even about what they could say or what it might bring up for me or any of that. I think the main thing it all just comes down to kind of dedicating that time, making that move purely for myself,

purely out of the decision to better my life and spending that time a week, every, an hour every week, not this week, whatever. Basically she cancelled on me this morning, but whatever, it doesn't matter. I'm not, I'm not going about it. Nothing personal, it's fine.

But actually I was quite glad. But anyway, I think just dedicating, hang on. You've got something in your eye. Itchy eyeball. Have you got a retainer in? Oh my God, I fucking wish I did. I have got contact lens. That's kind of the equivalent right i can't

believe you wear contacts every day like i know that's what people with glasses do but i do find it mental i know yeah well i don't sometimes i don't wear them every day i just can't see god anyway yeah i think just dedicating that time is the main thing but i also kind of wanted to add that that doesn't have to be through therapy i think if therapy isn't an option for you or like a traditional route of like self-development quote-unquote isn't an option for you then there are lots of other ways that we can make that dedicated space for ourselves to like heal through something and i do think part of that is in your relationships but then i also think there are lots of other ways.

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is queer, and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on spotify apple or wherever you get your podcasts a cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com completely well that we were talking about this this is this was an episode fucking ages ago like fucking six months ago but i remember talking about um when i watched the film midsummer and it was like oh my god that was therapeutic to watch that like not many things feel like they kind of just washed you fucking clean and you're like oh my god like god i feel like i've been through a process there but so i think there are definitely definitely alternative forms of like finding that like

like realizations kind of as oprah would call it an aha moment where you find the kind of ah i clicked like um it's making sense like things are making sense yeah a breakthrough a breakthrough moment what's effie and win would call a harry i now speak directly to you moment yeah yeah exactly a harry i speak directly to you moment that's quite fun let's make that a thing already is thank god but yeah i think the lens that therapy is the place where you do that is so simplistic it's like yeah it is it's one of many places that you can do that and definitely definitely one of the key places is talking through things with people you know and trust and love yeah the most stunning thing what you can get it from a professional that knows the facts

and you can get it from your friends and people that you trust and have your best interest at heart. Is that the saying? Have your best interest at heart. Yeah. In their hearts. I don't know. They know you.

They care. They know the situation and they want to fucking talk about it with you. And I think that's very, very stunning the most stunning i think even if you feel like that person doesn't exist for you first of all i would say they do they're quincephian wing and i just i just really guarantee you that someone gives a shit is down to hear your shit yeah and if you don't be that person like that is the thing if if you can be like fuck literally no one wants to hear these issues that's why it's like journal then because there are kind of that yeah there's that weird fucking thing where it's like there are kind of two people in your head don't know about

everyone else but there's kind of the voice that gets carried away with oh my god i'm so fucking angry right now my god i just fucking need to fucking die like it that's the voice that's the kind of more than two yeah you're in your internal monologue that's that's that's a fucking dumbo don't listen to a word and then you can access this kind of higher self thing through journaling or through kind of meditation or you can kind of get it at some points where it's like you're not talking through this when you take the time for yourself there is someone that listens and goes god that must have been hard for you like that that sounds like that was stressful and that is kind of your sort of higher self or whatever if you want to put these like spiritual things but i think there

is kind of two elements of like the kind of the ego mind and the fucking actual mind that's like like the being of you that's like did you mean that when you said that like why were you triggered and it's like who are you talking about when you're like oh why were you triggered it's like you're talking about this kind of lower version of yourself which sounds mental but it's like that's why journaling and all of these things are important because you're working out with using your kind of actual not idiotic self to be like why were you offended that oh it's because you were being a fucking idiot and you thought that bikini's nice i want to wear that but i can't but i can't yeah yeah yeah i can i honestly couldn't agree more well i'm so glad i'd be gutted if you said i just honestly couldn't disagree more it resounds so heavy it's well and

truly resounding i think it's quite common that we find ourselves in these like slumps where we're doing it what everyone's saying we're doing the meditating we're doing the journaling we're doing the work we're doing it all but it we're like nothing's fucking happening like yeah it's still it doesn't like you're doing the journaling but you're not cracking you do I mean you're not having the breakthrough you're not having the harry I speak directly to moment yeah so stunning well because they're far they're few and far between why can't i come up with sayings today they're few and far between they're few and far between best interests in your heart they have your best interest in the depths of their heart but i think a part of that is because you're still coming to the journal with pressure. Yeah. You're still coming to your meditation in the morning with the pressure.

