Goes Without Saying - insecure, jealous, & fucking unhinged: ladies & gentlemen... Her

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on monogomy, desire, rejection, childhood trauma, katy perry, dating, feminine fury, Amorous Exchanges and Awkward Encounters. ✷shop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.ukhear more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwingwatch more ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Like the story of a cabaret singer and a sex worker who invented safe sex and saved millions and millions and millions of lives. Go check out Resurrection wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com It goes without saying you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing.

And this episode is perfect if you are feeling jealous, bitter, and spiteful right now. We're here to take all the shame out of feeling jealousy. I mean, we've all needed this episode at some point in our life. And if you need it right now, this here to take all the shame out of feeling jealousy i mean we've all needed this episode at some point in our life and if you need it right now this is for you enjoy stunning wow jesus god that's a really good news reader cool bloody hell bloody hell i need some kind of tech whiz to show me around. Bloody hell almighty. Holy hell. Holy hell.

So we're not doing too well, holy hell. We're in the pits, holy hell. Have you been assuming the worst? Because if so, you were right. You were right. It's not even like that. It's not like that at all. No, no, it's not.

Just a wing's jaw. What the fuck? I'm in a state of despair, frankly. I've got a bad jaw. Did you guys know that about me? I don't know. Did I say that my jaw is like locked? They know that you've got no hip sockets.

Yeah, I had no hip sockets, but I did grow them. You've got them now. Yeah, I didn't have them, but now I do. I just got them a bit late. The jaw is a separate issue. It's just, I've got the classic tmj but it's really bad and it's been bad tmj is you say that like it's sort of a known phrase i know i said that to i said that to fray our manager the other day because i just thought i can't i'm not going to explain it so i just put tmj and i thought if she can

she can google it if she wants but i'm not going to be like so i've got this thing and it basically blah blah blah and it's just like oh boring boring jaw crunching oh crunching jaw and sometimes wing does this face where as long as i've known you've been doing this but you'll just start crunching crunching crunching it's like out out out and the side of my face kind of pops out yeah um i also like separate issue the side of my like kind of pops out. Yeah. I also, like, separate issue. The side of my, like, one of my neck muscles is so swollen at the moment. So I had an ultrasound the other day, the other week. Yeah.

And where they looked at my neck and they were like, everything's fine. Because basically I thought I had cancer. This has been a long ongoing thing behind the scenes, guys, for many months. Pretty much as long as you've known me. Before the podcast oh oh yeah yeah but the cancer sort of thing that you've thought has been an ongoing thing yeah since since 2018 oh well i didn't know about it for that long jesus no i didn't tell any yeah no i did actually because one time i was on campus i was at the doctors on campus and i was crying

in the doctors on campus i knew we were friends at this point i didn't tell you jesus it's a bit weird behavior from me but anyway it's like i was actually just stressed about my dissertation like it's fine but projecting onto the net projecting onto this thing that i had but anyway i got it i had an ultrasound the ultrasound was fine but there are some ongoing issues and i do have tmj and i have an mri in a couple of weeks so um oh i just want this jaw like snapped off and give me a new one i don't want it snapped off you but i think something needs to happen because something's gotta give it's killing me that is a crazy place to be feeling pain and it's just one of those things you don't think about how much you use your jaw because i've been thinking about my jaw for the last few days just trying to get into your pain i'm thinking god using my jaw right now using my mindset

i've been thinking about it does hurt or not even hurt like even if it's not hurting it's it's range of movement is limited which isn't ideal but anyway it's so sorry to bring this up at the beginning guys boring no not boring at all but that's where i've been physically and what about you then so you're in you're in holy hell as well i'm just in holy hell in general at the moment um just that is i live in holy hell i am kind of hades these days i'm living up to my name and just living in hell um and yeah literally the queen of hell right now yeah um just everything's not nice in my house right now my grandma stuff is still going on she's still in hospital on and off palliative care very weird situation um it's just fucking awful and weird as fuck um yeah so

