Goes Without Saying - how to start a podcast: the myth of Cringe

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on the myth of cringe, self-belief, friendship and collaboration, failure, social media, dreams, desire, and our villain origin story. assume the worst... ✷shop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.ukhear more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwingwatch more ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. And this has actually been such a nice episode i feel even a bit emotional after this we've done a lot of reflecting it's quite self-indulgent but i think it's a really nice one to oh i dare i say it's inspiring i don't know i don't know if i'd go that far but i think

it's a nice one just to encourage a bit of self-belief a bit of um kind of like you're not doomed you're worth good things good things will come we're with you enjoy how's it going it's good it's good nothing new although i do feel sick i know i've brought on an illness. You have brought on an illness. Not Manchester. Cambridge talk is tomorrow. And we were just talking about it.

And now I feel so excited that I think it's almost like a sickness excitement. Slight nerves and also excitement. It's a bit... I don't know where she came from, Cambridge. She just snuck up on us. What the hell? We finally got our looks sorted. I think that's the thing that we were really arming our arm about what to wear. excitement it's a bit um i don't know where she came from cambridge she just snuck up on us we finally got our looks also i think that's the thing that we were really oh i'm thinking about what to wear i still don't feel like no i'm not because i haven't tried it on properly

yeah do you know what i mean you know i don't have the sense of completion i can stop giving a shit now yeah yeah exactly i've been waiting for a pop the cherry hasn't popped yet but i think i've got i'm between a dress basically i love but i wore it christmas eve new year's eve the day that jamie lyne kissed us on the cheeks i've worn it a lot to every event that's happened recently i've worn this dress yeah and i do love it so much um but it's like do i want to wear it for the fourth thing that i do i'm wearing this dress constantly but you know what i might sustainable queen i might wear it yeah sustainable queen yeah um yeah i might wear it but i also have one that i might wear as well by the time this comes out it's old news old news it's already dull news i would say yeah i mean it's hardly um riveting

but it is for me i agree with you i've definitely got a bit of a buzz like i feel like my heart is kind of on vibrate yeah yeah genuinely um but i feel good i feel proud of us i feel excited i feel happy um yeah that's about it yeah okay just coming in for a chilled like catch-up today i think yeah are we gonna that's what i wouldn't mind anyway the record i i believe yeah so we asked you on our instagram we're gonna say again sephie and wing um thank you to everyone following us on the instagram you are our favorite people our favorite child yeah just thank you so much everyone and if you don't follow us please please please go and follow us on instagram i'm sure you already do but you know if you don't we asked you on there

like ask us anything and you guys have come through with stuff should we just go on yeah okay are you all right yeah i'm reading them oh okay you thought i was just staring into the voice no i was just checking that everyone's good my phone was just out of the facetime shot i'm sure i look mental take it away what's a song movie or book that never gets old i know i would say it's really classic for us but i think the harry potters i mean i've been watching those since i was what six maybe younger and they are still very much alive you just said and i still watch

these things yeah i limit myself to probably me and my sister came up with like a vague rule that was like you're rationing each one of them twice a year maybe before they get old and i do try to resist it like if i know that i'm not gonna watch the whole one properly i'm like this this isn't one of the times i watch it you have to savor it because it's like look i know these things inside out but it's like goblet of fire if you've watched that four times a year you know the third challenge is slightly boring oh it's the worst challenge the third challenge the maze i find the maze a bit it just doesn't live up to the second challenge the water that's my fave i find the maze really scary i find the maze a little bit like look your first one was dragons

your second one was like mermaids and then your third is a maze we actually when we were watching salt burn we're like she's definitely referencing is that the thing she was i think she with the shots of harry potter and then the way that maze was shot yes it did seem like um someone's gonna sell the flare any second oh um i don't know stuff that never gets old i really actually struggle like this is probably my most libra thing not a thing but like i just actually can't commit to anything enough to like stand by an opinion like i'm so vapid and empty as a person that i just can't back i would never say like i just can't i can't be like yeah that lives up and then someone god forbid someone disagreed or like oh i just can't i can't do you know what i mean to

