Goes Without Saying - internalised misogyny: i'm not like other girls

Episode Date: June 29, 2020

we're diving headfirst into pick me culture and exploring internalised misogyny in this episode of Goes Without Saying! join us (sephy & wing) as we discuss how the patriarchy has shaped our self-perceptions and aligned femininity with weakness. we hate to see it. speak your mind on our instagram! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello guys, this is High Priestess, I'm Erin, this is my voice, and you are? And I'm Persephone, and this is my voice. This is my actual voice box. Gorgeous! And today we're going to be using our gorgeous voice boxes to discuss... Internalised misogyny. Nice, let's get into it. We asked you some questions on the poll, on the story. Shall I dive in? Go on, dive right in Erin. Well there were some things that I wanted to call out as usual. So we found some discrepancies within your answers but let's just hear them from the top first of all

so we're all on the same page. First of all, shall we describe what internalised misogyny is? Absolutely, take it away. If you don't know what internalised misogyny is, it's basically a patriarchal kind of system that's at work within our society that kind of privileges masculine traits over feminine traits and kind of assumes that men are more intelligent, men are funnier, men are just superior in every way and anything aligned with femininity is kind of stupid. If misogyny is the belief that men are superior, internalised misogyny is when you've internalised that belief and taken it on for yourself, even though you are yourself an inferior little girl. Here we go. So I asked, growing up, you were more girly or more of a tomboy? And actually, it was a relatively even split, bit of a Brexit situation. Nice. I mean mean not nice yeah quite

awful like rock bottom hundreds of you said you were girly slightly more of you said you were a tomboy growing up what did you say tomboy I said tomboy what did you say same definitely more of a tomboy although I definitely had phases yeah I think I was a tomboy basically until I hit puberty. And then I was kind of like, what's going on here? Like, what's all this? Yeah, completely. Do you have biases towards femininity? And then I put, i.e. you immediately assume a pretty woman to be dumb or sexualized, etc.

Even if you later immediately correct yourself, do you have or have you had those biases? Surely 100% of the world everyone well not quite it was it was almost well it's 56 percent of you said yes it's interesting that one because the question isn't are you sexist like are you sexist i can understand you saying no but the question is essentially do you have internalized misogyny and the answer for everyone is yes if you've been raised under patriarchy which we all have you do have these things from the characters you watch on tv to your friends to how you interact with any anyone definitely well here's where i found the discrepancy i'll get into it so then the next question was are you treated differently depending on if you present yourself to align with

femininity 91 of people said yes there we go okay there we go is your self-esteem stronger in moments where you're aligning with patriarchal beauty standards 75 said yes have you ever identified as not like other girls nearly 80 of them said yes so 80 of you have said i'm not like other girls and yet you don't have biases towards femininity do you not so why don't you want to be feminine why don't you want to be seen as one of the feminine people why is that seen as a bad thing to do because life is just easier life is just so much easier if you present in the way that you're supposed to present people are fucking insane liars stop lying on our pulse well then they came in with their stories absolutely thick and fast with some of the most hilarious things I've ever read, some of the most horrific things I've ever read. And we're going to read some of our favourites because we can't go through them all. There's

no way. And it's getting to the point now, it's really nice, but it's getting to the point we cannot. We just can't get through them all. So we're going to just pick our faves or some of our faves. Some of our faves. Yeah. Okay. So you were a tomboy growing up and you got to puberty and things shifted can you explain as in you were a tomboy as a kid like you liked harry potter and like using a stick to as a wand to like run around and say expelliarmus yeah and then you go through puberty and you want the boys to fancy you and you slip into femininity yeah patriarchal standards yeah femininity. Well, I think it does just reach that age.

Basically, as soon as your boobs start growing, it's like, okay, let's just place her in that camp now. So let's just put her there and then she can be sexualised and she can be, she can stop playing football or whatever she does. I remember I was on the football team when I was like in like year four. I was the, there were two girls

and I was so bad, like horrifically bad. But then it's like, it's funny that in secondary school as soon as you're you're seen as like a woman that would be like unspeakable for like a feminine girl to be in the boys team football team i definitely think i mean it's just obvious as a child everything's a lot more free at least in your mind even if not in the minds of your parents who are teachers or the adults who are supervising you or just experiencing your childhood. Definitely as a child, you feel more. And also as a child in the early 2000s,

I reckon we did feel quite free to engage in whatever because there was definitely a tone of, just in the early 2000s in the UK, it was very much like everything for the taking. For kids like us, it was just everything's up for whatever like not a big deal like kind of there's two girls kissing on top of the pops everything's multicultural do you think though i definitely didn't didn't feel that well that's the thing i think even though the even though it goes without saying even though there are issues and still are like beyond issues today and very much

were in the late 90s and early 2000s i think there was this pseudo the zeitgeist of the early 2000s was very much like look what we've done like we've broken through we're on the other side of the millennium like there's a tonal shift in the uk where you've come out of the Spice Girls and you're into not only a new decade, a new time. But you've come out of the Spice Girls into being more oppressed than ever. Yes, but it's almost Marxist. It's almost false class consciousness.

It's almost... Yeah, well, that's the thing. It is. It's everyone thinks they're free, but they're more enslaved than ever. Why do you think they were more enslaved after the Spice Girls than before? Or you just think they're just as? I'm not saying that it was as a result of the spice girls but i'm saying that in the early 2000s kind of that era of time it was

very much if i think about like femininity in that time if you think about femininity in the early 2000s or even like late 2000s i'm thinking of like the kind of real like x factor like kind of heavy heavy diet um sort of celebrity culture things were definitely different coming into that there's definitely a there's definitely a shift from where you see in the late 80s and throughout the 90s this kind of heroine chic vibe kate moss is everywhere but i would say that continues it definitely does but it moves then you see for example jerry halliwell in a huge union jack in a tiny little skimpy thing with big boobs and they're all thin but it's a different vibe and you're moving away from the supermodel era of the 90s and into a kind of everyday woman which

actually i think leads into the girl next door vibe yeah every film has this gorgeous kind of beachy waved white girl who is kind of super laid back and she goes to work on her bicycle and kind of writes in her journal and so and she's quote unquote not like other girls and she's not like other girls and she's relatable and personable and so there's been a shift in that she doesn't look like Kate Moss anymore but that doesn't necessarily mean that she's attainable and yet she's presented as attainable in the most classic way she's presented as kind of your everyday gal but I feel like she does look like Kate Moss she looks exactly the same she's just presented as um kind of like oh I love a girl with an appetite but still looks looks exactly like Kate Moss. Yeah, she's got a big cheeseburger in her hands.

