Goes Without Saying - How To Not Hate Yourself Your Body For Dummies

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on the end of the year, life lessons, body-image and self-acceptance, olivia dean and raye, AI, and the death of podmas. ✷ see more ✷ youtube @sephyandwing ✷ instagram @sephyandwing ✷ tiktok @sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk

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Goes Without Saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Seffi and Wing. And welcome to Podmus, episode one. We're talking about how to accept ourselves and kind of just live within the shit that is our lives. And maybe not try and fight with ourselves all the fucking time and maybe just be a little bit nicer to ourselves. What else? I'm Seffi and I'm Wing. Did I not say who we are? No.

And it really caught me off. That's so weird. Honestly, like, that was literally like a shot to the fucking rain for me. Really pulled me back into the room of like, keep me on my toes. Anything can happen. Who knows what happened next? And I'm weighing. That's all.

What the hell? You said, now that you say it, maybe you did, but you didn't because I didn't say it. No, because I wouldn't say an I'm seffi and I'm weighing. Yeah. That's so weird. Like, what is that five years in the making? I don't even know the intro. You'll see in the video. I'm like, ooh.

That's really scary. That's really scary. Well, welcome to Pod. Enjoy. Going in. Odd. How's that sounding, by the way? Sounds really good.

How are that sounding to you? Yeah, perfect. Okay, good. Yeah. Hello. Happy Podmus. We call this Podmus, do we? Look, we got to call some in Podmus.

You know, life is what you make it. Let's make it rock. We would, well, basically, Podmus was cancelled. And it is cancelled. Consider it cancelled. Yeah, yeah. Consider it cancelled. Postpone until next year.

Yeah. We haven't cancelled it. We're just going to get going on the 1st of December, 2026. Yeah, exactly. We've got that to look forward to. It's on a brief hiatus. Yeah, it's just, we'll just push it back a little bit. Even though this episode could be called Podmas.

And it might be, yeah. And I think it should be. And we've tried to, if you're watching the video, we're trying to look festive. Jesus Christ, look at this. Like, look at us. We're in a wonderland. Yours especially is quite a wonderland. Mine kind of is my bedroom.

Well, we were saying before we started recording, we were like, I was not to say is it going but yes it is thank fucking god for that I don't want to miss that all those gems in there we were saying before we started recording we were like let's talk about like festive things and you were like well you've put your tree up and I was like well I was sobbing while I was putting it up which is a miserable image yeah but there's that and it is up it looks amazing live and well to tell the tell the tale yeah it's all right it looks it looks it looks it's great I had a somber thing where I was kind of like I'm not

lighty i was like what's the point like let's just not like i almost can't face it yeah yeah how am i going to sit down every night's four time as leber and look that tree in the eye like it's just so sad yeah there's obviously i'm bringing like a morbid vibe yeah of course how could you not but also like you know with with just some whimsy and some lightness to yeah and i look you got your tree up and like i got it up it looks it looks it looks okay it looks really good good. I think the camera is maybe to see it's a trick of the eye, some slight of hand. I don't know.

I can see a little like candy cane in there. There is candy canes, yeah. And knock crackers somewhere in there. We also had little sweet ones, like little kind of candy wrapper vibes. Your tree always looks good. Really? Your tree looks like the tree in, I think it's like Home Loan 3 or 4, where they get professional decorators in to do it.

What were you? Tell me, I'm never going to forget this. I'm never going to forget this one. Also, in Home Alone, so in Home Loan 3 or 4, it's the one where it's no longer Kevin and it's Alex. I don't know if I've ever seen. And then they get just a new kid in and then call him Kevin again. It's really weird.

And pretend it never happened. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just a guy called Alex. And he decorates the tree really shit. And then it's supposed to be a really sad thing that like, oh, they bought in like professional tree decorators. But I remember even as a kid, I'd be like, it looks really good.

It looks really good. I hope they're well paid. It looks good. Okay. Well, thank you so much, then. I can't believe you're saying such a thing. Well, mine is literally... Are you lying?

No, I know. Mine at home is like... CEDs that as a kid, like, that I dipped in glue and glitter hung up with, like, sort of the stuff you tie a sandwich back together with. I really like the sandwich. No, no, it's fucking awful. I've probably seen your tree a few times. Yeah, I like that. It's fucking hideous, my tree.