form an opinion i just sometimes i'm not strong enough i mean i think you are i think you on a different day would say that taylor swift never gets old for you taylor swift doesn't ever get old but that's not one song okay then pick your favorite one that one my tears ricochet i can't i couldn't possibly pick one it's fair enough but my tears ricochet is up there obviously but again that's on rations honestly that's on rations as you know because i've actually this is a proposal i don't know how you feel about this but i've been thinking recently in my life when i go through my life and i listen to taylor swift yeah i've been thinking about you big compliment that's funny

because i think about you when i listen to her do you whenever she comes on sort of in a shop out and about obviously you come to mind straight away i have been thinking and i'm kind of in the in a loose process i'm thinking about basically starting to curate kind of perfect tales of playlists for you that we will then go through for different moods and different vibes so that we can get you in yeah in preparation for our era's date yes which i'm so excited for yeah me too um i think and like i think we should capture that kind of like the indoctrination of sephie yeah into the we captured a little bit of it with the way i was crying i was on my period but honestly i was thinking about that the other day when we saw the eras tour film i was sobbing you were in bits actually i don't know but it was the weirdest songs it

would be like literally um a song she never heard before yeah it was things it was like blank space and i would be but it was just the sheer power i think i was overwhelmed at just like her presence almost yeah yeah and also i just felt like kind of what she was doing for women and the idea of like women quite like shamelessly liking something that has been deemed kind of embarrassing to like yeah for years yeah i was just quite like moved by it it is moving and i just loved how she looked in that film every day she looks so oh my god the sweaty hair i was like you look absolutely divine divine i loved it so i'm thinking like i was almost so some of my loose i haven't written any of this down this has just been in my head i was thinking the other day like a playlist and it will be like i'm going to create different playlists for us to go through together yeah i

was thinking one of them is like running through district 12 with peter malark sort of vibe and and those are the songs didn't she do a song for hunger games yeah yeah i listened to that once on a train you told me to do that yes stunning um and just generally like just you know so that's what you need to be prepared for that i need you to not do that no i will i will there's a video that keeps coming up on my um youtube like home page of it's like the video of josh josh hutchinson playing with puppies oh yeah and i i was actually going to send that to you the other day i literally put not interested because i was like i cannot do not show me do not show me less of this channel i i cannot see it no no god damn have you watched the full video or no i won't really i don't know i actually can't i can't i cannot because i really want to see five nights at

freddy's but i'll watch that with you oh well i will obviously watch it but i really I really want to see Five Nights at Freddy's. Oh, I'll watch that with you. Oh, well, I will obviously watch it. But I really don't want to. I just don't want to fall in love with him. He's a Libra, I heard. Really? Yeah. He gives me that, actually.

Okay. Yeah, I can see that for him. I'll take that as a compliment. Yeah. I just think, and there was that video of, you know, that guy that goes up to sing 70s when he did the really funny one with if you see us at cambridge i hope someone says that says what can i sing a song for you oh my god so much that would be literally amazing and the guy goes gets up to josh hutchinson in the street and goes and sings the whistle song oh my god it's just so good it's so good so you're still loving him then

you're still in deep no because i'm trying to avoid it okay right i just think ever since re like reading hunger games and just the hype around the new one and everything and just i was in i've been in deep on hunger get on peter malark before in my life that is not a new she survived him once can she survive him again i've survived him so many times but like i can't like i can't go back into this i get it i'm trying to avoid and it's like when you send me videos of jacob alordi i'm like i can't even talk about that right now stop like i can't no i can't even talk about it like it will ruin my life. I refuse, yeah.

Yeah. I'm putting my foot down on that one. Well, the thing is, you send them all the time to me. I know. No, I don't. You sent me that. No, you sent me. That crazy video.

