Goes Without Saying - imperfections & forgiveness: long story short, you survived

Episode Date: July 19, 2023

staying up to spiral over the embarrassing thing you said in year 10 is a full time job <3join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukspeak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. In the early 1980s, gay men started to get sick from AIDS. Years before ACT UP, before HIV was discovered, before the history you know, there were people on the front lines of the fight against AIDS. Joe Sonnabit. Michael Callen. Bobby Campbell.

I'm Dane Stewart, and in the new season of my podcast, Resurrection, I tell the stories of heroes of the early AIDS movement. Like the story of a cabaret singer and a sex worker who invented safe sex and saved millions and millions and millions of lives. Go check out Resurrection

wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. And we're back.

The Fairy Pod Mothers are back for another episode. And this is all about reflecting on our past and learning to break through the shame and hatred and all those girly things and move into a space of looking at who we've been in our younger selves with a little bit of kindness and a little bit of love this is a great episode if you want a little bit of reassurance that you're doing okay send this to your mates who are needing a little bit of extra love in this time of hardship on earth and hopefully we'll see you next time enjoy all right god i'm not gonna lie it's our third attempt i think it's our fourth

that last one was our third and we got a good five minutes in before we were like no no no i think it was let's bring the penny pizzazz to this one this has to be right whatever happens in this is going happens what happens on the podcast stays all right well how are you going how are you doing over there i'm doing good i'm doing a lot better than i was last week which is so fucking nice it was definitely in second wing terms assume the worst times she was in the pits it was the pits it was the absolute pits but i'm feeling i'm coming out of the pits i'm clawing my way out of the pits i'm feeling clawing your way straight to the microphone straight to work straight to the

microphone and i'm happy to be here nice yeah me too i'm excited because we're doing multiple episodes in the day which is kind of throwing us back to the podmas vibes of where we start to get lisa's goose lisa's geese that's one of my favorite things i love when we get lisa's geese and it just goes we just we get looser as we go on as each ep goes on it just gets slightly looser and slightly should we. Should we go straight in? Yeah. This is going to be an interesting one, I think, because it's something, can I actually tell you what always, what is kind of the epitome of this like topic for me? I'm going to start with my favourite place.

It's Taylor Swift City. Let's do it. Shall we say, I think people know, but should we say that you got tickets? Oh my God, this is our first episode back since i got the tickets jesus guys fully in the trenches i'm not gonna that was a stressful day i mean that was a stressful time i knew no i knew nothing of this was going on i just got to reap the rewards of it but you went through hell i assume you did i you know what like i've seen a lot of people talking about how the uk

ticket master situation was nothing compared to the us and i think that's true um but they you look oh i'm not going to get into it too much but you could be queuing for hours and hours right and then they place you you can hear the fury starting to come out yeah then they place you in a randomized queue guess where i was fucking 35 000 way in the back i was screaming in the back saying guys guys i'm over here wait up don't go without me literally screaming from the peripheries they didn't let me in cut to didn't stand a chance had to try again then i was like 25 000 i got quite unlucky with the queues but anyway we've got tickets i'm very happy i can't though they did say yesterday they've made a lead like card holder

like lead booker event but it wasn't at the time of the pre-sale so it means that because i paid on my boyfriend's card oh god he needs to come with us jack's the one jack's going on his own bye have the time of your life at the eras tour so i don't know i've already like we'll just we'll see what happens i imagine it's all just gonna sort itself out i imagine so too i imagine somewhere down the line it'll all just work itself out i had quite a funny thing oh no go on no go you go well i was just gonna say you know if anyone's worrying about it if you bought tickets at pre-sale like i did which shout out to me in october pre-ordering midnight yeah i'm looking at my vinyl over there yeah i remember that at the time being like this is gonna save us in the long run it really i don't even have a record player and i was like fuck it i'm pre-ordering them ordering the midnight's