But the Kate Moss was very extreme. From the look that we have now that's kind of idealised as in the Kardashians thick thighs look and the 90s completely different. But I think that has only just come in so recently. If you think that thigh gap doesn't feel that long ago. recently if you think that thigh gap doesn't feel that long ago definitely but i think i think that's undermining how dramatic the late 80s and 90s were in the sense that there was no room for body fat on a woman's body in the media i still don't think there's much well there's not much but it's a different as you say now it's a different shape it you say, now it's a different shape. It's the Kardashian hourglass shape taken from a black woman. Yeah.

And previous to that, in the early 2000s, you're kind of seeing Megan Fox. You're seeing what is presented as a more womanly or more feminine shape. And I'm not saying that it's getting better in any way. I'm saying the representation is different. I'm saying the representation is different. And it's and it's in the way that the 90s women were a symbol of manipulation towards women in a certain way. That manipulation is definitely still evident in the early 2000s, but it's totally different. It's kind of big sunglasses and wags and the kind of new era, a low rise skinny jean. Yeah, the aesthetic is different. It's a different different vibe but it's still just like straight up oppression well completely but it's a different vibe because you can buy it

on the high street your mate it's everything's changing the consumerism is made for people on the streets so people are being targeted in a different way. Slowly, reality TV starts coming in. We start the, what was once kind of the heralded queens of like, of mass media, i.e. Kate Moss going back to. You slip into Spice Girls. Then you slip into Top of the Pops. And then you get to X Factor, where a kid that you went to school with is now at bootcamp.

So then things start to shift. And then now with social media, fucking hell. Well, then it opens up for the Kylie Jenners. No matter where you are within the Western world, I guess no matter when you are in the Western world, you're always being indoctrinated into some form of like patriarchal culture. Or like the ideal, even though the ideal changes, the fact that is an ideal of

femininity is oppressive like the fact that now it might align more with like a more attainable body as in being able to have some fat on your body it still doesn't make that any less oppressive i feel the fact that there is an ideal completely yeah there's a standard i mean now i think more than ever women are told to look a certain way. I think now more than ever, every girl wants the same look. People want the same nose, the same mouth, the same eyebrows. Whereas even in the early 2000s, everyone had skinny brows. But your face could kind of look whichever way.

And as long as your bum was small and your belly was small your body could look whichever whatever which way you know what I mean I think now with social media obviously it's just crazier well everything's heightened because it this the idea of celebrity has changed and that is to kind of equalize that now anyone can be a celebrity like if you have a phone you can be famous whereas it used to be Simon Cowell needs to pick you and then you can be famous definitely and you can't avoid seeing it yeah exactly you don't pick up a magazine anymore you pick up the same thing that you use to text your friends phone your mom like everything and you're on it from the start of your day until the very last second until those eyes close yeah until those eyes close at night

yeah yeah yeah and you're just looking out at these just these people that all look exactly the same abundance of people who don't look like you and to be honest don't look like themselves either and then you want to say vote in a poll saying i don't have internalized misogyny it's like well what are your thoughts on these girls well because also those same girls that you're looking at you're not scrolling through thinking oh they're so smart even though they're making business moves in their emails even though they've been budgeting to afford that boob job right like no one is um there's a real disconnect with reality in so many ways so do you think for you in terms of you that you have been we we spoke about a bit about this in the last episode that your teacher thought you were stupid

because you're pretty have you felt can you see that in your own life like this idea of femininity being aligned with stupidity can you see that in your people thinking that of me or just in your in your scope of life both just in your life like femininity being aligned with stupidity a desire to like align yourself with masculinity a desire to be like affirmed by like oh boys like what i'm doing so that makes it better something that i love so much and i know you love it too is the monologue from gone girl i was gonna speak i wrote about this in my dissertation i love it that much yeah it's so gorgeous if you don't have the book to hand pause this and go onto youtube and type in gone girl cool girl i memorized two lines for this podcast it's so gorgeous two of the lines are select two she i actually may have got this wrong but it's literally like the two lines that i loved

so much that i quoted my dissertation were it's like i'm expected to chug beer whilst watching adam sandler movies and i'm also expected to eat burgers all night with the guys and remind and remain a size two yeah it's like yeah okay can you not see the hypocrisy in this i love a girl that can eat her fucking food but also she must remain looking like she doesn't eat and eat a bite like she must stay small yeah or like she's got to sit there and watch fucking shit adam sandler movies and laugh at shit male humor to humor your ego and that's what i think changed in the turn of the 2000s that's interesting that you're placing it there like i wouldn't really there is a huge tonal shift

but i don't know if i would like place it on the turn of the century I think it comes in that early definitely because there's a real ship women I think become aware of the supermodel era has gone on for long enough so that that has become established in its own right and beyond that the women are becoming aware of it so if something goes on long enough people become aware that it's happening hopefully and that definitely happened in the late 90s people became aware that supermodels and the supermodel was not attainable for the everyday woman and so in order to further capitalize in a way that they previously couldn't you can make that your brand by being like I'm just crazy. I eat cheeseburgers all day. I've just got hair on my skateboard,

my chocolate milkshakes. Like it's a crazy life. But there were definitely movies like this in the 90s. Like Jane Austen has characters that are like that. But it's not in the same way. It's not, what's her name? Jordan Baker. I don't know who that is.

Grey Gatsby. Is that her name? Jordan Baker. Who's the woman with the, she's the one that is. Great Gatsby. Is that her name? Jordan Baker. Who's the woman with the... She's the one that is with whatever his name is. Daisy Buchanan. No, no. Her friend, her pal.

Oh, I don't know. Because Daisy Buchanan is kind of the classic girl, the beautiful... Yeah, definitely. And then you have... I'm sure her name is Jordan Baker. It probably is. I don't know.

And she's kind of this kind of kooky quirky super hot kind of crazy person and this is a long time ago this is fitzgerald and yeah yeah but like if you think about women that are desirable because they don't waste their time with petty girl drama it's like elizabeth bennett in like pride and prejudice is that character like her whole thing is like just dismissive of yes but she's not heralded by other women she's definitely loved but not in the same way like in the way that the cool girl in the Adam Sandler movies is I completely agree now it's it's different but like this idea has been building for a long long time definitely but I think placing it within the early 2000s means it's consumed by the whole of the western world and so in a way that not everyone is reading classics um and if they are

they're not even they're not necessarily there's no drawing them to that character necessarily but it's kind of they walked so she could run like it's like they completely yes like elizabeth bennett walked she strutted that runway baby or whatever that you always need you almost kind of always need like the antonym of the of the classic girl to show how perfect that classic girl is yeah totally it's almost like well daisy buchanan is so great because you had to have fucking jordan baker her dark hair and her like, does she play tennis or something? I don't fucking know. It is ringing a bell. In the origins of pick me Twitter, if we're going from like Fitzgerald, for example, using kind of opposing women on spectrum, but perfectly get along. They're best friends, but they're so different,

but they're both stunning. They're both really attractive. And men like them both, but one is dangerous and one is perfectly, perfectly. Exactly. Beautiful and safe and desirable. Yeah. And she's also rich. It's like, okay. But exactly.

