Goes Without Saying - how to let go of insecurities: your self-acceptance era

Episode Date: February 14, 2022

once we overcome our insecurities, self-loathing tendencies, negative self-talk, low self-esteem, people-pleasing, self-sabotaging behaviours and social media addiction, it’s over for you. join the conversation every monday.come and chat in our book club!speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram!you’re invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/zuPH7gyeGp Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Out Saying. You're listening to Goes Out Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. And this is a long episode, I think. We're obviously very very insecure sorry bless you not in the intro bless you we also just took like a two minute break

after recording to talk about Ted Lasso is he hot or not let us know um this is a good episode I think we kind of talk about what we think on like fake it you make it faking confidence pushing yourself out of your comfort zone those sorts of things we talk about where our insecurities come from where is it all stemming from why do we all hate ourselves we talk about social media we talk about little tips and tricks that you can carry with you throughout your day to be fucking invincible. Amen. Okay, here we go again. You said you had something to say.

Yeah, but then I thought, do I want to start with that? But no. Let's start with it. I guess I have to. Okay. Well, okay, let me set the scene. I was thinking for this episode, like, I think we go on and on and on. I think maybe even our mission statement.

Don't get taking notes. Yeah, it's off the record just between us and you. Our mission statement is something like we hope that you feel a bit better about yourself by listening to the podcast. By contrast of listening to these two fucking freaks. We hope that if you listen to us, you feel good about yourself. You'll think i'm not so bad after all it like it could always get worse yeah it could definitely get worse i've seen the pits and i'm not there i've looked into the eyes of chaos and i don't like what it looks like

and i was kind of thinking like our whole thing is just we go on and on about like trying to hopefully be like a tiny part in you trying to shake off the things that hold you back or make you doubt yourself or you know I was gonna say yada yada yada which is a throwback oh my god I get a throwback to a place I didn't like I don't love it for me someone who says yada yada yada it's Jim Carrey it gives me a um what's it called flintstones it gives me a flintstones yabba dabba doo that's what you're saying that's what i'm thinking not good right it gives me the vibe of like good afternoon good morning and good night or whatever kind of gym vibes awful nice like real um like bad bad humor great well that's where i'm at um happy to be here guys anyway um yeah we're just trying to help basically i hope that's coming

across try as we might we are really trying to help You must feel better about yourself now. You haven't said yabba dabba doo to the internet. I haven't said that. You've said it now twice. Somehow in this whole thing, I've managed to come out of this not saying it and you've said it. Right, well, I was actually thinking, I was having a bit of a moment.

You know when you just start thinking and the thoughts start coming and they don't stop coming? And not in a bad way, but I was just, you you know with my thoughts and let me think about how i want to say this without sounding like completely insane i don't think it's possible just bear with me i don't know if i believe in what i'm about to say again this is just off the record just between us three yeah insecurities as much as it's like you can work through them and whatever blah blah they do make up who you are obviously with a ton of other shit all the good stuff and whatever but your insecurities do make you they and they can be

quite specific to you and i think the way that people have you know people's relationships the way that people move through the world the way that they act in their job everything some of that comes from their insecurities right or she's already yawning no i'm not yawning i just you you just yawned you just you i thought you prefer me to say yabba dabba doo i thought i masked the yawn you never mask the yaw i see right through it you see it every time but it's not because i'm bored it's just i think i just have a yawning problem shakes head i just yawn at everything no because i'm hanging on every fucking word i must have a boring problem no no i'm so sorry anyway don't i don't know what it is it's just my face is just weird it does weird things without my control you do your but it's the masking of the yawn that you that is my favorite thing because it's like oh she's not yawning she's just pulling the weirdest most

unnatural face it's like what wouldn't it just be better to just outright yawn at me because i don't even realize i'm doing it it's like a weird fucking no i don't even know what it is but i'm so sorry there's no way on my board um i completely agree i've been thinking this a lot recently with have you well just in in terms of we are quite in sync these days well we are in the sense that we watched that up to episode five of euphoria without talking about it and we both said what episode of euphoria are you on five perfect we'd never spoken about euphoria before well we had we had spoken about it right i don't know we're not enough to be like shall we both watch it no no but we'd spoken about it because i went into it thinking so maybe if you don't want me to say this i'm sure i don't

know why you wouldn't know i'll say anything fuck i've already said yabba dabba doo it's really not as bad as it can get so if it was like i'm i'm i tried to watch you for and i couldn't watch it it's just too much it's just too like it's bleak and whatever blah blah so i went that was our conversation so then i went into it watching it thinking i'm watching this on my own so he's not watching this yeah but then i was thinking thinking thinking and then like a couple days later you were like by the way i've changed my mind euphoria i'm loving it and i said this is great news i've been rinsing it i've been tearing through it yeah i think it was i watched that first episode and i was like well basically so someone in our book club said that we were talking about the idea of an unreliable narrator and someone said oh euphoria is quite a good example of an unreliable narrator

and i thought you have me hooked nick carraway is the the god of the god of unreliable narrators. I'll fucking watch anything with an unreliable narrator. Yeah. Watched the first one. I thought, oh my god, you can't handle this. Let's be real. It's giving you Skins vibes. You won't eat for days after watching this. You can't watch this. Days passed, days passed, days passed. Found myself thinking about it quite a lot. I saw a video ofney sweeney crying because she was trending for being ugly and i just thought i hate the world i have to watch this stunning show because if she if she thinks she's ugly then it's all a fucking lie anyway so i can watch this and now i'm obsessed yeah and now i'm obsessed obsessed obsessed the stars started aligning to make you watch it it's good we're

really late on it so this is probably quite boring but everyone's yawning beyond late and also it's like we can't move for spoilers i'm quite good at skimming them my whole explore page on instagram oh i click on everything i see do you sephie i think not even euphoria wise, I click on everything I see on the internet. Oh my God. I had quite a fun thing that whilst I was watching euphoria, I don't know if I've ever said this on the podcast, but sometimes, sometimes you get, well, I had quite a funny thing where I was watching euphoria

and the whole time I'm like, she's so stunning. She's so stunning. Everyone's so stunning. Zendaya's stunning. Barbie in particular is stunning oh my goodness and i saw i was on our instagram account sephine wing and i saw a dm flash up so i saw the beginning of it and it was like oh my god this kind of looks like wing and i thought oh god never the words you want to see it's always so nice but still i assume it's gonna be fucking anyone the devil

herself literally i'm always so convinced i'm like here it goes here's the evidence that i needed that i'm a piece of shit here we fucking go and i was looking on the sephi and wing story to be like sephi must have put something on the story of like a piece of shit and someone's replying being like this looks like wait do i mean i was like who's on the fucking of like a piece of shit and someone's replying being like this looks like wait do i mean i was like who's on the fucking story i was like tapping through like just your mind is just running riot yeah i'm like who who is this person talking about like there's nothing here that they could be replying to and i looked meanwhile euphoria is on pause on the big screen right in front of my eyes and it was fucking barbie and i and they said this

looks like wing and i thought you know? She fucking does look like a wing. I think she does. I see it. And this is why I sent a voice note to Sephir being like, I know I'm an artist and I know I'm insane, but I thought she looked like me for years. So it's quite a nice confirmation. You should,