vinyl um for anyone worried if you got pre-sale tickets like i did at the time there's loads of like confirmation like emails from ticket master and like statements and stuff saying that it's not going to be a lead booker event they have now said that it is a lead booker event event do you know what i mean this is the stuff that happens to you when you start looking for taylor swift tickets you start coming out with all this technology i didn't know anything about restricted side view vip i've gone insane honestly but anyway we've got tickets it's gonna be all right um what were you going on about well it was just quite funny yesterday my i was meeting my friend for dinner and she was like i've got huge news and i was getting extremely excited like god i

can't wait to hear what the fuck is this gonna be like i my mind is doing um sort of what pad fiction as on the on the drive there I'm like, who has she met? What's going on? Like, oh, my God. Yeah, what is going on? It's going to be the sort of story of the ages. And I was like, is it a date? When I saw her, I was like, please let it be like a date or something really fun like that.

And she was like, it's a date with Taylor Swift. I'm going to see Taylor Swift. And I was like, oh, no, so am I. And she was like, what the fuck? You've ruined my big news. I was like, how so am i and she was like what the fuck you've ruined my big news and you've just hopped in like you don't even like her that much you didn't you didn't even do anything you just sat around doing this because also i i like her it's the seffy way i like her yeah it is the the seffy way she coasts through just because she gets what she needs just guys

yeah literally just do nothing and things work out um find yourself front row at the iris tour honestly like the the the challenges but she was like i had to take the morning off work to try and get these tickets like well this is what i was she was like you don't understand no you actually don't understand because i was legitimately thinking if i had a real job there's no way i would have been able to get these tickets and if i didn't have access to my boyfriend's credit card i wouldn't have been able to get these tickets so we'll see i'm really excited me too i can't wait for the outfits also i did actually i put this on threads and i said to my boyfriend like when i put i put on instagram like yay got tickets woohoo so happy the amount of like actual happiness and the response like people were so

happy to see that i'd got tickets it actually it might it really ranks up there with like some of the most meaningful moments that i've had in terms of like love and connection from this podcast like it really was like if you're happy for me to get tickets yeah to an artist that maybe you love or you at least know that i love like that is so it's really sweet it's really pure and sweet it's just it really that like actually meant so it's like god you you think highly of me yeah no they want you to see i'm deserving of good things that's really nice i'm not gonna lie though i was getting quite fumigated the other day because i know someone who was like running a bot to get

tickets to like scalp the tickets so what does that mean running a bot it means like people coming in running bots on like through the technology and stuff not genuine fans to resell the tickets for like a grand each yeah that's fucked and you know people doing that i don't know the people doing it but i know people that know people like i know i heard basically i heard through the grapevine i'm not gonna name names it does sound like a shit show though like the the queue system from what i've heard from you and my friend that took the morning off work to live in this hellhole yeah the ticket master hellhole like i don't understand how look i'm not here to shit on taylor swift because i'm

sure she has nothing to do with it but yeah i don't know how the artists are okay with some of the prices going out there and also some of these cues like it is kind of insane to make your fans wait through that well taylor did a huge you remember she did like a huge announcement like she didn't say fuck ticket master but she was like this is why the uk one has been so much better than the us god it was worse and what happened with the american oh my god the americans didn't stand a chance i mean that's a nightmare it was it's actually been quite crazy but i'm really excited i'm almost thinking we're gonna do a bit of a um full tour exploration of taylor swift and her discography in between now

and our date amazing i can't wait i also think i can't wait so it was quite funny because when my friend was saying like what day she was going on i was like she was like what day are you going i was like i don't know but i know that it's the day after joe jonas's birthday so to find out the day that i'm going i had to google joe jonas's birthday which is the 15th and then we're going on the 16th 16th yeah we were originally going on the 16th 16th yeah we were originally gonna go on the 15th honestly i just we were originally gonna go on joe jonas's birthday but the only thing i knew is that i'm going to see taylor swift the day after joe jonas's birthday so i had to really find the information but the reason i bring her up i promise it was for good reason is because i