Yeah. She's perfect in every way. She's everything you'd ever want. She's basically, imagine an angel. That. Just that. Completely. But that moves a lot over a hundred years to get to a point where kids themselves completely yeah for example

are projecting as the Rizzo rather than the Sandy and it's in a way because you're just choosing whatever you think would get you what you want easier or or in a more fun way because really no one picks Rizzo over Sandy because maybe because they like her more it's because I'm gonna get exactly what Sandy gets for being hot and pretty and cool but uh but I kind of I'll get it with more fun I don't have to be a fucking boar it's kind of wolf in sheep's clothing yeah you can be fun yeah well it's just a different it's just another way of getting in and you don't get look at me I'm sandra d so if we talk about like all these figures who do you think is like the epitome of that like now as in like how that

trope has evolved of like the i'm not like other girls because i think it's like a zoe de chanel vibe i've been watching new girl recently but it's on netflix and she kind of just absolutely to me just reeks of that like pick me i'm not like other girls i'm quirky like i do like sewing but i live in a loft with three guys four guys sometimes and i'm the only girl i'm a bit crazy but they all fancy me like i've got my long hair that kind of vibe but i was also thinking because i think i have a bit of i'm not like other girls or i definitely had a bit of a whilst i was maybe at school i think everyone does still have it now totally i think and i was trying to place where i came from i was like i think a big not a big influence but something that i probably heard and

was like that's fucking cool was demi lovato la la land who says i can't wear my converse with my dress i'm not like other girls yeah it's like who said i'm not one of those girls that wears heels like i wear my converse to the fucking grammmys I don't know what she's going to yeah to the Nickelodeon choice awards yeah completely I think that it's that kind of not like other girls but this is what I mean by like Elizabeth Bennet walked so she could run it's like I just marched through fucking woodlands to get to the place and it's like also I wear my converse to the Nickelodeon choice awards yeah the same thing yeah i'm so scrappy and scruffy but you still want to fuck me yeah but i'm still thin i will go and get go and get a mcdonald's and i eat like some fries but i'm

still stick thin and i still look great definitely you know who i immediately thought of and who i think is the classic example and i actually think's really interesting most case study of this was what we all did to jennifer lawrence oh my god yes completely she's falling at the oscars she's wacky she's crazy she's drunk she's like get me the pizza she's having a whale of a times yeah where is the pizza she's she's the cool girl yeah and yet now it's not cool to like Jennifer Lawrence because so what is it? You can only be not like other girls for so long. There's a timeout.

There's a buffer zone. You only get kind of five years. And I wonder if, I mean, if you don't know, Jennifer Lawrence is a successful actress. You may have heard this small indie film. It's called The Hunger Games, I believe. She's an actress and she really had a strong persona of being i mean she was a young girl in her early 20s reached quite crazy success at that young age winning an oscar at like 23 i think yeah she's picking up her oscar

she falls over on the stage it's that kind of vibe she's making jokes in every interview jimmy kimmel's falling in love with her everyone's obsessed she's a personable gal everyone's in love because it's she's her whole brand was i'm clumsy relatable like everyday girl but you're not you're absolutely beautiful you look like a model complete well she was a model literally was a model before she was an actress and so i wonder then even if it's not just um a la taylor swift american whatever it's called americana americana where she's saying about how women only have x amount of time before everyone gets sick of them yeah and they become overexposed and you have no room

to do anything because everybody hates you just because you claimed your space as a woman i wonder how much of it comes from that with jennifer lawrence in the sense it's like okay we're sick of you now you're not new and exciting there's another hot girl we can find that can make just as good jokes so move on please we're over you and then also i wonder if it's the i'm not like other girls thing got old for people. Because people were angry. I think they're linked. Like, I think that's a really interesting bit from that documentary.

So if you haven't seen it, it's on Netflix. Taylor Swift's documentary, Miss Americana. Really interesting themes in that whole documentary of like femininity and success and the whole girl boss. And kind of this idea of being a good girl. Like being good. Like as a thing that women strive for. Just being like, you being a good girl like being good like as as a thing that women strive for just being like you're a good girl you're a good person why do we strive to be that men don't have that pressure to be like virtuous it is interesting even if you don't like her you should watch someone that she i don't know if she discusses her but someone that came to mind for me when i was watching that bit where she says women have to reinvent themselves way more

than men would be katie perry yeah as someone that I mean I don't know what she's doing now she's having a baby with Orlando Bloom is she yeah oh my god I'm so happy for her I didn't know I didn't get the memo yeah oh my god yeah she's still releasing music but again who's listening and who do you think that's because of yeah she definitely came up with the like i kissed a girl kind of i'm not like other girls vibe her first album was one of the boys there we go was called one of the boys and it had a great song on it called one of the boys in which she said she wouldn't shave her legs and shit like that and then she came in to school after summer looking super hot and all of the boys fancied her but they were so confused because she was just one of the boys there we go like it's literally that but i definitely feel like she's had to

reinvent herself like countless amount of times and it's one where it's like some work some didn't like the california california girls vibe work so iconic but then she kind of had to reinvent herself again and again and again it's like okay we don't all like lady gaga it's like you had to reinvent yourself there well every female artist has to come in with a new era and now we label it lady gaga had to come in with the stripped back like joanne vibe it's like yeah okay because we'd seen it all before rihanna every single album beyonce everybody every single album every single phase they have to shed i think taylor says a new side of themselves which is exciting and attractive but not too attractive because it still has to be attainable and men still have to like it men still have to give it a tick or it will never be successful but I think that's a really interesting one of thinking

about internalized misogyny and like um I'm not like other girls thing because it's like why do why do women have to go through all these changes even kind of Harry Styles no Harry Styles can always look like harry harry styles can always sound like harry he's evolved more than anyone well he's evolved from one direction but no one's saying new era give us a new vibe give us a new look give us a new taste give us a new sound i think that's because i'm on harry styles tiktok that i kind of i think harry styles is evolving yes but there's a difference between what we do to women in that they're not just supposed to evolve,

they're supposed to shapeshift and become bigger and larger than life in every single instance versus Harry Styles can just make kind of slightly better music every time. And we absolutely love him. He does come in with new looks. I completely agree.

