Goes Without Saying - is it OK to be bad at your hobby?

Episode Date: July 7, 2024

THE SUMMER BONANZA BEGINS. podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on productivity, perfectionism, hobbies and hustle culture, Maths GCSEs and academic trauma. ✷see more ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian Dairy it's also refreshingly cheap just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet Goes without saying our YouTube has dropped Finally we have been filming has dropped finally we have been filming non-stop, hijinks ensued and now the Sephian Wing cinematic universe is alive and ready for you to come and enjoy. There'll be videos all through July and hopefully ongoing as well but come and just see what's going on. Till the end of time. Yeah. Oh wait where can they find it? Type in Sephian Wing guys you know how to use youtube. yeah and it's also on our instagram sephianwing. it's also linked below if you need if you need some help. yeah yeah.

welcome back. settling into summer now. it really feels like okay we're in the swing of the sephian wing summer. we're in the swing of the bonanza. are there any crucial videos coming out on this day that we should talk about? i don't know. i don't even know what day this is but as usual. go look on youtube guys. yeah and i'm gonna assume that you've been continuing to be nice over there, say thank you so much. yeah i'll just assume that. and if you're being mean then stop that. stop being a asshole. i have also been considering, this is a bit random one, i've been considering getting a flip phone. Oh yeah, do you remember we saw that Hello Kitty phone? I do remember and it has lived in my mind a little bit. I definitely would want a pink flip phone.

I feel like if you're getting a flip phone you might as well get a pink flip phone. Yeah, go all the way. I feel like Hello Kitty maybe is a bit too far. Pushing it a bit. Go on. Yeah, just in the way of like for example, I'll just assume everyone loves me. Like I'll just assume, I can't see any comments, I'll just assume. Yeah. Just in the way of like, for example, I just assume everyone loves me. Like, I just assume. I can't see any comments. I'll just assume. Right. Like, I was almost thinking maybe I should have my phone and kind of use it as a bit of an iPad. Like, that's got like Instagram and everything on and like just within the house.

I have my social media. And then yeah. And almost just like every just like all my photos are on, like you know, it functions as an iPad, like I've got Netflix and everything on there. But just to stop the like, the mindless social media of like, oh yes I'm going- The incessant mindless scrolling. Just like, okay my friend's gone to the toilet and now I'll sit here, or like I'm waiting for a bus and now I'll sit there and that's like, it would be quite nice to like have a really like rudimentary like shit phone.

And it might as well be a pink flip phone. 100%. It just literally truly has to be and I think everyone knows why. It goes without saying. It literally does actually go without saying why it must be a pink flip phone. I had a pink flip phone.

Oh God, I would have been so fucking jealous. I had the pink Motorola. That's the one that I want. Oh that's the exact one. It was great. I saw a photo of Paris Hilton with it and I just thought what? Wow that was my phone. Why do I have a black horrible thing but I can't have that. They are fun. There's something about it that's so kind of... the pebble ones. The pebble ones? That could be what it is. The ones that slide up with the keyboard underneath. It might be. No, I don't think it had a... let me have a look. I never had a BlackBerry, did you? It slides up onto its side and it's got a full keyboard, a bit like a sort of... like a laptop... sort of BlackBerry, like a Qwerty keyboard. Like a BlackBerry? No, it's's a BlackBerry like QWERTY keyboard. like a BlackBerry? no it's not a BlackBerry, it's like a I think it's an LG phone

I think it might have been a pebble it's this I mean no that's a Motorola pebble that's not what I'm talking about mine is this, an LG KS360 in pink is what I want KS360? in pink

39.99 oh yes I remember these. How cool is that? Yeah so these are a bit later down the line just slightly. Yeah that might be a bit of a like a new world phone. That's 2008 I think. Yeah it is. Yeah yeah so yeah 2008 that makes sense because we she had it in year 8 I think. Oh there's an lg wing phone. oh my god well that would be cool. i don't know if that's new though. yeah all right okay. but then i was thinking about you and like- well i don't want to have to green text you on my little pay as you go phone it's like i need to message her on our flip phone today. yeah it would be a bit annoying i'm not gonna lie. so i you know sorry about your mental health and that but It's more just like for the vibes, you know, I really I do love