feel like this whole conversation kind of i feel like she epitomizes for me or has made me question this kind of whole topic um more than ever really and it's the way that i'm essentially watching a woman now in her 30s in her early 30s with the kind of reclaiming and re-recording of her previous work publicly revisit and not only acknowledge but like celebrate who she was when she was 25 21 19 18 15 like taylor swift i think and with the era's tour we'll soon see looks back on all of her previous iterations of like who she's been and what she's done at least publicly with like a real strong sense of um like love and compassion for her previous self and i think it's something that is very rare and not something that i think comes naturally to us as people as young women like you

know the drill so i just thought it'd be an interesting conversation of like how do you feel about who you've been i know we're so embarrassing i know we're so cringe but where are you what kind of relationship do you have with your past selves it's so funny because i do feel like i see a lot of selves like i almost see an era's tour for myself of like right okay there's the there are all those eras like it's not just like oh my child self and then me it's like god yeah there are fucking stages of this shit like when i feel like i always think back to like my child self like if i'm like oh would my who i would my younger self be proud of me or like what would my younger self think about that i really do have a specific image in mind that comes to me every single time which was like me i don't know almost what year i would have been but like almost like a year five year six sort of girl yeah um and i can really

just feel my level of like um confidence and like self-assuredness in it because i think i can really track i think basically puberty is when all of the shit sort of starts to come in like self-doubt realizing you're a woman in this world and all of the stuff i think i can really track um a huge peak in my confidence at like that those at certain ages but i think i i can really feel a sense of like purity in like that slightly prepubescent age and i think i feel really good towards that i feel like i feel where the mess starts to come in is definitely through the teenagers teenage years and there's like a million stages to it but i think i feel hugely positive about the decisions I've made who I am um my beliefs and like what I've done and like how I think and all that stuff like there are loads of things I'm like god I could have done without fucking farting in the drama class once that was embarrassing

fart joke fart joke literally all aboard I could have done without little embarrassing things but you know what i do really look back with like a huge fondness yeah towards all iterations of myself have you always or is that something that's changed over time because i think i i don't i think i don't struggle to look back on myself I think the thing that I find hard is to be like oh me I don't because also throughout those times I don't think if I felt of myself positively necessarily yeah but I think I can always look back with love and see the journey I think the thing that's the struggle is then being like okay so if that girl that like um 18 year old girl that 22 year old girl that

seven year old girl deserves love does the version that i'm in now deserve to be like herself and loved for just whoever she is i think that's the bit that i struggle to connect but yeah i think i've always felt like um i i just yeah i think i've always felt like that what about you i think that's quite um impressive really because i think it's i i kind of i think there are different ways of looking at it i definitely see as well the idea that like we have so much like insecurity ingrained in us that the hindsight allows us to look back and think oh maybe i wasn't that bad sort of thing and you can kind of compare like oh I wasn't actually ugly when I was 11 I just thought I thought I was actually like a little cutie girl whatever um so I get that but I also think generally like having fondness and like almost a confidence and like a self-assuredness in like the decisions you've made and being able

to like own the embarrassing stuff is like a real um skill but something to be really proud of i think it says a lot about who you are in your present day if you're able to look back like even if you're not the biggest fan all the time yeah who you are right now i think who you are right now must be pretty all right I mean you know how I feel about you I think you're amazing but like I think it's pretty cool to be able to like look back and know that you've always felt relatively good in like who you are and like the things you've done yeah there are definitely points that like if I think about certain points within my life I'm like oh yeah that was a hard time like there

were certain things that like I was doing that made my life harder or like that was a real struggle but I don't feel any embarrassment or shame or anything about any of my like there's no bit of me of my like story that I would cover up in any way sort of thing have you always been like that you always felt i think so i can't think of a time that i've been like oh god let's just pretend that whole era whatever didn't happen like let's pretend that or like um let's just pretend year 11 didn't happen or like oh god let's not talk about um that holiday or like all of it this is what i mean that you are really um you do have that something that special something i love when you say this because it's so kind it's just so true