A violently stunning one. I only ever send something if it's really a showstopper. It was. It was insane. It was. It was, actually. It was insane. It's too much. I can't really get into him right now it's too that's too real i'm on the i'm not interested i need to do that i need to push it away same so on that let's change the subject yeah yeah moving on moving on moving on

a lot of questions about the pod yeah there, there are loads, actually. Is that anything you want to talk about in there? Or not really? There's loads I want to talk about. Someone said, when did you first discuss the possibility of creating a pod together? We must have told this a million times by now. Sometimes I think, though, you know when you tell a story, or like the memory of something becomes the story that you tell rather than the actual memory that it was yeah and i wonder if there is more there that like we haven't thought about or

spoken about in a while do you know what i mean go on then well i'll set the scene and you jump in oh we just got a message from our manager freya saying hey guys hope you have a lovely weekend had a lovely weekend cambridge something cambridge some cambridge info incoming oh my goodness the nerves are kicking in that's a bit scary what's the info you're cancelled nobody has signed up oh god i'm gonna be sick it definitely feels the most dramatic thing that we've done cambridge yeah i think it's the title cambridge uni really for me it's the um it's the awareness of like i don't think to the same degree we've ever told people to meet us somewhere in this way probably a good thing do you know what i mean like people have we've met people and it's kind of been like very low-key and it's like oh you you saw this

random thing and you so fucking nicely came and like you really went above and beyond to like show up for us but we've mentioned cambridge a few times in a lot of episodes now yeah it feels quite oh god yeah no i'm quite terrified oh my god what is it we're at over dynas which is brills they've been looking for a slightly larger venue an original plan to turn anyone away i'm sorry they're looking for a larger venue oh my god we've broken the internet we've broken cambridge uni you should be on the news oh my goodness oh jesus well no one can be turned away that's not happening oh my goodness no i'll do i'll do it on the street i'll stand out with a megaphone are you opening this because i haven't no i haven't okay should we just carry on let's continue the episode then

we'll deal with that all right um oh my god though thank you guys for everyone signing up thank you guys we love you god i feel sick i feel sick now i feel sick oh my god no that's actually okay um what were we saying yeah so how did this all start basically okay let me sorry i just need to shake it off let's clear that a little bit yeah clear the energy jumping jacks i might have a drink before tomorrow by the way yeah that sounds good i'm gonna limit my coffee intake to to to one wow because i think i'm gonna have one yeah i can't have too many or i'm gonna be sick i hear you um yeah i'll have a drink before why not honestly i'll have like any kind of sedative yeah that's what that's what i was thinking do i go for something stronger god i feel so sick okay all right so how did this all begin

we um we sat down at a table we were very into so should we talk about our relationship together as well well i always find this quite interesting me too when i think about this because but don't be hyperbolic i think okay go on well i think we were okay so don't be hyperbolic do you know what i mean don't be dramatic here it's in my nature it's in my blood i i think i i think like we started we just decided to do this very early on like in the grand scheme of our friendship yeah it didn't take much to get us like it was literally a few months and we were like yeah let's do something which is crazy it is crazy but also like it wasn't we had developed i think a

really strong there was a foundation there of something big time there was like there was a strong connection there we weren't i mean it was like in the scheme of friendship so i had known who you were for since first couple of years yeah yeah but we'd never really been friends we were kind of like you were very much like a mutual friend yeah yeah our friends were friends yeah um and we went through the whole of first year and the whole of second year really just with that kind of relationship kind of scraping by yeah just like pumping into each other and i remember the first time i ever met wing the first thing i thought was i whispered to my friend that girl looks like selena gomez that was

the first thing i ever compliment said about wing she looks like selena gomez that girl so much so that i was like whispering it like don't you think i'm like that over there it looks like selena gomez um and then the second thing i ever said about her i remember walking home from your your flat and i was like i like that erin girl she's a really good storyteller thank you because you told this story and like you really set the scene i was like and i did one of the things i value most in people i was like she's a really good storyteller it's a really nice thing to say about someone it's actually a really big compliment i also feel like i don't ever come away from like meeting somebody with you and you say something like they were a really good storyteller like it's quite an

extreme no compliment no it is like i think that was my and now looking back on that my first impression of you it's so funny that we kind of talk together and we have done for years and that's like the whole thing is this like conversational thing it's just so weird to know that then a whole year passed where we just kind of were mutual friends again and then when we started living together yeah um because there was a group of five there were me and my two friends and wing and her the friend our friends were friends we just thought yeah we live together that'd be perfect um and we started talking and we just ended up the rest is my one of my i remember thinking i remember thinking like soon after we met i remember thinking like

you were giving something quite honest i still think this about you now that i feel like you're we talk actually a lot we were just saying about like oh it's performance like the performance of life and blah blah i feel like especially at uni when you first meet people as well you're meeting a performance you're meeting like a performed thing or like everyone everyone just doesn't know who they are yeah it's a very strange it's a weird time and i just remember thinking immediately with you that you were really giving like an honest representation of yourself cut to the more i got to know you and in our conversations and i remember saying this on the pod i would be like i could have a conversation with someone up to a certain point and that would

be great but you could just give like an extra depth or like you could say something a bit darker or like weird or like yeah kind of um you had no shame like you would just you would say it and then explain yourself or like back yourself up or you wouldn't like shy away from like a deeper conversation which i really like like you were quite unapologetic and i think it still i say all the time that you are really like a confident unapologetic person i love that so much it's true it's so true um because we we actually did we used to sit in the living room and talk yeah for hours which i guess most people do but like we would have yeah because we would come to the living room with topics though

yeah we were kind of doing podcasts it literally was i remember being in the living room and like not just me and you but just with all of us like almost like you go down into the kitchen it's like oh the living room today is talking about private schools so we're having like a everyone's having a big conversation it's like i'm sharing my views and it was um it was like often like political conversation conversations but then i think there must be an extra thing because there are so many like we were having conversations with all kinds of people i think there was something specific about we wanted to do something extra with it like so true there was a i was i was actually journaling this morning and which

was long overdue i actually was speaking to wing about it earlier it was just like i feel like i finally did my new year's reset like a really nice 2024 now like that was lovely i feel like it cleared out a lot and that was like yeah that was what i've been looking for the mental equivalent of tidying my room shed the scrub down to be honest i really did scrub down scrape down the decks the insides of my brain um and i was i was actually writing about um kind of us beginning it and stuff and i was really thinking like to have the same vision of like we both wanted like we grew up watching these youtubers and like bloggers and bloggers and all these fucking people we knew them we wanted it but like in

that way that you kind of want it and you kind of think oh it's just a dream like sort of thing I could never really do it and it's so funny to me now I was writing like everything that I wanted growing up not everything but the thing that I wanted yeah I'll have it and I think that was the thing the commitment that both of us kind of I think we saw something special in our conversations and also we wanted the same thing which that kind of overlap yeah i think is quite hard thing to find like even we could have kind of vaguely wanted it enough to like do it for a year and then kind of give up or like oh but then also my job takes priority or whatever but it's

like we both wanted it to the same like amount where we were willing to put it above pretty much everything anything i think because as well like it's a vision that's aligned but that vision is like really like that desire and the vision and the things that we wanted it's all really rooted i think in like what we feel on like a deep level of our purpose like it comes back to like this is what i'm here on this planet to do yeah which is to sound pathetic then when it's like i'm here to get signed by gleam that's my purpose that just comes alongside with it though that's alongside we felt and i obviously we still do like the the um we just feel extremely passionately yeah about and also the way it looks and the content of it i think we had a huge overlap

with that and we've grown so much with it like how we first envisioned it is not how it looks now and we've changed so much but i think the actual message of everything we do yeah has like we've never really had a conflict ever on the type of thing we want to make we've never had a thing where it's like i want to say this no no but i don't want to say that or i want to say this and it's never we've always been completely aligned with what it is and also i think we've been quite fluid and open with each other yeah i think as well though in its foundation it's about us i mean there are so many like when i almost say that like it's the purpose like the crux of it all

there are obviously like multiple things that overlap and like it it isn't just like one thing like i couldn't give a sentence a short sentence right here and right now off the top of my head i couldn't possibly there are multiple things coming into it but i think one of the like pillars of us doing this is are you okay i'm just laughing that they've had to find a bigger venue i'm sorry it's meant i agree with you i agree with you i've had a belly flip about it sorry i'm my stomach I'm in the washing machine like I'm spinning around it's yeah okay I need to prepare myself because I don't want to get this thing where I got I get it all the time ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever.

