Goes Without Saying - how to hibernate: lonely isolation girl szn

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on loneliness, how to make friends as adults, friendship breakups, fights, communication and fomo. anti-social attention-seeker? is there anything this girl can't do? ✷shop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.ukhear more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwingwatch more ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Hello. Hello. Hello. We're just popping in so quickly.

It's not an ad. This is not an ad. We're not being paid for this at all. This is not an ad. No, we're just giddy. We're just excited. We just have to spread the news. Yeah.

Everybody ringing the bell in the town square. Everybody. Come on down. Roll up. Roll up today the day that this episode comes out at some point over the course of that day the nhs are launching a campaign for like their talk therapy services which as you know sephie and i have both proudly been users of i'm currently in i've got my last session tomorrow oh god how timely oh my god that's crazy actually yeah so at some point over the day we will be we're a part of the so wanky to say we're a part of the campaign actually yeah but at some point in the day we will be posting about it we're

not being paid like it's not an ad we're just excited about it you know we always tell you if you're in england and you can access those services you definitely should yeah anything to add um we love the nhs we love therapy go god save the nhs yeah god bless the nhs if you need help if you're struggling at all it's a great place to go you can speak to your gp and you can go to nhs.uk forward slash talk and do like a self-referral but the therapy you can get can be online it can be over the phone it can be face to face etc just it's so worth getting yourself it's so worth prioritizing yourself and to be honest just get on the waiting list all right should we say their catchphrase actually if you say that what is it that their nhs talking therapy

referral your best decision your best decision i thought you were gonna say blah blah live well or something it's like where have i got live well from isn't that like a yogurt it's like live well isn't it like just do it this can't go it's assumed the worst. Is this me? Yeah. Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing.

And I'm Sefi. And this episode is, I would first of all say some really nice company, if you're not feeling too hot, if you're not feeling too great, feeling a little bit isolated, you've been hibernating, feeling a little bit on your own a little bit lonely we're here for you we're talking about attracting the right relationships we're attracting the people that we actually want in life um i feel like this is such a nice episode we really had a great time hope you enjoy well you know what i'm gonna say what are you gonna say cambridge has not yet i think we've had just a reminder because it's the kind of thing that i would hear and be like it's like

it's the kind of thing that i would think oh cambridge i'll go to that i want to see seven wing and then i'll forget about it and then i'll just be like oh shit i missed it oh that's annoying and i didn't go and i'll be a bit bummed but so if that's you i know harry i'll speak directly to you come to cambridge yeah see you there see you there hopefully anyway anything else to add um notice board nothing else on the agenda why don't we move straight to item one yeah item one on the agenda everyone's feeling lonely wow yeah we were just reading through everyone's responses we asked on our instagram sephie and wing you already know it um what makes you feel lonely and god there were some heart-wrenching

tales it's a funny question to ask i was like we're really kicking you while you're down it's like what makes you feel lonely it's like go on tell us and the one that we've written just before it was what knocks your confidence next slide what makes you feel lonely it's like jesus christ it's like god give me a break these i've got to unfollow these people shall we start yeah i think we were already talking about one that i really liked okay it was our friend jade once again classic but she what was it she said i can try and find it oh i found it here we go yes so a lot of people were saying things like um the classic things that make people feel lonely like fomo um sort of being in an empty house things like that seeing your friends do things without you but we quite liked what Jade was saying she said when I decide to isolate myself

all in my own decisions really and I think that is a crux it could be the crux yeah loneliness a choice maybe I don't think it always is at all no it's definitely not always definitely not but i think the times when it really hurts are when you feel like it's like right okay i'm really lacking a social thing at the moment i need to like socially connect with people all of the staff which is just completely a human need um and you think well i've distanced myself from everyone i have done that and i think that is when it really hurts because then it becomes almost like a shameful thing it's your fault and all of that and i think that is when it is time to bring in some like forgiveness take the