He does, but he's the same guy. Not to undermine the whole thing about Harry. I mean, we love. Long hair Harry is different. It's funny because I used Harry Styles as an example. When I spoke about Miss Americana on the story, this was ages ago. I put up a story about Miss Americana

or inspired by saying kind of about how women have to reinvent themselves and et cetera, et cetera, and got your guys' thoughts and we were on the same page. And even though Harryry styles is great no one is holding him to the same standard of like well you have to speak out about this marginalized group yeah absolutely you have to make sure you're doing this but not that charity because they're unethical there's a better one you didn't do your research and that's about the virtuous good thing he doesn't need to see seem virtuous like he

already is doing enough by being good looking he can say treat people with kindness and we think he's an angel and i do i think he's great but it's there's the bar is so low as we say are we saying harry styles is a scrappy dappy do no that's the thing i do think he's kind of the best of a bunch he's the best he's what we've got to work with and i think it's it's good he really is the best of a bad bunch yeah but i don't think obviously men are held to the same standards i think you'd be a fool to say they were like if you're listening to this and going hang on a second like harry styles was attacked once because he did x y and z but was he really and the the only ways I think that Harry Styles hasn't been taken seriously in his industry, or given the credit that the credit was due,

is because the large majority of his fan base is young women. And so that in turn discredits his work. Because young women and the taste of young women isn't valid. Completely. Because it's not desirable to be liked by a bunch of young girls. It's seen as stupid. By a bunch of teenage girls, even though One Direction was essentially

chemically completely orchestrated from the beginning to its very end, I would say, to scientifically induce absolute adoration from young girls. And oh, how they succeeded. So you created this to happen. Don't be fucking annoyed and confused

when the girls are screaming at the concert. Who do you think that's because of? Simon. Good old Simon Cowell. He knows what he's doing, that guy. And he's not worried about being a good guy. Oh, and I love him. Everyone.

And he's loved. And he's universally loved, kind of. And hated. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet.

Down the bottom of my garden, there's a school. Like my old primary school is attached to the end of my garden. Confusing situation. I feel like if you're in the UK, you'll get that. Yeah, yeah. I'm one of the pals at the bottom of the school field. You might know the ones. That you would run up to and kind of throw sticks at and like. Well, that's what I get all day.

I've been on the phone to Erin before. She's like like why are you with a load of kids it's like no they just hang out there down there kind of a bunch of fairies yeah but yesterday i was sitting down the bottom of my garden and i heard the kids all playing at the bottom of the thing and they were like i'm gonna be simon you're gonna be the old woman what's the old woman name old woman's name oh her name's cheryl and i was like chery Cheryl's seen as an old woman I couldn't believe it how crazy is that Simon and one was like I'm Alicia I'm Alicia but I thought it was hilarious that Simon who is significantly older than Cheryl Cole yeah is seen as Simon and Cheryl Cole is seen as that old woman. I can't remember her name. And some other kid goes, oh, it's Cheryl.

And she goes, yeah, Cheryl. How interesting is that? Cheryl Cole. That's why I think discourse is so damaging because the reason I think largely that children will think Cheryl Cole is an old woman is because she had a baby with another One Direction star, Liam Payne.

Hey guys, this episode is on One Direction. And everyone's like, she's too old for him. She's so gross, blah, blah, blah. And in the way that Cheryl Cole had been attacked in the media in many different ways over the years, I think that was, she really took a brunt at that point because it's a whole, getting attacked by One Direction fans

is a whole nother level. You can have paparazzi outside your door in kind of 2004 and it's troubling when your husband has cheated on you but bloody hell i don't think you know pain liam pain like you do until yeah you've met liam honestly the liam pain when the kids are tweeting you saying you're ugly and old speaking of that that is quite reminiscent of what happened to caroline flack completely she wasn't seen as an well she was an older woman dating harry styles the a member the harry styles himself well he was underage he was underage but how many times has that happened the reverse and the and the man

the man completely gets away with it you know who i think is a another good example of that jeffrey epstein go in just in the sense that i really do think the only person who could get away with what jeffrey epstein did for as long as he did is a white man like jeffrey epstein yeah give it to a woman it's never gonna work give it to a black person it's never gonna work it has to be it has to be, it has to be him. It has to be that you are in a position of unquestionable power. You're rich and you're white and you're a man. Even to get yourself, to Jay Gatsby yourself into that position of power is a white man kind of thing.

It's kind of that YouTuber. Which YouTuber? What's his name? The one who like steal, he like thieves his way into like expensive hotels. Which YouTuber? What's his name? The one who like steal, he like thieves his way into like expensive hotels. I'm not owning his name. No, we're not owning Simon. Oh no, we can, but he's a good guy.

Let's do Ali Law. He's gross. Yeah, but it's the same guy. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm just saying Simon Wilson gets away with, we can say, keep that whole thing, I think. Okay, let's do Simon Wilson. Keep the whole thing, it's funny.

Well, let's explain then. So there's a YouTuber that I really love and my whole family kind of love and now Erin really loves. His name is Simon Wilson. You should go and find him. He basically does quite hilarious things where he'll go, he's like this Welsh kind of bloke, like white bloke.

You've really got a big old smile on your face. I really just love his- Like it's true love do you know what i do i love his work what he does is he does kind of london to monaco on no money like living in london on zero pounds zero zero money and he kind of does loads of i just love to watch it because i love i love to watch a scam go on but he operates with a very specific amount of privilege of being like the nice bloke the nice bloke that goes into like mcdonald's and goes all right mate i oh i ordered a big mac but i

didn't get any fries with it and then oh don't worry here you go and they just give it to him because he operates in this really specific bit of privilege that's really just like allows him to get away with anything by just being a bit of a working class white bloke so you should go and watch simon wilson because he's the best why did i bring him up oh because i was saying white men get away with murder because he's jeffrey epstein honestly and boy do they but just in the sense that a million and one people saw jeffrey epstein who at kind of 50 years old waltzing around with a load of kind of 14 year old girls and no one says anything they kind of go home and say like i think i think this guy that i've seen is like a bit dodgy they're massaging