I love it, but it is very ugly. It's sentimental. No, no, but that's kind of the point. I was saying I really want... I don't know if you ever would have... I guess you would have, because you... I was going to... going to say that basically i'm going to say right okay the little dairy milk chocolate

quote unquote ornaments from like the early 2000s though i don't they probably still do them now but it would be like a little chocolate wrapped up in tin foil on a string and we would have loads of them and i would just pick them off like on like the by the 5th of December that it'll be gone yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah sorry i'm five years old yeah of course but i was going to say i don't want to insinuate that you wouldn't have had them i don't think we did off But then it seems like something you wouldn't have had one or you'll be good now. I know you weren't vegan at the time. But we weren't a house that had...

It's not a chocolate-y vibe. We're not really a treat house. It's more like you can cook yourself some kind of coastcoes if you're hungry. So for that reason, I thought, there was just some deductive reasoning. No, we definitely didn't have that. But I said I really want them. That sounds really good. I'm sure they still have them.

But there's just something nice about being like, well, I want some chocolate. Let me get it off the tree. It's really nice. Get it off this plastic branch. It's quite sweet. It's really nice. Well, I've just realised that I just realized I haven't got an advent calendar.

Neither do I. What the fuck? Why do we not have an advent calendar? What the hell? I know. I think I didn't realise until too late that it's the middle of December. Well, I saw them in November and I thought, won't get it yet. Same, me too.

I'll hold off for now and then cut it. They're probably all gone now. What the heck? No, we might get them cheap. I doubt it's heavy. That's really annoying. Something cheap in this. economy in this unit is middle of fucking December yeah who knows who knows my mum actually did like she

gave me um oh i can't really tell the full story of this she was going to give this to someone that i was like she showed me she's like oh my god look what i've got for this a child who's suffered a lot in their life this poor child she was like look what i've got and it was like the emotional support advent calendar and each day it said like a joke or something in there and i was i need thank god i stopped her Yeah, literally. I was like, you cannot give this. You cannot give this. So I now have it.

And I thank God she didn't because it's the most AI-generated shit. Like each one of them. You can't even read the writing. You're not AI writing that just like looks like words. It will be like positive carrot. And then it's like a little sort of laminated piece of paper, basically, that says, positive carrot, I may be a tiny carrot, but I believe in you. And then the next one is positive obergene.

I may be a tiny obergene. And there's one that's like, I may be a tiny and then you can't even read what it says. Something sad about I'm a celebrity is I'm seeing a lot of AI kind of, sorry, excuse for art on the, like the trials and stuff. Really? It'll be like, go, let's go to the Crox Den, the Crocs Horror Den or something. Yeah, no, it sounds good. It's like this AI crocodile.

It's not good, is it? It's really sad. I was thinking I might email them. Yeah, no, you should. You really should because it's not good. It's really sad. Like there can be a use for AI, but don't. Why? How much does it cost to pay an artist draw a crocodile?

Just don't. Just take the crocodile off. I didn't need it. No, literally. Like, have you ever had those? Have you ever had that before? Like, what of the appeal of I'm a celebrity as well is it? It feels very like handmade. You can like hear everyone behind the camera laughing and stuff. It's just like you shouldn't have bothered. No. Because now I'm actually pissed off. I'm insulted.

It doesn't look good. It doesn't feel good. Doesn't feel right. Don't get AI to create. Just don't get AI to create art. Like, you can get it to do all. all of your stuff get it to do your like maths and all of the stuff don't get it to do your fucking art no i'm sorry no it's mental don't don't just if you want a drawing of a crocodile get someone to draw a picture fucking crocodile i'll do it for you right now it's mental

it's suicidal for me literally look around um all right well that's that was very festive wasn't it yeah it was don't get AI to draw crocodile everyone suicidal anyway yeah so there's no podmus but there is there is this, whatever this is. There is this. It's just not doable for us this year in any way. And I think we were actually talking about like we want to do an episode, one of the Podmas Epps, we really want to be, I don't know if we're going to call it this, but it was kind of like the truth about this year, which you have been around it this whole, you've been here the whole time. Yeah. But like this definitely for us has been like Jesus Christ, like there's not been an easy year in any way. So in a way we're kind of excited to wrap up the 2025.

Absolutely. with a little bow, ship it off to fucking somewhere else. But, you know. I know we did have this conversation before, but once again it's been haunting me the Saturn Return. Yeah. I've been just thinking a little bit about it. And I'm kind of the tower of it all.

This is a tarot card that now is getting from bad to us. No way. From Saturn return to the tower. I've been getting the devil a lot. Oh, have you? Yeah, a lot. A lot. Capricorn Queen. Yeah, but it's kind of scaring me a bit.

But go on. Well, just in the sense of like, and we were talking about, rock bottom before we started recording. There's something about like being in the pits and from now it's truly the only way is Essex. The only way out, it's like there really is, it just isn't. I know we've said this before and I say it all the time and it's kind of like, I think some people maybe don't like it because it's not very a pleasant thought. But like horrible things are inevitable and they are on their way to you.