You're coming with the lower self. Yeah, you're still coming. You're coming with, I need to fucking solve these fucking issues. It's like, no, you're not going to solve them like that. Absolutely. Yeah, you're coming with already thinking I'm not good enough. I'm so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Before you can do all of these things and they make a difference,

it needs to be a your feelings are valid moment. I hate to it back up but it is true oh my god if you haven't accepted that sometimes it's okay for you to feel shit not just you won't feel shit you'll just blaze through it and you'll get burnt out or you'll just do the toxic positivity thing i'm feeling great blah blah or you'll do the performative kind of i'm having a shit day and you'll put a film on all day and just leave won't leave your bed because you're trying to perform what it is to have a bad day you actually haven't listened to what your inner self needed from you i just genuinely think harry the fucking only thing your self is actually asking for is kind of love and like acceptance yeah of all of the things if you break it down of what upset you oh is this person

um called you a bitch why is that upsetting it's like because you wanted to be accepted you wanted to feel seen and accepted and loved like when you actually get to the crux of it and you go through all the fucking onion layers like donkey and shrek you're going through at the core of the fucking onion is an ogre jokes is love it's literally just you want to be loved yeah that's basically it that's why you seek kind of recognition and fame and popularity and beauty and um all of these things and to graduate with the highest first degree no what you want is everyone say yeah you're worthy you're loved like we we love you and you deserve that that's basically what your little child self is asking

yeah and you deserve to feel loved therefore if you can't find it from somebody else or something else or some external thing then give yourself everything that you once desired from others give it to yourself now now now that's the only thing stopping you our mantras are kind of hitting us hard at the moment i think it's because i'm in the depths of despair you don't have to say much to hit me hard honestly are you okay is enough to set me over the edge yeah for sure you send me like a heart emoji and I cry like it's all right yeah okay so all you want to be loved it's like yeah okay heart emoji um but I feel like your feelings are valid has been really hitting you and you're the authority of your own life has been hitting me like our own mantras are kind of coming back to us in quite

stunning ways well I was kind of screaming that of you for a while I feel like it was washing over your head I couldn't hear a word no you couldn't you were we were saying on the podcast I was here going you're the authority of your own life but um yeah no it wasn't hitting me at all until you were kind of screaming it to me again you're the authority of your own life i wasn't letting it go but one day i just thought jesus she's right yeah i'm the authority of my own life i wish someone had told me sooner like yeah god i should listen to this fucking podcast but it is mental when you realize like for example with you realizing your feelings are valid it's like my feelings are valid well I still haven't realised I can't wait until I realise no and I still don't really think I'm the authority I kind of think can someone just come in and tell me what

to do we're performing what it is to know these things for the sake of you listening I hope it's working there's a bit in Fleabag that I always like love. I've started watching Fleabag. Have you? She, I don't know if you're going to be happy about this. She really reminds me of you. Really? I was going to message you and say, are you in Fleabag? Are you Phoebe Waller-Bridge?

You never tell me you're the star writer. Yeah. The hit show Fleabag. I kind of like it. As in, I feel like I look so different to her. No, I think it's kind of your look but also kind of your man just i don't know what it is the mannerisms i understand for sure i think it's something about the way that she speaks i kind of like that i just really thought of his

his sephie kind of um i was kind of having a dominoes watching fleabag for the first time like oh she's come to join me and she's the star writer and director star i need to congratulate her just send you some flowers congrats on fleabag congrats on the podcast turn up with a millie's cookie the people that you think that i'm like really make me laugh because you also thought that snl woman the vanessa oh you are like her what's her name vanessa beya maybe iya that basically vanessa from snl yeah from snl but she does a great they did a great little sketch with her and ryan gosling it was honestly quite a sexual moment so you should go watch it oh yeah okay i'll watch that kind of watch a sexual moment with yourself