I said this on the voice note I sent back to you when you told me that exact same story. And I'm going to send it back. The exact same thing I said. You should watch the style like you video with Barbie. I've seen it i've seen it i was gonna say to you i've seen it yeah okay you've seen it because that's when i was first introduced i had to reply to all the other shit that we were talking about because that's when i was first introduced to her and i was like who is this girl like oh my god i'm in love and i've been in love since then but not enough to watch euphoria but her storyline i know there's super problematic stuff don't tell us all about the 16 17 year old they're

young we know it's super problematic i also yeah this is a podcast dissertation yeah i can't get into it her storyline about a 16 year old being a sex worker blah blah blah blah blah oh my god i am so obsessed with her character just the humor just the oh just everything about it i am so obsessed well it's been such a it's so fun that we're both watching it at the same time i know it's been so fun so rare as well that we would so rare we never in sync in any aspect in our lives no that's weird isn't it yeah anyway god right so i was sitting in my misery back to where i began but i wasn't really miserable i was feeling quite good believe it or not and i was thinking about insecurities oh right and you started saying that you were thinking about insecurities too i probably was

that sounds like me um i think i've been thinking about insecurities yeah in terms of just in my usual observations in just my life where i become a bit of a i think i'm a bit of a social scientist and i kind of oh i know we are 100 i think i just quite like to tinker and tamper with people's lives at this point oh you you go in and you uh you're in the field i can't help myself but offer some really like bad advice to everyone i speak to just like there's definitely people i was speaking to recently where it's like do you not think and oh my god i do it too where it's just like the you're living you're living like a weird fake life where it's like your sort of avatar that you picture yourself as you're making decisions for that person but

actually no one's even viewing you as that anyway right just the conversations i've been having in my little life have been all around like dating and relationships and people making decisions people are making bad decisions are they i think i've been seeing some errors being made that i've been trying to um wow point out and make everyone feel bad well i was thinking about insecurities in the way of like, it just kind of shapes who you are. And so we asked on the story, can you often trace your insecurities back to when they first started? Now, currently we have 61% saying yes and 39% saying no. Because I personally think, yeah, I often can. And that was kind of what I was sitting and, you know, I joke in my misery but i was actually as i say feeling all right and i was thinking about how all these small things just like work

together to shape you so like for example you start to think this is not an insecurity you start to think for example i'm a morning person yeah he's been a morning person i start to think oh i'm a reader i've always been a reader yeah building your identity oh i'm bad at math all these little things yeah building just it becomes yeah completely building your identity oh i'm bad at math all these little things yeah building just it becomes yeah completely building your identity and i feel like insecurities i don't know i was just thinking about it because i was thinking about how this one insecure it's not even an insecurity of mine there's one thing that i have in particular which i don't know if it will be obvious to you sephie probably not okay but it's the kind of thing where like sephie if you're in a bad mood

or you know i'm friends with someone whatever someone in my life their car wouldn't start it's like i know it's not my fault that they're in a bad mood because their car wouldn't start but it's my job to lift you out of your bad mood and make things better and make you happy so if i can't do that then i have failed as a human god and i think this i'm giving quite a lot here that is i think this is the weight of your world on your shoulders this is kind of the root of my being one of the biggest things that like make me who i am is that i think i have my existence on this planet is based on how much i can keep the peace and keep you happy and if i can't make you happy then what's the point of me so there's one or two people out there who

can resonate i hope we're resounding somewhere i don't even know how to explain the look on my face bewildered but it's the kind of thing that if sephie's upset someone close to me is upset it's like i totally understand that i might not be the reason that you are upset it's not that i feel bad for making you upset i get that i haven't but ultimately i failed because i haven't been able to make it better i haven't been able to like i should be so good that i can bring you out of sadness and into happiness that you don't care that your car wouldn't start anymore but you can't always do that guys you can't do that I think it's rare that you can like how do you cope then when there are the situations where it's like this person

will never their problems will never be fixed in that there's always an endless stream of shit which is a common thing how do you cope when people are just perpetually sad badly badly you cope badly it's ridiculous but i think i've just really i had it in that moment where i thought this is a big rooted in my lack of self-worth my insecurity basically means that it's hard for me to function when i've when someone around me is upset it's kind of um the people pleasing thing to an absolute extreme to the nth degree yeah did you ever understand that the nth degree no i was just thinking what is that from i was lost at times table is not gonna lie it's from maths is it yeah i thought it was like a kind of show the nth dimension like

it's kind of a space thing that's fun yeah i think it's a maths thing well everyone's getting in but everyone's laughing you're talking to the wrong person i'm not gonna help you came to the to the english table you've come to the english department i'm afraid the maths department's two blocks down you're actually sat in the humanities you need to leave we're social scientists you're in the social science department show yourself out so that was what spurred me on yeah i mean i can i get the it's kind of motivated from a nice thing because i kind of think there's the two parts of yeah it's motivated from like a sense of fuck my purpose is to make other people feel good which is good and

bad but i would say mostly that isn't your purpose at all that's not how most people i think it's not how i see your purpose at all to make other people feel good you i see it as sweat to be the stunning girl you are thank god thank god getting tired but then i also see there is a nice thing that it's like it's also motivated by like empathy kindness and wanting other people to be happy which is really nice as well like there's a quality in that that if it's born out of insecurity it's also born out of an element of love as well but is it is it love is it love i hope it is i think it is okay thank you because you're a loving person i don't i never feel say you're trying to help someone with an issue.

I never feel like that's a thing to try and make you feel good. It will like to make sure you haven't felt. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named francois is so gay these rams are gay i'm studying gay animals does that mean i'm gay so why don't more people know this i'm owen ever i'm lane caplan levinson and this is a field guide to gay animals a podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part.

Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts. Everywhere. ACAST.com. I do genuinely feel. It's my duty. It's my duty. It's not.

