Goes Without Saying - is she “wise” or just traumatised?

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

THE SUMMER BONANZA BEGINS. podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on instinct and intuition, changing plans and rejection, heartbreak, trauma, and figuring it out. ✷see more ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hello in Tansi. My name is Joel de Moncran. I'm an actor and I'm indigenous and I've created a podcast called Actors and Ancestors. It's a podcast all about indigenous actors here on Turtle Island and our experience in the industry. So if that sounds like something that your ear balls would be happy to listen to, then check out ActorsAndAncestors.com and go to any of your favorite podcast players and we're there. helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com Goes without saying, our YouTube has dropped finally. We have been filming non-stop, hijinks ensued and now the Cepheidon Wing Cinematic Universe is live and ready for you to come and enjoy. There'll be videos all

through July and hopefully ongoing as well but come and just see what's going on. Till the end of time. Yeah. Oh wait where can they find it? Type in Sephian Wing guys you know how to use YouTube. Yeah and it's also on our Instagram Sephian Wing. It's also linked below if you need some help. them help. Oh yeah. Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. This is genuinely, and I'm not just saying this, one of my favorites in ages.

What? Yeah, so I feel like lucky for you, if you've been gone for a few weeks and you haven't been around and you randomly clicked on this one and be like, oh, give them another go. I actually, I think this might be some of our best work yeah from the beginning as well we don't do a little amble at the beginning no we go straight in with an absolute cracker of a story i'm good i'm glad you felt that way enjoy oh well just to start off someone just said just flopped an exam listen to your flop era episode Monday's episode for you viewers at home Brackets sobbing and then the heart emoji with the bandages over it. Okay. Well, we're sending so much love also

One thing I would say is I don't think anyone ever knows how they did an exam Yeah, yeah It always seems to be, you didn't do as bad as you thought you did, or if you thought you did really well, often it didn't actually go like that. No, backfires, yeah. I feel like people are really bad at judging how they went,

but even if it did flop, or even if you didn't get the grade you wanted, my God, have we not learned through this podcast so far? Oh, sorry. That's fine. But it's like, things don't turn out the way that you want them to sometimes, and sometimes that is better. It's totally more than just exams,

it's really like life. It's really almost separating the art from the artist. We have the conversation all the time with the pod of like, oh, I felt good doing that, and then you listen back and it's like, that doesn't make any sense, or, oh, I felt really weird and awful recording that, and then you listen back and it's like,

oh, my fun was good. It was good yeah it was perfect. And similarly with like films or art or music or anything all too well now means something totally different what it meant at the start like yeah the meaning that you can draw for something just purely from the experience of making it or doing it isn't always the full story. No. And don't write yourself off. It also makes me think of my, people know the Exeter saga of my life. I hope they do. I'm sure they do.

To give you the bullet points, I was set on going to Exeter University to study English. I didn't put an insurance choice. I was so confident in it, mental behaviour from me. Every time you say it, I nearly got shivers in because I think I forget that you didn't, I'm like, oh yeah, she really wanted to go to extra, she really wanted to go to extra.

Based on nothing, I knew nothing about this course, this is the most mad thing about it. It's really, really weird of you actually, it's a bit of a red flag. Yeah, such a red flag, which is why it's a thing within my family that we say like, you needed that year, like you were not. You weren't ready. say like you needed that year like you were not You weren't ready. You weren't mature enough like you were um, arrogant actually. Yeah, like you

You needed some humble pie and I got served it. Is that what shane dawson said or something? Oh my god about James charles, I can't remember what it was, but someone just really bespoke humble pie and offered up humble pie And it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a bit weird, but. Someone said humble pie. I offered up humble pie and it's like oh yeah. It was crazy. Yeah it's a bit weird but you needed your humble pie. You were starving for some humble pie I guess in that moment. Yeah and then so I didn't get in. I was one mark off and I was obviously devastated, devastated, devastated and literally thought oh my god I fucked everything. My life is over. My life is over and oh my god oh my, that year so much happened it set everything on a different course and you wouldn't be listening to this podcast Harry. You certainly wouldn't like I personally and I know I am so happy that that happened and I genuinely that makes me kind of believe in like fate and like and universal powers,

in the fact that I'm so sure that this path was right and that one was wrong, which I know everyone would say, but I'm so sure of it. So I would just say, even if you think you fuck something up, an exam, a job interview, whatever, you have no idea what's right for you. And I always say, you couldn't even imagine all the amazing things on the horizon. You really don't. I also have never told the story on the amazing things on the horizon. You couldn't. You really don't. I also, I've never told the story on the podcast,

but the weird one. Do you remember ever as a child, coming across the website, Peter Answers, I think it was called. Who the fuck is that? He sounds weird. Yeah, it's weird. So it was basically Peter Answers.