him but they don't do anything about no one says a word honestly we give a white man the world and they take even more it is well completely you give a white man a world and then get confused when they demand the universe i also think what's really interesting with like i'm not like other girls or like internalized misogyny is in terms of comedy of men being like women just aren't funny a lot of you said that on the story it's interesting isn't it it's like no it's because that industry is monopolized by men and we laugh at a man putting a wig on of a girl and going na na na la la while the girl doing that isn't funny because it's like no why is that funny female comedians get told that they just say vagina all

the time when what are men joking about i would love to know yeah penises so why does it not work for a woman it works only because men find other men funny because men have been laughing in their living rooms with other men at the expense of everybody who doesn't look like them and when women say oh this comedian is funny this female comedian right here she's funny everyone goes oh she's a woman though like she's just that's for women then she's not that's a woman's thing i remember i was telling my my brother about fleabag i was like you'll love fleabag it's really funny oh i can't wait to watch fleabag it's stunning it's so so so good and he was like oh that's like that woman thing though it's for women he's like why is it why is when they're a funny when

there's a funny man it's for everyone when there's a funny woman it's for women what do you mean i think not even just comedy i say that every well a lot of films that jack and i would watch together i would honestly say i would literally say during the film if this was a woman as the lead we wouldn't have come to see this completely because a man's story is just a story. It's universal. A woman's story is only for women. Because being a man is the default experience of the human race. In the same way that in the early 2000s, I think I've said this on the podcast before, I said to my mum, so I would have been like, young, early 2000s, I was said this on the podcast before I said to my mum so I would have been like young early to that I was like between the ages of five and ten I think even ten is too old I was obsessed with Will Smith still am we have the same birthday teehee oh my god Libra King and cute and

I remember talking to my mum about how racism was still a thing and she said to me that for the foreseeable future there will not be a starring role for a black person because they will always choose the white person even if it's a white woman they'll always choose a white person the black there would never be a film where the stars are black because they won't be given that space because they won't be given that space and i said but what about will smith and she said well that's the exception and even though now obviously thank god more and more films are being made and hopefully things are slowly slowly changing hopefully you can be aware of that in the early 2000s white men are everywhere they've pervaded every realm of society from the ground up not only are they the working class they own it

and that doesn't change overnight that doesn't change just by putting will smith in the star because the whole production company is all white the casting director is still white the people writing the script are still white so just because you have a lucky guy will smith oh my god amazing what he's done and true yeah he's i love him but just and it's the same thing of just because you've now got a woman in the staff room, just because a woman is now on your boardroom doesn't mean that your company is not sexist. This is exactly the Taylor Swift thing. In Taylor Swift documentary, she's trying to push, basically, there's a government that's trying to pass like an anti abortion law or something like

that or something incredibly sexist. Yeah, she's fighting against that. And she's saying to her management, I need to fight for this. Like this is really important to her management i need to fight for this like this is really important to me i need to fight for this and it's a load of white men sitting there like kind of in their like big collar shirts like arms folded like no you're not going to speak about this like the sales will go down and it's so funny that she is bringing in all of their money she is the money maker in this thing but yet she her decisions her political actions still have to go through and be signed off by a load of men, load of white men. By a load of white men. And also another thing I found interesting about that was that I believe one of them is her dad.

He very much is coming from the perspective of every day we receive credible death threats against your life. You speak out about something that your largely white audience will disagree with. Are you dead tomorrow is this a threat to your safety and so here we are if taylor swift as a white privileged like rich powerful white woman is having her life threatened potentially going to die for speaking up what does that mean for the everyday woman the everyday marginalized woman the everyday queer woman walking down the street if taylor swift can't speak we're absolutely done for and so how could

we at any point in 2020 still say i don't have internalized misogyny you do because you know what it means to be a woman every womanly move you make puts you at some risk even if it's what you were essentially born to do quote unquote even if it's having a baby you still might lose your job you're still going to get critiqued about your weight it's a weird thing then because you're getting privileged for so for example doing a womanly thing um putting on a dress wearing a dress rather than jeans you get the privileges of wearing a dress but you're also going to get more threatened because you're going to get wolf whistled and oh get your tits out when you walk down the street yeah you're going to get raped

and obviously that comes down to the rapist but not the dress but completely but it's it's it's the same thing though it's like i may get the job that i want because i'm wearing this dress but i also might get attacked by my boss because i'm appearing feminine and he fancies me yeah and then i can't report it and then what i just live yeah with a sexual predator for the next 10 years I have this job and that's how I think we evolve from the classics to 2020 in the sense that over time women will find in a way it's resourceful over time women will find more and more ways to make their lives easier and in some ways that means adopting femininity and in some experiences it means rejecting it and it's

about i think um like hedging your bets as to in what situation you're going to do better yeah in some it might be putting on your dress and keeping quiet and in others it might be going to a fucking football match and drinking beer both equally as valid should we do i feel like we should do some people's questions so going through the questions i just saw a recurring word that keep that keeps coming up and that was basic like people keep telling me i'm basic or i always get aligned with being basic and i think that is such an interesting word it's like are you just calling me stupid oh go on are you saying i'm pretty and therefore i'm stupid i can get you get you i think when people say you're basic it means you look like a stupid girl you look like a girl therefore you're dumb you're a dumb though you look like

the other girls that i've seen therefore you're basic you're not even worth me you're not worth the time of day because i already know that you fit exactly with the other girls that i've seen out and about or you're a gal i've heard that one quite a lot. I was going to say galley. It's like, don't be jealous. Just because you think someone's prettier than you, don't be fucking jealous. Oh, so you think I'm stupid. You think because I straighten my hair

and that I would wear a little tiny little skirt that I'm a stupid person. And I've said it before in episodes, like, okay, well, watch us all run intellectual rings about around you. Well, I'm less valid than you. Watch me talk about Marxism. So someone Well, I'm less valid than you. Watch me talk about Marxism. So someone who looks good is less valid.