Love the vibes. Well, so maybe I could just get one with no battery and just walk around with it. That will probably do That's all I want I just want to flip it up a couple times like a fidget spinner or something. I used to... no, that's literally what I used to do all day. Flip it up, flip it down, flip it up, flip it down. Yeah, that's all I want to do. Flip it up, flip it down, just flip it all around. And that's what I'll do when I'm waiting at the bus stop instead of scrolling. Oh god, that does hurt actually. Doesn't it sound really good? Just flip it around. Yeah, it does, it does.

Like, I don't even want any of the facilities or whatever that it has for functions. Yeah. I purely want, like the idea of actually texting out a message on one of those makes me want to scream. It's fucking long, yeah it is. It's undeniably long. But I do want one anyway, sorry. What? Happy summer. Yeah happy summer and...

Fun topic today. Go on. let me get the exact wording because that's what hooks me. is it okay to be bad at your hobby? one word answer, yes. that's the whole point. good freaking question. is it okay to be bad at your hobby? More than okay, it's encouraged. It should be welcomed, in fact. Maybe actually not to be bad. Maybe I disagree with that. Okay, go on. So take us from the top. It's okay to be bad at your hobby, for sure. That's a definite yes. Is it enjoyable? Is it pleasurable to be bad at your hobby?

For me personally, if I'm bad at something like... Okay, so if it's a skill you can develop i totally get it but it's like okay so if i'm bad at um i don't know running for example i don't know how enjoyable i would find running it's like um i think maybe there is a bit of a hobby that you want to be something that you can feel yourself like getting better at and like building skills and like learning through it. well, I think the idea of learning and building the skill is really different to being fixed good or bad. And I feel like we do generally as people, or we are told that being bad at something is uncomfortable, even is shameful yeah and so I feel like there is

like again if you're bad yeah no it's like don't admit you've ever you've never done that yeah yeah pretend that doesn't happen that's not your box move on try no no move on move on yeah and the next thing you try it make sure would you mind trying it in private so we don't have to deal with you being bad at it please come back in a year when you're about a singer, please. Oh god. Oh That one hurts. Yeah Yeah, I do think for you if you can't think of anything. Oh, come on then go on Is there anything that you enjoy that you are bad at? Um, yeah, I love

Learning to play the piano. I think I'll be learning to play the piano my whole life Yeah, I'm just learning to play the piano I can't play the piano but whole life. Perpetual state of learning. Yeah, I'm just learning to play the piano. I can't play the piano, but I do love to learn. And I will continue. You're not bad are you? You've played some songs. Um, yeah I mean I'm not bad. You did a bit of Hamilton once on there. I'm not bad at learning, but like if I had to play something I wouldn't be able to.

I'm not good, do you know what I mean? I can't act, it's not actually a skill that I have. I'm still, yeah, I'm not I'm not good. Do you know I mean I can't act it's not actually a skill that I have I'm still Yeah, I'm still learning it. But yeah, thankfully I have no stake in the piano world totally And I feel as much as I think it's the most kind of beautiful and desirable thing that anybody could ever do Like play piano beautifully. I think it's so like whoa. i don't know if there's much more impressive than that. i- it's ethereal almost. yeah it's so beautiful but i'm happy that that's- it's actually so stunning. that's got nothing to do with me really, i'm just kind of here slapping my big hands around the keyboard. dong dong dong. i'm not really um, for some reason I'm thankfully not bothered about the fact that I'm just like, I'm not, I think it's not even that, yeah, it's not that I'm, for my stage I'm

not particularly bad at it for example, it's not that I'm bad at it, it's just that I am not- You haven't learnt that skill. Yeah I haven't learnt that skill, I'm not someone who plays piano, I'm not someone who knows how to play the piano. But I'm really comfortable in being at that stage. Totally. Which is, I think quite rare, for me at least.