Are we ready? What is this? Who is that? So, Peter Ans, set the scene, it's probably like, well it must be 2006. I am 10, 11 years old, I'm 10 years old. Okay. Ish.

Yeah. And there's a website and we're all like doing it in school, we're in year six and it's Peter answers, Peter answers, Peter answers and it was basically like, you would have really liked it. I think I'm almost having flashbacks. Yeah, you might get it in a minute. That age really changed it for me. I was like oh my god I'm playing keep going. Yeah so there's a website with a

text box and you would ask Peter quote unquote a question. Yes I know him. No you're freaking me out. I know him. Weird AI man. Something like that something of the sort. So basically it was sold as this thing of like put put your question into this box, and Peter, quote unquote, will answer it. Weird. So the reality of what the, think as well, maybe you were like just born, but 2006 is a long time ago,

and the internet landscape is very different, and the website, you might not believe it now, but it was cutting edge, and it was set up as this box, you would put in your answer and then there would be a second box where it would censor what you were typing as if it was a password. You know when you type your password in, it comes up with dot dot dot, whatever.

First box for your question, second box, it would say type your question in again, but you wouldn't, you wouldn't type your question in again. You would type in what you want Peter to respond. So you could show, it was designed to show your friends and the people around you. Sorry? So you could trick.

So for example, say I'm sat with Sefi, right? And I'm opening pizza answers, really sounds like not sponsored by the way. By the like, sponsored by the way. By like sort of the cheap chat, cheapie situation. Question box and I'm sat with Sefi and I'm like, oh my God, look at this website. It's psychic, it's psychic, it knows everything about you, it knows everything about you sort of thing. So I type in the question, what is Sefi's dog called?

And Peter will come back and then I write in again I'm next to you but because it's censored you can't see what I'm typing yeah and I'll say Sefi's dog is called Otto dot. How did it know that? And then I press enter and then it comes up with the answer so perfect Sefi's dog is called Otto. So Sefi is now spooked. That's the whole set up of Peter answers. Weirdly I am spooked and you just told me what's going on. The energy feels a bit spooky, doesn't it? Weirdly it spooked me right out.

And I am gonna put us back to why we originally brought up everything has a reason to a vibe. I remember this being a big thing in year six. It was like, oh my God, we'd almost like sneak off of what we were doing in IT, ICT. And do that. And do that instead. Came home and one day randomly didn't have any siblings so I said, mom, dad, look at this thing,

Peter answers, right? Don't judge me, I had nothing better to do. No, yeah that's normal. Crucial information that I'm happy to share, at the time, quite intriguingly, my mum was having an affair. Oh my god. Okay, right, this is gonna get a bit, this gets interesting. Get a bit sad. Now tell me which other broadcaster starts giving me shit like that, huh? Nobody's doing it like this.

No one is taking you back to 2006 like this. I should have known by year six, okay, I know what's happening in my life, at that point, I can only imagine what's happening in your life at that point. I should have known it was going down. You should have known. year six, okay, I know what's happening in my life. Yeah. At that point, I could only imagine what's happening in your life at that point. I should have known it was going down. You should have known. But I didn't.

No, so I come home, mommy, daddy, I wasn't saying that, I was saying mom, dad, Peter answers, look how cool this is. Ha ha ha, I've got some tricks up my sleeve. My dad immediately, clever clogs, was like, this is a load of bollocks. Yeah. My mom, deluded, was like, tell me more. bollocks. yeah. my mum deluded was like tell me more.

so how does he know? there's a lot of anxiety going on in this woman's life my mum she's obviously having an affair she's scared she's gonna get caught out i'm guessing like you know there's some stress going on here and she's key information i'm giving quite a lot here she's pregnant at the time. oh my god. with god another man's baby you're actually giving um but i feel fine to give that you do but also guys um i don't know what i can say guys new law just dropped jesus yeah no genuinely new law so yeah are you are you understanding me more now? Is it all making sense? Okay, I promise this story is vaguely relevant. It's just a little bit interesting.

I mean, I'm hooked. Are you? Okay, good. And let me know as well, Harry, if you're hooked as well, I now speak directly to you because I'm always looking for validation and compliments. We're hooked.