Yeah. They are on their way to you and your loved ones. There's no way around. haven't already be here. I think it's like it doesn't have to be horrible. I think actually if you're a person in this panic, it's like, look, you've had the horrible things before. You may be in the midst of horrible things. In abundance. They will keep coming. Good things will also keep coming, but horrible things will keep coming. Totally. It's not if it's when. And that's not to say that yeah, I think more importantly, yeah, there are always nice things around the corner. Things that you

couldn't even fathom are on their way to you. Truly. Beautiful things. And you deserve them all. Yeah. But also like I do think there's a lot. lot of power and having the awareness that challenges are happening and they will continue to happen. And that isn't the bit that you can get out of. You can't get out of the challenge. You can just get better at dealing with them. Yeah. And like knowing that they're coming and almost feeling like the resilience that you can survive them and all of that stuff. Yeah. And kind of the tower of it all and the Saturn return is sometimes things need to be kind of broken down in order to, I don't know, like what are the bricks that you're building this thing with then?

What are they made of? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. I think it's so true. Things do need to like get to a point. So it's so easy to coast through kind of semi-shit times. It's so easy just to be like, I'm not really happy, but things aren't bad enough yet that I have any momentum or like urgency to fix it. Yeah.

I think things have reached quite an emergency state. Definitely. They're in an emergency state. where it's like, okay, it's easy, I don't think we were coasting any. There was definitely a point where we were coasting kind of, we weren't happy with things, but we're the United States moving along. But like now it's at a point where it's like, and has been it like, it has been for like quite a few months now.

It brings the autonomy back. Yeah, it's like, look, okay, so something, there is only one way that it can go. It can only go up. Yeah. I was going to say something about deforestation. Go on. Well, I was going to say something. say like you need to chop some wood like some trees need to get chopped yeah

animal crossing basically yeah yeah to start and deforest some islands to to have your resources to have stacks of hardwood softwood and normal word and normal wood and just just turn on wood you need to chop some trees hardwood and soft wood loved the color of the soft wood by the way that's my least favorite one really the like yellowy creamy word yeah the normal wood is my favorite beautiful because it looks a bit like a caramelized kind of apple pie. I think that's... It's got like a soft brown.

Okay, so that's really funny because I think the soft wood looks really edible. It's almost like butterscotch. It's a bit banana split. And the hardwood is just chocolate. Hardwood, it's just almost like... It's too hard. It's too hard. Give me the soft word.

Yeah. Okay. Oh, stunning. Mm. Rich. I want to take a bite into the soft word, basically. Into the normal wood for me. Okay, nice, perfectly.

We'd be the perfect, too. We just need to find someone that likes the taste of the hardwood. Do you get what I mean? Like, we need to chop some trees. We need to break some eggs or whatever it is to make an omelet. You can't make a tomelet without breaking some greggs. Do you know that? A to toilet.

Oh, I wish you got, from Succession. Fuck me, Sep. Yes, I know it. He says you can't make a tomlet without breaking some greggs. Very good. Very good. So good. Love it.

Yeah. Perfect. 10 out of 10. Okay, well, that's what we're doing. We're breaking tomlits. And making greggs. Yeah, we're breaking Gregs. Second Greg reference, because we were saying about suing Greenpeace earlier.

Yeah, we were to our suing Greenpeace. Why is there such an environmental aspect of this? All right. Anyway. Yeah. So, yeah, the year's been tough. Can you tell? Yeah, the year has been fucking crazy, crazy in the Sephean wing kind of universe.

You know what they're up? We'll get onto this. I guess it'll be the end of year episode. Yeah, yeah. Sort of like, I don't, yeah, who knows what it will be? We are nothing if not unpredictable at the moment. Absolutely, absolutely. And I don't have an advent calendar to keep me in check.

So how am I to know what day is? Yeah, we'll get into lessons and stuff, I think. Yeah. I always like that. I always like thinking of the year in terms of like a theme or things to try and hold on to and whatever. Yeah. so what's this episode then this one we were aiming for something kind of self-acceptancy yeah yeah and

i i called it the reckoning did you i miss that um like before we started recording like just kind of like the making of like all the hard parts there's kind there's no way around it that's what you want to say that olivia dean thinks i like that yeah i don't even know what song it is but she says something like i actually have no idea what she says she said i'm going to Google it. I'll be super quick. Yeah. But I'm doing it with one thumb, so bear with. Not that quick.

What are your thoughts on Olivia Dean? I like the vibes. I just don't know her, really. But she's been recommended to me so many times, but I also think I watched a thing with a real or TikTok or something where people were saying like, they're obviously just compared because they're both having a huge

moment right now, but also they went to the Brits school together. But like, people that love Ray, people that love Olivia Dean, and people that want Olivia Dean want to like almost like I don't know what they were saying like relax and like the music is like serving a different purpose and the people that love Ray are looking for like a sort of like fiery it's like an it's like an it's like an empowering and I was just like

look I just am a Ray lover. Can't we be both? No you can you can but it was like it's just a different audience almost and I was just like look I just I never listen to sad music I never really listen to that slow music like I like the vibes of her a lot but I do it's not a comparison thing you can love both obviously but when I hear Ray God it just I just love it I love Ray like so much and when I hear Olivia Dean I just I think yeah nice but it doesn't you know it's not hitting it's fine it's I can't I can't freaking bind it she basically says something like everyone knows obviously

now Olivia Dean better than us but so you'll definitely know it when I say it guys but it's something like you know oh god i have to find it because it's so cringe it's it's cringe saying wrong lyrics it's so embarrassing it's fine we'll be hit all day she probably said something like and it's like that's me coming up with it no no oh also just saying lyrics aloud and like not singing them is it feels like you're in a genius um video it's a real like slam poetry yeah yeah it's you moved to california but it's just a state of mind it turns out no everywhere you go. If you take yourself, that's not a lie.

I can't fucking find it. I think just quote them wrong. Right, look, I'm going to use both hands for a moment. Okay, okay. It's a breakup song. Okay. Oh, no, look, it doesn't matter. That narrows it down.

Oh, look, I can't. Oh, wait, maybe I have. This is all getting cut. Nobody panic. I can't fucking find it. Okay, get it. It was something basically, like, she was, saying, you know, this isn't, this is not the end of something.

It's not commiseration. It's not a terrible time. This is the making of. Yeah. That was all the making of capital T, capital M, capital O. This is the making of. And we have spoken about this ad nauseum times of the idea of like, you know, you're on the hill start.

Like this is, this is the making of. this is the part where like your building sort of thing and it is tough and like those are the bits that like you look also like

anything that is worthwhile that I've ever had really or achieved or anything has been a struggle like we that is just the way it's been the journey has not been a smooth thing and the things that I actually have got

pretty easily in my life I probably don't feel that attached to I know for a fact our sweat and blood and like love is within this podcast like there is. much we have you cannot accuse us of not fighting for this of not like dedicating to this like you'd be a fool to accuse such a thing how dare you accuse us how dare you actually come here and accuse

like it's truly like and we're still here we're still doing it like yeah it really really is a priority to us but what is a bigger priority and i think this year has been testament to this is the thing that is bigger priorities a huge a priority to us than like the success or like financial gain or like um sort of growth of the podcast is that we are both okay individually and together and i we do this thing sometimes where it's like a sort of caesar from kind of being your hands together thing it's like we both need to be okay and as a unit okay and then the podcast can function yeah and what is happening is we're not okay so the podcast cannot function and also i'm taking the um you know it's obviously a shared thing but like i have had a

a huge reckoning this year. There's been, it's been a crazy... Well, that's really been the struggle of the year, like, of course. Yeah. For me personally. And like, I've had, you know, I'm basically taking the responsibility off of you in the sense that we have both gone through the struggle of, like, this podcast, like, being challenged this year.

But that is my doing, like... But also, I, like, it's kind of the thing of just, like, at the very beginning of this and like continued throughout this like i sign up for that like you know it's just like yeah it's a complete priority and also i we always say this but it's like there's no one i'd rather be doing this with like no one i could or would ever do this but like it's literally like you with all of the struggles that you have and all of the stuff i still sign up you know thanks always i agree honestly yeah i was going to say we've had some really nice compliments reasons, well, not even compliments, but just observations.

So many nice ones. Which has been really nice of like compliments of our duo. Yeah. Dynamic. Yeah. Lovely things. So nice. Like.

Which I, yeah, it is nice because, yeah, I don't know. It's kind of like, oh, it's obviously like, it's a bit maybe cheeky of me to say because I'm the one causing all of the shit at the moment. But I also think it is worth it, though. Yeah, of course it is. I kind of think this is. this is the, like, this is the price. It's the point. Like, like, it truly is the point.

I know my work. No, it is. And also, what's the alternative? Okay, the alternative is, um, a really sanitised, fake thing. No, it's impossible. It's just like, sign me out. I do not want it. Maybe, like, with someone else for sure.

But like, I also think that's not something we know. Like, that is not in our remit. Like, that is not at all in our arsenal. To be able to. come and doing how. It would be helpful if we could do that. I'm asking like genuinely how. Yeah, actually.