I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com where i start laughing in the middle of the thing that we're doing and how because almost i get the

zoom out yeah well whatever you do don't yawn i might i might well try not to it's not a thing i can control it's not like oh i'm tired it's just like is it an anxious yawn it could be could be who knows could be open for interpretation you expect me to know what my body's doing i don't know um i think one of the like core pillars and like why we would never have a conflict about it and i think in the way that you were saying like it's grown and changed so much over time the idea that we started it almost like we've got so much more um brave with it or much more just like brazen in the way that we do it like it's become more and more and more about us and i think selfishly that in turn actually becomes like a selfless move because the more that we show ourselves in like um honest but

also like forgiving form i think it kind of does the leading by example thing of like we're just here to show you that we're a piece of shit and it's okay if you're a piece of shit too sort of thing and we would never have a conflict about something that the other person wants to say because we've realized that over time well first of all we just wouldn't but i think we've realized over time that anything we have the desire to say or like anything we want for this space is what it is because yeah it can only be what we want yeah it will change like i think we it was the weird thing that in the very beginning stages i think we knew that we wanted this to be like a long-term

partnership like even though and then i think if knew that we wanted this to be like a long-term partnership like even though and then i think if you want that you have to be willing to like grow and evolve and change and like be open to the change when it comes and not resist it and only be okay with it in its certain form that you agreed with in the beginning way like we have i think we just know that we want this to last and last and last and there's something really amazing about that so i think i don't know i think being trying to shut someone down on their what they want to say it's like you have to just be open to it basically of being it being like a 50 50 but also 100 of you both exactly yeah it's entirely me and entirely you but also exactly half and half it's our baby it's a weird yeah exactly it's literally a baby which is really wanky i know i know but that's what i think as

well it's like that is the truth but i think when I was saying at the beginning, don't be dramatic. It's not like we just met and jumped into bed and made a baby first night in. Oh, hell no. It was like there was something established. We courted. We did court. We did. Heavy. Heavy.

Heavy. Extreme courting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's any practical advice or anything, but that is our story anyway. Yeah, that's our story. That's our story's our story that was lovely yeah that was really nice yeah what was the hardest part about starting the podcast in the beginning and what was the best thing about

starting the podcast in the beginning hardest and best yeah i think the hardest is the embarrassment i don't even necessarily think we were particularly embarrassed, but because we were, as we've said before, bombed by there being two of us, and it's not just you on your own going on some venture on your own. Which would be fucking embarrassing. Yeah, but it is embarrassing. Life is embarrassing.

It is. It's embarrassing to sit around doing nothing and wanting things too. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's embarrassing to sit around doing nothing and wanting things too yeah exactly and i think it's just about choosing are you going to pick the embarrassment of doing something and be seen to be trying or the to be honest the pain of not doing it never giving it a go and also just the potential of failure it's like i think we just need to get way more comfortable with that as a society not a revolutionary thought but i do think it's important for everyone to be okay with the idea of like trying and failing is far better than not trying and then agree failing from that um i yeah i actually disagree with you that the hardest thing in the beginning

more than the embarrassment i think was like oh i don't know what the word is but i guess it's just like a kind of um there's a sadness to trying and like oh do you know what i mean that sadness there's a there's a it's not instant because it's not instant and it's and it's a long hard slog to the end and i remember feeling i say this like to you now quite often actually i feel like it comes up like i'll say to you i remember doing things like we would have conversations or we would do something and it's like we're making stuff that no one's ever gonna see and that is really sad yeah like and i think that is one of the things now that is definitely one of the best things about it now is that there's such a luxury like i don't think we would ever ever ever take for granted the fact that when you decide to do something you have someone there ready and waiting to like listen or respond or like enjoy

what you've done through every single time we look at them we're like whoa like wow people actually responded people are here yeah and i think that is something really there is a sadness there's a sadness because it's kind of um lonely or like isolating which is why i think it's so like such a luxury to do it together that there's two of us because we could always turn and be like this is insane to the other person but i think doing something on your own or just doing something in life where you're like trying and then it doesn't work you try again next week and then it doesn't work you try again next week for like 100 weeks straight that is that is a challenge and it is like an emotional challenge