i'm just in a weird sort of limbo stage and then to cherry on top i'm ill i'm like i've got some kind of um cold but i'm going to portugal tomorrow um to see my dad and my little sister so that will be nice that'll be really nice to get away from it all for a second but i mean it doesn't stop any of the shitness it just puts me in a different environment different space but it'll be nice to be you know in a different environment with the different bubble it's important yeah yeah that's nice okay we're talking about something quite different then from all of that yeah that was a dump unfortunately we won't be speaking about tmj and holy hell um do you want to introduce us or set the scene well somebody wrote in saying could we talk about compare and despair which

is a phrase i've heard before from therapists and is just a phrase that i know is in the um in the lingo in the lingo compare and despair and we recently were speaking about somebody um just you know can we say somebody you did a face as in like yeah it depends where you're gonna go with this but yeah take it away we were speaking about somebody who they basically said on the internet that they don't get jealous they were just like i just don't get jealous it's just not a feeling i get uh-huh and we were kind of talking about it we were kind of baffled we were kind of dumbfounded hey as you can imagine we were immediately skeptical confused confused.com if you remember that it just doesn't seem to add up something else we had another message that said

how do you deal with your um did they say boyfriend yeah i think it was boyfriend how do you deal with your um did they say boyfriend yeah i think it was boyfriend how do you deal with your boyfriend being attracted to somebody else how do you cope i think was the phrasing yeah and we said not very well not well don't cope well um and then we start talking about jealousy in general and actually yeah this is just a big thing big thing this episode about how to normalize jealousy the normalization of being a bit um unhinged i think when it comes to feeling compared to other human beings on the planet yeah as i get older i think i get more aware of how so then we were also speaking about this is a final thing yeah and i'm gonna be a bit vague here because i do intend on coming back to this in months to come hopefully where we have partnered

with whatever basically yeah yeah this is the brand that we want to talk about but we really want to talk about it but we can't but anyway so i came across this thing that is kind of hard to explain now without without going into too much detail but for example there's this man right i so basically i said to sephie i think i'm i think i'm realizing that i'm a slightly more jealous than the average person and sephie said no i don't i hope you don't mind me saying you said i don't think you're necessarily more jealous than the average person i just think a lot of people don't admit how jealous they are and i said so true but also there was this one situation with um let's say a fictional man in which the setting which is exactly what it

is he's a fictional man and um the wing is in love with i'm in pain i'm actually you know i'm in a good i haven't been in those parts for like a few days I'm feeling all right yeah okay yeah that's good so I'm feeling a bit of distance I was actually thinking about you I was thinking the jaw must be quite a nice relief from this love that you feel at the moment for this fictional man yeah I think the love has just been a bit baffling and confusing and a bit um honestly disorientating very yeah and potentially rewiring my whole brain and existence yeah no i think it is so if you don't mind me saying yeah yeah just pretty much changing who i am as a person at my core but anyway which is why we

need to work with this brand with the brand so anyway fictional man and there's an there's an offering here there's a there's like a there's some there's a fictional display of this fictional man yeah with with a with another woman who obviously isn't me because i'm real and she's fictional and everyone else is enjoying it and loving it and living it up and being like oh my god like i love seeing him i love the idea of him kissing this girl blah blah putting themselves i guess in the place of the woman that he is with in this fictional space and i cannot find that joy i am fucking fuming that he's someone else here it's fictional man dare to look at a fictional woman just devastating to know that you're not the only woman on the planet sometimes yeah no that is actually sometimes a devastating

realization it is sometimes and look i'm so happy to be here with all of us together but sometimes it would be nice to have all eyes on you i think it's fair to say i think it's fair in a vulnerable moment too I think it's fair to say um well I think it's it goes without saying that obviously we would be sometimes a little bit touchy about the idea of our kind of like intimacy being shared or divided like the value that we are being given by someone that we so desperately want value from that um validation being shared with other people could be painful it is it is fundamentally painful i think yeah i just think obviously romantic relationships and desire and all of these all of these things breed so much comparison because that is fundamentally what it is so we're talking here i think as well mostly from the experience of a monogamous heteronormative