I would love to know. That's not where, that's not what we're doing. No, because it's always, always, always been, it's always, always been just like, whatever we feel and whoever we are just comes out. Like, I actually don't know how to hold something in.

And I know that you don't really either in the way of like, you can't really hide when you're speaking into a microphone and also speaking to like your best friend, you can't really hide how you feel. Like it's just not really going to happen. Why would you? On at the moment. No.

That to me, the grittiest, grubbiest, most unhinged or ugly thing will always be more interesting to me than something sanitised and like your everyday joke could come in and say it. It's just,

that is nothing to me. I agree. Do you know what I mean? Like I want your innards. I want your truth. And I was eating for dinner. I want the guts. Yeah, literally.

Like, I'm not here for like, I'm not a sanitary person. No. You know what I mean? Filthy. I'm filth. And that's what I like to spread my film. Exactly. Because that is appealing to me.

And it's the only thing I know. And it's what I respond well to personally. It's what I connect to. And that is valid. And also I think it's like I would have no. clue how to go about making the alternatives. Making anything else. God no. Like, I think we've proven

that we literally... We're not those people. We can't do it. Our lives would be so much easier if we could be like, right, okay, let's switch it all off. And Podmus, we would... Lives would be actually so much easier, but actually just not reflective of who we are and like what we want to do. You've got plenty of podcasts that are lying to you.

This will not be one of them. You do. There's plenty of people on the internet out there who... And also, like, some people are very sanitary. And I love... love that for you guys and you know you will find each other all the time but us us filth need to stick together and that's what this is literally the grimy and the dirty yeah exactly that's fine it is I like it that way me too I like it here it's the only life I know exactly I don't know the alternative okay well okay is there something I won't make it about the year because I feel like um okay in terms of self acceptance

Is there some sort of area of your life or part of yourself that you feel like you've been on a bit of a, you've had a reckoning with and you're at a point of acceptance? Do you know what? I do think I have reckoned, but I think it's happened so slowly and then also really suddenly. Because I think with things like this, you are thinking about them all the time, all the time, all the time, all the time. And then you notice that you haven't been thinking about it. Yeah. The struggle with my body that has gone on, my heart. I was hoping. I was hoping.

Life. And by, it's literally my whole life considering what, the start started in puberty, but I hit my hip puberty when I was literally like eight or nine. So like the shit's been going on. That's 20 years. Yeah,

I've been reckoning. It's been. Lackybell's ring. Reckoning hard. Yeah. And I don't, and I expect it to ebb and flow again. Like I don't feel like I'm out of the woods of my body.

Yeah, especially with just how much my body is probably going to start changing. in the last in the next like um like for the rest of my life really in terms of like aging you know it's like um it's a scary thought it's from now on from one well from here on on out it's a downward slope don't do that it is it is no it is it is it's like the decay has started and it's fine like it actually is and i think i need to just make i kind of feel like i have made a lot of peace with like where i'm at with my body but i expect it to change with just

like aging will be a thing that will visible aging will be a thing. Sure. But I feel like I don't think about my body really that much anymore. I used to be a thing where like I would be turning the mirrors around in my room. I used to like before a night out or before anything, before literally anything, be screaming at people. Just say that I look bad. Just say, basically just say that I'm fat.

Just say that I'm fat. I know you're lying to me. I'd be going mental. I'd be turning everyone against me. like if you go psycho at people you're lying to me crying mental just getting people to insult me just so triggered by everything for the last like I don't know for the last like year and a bit maybe I don't I haven't been thinking about my body I really really haven't like in quite a shocking way and I don't think it's that my body hasn't changed I haven't weighed myself since I was literally

16 but like I don't know what is actually happening with my body I don't um think about why I eat I don't think about my exercise I don't think about my clothes in the same way I don't check my body in like mirrors which I used to all the time and like photos I truly truly truly feel neutral like I think I've achieved body neutrality body neutrality I think I have achieved it but only in its absence which so like you would I haven't even noticed. Yeah. It happened.

It's almost just that thing of being like, oh my God, I literally, like that huge, huge part that used to dictate so much about how I felt about myself is not here anymore. And I didn't even notice it. So like, which that feels nuts, to be honest. Thank you. Let the bells ring, actually. Let them ring. Just for a moment.

Let them ring. Let them fucking ring. Things shall change. It will come back for me, I'm sure, because I'm a woman on planet earth and fucking hell. They've made it hard out here. They've made it hard. Extremely. Right for right now.