I don't love being bad really at anything. And I definitely have that fixed perspective of, if I'm bad, I will always be bad. And I can never get good at it, yeah. And I think that is a classic thing. Like if you were taught as a kid that like you just step into something and you never get good at it. And I think that is a classic thing. If you were taught as a kid that you just step into something and you're naturally great at it, you learn that learning isn't really real.

I'm just naturally good at everything. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. You will learn and you can learn and you should learn and give yourself the space to do that. What about you? I love that. I don't know. That's the one I always go to just because it feels like... It's nice. It's a silly one and it's just like yeah, that's whatever. And it's a safe one isn't it? Exactly. There's a real safety in being like and it's so stunning

to be like and I have no stake in it like those are the ones. That truly is a hobby like a hobby like I don't even know what the definition of a hobby is but i'm sure it's gonna just be like a pastime that you enjoy and like i don't know like for something to be my hobby it has to kind of be something i like do quite like regularly like i don't know if i have really like for example my friend is so insane with her like her hobby is tennis she's tennis tennis tennis like three times a week tennis. I don't wanna speak for it, but I don't know if she's really good at it.

Like, I don't know if she is. I think she's definitely improving. But every time I speak to her, look, I've never seen this girl play tennis, but I just know I have. And clearly I wasn't blown away. But like, for someone that plays it as often as she does it's not something that like she's not trying she's always saying it's quite bad at it so I find that quite like um

truly inspiring actually of like you're giving it a good go but it's just not landing yeah you're just not you know and she's clearly getting better like she has got better she's only been doing it for a few years but I do love the vibes of just like I do tennis I think three times is an outrageous amount of time purely for the bum that's just such an insane amount of time to blend on doing something that you're not very good at yeah it must be pure love I think as well it's natural like in terms of the more you do something you you can't help but get better at it you just get better at of the more you do something you you can't help but get better at it you just get better at it the more you do it and so naturally

then I think it is the thing of if a hobby is defined as a pastime something that you enjoy doing as often as possible you enjoy integrating it into your life if you do that for six months yeah you probably will get better so I think there is a discomfort in an awareness of I'm either not getting better or almost like a reluctance to be like maybe this thing isn't for me. Maybe I'm not good at this thing yeah. And just even saying that made me realize like 100% that's how I feel about yoga. I am not actually, I'm not good at yoga. I do yoga multiple times a week. Like it is quite a fundamental part of like my sanity at this

point. Like I really think I rely on it quite heavily, but I'm not good at it. Like I am not like a naturally, I'm not naturally strong. Like I'm not a strong, strongly, I don't really, I'm not like muscle-y person and I'm not, I'm not like super flexible. Like I can't touch my toes with, like I can't have my heels on the floor when I'm doing Downward Dog, like any of that shit that is either like the markers

of like the improvements. Like I feel like that was one of the things that it's like, okay, so if you can get your heels on the ground whilst you're in Downward Dog, that's like a marker of like your flexibility improving. I've been doing yoga for years. I definitely can't do that. Or I go through phases where my hamstrings will be less like tight or whatever. But that's not like a thing I can always do. Or like rare, very, very rarely. So I don't know, it's not something I'm good at but I genuinely and I feel like anyone that is like a yoga teacher would be like no it's not about

the shape or like it's not about being good at it like it is just like about what it is and I know that's the essence. But there is an element of like, it's really like you don't necessarily see improvements unless you're sort of training for something but and I'm not training to like i don't want to do a perfect you know that thing be a yogi master yeah exactly like there's a there's a pose where people do i feel like it's sort of a generic they put their feet in the air yeah where they're leaning on their hands it's like they're sort of squatting but they're like oh their weight is on the palms of their hands yeah and their legs are up it yeah yeah yeah that's almost like well I've definitely never done that definitely never done that and like maybe if I did get to a point where I could do that

I would be like whoa I've like made a big step there. I have like that would be something that's like I've seen improvement I've never seen any real improvement in my yoga. Wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. It's just something I do every day that makes me, or every few days that makes me feel really good.