Can't you tell? So, Peter answers, mom, dad, look at this thing, and we're kind of having fun. It's year six, so the landscape is looking like I'm leaving primary school and about to go to secondary school. Troy Bolton's the hottest guy alive. And boy is he. I'm having my sexual awakening. Also this is pre Justin Bieber. No no no no. He set the precedent. Yeah. He set the path. That's the landscape. So Justin could run. Sprint to the finish line.

So that's the landscape we're looking at. Yes, yes. And you know, it's tween territory. I'm awkward, I'm weird, and I don't know my life's about to blow up right before my very eyes. So, flip two on the other side. My mom is having an affair

and she's pregnant with another man's baby. She's in the living room with myself and my dad. Not ideal. I hope you guys don't mind me delivering. I think it's interesting. I remember so specifically. Oh, it's certainly interesting. It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. This is the tip of the iceberg because it's like say your mum had a like had a affair like that's not really interesting

but it gets more and more interesting but But we won't get into that. There's many layers to that. There are so many layers. The important bit, believe it or not, I am making this, I'm claiming that this is important. I sat them down with Peter answers. And my dad wasn't really landing with him. He was like, there's some sort of trick happening here.

Weirdo, he's like, I'm not gonna believe my 10 year old. Kid has a psychic website. Yeah, no, whereas my mom was like, I'm not going to believe my 10 year old kid has a psychic website. Yeah. No. Whereas my mum was like, psychic website. I love it. No offense. You're looking for answers if you're in her situation. She's like, Oh, maybe this is my way. Yeah. She thinks Peter helped me. Peter. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So we're in all these things, I can't even remember like funny things or whatever, probably just like what street do we live on, whatever, where am I from? Ian Duncan Smith, all these random things are toing and froing. Who the fuck's that?

The MP. Oh god, okay. What? How do I know that though? Cut to final question we have for Peter. I believe my mum said what secondary school will Erin go to? Yeah. Obviously at the time my mum has this extra information, extra context that the other people in the room didn't have

which is that she's carrying another man's child and ultimately this situation of us in this house will have to be, this will have to be split here. There's a time limit on here, precisely nine months. And at the time she knew she wasn't going to stay in North East London so we were applying for schools in the area, she had the foresight that that wouldn't be what would happen. Weirdly the school that I went to, there was a school in North East, there was a school called Heathcote and I went to a different school called Heathcote. Weird, weird, weird.

Which is weird. So Peter did know. But anyway, so well, no punchline just yet. So basically, I promise I'm getting there guys. What school would Erin go to? Weird question. And I typed, obviously because I'm steering the ship. Yeah.

You are Peter. I am Peter. Just in case you guys weren't getting that. I'm Peter and I have the answers. Totally. I said weird thing to do, can I have a little child? I put everything will work out as it should. You're such a weird fucking 10 year old.

I'm not gonna lie, what the fuck? And I remember, so then enter, Peter reveals answer, and the look on my mom's face. Everything will work out. She'd seen a ghost. It was probably the first question as well that hadn't been like... What's my favorite color? The dog, the house, 2007, whatever.

It was like, everything will work out. And I remember my mom being really spooked. And looking back now, it's like, yeah, I guess you would be spooked and looking back now. It's like yeah I guess you would be because you always think Peter's this close to writing you out. What school will it be? Yeah Yeah, weird really weird really weird god that's really quite bizarre yeah, but I brought that home I hope you don't mind. Yeah, why does this emphasize? the I brought that up, hope you don't mind. To emphasize the intricate and flawed concept that everything will work out as it should.

I think there's a loaded aspect to that, obviously, that loads of us don't like, because it insinuates in some way that like, oh, those shit things were meant to happen to you, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, which I think people find it can be not the most empowering of thoughts. Yeah, I kind of think that. Yeah, but I also think, for me, I think there is confidence in knowing like,

okay, well, Sefi didn't go to Exeter and thank freaking God for that. Thank God. And everything will work out as it should in terms of school, Erin Emerali and things like that. So, Peter answers. Peter answers, that's crazy. Wow, I don't think I did know him. No.

I had a thing called Ask God or something like that. It was like some weird chat, it was just like a basic AI situation. Yeah, a little God. But there was also a text version of that sort of thing, which it knew answers about you. You could say like, but you never fed it anything. You would just text this number.

Do you remember this? It was like year nine maybe. It would be like text this thing, it would be like oh what colour dress is Erin wearing? And it would be like green, and it would be like how the fuck did it know? I do remember that, what the fuck was that? Which I don't really know how that worked.

