Goes Without Saying - jealousy, obsession & competition: podmas #10

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

on the 10th day of podmas sephy & wing gave to me... personal confessions on jealousy. join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukcome and chat in our book club.speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com On the 10th day of progress, a few women gave to me a conversation on jealousy. Do you know what I was actually thinking we should do at the final episode we should do

the like a conversation on veganism then a bit of jealousy that is the best idea you've ever had that is so good consistency love it perfect oh my god that's so good i can't wait we should do one we should really record a song and auto-tune it out that's the christmas that's the final advent that plays at the end that's just like the final piece that's the masterpiece you've been wondering what this is all for guys what's this building towards what's this yeah an auto-tune song amazing fighting with your family conflict at christmas grief and reclaiming crying all the time it would be so great i know we're saying all the time but how fun has this been oh my god we were actually on the phone earlier we can't we can't get enough of each other you

think we'd have enough of each other by this point well actually what happened was i will actually say this i had the most horrific dream of all time like actually it was really horrible where sephi and i had the most horrific argument we actually described it as um the bit deathly hallows where this is so bad what an awful start to a podcast i was describing the bit deathly hallows where this is so bad what an awful start to a podcast i was describing it as deathly hallows where ron seeing harry and himani like kiss and like he's like oh my god like this can't be real it was just horrible it was basically sephie saying all of the my insecurities to me oh my god in the worst way it was just so horrible like she was like you're nothing like she was like also i was at a wedding and she wouldn't go like she i was just there i was like i need to get ready like i'm they're getting married right now

i was ruining the wedding day she always honestly classic sephie honestly it is so classic i object making it all about me at the wedding day yeah honestly it was so horrible also that apparently you were on a tube and i was saying we need to record now yeah we were recording on the tube that's how dedicated i am to podmas it's just horrific you're just you don't bring anything to this you're nothing i'm gonna do it without you and i was like oh my god how it was like oh my god i thought we were having a good time not a problem you can't do this now do you know what's so sad about it what i hate is that now there's a version of me in your head that's like said all this nasty stuff i know and i hate that i have brought that to us

in the real world do you know what i mean but also like you need to know that all of the things that i said in the dream i actually think the opposite yeah and i think i said to you on the phone earlier i would rather eat my own shit than start my own podcast also i don't really fear you starting your own podcast but i my fear is like god i'm dragging the team down like i almost think if you just do whenever you do your own thing i i celebrate it quite proudly 100 you do but also you thinking i don't think you're worth it shouldn't do this with her yeah she doesn't bring anything no she's no good i think you're um a worthy piece of diamond me too a piece of diamond piece of

diamond no but diamonds with an s piece of diamonds a piece of diamonds amazing with a tiny bit of shit in it yeah always i mean so that wasn't a great start to the day was it it wasn't but oh let the bells ring i'm gonna leave it here i'm gonna leave it yeah yeah that was a joke i made earlier i said the doorbell rang and i said let the bells ring i thought it was quite funny but now i'm talking to myself because she's getting the door. What's quite funny is I can hear you talking to yourself. I know. What I also thought,

is this a little thing that she's going to get when she's editing? Or is she going to get it now? What have you got? I'm such a Christmas elf. What did you get? What could be more festive than Christmas presents being delivered on Podmas?

On Podmas. Just a load of shit, but anyway that's really fun i think my someone might knock on the door soon oh great well my brother just got in the shower and he said if the door rings actually we don't have a doorbell if someone knocks on the door get it i was like but i'm recording and i heard the door in my face amazing we didn't know we were going to do one on jealousy did we no it wasn't on our initial list but then we reformed on our christmas list yeah we had to make some amendments because there were some things that weren't on the table to talk about like what oh sex

it's not that i didn't want to talk about it at the moment she can't anything i'm doing i can't talk about no i know i think it's just i didn't want to this guy to leave my house and then in the morning there's a podcast called sex and exploitation i thought that's a bit much i think it was sex dating and exploitation was my initial i just think like you can't leave my house and then i was like oh what she uploaded what it's like you're listening oh my god so i thought i can't do that to him hi poor old jake gyllenhaal name drop that would be iconic if it actually was gyllenhaal and you were probably it would be iconic it's not actual jake gyllenhaal all too well right ready jealousy let's really get into this so deep yeah take it away right right how