heterosexual relationship yeah and so we're talking about gender we're talking about the idea of like being this kind of cool girl who isn't bothered by anything and it's just like yeah she has no standards and no boundaries and she just lets everything slide woohoo we're having the time of his life yeah what should be shattered well i am shattered i'm absolutely devastated the last thing i would describe myself as is unbothered or cool yeah in any way i think do you remember a few good few episodes ago can't remember in what capacity i don't know for why i brought this up but i was talking about a situation where it was a parent's evening

and i was like four or five years old no maybe that's a bit too young i was probably like seven or eight i was really young under the age of 10 and it was like oh erin's amazing she's like top in this she's top in this she's top in this and she's like second to the top in this one thing yeah and then one of my parents was like really upset about that yeah weirdo i think um do you yeah do you yeah because it's an it's objectively crazy response it is an objectively crazy response to have a child really succeeding and even if they weren't succeeding necessarily but it's like they're this this kid is doing pretty fucking well yeah doing kind of exceptionally well

actually and your response is to be like this one thing where your one mark or whatever you missed isn't good enough. And now I'm going to compare you to the other child who was also my best friend. I'm going to compare you to the other child who did that one mark better or whatever and kind of insinuate that I don't want you as a daughter. I want the other person. So I think that must be so huge for me. Sorry, did they say they want the other one as a child? So I remember one of my parents being like,

the other parent, the parent who's being normal in that situation, was being like, no, Erin, don't be upset. We love you. You did amazing. We don't want Sefi as our daughter, do we? Oh, God, don't bring me into this. I know. We don't want Susan as our daughter do we oh god don't bring me into this we don't want susan as our daughter do we and the other parent didn't reply just was giving the silent treatment on the way home very bizarre thing to do to yeah really really old um so that's

just where i'm at guys that's what you're dealing with here well it just breeds in comparison so early and it's like really horrifically in us throughout life like don't worry i don't need that in me at age eight because by the time i'm 16 it will have been drilled in there anyway so thanks for that don't you worry and also kind of so it's it's comparison it's kind of the perfectionism thing of like you could get you could have everything pristine but if you kind of just fluff up one of like you could get you could have everything pristine but if you kind of just fluff up one word then you're meaning you're worthless and all of like just there's so much there and i think that experience among i'm sure many other things has added to me

i do think i probably am a bit more jealous than the average person um but i also think i'm quite um aware and like i think there's an angle of jealousy that can be quite like cruel to others so i and i don't think that's where i'm at no no you're not i don't think my jealousy makes me harbor like a bitterness towards other people i think i have that all for myself the bitterness just lives in me for me yeah i think also there are two different almost there's jealousy exists as an emotion which is not inherently bad but the shame and stuff that we put on it as a society of keep it secret keep it hidden don't tell anyone and just kind of you are bad for thinking that that's what then makes it manifest as like that bitter sort of like outward um yeah jealous like outward sort of hatred like you know when

you're in a conversation with someone and they snap at you they bite or like if you've ever told someone something that you're doing that like maybe isn't even that good or just like a not just like a thing that happened to you that was nice or something that you did and you could just see it all over their face just sort of like them trying to contort their face into a smile but you can just read it so much and we've all been literally we've all been there like that is not a bad that does not make them a bad person it just means they're struggling with the same shit everyone else is struggling with but that only comes from the layers of shame over actually feeling it yes like there's nothing wrong with the actual feeling of being like fucking hell i feel like i'm comparing myself

to everyone i feel jealous of everyone i wish i had that opportunity i wish i had that i wish i looked like that i wish i had that grade whatever the fuck it is that isn't um bad that's actually to be expected and that is um good that you're feeling that that is a human emotion that drives you and also if you got throughout your whole life without feeling jealousy you might be a sociopath i don't know i'm not here to diagnose but there might be something true off there so true there probably is like that's a really normal it's like oh i went through my whole life without feeling anger without feeling something off there then it's like well yeah so you're you are a medical anomaly then you are no it's not good that's not necessarily a good thing but the thing that is horrible that the that sort of the most painful bit of jealousy is then the