No, neither. No. Yeah, it was a text thing. It was so weird though. And it would know just like loads of stuff. Really scary to think about like, obviously it's been happening then and it's still happening now in deeper ways.

The idea that like kids are being given technology. Terrible. And God knows what we're feeding it or what it's gonna say to them. Oh my God. That's really quite average. So freaky. Things like that really freaked me out

because they bring me back to like a sleepover feeling of like- Of when you're shook. How did they fucking know that? Man, that's crazy. Like I absolutely love that feeling. But I'm also like, why do I have shivers? Pretty little liars. A. It's A.

Yeah. There's also a thing, it was on BBC, it's called Red Rose. It's a series which no one really talks about, but it's so fucking good. And it's kind of giving that technology used against teenagers is really, really interesting. And you should watch it if you're kind of interested in that and you want something that's got

the pretty little liars feeling. Should I watch it? I've told you to before. Oh. But I was only obsessed with it for a week. So I was super passionate about it. When was that? About a year ago.

I was really, really passionate about it for a week. I was like, this is great. And then I stopped it. Life continued. I forgot. But that is giving that. That spookiness. Yes.

Like how does the technology know this stuff? It's like ruining everyone's lives. Interesting show. Yeah. Red Rose. Nice, and thanks for the rec. Peter answers. Yeah.

Okay, so we asked on the story, what makes you feel fulfilled? Because kind of off the back of the flop era conversation, I feel like a lot of that was us talking about the complexity, the nuance, the balance between everything's so shit and where am I getting my fulfillment? What makes us feel free?

What makes us feel flop? Etc. And obviously the two will happen. Yeah, and you know what I mean. And these things happen simultaneously every freaking day. To no avail, frankly. I'm going to look through some answers now. Yeah, there are some nice ones. Could I start with one?

Just because almost the way they've set it up, I really appreciate. And you will too. So they've started off by saying, this might sound cocky. Love. Yeah, so immediately I'm in. Yeah.

But weirdly, my own wisdom fulfills me a lot. And I really like that. Mm-hmm. That's really interesting. Because what do you see as wisdom? Well, what do you see as wisdom? I think I see- It sounds like there's something up your sleeve. I think do you see as wisdom? Well, what do you see as wisdom? I think I see- It sounds like there's something up your sleeve.

I think I see wisdom as intuition. Like I don't necessarily, I think there's a real difference. Like the specific use of the word wisdom is kind of interesting to me there. Because I don't think they're saying, I'm really fulfilled by my intelligence, which I think wisdom kind of means, but I also don't think it sums it up at all.

Like it's not like, oh, I got this really great grade or like I understood this thing. I read this book and I just was understood it. Wisdom is like, it's the intuition. It's like using your intelligence, but also there is something sort of otherworldly about wisdom. I like, oh, sorry, go ahead.

No, just that feeling of like, I don't trust that thing. Almost trusting your gut. Totally, and being like- Instinct. Yeah, that's wisdom to me. Yes, it's based on learning experiences and all of that stuff, but there's also the thing of like, I'm getting a bad feeling about that.

That's interesting. Yeah, I 100% think that is so fulfilling when you trust that thing that you, it's not tangible, you can't put any reasoning behind it. Really. That's really interesting. Or you can, but it's just, I think that is fulfilling, big time. Fulfilling.

To the soul. In what sense? Of like, yeah, I just knew. The confidence almost that comes with the thing of like, yes. I think it being affirmed of being like, I knew, I trusted myself, I used all of my tools in my arsenal,

my intelligence, my learning experience, and my intuition, my instinct, all of this stuff which I'm putting under the word wisdom, and it fucking paid off, and I knew it. I really like that, because I feel like that's a different take on what I would, I feel like my instinct, naturally, for wisdom would be about almost emotional intelligence,

or foresight, or seeing. I think that's kind of what I mean. Yeah, but almost like, I feel like that's really Got instinct that's really like a it's almost a body Thing it's like a thoughtful way. I think as well like in a way that's like Acas powers the world's best podcast. Here's a show that we recommend best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hello and tanse. My name is Joel De Moncran. I'm an actor and I'm Indigenous and I've created a podcast called Actors and Ancestors. It's a podcast all about Indigenous actors here on Turtle

Island and our experience in the industry. So if that sounds like something that your ear balls would be happy to listen to, then check out actors and ancestors.com and go to any of your favorite podcast players and we're there. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. everywhere. AKS.com. Trusting your gut. It all plays in. Yeah. Yeah. I just would never have brought in the, I never would have brought in trusting your gut and intuition and stuff. Yeah. Because I really agree with you that I feel like that's almost like, that feels like that's wisdom from my ancestors. That's my grandmother's grandmother's grandmother who gave me that.