do you start i challenge you okay i was thinking earlier when i was thinking about jealousy because i was thinking okay we're gonna record on jealousy and i thought i think i get a bit sick in the head with jealousy you get sick in the head with jealousy confession well i think when i'm jealous i think jealousy is one of the most consuming things i couldn't agree more i actually was thinking this the other day a mere few days ago i think it's when we maybe decided we're going to talk about jealousy i was thinking there are top two worst emotions in this life number one jealousy is yeah absolutely like the most do you know what it's got an embarrassment to it as well it's just awful

there's so much shame around it and when i feel jealous i feel sick sick to the head you're so right yeah i feel sick in the head the other one is loneliness i think when i feel lonely i just want to die i hate it the problem is as well when you feel lonely you end up getting jealous and then when you're jealous it makes you lonely and there's nothing isolating like jealousy no exactly yeah oh jealousy it's so bleak i also think in my experience as like a young girl growing up i feel like jealousy was one of the most formative like experiences. Like a lot of my teenage life. Was spent jealous.

Was spent jealous and even like talking about jealousy and like. Talking about jealousy. I feel like that's one of the things that was not acceptable back in the day. No, but I almost think girls being horrible to each other is all obviously rooted in jealousy. I think everything we do as teenage girls, it's just there's so much patriarchy just festering in our veins. Oozing out of every pore. Yeah, yeah. It's rank.

Are you feeling jealous at the moment? Let me think. Do you know what I... What's that look like in your modern life? Well, I'm actually having a bit of a... I'm having Christmas off Instagram in my mind. I'm like, right, I'm not going on Instagram at the moment. And I think I was saying to you before, because you were like, why are you doing that?

And I was like, I don't feel insecure at the moment, but I feel like I have the potential to be quite insecure at the moment, just in my transitional phase of my life. And I think Instagram makes me feel really jealous. I mean, I have a shit ton of body image issues I'm utterly fucked up about weight and all of this stuff I think I I really struggle to look at a skinny fucking girl in a bikini that's something that I just don't think it's just not an easy experience for me at all and Instagram unfortunately is um the world of skinny girls in bikinis I thought it was interesting when you said that in the one we were talking about influencers as well like the ways that we engage with social media because i feel like i view instagram as the place of like it's just it's just funny like the

different it's basically what you're triggered by exactly yeah it's like yeah if you um kind of hate spiders it's like oh god i see spiders every day like and that is a real thing like you become hyper vigilant to the things that you are essentially afraid of or like the things that you feel harm you yeah and it's also kind of this masochistic thing that especially on social media with jealousy it is very addictive and very like you kind of get addicted to the pain in a kind of self-harmy way of like i need to like i just want to see it like but it doesn't make it i don't want to see it no i know but then i think it's bad to not want to see something because it triggers you yeah well it's pointing at a larger problem of what's triggering

it's like maybe you should be able to see this and be okay with it hence why my therapist was like get back on instagram yeah so you are kind of rejecting her wishes which is why i just don't earlier i laughed oh my god you're so right i mean you're in your right to do whatever you want but earlier i laughed when you said i said i'm not going to be on instagram and you said why are you doing that as if like i interrogate you which i maybe kind of do i think it's needed yeah i think occasional interrogation just self-reflection because also it's a ridiculous thing like because i half have problems with instagram and i half love instagram as well like i love i don't think that's ridiculous so i think it's a lie i think that's the sad bit because

i cut myself off from so i've basically been like to you send me anything nice anyone says blah blah it's like i cut myself off from really amazing experiences out because of basically body dysmorphia and i find that really sad so basically i really want to be able to not be jealous as fucking mental on instagram um because i i end up cutting off really amazing experiences and like seeing all these amazing stuff that people have said and seeing everyone but it's also a process it is i'm just trying to work towards it but i don't want to be sad over podmas it's just not that it's not for me we're really holding it together pretty well i would say oh my god we're holding it together well i'm not actually shocked about

us no i know it's iconic when do you feel jealous well what's funny is i was thinking as well i find it really interesting for me personally when i'm sick in the head i feel like i'm towing the line of jealousy and like almost infatuation oh okay like i feel like because it's so consuming when i see something i like it's quite libra of me i can't resist it like i am i i think i get quite drawn in by things by beauty and quite alluring and it really becomes almost like top of the agenda like it the i it bumps right up to the priorities it's kind of examining it when sometimes when i really like for example you just showed me a nice coat if i saw you on instagram didn't know you whatever yeah that she's getting by the way i can't wait if you want to get this discount quickly