shame out of it totally tomorrow's the words right out of my mouth i do think as well like especially in 2024 when it's like oh if i want to get a hold of you jade i could just hit you up on instagram straight away and it's like oh all of a sudden you've got message to reply to that's a lot to ask of a person it's like we're really at every we're at the mercy of whoever wants to message us at any given moment yeah and i feel like just in life, so overwhelming this life. Oh my God. Why is it? That it kind of comes as no surprise that we would end up doing things that kind of

getting into that cycle every now and then of like not getting back to people, pushing people away, doing the whole isolating thing. Because keeping up can be really demanding and exhausting but then i think the shame that comes with that is really um it's kind of reductive like it kind of just doesn't um it dismisses the reality that we live in this world where you're so up for grabs at any moment yeah that it's kind of natural that you would have times where you it's the ebb and flow guys prepare to diamond it is there will be times when you're out and about and everyone's back and cool and there will be times when you need to be retreating retreating and hibernating a little bit

and i think definitely giving yourself like you don't have to um make yourself feel like the biggest piece of shit on earth for not getting back to your friend it's like yes that would be really good if you could like get back to your friends let them know like you're thinking of them whatever like you do prioritize them etc be nice but also forgive yourself for like not being available and not in the mood all the time yeah it's a lot to ask of just a person just a girl it is and i think also because it's an overwhelming feeling it's absolutely horrific feeling feeling lonely and isolated and all of that and i think because it is so horrible

the instinct is to be like as soon as it appears you almost write off the like every other positive thing and almost it's like i almost like if i would feel it for an hour of my day so i start to feel lonely now it would almost be like and it's because of my actions for the last month even six months years i've done this to myself and it's like huh whoa whoa whoa it's always just because you feel shit right now it's like to be honest all the sometimes i'm amazed actually uh what level what small level yeah of social interaction fills up my bar really like right it's not what i thought you were gonna say that that's kind of how i feel sometimes it's like it's not that i need to suddenly

go to a huge party and fucking see everyone i know oh my god guys i'm gonna go mental yeah i'm gonna never do it off the floor yeah yeah yeah it's actually like if you go outside and walk your dog and someone goes morning and you go morning it's like okay actually that took me up a little bit and then you phone your friend or you get a funny text from someone someone sends you a meme or whatever actually it can be very tiny things that add to your sense of like connectedness in the world it doesn't to be honest even listening to a podcast or listening to a song that you really connect with or watching a movie that you really feel like you know and love all those characters that you're really lost in loneliness really is just a sense of like i don't feel connected as a human being

in this world it doesn't have to be that you have a deep convo with your best friend all night long it actually doesn't really take that no sometimes it's very small completely agree with you i actually think don't underestimate the power of like those small human interactions like someone like the person working at the checkout when you go to the shop and like never underestimate that is actually massive like even just someone being like okay bye have a nice oh they just almost you know when life goes a bit off script like i was saying this i remember saying this to you before but like for example like working in a cafe you end up having yeah a certain script that you follow this is where you're amazing you have the same it goes without

saying it goes out saying we came in and said welcome everybody exactly yeah you know you have certain scripts that they just end up flowing out of you and that happens not just when you're working in a cafe but all the time like you go to the supermarket and if anyone says anything out of the ordinary which to be honest is any interaction i think in a city humans it's not a employee and a customer dynamic oh are those crisps nice i've been thinking of getting them someone said to me the other day and i was like oh my god i'm in the real world yeah it's like oh my god i'm a human being i have to give an opinion on something yeah and it pulls you out of the

thing of oh i haven't spoken to anyone this morning yet i haven't interacted with anyone yet like yeah and i am a real human being on this earth that people can communicate with and i think if you're living on your own or you've just moved somewhere where you don't know anyone yet like yeah and i am a real human being on this earth that people can communicate with and i think if you're living on your own or you've just moved somewhere where you don't know anyone yet like that sort of thing it can be really um it can actually do so much for you just like getting a smile off someone or getting like a teeny tiny whisper of a conversation from someone do you know i only sorry go on no no you go no no because mine's kind of well mine mine kind of is too i thought you were gonna say you're surprised at how little it takes to like get a friendship or a conversation back on track so like you know when you've been isolated or like

you haven't got back oh i've been really shit with messaging oh shit i was supposed to see you and then our plans didn't work oh whatever blah blah blah it doesn't take much and if you've been really shit with messaging. Oh shit, I was supposed to see you and then our plans didn't work out, whatever, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't take much. And if you've been isolating yourself and you've been in a bit of a rut recently, I'm always surprised at how little it takes for you to just literally send a little message or a sentence or two

or just a little voice note or a little something to say, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I've been dealing with X, Y, and Z. I've been so busy with X, Y, and Z sorry i've been dealing with x y and z i've been so busy with x y and z i've been feeling a b and c really miss you let's go and do this i've been thinking of you whatever just sometimes like the smallest hi little wave from somebody just bring like everyone just wants to like hear that you're all right and that they're thinking

you know you were thinking of each other and you know i mean it doesn't have to be this huge thing of like i didn't go to the thing and now they're not gonna want to be my friend anymore they do still want to be your friend anymore i promise like you're not the most evil piece of shit on the planet because you didn't reply to a text or you didn't go out that time or like yeah you've just been hibernating like i promise it's okay and i feel like that's something i'm surprised by or like that's been a nice lesson over the past like five years is that when you just say oh my god shit i've been so prioritized with x y and z that i just i didn't get back to you and i'm so sorry that i've been a dick and people are okay with that they are they are if they're not a dick

they're okay with it yeah because they're doing the same thing too definitely i think it's like just text someone that either one of your friends someone random whatever someone that you're thinking of and i think it is actually quite surprising sometimes what i agree i agree because honestly i i think i hold this so fucking true in my life i've experienced to be true over and over and over again you do not know what will happen you have got no clue what will happen in your life that like you can have any plan or you can have any sort of bias towards thinking something you have no idea often the opposite will be true if you identify oh i'm lonely at the moment i'm lonely blah blah you're stuck in that rut if you you could text someone something you're one of your friends

they'll be oh i'm actually having a dinner party tomorrow do you want to come or you bump into someone at the fucking um shops oh yeah i haven't seen you in ages are you free actually tomorrow because i'm doing that you never know no you never know never know and also you never know what other people are thinking like i think we get quite assumptions of like oh they mean more to me than i mean to them yeah they hate me now or i was really annoying the last time i saw them and blah blah blah and you just actually don't like you need to humble yourself a little bit you don't know what other people are thinking and you don't know what other people are thinking about you most of the time because you will have this bias that's so like critical of yourself also i know i said this to you but i don't think i ever said it publicly but the nicest thing happened like a couple months

ago now i was on the train i did tell you about this because yes like literally then i kept this going um not really okay well we have we have awareness of each other but you know you never On the train, I did tell you about this. Oh my god, yes. Have you literally kept this going? Not really. Okay. We have awareness of each other. But you know, you never know. We introduced the idea that it could go. But anyway.

Anyway, so what happened was I was on the train with my dog. Don't know where I was going or why or when. But I was on the train with my dog. and i had kind of like not the carriage to myself no that's not fair to say but there are a few people in there with me they were invisible they're irrelevant they were relevant and not relevant to the story this girl beautiful girl in fact got on the train and sat right down next to me in in the literally the seat next to me and i looked around the carriage. I thought that's peculiar because there are a lot of seats here up for grabs.