attachment that we put on of that sort of um god i felt a twinge of like jealousy when my friend said that which means that i am therefore worse than her i am like evil inside i wish doom on her it's like no you don't you just were raised to feel like women are your natural competitors which in this weird fucking way they kind of have become that which obviously we don't want that that is not nice but you are on a macro social scale yeah that is a very normal human emotion it doesn't mean that you should act on that it means that you should communicate it yeah and i think also validate it like and kind of coming back to the thing of like

being in a relationship with someone and how do you cope with them being attracted to somebody else i think there's a lot of emphasis put on young people young women to like take the brunt of a lot of shit and be able to handle things and be able to handle it perfectly and i don't think there should be shame in being able to like reflect on a situation being like you know what i didn't handle that amazingly and i didn't really have to and i'm learning and i'm carrying on here we go keep going like yeah and also with something i think as specific as if you're in a monogamous relationship and the person is expressing for whatever reason an attraction to somebody else i would just like to validate you in being a little bit peeved a little bit a little bit fucking devastated actually and yeah there is a huge amount

of it that lives in that kind of abstract space of like kind of um oh like almost kind of that feminine fury of like there's something almost cartoonish about it there's something like that's a level of like humor and like um feistiness or um there's something kind of hyperbolic about it but i think at its core it's really important to validate the emotion that you're feeling of feeling um jealous and hurt because you want someone to love you yeah it's not a crime no to be like wanted and to feel special yeah it's natural as well like even it's just if you think about it and they're like sort of evolutionary level and i'm not a scientist by any um even tiny stretch of the imagination you're my scientist um i'm true

i truly know nothing but it seems to make sense that it's like, OK, so it's in. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. In the early 1980s, gay men started to get sick from AIDS. Years before ACT UP, before HIV was discovered, before the history you know, there were people on the front lines of the fight against AIDS. Joe Sonnabin. Michael Callen. Bobby Campbell.

I'm Dane Stewart, and in the new season of my podcast, Resurrection, I tell the stories of heroes of the early AIDS movement. Like the story of a cabaret singer and a sex worker who invented safe sex and saved millions and millions and millions of lives. Go check out resurrection wherever you listen to podcasts a cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com women's interest to once they have kind of mated with a man they have a child with him or once

they've picked him as somebody that they want to have sex with and that's their person it makes sense that they want to keep them around so any sort of threat from like oh i find this person attractive that's going to trigger something like quite primal in you of like no fuck this is a disaster this means that i'm losing the sort of protector blah blah blah even though we don't live in that society anymore those fears are quite irrational in the way that sexuality is um more fluid than being pregnant for nine months it's completely different from that now but also sexuality is so part of the culture in the way that men and women will feel attracted to people much more sort of casually it's like okay so you walk past an advert and it's like yeah that's a i'm attracted to that

and it's not um doesn't mean that person's gonna leave you it still triggers this huge sort of rejection in you yeah i think that's normal to also be at a particular point in your life like something we've been saying a lot recently is kind of the idea of like when you've got other things going on or you're in a certain space you're in a certain mood you're in holy hell you're in the pits whatever even if you're not even if it's just like you've got something going on at work or someone at work is um being a bit patronizing to you and it's kind of reminding you of your dad even though you're not really thinking of that in the right you know consciously like there's always you're constantly

taking in information every single day and sometimes it can be so kind of subconscious that the reaction or the emotional response that is kind of um generated by that can feel really irrational but it's probably coming from a set like it could be because of that parents evening thing and and that's okay that's gone into you that's deep yeah that's going to be there forever yeah and sometimes um someone being attracted to someone in an advert whatever regardless of whether they're going to leave you for that person in the advert or not sometimes you might not care and sometimes you might care a bit more because you're just feeling a little bit fragile and it's fine to feel a bit sensitive and fragile and it's fine to like be a human being on planet earth feeling uncomfortable