yes go on share it it was a coat i was gonna get for 75 pounds sponsored by honey not sponsored by honey i did that little honey code thing and i was like right this never really takes anything off it did 75 pound coat i'm getting it for 55 pounds she's buzzing how much more money is 75 than 55 it was well we were saying 75 is basically 100 55 could kind of be 30 if you squinted a little bit and that's math it's iconic it's pure science we're really proud of that maths as well 75 is as well no you're so right i agree with you but anyway go on yeah if i see something that i think is beautiful admirable i find it sometimes quite hard to like admire it in a healthy way oh yeah no i get that like i find it quite hard to keep my distance from things that i admire like think are beautiful think i would want for myself like it doesn't take much for me

to really slip into the spiral of and i guess it's because generally in life it doesn't take much to knock me over into the depths of hell all of a sudden the tightrope that i'm on oh look once again i'm in the pits like i'm caught i'm good the gust of wind away from being down there but i feel like it doesn't take much for me to slip into oh yeah like she's lovely into like oh my god i need to ditch my whole life and personality and become somebody else because that's how i validate myself yeah that's not fun it's not fun that's really it's not great fun i'm not having a blast no i think that's why jealousy is so bad because it essentially is self-hatred and like self-betrayal that you have seen some equality in someone else whether it be

literally fucking a coat they have or a flat stomach that they have or a life that they have or fucking eyeliner that they have whatever that you want and you've basically called yourself shit 10 times over that you're so willing to betray yourself and just like ditch every single thing that you spent the last like yeah how many years of your life building and just be like i'll just be them then i'll just become them everything about me is shit everything about them is great i'll just be that and i'll be happy i think it's um it's kind of the thing of the sooner for me personally i can accept to like deal with what i've got rather than try and force myself into something that is just never going to happen try and shape myself into a different person so the sooner i can get over that the sooner i can start maybe enjoying my life but i also think i do think there's a part of it that

even as young girls and just across society i don't think we're really taught or shown how to like admire and like show our appreciation for things i think so much of it is rooted in insecurity when like we even see this across friendships if someone even if you love somebody and they've got something good going for them i think sometimes we really find it hard to celebrate other people's wins because we are so insecure and fragile we're told that it's a threat it's a personal loss somebody else winning means you're a fucking loser mate yeah i think that's exactly it i mean that also with we've spoken about so many times but like women's friendship there's so much competition like i mean as i've said that i'm watching made in chelsea at the moment the

most fascinating kind of social study i've ever looked at in my fucking life the way that these women act towards each other i mean the men act crazy to each other as well but the way that the women act feels personally like they're running a fucking race like tearing each other down like it is absolutely crazy it's like and these people are friends these people like a lot of them went to school together and they i mean especially when there's like a man like a competition towards a man and there's a jealousy like this person i had sex with that person and now they're kissing that person what the hell the jealousy that comes in there and how they tear each other down is like it's scary it's almost like it's life or death i think it is made to feel like that and i think yeah as little girls we are kind of made to feel like there's like very limited resources of a way to live do you know

i mean like almost to protect your own safety like it's kind of a capitalist thing yeah it's a patriarchal thing that it's like i think a lot of people feel encouraged to do whatever they have to do and throw anyone under the bus to um kind of persevere in life yeah almost like there's a part of that so far from thriving yeah there's a part of that so far from thriving yeah there's a part of that that feels quite like is it just like a darwinistic impulse that's like left over of like you we would always compete to get kind of the best mate that's like what's sad is it's it's within your tribe like yeah yeah we are but is that not what it was like back is that not an

evolutionary thing that you would compete to get that but biologically it's like well you have your peers you have your tribe it's like we are a team like we are relying on each other we're better when we're like unified like we might have a leader but like we're all coming together like seffy's doing the gathering i'm doing the hunting do you know i mean like we're all i've got the good deal there she's foraging and i'm like a teacher i'm being held at knife she's fighting for my dinner and that we don't see that like so often it's like you're going against your own loved ones it's like yeah yeah you see like for example people are made in chelsea with this like extended history with each other and there should be such a shared like communal bond and love for each other but far from gust of wind in there not even a gust of wind it's a lovely summer's day and they're