And it's intriguing to me that a girl of your of your manner, just, you know, beautiful girl as they exist in the world would come and sit next to me. What's your intention? What's going on here? Yeah. What an honour actually. And I think my dog was kind of attractive. You've an adorable little dog it's the little dog he draws and he did draw he drew her and i get it but we had the nicest conversation and we were talking and talking and i thought god we're going stop after stop we were actually getting off at the same stop

stops were passing stops passing i thought i'm gonna take my other airport out because i'm no there's no way that's a bold move yeah no we're having a conversation yeah and by the at the end of the thing when we got off it was like we had a little hug and it was like oh social media yeah blah blah blah and we exchanged and it was like i've actually just had a nice conversation with a stranger that is so fucking weird like rare rare with a girl i feel like is different like that i feel like i completely agree i meet girls like over time like it will be like we go to the same thing or like we do this and then it's like oh okay we still you know we're wearing down on each other sort of thing it's kind of i don't think through like shared proximity that you share people as well we're just yeah friends now yeah or like oh that's a friend of a friend oh now they become your friend

yeah but i think as you get older and like if you're not at uni anymore and if you're not maybe working in like an office or whatever or like you're working with people who are not maybe in your typical demographic for friends i think that's so great because i think it's actually really important to keep a few people around you who are like from a different generation from a different area of life or whatever blah blah but i think if you're looking for more like like-minded people in life i feel like something i've learned so much over the past few years is just how easy it is to like put yourself out there and just be nice to people and just see how you feel in conversation with someone i know it's like if it actually feels mental to do yeah it does it really does it really is like it's almost like it's embarrassing to pretend that you don't want

to make friends here guys it's embarrassing like we're being embarrassing on this planet to pretend that embarrassing but it's not embarrassing no and i'm all the time not all the time but i often will say to people why we're not friends let's be friends like oh my god hi let's be friends yeah and it depends it depends you can tell when someone but you can tell when you're vibing with someone yeah and i think sometimes as well you get yourself into that awkward thing of like oh i can see you know this is a hot day we're having we're both having a good time this is and now i'm not going to be able connecting on a level yeah something's happening here and we're both what going to

be too awkward to be like oh let me get your instagram let me get your number yeah oh what are you doing oh why don't we go to that together that sort of thing but it's like just life is so guys life is so short and i promise you no one gives a fuck no one gives a shit scenario what scenario it doesn't happen or they say no big deal you say someone or you're they're not relevant to you you say to someone they go i don't really have Instagram. They say that for life. And then you move on. Honestly, you move the fuck on.

You move the fuck on. But there are so many people out there that they're going to make you laugh and stuff. Why would you deny that for yourself? Do you know what I mean? ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois.

Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson, and this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. a cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com okay oh go on you go i can see the look in your eye no i'm just i i just think it's a you're right with like the small thing that it takes to renew a relationship or like form a new one and i also think like if connection is the thing that is like fundamental in life one of the things i don't know what they'll probably be like safety connection and probably something else um kind of depends who you ask fuel and what's it oxygen to make a plane um if those are the fundamental things you need connection in your life

sometimes it's a very small thing like when i made the decision to join the community cafe thing that i do such a random decision tiny thing but i have literally got an entire network of people that i didn't know at all yeah i had no idea who anything i've been living in this town i was born in this town i came back and i thought oh my god i don't all my friends have moved on they don't live here anymore what can i do some of them do but what can i do i need like uh i need a thing of life you know you need you need these things and i have people that are 85 years old that are giving me a listening lesson in a week like i have middle-aged women that i'm friends with uh 14 year old boys like they are yeah genuinely of all the spectrums of life and 80 odd men that come in and buy coffee from me that i that i know now and all this stuff and it is actually

i think so essential and that wasn't in the obvious place to look like it's not the obvious decision to go and do something like that it's not um it's not always in the place that almost makes sense for you but i think there are little hubs of community all over the planet to be honest and those are amazing places to go like they are if you look for them you will find them they are if you look for them you will find them whether it's like a fucking drama club like a cooking thing like yeah running whatever whatever you like there will be hubs of these things and they are um kind of hotbeds of community and like connection and like doing good things for people it's actually insane the like quality of life that that has given me yeah and i really highly recommend seeking them out i think that is the one of the