and ryan gosling i'm in and ryan gosling wouldn't say no i don't see that either but but Fleabag's that's really come out of left field is that the saying I don't know right it is I promise you you're getting them right stop second guessing yourself what's going on here yeah I know but I really that's random but I do love that I mean I'm happy because then I can re-watch that that priest moment oh my god I haven't got that far you're not there I'm sure you're not there yeah you're at the kind of man with the weird teeth bit I'm sure who I not there. Yeah, you're at the kind of man with the weird teeth bit, I'm sure. Who I thought looked like Theo James. So much.

So much like Theo James. I literally thought I have to story this and say, this is Theo James. Is this Theo James? I can't get on the stories right now. I'm too depressed. I can't even make a good joke. But he really reminded me of Theo James. But he looks so much like Theo James, the guy with the teeth.

Yeah. Kind of fit, but not. Anyway, so what were you saying about Fle about flea bar oh my god so you're not at this bit yet but it's it's just stunning i think i can just tell you that's all right yeah you know about the hot priest you've you've mentioned him before yeah yeah i know him through you you have got posters of him all over your walls but yeah he's literally the fucking that character i mean it made me love priests so much i watched broad church recently and i was just like is this other priest heart it's like there's just other random priest there's a priest in that you've googled shows with priests that's why we were called higher priestess

it all makes sense now i'm thinking of becoming a priest oh my god just there's this one bit where it goes without saying a lot of sexual tension in the whole thing but she's kind of saying like she's like breaking down she's like i just wish there was someone that would tell me what to eat tell me what to wear do my fucking makeup get me ready tell me what job to do tell me who to be friends with tell me who to go out with and all of this stuff and it's like the epitome of you're not the authority in your life it's there is this desire i think well i definitely have it you've said that to me before i would love someone just to be like yeah here's what you're fucking wearing here's where you're going here's who your fucking friends are that's what you're doing and it'd be

like okay i feel validated in that yeah you don't trust yourself i think i have a lack of trust it's like or just even if it was the exact same life because i i'm happy with how everything is but if someone was like okay so you do this podcast with wing you live here this is what you wear and it was all my exact life that would be fine but i just want a priest to say thumbs up you're doing well yeah thumbs up from me yeah you can't yeah you want God's approval but in reality it's like I don't fucking believe in God I am the God of my own life so why is it not okay for me to just be like I don't need a fucking Andrew Scott dressed as a fucking priest being like you're great it's actually like you're the authority

of your own life it was you all along to be honest nobody's coming Harry nobody's coming Harry we've said it before and we'll say it again oh you better believe we'll say again you believe we'll say you better believe we might have much with that on so on the stories on instagram follow us on instagram at sephie and wing we were talking about trusting yourself confidence what shakes our confidence and kind of how we heal through the shit of life basically me and my boyfriend were literally saying last night like you know when you just say in passing like oh life is hard and then we were like no but like actually though

life is hard like it's hard yeah it's harder than you think it's a joke how hard life is yeah and the fact that we don't talk about it is the hardest part or you kind of say it in like oh like we know like it's a tough time at the moment or there are these like sentences of like oh we know everyone's going through it or like oh life is just life is hard it's like casual but it's like no no actually break it down yeah life is hard it's like no this is a joke let's unpack that for a sec it's a joke it's an absolute joke yeah hard doesn't cut it i was asked recently like what's what's your background like what do what do you like wherever you come from like what do you do and it's like i literally just fucking got here like this i'm a mess i'm new me

yeah yeah i'm fresh meat here i don't know what my i don't have a background my background was like fucking school my background was fucking just came out of a womb yeah what was your background it was my mum's womb yeah it's like i don't have a background i'm literally 24 i just arrived yeah what's your background well it all started when i was six and i yeah it's like no i don't have one my background was huh are you talking about my ancestry i don't understand i don't remember it it was i was in labor yeah i don't know yeah so it's almost like you wake up you're out of the womb i would honestly call the fucking education system part of the fucking womb experience you're being born throughout that time you're literally yeah just much less pleasant much less pleasant you're much more