going at each other it's crazy that show is crazy but i think as well you've definitely heard the thing of like people being like oh you know what i think actually we do really well yeah go on for example compliments to the chef i think it's like we don't hesitate yeah we don't hesitate to almost quite lavish one another in compliments and i want you to feel i genuinely want you to feel very loved and secure and like aware of your own amazing qualities because you have them in abundance and it's just a waste of time because you have them in abundance and it's just a waste of time if you're not gonna see it it's sad for all of us we all lose when sephie's not feeling her best we all lose out it's a collective yeah i couldn't believe that

more wholeheartedly and i think across some friendships and just even just at some phases in my life like i think it's something that we that a lot of people have experienced is feeling like almost a scarcity around compliments and like not wanting you never feel like someone doesn't want you to feel good or like they don't want you to get too big for your boots sort of thing when you're almost trying on a part like a dress for a party with your friends and one of them's like that one yeah wear that one that wear that one and you know it's the uglier one it's like oh like kind of i mean this is a thing from like way when i was younger but almost happened yeah 100 charles i'm recording so sorry no it's fine it's fine you're on the podcast now though do you want to say anything he said oh no no no no no no there's your one chance he said unless i can make money

off of it unless i'm getting paid for a feature. Got anything burning to say? Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.

Here's a show that we recommend. In the early 1980s, gay men started to get sick from AIDS. Years before ACT UP, before HIV was discovered, before the history you know, there were people on the front lines of the fight against AIDS. Joe Sonnabin. Michael Callen. Bobby Campbell. I'm Dane Stewart, and in the new season of my podcast, Resurrection, I tell the stories of heroes of the early AIDS movement.

Like the story of a cabaret singer and a sex worker who invented safe sex and saved millions and millions and millions of lives. Go check out Resurrection wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com Yeah, no, definitely that's happened. Do you not remember shopping trips with your gal pals at school? That's evil.

That looks so good. And it's's like i know that looks so bad and like or like when you don't trust someone's opinion have you not ever had that before and you know they're trying to sabotage you i even joke about that with my friends now that like when i'm like that looks really good and they think it looks shit they're like are you being a saboteur yeah i mean i do say that but i think i say it more as a joke i've a hundred percent had it where i know that someone is trying to sabotage me have you ever thought i'm trying to sabotage you no never oh my god i really i just want to make it clear i would worst saboteur of all time you're stunning you're stunning i also thought earlier this is not relevant but earlier i'd sent you a

text i can't remember what it said like hey probably morning loads of that's how you usually start the day you send me a text saying morning sun sunrise sunrise sunrise when i normally send you what i've realized earlier is i always send you um like a bouquet of flowers emoji yeah always i always get a bouquet from you that is kind of like i'm being like oh i'm not even hit like it's not even a text it's just a little bunch of flowers for you like don't mind me i get the bouquet and like the kind of um the swirl sparkle thing of like magic um kind of shooting star yeah i almost it's like magic magic yeah it's true it's really nice also we're planning to go to paris soon oh my god as a congratulations on the podcast yeah um just a

well done we're in a completely different spot than we were in last fucking year now we could go on holiday together how iconic would that be by the way it would be iconic you sent me in a lovely collection of emojis i sent you some croissant some yeah which made me feel really good yeah yeah same and then you sent and then you even said i've just spent ages carefully choosing these emojis and it's a collection of about 10 emojis they were so stunning to yeah same and then you sent and then you even said i've just spent ages carefully choosing curating them and there's a collection of like 10 emojis they were so stunning to symbolize parrots it was quite a work of art it really was it was a whole piece it's like a narrative in those 10 yeah but i think what's good about our relationship when i'm not having dreams about you shouting at

me i was gonna say it's like this is so ridiculous it's all underpinned by my fear of you it's like the fact i was literally saying to you you're worthless last night like you bring nothing to the table and i was like but podmas i hate that that's come out of my fictional mouth i know i know it's like fucking put that thing back where it came from it from so help me but i think what's really good for us is we do i think make a real effort to like make the other person feel good and it comes from a real genuine place but i also think i don't want anyone to feel evil like i actually think as horrible it's an evil emotion it is evil but it's like you're not evil for feeling jealous or like a bit resentful towards someone close to you like you are just human and like you're not evil because you thought fucking bitch she doesn't deserve that i need to