You're duty free. You're in duty free right now. Which is why I can't cope when it's like, God, our DMs are flooded of duties. Duty calls, honestly. Sorry, I have to hang up. They're all duty calls. People need advice they're

going to uni they're having breakups they're doing all these i need to help i can't though no but anyway so this is the core of my being is i just really had a realization of this is quite a big thing for you like you've actually got an issue where like if my boyfriend is stressed out about work i get that i'm not his boss it's not my fucking fault but this is my job i must be a fucking failure no but no but anyway just thought i'd put that out there because i think that's quite a common thing it must be it's that must be so intense because i do get it to a certain extent like but i think i only get that with the people where it is kind of my job to fix it right i my family my close friends it's like

okay right we'll fucking work together and we'll fucking sort it but i definitely i i don't know because there is definitely the like for example scrolling through the messages for example for this where it's people saying i can't go swimming because of my body blah blah blah where it's like i need to fucking fix this oh my god oh my god oh my god social issue it's too much but i just think you can't you can't it's like so unproductive well completely course completely but it really has shaped my being so that was the kind of realization because i think it's interesting to think about and i know where that well maybe you know there's a million reasons why i might be like that i could have had that kind of disposition anyway but i really completely see that as you know in my baby

youth in my infancy this was something that i was learning from the adults around me that like i needed to be there to soothe the situation and to keep things peaceful good and like peaceful and like happy yeah so i just think it's interesting when you can identify where something has come from because i feel like with insecurity sometimes if you go looking deep enough into the depths of hell into the pits as i go with my hard hat on and my torch i don't know it's interesting right it's so interesting i genuinely think so many people will relate to that well everyone's got insecurities no but in the sense of that specific one i think that must be so common like yeah feeling as if it's your job to sort out the mess that we find ourselves in and not to sort out the mess that we find

ourselves in. And not even sort out the mess, but also like, I could distract you. I could do anything. I'll do anything. I'll do anything. Tell me. Don't even tell me. Let me figure it out in my mind. I already know what you need. But not possible all the time. But anyway. That must be fucking exhausting. I think we need to move on. You look quite knackered all of a sudden. Now the yawns are going to start coming through exhausted just thinking about it no i i'm all mean that must be exhausting like that must be a lot what if there's a if there's a person in the street that's like like for example the guy in pret that serves you that i think we've spoken about some guy in prep

before the guy in pret says i've got some issues going on today would you think oh god i've got to make this guy happy yeah i need to know that he will walk away thinking i had a good interaction with her she relieved some of the thing like she she you know she's worthy she's the goddess that was sent into pret to buy her oats latte yeah yeah i need to come down like an angel and say you know what forget the coffee let's try do you know what i mean i do completely know what you mean okay shall we go on to people's points enough about me okay i thought this message was great somebody well i look great but you get what i mean somebody said sometimes i won't go to places where cool people quote unquote work oh brackets record stores vintage stores certain coffee shops etc because i'm afraid of embarrassing myself in conversation with them by sounding dumb or stuttering a lot it makes me sad because i have the urge to connect with people

i that i don't know but at the same time it scares me i suppose it must stem from the desire to be liked by everyone i come across yeah and i feel like it's a real like imposter syndrome thing and it's the classic thing of like you have rightly so you should have access to this earth and all of its shit in the same way that any other human would you can go into a coffee shop in the same way that anyone else would and it's a real imposter syndrome thing of feeling like you don't deserve you see yourself as a piece of shit and you see people go to coffee shops as cool people for example quote unquote and therefore you are not valid in that space it's almost like you think everyone's gonna be looking at you you ever had that while you're walking it's like will i stick out like a sore

thumb like everyone can see i'm the biggest loser here yeah i'm trying to fit in with them it's all it's literally one of the most awful feelings i really see that with like like yeah coffee shops like the idea of being like who do i think i am to go to a coffee shop and read in a cool coffee shop public transport i find i find that okay because there's like a mix of people it's like you're never going to be the weirdest person on the tube carriage because there's someone like peeing in a bottle and screaming in the corner yeah but i don't do you think that people what do you what are you thinking then people are looking at you thinking i think it's that people

for example a record shop oh my god it's like the coolest kind it's kind of the boys in the year above vibe it's like okay so these are all the cool indie people and i'm gonna go in and what ask for the fucking lana del rey album like it's just like who like what hi i'm a big jack antonoff fan i really am now do you have lord's superpower which i heard five minutes ago and i spoke to wing about i mean we spoke about that for about fucking half an hour before we started recording i heard one song so now i'm a big fan for example there's a shop that is really really near me that i haven't been in yet it's like a it's the weirdest like restaurant it serves like really weird two really

opposite cuisines in one but the people that work there i walk past the window and every single time i'm like they are the most stunning people i've ever seen in my life they're hot to drop they are they're all for some reason i've heard them speaking there because it's like a glass window i can hear them all i hear is just australian accents i'm thinking wow i knew you were gonna say they're Australian I knew it of course there because I for some reason only go for Australian people they're probably listening to guys that say it I don't know what I only ever go for Australian people I just hear the billowing out of the Australian accent I just think wow room full

of Australians you're going down under and I always think I need to go and eat there but the thought of going in there and like making conversation with these people i know i'm blushing i know i'm like god i should not be in here yeah what were you like as a kid did you get like that as a kid a freak i was a freak what was i like as a kid where do i start imagine the weirdest person you could then make them 10 times weirder 10 times louder than that and you were loud as a kid i was the biggest show-off this town has ever seen really yeah i was just like show-off i thought i was sharp a from from an early age even though what i looked like was more of a kelsey still stunning still stunning but imagine the person that would of a kelsey still stunning still stunning but imagine the person that would be playing kelsey not on the disney channel not on disney

channel right irl in like a back end town yeah small scale production but probably thought i was more of a sharp a vibes um what was the question what was i like as a child are you a freak when you say the word freak it really gives me the harry potter thing of freak yeah yeah you know that in the flashback in snape's um memories i i don't know him but my family know the guy that played that young snape really but i don't but like someone in my family knows him like he's someone that we're like, we know him, but I don't. That is world's worst name drop. Someone I know kind of maybe knows him. Everyone's super impressed right now.

Definitely say that when you go to that restaurant. You should definitely tell them that you know. You know, young Snape, are you familiar with the freak freak scene in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince? Oh my God. What were you like as a kid? Was that the question? No. Well, it was more like imposter syndrome.