biggest like underline underline underline because as well because it kind of um subverts that like conventional idea kind of the idea as well that we've been like indoctrinated into of like this is who you make friends with everyone is born in the same year everyone in the same year group oh you're all collected together everyone from the same kind of social class and background oh yeah the same gender you've been born in the same year you're the same gender you're kind of also you like the same clothes it's like you're the same kind of section of like intelligence and looks as your friends it's just there's so many things that are narrowing down who you kind of should

be friends with and that's why as well like those people who it's like yeah your best friend isn't going to necessarily be like the 80 year old man who buys the coffee from you and that might be weird i yeah but it it is it that's the stuff that's real that's the stuff that cuts through for example all of the messages saying oh what makes me feel lonely it's fucking fomo and being sat at home on my phone when i see everyone on social media and everyone from my friend group out and about doing things and i'm on my own yeah that's the real shit that it's like yeah no it's not aesthetic to have have a kind of a WhatsApp group with like the kind of 40 year old mom who works in the office and then the

guy who's the admin guy. All of it. Like it's not aesthetic. Life is not aesthetic. But it's important to like surround yourself with weird, strange, unconventional, ridiculous, fun and stupid people it's so important for us to all be human beings on this dumb weird planet together and also oh no you've forgotten it is that it's just it's just yeah it's just teasing me let's just keep me on my toes yeah

and also i really do think and this might be like annoying for me to say because i think when you're feeling really isolated and really lonely this is just going to be annoying to listen to but i do think it's i mean it's a compliment i think if you're i do think like you'll be given in life what you need so for example when you were looking for that like something just to kind of spruce up your life and just kind of give you a new perspective whatever shake things up a little bit and you started yeah something different and you worked at the cafe and you're still working the cafe and it's fun and it brought you like new relationships a new routine new structure it did exactly what you wanted new kind of um new role everything skills like yeah

different life experience not online it opened your life world yeah real world and it opened you up to new experiences new things whatever it was something you needed and life gave it to you kind of at the proper moment as well as i wouldn't have had that last year like it just wouldn't have happened in the same way yeah just completely different but so right and almost like something that doesn't necessarily fit um it doesn't always have to fit your plan or like your desires but i think that's the thing that was so interesting about it that and people are shocked when i say that i do it like the podcast is going well i'll say that the podcast is a Like the podcast is going well. I'll say that. The podcast is a good thing.

It's going well for us. I don't need necessarily to be working, washing up. I don't need to be doing that like monetary wise. Thank God at the moment. I just don't. But I don't. And there'll be many, many, many points where I have needed to. Many times that we have.

It doesn't necessarily fit the script to be going to that amazing spotify wrapped thing and then the next day getting up early and like fucking opening up a cafe like it doesn't make sense really and a lot of my a lot of people that i've spoken to are like why are you doing that like because life isn't binary but i think isn't one thing and but i think that was one of the things i really had to think to myself of like why is that drawing me like it it kind of goes off track to a load of stuff i'm doing but i also just think i think it's so important and the fact that it's questioned makes me want to do it makes it even more right now uh-huh because it doesn't fit my back like yeah yeah prison can't say but i think that is why it's important because it doesn't it doesn't fit that prescriptive idea of

like roles and success and i think as well like it was something that you were toying with i think when you left london was like the awareness of what am i doing where am i going yeah like what are my values like as a human being like what am i prioritizing because i think you are someone who fights against ideals and like um kind of rules and stuff and i feel like no but it's true i think a rebel yeah no i literally think to the words out of my mouth i honestly think like you doing this is just one of the ways that you like rebel against what is encouraged of you like as a young woman um i think it's so important i think real world stuff when you're in it you would look back and be like oh jesus i was really

in a bubble i think you realize actually what just even um you're making your life so much smaller i think yeah but i even think this when when i see you like whenever we hang out yeah i would just with anyone i'll when you're in a conversation with your friends you realize that there is no substitute for really being in the room yeah with your friend and laughing all the stuff so much of what we do i'm we're speaking right now through a laptop and i feel like i'm with you but whenever i'm with you i'm like god you don't realize what is missing from something until you're experiencing oh yeah yeah that was missing or like not even missing but that is also good yeah yeah there is important it's really actually