Interesting. The internalised misogyny jumps out. Jumping. Here we go. Jumping out of the misogyny pond. So how would you feel if I said to you, you're really basic? Imagine I said that to you,

fucking hell, cancel me. Well, it is because I've got internalised misogyny. It goes, why do you think I'm basic? Like, basic like what does that mean well even you and I have had conversations about now I maybe I'm exposing you here I don't know I love to be exposed especially on this podcast where else am I going to be exposed love it but now I think you're on the other side of it yeah exactly where else no place better no place like home definitely even with hire I remember being like it just can't be a girly thing this can't be girly and now I'm like right I'm gonna chuck some pink on it and see how you feel about that well I also I this is what's funny about it pink is essentially my favorite

color like purple and pink are my favorite colors but I definitely have a bit of a like oh don't don't wear pink like oh my god don't wear pink I saw someone literally said that let me read it yeah we've had quite a lot about pink pink is a stunning color but for some reason we're all scared of it an irrational fear of pink because I feel like it made me look weak and I can relate completely can you relate to that as in if I if you were gonna wear a big pink dress with pink shoes and a pink bag it's like okay I look like I'm in that film what's it called Legally Blonde I think I have a quite a niche experience and I think it just comes from it's just never been my worry I think because early on I because I fit in with exactly what people would want a girl to look like I have also I can slip into being a tomboy at five years old in the same way that I can be super girly and just never be worried I in a way but I think that's really unique I think it

is really unique because also I think but it's unique because similarly I can slip into being any masculinity or femininity but it's just I still would have reservations about aligning myself so closely with femininity I think I have I think my confidence in I think I have reservations about aligning myself so closely with femininity. I think I have, I think my confidence in, I think I have a confidence in being girly that I've had since, literally since I can remember, since being really, really young, like early 2000s, because I was watching Bend It Like Beckham. Stunning. And Harry Potter. So stunning.

And also I could be really girly. Like I and i think also i i felt the power in exploiting femininity and capitalizing on a look from a young age because probably also because i had the security of knowing that my parents were going to be told i was the smartest in the room and so it was a i'm it's a privileged position It was a luxury and there was just no fear. Because as I've said to you before, the only thing I love more than proving myself right is proving others wrong. And it's like, oh, if you thought I was dumb,

joke's on you. Like, sorry, I'm not. Like, oops. Like, no, like I'm in pink and I'm smart. I've never, I think I just have never ever worried about being girly if I wanted to be girly that day I just would enjoy it I I actually think it's one thing I'm so confident in is my femininity and simultaneously the ways that I'm a tomboy well I would agree like I completely agree that intelligence has never been questioned for me but

I think recently my intelligence has been not called into question but as in you're not living up to how intelligent we know you are because you appear more feminine yeah you've essentially been told you're too pretty these days I didn't see you doing this you're too pretty these days I thought you were going to be like writing I thought you were going to be like writing, I thought you were going to be doing something super bureaucratic. Kind of just locked in a room, kind of writing. With a load of papers. Yeah. It's really difficult also because there are contexts that,

so I'm just going to fill the whole context here. Not the whole context, some of the context, the appropriate context I can fill. Throughout my life, there's been an expectation because I've been kind of in the top set and kind of more aligned with traditional masculinity as in we said this in the last episode as in like very strict with my opinions and potentially are not like other girls kind of vibe that either has been pushed onto me or that I have put out into the world and I think very

recently especially or within the last like few months I'd'd say six months, there's been a kind of energy around me that's like people being sort of like, so when did you become so basic? When did you become this? Especially with the with us doing higher, which focuses on like female issues. There's an energy of like, we thought you'd be doing something different. It's like, wait, no, you thought I'd be doing something masculine. That's what you mean? you thought i'd be quiet is what you thought you thought i'd be quiet you thought i'd be doing a kind of masculine old job you wanted me in a theater you wanted me doing some kind of writing thing i fucking love that shit but i at the moment i'm focusing on women's issues and people have an issue people have an issue with it yeah they do and you know why internalized misogyny but i think it's because it aligns itself not only with femininity but we run

a very aesthetic stunning page run by two stunning gals and people have an issue with it because it's like but we didn't see this for you and it's almost like oh look what do you want me to do what do you want me to do you want me to hide in a cave also it's like listen i'm not gonna hold your hand while you figure out your own internalized misogyny i'm not gonna hold your hand while you figure out your own issues with the patriarchy and how you've let a societal construct dictate what you do and what you think is valid for a woman that sounds like you problem this really has nothing to do with me and how amazing i am and the ways that i can exploit and capitalize and

slip into whatever the fuck i want you should keep your fucking mouth shut well it's definitely something that we've faced for a long time with hire and i've definitely been saying to you people have an issue because they hate femininity that's where the majority of people's issues lie my relationship with my own femininity is not like uh i don't feel oppressed in it so then when it's like okay so i'm wearing a dress or i'm wearing i've got my hair straight and is not like a I don't feel oppressed in it so then when it's like okay so I'm wearing a dress or I'm wearing I've got my hair straight and I've got a load of fucking mascara on people are like oh my god but you're stupid now we didn't get the memo it's like no you just didn't get the big memo I have been so shocked in the past like three years I think past few years of my life in my early 20s of how far everyone was

from my understanding as like a kid I just had no idea that people hated women that much in my naivety I really thought yeah we were a little bit further along I think I definitely had that shock when I came back out of uni because when I went to uni I knew the world was sexist I'd been amongst I'd been amongst sexist people in my life went to uni did all my learning and then came back out and realised not everyone did that learning as in not everyone was doing that like everyone else was getting on with other stuff like fair completely fair but I was like oh god I thought yeah but I thought that was a global shift well even back in secondary school oh oops I thought everyone was having those conversations they weren't I think something else that I think is really interesting in that specific one that I

read out about how an irrational fear of pink because I feel like it will make me look weak I think the tie of femininity and weakness is something you can shed a lot of light on more relatable than anything you could have possibly written so thank you for every single person that wrote that like it's so fucking difficult as a woman that identifies as like a strong fucking person but then your body's like a weak up thing like it's funny when you identify in your mind as so fucking strong, and then you step out into the world and you're being told by everyone, you're physically oppressed. Like you get people shout at you, you're right, babe, on the street and things like that. It's like, okay, so I mean,

that's it. I think I definitely have a preoccupation with weakness. So that's why I think a lot of people are similar to you. And in the way that we attribute weakness immediately to femininity means that anything you see as feminine becomes bad. And so of course we all don't want to be feminine. I'm not saying so black and white, we don't want to be feminine, but you guys get what I mean. That there is an internalised patriarchal sense

of rejecting femininity. I'm not a feminist. I'm not like one of those feminists obviously i just think people should be equal i'm not femme i'm not like a feminist or anything don't worry fuck off i can't bear that is this 2011 fuck off like don't worry oh my god i'm not one of those crazy feminists that thinks we're shut your fucking dumb mouth and leave leave this space i also think i just want to pick up something you said like literally probably 10 minutes ago but you mentioned bend it like beckham which I think is the perfect example of a film that is about women that express societally masculine traits but it's not in a not like other girls way because

it's written and directed by a woman it's like it's not this like you know the trip like a manic pixie dream girl exactly which is the zoe de chey Deschanel kind of eternal sunshine of a spotless mind. Yeah, we haven't even touched on that. Fuck. That vibe. I mean, that's a whole thing in itself. Maybe we could do a whole other episode on that. I would love to do an episode on manic pixie dream girls.