Like there's something in my intuition that is magical. But I also think about wisdom in the sense of what we always talk about of like connecting with emotional depth in somebody else from the depth that you've had in yourself. Like there's something I think wisdom to me is like, it's like you said, like built from the experiences that you've had in yourself. Like there's something I think wisdom to me is like, it's like you said, like built from the experiences that you've had.

But to be wise, it's like... It's an interesting adjective, isn't it? I have been called wise my whole life. I see that for you. Thank you. Because you remind me so much of an owl. Yeah, does anyone else see that? I've been intrigued. Because a lot of my friends have called me a weird little

When I look at you I see Twit-Tweet Which is weird because I'm a bit I'm more boba than Kiki looks wise If anyone's picking up what I'm putting down I'm boba I'm not Kiki I'm boba I think I'm more boba as well. But you have the Kiki. Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting one, if you understand that,

you understand it, if you don't, I just can't even begin. Google boba Kiki, you'll get the gist. But to me an owl, they have a pointy little nose. Round face though. Yeah, that spins through 60. And big eyes. I'm an omen, I'm like a creepy little thing. But it's wise.

I'm a little Victorian doll. It's Athena's owl. I'm very wise, yes. It's you. Well, I was raised by all these old people. I don't have anyone my own age. Boring. But they, but like they weren't,

your nana's obviously super wise and stuff. So maybe you got that. Yeah, she's a freak. But yeah. But that's iconic. Yeah. Yeah, she's the best. She is wise.

And you're giving owl. Yeah, she's the best. She is wise. And you are giving out. Thanks. So much. Compliment, but thank you. It's such a compliment. Oh, thanks. So much. I think I am, and it's kind of the thing,

it's why I always say to you guys, like I hope no one's expecting you to take the brunt of things and then just get on with it, because you've been told as a kid, like, oh, you're just wise beyond your years, we feel just so capable, or we just don't have to worry about you. It's like yeah red flag It's like they're putting a lot on that kid and someone has to step in like it ain't right I mean when you're typing in everything will work out into Peter to your parents to your parents to your mom

Who's fucking your life up and her own? Yeah, just fired. Yeah It's Yeah. Chots fired. She's not listening. Um, it's... She's not listening. She's not listening. She's not... She wouldn't get it. Oh, that's fucked up. Does she know about the podcast?

Yeah. That's genuine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Because I wonder what she makes of it.

She thinks, oh my god, thank god, that despite everything I did to that girl, she worked out okay. And I agree with her. Yeah, and so do I. Yeah, I agree with her. I think, yeah. No, thanks to you, not. Yeah, and so do I. Yeah, I agree with her. Yeah, no thanks to you not. Yeah, but thanks, testament. By the skin of my own teeth, not the phrase.

No, not the phrase, but it worked. Not the phrase, but it is exactly what it means. Exactly. Every syllable. But I love the idea of someone's wisdom fulfilling them, because I really, not to sound cocky, but I totally agree with you. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. I also think something about wisdom feels like it's giving security in yourself. Kind of like what you were saying about trusting yourself, trusting your gut instinct, knowing what you know and backing it and then having it affirmed. Like there's something in wisdom in that umbrella term.

I'm getting something, Peter answers. I'm seeing something like, answers, I'm seeing something like, do you know what I mean? I'm getting something in the ether about feeling secure in yourself and like almost, not just confident but like, yeah, secure in your perspective and knowing that you are securing yourself, securing your thoughts, securing your opinions and that you've got yourself. Yeah. You know?

I love that. It's a nice way to be fulfilled. It is. Can't argue with that. And it's not material in any way. It's almost, it's completely down to your own judgment, which is what I love to see someone be fulfilled by. It's not measurable.

And they can't take it from you. Try as they might. No one can tap into your wisdom. No. Like no one can possibly understand your own wisdom. Like you can't prove it to anyone. Spits soul. It's literally so interior.

There's no, there's literally no way of really marking that. What do you think you draw your wisdom from? Literally my insides. Okay. Like it's so internal. I think it is a combination of things that have been passed down from me. And I do completely see it as like a womanly trait.