I think it's about the way that you see yourself. Definitely. Because I think a lot of... So maybe this is true for me. I don't know. Again, off the record, please, guys. I quite like that saying off the record because it's just like everything I say, forget it. In one ear, out the other. The most absurd thing to say very saying off the record because it's just like everything I say forget it in one

ear out the other the most absurd thing to say very much on the record like we're recording microphone in front of my face off the record guys just between us I feel like the the moving through growing out of or like trying to get over my insecurities has been really helped by trying to rewrite the way that i see myself so instead of it being like i'm just the person who like couldn't fit in in that restaurant it's like of course i'm the type of person who would be in that restaurant like fucking hell like obviously fucking hell yeah like yeah it goes without saying i'd be there me little old me of course makes perfect sense of course i can talk to some australians and not blush well because it's kind of you people just believe what you tell them totally it's all

confidence within reason obviously but i genuinely think confidence is one of the most powerful currencies you can get in this world the dollar fuck it bitcoin fuck it all about confidence this world stunning the dollar the dollar the u.s dollar the dollar the u.s dollar fuck it bitcoin fuck it it's all about confidence this world stunning the dollar the dollar the us dollar the dollar the us dollar fuck it means nothing the australia dollar means absolutely the canadian dollar the what are the dollars i always have to do usd like it's like what is it i'm always trying to yeah why i'm just i get quite interested like what would this be in or like even when people on our book club i'm like they've paid in like new zealand yeah i don't like that i'm you know what it is i'm hovering over the refund button like i need to give this person the best experience it was free all expenses

paid trip to our book club it's on the house no worries do not worry about it please thank you to everyone that's joined our book club genuinely like who's without saying thank you thank you thank you i had so much fun last month we can't everything i know but i did me too but i don't want to make anyone upset upset well like if you didn't come or like if you don't care it's just like shut up let's not put it in even if you're not in the book club you're in the book club in our minds in spirit totally totally don't know what it means but totally don't cut it don't cut it don't cut it um confidence is the world's greatest currency yeah amen just in that there are people that i see in my job as a social scientist my unpaid internship at social science i um social science company trademark big label conglomerate yeah um there are people that i see

that if okay so we talk about this thing pretty privilege there's a thing that is in this world it's called pretty privilege that if you're pretty yeah but this makes me nervous go on go on say it and then i'll say why it makes me nervous people might hate me i don't you can i'll be upset but no not that i think people are gonna hate you is that i just i'm upset all the time same go on go on so there's a thing called pretty privilege we know we've heard about it blah blah blah if you're pretty if you look a certain way you get certain opportunities you get certain things okay there are people that have... Everyone's crying.

Sorry. Everyone is thinking, is this about them? It's not, it's not, it's not. There are people that I see in this world, celebrities and common people of the world, the common folk of Sainsbury's, wherever I am, that I see operating with this pretty privilege that I've been like, okay, they are pretty. When I've actually taken it back to analyse it and be like, okay, that person's pretty and someone's been like, are they it's like oh wait no they're

not they just have confidence i genuinely think confidence you can transform the way people view you through acting like a pretty person it's utterly mental when you realize it but it's like even like the the popularest popularest person might not be pretty i know fucking beauties in the eye of the beholder fucking tell me about it all of this stuff but there is there's like an objective set of rules in the society that makes someone pretty if someone doesn't fit into that it's weird that it's like oh i don't know what i'm saying so you think there's two currencies running alongside one another one is pretty privilege it's undeniable it exists but the other one is confidence and

sometimes they overlap and cancel each other out or contradict one another or i think you can trick people into thinking you have pretty privilege cool if in the in the small parameters of how you can get pretty privilege in this world but is it not privileged like not even pretty privileged then it's just that you can convince people that you are a cool confident that you're a certain type of person yeah yeah yeah i agree i think when you move with confidence you change the way people see you because you you look different now you're moving differently it's like you're not like folding yourself in half into your shoulders and like looking or i mean you're not sweating anymore oh my god it's like before you were hyperventilating and now you're not yeah you look better now yeah you look great god have you

always i mean you always look like that when you're not covered in a she now yeah you look great god have you always you always look like that when you're not covered in a sheen of sweat yeah I think that's so I think that's completely fair enough I think that's completely fair I don't know fake it till you make it hey thoughts on that I love it uh-huh have you ever faked anything and make anything the very thing we're doing right now really well we faked we totally faked it we've spoken before about when you kind of start a thing on the internet i mean you no one's replying to you no one is replying no one's asking you where's your lipstick from but you're saying oh link in the bio for the lipstick no you're not no you're not but you are kind of that to a smaller degree of course you're

not but you're saying yeah you are you're saying similar kind of things you're lying to a certain extent of course you are you're saying you're pretending that you have an audience because to get yourself to to a point where you can speak on a microphone you have to pretend you're speaking to someone so true it hurts it's so true it resounds harder than you could ever know it hurts we had to fake it with how on earth would we have sat down and spoken about fucking you know what people do people do and i think the content is all the better for it yeah i agree i think this is something that sephi and i have learned is like we just have a well i hope you don't mind me saying sephi speak for myself no speak for me too it's fine there's a lot of shame going on in like 100 i couldn't come to

and i still don't in lots of ways come to anyone online offline whatever your truest form is harder to show it's no surprise yeah no one's shocked nobody moved it's fine everyone knows that i think for a lot of people it's harder obviously to be your truest self especially when you don't know who the fuck that is yeah definitely i don't know who the fuck that is and you can't even show is a wing i don't know that even if you do know who you are you can't even show that to your best friends and the person you're dating or your family or whatever it's like well you definitely can't do it to the anonymous kind of well what else have you faked it and made it i mean so much i think if you like i spoke quite a bit about in the last episode about social anxiety i think if

you have any level of anxiety one of the most embarrassing parts of anxiety is someone finding out that you have anxiety which is the symptom of anxiety so it's this weird trap that you're stuck in which is like i don't want to blush because then no one someone will see me blushing are you a bit of a blusher i think i'm my when my social anxiety was its worst i was scared of a voice crack or blushing going red voice crack um and just being a general weirdo in front of humans um acting inhuman in front of humans showing my sort of alien self to a human yeah showing your true alien self being found out as an imposter in this world so i think if you have any level of anxiety you you have to fake it most of your

socially like most of the interactions i've had when i'm in a social situation i'm feeling socially anxious are me faking it because i have if the goal of it is just to get through without embarrassment of not feeling any kind of um guilt or shame afterwards you literally have to fake it because the last thing i want to do is speak to fucking sally over there and say did you have a good weekend i don't give a shit about her weekend i've had diarrhea yeah because i was scared to come here i've been sick all morning and slept for about 20 minutes yeah with a constant meditation playing all night yeah it's like yeah okay i'm having to fake it because sally will run a mile yeah have you ever fade it faked it and made it yeah yeah well i think the reason i'm again i'll speak for myself but i might tie you

into this as well i think the reason that we're not good at maths is because you can't it's one of the only things you can't fake it till you make it but i'm a great writer i'm great at english i'm great at these things because i just i'll sit I'm writing emails like oh just pretend to be able to write good emails totally you can perform it it's like what would I sound like yeah what would what would it look like if I had to be that person do you know what I mean do you know what it's the classic thing that they always say in English and all of the fucking humanities is why we're the humanities department of there's no wrong answer but that's the problem with maths there is a wrong answer and it's very fucking obvious when you've times two by two when you've got 19 there is one answer fuck maths it's so out of order it's very fucking obvious that