It's like a film, filmic trope, I'd say, of kind of the girl that's written by a man, has no desires or interest in her own and is just like, has kind of pink hair. There's a million and one, exactly, yeah. A million and one memes of this. She's quite disturbed and like, but she's just... She was beautiful, but she didn't know it yet. She just wants to be loved by you, the only man that would ever love her.

The unattractive, overweight, early 30s, unsuccessful, living at home man in her life. Yeah, she's pretty, but she doesn't know it that kind of thing exactly it's that and she kind of wears she's zoe de chanel she was beautiful in an unconventional way yeah literally shut the fuck up she wouldn't listen to rock music she doesn't like pop music like what's going on here she has a skateboard oh she ran around in her underwear and a big baggy t-shirt with her headphones blasting music she rolled she has like rollerblades as well like she like rollerblades around town yeah she's she's got no friends she has no interests because she sounds like a fucking

cunt who would want to be friends with that also she doesn't exist she's a male fucking figment of the male fucking ego and imagination also when they think they're doing women a favor yeah they think oh wow okay i think they're doing a good thing they think they're being representative by talking about women in that way yeah they think they're doing women a favor totally and i think there's a bit of all of us that kind of wants to be that man who picks you dream girl like oh i want to be that mysterious girl with five colors in her hair i'm just rollerblade around town man fuck off oh my god totally just be happy with who you are god you're gonna live in misery it's so you're actually gonna live in misery fuck like i'm worried for you it's so fucking true like you really are there's a really good film

that's about this i can't remember what the film is but it's it's i think it's written by zoe kazan if you know her what the fuck is the name of the film let me just find it um and it's got her husband in zoe kazan film and paul dano now keyboard ruby sparks that's what it's called and it's about a man that writes he's he's a writer it's kind of a satirical film it's written by zoe kazan it's called ruby sparks and it's really funny this man is like a writer he's like goes to his therapist every day he's in his head he writes this female character and she comes to life but it's like she's like this kind of kooky girl but then she develops from being alive develops her own like autonomy and like leaves her amazing it's really good but I think you speaking about bend it like Beckham is just shows the difference when a female writer is writing about women who enjoy sports it's just about women who enjoy sports they're still women they still have their own

interest they still have friendships and family and personal dilemmas and all of these things and they're not just oh I just play fucking football and I just don't like any other people it's like no you're just a woman that enjoys sports that's not your whole personality it's so good I mean the film's not perfect but I actually think it's a really good representation of the UK in the early 2000s and that it's brilliant that atmosphere there's definitely an air of there's something very peculiar about that time. So particular. I think that film is amazing. I really, really love that film. I think it's really, I mean, there are obviously dated elements. Yeah. But I think it's absolutely iconic. I just think

there's a huge difference. You can tell a huge difference between the fucking, a woman that's written by a woman and a woman that's written by a man. You can immediately tell. You can immediately tell. Well, it's like mentioning Fleabag. It's written by a man you can immediately tell you can immediately tell well it's like mentioning fleabag it's like okay there can be fleabag or there can be kind of everyone well you can tell by thinking do i like this yes or no if it's a no it didn't come from a woman does this feel like a human literally does this feel like a human or a robot it is hilarious definitely oh my god i thought this one was really interesting and didn't give us a lot of info but i i would love to i would

love to hear about it from from you and i would just love to discuss okay so this person said hated so the question was have you experienced or witnessed internalized misogyny and i thought this was so good or just so interesting and no one else said it that i saw but i just thought it's a classic example i hated that they were making the 13th doctor who a woman oh wow oh my god okay so if you don't know doctor who it's a real british classic cult classic if they're people that don't know what Doctor Who is. Yeah, yeah, for sure. My God, wow. You don't know David Tennant?

Tennant? Christopher Ackleston? Oh my God. You don't know Billy Piper? Goodness. Oh, well, she's kind of a not like other girls girl. I loved Billy Piper. There we go. Well, so anyway, Doctor Who is kind of this time travelling... He's a time lord.

You know, time lord. Time lord. Time lord. And he travels the universe in his phone box, in his TARDIS. And he kind of picks up like hot girls on the way, basically. No, only is he a time lord. He's the last time lord. Exactly. Yeah, he's the last of his kind.

He travels in time. He saves the world he like finds a sidekick or two typically like a hot gal um really really cool guy and he shapeshifts he has what are they called he can kind of reincarnate every there's a certain word right i don't know it's been years there's a particular word they use in the series but i guess we're not that we're not as well versed in doc two as we once were we're not do you know what they call themselves whovians literally that yeah i once sat next to a girl in a lesson who said i'm a whovian and i was like oh my god well she was not like other girls for sure i thought it was like a dr seuss thing so

basically the time lord basically every so often when they want to reinvent the series they'll sack off the actor and they'll find a new one and since i don't know when dr who was came out the 60s yeah yeah we must be right if we both think it kind of with the classic time looks like a bad tv definitely the 60s it's like all these old like british white male actors and he can completely reincarnate essentially so that a new actor can play him and give the series a new lease of life and it actually had a resurgence in the early 2000s which is why you and i are familiar with it as in the way that we are um and they revised it and rebooted it when was this 2016 maybe 2017 was that a reboot well

it's just the new series because it was that was it that matt smith no matt smith was 2010 no it was that other guy the old peter capaldi then they had him now they have the woman i don't even know the woman's name jodie whittaker right she's amazing i haven't seen it oh my god she's amazing well i haven't seen it but have you watched it no but i love her well obviously not enough because you haven't watched it. I didn't watch the first two. I loved... I actually thought the other day I was watching Broadchurch and I thought I would call my child Jodie after this woman.

Oh, she's in Broadchurch. She's amazing. Well, I do need to watch that. Well, anyway, I just thought this was a really good comment. Hated that they were making the 13th Doctor a woman. It's like, yeah, of course. So basically the hoo-ha was the scandal was the hooviens who are in the uk that isn't racist and it isn't sex and it's so perfect boring um

that everyone was like they can't make it a woman because it's always been a man like why would he he can shape shift not into a different fucking sex and all of this and then people were like you know i don't care if they're making a woman but like why do we have to put women in everything you know we don't have to be inclusive and everything like i saw a lot of this fine i i'm not fast i don't care that it's a woman i just think god we don't have to make everything inclusive yeah a lot of it was oh not that i care like but we don't have they don't have to be in everything i don't need to be in every single thing it's like what women don't need to be in everything exactly are you It's like, well, women don't need to be in everything. Exactly. Are you mad?