and i think even like getting rejected from jobs or stuff like that like it there is a sadness to that and there is a sense of rejection when you're trying and like it's not immediately received well by thousands of people and it feels hopeless it feels like why am i even trying there's no point there's no way it's gonna ever work like of course i'm destined for shit like that is that i think that's the bit that makes it painful because it's like you know that nothing's instant you know that logically that it's not gonna be i start a podcast and there's and the next day beyonce shouts it out and everybody i know that's not how it works but i think that if we knew as those two little girls around the table yeah how slow it actually is i don't know if we ever would have done it like i like i think we would but i think i always felt

um on the brink just the delusion of it basically i always felt kind of bigger than we were delusion of it basically i always felt kind of bigger than we were i always felt on the cusp like i always felt like it's tomorrow it's happening to my mum like yeah one more sleep yeah just there've been so many points yeah one more yeah honestly there were so many points at the beginning kind of in the like sort of beginning to middle stages of where we are now tonight tonight is the final point um which is not but like almost midway through the journey up to this point a lot of people question me on it and i kind of i actually i completely get where they were coming from i completely get it of like is this right for you um you have finished uni and you're deciding to what not do anything with that you're deciding to not do the familiar path like we don't understand

this for you and i remember having the conversation with my mum um where i was like i feel like we're just on the brink we're just on the brink like i just need to be able to do it and she completely backed me on that at that point um but it was so funny because we were nowhere near the brink of anything like we were years away from even seeing a penny from it really yeah there's no one brink as well for us anyway there's millions of brinks there's always a brink also the brink of what like i don't feel like i'm at do you know what i mean like it's just like what the fuck is that but i think i almost meant on the brink of like yeah no no being a valid thing yeah um which now i do feel like it's a valid thing agreed um which it always was but it was just almost in society's lens but we were years and years away we were probably over a year

away from that from ever making any money from it or anything i i do think though like if we went back to that table and was like oh um it's going to take years and years like this is what it looks like and kind of mapped out our journey for those two little girls yeah we definitely would have done it and i think the confirmation of knowing that it was there at the end. Yeah. Like something, something was at the end of the journey. It's like,

Oh, well I don't care how long the journey is. Then I'll do it. It's kind of like, I'll go on a long flight. I'll do, I'll commit. Yeah. And that is the fun.

Like the fun bit is making it and doing it and all the stuff, the stuff that continues to happen. The fun bit is not like you work so hard, then you get this payoff at the end. Like that's not how it works. It not like you work so hard then you get this payoff at the end like that's not how it works it's like you create something then you just continue to do it that's kind of that's the goal that's the dream best thing about it at the beginning best thing about it yeah at the beginning they said i think it's mine comes down to you like i think doing this with you having a real project that you're working like intensely on with a friend and like really matching the energy language with you

that we like use internally and here like building that really building from scraps like from the barest of bones from like the tiny bit of an idea and like working on this thing i mean there's nothing like that really there i've never known anything like that i've never known anything like this i don't know it's actually baffling actually yeah it's weird actually because now when i think about my life i can't i can't take this out of it yeah it's so intrinsic it's so everything yeah yeah in the best it's actually such such a cool thing they're having to find a bigger that's crazy teffy stop stop i can't i can't believe that that's a bit mental actually if we this this is coming out after the cambridge talk um i hope it all went well and thank you so much if we did if we did meet you and if we made it if we made it through

yeah um and thank you to everyone who's just been here on the journey in general yeah it's really nice looking back like that i know that we don't do it often enough in our own lives like it's really because also you sent me a photo and you were discussing about maybe doing something much which i think is such a stunning idea it was all of our logos throughout the ages we've had like every single one of them and each one very much is an era totally is when i look at each of them i can you know when you see a photo of something and you can feel it it's like god i can smell it i can feel it like i'm there i'm in 2019 i'm in 2022 like i can actually feel the feeling um all of these logos give me such a specific feeling like i would love you to make i don't know basically