like i was saying sorry i was laughing this morning i was up at 4am and i couldn't get back to sleep and then i was like laughing to myself about definitely when we went to thought park thank you so much that you took me to thought park my birthday and i really want to go um to have you seen there's a universal being built in england yes and we should go in like 2035 when that's done um first in line in fact yeah yeah we'll be there we maybe could work as um the characters or something like that i'll do anything i'll do fucking anything i'll do anything um but i was really laughing to myself last night thinking of us it was like the end of the day like it was literally pitch black everyone's cold everyone's going home and we were on tidal wave just going around and we said can we go around again it was like us just completely soaked on

like this log ride would you call it a log ride in a different country the biggest wave you've ever seen hence the name tidal wave it's like a slow motion wave of water that just comes at you it punches you in the face i was shocked actually because it's a ride that i've been on so many times in my life but when we went on it those two or three times how many times we went around on it um i was shocked with how big the way we were absolutely soaked and i had the genius idea of asking the woman who was cleaning the toilet in thought park so kindly to give us some of those plastic bags that she was using the bin bags the bin like this to put our wet clothes to change into and i used that i was walking around the like on the fucking station the train stations with this big bag this big bin bag of all my wet clothes and yeah no

literally and i sat on the train on the train on my own why am i always on the train sat on the train on my own with this bin bag bundled up and i was laying across the seats using it as a fucking pillow a wet bin bag like dirty wet clothes but it's necessary it was but we had the best time but we also had a bit of a weird dynamic with the guy it was like a fucking 16 year old boy running the ride and he was like we were like where's the best place because we were the let's put this into context we were the only people on the ride yeah also kind of begging them to let us and we were like is it okay if we go on this ride like it wasn't running and we were like can we go on and we were like the little kid we were like please where's the best place to sit to get the least wear and we said go at the front trust me trust me trust

me and i was like you're sabotaging us i know it and we had like a bit of a weird sort of shtick with it we did yeah and we went on obviously got soaked and then we came back so we were like you betrayed us and then we went at the back and we did see that he soaked and then we came back so we were like you betrayed us and then we went at the back and we did see that he was right we got even more so the front is the right place to sit by the way guys um ah one last thing because just because i saw this like response on instagram i thought it was so good like so true so accurate of when you're feeling lonely someone said when i feel like shit and no one like notices or asks me about it and then put in brackets it's because i'm bad at communicating it and it's so true that that feeling is so isolating like

essentially when you need something from your community and for whatever reason you can't articulate what it is that you need but that lack of um almost like you're not being seen by them is so painful even though we could so easily fix it by literally just saying hey seffy i need this from you do you know what i mean but it's like why am i putting you through this test of i need seffy to notice that i'm not feeling good before that is the trick that is it's i'm putting my fingers in a cross. Yeah, don't do that. No way. Honestly, you think as well you're setting them up for failure. You're actually just setting yourself up for failure.

Setting yourself up for feeling shit. That is one of the things. So have you ever listened to Esther Perel? No, never. She is a relationships. She's a council, what's it called? Couples therapist. She's the world's first relationships couples therapist. She probably the world's leading i would say oh wow um she's really

super successful and she has like a show i don't know what it's called can't remember probably called like couples therapy congratulations and she's also got a podcast and she was also on diocese ceo recently wow um but i'm kind of interested in her take sometimes i think she's got a good insight because she's an amazing therapist yeah um and that is one of the things that i don't even know if she has said this but i think i that's what you have to come up so much in couples therapy that it's like because it's such a thing in relationships that it's like i want you to just do it without me asking i just want you to know how i'm feeling that i'm how are you i'm fine and i think she was talking about something like i don't really know why i brought her up actually but i definitely heard it from her but i have no quotes from her