conscious which makes it a lot less pleasant you then find yourself in this world where it's like right you're in the your arms are folded you're right right now you're in the real world it's like i don't want to be in the fucking real world because with the real world you have created is literally dog shit it's awful real world sucks absolutely fucking it's the pit yeah so don't fucking throw me here then go what's your background it's the pits it's the fucking pits of despair it's honestly the pits good luck getting me down there it's the what do you call the depth i don't know i don't remember that i said this i loved it so much because it was just like a little doodah day or something it was like the defy defy doodahs what did you call it the deparose i said at the beginning no it wasn't depth by the way we used

to say we're debt we're johnny dept i still i haven't let that go i still say well we do say it but i don't think we've ever explained that on the podcast when we say we're dept sometimes we just send a picture well we used to do this send a picture of johnny dept dept short for depression it's johnny dept so if you ever see a picture of johnny depp on the story it means it's not going well we're dept now yeah oh so we asked on the story fucking hell we asked you what shakes your confidence and kind of going off of us talking about trusting yourself and things like that and somebody said that let me read this they said that they find it hard to trust themselves when they feel like they're not being authentic or not being true to who they are let's unpack that it's when you feel

like kind of who's driving this thing? Who's driving this person? You're in the film Meet Dave, if you've ever seen that. No. With Eddie Murphy, where he's being driven by a load of aliens. Never.

It's, don't worry. Don't even bother. Don't worry about it, yeah. I'll stick with, um, Eddie Murphy is donkey, yeah? Yeah, Eddie Murphy is donkey, but also he plays a character called Dave Ming Chang.

Oh, wow. In the film Meet Dave. Niche knowledge. We used to have the DVD and I used to watch it on repeat. But it's kind of he's it's kind of who's driving this. You're not trusting yourself. That doesn't happen in Meet Dave. Don't worry.

Basically, don't worry about any of that. Forget it. Forget it. Forget it. Forget it. It's too niche. Who's driving this thing? who let us have a podcast i don't know it all went wrong when we said give yourself what you want don't wait for anyone give

yourself everything you desire from others now it's like no we honestly should have waited permission we should have waited for um the priest from fleabag to be like okay yeah god's given you permission to do this you're allowed to start the podcast now no one wanted this you can tell we didn't wait for permission no it's going well it's going semi well in our lives but yeah it's kind of your you don't trust yourself because you're like the person that's driving this the person that's making my decisions the person that's kind of my words are coming out of their that's coming from insecurity it's like this is my if you're going to split the self into two things of like my ego and my essence say or my lower self my higher self when things are coming from like your lower self your insecurity your anger and all of your bitterness of course you're like fuck i don't

trust this person because why would you it's a literal maniac yeah actually a fucking maniac in there so it's like yeah you don't trust it because it's not your truest self you're reacting to things that happening with to you with like immediate kind of insecurity rather than being like am i upset i think jealousy is like the deepest sign of that jealousy isn't it yeah and kind of just the desperation jealousy is hard jealousy gives me a feeling of like no no don't ever want to feel it evil evil evil evil not to be messed with not to be tampered with honestly jealousy when you feel jealous or when you can see jealousy like bubbling or like you can see the signs of jealousy or in someone else or whatever you just know that person needs a hug and needs help help needs professional intervention yeah but it's that what they're

screaming for this is what i mean by when you bubble it down it's just love at the bottom of it it's a need for love because if you bubble down that kind of cook it down to its raw stock whatever of jealousy yeah these phrases it's just a little baby being like please tell me i'm good enough yeah it's like yeah of course it is because that person is suffering and also i think what shakes your confidence or what makes you feel like you don't trust yourself is when you're being inauthentic to yourself it's also kind of the other layer of it is almost who are you to say what's authentic to yourself because you're not really there yet you just got here yeah you just got here who knows who knows and yeah sometimes jealousy unfortunately is the most authentic like sometimes the bad shit or the or the shameful stuff the things you don't want to