Yeah. So that to me is the definition of a hobby. That's the thing is I think it's not often that you find that level of, almost just like yeah, the comfort in I don't need to be amazing at this thing and also understanding that if I do learn and if I do improve, I will feel really accomplished and good in that and that is great. But also, if that's not where I'm at, then fuck it sort of thing. And like living in the kind of the confidence of just enjoying that thing in a society where you're constantly being told that like just who you are isn't good enough

or you're not doing enough. And almost so much is wrapped up in the identity of these things and like how you're choosing to spend your time needs to be, like you need receipts, like you need to show it off to people or use it or capitalize on it or create a fucking side hustle out of it, blah, blah blah blah. Yeah.

I feel like it is honestly I think really difficult to do things often that you're not naturally necessarily good at. And the world I think isn't really set up to let us feel like we're allowed to spend time really doing anything other than like contributing to other people's pockets, working our lives away. So the choice to spend time doing something purely for the love of it is totally rebellious and not something that is like encouraged in society. At all. Yeah. Gosh, getting choked up. That was kind of me, like, I need a glass of water. No, so do I. This is your nightmare, by the way. It's water from a mug. Cold water. I hate a cold water in a mug, mug. In a hot mug. Actually quite horrific.

It's just a bad, um, I think someone said it to me once as a kid and then it just put me off for life. No, it's a really bad vibe. I was think someone said it to me once as a kid and then it just put me off for life No, it's a really bad vibe. I was really gutted, but all the glasses are in the it is nothing but you know You do thoughts on being bad at things Because I personally don't like it. I Don't love it. I have to say I think it's really like confronting and so difficult. And also I think there's a real difference

between being bad at something now and being bad at something as a kid. Because I feel like as a kid you're so quick to absorb signs of who you are. You're just trying to work it out and people say that if you're bad at that you probably do never do it again. If you're good at that then it feeds it and you do more similar things. By the time we get to this age, whatever age you are, happy birthday by the way if it's coming out. Personally I know mine's coming out pretty soon. Yeah. And I know yours is too if we've all moved them.

But I do feel like now it's all so fixed that it's like, it's all built on this weird, so I didn't do gymnastics, I did probably my yoga thing as well. I quit gymnastics, Tuesday lunchtimes, gymnastics class. I did that for a bit, I was quite bad at it. And I've never done it, and I quit gymnastics, never really did gymnastics again. All of a sudden when I'm sort of 20,

this idea of like yoga, that looks interesting. And now I've still got a thing of like, yeah, I'm not good at it. And it's How much of that how much of that is? Didn't like ketchup once never tried it again thought I was a morning person once never questioned it again and like the narratives Yeah, how much of it is especially when it's not just a narrative that you've or an identity that you've placed on your placed You've placed on yourself. Sorry. I don't know why I'm like so adrenaline girl today No it's summer, you can be who you want

I don't know what that means It's summer but god forbid autumn, turn it down It's summer, you can be who you want Be who you are Like that goes without saying It does go without saying The narratives that we place on ourselves are the narratives that other people place on us and the labels and the identities that just stop us from literally just kind of exploring

or like going to a random, for example, like yoga class and being like, I'm still not great but I enjoyed it or oh, I actually, maybe I'm not particularly bad at it, it's just a thing I like to do whatever. Do you know an identity that we both have that I'm quite I've been intrigued in the most mild way to try and shift this. Oh okay. No it's just an identity that we both have. Well I'll try and shift it as well then if you want. No no because it's such a boring one to try and shift like I'm talking like oh yeah I want to try and shift it but like I don't know if I actually physically have it in me. We both identify we're bad at maths. Bad at maths? Yeah we're bad at maths

and yesterday I was looking at pencil cases and I was looking at protractors and compasses and set squares and all of this stuff and I thought shiv is giving me the heebie-jeebies. Yeah, it does give the heebie-jeebies. And I thought, shall I try and do a GCSE maths paper? Like, should I just sit down? And I just would love, I just actually feel like it's actually so sad that I had that skill. I got to a point, I worked so freaking hard