yeah yeah but go listen to her yeah um but i do feel like that's so something that would come up in couples therapy of like you expect someone to know something about you because you feel close with them but especially when you're bringing gender into things there are certain things that are just not going to be in people's minds like you i could not get a man to think in the way that i think well i just want you to know that i feel like this is like but you would never even begin to think like that like you would have to really put yourself in my shoes it's like actually i think there's such an importance of not building up that resentment of like they didn't notice that

and they didn't notice that yeah and they're not picking up on that it's like why don't we just talk i think when you feel yourself doing that. And one thing that I, one of my friends once told me they were doing this. And I immediately was like, don't do that. They were in a bit of a shitty thing with one of their friends. And if this is you doing this right now, I'd speak directly to you. Oh. One of their friends hadn't reached out to them in a while.

And they were like, I'm'm just gonna leave it and see how long it takes i'm not gonna message them i'm just gonna see how long until they message me yeah i think maybe that would be an interesting thing to do if it was someone you're dating maybe to see how interested they are in you but i'd also say just fucking communicate but when it comes to friendship especially i think what game what are we playing what are we playing is that i think as well when you're invested in a relationship if it's a friendship relationship whatever whatever it is you're invested in something and i say this all the time and it's relevant for me and you and it's relevant for like every relationship that i value in my life if i'm with you right

sephie and wing okay i'm with you we're friends we're podcast podcast um extraordinary masters of the field if you will we're a real we're a force we reckon with so it's everything right we're on a team that's how i see it anyway yeah we are on a team this relationship to me is the priority it's the most important thing yeah so if something were to come up it is not me versus you fighting it out fight fight fight it's me and you versus the issue that we are fighting to solve and i think if you are invested in someone your relationship is important to you seeing that other person as your team member and there will be times where like you're fucking human and you get annoyed and you yeah you snap or like whatever you fight them oh you will not

physically but yeah like something comes up many points yeah there'll be points where you lose sight of that but i think trying to keep sight of the fact that you are never fighting them you are both a team and you're fighting whatever issue it is that's come up that you're trying to solve it's you two together as a team until it isn't for example if you're in a romantic relationship isn't serving you etc etc goes without saying yeah but i think knowing that you are connected and invested in something that's the most important thing definitely and the feeling that you're trying you're wasting your own time playing games yeah like some in those things usually it's like i want to prove that i'm right i want to just prove that i'm right but

actually has it ever happened to you and i'm sure it has where you've been battling out to be like the person that's in the right and you are in the right and that's acknowledged and it's like doesn't really feel that good like yeah now the person that i love and value all that stuff is in the wrong and i'm in the right and they've wronged me or whatever and they've apologized now what yeah okay was that really worth all of that rather than just like acknowledging what's actually going on here it's like we both really care about each other and it doesn't really matter who's right and wrong because we're both human and we all make mistakes all this stuff and we're trying to work to like build our relationship again or

um recover from that like hiccup or whatever it was and just like grow stronger yeah but being right often oh that's the least of our worries guys that's the least of your worries doesn't really matter don't worry about it what does that even mean and what no literally and what and what oh god it hurts but i think losing i think trying to keep sight of that you know when people are like relationships take work it's like no that's the kind of work that i think is important of like trying to keep sight of what's important to you and like i think the vulnerability of like how you actually feel in a situation trying to hold that awareness of like oh i'm i'm putting you down but actually i'm for example just hungry oops yeah that sort of thing it's like i'm tired i'm having the awareness of that yeah it's like let's just go there are many things

that are actually it could be going wrong yeah and it's human to lose sight of that and like get angry and be snappy and just be shit sometimes but i think trying as much as possible to like keep that awareness of what are we actually fucking fighting for yeah it's so important and on that note wow what an amazing episode what an amazing episode great episode though i must say congratulations on that congratulations well done congratulations for getting through it harry that was amazing guys harry and i'll speak directly to you if you're feeling lonely we love you we're sending love we're sending good vibes so much if you don't hear from us assume the worst you