28 year old me about to be 29 year old me yeah has fixed something and that took a lot of therapy a lot of dedication um like so much actually and so much energy and everything and like active vicing against it but I actually think I'm kind of there

I was going to say what would you say is like the main thing that you think might have informed that change if you had to really kind of water it down and simplify it as a soundbite. Would it like this beautiful, amazing thing? Give me a one liner? But like, genuinely, would there be one main thing that you think that probably put a lot in?

I think, so I've had so much therapy. Like, I've had like four different therapists that have pretty much been about body, like three NHS ones, one that I paid for when I was like, I don't know, 19 or something. But so they all probably fed in in this huge. way but I actually think the like end lesson because all of that stuff has been like built foundations of like my awareness of like this stuff doesn't matter like it doesn't matter and awareness of it as like a mental illness and all of the stuff oh just like it's a dysmorphia like all of this stuff but like I think actually the thing that's changed is being like having fun

and like actually like living like a life where that stuff doesn't there isn't like room for it to creep in sort of thing i think it's it's been a bit of like just prioritizing other stuff and like prioritizing just like living rather than being like i i feel like shit i feel like shit so then it's all going to come out in my way of like controlling my body and it's like actually that stuff was never really the problem it was actually that you just felt like shit in this other way i i don't know i think it's all just built on top of each other but like i think i'm yeah i think the final lesson was actually just like go and live a life because you hate to break you, you'd be dead soon enough. So like just go and live a fucking life. It doesn't really matter

what the shape of your body is because it like actually really, really doesn't. Yeah. Like in a deep way. Yeah. Yeah. No, totally. And I think that's finally like I'm actually like embodying that and like living with that not just like knowing it. Like knowing it to be true. Living it. And then actually living it feel they're different. because you can know it to be true till the fucking cows come home doesn't change anything yeah doesn't change anything it's not the same

you need to like actually it needs to be like a physical experience and like actually an identity like you need to like build enough that it's like okay so I'm actually identifying with this as like who I am is someone that like doesn't even subconsciously

I don't think about my body and then it needs to be true before you actually believe it sort of thing I think it till you make it something I say Yeah, and I was faking so hard. I believe in that, though. Oh my God, it's the only way. Yeah.

Live. Yeah. And also just kind of pile so much other stuff onto yourself that that that is like Princess and the P. There's no room anymore for this little thing. Yeah. Get rid. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Do you have one? What a lovely answer. Thank you. I would love to hear the same for you. Let's let the bells ring once more. Let the bells ring.

I'm sucking my knee there. I don't know. I think I've, definitely been on a on a wavelength yeah or like the past few months even i think even from the first of january i have been so much more human to myself yeah yeah in the sense i have really um i guess there is there is some level of acceptance and almost like validating this sounds really weird but validating who I am as a human being like on the planet with other human beings.

Yeah. Like I almost, there's a lot of ego in thinking like, I'm the odd one out like I am so not right and everyone else is fine or whatever. Like there's a lot of like, you know, it's very assumption as to think that there's something wrong with you in a way because it's almost like, well, there's something wrong with pretty much everyone. And like you're not unique for thinking that, you know, you're off in some way.

Yeah. am off in many ways. Yeah. But I just feel like I really I'm able to see myself as like a human, this sounds like, again, really obvious. It's literally the opposite.

But it's, I just don't apologise for my existence in the same way. I remember saying years ago that I would have like, I don't even know how I said it, but it's kind of like I would have a nightmare about like being, like getting my hair cut or something

and looking in the mirror and be like, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, I'm here sort of thing. and I still apologise for absolutely everything but in a deeper sense like I'm not apologising for my existence in the same way I still feel it like I'm not there

I'm not at the end of anything like in terms of really it's still like a daily thing but I just see myself as someone and that is like deserving of experience in life if that makes sense Yeah. That's very abstract.

No, I don't think it is at all. Because also that's been a visible change. And I feel like we've said this before. Yeah. Like the difference is you can feel like shit and beat yourself up or feel like shit and be nice to yourself. And I feel like you're definitely there. You're definitely in that space of like there's a difference with how you, you might feel worse than you did before. But you're actually still.

Yeah. Literally worse than ever. Unprecedented levels of work. All time low. But you are being kind to yourself whilst you feel shit. Yeah. Yeah.

That is different. And it's really hard. Yeah. You're like, that's not natural in the sense of like, you learn how to be for kind of 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. Like our whole lives we spend like kind of

um. Training. Constantly, truly training. Yeah. To do all of these things that make us feel worse. whatever. And I really feel like this year I've just sort of been like... Yeah. Do you know what it is? It's just like, isn't it hard enough? Isn't it hard enough? Without that? Like, it's almost like the most counterintuitive thing. And like you can see it for anyone

else so easily. Like, it's the thing. It's just like, it's that classic thing. It's so fucking cliche, but it's that thing of like, speak to yourself like you'd speak to a friend. And a bit is actually kind of true. It's completely true. It's like actually if you think about it. It's like actually if you think about the shit that we say to ourselves, it's like, if you said that to a friend, it's actually insane, no one would be friends with you. No one would be mental. And like, what's wrong with you? You don't do that.

It's really, yeah, it's insane. And also, like, being able to see, like, how much love you easily give to the people that you care about. Even when they act, like, twas as well, that's kind of the thing. It's like, the people I'm able to love who are so fucked, to be honest, like to do so. such fucked shit. Like genuinely like abusive fucking free people. But yeah, I'm like perfect human. Like I love love love love.

Yeah. Meanwhile or meanwhile I literally could do something like not have perfectly straight hair and I'll be like evil human. Yeah. Yeah. Well it's kind of that thing of like we really live. It's like I am one

you know thing of falling. I'm one mistake away from everything being totally worthless. Like, honestly, like I am truly like, yeah, I'm on a tightrope of, I am always one misstep or one stupid thing I said or, yeah, one hair out of place. Away from a breakdown. Away from a breakdown. And being completely like, well, you're just a piece of shit, da-da-da.

So it's about like, yeah, self-worth, self-acceptance and all of that fucking volu. Do you know what? I think that whole thing of like the negative self-talk and just like the normal. normalization of how brutal we are to ourselves and like the inner monologue being evil like actually evil and like um quite psychotic and bizarre yeah just the sort of things you would never dream of saying out loud the point journaling is good because you actually see it and you're like christ okay there's like there's like an evil villain living in my head yeah literally like this is crazy I'm just sabotaging myself constantly but I am quite into neural pathways at the moment. Yes, same. Of Love Love, love, the neural pathway vibe. Yeah.

And it's on the Dr. Tara Swart train. It's on the... Do you know M on the brain? You familiar with her? She did a J. Shetty episode, but I was familiar with her before. I'm in a J. Shetty kind of vibe at the moment. That's nice. Well, is it?

It's horrible, but it can only serve you well. There's too much to say about him. like I'm so confused. Like I come away from it thinking I'm so confused, but has great guests. And she's really, she's really great, like kind of neuroscientist that is kind of girl bossified neuroscience. I mean, when is it not? When is it not?

Literally. There has to be like girl boss in there somewhere. I think she was. It's a very CBT sort of vibe. So CBT. But she was saying this and I think I've been like trying to do this of like every time you catch a negative thought. like just almost it makes you aware of how subconscious they are as well and just like how

strange they are like and just like the the level of brutality coming from a small thing like I could spill a bit of my water and be like idiot in my head and it's like okay like really like it's sort of like for a second it's like oh hey it's a bit much yeah but she was like every time you catch one of those you have to say five positive things about yourself and like it's quite tricky because you can be like, oh, idiot. And then you have to be like, clever girl that is beautiful and funny and blah blah, blah. And like, it obviously feels mental.

But I do think it does something to like undo. I've been doing it a bit. And like it's actually quite crazy. Like how easily the idiot comes, how easy like the negative thing and how tricky and how mental and like laughable it is to be like, clever, clever and funny and pretty. Nice.

Especially in England. It laughed out of town. It meant to, you couldn't say out loud. Don't say out loud. That's a bit much. But even in your own head. Right.

I think, but I actually don't think say out loud stuff with like, I think it has a, it like totally don't be mean about yourself and all of the stuff. But I think people jump to the like, um, like saying it out loud before they believe it and actually you just, I don't think the culture is quite ready for it.

Yeah. Like in general. you're not going to make yourself any friends necessarily when you don't believe it and you're using a social realm to prop yourself, prop yourself esteem up. Right. I think it's slightly risky. With other people around. Yeah, sit in a mirror.

Perfect. There was just, there was someone that I met recently. And I thought, God, you've been on the, the internet too long and you've forgotten how to socialise, because, which we all have. But she, it was, like, in a group with, like, there were, like, some older women there. And, like, there were some men there. And this one girl was like, she said something and she was like, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because I'm conventionally attractive, there's blah blah blah.

And just like said this thing. And I literally felt the energy just like out of the room. Just like, like these people are not on the incident. They don't know what you're saying. They're not having that. I know that you're, you kind of think you're doing something there. Or like it's kind of like, yes, I should be able to compliment myself in public. And you totally should.

But it just. it's not quite we're not quite there as a society i don't think are you ready for the conversations around no like if it's something you're working on just keep yourself safe out there totally it's mental because if you're coming from a place of insecurity which speak for myself i am and and pretty much most people are you're opening yourself up for it's hazardous out there like completely it is yeah it's tough but you should of course be able to say oh i think i'm clever i think I'm convention. I'm trying to do whatever the fuck.

But I think... You actually need to do that. You do, but I think people... The conversation is about never insult yourself in public and only say good things about yourself. And I just think, look, maybe work on the innards before you go for the outers. Don't think it comes up. It's not a great... I've just been in too many of the situations where someone is saying, like, I'm so pretty and I'm so stunning.

And it's a bit like, oh, I don't really know what to do with this. Yeah, you're... You're bringing people in on your journey. It's risky. Which is good. But maybe let's just take you to the journal and then maybe you won't feel such a need to do that bit. I think it's really risky because I think there are things like, for example, if it's about your appearance, which like everyone here probably struggles with their appearance in some capacity. If I'm trying something out about like, oh, I fucking hate my whatever, my hair.

And I come in and I'm like, guys, like, I just have this thing where like my hair always looks good. like to do that. It couldn't be more transparent. You see one fucking look on someone's face. You're not, now you hate your hair more than ever. Like, I almost think be careful in the sense

that you're opening yourself up for, to feel worse, basically. I think just protect that. Your insecurities are so, my God, they're fragile as far. They're so tender. And even a look or a glance

or a word choice from someone else can send you like, that's an extra five years on your, on your therapy. time. Like, that's an extra. If you think about like how long it is that we've been hammering these beliefs home, literally since you were probably like, yeah, six or whatever.

Yeah. It's going to take longer than three months to undo them. Totally. And create the new path of desire. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things. It's like the advice being don't, I don't know.

I just think it's a sign of jumping to the final step of like how we talk about ourselves publicly. It's a long road ahead before we're getting to that point and I don't think we should necessarily be saying negative things about but definitely not like it's not it's not a good vibe it's not good for yourself in any way and that also can make things awkward no it's awful it's so awful and also that's the natural way as well

to be like oh you look nice no I don't look fucking horrible blah blah blah like that's the classic fucking thing which is not right and we shouldn't be doing that but I also think like let's yeah don't let's not bring it into the social realm in the beginning stages. I think it's because you can end up overcompensating and then just making yourself feel so much worse and also just making everyone be like, what the hell is going on?

Like, why is that girl walked into the room and called herself stunning 10 times? I don't know what's going on. I also think that awareness is like so much of that first kind of like building block because it's so much of it has become so kind of inherent in who we are that it's so subconscious and I had a thing literally this the other day where I put on a skirt and I was like oh my skirt's got a hole in it or whatever and they were like well just don't mention it to anyone yeah because you can't you won't notice it yeah and I was like I wouldn't I would never mention it well you were and they said yes they would someone is going to say you look really nice and the first

thing you're going to say is oh my god it's the way I'm see I didn't even I literally I literally thought, why would I ever bring that up? Like, what the fuck? Did I don't know? I thought, shit, you've completely read me inside out. That is so true. It's the first thing I'm going to say. Totally.

I look and mess. My hair's greasy. I mess. I'm at the whole of my skirt. Genuinely. Yeah. Predictable. Yeah.

But also, of course. Of course. I'm like, get some new tricks. She's going to put herself down. Drinking game. How long will it take before she said something horrible about herself? God. Bloody hell.

All right. Okay. All right. Should we wrap that then? Yeah, let's go. Wrap it up in a bow for Bodmast. Happy Podmus. Happy Podmus, everybody.

And a ho, ho, ho. And a Merry Podmast. We don't have an outro. I don't think it's... It doesn't warrant an outro, does it? It's actually not appropriate for that to be an outro this year. Really? No, they could...

We do what we want. I mean, we set the tone. Totally. Well, do you want to do an outro? You do? Have to burst into song. Yeah, I thought you were about to. Um, no.

Have yourself a merry little podmus. Yeah, so true. Have yourself a merry little podmas. Let the bells ring. Let the bells ring. Let the bells ring out. Yeah. And we'll see you.

Next Monday. Next Monday. Yeah. Yeah. The day that is we don't have Advent calendars. So how are we to know? I might get one, to be honest. It feels fucking ridiculous to not have one.

We can't have not have Podmas and no Advent calendars. All right. Yeah. It's like, are we even trying? It's like, yeah it's kind of like do we deserve to enjoy Christmas yes so okay Scrooge genuinely okay fine yeah alright well there you go there you have it folks see you next time if you don't hear from us assume the worst assume the worst I like the little nod you did then you did like an eyebrow thing

soon the worst you know it then you did like an eyebrow thing