you faked it and you haven't made it you know wouldn't you say like even on my gcses i would i wrote in the corner like so i got good grades by the way but i'm just whatever i would literally write in the fucking corner like show your workings and i would just write like look this is not my strong subject please like i really need it or like blah blah or i would just like give the answer and then if i thought it's like could it could potentially be like three or four answers i would write them like over one another totally so they might mistake so i would write like 2008 yeah and then i would write like 1500 over that and then like 3002 over that well it doesn't not say that yeah it's like you can see the answer oh yeah she did write 3002 but she also wrote like 600 other options that i can't give her yeah so strange i used to do a thing um i remember

doing this in my sat and i probably did this in my gcses i think i'd probably stop doing it by times of like a levels but i remember in my sats in year six being like like i'd write out the number seven and then i would just go over the number seven like probably about a hundred times and then be like right next to it like see i got distracted or something like that i would do like a big doodle and be like oops so they'd be like oh she's just not paying attention that is that's good you know what i would do is i would miss like say like there was a page just that this page or whatever and i didn't get the question i would just miss the whole page and be like i forgot that i didn't see that page

but then you're gonna get no marks for the page. I'm not going to get any marks. I just, it was more embarrassing for me. This says a lot about me. More embarrassing to try and fail than to just be like, oh my God, I didn't even see that question. What? Totally. What? No way.

I never knew that. Oh my God. Just forget it. Just wipe it out. If I knew there wasn't a hope in hell, cut your losses. I think I'd do the opposite. I would just mortify myself. It would just be.

Do you? Honestly, looking at old papers must be so fucking funny. i do have like all of my old school work and stuff and honestly the thought of it is just like i think i would do the opposite thing like i would just fill in the last pages with just like seven thousand yeah eight times nine um that will be a bracket bracket cube square whatever was it important to you to get good grades was it important to me yeah absolutely yeah it was important to me I think it's because my parents are both really academic and I was the oldest child so it's like okay no you it was just like oh well I'm an academic person like there was no um scope for me to be it was it was just like you you are going

to get good grades sort of thing which i did but it was just still like yeah and it didn't even occur to me that i wouldn't which is really absurdly deluded but it really didn't i don't think that's deluded no but a lot of people have that experience it's just it just honestly didn't occur to me that i could be stupid which is quite insane right yeah i mean it is insane yeah yeah it is completely she doesn't know her times tables no literally so it was important to you to do well definitely it was important to you to do well totally go stop saying come on imagine i was like no i don't care what people think of me oh was it about what people thought um well my parents were not academic at all and

i was the only child so the fact that i was like this gifted quote-unquote gifted yeah basically just she's read a few books and she's pretty good like you have a natural talent i got by with a real natural talent i don't have to try yeah which honestly shot me in the fucking foot but i thought that was a good one right you have to rewrite the way that you see yourself so you can be like no i am the person who goes to that coffee shop definitely just definitely why would you not be i just don't see realistically why you wouldn't be. Isn't it a bit of a coincidence that you are the only person who thinks you shouldn't be here? Yeah.

Just doesn't seem true. Do you know what I mean? It's like, hmm. And I think that's part of what has like worked me through a lot of my insecurities is being like, okay, well, look, like statistically, this doesn't really make sense. I think a lot of this, it's a bit convenient, isn't it? It must be in my head. This is what I mean by the confidence.

It's like, it's not even about suddenly, you've been going to school, not to bring it back to euphoria, dressed like Kat from episode one, and then you're suddenly going to school like Kat episode three. Oh, you've got confidence all of a sudden. It's not about that.

I'm not saying you need to suddenly perform confidence like that, but I think it's about knowing when you genuinely build confidence as like an actual thing not the performance of confidence but when you actually build like i feel confident in myself self-worth my true being that i'm allowed to fuck up and i'll still forgive myself i think that to me is the measurement of my confidence at that moment that if i go into the room where i'm nervous i'm gonna trip up which most likely i will and i'm gonna go red my voice will crack whatever and i'm gonna go home and be like you still did a fucking good job i'm not gonna be like you have ruined your entire life you imbecile yeah yeah yeah that is the true marker of confidence and

i think when you actually build that harry you can't be touched as long as dumbledore's here you can't be touched it's nothing it's all water for ducks back or whatever the fucking saying is none of it fucking matters then it doesn't matter if yeah the people in the coffee shop thought oh she um doesn't have a leather jacket she doesn't fit in here it doesn't fucking matter as if you'll ever know as if you'll ever know what they think and also like who gives a shit who if i let me tell you something i have never once sat in a fucking coffee shop and looked around and thought judging everyone it's just i don't spend my time judging people i just don't right fucking losers do that i think people do though people absolutely do which is horrific but it's their own 100 i was

gonna say losership but like it's their own issue totally and that's the difference it's not real yeah it's insecurity that's a total lack of confidence i 100 know for a fact people do sit in their little groups judging everyone but it's purely purely purely because they feel like utter shit themselves 100 and also like no one gives a shit about you like you walk into the coffee shop no one cares no one's really looking at you no one really cares no one gives a shit also something you just said like a few little bits ago you said that you'll never know and i remember the moment that fucking hit me i was in the shower um and i was thinking about kind of everything just potentially potentially like just being-

As you do in the shower, to be honest, as one does. She's thinking, what are you thinking about? Literally everything. The whole world exploding in my mind at once. Apart from maths, I don't understand that stuff. But everything else- Don't even bring that up to me. But everything else I am thinking about intensely.

Yeah. And I was thinking about everything. And I was thinking about, I was specifically thinking about this podcast as well and thinking about, and I hate to bring it up again. I'm so sorry that you listened to a podcast where we're talking about a podcast but talking thinking about being a person that now people that i don't know have an opinion on and that being the world's most fucking terrifying thing in the world that someone is going to be

say things about how i look how i think you think i'm a bitch you think i'm not funny you think i'm boring whatever the fucking world you think about me that's's fine. That's your prerogative, is that a word? Prerogative. You're allowed to do what you want. Yeah. And I was thinking about like, that is objectively not nice to know that there are people that are listening and thinking, oh, shut the fuck up, whatever. But the most amazing thing is if there's someone right now in peru that is thinking seffy's the ugliest fucking cunt i've ever seen i'll never know i'll never know about what the girl in peru thinks about me and that is the same that is the exact same as it never happening to me it's the it's the tree falls in the forest and there's no one to hear about no one to hear did it happen if a girl in peru thinks i'm ugly to me it never happened because

i will never know yeah yeah of course people can dm people can dm things and be fucking horrible but that does say more about their insecurities and also a certain amount of it is unavoidable but the girl in peru and the fucking boy in vietnam saying that they think i'm the worst person in the world is the exact same as it never happening at all and that is fucking amazing stunning and the person in the coffee shop that is thinking oh she looks a bit out of place here you will never know it which is the exact same of it not happening. It never happened if you don't know it. It's basic social science. Oh my God.