show are pretty authentic sometimes they're your raw form they're real yeah they're very real oftentimes unfortunately um it's kind of that thing of when you put pressure on yourself to be a certain you're just only gonna set yourself up for failure you're just performing and desperate desperate that's another one that gives me the feeling of oh god that's not fun that's not a fun place to be i'm i'm not gonna oh no i can't this team it sounds mean to me no don't worry no please don't say no go on if it's mean to someone else say it please don't say it. But go on. If it's mean to someone else, say it. I don't want to. It's bad vibes. It's just...

Oh, I'll say it. Why? You got it out of me. It didn't take long, did it? It doesn't take a lot to get me to be mean. Say it. If it's mean about someone else, say it. Just the fact that desperation...

We encountered somebody. I don't want anyone to think that it's them. It's like... Just there was some person who gave us a desperate vibe and now whenever we say you're being desperate we say you're being a insert name here i don't want to do i don't want that to be well let's not do it then oh okay cut or not cut i don't know i like i think it's funny who are you scared of hearing it everyone because i don't i don't like it i think it's not nice okay well it's gone then who are you scared of hearing it? Everyone. Because I don't like it. I think it's not nice. Okay, well, it's gone then.

Who are you scared of hearing it? Everyone. I think it's just quite funny with all of this in. But I just, I think, let's get it. Me too. No, no, leave it in. It's fine. Okay, leave it in.

Leave it in. God. They're like, you should have taken a week off. Another week. No, but I genuinely think it's like, I'm not nice all the time. But you, you are quite nice. You're like a nice, kind person. I am pretty nice. But I do, I don't't naturally go i don't naturally gravitate towards bitching about

people but no not in me boy oh boy when people bitch your ears prick up i do find it hard to not yeah it's a bit fun what's that yeah i agree we're not very bitchy me or us no i don't think we're very bitchy as people i think that's boring but it's not because i think i do think it's wrong but it's not because i have a moral standpoint against bitching so i think it's fucking dull because what you're doing when you're actually bitching is you're just being insecure you're trying to validate yourself by saying they're doing everything wrong yeah but goes about saying some people are desperado i think that i don't naturally i think it comes from my thing of people pleasing i don't naturally judge people like i don't because i think i don't have the

right to judge i'm like who am i to judge only god can judge as they say very religious episode you're kind of harry waiting for his dad to come exactly yeah i'm i don't have the right to judge people in my mind i don't have that i barely have the right to be here guys you're not the authority in your own life um is how I feel. So I don't. I feel like I don't pick up on negative things. Or like things that would be perceived negatively about others. But when they're brought to me. I entertain it more than I like.

And I don't think I entertain it really that much at all. But I just think. I don't like getting swept into negativity. Positive vibes only. Oh sweep me in. Sweep me into negativity i'll go with you for a while but i also think there has to be the line to it because it's i think also when you boil down bitching no matter how kind of fun you think it is with your friends at a

sleepover to be bitching about some girl that you know when you boil it down again all it is is a load of girls being like i'm valid aren't i i'm good enough i'm good enough so if i put if i bring this other person down far enough i can convince myself that i'm good enough yeah if her shoes are so embarrassing and we're going to talk about how lame they are my shoes are good though so i'm i'm on top of this my shoes are fine it's like break it down and what you're saying is somebody please love me someone loved me yeah so it's actually pretty sad as as is life but i do think some people some people deserve to be spoken about as well you used to have a thing of like if you do bitchable things you're gonna get bitched about that was your kind of thing which i

liked it's not even so much bitch but i almost think if you act like a twat to someone that person then is within their rights to tell someone that you act like like a twat to complain yeah to be like wait i was just hurt by this person if you slapped me i'm okay to be like wait wing just slapped me not even if i went to an ice cream shop and they served me bad ice cream i had a bad experience i'm in my rights to go to you and say sephie don't go to that ice cream shop or like you feel free to go but my judgment is that the ice cream was bad yeah and i don't think that's um yeah i think that's fine i guess i don't know bitching because i think it goes without saying again we're doing a lot of goes bitching because i think it goes without saying again