I think I can look at my maternal line and see so much wisdom there. Can I say something and stop me if you must? But there's something that came from your granny. My granny or my grandma? Your granny. My granny, yeah. And I have been thinking about it, not every day, but it's been coming to me. Oh my God, go on.

About when someone said to her, what do you think is the meaning of life? And she said, I don't know, getting the tea. You gotta do it in the accent. Yeah, which I could never. It's absolutely the most iconic thing in the whole world. My brother just asked her, who was like, so what do you think is the meaning of life?

Is the meaning of life iconic question? Like, just, we were just chilling out, she goes, well I don't know, getting the tea? Getting the tea? Getting the tea? And it's been such an iconic quote, like, it would just be like, we'll say like, oh what are we doing?

And I was like, I don't know, getting the tea? Getting the tea. I don't know, getting the tea? Getting the tea. Oh, didn't you, getting the tea? Does that not just, I'm speechless. It was everything. It's such a hilarious moment. I've said this time and time again, but we are Sefian Wing.

What do you think, we're getting the tea? We are getting the tea and giving the tea. But also so bonded, I think, by these women, these old nuts women. Oh I thought you meant crazy shit that's gone on. And crazy shit yeah but getting the tea is not so crazy. Getting the tea is um, it's the meaning of life apparently. Can I do another? Yeah.

Kind of off the back of that. Someone said it's all about the female friendships. Yes. Fulfilment. Yeah. Which, chef's kiss, never a true word spoken, hey? And you're listening to something that is testament to that, I think.

Aw, are we friends? I think we might be. We fucking better be. We fucking better be. I thought we were fucked. God, could you imagine? I wonder if anyone, I'm sure they do, you guys are clever clogs and whatever.

And also, if you like this, you must like questioning things and maybe even thinking too much, dare I say. Yeah, and almost like getting your head into where it needn't be. It's so hard to find. Kind of just poking around and seeing if there's anything lurking in there.

And I wonder if sometimes, maybe if you guys need a reminder that like, we are very on it in terms of being friends first. Totally. It's a very conscious, proactive choice from us every single day. Well, I think we realized very, very, very, very extremely early on.

What we didn't wanna be. What we didn't wanna be. And also I think we've always had it in the back of our minds. What happens to duos on the internet? What happens to girls in life, especially to the stand right next to each other and talk, saying opinions that is, and also that are coming as best friends. Yeah. I know what happens to those people. Seeing it time and time again.

That's why we have to have our head screwed on. And we do. We do. I really do feel that we do. We definitely do, but I think it's because we've always been so, if we don't, the whole thing does not exist. This whole podcast goes without saying

all of this nonsense that you're listening to does not exist if the foundations are not strong and solid. The whole thing crumbles. So we need to make sure that the friendship is nurtured and watered and taken care of. Honoured. Totally, actually. Honoured. We don't have shit. We literally don't have shit if we don't have that. And neither do you guys if you like this podcast yeah and also I like to think

that like say we did come to some point where the podcast we decided we didn't want to do it anymore which I hope we never really come to or we decide we don't want to the time will be right you'll be begging us to shut up if we ever decide that we won't do it against your will probably yeah I think it'd be dead and buried I'm sure you'll be telling us to sling our hook before we do don't worry we're not leaving on a high. We'll very much overstay our welcome. Yeah but I would like to think that our friendship could continue without this. Oh god I'd like to think that goes without saying. We've never really had it, we've only had a friendship for two months without this. Yeah I guess but... But do you know what I mean? I don't

want us to ever get to the point where it all combusts and it's a fallout and blah blah blah. That's a different story. That's the path. That is literally the path. Yeah but, gosh, Nick and Nancy Stonk. But that is... You're scaring me! Okay so how many duos... Stop it! It's true, it's true. I know, but we're not them. But that's what we need to be prepared for. Stop it! It's true, it's true. I know, but we're not them. But that's what we need to be prepared for. Yes, that's why it's not gonna happen, guys. But I think we can't be naive about it,

because that's when- We are anything but naive, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, Missy, roll your eyes at me for like the 18th time today. I've really rolled my eyes at you a lot today. We've been laughing today, but I feel like I'm just noticing it. Like you do always do it.

It doesn't necessarily make it better. But we're really amping up the bit of you rolling your eyes at me. But I really am, I'm doing it like almost without realizing. I'm just like, oh. And it's almost when I'm being quite sincere and nice to you, you're like, it just makes it funnier. I truly want it.