It's so the thing that humans, I don't, I mean, whether it was supposed to happen or not is kind of a question out of, way out of our expertise, which I guess most of this podcast is. But it's really the kind of a question out of way out of our expertise which i guess most of this podcast is but it's really the kind of conversation that humans were never supposed to be exposed to like millions of other people's thoughts yeah this is fascinating and maybe we're not more opinionated we're just more exposed to each other's opinions yeah and it's like yeah the girl in peru would have thought that you were x y and z and you never have known but and now you don't know but also you might know yeah and i think this is why everyone has so much anxiety is because you're constantly it's so if you're listening to this podcast i can't imagine you don't have social media it's pretty inescapable

at this point being confronted with other people's lives other people's opinions the way that they might see you so much judgment just unspoken horrific just loitering around the place and we just carry it with us we turn over we wake up in the morning we turn over and we look at it straight away it sits with us in our bags all day ready to come out when the table is quiet we take it to bed with us we scroll for a few hours before we fall asleep we take it with us to our dreams yeah the thoughts what other people may or may not be saying about us it's so consuming and overwhelming that i actually can't fathom how any human right now is not overwhelmed like i just think by default i'm overwhelmed sephia i assume you're overwhelmed i assume the listener is

overwhelmed i can't imagine anyone being like you know what I'm not overwhelmed at the slightest I'm underwhelmed because it's soaking in everywhere even if you think it's water off a duck's back or whatever water your wings if you will it is going in somewhere and I had a moment the other day where I was looking at um I know we say this all the time it's probably boring but I was looking i was on youtube and then i looked at like my um i was going to my watch later which i always save everything to watch later i never use that feature i use it all the time i use it all the time it's actually really good well anything you see that you like you're just like yeah that's i'm not gonna click it right now but i will save it because i'll forget about it otherwise really good i think that is how i live my life i see things that are interesting i just think um no i'll forget about it otherwise. Really good. I think that is how I live my life. I see things that are interesting and I just think,

no, I'll watch it later. And then whenever I'm bored, I'm like, why is there nothing I've seen so much? It's so frustrating. Yeah. It's a really good little archive of different things because I'm not in the mood right now to watch a... Kind of 40 minute commentary on Animal Crossing Best Villagers.

Right. But I'm sure when i'm doing my hair i look i know for a fact one day i will be one day in the near future 100 and i will we'll spin back around to this we'll regroup i'll take it in when the time is right and i want to hear your thoughts on marshall and raymond 100 i want to hear your thoughts on tangy exactly yeah and i'll forget about it otherwise so i was looking at that but on the top it said like what the stuff that i've been recently watching and it would be like a whatever what did you google before vegan bento box vegan bento box something like that just a standard

video and then like 20 different youtube shorts and it's like oh yeah i was looking at a video of ariana grande earlier i was looking at this random guy talking about cars earlier for two seconds i was talking about this i was talking about this it's like this is the weirdest i didn't realize i'd been in all of those spaces this morning i completely forgot do you know what that's the crazy thing about tiktok not having like a watch history and they don't fucking have a watch history for a reason because you'd be fucking horrified yeah by design baby the thing on youtube when you're like because i do that when i listen to my ricky gervais carl boomington and steven merchant podcasts every night i go and find the one because they're like some of them are like four hours long

that like men have compiled on the internet like best moment yeah so i'll go on i'll go and look for the one that i like got like 40 minutes into last night yeah and when i scroll through the things i've watched in that day and it's like there's there is such a fucking difference between the video that i intentionally watch it's like naina's video that i've intentionally watched and where you ended up and then a video um of jonathan from queer i rating hair products yeah intentionally watch that i remember watching that and then it'll be youtube shorts it's like what tom holland tom holland tom holland zendaya tom holland tom holland is it you what i get a lot of tom holland there as well you spent 50 15 minutes today watching tom holland not 15 minutes

you've watched about 45 minutes of tom holland videos and you don't remember a single one of them by accident it's quite a crazy thing to do by accident totally by accident it's mental it's really crazy it's a lot and you what did you learn from that nothing oh tom holland looks good on the red carpet already knew it this pulls me in to somebody's point and i just thought this was something that even if you can't directly relate to it in its kind of exact explicit form you'll there'll be something in there that you've lived through this person just said i stalk my boyfriend's ex on instagram every day mamma mia and i loved it yeah and the crowd went wild because i think even if you're not necessarily stalking your ex-boyfriend on instagram every day you're probably

in a few habits that you do every day could be on social media could be off social media to be honest you're in a few habits of doing things often enough that just hurts so good that just make you feel so shit in a really vivid way like it's it's bad it's dangerous i think anything with romantic interests slippery slope treacherous like i i'm getting a thing at the moment i don't know if this is on the pod off the pod we'll see where it goes i always think off the pod because you look so mischievous now it looks like it's about to be a little juicy no no it's not it's not juicy but it's someone it's just funny because you'll know instantly who it is we've we've referred to him previously

on the podcast as the crux i think we called him once in a very old episode we could have even been higher priestess at the time i know we were like oh he's your crux i think we called him once in a very old episode we could have even been higher priestess at the time i know we were like oh he's your crux i remember thinking i don't think he'll know that he wouldn't think that i mean it's embarrassing to think like i'm her crux oh and he's not i don't think that's kind of i don't think those kind of words are in his everyday vernacular to be honest are they in anyone's i don't think he's using horcrux as a milestone in people's lives but also i don't particularly mind if he if he knows any of it um but there's this person that i definitely definitely really liked in my life and i always am getting a thing

on my email now i don't follow him on anything i don't i'm not friends with him on facebook it's just completely you're not in my life anymore i am now getting emails saying do you want to follow the cracks do you want to follow dinner wow like it's literally like don't fucking email me this it's gonna start coming through the fucking fireplace and i post on sundays literally it's like owls swarming around your house and it's like i'm at the point completely at the point where it's like i'm not even actively trying to avoid you you're just not in my life please email gmail don't come to my fucking inbox yeah and say do you want to follow him not really no you know what someone actually made a really good point on this