wear them on a hoodie or something i would wear every day um it's just insane it is insane it is insane it's so fucking cool yeah it's crazy actually i think like the biggest thing for me and i have said this before but kind of as well speaking about that sadness at the beginning we were purely working from the hopes of talking and someone listening like you're purely just you're talking in the hopes that someone's ears will fall on yeah totally literally literally one person totally that and just doing it for the idea that one day it might and just keep going and just keep going yeah and i find that's the bit that i almost find hard to like grasp mentally now that i'm like i know people's ears are on it that has happened yeah

and that is crazy actually when you think about that and because i don't i wouldn't know how to explain my how to explain to myself how that happened it just bit by bit like literally brick by brick which is such a dissatisfying answer but it's the only way no it actually is i think it does come down to like there's always like when people seem to ask for like basically i think people want like a formula or something i do think i've you've got the brain here i think it i think we've discussed the formula that i i maybe i i'm not a mathematician you may know go on but you're an expert in this field something like this yeah um consistency spark spark right plus consistency plus time

it's just the first thing spark it's like immediately like first thing spark spark just go to tesco you identified a spark for whatever it is i've identified the spark oh my god i want to um be a dancer there we go that's the spot beautiful consistency you practice every day you keep going blah blah you make all these videos of yourself dancing you audition for the stuff consistent consistent consistent do every like blah blah plus time time needs to pass a lot of time needs to pass um plus i would say maybe some talent would be good plus some talent that's always multiplied by talent equals the thing that you wanted someone wrote that down i do actually agree with that so what did you say spark so spark spark plus consistency consistency plus time plus time because you can't just be consistent

for a week no no you can't it's a time needs to pass years maybe times it by a bit of talent a bit of like you you've got something new to say or whatever your your dances are good whatever you're doing yeah and your dances are good definitely oh yeah but you've grown everyone dances perfect in their own but like you're not going to be your first video that you make isn't going to be great the consistency in time will grow you some talent so you're multiplying it by this talent that you've developed equals the thing that you want god it's weird hearing you talking these terms mathematician yeah okay i agree let's say it one more time for the back spark plus consistency plus time multiplied by talent equals the thing that you want so what if you're missing one of those

components are any of those components things that you could let go like what if you've got all of that but you don't have talent or you've got all of that but you don't have the spark with the spark you actually have to have the spark the spark is not negotiable right and what is the spark how would you define spark the idea the thing coming to have the spark. The spark is non-negotiable. You don't have the spark, you've got nothing. Right. And what is the spark? How would you define spark? The idea, the thing coming to you. The thing that's like, right, I'm committing to doing it. Okay.

I want to be a fashion designer. That's it. Okay. So it's kind of the vision. Have you ever had that thought? It's kind of the vision. Yeah, it's the vision. Okay.

Vision, aka spark, brackets, closed brackets. Higher fire. Yeah, the higher fire was our spark. We're in conversations. okay this is sparking yeah no i've when i feel the spark we added feel the spark consistency we started posting an episode every week we did we added three years of time the time we timed it by uh what was it again talent we grew as podcasters our first episode is a good dog shit we grew we actually learned how to do it we equaled the things that we wanted yeah fair enough i like that i do really like that i actually think i mean i think it's i can see the pride in your eyes yeah

you're really into that is that's why they gave me a maths gcse a b a maths gcse i should hope so good for you i've learned to retake i got a c did you really have to retake um because they were like you can get a b if you want to be and there was a whole thing about like you couldn't be a teacher you couldn't teach english oh yeah you had to get minimum b in england england yeah if you didn't get a b in english you were gonna be a teacher was that in the no but i just i didn't want to limit myself at that that age i mean i'll do it now how dare they tell you i can't be an english teacher but i just thought the voice of a generation i just thought it's probably the closest i'm ever gonna get in my life to being able to get a b yeah like now i could i had to learn that all from scott oh jesus i'd be not hoping how so i thought fuck it whilst i'm at

c territory right because right now i'm at like f you're on the brink i'm on the brink i'm at a c i can probably get a b right now if i just do it good for you so what what oh no it's not important that's the story of my math it's not important i won't ask you anymore genuinely hardest thing i've ever done in my life my math is and learning to drive really i think that is the opposite of my brain okay what do you think did you find your driving easy um it just wouldn't have come to mind as a i remember i really nailed my test i got like one minor or something divine but you're a good driver though i think you're quite aware of your surroundings i'm a confident driver because i did that hypnosis on youtube with this guy who was like i am a

confident driver i am a confident driver and now every day i think i am a confident driver and i i actually love driving. Yeah. As a pastime. No, you do actually. Because you're kind of in your own bubble. And also like at that time, I was, you know, a young person. But I didn't have like quite deep. I didn't have a space of my own. Like I didn't have like a safe space.