But I think that's the thing of, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I remember when your sister said to you, you were saying, I just don't want to be an asshole, I just don't want to be arrogant in the cold class blah blah blah. And she was like, well, you're not, so shut the fuck up. What she said was, I was like, I just feel like that thing is quite humbling. Like I think it's good every now and then to be humbled.

I think it was when I was working at the cafe. Oh my God, it was when I was working at the community cafe at home, which was so iconic. I was doing weird things like, for example, going to and touching shoulders with Louis Theroux or just we're at the studio now downstairs getting kissed on the cheeks by fucking Jamie Lang. Those two big hitters.

And then going home and scraping scraps in a sweatshirt with Louis Theroux's face on. Weird fucking life at that moment. And then watching Made in Chelsea all evening with Jamie Lang in, so strange. And I was saying to my sister, I was like, it's good to be humbled actually. Like I think I never ever ever want to be out of touch.

And she was like, you do not need to be humbled. Where have you got this from? You are literally the most. This is what I think is really important, sorry, but I feel so passionately about it. And it's the kind of thing that we were talking about in like, the discomfort that we,

Sefi, Wing and Harry, you, are now speaking directly to you. The discomfort or like imposter syndrome, whatever you wanna call it, the lack of, yeah, how jarring, how confronting it feels to have a moment of confidence or to have something going well. We're so uncomfortable with like being successful

or having a good life or having fun or getting praise or yeah anything good happening to us immediately We need to undermine it undermine it doesn't count discredit It's that I'm comfortable with the version of me that's wearing the ratty sweatshirt scraping scraps into a bit Exactly, I'm so uncomfortable with the idea that my elbow literally touched Louis Theroux's elbow someone I fancied I was invited to 13 both in the VIP section, what do you make of that? I instantly feel the need to be like, someone needs to knock me down. Totally.

Someone needs to knock me down because I don't want to be like out of touch and mad. But it was really one of those moments where she was like, you don't, where has that come from? And it's also, stop saying that. But also it's like, you need to be lifted up. Totally. You are so, you have an opinion of yourself. Totally. You are so, your opinion of yourself. You're scraping scraps every freaking day and night.

Yeah, and it's almost like, why am I only comfortable with the version that is like so scrappy? And like as much as I do think that's so important in life, I do think too, it's important for me to stay in touch with those things. Yeah, don't be an asshole, guys. It really is, and that's why I made the decision to work there because I was like I want to be doing something really real and all of that and helping kids with the homework blah blah all of that is what I need right now awesome, but I

Also think that doesn't mean that you can't be at the Spotify fucking party I'm not to keep yourself small and not feel like someone knocked me down I need to remember where my roots are. It's like, you haven't forgotten your roots, you're still in your fucking roots. You're still scrapping about, yeah. What is this desire? Disclaimer.

It was like, knock me down, fucking tell me, like humble me, it's like, what are you, huh? And that's the thing that I do think it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because it's like if you don't have the balls, I'll say, but whatever, to grow and to boost yourself and to lift yourself up, you will stay small forever. And it's like everyone has taught us

to only be comfortable with who we are when we are small. And there are some interesting, and I personally won't be naming names, but even if we speak in a symbolic sense of the comfort or even love that can come from a relationship where someone has made themselves quite small and had to shrink down and then a few years later, the pandemic ends and they become a superstar once again

and their boyfriend maybe finds that a bit difficult, who knows, but it can be so much easier to be small. Oh, was that Taylor Swift? Could be. I was really struggling to think who that was. Well, I just, you know, I could never, ever name a name like that. Oh, it's Joe Altman.

But, and I think nobody knows if that, look, it's just every, nobody, how dare I? Is his name not a thing that people say anymore? Has that become Voldemort a little bit? Well, I just almost. I don't wanna give him any airtime. No, no, no, bit? Well, I just almost... Do you want to give him any airtime? No, no, no, no. I just almost, I feel like I love, love, love her music

so much, but also I just, she's obviously never gonna hear this, but I just think it's nice to set the etiquette of like, if I was her as a human being, I wouldn't want names being thrown around, almost things that are so sacred. Oh, well, look, I think she's past that point now. I think she's set the precedent very much of these things. Sure, but like I in my life, I'm someone who sees sacred and I

take them so serious. It's sacred, but then I think if it's that sacred, you may be outwriting that many songs about it. I just am not, I can be such a gossip and then certain things I'm like, I can't do, I can't engage in that. Okay, well I'll say Jo well. Okay, well anyway, anyway. You know just when something's the secret text, I can't throw that around.

But I do think it's really important to not undermine ourselves and to not undermine ourselves and to not shrink ourselves and to not tell ourselves these stories of Sefi and Wing is doomed as two girls on the internet and blah blah blah. And also I'm a piece of- It's not doomed, but I think there's a certain way these things do likely pan out. Yeah, but telling ourselves the story constantly. Making passive steps away to not do that. Telling ourselves the story constantly of this thing is really dangerous and women on the internet don't last and they're pit

against each other and the friendships are all fake and blah blah all of these narratives. Of course it is true they're narratives but the more we indulge in them beyond a point it stops being for example wise and starts being self disruptive. Yeah which that's terrible. And I think that is it and I think it leans into that quite often. Well I think it's a fear and it's not something I ever want to happen But I also think we have been smart with it because we know 100% Like not dummies. I mean I'm struggling to think of really any

Instances where that hasn't happened. So I think that does lead me to believe using my wisdom using everything That something that I want to avoid and want to make active steps towards. So that's why I prioritize communication so much. Because I, we totally do. And that's why we do. Because if you don't have that, you have nothing. You have absolutely, all of this is cherry on top. Totally. It totally is. Yeah, it totally is. And it's the sweetest cherry I've ever known. It's a shimmering, glacia cherry. Wow. Yummy. Dunked into the finest syrup. Wow. Alright. Okay, is that an episode? I really liked that. Yeah. Okay me too. Yeah that was good. Yeah I did actually really enjoy that episode? I really liked that, yeah. Okay, me too, yeah, that was good.

Yeah, I did actually really enjoy that. Guys, I'm gonna be on it. Oh, hey, it's Freya. Oh, hi, it's Freya, hello. No, no, it's perfect. We were just ending that one. Are you just finished? Have we allowed your voice on here or is that a problem?

Well, let me spin the light, just say hi. Hello. Yeah. Okay, perfect. So, for our second guest. Our second guest. And who's our first, nobody knows. Oh, wow. Stay tuned. And subscribe to our second get. Our second get. And who's our first? Nobody knows.

Stay tuned and subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sefi and Ming. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. Okay, so that is... So that's happened. Yeah. Okay, so it comes out 1st of July. Be there on the YouTube. YouTube.

It's in our bio. The link is in our bio on Instagram now, as of today. I need to do that. As a fan girlie, I can't believe I'm a fan. It's fun, isn't it? We've been really in it. It was a really nice one, I thought. Really good app.

Yeah, really good app. Sefi was just about to say something. Do you want to take it fan girlie, I can't believe I'm doing that. It's fun, isn't it? We've been really in it. It was a really nice one, I thought. Really good app, yeah, really good app. Stephanie was just about to say something. Do you wanna take it away? Yeah, I've really enjoyed this and I'm not gonna lie, I haven't really been enjoying the episodes recently. I was saying to Wing, I was like,

I think I just need a break, blah, blah, blah, but fuck it, we're going into like 1st of July, we're doing what, every day shit. Every day in July, oh, what have we done? Because I just haven't been enjoying them recently. Like I think of the last 10, I feel like I've just been a bit, I haven't been happy with what have we done? Because I just haven't been enjoying them recently. Like I think in the last 10, I feel like I've just been a bit, I haven't been happy with what I've-

Self-conscious. Yeah, I don't know. But that one I just felt really comfortable in. So I really liked that, yeah. Good, I think as well, like you have had loads of moments in loads of the episodes that we've done recently where you felt really good. But then I also think then the self-consciousness comes in

and washes over everything and just makes it, it's all so murky. And it's also, it's kind of, oh my God, you've tied us straight back to the beginning of the thing that we were saying about sometimes it's impossible to separate the intention and the setting that something was made in from the like output, from the result.

And it's literally the classic thing and what we were saying at the beginning of you can go into an exam and think you did shit and then come out and everybody loved it. You're a star You never know or think you did a horrible episode and then go to edit it and be like this is Hello, or the thing that's crazy Is that thinking you did a terrible episode and then you go and see loads of messages and it's like, oh, okay So it was worthwhile even if I don't see that it helped loads of people Yeah, and that's different and different and there is a difference between recording

something when you shouldn't and like giving something that you never needed to give and not prioritizing yourself versus just being a bit self-critical or being a bit of whatever it could be making you feel negative in the space when you do it and then coming away and being like no it's fine. Yeah. All right. Cool. Well I like that. Stunning. If you don't hear from us assume the worst. That's from me within an audience. Should we just quickly do the intro? Yeah. Is that still recording for her can you say?