this is about i'm taking it to a new depth i'm really taking us to the pits when it was a celebrity had posted about a miscarriage that they'd had and someone made a really good point by saying that obviously there's so much there's so much going on there's so much shame everything yeah and someone made a really good point that even our algorithms will be designed to torture us it's like you've i know it's a sensitive topic like you've just had a miscarriage but you're still getting recommended um like nappies and like changing stations and like baby grows and things like that like the ways that our devices get to know us is so intimate that they really have all of the information to use for or against you totally and i think the minute like i very quickly give up my responsibility

and forget to i don't hold myself accountable in this space at all and just give into it i just click around and whatever like you said at the beginning i just click something comes up i click on it i click on everything i see yeah and it's my own responsibility to manage that because this device is not my mate let me tell you no i think you're a fool if you think if you bring your phone if you you share a bed with this little guy this little phone in your hand i really do yeah big mistake big mistake because that is cheating on you it's a big mistake this little guy is out to kill you to say the least abusive guy he's plotting your demise yeah it's not who you want in your bed to your fucking face also it's like it's nobody's fault but my own that i watched a million videos of tom holland it's nobody's fault but your own that you

forgot that you did that and that you just watched tom holland it's literally it's not you can have a go at fucking mark zuckerberg you can have a go at and i will steve steve jobs and believe me they're not good guys but also you are the fool yeah you open up tom holland every day who's the villain in that story because at some point it's you yeah well it's the person that keeps going back it's like the little injured puppy that keeps going back please show me another video of tom holland think before you need it do you really want another video of tom holland before you click on that first one because if you click on one yeah you watch 50 you can't just watch one you're a goner treacherous slope as i said yeah it's dangerous i feel like social media just if

you're if you're really making an effort to like shake off some of the shit that is holding you back or making you feel bad about yourself or just like feeding yourself doubt all of that shit i'm obviously not the first person to say it and i know we go on and on about it but i think we just need to change the way that we use social media is there anything that you're doing to do that because i think i've been trying for the last year to be trying something out well i have some rules that i've been keeping to for about a year share them please um first of all tiktok in my opinion has to go and it did go for me i think it is the the best and worst creation of all time that algorithm and you need to you can do what you want for me couldn't could not do with it tiktok number one rule can't have for me i think that's it i think

it's no what's bad for you totally and i also think my other big thing is don't go on any social media until one hour of being awake is one of my things that's a good one i am not in my right mind when i wake up it's one of also the most kind of precious times of the day in terms of your setting what you feel in that opening hour really sets the tone if you see something bad in that opening hour you're fucked especially that opening literally it's not even our five minutes it's within one minute of being awake you're in you're into um tom holland tom holland tom holland or whatever you're down the rabbit hole it's not a good idea i genuinely think for me i need just it doesn't even strictly have to be one hour but it's like i need to be out of bed yeah and maybe had like a glass of water in your right mind yeah or in as close to your right mind

as you can get definitely get out of bed maybe open the curtains have a glass of water then maybe you can have a look at your phone but i think that thing of being barely conscious and just like plugging in is just something that for me i can't do in it and that's something that i i i don't i literally don't do that anymore because it's so fucking bad yeah is there anything you do that's like i think that's great i had to make and it's the same i think that there's something to be said about breaking cycles and breaking the habit if you're in the habit of checking up on someone's social media why don't we try today being the first day that you don't go looking yeah could we try that together there's a there's a different level between the like

passive use of social media and then the like self-harm aspect of social media i think number one basic fucking ten commandment rule that's not kill number one i actually don't think that is number one number one of the ten commandments is like don't use any other god's name please i was gonna say it is something like like don't doubt me bitch yeah it's like i'm real is number one number number like seven is don't kill don't ask questions i'm real argue with the wall but number one of the social media rules surely is don't look for things that are gonna fucking hurt you i.e if there's someone why would i go looking for something that's trying to kill me oh harry have you seen the first two films we know what you're up to silly boy silly boy and don't be a silly boy don't go looking at your ex's

stuff i mean it's just i think it is just basic like you will the only person that's gonna feel bad from that is you so please don't do that it's funny i know that it can be hard when it's like an addictive thing and it's sort of it is a form of self-harm i guess but it's just block it delete the app delete whatever you've got to do just don't put yourself in that like you're just gonna feel like shit two things first thing i was in a really um or like first thing i when i was younger my boyfriend at the time his ex had really hooded eyelids and i would pull at my eyelids every single day to make my eyelids more hooded so now my eyelids are like more hooded than they would have been which is great but anyway jennifer lawrence yeah but it's just like

god you were trying to deform your face like she had a really like i don't know like flat face shape whatever she was like we were just opposites and you'd pull at your eyelids yeah i would pull them out not in a painful way but i would just pull them off you would just be all right if that makes sense and then put them back to be honest everything that any skincare video would tell you not to do i would be doing it which is ideal do you know what that's the thing with exes or like a romantic you get fixated on something or just like jealousy in general and anything that you see is the worst possible thing you could see if you saw that they look the same as you it's the worst thing if you see they look

completely different to you it's the worst thing well he also had a girlfriend who looked the same to me well both are super painful because it's like, I don't know what's worse. Just anything your insecurity is looking for, things you can pull out of anything. It's just fucking awful. So please don't go looking for things that are going to kill you, whatever. No, just let it be. Just let it be. What was the second thing you're going to say?

And then the second thing, yeah, was that I really had to break a cycle. You know about this, Sefi, I think. A few months ago, and it really was a self-harming issue it was quite a while ago now it's probably like six months ago maybe even like a bit more i would look on and i really don't so i'm not i've never i'm not like a hate watcher you know how some people like watch things because they like don't like them or whatever oh my god i know what you're gonna say yeah you're mental yeah you know what i'm gonna say you're insane i don't hate watch things i don't hate watch people whatever i don't i don't hate anyone that i'm subscribed to it's like why would i hate you just unsubscribe so

weird anyway why on earth so strange but i had this thing where i was kind of in an anthropology way i was hate visiting this these websites because and i still do kind of have this vision of like writing something about it in in a kind of i think it's i think there are some really interesting case studies on there but this the websites aren't but now i think i'm well i know i'm too close to it so i can't it's the the window that i could have written something about the those websites has come and gone so anyway but um there are these websites where people it's predominantly like women not not even young women but predominantly women will like group together and like quote unquote gossip but the majority of it is like really talking shit in quite an extreme way

on different content creators um and i would like visit my favorite my favorite gals pages like forums and scan through all of the shit that people were saying essentially about these girls i love so it would be like x y and z person who makes videos and it would be like oh my god she's put on so much weight she looks horrific oh my god she always talks about blah blah blah she's such a narcissist oh my god she's this she's that she's evil she's this she's that she's evil and it was really making me so i mean more depressed than i already am because it was making me insanely self-critical because anything that i would do or say or think is why i still say now off the record guys is why i'm so fragile and don't want to put my