feelings also i think it depends when sort of like something could catch you at so they say oh i think this person's hot at um eight in the morning doesn't really bother you but after a day where you've had a shit day and blah blah blah it's like that then that will offend me in a way that it wouldn't or just yeah um sort of just hit me in a different way like there was an experience that I had semi recently where like how do i even say this without giving too much away but like it happened sort of in an environment that was like inherently romantic like at a sort of sunset um we were having some drinks it was like very stunning um environment there were people playing music it was um very stunning getting hot in here um it was very beautiful um sort of cinematic environment amorous environment

yeah and i was like it was an amorous exchange it was well it should have been it was very nice this is so stunning um as an environment and what the guy decided to come up with in that moment there was a katie perry song playing and he said oh i think i used to think katie perry was just so hot and that in itself is not the worst thing in the world okay katie perry's hot totally agree with you but then he made it worse did he didn't he didn't he say but i don't think she's hot anymore yeah even worse what now she's had a kid so it's like okay so you're gonna make me jealous and annoyed and then you're gonna be a misogynist and also it's just like i can't what now she's aged and like exactly yeah now she's aged and had a kid and she's not a california girl anymore anyway now she's not got cream pies on her boobs

exactly it's as if that makes me feel better thanks exactly um but that is not an annoying statement necessarily to me like oh i oh, I find Katy Perry hot. But it was more the environment. It's not shocking news. No, no, that's fine. Also, yes. Everyone does. We all love Katy Perry.

It was the environment in that we were having two different experiences that I was like, well, that is not appropriate for this setting. Right now, you should be maybe saying that I look good, that this is nice. Yes, that would be nice. You maybe should be saying something about me. Why? Because you katie perry are you talking about katie perry feels fucking basic no it feels i also think well i think that's kind of my crux as well and something that i would like to make clear and i don't know if many people maybe some people would be like oh shut up you're so annoying and i'm sure maybe maybe often but i'm sure someone out there is gonna fucking agree with me i know

sephia you probably will there's a good chance there's a good chance here if so if i'm with someone and i feel as though they are making me aware of people that they are attracted to yeah hell hell hell in a way that hellscape doesn't sit right with me doesn't make me feel even just like respected as someone that they want to spend time why am i on the peripheries of your attention right now when i'm on a friendship with you level i think it's really can i say something really sad yeah i don't know why i'm saying such childhood things but when i there was one time that my my nan my nan nan who i oh i don't know if i want to say yeah no i'll say that so my nan who i love so much my gorgeous nan um used to look after me all the time we share a bed

like we she lived with us like it was she's my queen and castle and she went on holiday with her sister r.i.p auntie maureen auntie maureen and someone else came to stay with us coincidentally at the same time someone else in my family okay and i would always say i was so young guys so forgive me i was probably like six years old and my parents hated me from that parents evening so i'm really going through it so give me a break um someone else in my family is staying with us and i kept being like oh when's my nan coming home when's my nan coming home kind of um you know there's not necessarily an insin yeah it's normal for a child not an insinuation there but i think as the other person in the family that you could infer that i am saying i'd rather

my nan be here which is true saying that i are saying that. I'm totally saying that. Oh, of course it's fine. But translated into my modern day, if I was with you all the time and I kept saying, oh, I just like wish I was with my other friend X, Y and Z. I would literally say go get literally fucked and go and hang out with them. I'm saying, right? So it's not just in a romantic thing of oh i think katie perry's hot no i think x finds it it's like what are you really saying here and why and if it's

happening at a rate that i think is too much i'm gonna have to let you know because i don't think these are the kind of conversations we need to be having like it feels a little bit immature it feels a little bit like you're trying to say something else it feels a little bit like well it looks like you know you noticed the guy looking at me so now you're trying to make me jealous about something else no no you blah blah do you know what i mean there's a lot going on under the surface here and i just want to bring it right back up and say kate perry is not gonna shag you mate i might if you change your fucking tune let's not fucking talk to each other like that i think it's fucking weird well the thing is i think it's like look we can talk about that if you're also making me feel like you want to hang out