Like I was kind of like begging the council to house me. Like I was begging for somewhere to live. So when I had a car, it like oh my god i could just go anywhere in this vehicle and like just shut shut my doors and i'm in my own room and i would just music you can have your music and like i love that getting that car was like and like driving was such a magical thing for me yeah yeah like such an important thing i felt so free as a young woman like i i yeah i agree that i i had that feeling of like i remember writing in my journal like when you get a car you can leave this town like that's crazy like living in a small town anyone that lives in a

small town you'll know it's like you fucking need a car you can go anywhere you want if you've got a car so when you say small town like what does that mean how what do you mean i don't know like so like i what i mean by my small town yeah it's like a small rural town it's actually developing a lot like it's not so small as when i was growing up there are many new um estates being built every right um so what so like almost like is there a is there a like hospital and stuff there's a hospital yeah my sister was born there they tried to birth me into this world there but i rejected it and i said take me to the bigger one i want to be born in oxford oh okay so you were born in the city i was born half and half really i was born i would they try i tried to but then

they had they had to get like forceps and stuff to drag me into the world. What, so your mum was moved in labour? During the birth, I think, yeah. Bloody hell, Sefi, that's a bit crazy. I know, I nearly died. I had like a cord wrapped around my neck. Wow, the umbilical cord. The umbilical cord was strangling me. What were you doing that for, crazy girl?

Look, drama queen. I know, silly girl, she couldn't even be born right. Drama queen. I know, honestly, dramatic girl. God, well, thank God for that. I'm actually going to touch her. I've got a scar on my head from the forceps. Do you? Somewhere, I'll try and show you at some point. she couldn't even be born right drama queen i know honestly god well thank god for that i'm actually gonna touch on my head from the forceps do you somewhere i'll try and show you at some point oh i didn't know you were forceps that's really sweet yeah a little forcep kid i was born

um bum first as you know oh yeah with no hip socket so no hip socket big entrances we made to the world honestly we came in the bag left oh god okay well i really had some fun with that um same also just on the driving note i had one little thing oh go on i had a horrific drive the other day oh yeah um i drove back from bristol yeah and i i was crying it was terrible like i really had like a bad drive yeah um i was just making like mistakes and stuff and it was just horrible and there was one point where i was merging onto the motorway and there was this girl in another car and she had to like move i kind of pulled into her and she had to like move over the car and she looked through the window at me and it was one of those things i thought did she listen to the podcast and we really made eye contact because she was like fuming at me because i nearly

and you just cut her up and like i honestly absolutely i'm not a good driver and i'm just terrified basically i'm actually fine i'm just not you are yeah um and i literally thought oh my god that's a funny one yeah and i was like I'm so sorry and I really she was our age like she kind of looked like she recognized me a little bit and I thought I love her sorry so if you're listening to this gosh I'm so sorry that was just a terrible drive it seemed worse it was one of my worst works oh god but yeah okay just had to get off my chest no I'm glad sorry I um cut you off. No, you never did. You never did. Okay. Go and see you at Cambridge.

Oh, fucking fuck. In a gigantic room, apparently. I'm going to try it. I'd almost rather have a small room filled than a big room empty. I think it's a bit late for that. Oh, God. Please come. Oh, no, it's too late now for you. Oh, God. Please come. Oh, no, it's too late now for you.

Oh, God. It's already happened. How did it go? How did it go? Oh, God. Did we fall on our faces? Actually, I don't want to know. I don't want to know either.

I don't want to know. Oh, God. Yeah, I am feeling something. I'm really feeling something now. Well, if you don't hear from us. If you don't hear from us assume the worst