to build these skills and I don't know, I would sit in front of this maths paper and think, don't know what I'm looking at and I would love to be able to I haven't done like a long even like a long edition some or like a long division haven't done that on paper since that day since I passed that exam right well I won't be joining in on that just to be clear. And I don't blame you because it's so boring. I also like, I... what does it mean to be bad at maths really in the grand scheme of things because... It's actually quite debilitating. Well I don't feel debilitated in my life in terms of like my maths skills. I definitely think, I hope you don't take this personally, but you are slightly worse than me. No I know I am. Yeah you are. I don't know anything to do with maths. Yeah you are slightly worse than me. No, I know I am. I know I am. I don't know anything

to do with maths. Yeah, you are actually. You are worse than me. I hate it, Scott. It's true. But, okay, so why... what about that? You don't like the narrative or you don't like the reality? I think it's a narrative. I think it was something that is said when you identify with this young age and then you find it harder and harder and harder and then you struggle with it. This huge fucking boring bullshit maths thing and then it's suddenly it's like now it's there's a whole um area of stuff that i avoid and i do think it's unfortunate because it comes into so many things. well i was gonna say it's also hugely gendered in a kind of women and stem angle of like it's convenient that we're like i love english i love history and i hate maths and da da da da da, maths is so boring and da da da da da. It is totally like

a thing that is placed on women all the time. Yeah. But also like- I just wouldn't mind doing some sums. I would mind. I would really honestly mind. I just want to get to the point that, ugh, I think I need to. Go on. I think I actually need to, like, in the way that it's like, I don't mind it not being, I don't mind not being good at it, but I really don't like, I physically don't speak the language of maths. I actually am illiterate.

It's like, I don't know what is going on. These numbers may give me a headache and it's really stressful. I would like to, it's horrible. Well, yeah, it is horrible, it's not nice. So what I think I might start doing is like, is there, does anyone know, is there like a duolingo for maths? Why don't you go on like BBC Byte size and kind of work your way up the few stages?

Don't send me back there. All kind of my maths or one of those things. I did my time. Yeah like why don't you just start doing kind of year nine stuff and work your way up. I don't want to. I know but GCSE I'm not trying to be rude might be a bit hard. I'm actually not trying to be rude it will be hard. I would be so fucked. Yeah. I honestly think I might need to go back to like

year five. Well you might then go back to like a place where you think you might have you know you can get you find your feet and be confident. Do you know your timetables and stuff? I had an amazing maths tutor, maths lady, in year 11. No, no, year 11. Her name was Katie Patel and I only recently got rid of her phone number in my phone because I just thought if ever a maths emergency I know just the woman to call. She was an absolute genius. Yeah, if I ever need to calculate, it took 45 minutes to get to portsmouth and adam bought eight apples and how many trees did he pass on the way yeah i don't know i wouldn't feel bad about it sephi no i don't but it's a skill that i think i am resistant to which i needn't be you

think you don't have like a base level skill no i definitely don't have a base level skill but i don't have a base level skill in so many things, but I think I would love- But maths is a pretty key one, isn't it? I actually feel like a huge resistance to it, and I don't want to feel that. I do really get that. I want to feel like I've got my grips around it. It's almost like I don't feel like almost my little sister's doing her maths homework, and I'm like, don't ask me. I want to be someone that can be like, okay, I can sit down and I can look at this paper without my eyes watering and be like fucking get me out of here or kind of be

like yeah this isn't my strong point but like it's okay i have a basic understanding like i'm not going to be like really overwhelmed and stressed by it that's what we're aiming for i think i would i would like to get to the point where i could get like a i'd like to achieve once again a b in my gtsc maths that would be really nice. i think that might be ambitious but yeah i hear you. yeah that is ambitious. well just give yourself time as in i believe it i believe you could get an a star they don't even grade them in that way. no no i know i could get a nine. well if you spent years and years and years i think that's what they're called now. i forgot that it's all changed. yeah it's changed. i think you could i know that you could you could do anything you put your mind to,

but I just think realistically, why don't you just, you know, just think about maths a bit more in your life. Basically what I might start doing, this is why I want to find some kind of app, speaking of flip phones, it goes against the bar. I'm sure there is apps. But like some kind of app where it will just give me very basic sums and I can just do them and almost, and today we're learning about expanding fractions. And it's like, okay.

Ooh. I know, ooh. But I don't want to feel ooh. I want to feel like, okay, it's not my strong point, but I can do it. I definitely feel ooh and I'm comfortable to feel ooh, but I do feel generally like, I feel like in the grand scheme of the world,

I don't feel like, exceptionally feel like in the grand scheme of the world, I don't feel like, you know, exceptionally bad at maths. I think I could get by in most spaces. I think I just identify it. I don't know, maybe we're a bit hard on ourselves because we feel exceptionally good at English, for example. So then by contrast, it's like, oh, I probably feel a lot worse at maths because I expect myself to be really good at it. Okay, well. No, I think it's like, I'm actually bad, like globally bad at maths. Globally bad?

Like almost, I don't think it's like, oh, I've got, no, I actually think it's like a bit maybe embarrassing how bad I am at maths. Well, I'm not good at it either. I'm not good at it either, but I support and I look forward to hearing your progress genuinely. Oh god. No, even that is like, I've said too much. I don't want to do this anymore.

I take it back. Please don't make me. Well the idea of doing past papers and stuff does make me feel sick just because it's almost like that kind of does go against my being and I just, yeah, I'm not really into that. I had to do this awful thing. I think this is actually what set off the maths thing like my hatred of it I had to do this thing called kumon when I was younger. yes I remember. have you ever heard of that? yeah I've heard of it from you and our other friend at uni did it as well. oh really? it's hell. yeah you know you bonded over it. oh god and I'll bond with

every single person that had to sit at their kitchen table doing these fucking maths papers And then every Tuesday go to a place. Well no wonder you don't. So it's obviously linked some sort of trauma I know it's linked to the thing of having before your breakfast and You're having to do like papers of maths and I think also this is the big thing that I found really hateful about Kuman in particular. Hateful. Hateful. They said it's a 10 page like thing of sums you have to do every morning. They count the pages like this. Each piece of paper is one so one and then it's a whole that's

double-sided basically. So it was 20 pages of sums in the morning. That's quick maths from you. Two times ten, wow, how did you do that? I do remember once, this is when I was way older, I was probably, I might have even been in sixth form at the time, there was this random thing where they came into, like, it must have been when we had like a free lesson, like a study lesson or whatever, like, you know, in sixth form, did you have lessons? What is this episode about? Being bad at your hobby, okay, thank God.

Okay, thank God. Yeah, okay, so maths isn't necessarily my hobby, but it's fine. I remember they came in and they were like, who wants to be a part of this like fun thing that we're doing? Like you kind of go into like the year above or something and blah, blah, blah.

You might get some sweets sort of thing. And I was like, hell yeah, I'll get some sweets. Walk straight in, walk into a a room why is everyone sat at exam desks with mass papers in front of them no yes no yes red wedding no literally i've been betrayed i've been massively betrayed judas yeah genuinely trust issues literally. Get me the fuck out of here and I had no choice but to sit down and take it like a chump. It was absolutely horrific. Oh my god that's actually horrific. It was mortifying. No sweets in sight by the way. Absolutely freaking ourselves. Oh did you get any sweets? Got nothing but a devastating sense of shame and misery. And a distrust

of authority that will last a lifetime. Honestly. Thank you very much. Okay, well, everyone let us know what hobbies you're bad at and keep doing more of them. I think it's the summer of doing things you're bad at. Yeah, and enjoying every step. Yeah, exactly. Stunning. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Summer. Wendy's has a new breakfast deal. Mix and match two items of your choice for only $4. Breakfast wrap, biscuit, or English muffin sandwiches, small seasoned potatoes, or small hot coffee. Choose two for $4 at Wendy's. Available for a limited time at

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