name to anything it's because i would see myself anything that i could do or say or think or whatever i would see it through the eyes of someone who was hating yeah me out to attack and who was going to run off to these websites and like write shit about me or whatever because i think it was just a real confrontation of like, God, there are really, there's a lot, there are some hateful people and like hateful spaces. This is why I think it's interesting and why I would want to write something on it is because it's, people get so much joy from it. Like there's a real sense of community in those spaces

and they get to know each other and you see the same usernames popping up and it's very interesting, but it's ruining these women's lives. I'm like, I don't't know how and you can tell me all you want about how she's in a mansion and she's done terrible things i don't care i don't know how zoe sag is alive right now dealing with the amount of hate that she would have dealt with in her life and being like in her early 20s like pioneering an industry that did not really exist

before her on her own i don't know how you do that so i really had this like breakdown of i don't know if i'll survive having a podcast i don't know how because teffy and i at this moment i assume not relevant enough to have any space on there where people are talking about us but the turning point was someone had said i hate x y and z podcast i hate their podcast they're so shit they don't have any podcast recommendations and someone said oh i like i think they'd actually said i like growing with the flow and i like goes that saying a stephanie wing they talk about like imposter syndrome and blah blah and i thought i need to get out of here yeah that is just the whispers and it was also really jarring to think that someone's listening and they're also in that

space i just can't well it's kind of the worst audience being sent over it's like don't send them here please yeah exactly i'm that but it's just it's like if you're already full of self-doubt and being so self-critical it really trains your mind in a new way so i just thought i can't i'm not doing this anymore no get off the get off these websites you fucking freak why would you do that i don't know why would you do that i would literally wake up and be like oh what are they saying about xyz today look how like angry they are it's absolutely horrific and it would really make me feel so angry at them and so get so judged like as if they were judging me yeah do you know what it kind of reminds me of in the way that you were saying that they get a joy from it like there clearly is they're getting a kick out of it it is kind of

that feeling of being sat around a table of people at school or wherever the fuck you are and there's people kind of bitching about people and you can just see them almost getting like high from slagging off someone else because there's the thing of are we bonded through our hatred of blah blah blah yeah and it is so weird to see and i think there's a certain element of it certain types of people group together and it is so weird to see and i think there's a certain element of it people certain types of people group together and it's absolutely fine to dislike someone that's fine but when it gets to the point where it's like you're getting a kick grown women saying like god that baby is just blah blah blah i mean that's so fucked yeah it's like i don't know it gives me a child vibe it gives me the vibe of its children being like

i now feel better about myself because i said that her socks look embarrassing but they think that these people need to be brought down a notch and i think that was what i was oh that's so bad trying to go i mean it's like they think that these people deserve to hear this shit about themselves it's like they think that they're so righteous in what they're saying that it's like no you need to they need to tell that you're treating your baby wrong because you know you can't just go on earning all this money from sitting on your ass blah blah it's just there's a lot of envy there's a there's a class issue there's so much that feeds into it which is why it's really fascinating but i don't know how you survive that it's not it's not space to hang out is it no i it no there's there's just a thing

with there's the two issues of if you are someone that because we do have people that listen and kind of want they want to tell us their thoughts on us that sometimes aren't that nice and things like that and we don't have many of them but we have had a few of those and i do think there's something in the people that want to leave leave their mark kind of nasty comments and i don't mean critical comments that are valid and all of this stuff i mean mean comments there's something about like why why do you want to do that there is no level of self-reflection in the person that's saying zoella doesn't look after her baby whatever the fuck they're saying whatever literal nonsense i remember someone said to us remember said that we had no morals they came to our dms and was like you're you've got no ethic you've got no

compassion and you've got no morals and blah blah and i thought at least my morals stopped me from stumbling into other people's dms and telling them they've got no compassion and then they're this and they're that and they're x y and z i guess we're just different i guess we're just different i think it's an absolutely just a weird just it's just weird to me but But it completely is insecurity because it's like, well, if you were securing yourself, you couldn't be bothered to sit on this thing and chat shit about people. You just wouldn't do that. People who are securing themselves don't do that. That's not how they spend their time.

But that's the funny thing about being like, oh, they need to be brought down. It's like, they might already be down. Because I remember when we got the message saying, you've got no morals, no compassion. We were both quite down already. It's like, oh's like oh thanks like now i feel like utter shite this is why i don't i actually don't understand how people get through it you just acclimatized to that i guess anyway yeah because that's also the trees falling down in the forest and you did hear it you were actually the wood cutter yourself you were kind of skipping through the woods and the tree falls down right in front of you that's not so fucking nice but most of the time you'll never fucking

know it and i think the by avoiding websites like that i'm going to continue the forest metaphor try to at least you create an even fucking further expanse of forest and you're even further away from it by just not going on them it's like just close up the fucking forest never go in yeah build your own little commune yeah but that's kind of it it's like cultivate a nourishing environment at soul level yeah stunning where as long as dumbadoo's around you can't be touched where like at least you know when these things come crawling or like when you try and find new evidence for why you're a piece of shit you've also got this like abundance of love for yourself yeah that can just counteract counsel each other out

true confidence to me looks like forgiveness and a lack of shame and i think if you can get forgiveness self-forgiveness for well forgiveness for yourself and others and just compassion and just genuinely i think everything just comes back to love which i know you also agree with this is my philosophy the only thing real in life i remember you saying that to me by a pond and i was laughed out of town but slowly but surely i remember you saying that to me by a pond it's funny i did i did best place to tell someone that the world revolves around love it's so true and the and the older i get the the closer i feel there was everything it's so fucking obvious to me that it's like yeah that is the only fucking thing i actually give a shit about so someone's saying in peru that they think my handbag isn't very nice i don't give a fuck i don't give a fuck because to me it never happened yeah but please also be

fucking nice yeah i really do not want to hear a word about my handbag joke if you ever think we need to be brought down a notch we don't we need to we need to be raised higher so keep the love coming please please and thank you in advance please raise us up well this is quite a long episode now yeah it is so i think we snip snap snip snap we're having a lot of vasectomies going on here yeah to cut down this episode thank you guys so much for listening honestly like it's it's just really nice to get to chat with everyone on a monday morning or whenever you pick this episode up it's just nice to spend the day with you yeah hope you're having a great day um do something nice for yourself today yeah forgive yourself for something that you did that was embarrassing just be like oh it doesn't even fucking matter because it truly

doesn't it doesn't it truly doesn't i wish you could see and don't look at your ex's instagram no that is so fucking obvious it should go without saying but just please don't do that because you will cry so if you don't hear from us you don't hear from us assume the worst