with me but the fact that we're right now it's like yeah that would be a nice conversation someone finding katie perry hot is not news i i would assume that everyone would think yeah california girls she's looking great she's fucking hot blue hair wow it goes i think the crux is it goes without saying and i think if you're saying these things my question would be for why well i think it's like you can have that conversation but say we were having that at lunch that conversation at lunch yeah okay that's interesting we can talk about it i think it was the fact that it's like in a absurdly picturesque environment it's almost like suggestive conversation that's not it's also that's not my script for this moment i'm so sorry but what you were saying about um even with friends sort of

doing that i was thinking about like how i even think it goes down to the level of like if someone is not present there like if someone i think i'm a bit weird about this but if someone is texting someone else so i'm hanging out with you and if you're constantly texting your other friend like you know when someone just cannot put their phone down they're in another conversation basically that you're literally not with me and there's totally so much room for texting someone else when you're with someone that i'm so sorry i just need to quickly blah blah blah or just even you're sending the odd message that's a completely normal thing but i really think i find it i feel i think i feel rejected sometimes actually when you're with

someone and they are completely in another conversation with someone it's so fair it's so horrible and i actually do i do that to you never you've never done that to me ever in your life like and i don't mean um sending messages we all do have to do that that's of course yeah that's like thing yeah it's iconic it is iconic yeah we're just doing that admin i believe if i believe in anything in this life i believe in conversation yeah but also if i believe in anything in this life i believe in being present and having a conversation with the person that you are actually with being where you are would be nice and sometimes i think we've normalized like um sort of just like being with your friends

but you're all talking to people separately i just feel like what are we doing sometimes yeah and it goes back to kind of you having the um amorous exchange with that guy and he's not reading that do you get what i'm saying that amorous exchange and i don't know there's a reference i know what amorous exchange means but is there a deeper reference yeah it's the sims for um like conversation tabs like you know when it's like you're having a suggestive conversation or like flirty exchange amorous we weren't having an amorous exchange we were having an awkward he didn't read the awkward moment yeah he didn't he missed the brief and i think someone also that there's a bit extra to that but i'll say that after sorry oh no go on say it now

no no because it's just like a bit of a thing well i just think anyone not making you feel valued in that moment it you are justified in being upset and i think there is like an energy that comes with that of like um or just kind of the expectation or like the social narrative around almost like you have in order to um keep this relationship going you have to let a lot of things slide yeah which is that is just not nice that's just not a nice place to be not your duty you don't need to let things slide no no and kind of the insinuation of like well you should be so lucky that he's even here so or like if you push him any further he'll get annoyed or like oh you can't have that conversation now because it will go wrong or do you know what i mean like you have to be super super chill don't bring it up otherwise you'll scare him off you'll lose him blah blah blah what the fuck's that about i think that's

the kind of i think that's a really normalized etiquette that people follow well i think women are supposed to bury things totally bury and pretend like you are happy with the bare minimum yeah but maybe you're not and you should definitely be validated in feeling like you're allowed to say hey that didn't make me feel good or like hey just from now on shut your fucking mouth like katie fucking perry what are you a fucking little monster or what are you a fucking kitty perry like what are her fans called what are katie perry's fans called i don't know but do you know what i mean it's like shut the fuck up every once in a while otherwise i'm walking sorry and you know what happened famously i walked famously she walked what was the other

thing you were gonna say well the other thing i then just sort of decided maybe i don't want to say it oh but i want to know but we'll try it on for size okay um because i didn't really express myself in that moment because i think i was just absolutely it's hard i mean i'm saying it like it's easy by the way just don't ever listen to me guys no no do we know we're on about you should be validated and feeling how you feel it's like as if i'm ever gonna say how i feel i think i did by the way just don't ever listen to me guys no no do we know we're on about you should be validated in feeling how you feel it's like as if i'm ever gonna say how i feel i think i did but because i had been famously as we're just talking about burying burying burying a few things that annoyed me that was the one that then i kind of snapped at and i did my class the classic jealous