it's literally i'm just it's straight facts like it's so objectively true that like you do have a kind of natural level of confidence to who you are as a human being like you do think quite highly of yourself as you should but even i just think naturally like you can be really critical of who you are in the moment and yeah it goes without saying like i won't labor the point like you can be really way too hard on yourself and and you know yeah but generally to be able to look back like with a fondness at who you've been in the past i think is a really special thing because we're told to be ashamed of who we are and like not being good enough or like not doing well enough or not looking good enough or not doing the right thing oh god and that shit eats me alive like that is uh like i mean look at me last week

maybe i wouldn't be saying the same things like that I was consumed with the idea that I'm completely failing completely not good enough all of the stuff last week but I still think I know that I felt like that um when I was 14 17 all of these ages but I can still look back and be like oh that's like a worthy human being i wouldn't um yeah censor that from my memory of that person and i think like when i'm 35 i will look back at me now at 26 and be like yeah no still still happy with the decision still proud of the like everything yeah i think that's so special because i i hate that that's special though like because i do think like do you know what i'm kind of i don't think you should take it for granted i don't know that's really nice i don't think it's a florence given in this world it makes me think of quite a random thing um and

i don't know what the general consensus of her at the moment is i think at the time the consensus of her was very great and this is when i watched this documentary but now i believe there are some things i've seen that i'm not a huge fan of okay jesse from little mix ah yes okay jesse from little right yeah don't know what's going on with her now at the time she made a documentary this was i don't know five years ago made a documentary on iplayer that was about kind of her struggles in a girl band blah blah blah but her therapy that she had like a lot of her therapy was about like she had tried to blank out this like era of her life where she was like on x factor and she was like the one that was forced to wear like i don't know sort of baggy clothes and be like singing raps and stuff and it's like wait but that isn't necessarily me like and i'm next

to these other girls that maybe aren't having to do that but obviously have other struggles um and she i don't know that like a load of the therapy was that she was like having to make peace with this like past version of herself that she was like so mortified about and like wanted to cover up but she couldn't because it was all over the internet and it was just quite interesting to me at the time because i remember thinking god that would be really traumatic to have such a negative view to the point that you want to erase it and just be like oh let's like not like i don't feel any love towards that version of me even though that was the version of me that got me like all of the success and all of the stuff that she had slash has i don't know what she's doing now we can leave it in the past tense i reckon don't know what you're doing now jesse i haven't

seen great things um but yeah i just thought it was interesting that it's like oh my god it must be so traumatic to be able to like pinpoint a version of yourself that's like this version here between the years of 2011 and 2015 makes me like want to cry like i feel so much shame around it yeah i don't think that is a given i don't think i think that is i reckon that's much more of a common experience it's definitely something i've felt for like the majority of my life up until like last year or something what that you would look back so if i was to say therapy yeah any version if i was to say think of your 12 year old self you wouldn't be able to look at that with love i would now but before no so what would you feel shame i would feel shame and embarrassment okay well what if we went really younger five

oh yeah i mean the cuter you get the easier it is well it's almost like the more innocent like it's like you can object you know five-year-olds and i know some fucking bratty 12 year olds but like i know five-year year olds and they're all pretty, they're all as innocent as can fucking get. Well, it's funny because I always would have thought that she was innocent. I just would have thought she wasn't good enough. But I almost feel like in, especially like youth, it's almost like even the worst kid is still a kid.

Of course. Of course. Yeah. even the worst kid is still a kid of course of course yeah but it's just how ingrained is the self-hatred of like you don't feel that who you are or who you've been is valid as a human being it's actually something that literally even a couple of i was gonna say a couple of episodes ago a couple of sessions ago with my therapist we were talking about like it can become a kind of philosophical question of like your belief in how much humans are or are not inherently worthy yeah but the amount of worth that you place on like these different versions of yourself um and what would make what would you have to do really to be

completely unworthy or like yeah think about the lengths you would go exactly to like protect someone that you love to like think about how like for example there's a man that you love or there's someone that you love but like let's say like a romantic person because we let the shit slide with them often all right there's someone that you love romantically in your life think about the shit someone has to do to make you be like i I don't love them anymore, that I'm going to walk away. Like, I do feel like the amount that you let slide for someone that you love, that you think is like a worthy person. I think just other people.

Yeah, totally. But I'm almost saying like someone that you feel an extreme feeling for. It's like, okay, so let's just be like for ourselves. It's like, so you've really done nothing really wrong no nothing all you've done is what you um once got a bit angry at your friend and you overstepped the mark a little bit or like you once um you looked a little bit bad in that photo or you kind of it's just a load of shit you got nine out of ten instead of ten out of ten big deal you didn't do anything but i think that's the that's the thing is it's not about okay well how worthy or unworthy were

you it's more so like okay why was it so difficult to build any sense of like self-worth and acknowledgement of your own um self like why is it so difficult for you to show compassion towards you towards yourself like why do you have this like objectively impossible standard that you're putting not just yourself under but like yourself as a 15 year old yourself as a 10 year old like it isn't um nice but it also something that's been really nice for me is like learning that it isn't um like a static conclusive definitive thing it's something that i've changed over time like now i definitely feel much more aligned with what you were saying of like there's no version of me that i don't look at and feel like such a strong fondness compassion

love for to the point where i feel that way about myself now in the present which is like the most important and also like mind-blowing like question mark question mark i don't know how i've done it yeah sort of thing but like to actually feel good about myself and who i've been but i do think for a lot of people that's really really fucking hard because it's so much more natural or at least in my own experience it was just so much more natural to hate myself and to feel shame around who i was even as a 10 year old and that is really hard to like unlearn and move past it's impossible almost like i do feel like that's i i completely agree with that that i think one of the biggest things that i need to work on is like just being nicer to myself like always having like a compassionate um approach to myself

like that is a hundred percent one of the main struggles top priority issues to work on like there needs to be a way that i can um use the like almost like yeah okay so i can feel the love for myself as a concept of like the past that i've seen i can track the growth of this like human on this planet and i can look at her there's so much this is a concept it's not real anymore it doesn't exist like you're you're in love with the memory you can be like oh my god i love this um girl i can see her growing up and it's like i think i have so much like pride in her and i can see her value and all of the stuff but and also in the same way i can see um a future of myself that i i love and i think oh yeah that's so amazing blah blah blah but these things aren't real like you really you can't you

can't talk to that girl anymore like you there's nothing there like you know would she even relate to someone saying that would she see it for? Who knows because it's not real anymore. Like what actually is the only thing that matters is whether you can feel it in each moment that you continue to grow. Can you be like, oh, I feel pride and I feel warmth and I feel like love for and compassion and all of the stuff for the version of you that you are now

and that to me is the fucking hard bit yeah to actually like be able to go to bed at night or like look at yourself in the mirror now see who you are now in the light like not kind of through this balm like censored filtered lens of hindsight and distance yeah it's like to really live with who you are now in an active sense tomorrow are you gonna wake up and feel positively or negatively about who you are and being in your own body wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap.

Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay.

I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. and we are a part.

Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com. I think a huge part of that is having the narrative or like to be able to look back without shame. Like I think that would, if you look back on certain things of yourself with shame, that will be a huge hindrance

to being able to see yourself in the present day with any sort of love because the only reason you are yourself now is because of all the stuff that that version of you did five years ago and two years ago three weeks ago so i think it kind of is crucial to unlocking that but also i do think there's a huge leap to be made between being like oh my god i can look at it's why to be honest therapists and all the fucking people of the world that are trying to like help you are which are not that many people to be honest but therapists say things like crickets yeah it's like show yourself no one make yourself known therapists that you maybe have paid or gone through some kind of doctor system to get

that's why they say oh picture a child version of yourself because that inherently is the version of the version of yourself that you will find most lovable because yeah there is an idea of innocence that's before you did any of the stuff that you maybe have felt was like oh i hated that i spoke to that person like that i hated that i treated that person like that i hate that i did that like all of the stuff that you don't like or the things that we consider like bad traits before all of that really comes in that's the version of ourself that's most lovable so if you have a version almost like considered innocent and lovable and worthy if you have an issue loving even that version that to me explains why you would have a huge disconnect with the version of you now because you couldn't even love the most like core basic

just born onto this planet version of yourself and almost kind of just like the biological like human um nature kind of element of being able to look at a baby a puppy can you love a puppy if the answer is no i do think as well it kind of feeds back into what we were saying um like an episode or two ago about how there are literally like i don't know if i would say objectively unworthy or bad or whatever i'm no god believe it or not i'm just very just a mere human just a mere human girl but there are people i know for a fact walking around this earth right now and they are so shit like they are mean and nasty and evil yeah they are not good and they don't feel that bad from what i can see they're nasty piece of work they're mean and a liar and pathetic and mean they're actually like so beyond the scope of anything that i can almost guarantee most of us having this conversation

and like listening to this now yeah have ever even entertained the thought of being like this only sorry go on sorry well i was just gonna say like the idea of when we were saying like the amount of guilt and shame and like horror we feel about getting nine out of ten on an exam for example or like stepping on someone's toes at work sort of thing but just even like um oh god i didn't i blushed a bit that was embarrassing stupid stupid blushing skin like god what is going on yeah yeah i think it's about building some level of perspective on like that was actually something that really helped me with my therapist was going through and i know i spoke about this before but like a list of like not just like i am i am nice i am kind but like a list of like oh i did that evidence yeah evidence looking for some cold hard facts yeah that your mind will find

it harder and harder to argue with yeah because the mind will do crazy things to try and convince you that you are deserving of like this shame and like you need to be better to survive like you're not good enough you're not good enough it's just not true yeah like you are safe you are good enough like you're gonna be fine you're absolutely gonna be fine it's kind of what we were saying in that episode a few episodes ago i think it's two episodes ago um where we were like there are literal rapists and murderers i just said no it is that but it's like there are literal right we were we were talking about that in a few episodes ago where it's like there are literal rapists and murderers walking around yeah that's what i just said there are bad people

oh that was i know trying to say no yeah i know i was saying we said that a few episodes ago when we literally said the words rapists and murderers exactly yeah they don't know they're literally raping and murdering people what are you doing like not doing good enough at work dot dot dot it does really show it doesn't it it's like come on god okay right the pressure the level of pressure and it's not to say they should if they don't feel it we shouldn't it's to say it's like look people the the narratives is everything because these people don't think that they did anything wrong they literally don't think they did anything wrong like even if they did just have an awareness of like is the way that you're treating yourself proportionate

or i think disproportionate to like your actions and who you actually are as a person i just think it says loads about the inner inner monologue because it's like there will be people that that i know have done sort of arsehole-ish things to me no one's done something crazy but like just that like objectively when i really look at the situation or like not even me someone i know someone that's actually a bit of a dickish way to someone for example yeah i know that they have managed to convince themselves that they they are in the right they're not thinking about it anymore it's not an issue to them but the way that i know that people that i know and me personally would be up at night stressing and stressing like oh my god i can't believe i did that i'm gonna need to send an apology but like all of the stuff it's

like god look let yourself off the hook for um breathing the wrong way kind of oh god i did that i um didn't thank the bus driver loudly enough it's like look let's just take a breath like people um are not stressing over like things they actually did wrong which they should be but let's just chill yeah yeah um i have a little thing oh go on just in terms of like a past version of our collective selves okay us as sephie and wing yes i listened back recently to like i literally got five minutes in not maybe not even to our first ever episode late night overthinking colon you up genius i haven't listened to anything i don't know about you anything from our quote-unquote higher priestess era

since since we were in the era i haven't listened back to a scrap of that yeah we just we turned the lights off we didn't look back we just kept on running yeah get the car going yeah pack your things we're leaving yeah so i what i and as i was thinking as i was listening i was thinking save it you have to listen to this with weighing together like you have to go back and like listen to our first episode together like it is so it's sweet what shocked me is it's a good episode it is from what i was hearing don't kill me you know they're all gonna go back and listen to it now and say thank you i know well i listened to three minutes it's a good episode this is what i mean the self-assuredness is so strong well it's so quick to give herself a compliment and i come under that radar now which

is amazing yeah i can't speak to the remaining sort of 57 minutes of the episode exactly yeah three minutes i listen it's a good episode full stop good episode good great book read the first page yeah but yeah i just think we should listen back to it together because it's so funny to listen to us kind of doing a podcast these like really young and like sweet and kind of like hopeful selves starting a thing with such a level of confidence and we say at the beginning it's like i'm erin and i'm persephone it's like who who and you're listening to high priestess like it's so cute we would have just done the intro and just gone straight in yeah we like we just like say what it is we just say like okay let's go we just think like what how does a podcast work just start speaking which is kind of

it and we say in the first episode it's like we're singing our theme tune music and then we're like we're never gonna change it sort of thing we're like you thought we're gonna change it and it's like god still going with that same music which was like youtube youtube free royalty free song i have such a fondness for our high priestess times i also just just interesting little bit of brighton law for anybody the hotel haunted hotel which that episode is not up though no it's not but it's where we recorded our pilot season some of the pilot season episodes i think we did two there right sorry just first of all the arrogance to do a pilot season it's hilarious we've always found funny little words to call things do you

know also it's just quite funny i don't think a pilot season is a thing like you would do a pilot and that's to show if you get a season you do a pilot episode i think you get a pilot episode to get a season yeah i don't think you can do a pilot season we could do anything on a podcast i think we kind of it's like just the arrogance to be like this is our pilot season i don't think it's arrogance i think it's hilarious words innocence it's innocence and it's fun to be like i'm not gonna call it um it's not like this i'm gonna call it that do you know what i mean it's like it's not a shampoo it's a hair detoxifier yeah beautiful do you know what i mean yeah we just pretty up a little bit i just write in law

i love it um the hotel that stephanie and i stayed in and record recorded um a very spooky halloween episode in which the fire alarm kept going off repeatedly god i forgot i did has has burnt down they're gonna have to demolish it the whole thing is like it was literally up in flames the other day i know i had a booking so they go but um last month as well but cancelled it which is funny to think but that's kind of the annoying thing to say that that's kind of a really annoying like oh my god i was almost in 9-11 i was literally supposed to be in new york like two weeks before and they cancelled it well i hope people just don't hate themselves yeah me too yeah that would be nice i really hope you don't and if you do because i to

be honest i think realistically chances are you probably do have a level of hatred in yourself you're only human you've only been raised in a hellhole like you probably do have some layer of hate or guilt or shame around yourself i would say what i'm trying to do is just try and bring it in even though it seems so fucking unnatural and fake and false and i don't believe a word of it but every time that i feel like a like almost like my habit is to go to a hateful thought of like you fuck something up before you've even known it you've been like a fucking idiot in your head is just to be like oh my god you're just doing so amazing like just kind of almost really overcompensating like if for example i'm doing a lot when i look

in the mirror i'll look in the mirror and my natural thought just out of years of habit will be like oh god like put on some makeup like let's do this let's fix it fix it face it sort of thing yeah i'm trying to be like god stunning beautiful oh my god jesus christ sexy mama i'm trying to overly do it and actually it's so funny because it's like you don't believe it but before you know it i'm starting to catch myself actually looking in the mirror and being like oh my god stunning it's like oh my god the thoughts are um fire is catching like almost yeah no it's true yeah the thoughts are they're multiplying it's a skill it's a muscle yeah so i think i've literally changed my life like

i need to find the bullet points online the I think the bullet, one of the huge bullet points for you, you've had a really good therapist. Like I do think that has coincided with this whole movement, let's call it. Movement, yeah. Let's call it a global movement. It has been a movement. But I want to relay some of the learnings.

Yeah. Because I've never, I'm not gonna lie i spent like my whole life i spent the whole time on this podcast being like guys like we can like each other not believing it like we're never gonna like we're never gonna like ourselves like we can do it no we can't like i just almost thought like is that real like can you can you move past like a really deep level of self-hatred like looking at yourself at 12 and being like guilt shame like horrific with so much hate but it's like no you really can that's insane that's no it's it's fucking mental but i think also the taylor swift thing helps of like you can be literally 33 years old and singing a

song you wrote when you were 15 on your own or to thousands and thousands of people regardless if you can feel some level of like fondness and compassion for that 15 year old self do you think she does 100 100 million percent the way that she at least publicly acknowledges and like reflects on who she's been what she's done the things she said the things she's worn the music she's made the friends she's had the experiences the way that she reflects on that publicly is with so much um like sincerity and something i need to find some youtube videos of this i need to get go down the tailor hole before i see her i'll take you yeah do um but even in the way that she speaks not even through like her music and her like career but even if she's at like a speaking

event something she says a lot at the moment is like you're gonna be really cringe you're gonna look back or like you're gonna be embarrassing you're gonna fuck up you're going to be really cringe. You're going to look back or like you're going to be embarrassing. You're going to fuck up. You're going to be silly. Just own it. Like you're going to be cringe. And I think that's a really, how else do you, I mean, to be like in your thirties

and still going through a career when everyone's seeing you at 16, you must, I think you have no choice but to get to a point of understanding your self-worth, like and being able to look back and appreciate who you've been otherwise i just think she wouldn't do it she wouldn't be doing it anymore also to have kind of documentable eras exactly is an insane thing to have that's like an act

and that everyone else can recognize your eras of your life that under this dress and i know exactly where she was when she wore it it's insane it's actually insane like i mean it would it was it's gonna make you really unwell basically so i really hope she's okay like that is really really stressful of an experience so i really hope she's okay wouldn't wish it on anyone no i would not wish it on the curse of being a genius the curse of being a voice of a generation. Yeah, literally. Right.

Well, I really hope we see you next time. Oh, I can't wait. Also, I saw a thing about her bringing out Taylor Lautner. I would fucking love that. I need to take you through the Speak Now lore. Like, well, all I know is there's a song called Back to December. Back to December. Which is about Taylor Lautner.

It is, yeah. And he loves her or something. He's a sweetie boy. to december which is about taylor lorna it is yeah and he's like he's she like he like loves her or something like he's like yeah he's a sweetie he's like is one of the nicest songs about a man or something like that it is yeah um and i really can't wait to hear it i've never heard it don't listen don't listen to ever to the song without me oh well i want to know the words when um when she sings it you're not gonna be there without you're gonna know everything okay i can't wait do you know the playlist the set list i mean i absolutely i do okay i can't wait so i need to learn them all before i know the outfits okay okay can we go through the set

list set list before so that i can know what's coming i'm gonna take you through the whole thing and it's gonna be documented is it it's? It's going to be a visceral experience. Oh my God, I can't wait. Yeah. All right, cool. I can't wait. Cool. Hopefully we'll see you next time, guys.

See you in 2024. If you don't hear from us. Assume the worst.