Like, it's kind of like... It's like, but a woman made you. I find that so strange. It's like... You're only here because of a woman. Women are everything. Women are everything. You will never escape us. But it's just sort of like,

why would a woman not have to be in everything? Are you fucking nuts? Completely. Completely. When it's been a white man since the 60s is our guess i'm just like uninformed arguments here when it's been a white man for so long why would it not goodness me in 2020 be a woman it's like the fact that you have such a deep rooted sense that but women can do it because they're stupid and it's not interesting they're not funny they're not

entertaining you hate them you hate us you hate women well what's the point what's the point blah blah what's the point you don't want to see them on your screen you don't find them entertaining you don't find them intelligent you don't find them funny you just think they're nice to look at just say you hate women and go why is it unrealistic for a woman to be smart as this character is and good as this character is when she also has a fucking supersonic screwdriver that she uses as a weapon to gauge her time fucking travel for goodness sake do you know what's fascinating about this so do you are you familiar with sarah jane sarah jane adventures i am so doctor, back in I'd say the 80s, I don't know the dates,

he had a sidekick called Sarah Jane. They revived her story with the Sarah Jane Adventures that was on CBBC. That was a whole other thing. It was kind of a spin-off. But she, so the Doctor, I don't know why we're such big fans today. It's a spin-off, why are we talking about this? Yeah, completely. The Doctor, Doctor Who has a sonic screwdriver.ah jane showing misogyny and everything has a sonic lipstick can you believe can you believe guys can you fucking believe i mean it says it all don't tell me you think we're not dumb you think we're so dumb he has a screwdriver he just does that all day twist a little screwdriver he half the time he doesn't know how to fucking use it half the time it doesn't work she has a lip stick do you want to just call me dumb and leave

like seriously i can't bear it so also then there will be a part of that that as a child you're watching that on cbbc consuming that and as you've always known that the doctor has a supersonic supersonic i don't think it's sonic it's just sonic i think it's supersonic the doctor has always had a sonic screwdriver you now see a woman and she doesn't get to have the classic part of the role and so you think why do i have to miss out and so then you think okay well what ways can i lean into things what parts of myself can i shed and reject so that i can easier fit into the spaces where i will be given the screwdriver and not the shitty second option it's like why when i could have a screwdriver that does shit it's kind of like oh what do men have in their bags men have tools they do stuff they make stuff what do women do oh they just make themselves look

pretty it's like you fucking joking give me the screwdriver right now and even though a sonic lipstick is way miles cooler than a sonic screwdriver it's the fact that the sonic screwdriver is the default it represents maybe it represents so much yes it represents action it represents like doing making creating stuff lipstick represents the male gaze patriarchal sense of beauty completely yeah it's like think about what the objects you've given a man and a woman yeah completely but then i also think there's no and the second that a woman steps into a role of power everyone hates her completely then i also think there's the second lens the second element of not only do these items have very glaringly obvious connotations but beyond

that why does everything why is a woman's experience not the default why is a man's experience only valid why is that the only experience that is good or the only stories that need to be told i thought i thought i was gonna say this earlier i thought this is a really interesting bit of language but i saw this i was just doing some reading as i do as we all do women read you know and they had written they'd written the word he and then in brackets they put i am only using the word he to denote both male and female experiences but i'm using he as a default and it's like if you were using he you do know he is gendered like you can't use that to denote male and female experience so why the fuck did you not just write they you moron

well also it's like yeah take away the brackets because that goes without saying because i completely agree with you he is the default yeah completely but you shouldn't be sustaining that yeah but i just thought it was a crazy thing to write like that's insane it was really it was on the defense it was like he and by the way i'm using he as an inclusive term it's like no you're not don't say you're not don't say you're using that as inclusive just write the word they do you aware that word exists that is so bizarre but it was almost like written like and all those mad feminists that are gonna come to me i'm using he as to mean he and she it's like no that doesn't make any sense fucking hell

doesn't make any sense do you see how dumb men are and yet women are apparently the dumb ones literally it's like me writing oh so the table by the way I'm using the word table

to mean table and chair it's like no you weren't though so stupid fucking god that's depressing that's bleak so this has been an interesting episode

a lot of Doctor Who has come up who would have thought it yeah i absolutely loved it though i mean i feel like we've gone through everything ben and i beckham like what we've gone through everything and and yet also nothing i know this really didn't take the take the course that i envisioned but i'm really happy that it took a different turn same here i i um i feel uh like a better person after having that conversation my life feels more whole and enriched i've been truly enriched by this combo yeah oh i love that oh it goes without saying i feel it every week do you mostly i usually feel quite drained and like i drain you of everything i often feel like did i express anything did I say anything right oh completely and the answer when I edit is absolutely no you did not you did not trust that gut feeling you didn't say anything

you wanted to say so yeah thank you everyone yeah thanks for your messages I'm so sorry that we couldn't go through more if we do another episode well i mean we will do another episode but if we do another episode on the similar themes then we will use more of your honestly amazing and hilarious insight and we will go through and literally read them all we do we do go through yeah we literally today we just could not go through them all there were so many there's a lot of thoughts i think it shows there's a lot of thoughts because this conversation felt quite chaotic, but it flowed. It was good.

Yeah, it flowed like one big tsunami. Like the patriarchy washing over me. And terrifying. So go and question your internalised misogyny. I'm questioning why you haven't left us a review on Apple. Oh yeah. That's what I'm questioning. That was an hour of three conv convo and we're happy for it

to be free we love giving it we love the chat but please please please go give us a review because we absolutely live for the reviews it's like i didn't want to have to ask but you've left us no choice genuinely so please go give us a review and share this to your story go tell your friends about us we love getting messages saying that you sent this to your friends that makes me so happy yeah i mean honestly everything you guys do makes me happy i've got a big old smile on my face just thinking about you anything you guys tell me i'm in um so thank you guys so so much as always we absolutely adore you adore j'adore like kind of in tears also good news sephie now has animal crossing so i'm about to end this podcast real quick and go and visit her island oh yeah erin's coming over to my island right now and it's called do you want to know

the name well maybe you should reveal it in the next episode at the beginning okay okay island island name revealed next episode can the beginning okay okay island island name revealed next episode can't wait oh stay tuned okay cool if anyone wants to come to our island let us know we might do a giveaway a giveaway a giveaway of visits i just organized a whole business by the way we're giving away a free switch oh shit two pounds a ticket word vomit okay cool okay speech later guys thanks guys wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh canadian dairy it's also refreshingly cheap just 99 cents

until july 14th it's a treat for you and your wallet