um i put the shame on top of it and i just snapped at this guy and i said you haven't kissed me all day you know and it's like that's really weird oh no i think it's normal weird and he was really taken aback he was like have i not oh no i shouldn't do the accent should i not he said i think that's fair i don't want to give it away um and it was the game the cat's out of the bag but um yeah it was just um because i didn't express myself the first thing that annoyed me yeah you end up um it will come out snap she'll find a way katie perry yeah yeah which is fair we've all done it oh it's so fair enough i mean but it's just sort of done it life would be a bit easier and before you know it you've written bad blood

oh goodness me and i think give yourself a break like especially as well like for example in that situation that you're describing with that one person in particular you were at a precarious point in your relationship like it's there's nothing necessarily concrete going on um there's not like a clean label to go back on to like fall onto so i just think when you feel like things are up in the air and you feel like you don't know where you stand it's probably because you don't know where you stand and it's probably because things are up in the air or if you feel like you're not being treated the way you want to be treated it's probably because you're not being treated the way you want to be treated and you're

in your rights to like make that right and however you see fit so talk to them about it just put put it on ice go and find somebody else just take some time with yourself to make yourself feel good like i think allowing yourself to feel um underappreciated is actually really hard yeah because i think you are kind of bred to feel like you need to accept the bare minimum um it can be a cheap date and it's like but i mean i wouldn't mind i mean that's not great but i think that's i definitely feel why am i talking about my childhood sorry i've been ill for a few days i haven't been out for a week and then all of a sudden it's like oh my last experience was when i was eight like i feel like i have no current um points of reference anymore apart from my childhood but i definitely feel like as a kid there was like just an emphasis of like oh you just get on with it don't you like oh you just

take it all on your shoulders oh nothing bothers you oh you just blah blah blah you've read me so wrong everything bothers well it bred yeah no exactly like it it's like at the end of the day i'm a human being so if you think i'm not being bothered by something it's not because i'm not being bothered it's because i'm not showing you that I'm bothered and as an eight-year-old and as you my parent that is really a shame yeah that's where we're at that is pretty alarm bells hey yeah um and I think you might be really good at appearing like you're not bothered but that doesn't mean that you are unbothered and it's okay to be bothered in this life yeah and it's a really good thing to care and it might

not feel like it at the time but it's a really good thing to like be hurt by things and be affected by things it is part of life genuinely part of the human experience it is and as i keep saying it's like if you get to the end of this life without being like oh i was never hurt i think that's you haven't lived like you literally you didn't live you haven't wasn't alive and then and you might um have hurt quite a lot of people in the process because i mean it's not sounding healthy to me well it's kind of what we were saying at the beginning about that person saying you know i just don't get jealous i mean if you if you but if you really don't get jealous then there's a depth to that emotion that you have never experienced and so in turn you okay so you

can't relate to sephian wing that's a shame like you're missing out do you know what i mean like i think in the hardship they absolutely can okay but if they can't acknowledge to themselves that they sure but if you are someone who is going through life not being hurt then you are also not being able to relate to a human experience and that's a shame yeah like you either miss out on yeah i can't bother to finish that i don't know where else i think it speaks for itself it's the perfect point okay perfect you're trying to shut me up let's go no not at all well just if you didn't want to go into i thought you've said you've said it you know when you start speaking and then you think what am i doing i know it often but i'm not the problem is doing it on a podcast it's like oh jesus i can't even remember what it was it was a load of shit anyway no um

god guys you're feeling jealous hey that's a shame hope you're all right i don't think it's a shame i think let's take the shame out of it take the shame out so true why don't we all just have a cuddle instead let's just all acknowledge let's actually let's undo for example if there's someone out here being like i just don't feel jealousy i just don't get jealous it's like let's just all acknowledge we all do we all do we all do sure in different capacities but we all do ultimately not embarrassed about it well no i've spoken about it for a half an hour on a public podcast so if i was embarrassed i should have shut my mouth yeah so embarrassing i've fucking mortified myself yeah i'm not embarrassed no it's normal it's human and all of that stuff that we just said all of that stuff all right

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