we're doing a lot of goes about saying in this episode of goes without saying but it does go about saying that bitching is gendered and all of this thing that it's seen as women talking about things they were unhappy with is oh stop bitching it's the trivial yeah it's like no actually if someone fucking came over and spilled your drink you're allowed then to be like that person was a freak they came and spilled my drink all over me one time in the library this girl was sat next to me and she had like her notebook and she had like her computer in front of her and she had a drink and whatever and she was like i'm just gonna run and go i don't know where she was going i'm going to print something maybe this was like around this time it was like exam time so i'm going here like can you watch my stuff i was like

abso-freaking-lutely absolutely i will do anything for you i'll die for you honey i'll do anything my life on the line for you stranger what's your name i'm wing love to meet you will you come over later yeah honestly i'm in the depths of despair should i kill myself for you whatever you want i'll do it where are you going i'll come with you going to a cliff i'll jump off literally so i was honestly ready to do i would have done whatever to give her the best printing experience she came back whatever suddenly you work at kind of rhyming honestly she was gone for about 30 seconds i can still see her walking off and what do i do like an absolute fool buffoon like an absolute goofball i spilt her coffee all over her fucking nose all over the computer that's so bad and my stuff was completely dry

my stuff was bone fucking dry you have to just tip a bit on yours at that point her whole notebook oh my god oh my god and all the people next to me were like oh my god like what are you gonna do like all these strangers were like that's crazy right that's fucking crazy for you i wanted to die what did you do well also i was like i need to go i don't want to wait until she come like now i can't leave i need to not not that i would have left yeah no because someone was like why don't you just go it's like oh my i'm not leaving the lot i'm not running away and then you have to drop out of uni no but i mean like she walks past you like you fucking ruined all my why don't you get plastic surgery and change your name and disappear but i i wanted to leave to like go find her because i didn't want to just wait until she came back to be like hey sorry i did

a bad job shrug you shouldn't have entrusted me you trusted the wrong idiot today honestly um and i was like i'll buy you a new notebook whatever blah blah she wasn't buying she wasn't she wasn't buying it she was just she was so nice she was like no don't worry about whatever and then i like went like probably went off with you somewhere and then came back and she'd bought herself a new notebook wait this is when i knew you yes and yeah you kept this very secret to be honest i doubt i did i probably came back and spoke about it all day and all night and you don't remember which is fine to be honest i would block out my memory too if i could but anyway i'm a fucking bitch so wait what did you do well what do you do in that situation you have to pretend there was like a freak accident kind of there was an earthquake you run away yeah literally there's an earthquake it's kind of tear it all apart the

tectonic plates are going in that's burn the library down you have to just never to be seen again yeah and never come back that's not what i did but it's what i should have done instead you politely apologized and yeah moved on so what you think that she's probably bitched about you? I don't know why I brought that up. Just wanted to get it off my chest, I guess. Well, it reminded me of... Do you remember Water Bottle Guy? Oh my God, I do, yeah.

It just reminded me of it. It's not relevant, but... We want to hear. I had an ongoing issue with someone at university that I called affectionately not affectionately water bottle guy infamously he obviously did the same course as me or something but i would always find myself next to him you were manifesting him i was accidentally manifesting a very thirsty boy his mouth was bone dry but he would always be like oh can i have a sip of your water

wherever i went from your water bottle from i had a water bottle with me as one does in life a water bottle with me and he would always just sit next to me and be like can i just have some of your water which i think is a weird question to ask a stranger you're making it look delicious he was hallucinating he's in the fucking Sahara desert and you're walking along the fucking horizon. It's a mirage. It's a mirage. It's dripping all over you. He's thinking, God, give me a taste of that.

But it's so weird like to ask a stranger. It is a bizarre thing to do, I think. Now in COVID as well, it makes it seem fucking weird. But yeah, there were points where I had to just let this boy drink out of my water bottle. But the thing is is it didn't just happen once it's like it happened like four or five times maybe often enough for it for him to often enough for him to be called water bottle guy water bottle guy and he lived on my street as well

in third year when we lived together our street i remember moving in and being like are you fucking joking the water bottle guy he's gonna be knocking on our door are you running the tap can i get a sip of that i'll get a sip let me get in the shower with you sorry i'm so thirsty but it was so weird because i would be in seminars with him and there'd be other people in the seminar like sometimes i would see him sitting next to someone else with a water bottle wasn't so thirsty then but the next time i'd be next to him oh sorry can i have a sip of your water oh i thought you saw him ask somebody else no it was purely it was purely purely oh it was probably you maybe he was terrorizing you but in the library he'd like come up to me

he'd seek you out he had a trucker on you he'd seek me out close sorry your water is just like delicious something about your water it's just tap water yeah and you really do drink tap water i wonder what that was it was a weird weird boy because once i was doing a group presentation with him i was doing group presentations with him i heard you the first time and the whole night before i was like are you prepped like are you yeah are we ready like he just ghosted me the whole night before and the whole morning. What's going on here? And I sat down in the seminar and I was like, so are you, like, we needed to compile everything.

Are you okay? And he was like, sorry, I was playing chess. God. He's like, what, all night? All morning you're playing chess? What a game. All day and all night. It's kind of you now,

playing chess all day and all night, getting drunk. It is kind of me now. But also also what a game he must have been playing but that's the story of water bottle guy the infamous the infamous water bottle guy i look of all the things i've managed to spin back i think you've got me there i don't know how to spin water bottle guy back into this apart from what do you think his insecurity i think think it's that he was codependent on water. Aren't we all? He had a codependent relationship with my water bottle. Who can't relate?

What time are we on out of curiosity? An hour. Oh, so we can get out of here then. So we're done. We're done. Well, we're 59 mins. But the listener's thinking, thank God for that. It's like a water bottle guy.

It's like, literally, you lost me at Dave Ming Chang and now you really lost me. I think that's funny. Well, I don't I almost don't quite know what to say. I think we're in for a ride, a communal ride together. We're going on stealth. Get on board. It's a big old big old depression bus. Yeah.

The depression bus. That sounds really bad. Flying fish at Thought Park. Going to the depths of hell. The depression bus that sounds really bad flying fish at thought park going to the depths of hell the depression bus is kind of any bus it's kind of the bus the bus is kind of the 158 oh god they are buses are on are not fun for me i've cried on many a bus oh goes without saying but yeah so i think we're just in for an authentic ride as we say every fucking time but we needed a week off we've had our week off we're back with apparently a bang yeah it's been a banger i hope so in my mind yeah i'm i'm to be honest just grateful to have this with everyone

involved including you sephie obviously goes without saying same i'm grateful to have this with everyone involved and you wing and jim and harry styles who honestly can't leave us alone let's not bring him up oh yeah if you're not in the discord yet harry styles is there and he honestly he's fucking bugging everyone you forgot to level two you forgot to level three harry shut the fuck up you're ruining this space he's honestly he's kind of losing his cool with you guys he like can't hold back he's a bag of nerves it started off funny it's like oh my god harry styles is our bot and it's like god harry you need to leave yeah he's a loser of nerves. It started off funny. It's like, oh my God, Harry Styles is our bot. And it's like, God, Harry, you need to leave. Yeah, he's a loser.

Harry, I speak directly to you, Harry Styles. Shut the fuck up. Soon we're going to be on level 52. Okay, let's get out of here. Yeah. Hopefully we'll see you next week. If you don't hear from us, then... I was going to say assume the worst, but that was very triggering.

If you don't hear from... Wait, look, we'll be back next week. Don't worry about it. See you there. Assume the worst there what a weird way to end a podcast we're really gonna end the podcast if you don't hear from us that's awful that isn't normal that is not a normal way to end a podcast.