get do you know i mean you're just you're just human is that not one of the most normal things of all time like i definitely think when i would feel jealous i it like it comes immediately with a resentment oh my god immediately like i feel jealous i feel like and then it's like oh fuck that fucking bitch yeah yeah it's so bad and then and then comes the hatred of the self how dare i feel like things here they come flooding what a piece of shit does feel like that it's so fucked i also remember seeing a thing back in the day that was like if you feel this emotion this is what you need if you feel this emotion this is what you need and i think the one that was like jealousy was like what you need is to show yourself fucking obvious show yourself

some fucking love because basically when you feel jealous you're feeling self-hatred yeah and you're basically yeah as i was saying earlier willing to just betray yourself completely and just become someone else i think basically when you feel jealous when you feel like that sinking feeling of like i feel fucking so jealous right now it's like do something that you like do something really personal to you that you like just to honor yourself rather than but how hard is that because when you're in that moment it's like well i'm not in the mood to do something nice like what even is that like that whole world like that whole terminology just feels so foreign in that in when you're feeling you know when you're feeling shit and it's like you know in theory what you need is just take some time out like address your needs like eat

something get some rest like take care of yourself and just take some space and all of those things but it's like well it's hard when you're in it to give yourself that room but i think that's the that's what i'm trying to train myself to do anyway is actually be really um honest with myself in those moments like one of the now i've finished my therapy load of shit um they're amazing shit diamonds in fact um one of the things was like what how are you going to continue this blah blah blah and it was like when you feel the feeling of like when i'm triggered it would be like a panicked feeling of all of this stuff and like a sink and a sinking kind of stomach which i think is so similar to like that jealous feeling of like it's very like in your body almost like that's your cue like you

know now that you're feeling the thing and when you feel that feeling it's not a chance to go in on the thought it's a chance to take care of your body and just be like right you're gonna have a bath you're gonna lie down you're gonna like meditate get out of here yeah i think i'm really even though it's like the last fucking thing on earth i want to do right now is like have a square of chocolate because in my sick mind you can't have that yeah looping saying it helps it helps trust me make you feel better it does help you know i think as well what a nice thing could be is i actually have seen i know lots of people listen to this podcast and they know their friends also listen to this podcast and what might be quite nice i

don't know if you guys know each other like that but even if they don't listen to it basically if you have someone in your life who kind of feels like a bit of a safe person where you can kind of speak to them like on a certain level and you know each other get it. I know I could ring you, Sefi, at any time and be like, oh my god, like I'm fucking jealous. Like I'm in this thing. Yeah. And you would help me get out of it. And I would demand you of your time and you would give it to me quite freely, I think. But I think it might be quite good to have like someone else's perspective there just to remind you that there's a bigger life out there than just like the little evil person in your mind because i think sometimes the voice in your head is so loud that it's like well

you just need sephi to drown it out like and if you have someone in your life that you can ring and be like or just text them and be like what's going on in your day i think just get yourself out of your head and into a conversation with someone that you love and if that isn't available to you the podcast is always here it's always here i also talking shit every day it's a matter of perspective hugely i think jealousy like it's because you've fixated on this one thought this one fucking thing that you don't like um and you've gone in in in in on it what you need to do is you need to get out out out usually out of the fucking house like the worst thing you can do i think is lie in your bed or even like watching tv sometimes it's like it's not actually helpful because you're just in your mind i do think getting outside and like

seeing that life is going on interact with someone yeah i actually think is one of the best things you can do you need to just get out of the thought and like out into the world i agree get it away from you or into a shitty little podmas podcast 100 you're always welcome here guys oh you are podmas will always be here to welcome you home always after all this time always always i'm gonna be sick um well that was lovely i've really liked this one i think it's been one of my faves that's good yeah i think so all right amazing i don't really know why i've like i've liked i think it's been one of my faves that's good yeah i think so all right amazing i don't really know why i'd like i've liked i think i would have really enjoyed this conversation if i was going through like a jealous period and i think christmas is the time of jealousy so true it's the giving

each other the gift of jealousy and hatred i think as well just the crux is you're not evil and you to be honest you're probably fine as you are just definitely you're completely a perfect being i just know it couldn't be more sure of anything in my whole life yeah that like you're not evil for feeling jealous because no everyone and you don't need what they have no because also the cracks as well as someone's looking at you thinking fucking bitch why can't i just have what she has blah blah blah blah and the person that you're jealous of is feeling the same thing exactly there's no one that's exempt from it what's in their head they said well that was very festive see you tomorrow congratulations on the pod congratulations on the pod Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment.

And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet.