Goes Without Saying - learning self-acceptance: this barbie has Imposter Syndrome!

Episode Date: June 1, 2023

behind every Hot Girl is a long history of Imposter Syndrome...join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukspeak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is an episode about imposter syndrome.

So it's pretty weird. I'm just putting you as there's a little warning there disclaimer but i think it's perfect if you're feeling like you don't know where you're going in life you feel like maybe you're not cut out for certain experiences you're not good enough all of the shit that we always feel in life so i hope you enjoy it no promises that it makes any sense i think it's good so self-deprecating here we go such an imposter oh wow again back again thank god thank god what a pleasure to be here i'm excited for this one yes such a pleasure and we could talk about this for hours i think imposter syndrome i was just trying to rack my brains just in that split second when we were saying three two one go take one is what we say

before almost take off launch yeah yeah i was just trying to rack my brains and i was like imposter syndrome imposter syndrome like what does that mean to you right now and i was like gosh you're actually feeling so impostery like this is a perfect time for you exactly yeah well i was gonna say straight off the bat i feel like imposter syndrome for me at least is the kind of thing where when i'm really struggling with imposter syndrome i don't feel like i'm struggling with imposter syndrome i feel like i'm just knowing that i'm shit yeah no exactly i think that is the tricky thing about it is it's not something that you notice at the time you almost notice it in hindsight like oh that was imposter syndrome because you kind of need to come out of it to recognize it because it's like it just feels like any old

insecurity shit feeling i.e it feels like the truth when you're feeling it yeah yeah it's imposter syndrome which makes it quite nice it does yeah makes it almost quite oh i'm succeeding am i it's almost like i don't agree you think i'm succeeding like the success that i am exactly yeah yeah which you so obviously are so if you're so successful someone may say on that that was from our last um what do i want to ask you here is there anything you don't need to ask me anything well but i could just start with saying like what's your relationship to imposter syndrome right now like not like when have you felt it in your life but like right now in the spot that you're in now what are you feeling like you know you're doing well do you

how are you feeling about it within yourself i am in a good place as i've been saying hopefully i'll still be in a good place by the time you're listening yeah um i hope so and kind of off the back of the last episode we just recorded about nepo babies i was talking about how proud i am that obviously i've had certain degrees of privilege in my life but largely coming from even just say i think someone to come from let's even wash it down to just a working class background to then end up doing something creative i think is really special and there's a lot of other shit that's gone on that makes it even more special but i on that note and on the note that i'm feeling so

good at the moment just mentally like i'm in a good brain time which is not something i've ever really known i just feel so proud of myself every day divine which is a bit much i think no it's not um well it's a bit unusual for me i think i should as well i feel it i really feel it i feel i'm i think two things are kind of feeding into that the first being kind of the clarity around seeing you know how bad the brain times have been and that i'm just proud that i'm still here the fact that i've done anything i think is impressive to me personally now that i can see the reality of what that was it wasn't just me being dramatic it's like no exactly could have gone could have gone pretty badly we've been in the pits and i don't it's not hyperbole

when we say assume the worst like i've been meaning it every word absolutely so i'm proud in that sense and then also kind of in what i just mentioned about the fact that i think it's special to be able to do something creative and like really work for it and like do something embarrassing really commit to it and do something a bit unexpected despite some odds i think that's really special and then the last kind of and i think the biggest kind of crux my overriding sense of what i feel like is really pulling me through any impostering and it's just kind of really bringing me to a nice place is the idea that like i get to do something first of all with you that's so fun but the fact that we get to enjoy a life right

now you know who knows what the rest of our lives will entail but it's so deeply fulfilling like on like a real life purpose level to have meant anything to anybody really in like an emotional sense and like given anyone like a little giggle or like a deep sense of connection in a moment where they really needed it I think via the podcast and via the listeners I'm feeling so fulfilled and like proud of that connection I think it's something I always would have wanted and just felt so out of reach and so kind of ridiculous and it's just so fulfilling to know that like we can pop into people's lives and hopefully like make them feel a little bit good for half an hour or something it's just so so special and i just feel really

aware of that at the moment and my tendency i think has been to always kind of undermine myself in that and i still do and kind of just immediately take the mental crusher to it and like redact it all discount it all like it can't be real they don't actually like you like oh no they like it but they don't like you like you're the weak link you're whatever um the inner monologue's mental i'm sure we'll get into it yeah funny that we have the same voice in there it's almost like yeah bizarre we have a shared voice who is it yeah um at the moment i'm just really feeling so proud and good and just yeah a lot of love going on it feels really nice as well to just feel a bit free from the brain and i would say like to anyone who

suffers from the bad brain to really like catch the moments where you get five minutes of hopefully happiness but just something else if you ever get little breaks or like the moments in between the shittiness the moment where this man's voice or whoever it is shuts up in your brain who's telling you all these horrible things if there are ever any moments where that's dying down and you're feeling a little bit lighter hold on to it and like really make the most of it because you deserve it absolutely that's how i'm starting the episode i guess i think it's so nice i think it's really nice to see you in this kind of prolonged good stage me too yeah i feel the same very nice i do feel the same thank you well i also think it's nice of you to say that

because as we were previously saying i do think it's sometimes hard for people who get used to seeing you holding yourself back or not doing things or like not feeling good or speaking badly about yourself it's nice to it's nice for you to say that you're happy to see it and i know you are happy to see it but also you know such is life i am 100 what's your relationship right now with imposter syndrome i think i'm really feeling it at the moment you're feeling the imposter i don't think it's something who are you who the fuck is that literally who the fuck is that who the fuck is that i don't think it's something that i'm that used to either i don't think i'm very impostery in my life i don't think so do you think we've switched a bit basically i've no i don't think we've switched i definitely don't think i'm very impostory in my life i don't think so do you think we've switched

a bit basically i've no i don't think we've switched i definitely don't think we've switched like i don't it doesn't have to work like that it's like i'm in my getaway no we could like i think one can live while the other yeah no it doesn't have to be that but it i definitely think at the moment i'm feeling pretty much all of the things that you just said. I'm the weak link. I'm not. This isn't going to work for you. Like this isn't like almost this isn't meant for you. Like you're a piece of shit essentially.

Like you're not good enough for it. Yeah. All of that is happening. And I think that's a certain amount of that is inevitable as something that has been like your small little baby in the palm of your hand has been growing and growing and then it's like a sense of it's bigger than us it's now kind of genera's dragons it could set us alight at any yeah and then it's like oh am i sure you want me on your back am i still your mother of dragons yeah yeah exactly yeah am i still your mother of dragons yeah i don't know you're my mother of dragons for sure you're mine as well

oh good um yeah i don't know so i definitely think i'm feeling it a lot at the moment which is really shit like i don't like it because you're so right it doesn't feel like okay so what i'm having is imposter syndrome it feels like i'm a piece of shit blah blah blah blah you're not good enough it feels like all of that which really isn't very nice but i think i've had a bit of a lot like not a long period like it's probably been two weeks now where i've had a bit of a i've just been quite insecure for about two weeks now like in and out of it but i don't know i was on holiday i was in lisbon and i felt good the whole time but like there was i remember speaking we were supposed to record and we didn't record that week because i'm just not feeling like I can get in front of a microphone right now.

The thing is, you didn't even say that. I had to tell you, you don't look like a girl who can get in front of a microphone right now. And that's the thing is, you didn't even see me. That was just from my voice, you knew. No, yeah, well, I just and I felt bad because I was like, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. But I think I think you need someone to step in and like give you permission to step away. And I almost think you were so lacking in confidence that you didn't even have the confidence to say, I'm not feeling good.

Yeah. I think I was just going to be like, I can do it, I can do it. And then probably burst into tears and all of that. Well, funny you should say that. Cause I was going to say, what are your, do you have any like behaviors and stuff or like tendencies that you feel like you slip into? Like when we were just talking about the imposter syndrome- the voices that we get the voices yeah never a good sign um i definitely slip between like feeling like i can't i have a real as i've said the perfectionist

angle of like there's no point in doing anything because unless it's perfect it's a complete flop you are yeah you're worthless so don't bother like you need to avoid avoid avoid at all costs or and i was talking to that was that was my mum absolutely slamming the door coming in our door's like about to fall off its hinges it's like and it has been for probably five months ten years um yeah no probably about ten years but like five months it's like on on its last like if a door has i think it has like four hinges it's only like the last one half and what the fuck someone's gonna break in well no no it does lock like it closes but like every time you've got to close it you've got to really slam it but it's one of those things

where we keep being like we should get this fixed before it's an emergency before it comes off the hinges and it's like right needs to happen today but it's like god i this fixed before it's an emergency before it comes off the hinges and it's like right needs to happen today but it's like god i don't know it's like how much does it cost to get a new door it's not today it's like thousands of pounds for a door is it i don't know they're a lot like we've got a pretty can't you just get the hinges fixed no like the whole door needs replacing i don't know but like i think a door is quite expensive like a front door i can imagine yeah ours is pretty shit front door but like you get think a door is quite expensive. Like a front door. I can imagine. Yeah. Ours is pretty shit. But like.

You could get like a plasticky one. It is plasticky. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's the plasticky one with like a bit of glass. A little bit of panel in it. Yeah. Yeah.

It's, that's real like British suburbia to me. It's that. That classic door. You know. Anyway. You know a nice house when it has a wooden door that's like a colour. An older wooden door. It's like a navy blue door. divine divine gold bra with a knocker on it wow

oh wow wow we love that um yeah and then i was also talking to my therapist about sorry just going back um about the tendencies that we have like when we feel shit and blah blah blah and i swing between avoidance and feeling like you know in order to be perfect and in order to be like a just human like in order to be valid i need to massively overwork myself so that to be honest like no one could look at sephian wing and pick out a weak link because we make sure i think that it really is the product of us and we contribute so much and when i'm feeling impostery i have the fear i have dreams about you being like why have you done that wrong blah blah blah and i think this sacred thing is one of the ways that i play out certain things of like making sure oh i

need to come up with the episodes i need to send her the right thing or like oh the title like blah blah blah or just any of the shit i end up kind of trying to almost overcompensate and like becoming hyper vigilant to the threats you kind of because i imagine you know like the fear is being exposed to someone who isn't good enough yeah when you're already doing enough then you take it to the next level and it's like you go a bit it's a bit it's a little much it's a little much we keep referencing that in episodes and like i can't even explain to you what that is but it's a little it's just funny like maybe one day you'll know but like if it all goes well maybe one day you'll know let's say that wise words from a special someone anyway um yeah do you have any tendencies that you

go to yes i have so many reveal i have a real tendency to get single lady reveal yourself here we go i'm coming down the whatever it is you're coming down the tube the little sheets they come out of my name's Sethi and I'm from Oxfordshire oh my light's going straight on oh yeah well thank you um we saw Paddy McGuinness the other day if anyone's from England they'll know what that reference was if you're not from England that was a reference for a show called Take Me Out I don't know if that is has made it out of England definitely we can definitely leave it there I think but we saw paddy mcginnis you don't need to do some digging we did yeah he was looking well he didn't he looked better than he does on tv didn't he no he looked so clean he looked fresh out of the shower did you get that one yeah he did he was glowing actually

he's thriving you heard it from us guys paddy mcginnis he's glowing he's absolutely glowing he's a glowing girl boss he's absolutely radiant honestly he did look so clean he looked like he would smell really fresh which isn't the vibe i get from paddy mcginnis oh ouch well it's not a vibe that i would you know it's not something that comes to my mind very often about anyone i think he just gives me the vibe of like oh he's an everyday bloke he'd be down the pub he'd be like sure like almost you'd share a cigarette with him sort of thing it's paddy mcginnis he's just like your neighbor paddy mcginnis yeah no likey no likey no likey no likey but he almost gave me like what's his name zane low radiance his name zane low oh god wow

wow i mean that's another league yeah okay he almost gave me that energy it's like god paddy well that's a big compliment no no it really is it really is but anyway we saw paddy mcgunness at a meeting which was quite a crazy moment and we also saw greg james it's like greg james he was looking clean as he looked great he was looking so radiant we almost had a bit of um a fight over him at the table a cat fight well i said god greg james looks quite well he's almost quite good looking like is that a thing and you were like he's notably good looking i like him he's mine i don't really like james he's not like one of my go-to people but the snatching of the microphone i think it was like no he's established as an attractive desirable man i didn't know that i thought he was again i thought he was everyday man i thought like you know i'm not to say he's

not good looking but i just thought it wasn't of no like i didn't know he was known for being a looker i think he's noticeable but also i'm not gonna fight for greg james like i would probably at this rate at this point i'd probably fight over paddy mcginney as well which oh it sounds like yeah yeah a bit of a plot twist i didn't see coming yeah including me and including paddy but also somehow could be in the audition room for dwight shrew 100 in a way that greg never would a British remake of the remake of the British Office exactly

he could be in the run in Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy

and made with fresh Canadian dairy it's also refreshingly cheap just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.

Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this?

I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com Go on, what are your tendencies let them out my tendency when i'm feeling shitty and impostery is i think i can get very out of tune with myself i can get very out of tune with how i'm feeling and like stopping remembering to like take a moment to be like wait how am i feeling i could get through like my entire morning of like activities of like showering walking my dog getting dressed doing my hair or eating breakfast the whole thing without being like god you're on the brink of tears like you're about to fucking cry i mean i have forced you into tears a few times well we've recorded we've i don't know

if we've actually recorded but we've sat down to record a couple days in a row like last week um where wing has literally been like are you okay and i've just immediately burst into tears i remember you saying like your tears shouldn't be that close they shouldn't be that ready like i said to you like i think you need to cry like i think you're not okay and you started crying and i was like look i feel bad but also it was the right thing to do like yeah if your tears are that ready if someone of someone saying like look are you okay like you're not good right now yeah and you start crying it's like okay yeah red flag like you actually aren't feeling good yeah no i think i've been feeling quite bad but like you need the permission to let that be but also it's in quite a low-key way it's not like anything has literally nothing

has happened and nothing is actually upsetting me i think it's just it's just a real lesson in perception that one day you can perceive yourself as completely failing and worthless and a piece of shit um that needs to change all of this shit and then the next day you can view yourself as on top of it all a cool person that's doing cool things and blah blah blah it's just a lesson in perception for me but also i hate that it's one of my worst things when i feel really out of tune with like i can really force myself through activities and i think it's the manic aspect of my personality that i don't just ever be like right okay just shut the fuck up and just sit there and all the stuff i'll be like i'm gonna meditate my way out of it i'm like i'm just gonna do a dance i'm gonna do a dance and then i'll be feel happy i'm gonna make my tea i'm gonna watch

an episode of my favorite show like i never just like start scrapping around yeah and it's never um i don't know i think i can just get really really out of tune with myself and i think that is really painful when then you get to the end of the day or when for example something small happens you drop your mug of tea and you burst into tears happens to us all that just the smallest straw is the thing that uh-huh breaks the camel's back is that but like i or like for example your friend says do you do you need to cry and you just immediately burst into tears by the way i didn't say it in like an attack of like are you gonna fucking cry right now you fucking loser i said no one would think you said it look i don't think we should record like i i hate to say it but i don't think

you're feeling good also i was gonna say you being like you know nothing's even happened like everything's fine i I do agree. It is a lesson in perception. It is an example of that. But it also, I think you do have that natural kind of instinct to undermine. You are facing certain challenges right now. You are. There are certain things that, you know, it does make sense for someone who's going through certain things. I'm not trying to say, yeah, it's life ruining and and like oh my god sephie's not got hope in hell like i'm not um i'm not pitying you

in any way if anyone knows sephie has a bit of an issue with pity and i'm not pitying you and it's not about like putting sympathy where there shouldn't be but more so the acknowledgement of like no when you're facing challenges it's okay to sometimes find them a bit challenging yeah no and not have to like fight through it or like pretend it's not there sometimes find them a bit challenging yeah no definitely not have to like fight through it or like pretend it's not there really no i agree i think also that's been one of the things that there's a resistance to acknowledging that some of the things i'm dealing with aren't um just like yeah of my own creation it's not like um oh it's like i don't know it's not things that i have any control over that i basically have some situations in my life that are very abnormal and extreme and really painful and unfair.

All of the words. Really hard. And not fixable. And the whole thing. Yeah. Just all the shit that like a lot of stuff, a lot of us go through shit. But there's, I don't know, I think I'm in an extreme situation, which isn't normal in all of the stuff. But I also, I don't know, I think I have a resistance to say that because I hate feeling powerless and like out of control with things.

It's so much easier just to be like, that's not an issue. The only issue I've got to work on is my own um like body dysmorphia that's a manageable thing that's in my head then it's over for you bitches sort of thing yeah also kind of the thing of like someone who you're kind of you're being cherry seaborne i was thinking god cherry this is why i cherry this one's sort of see myself in you so much yeah because in the same kind of five minutes that you've said you know i'm not going through anything particularly hard right you know there's no particular issues nothing's going wrong i'm just you know i'm just not feeling good whatever like it's not a big deal and then literally two minutes

later you're like i'm going through something extreme and abnormal and really difficult kind of why those are two sides of the same coin for me almost like they both are true at once is because it's i'm not dealing with anything new i'm dealing with something that i've been dealing with um mine to hire life like it's an ex like i'm being so vague and it's so annoying for a listener but it's stuff that doesn't direct like it involves other people not just me so that's why i'm not saying what it is of course but yeah no it's not something that feels like i think i've only just realized that it's abnormal like because you've spent your life undermining it i think yeah no i've only just realized that um you're actually facing quite an extreme situation

yeah but it's never felt extreme it's just felt like a fact of my life so i think then when things i don't know so i've just been feeling really shit and then inevitably stuff that you play out stuff that is happening to you then plays out in like other ways it's kind of no wonder that i've been projecting kind of stuff onto the podcast oh i feel shit in it blah blah blah even though i don't really feel shit in it right now today i feel good in it but i don't know imposter syndrome is so shit like it is yeah it's shit i also is like, you know, we're on good form here, I think. Might not sound like it. This is us on a good day.

But actually this is us, you know, good, I think. And I think something that's been important even for our relationship between me and you, even outside of the podcast from both of us, I think, but something we're going through at the moment is I want to feel like you are giving yourself the space to admit when you're not feeling good which is kind of why i said earlier as well about when i'm feeling good you know it's nice to hear that you're happy for me but i was saying to you the other day like that can't help

but project or like shine a light on you when you're not feeling good and and i feel that definitely i've always wanted people around me to be happy but when you're not necessarily feeling amazing and it feels like other people are it's not that you don't want them to be happy it's just that you want to be happy with them and I do think that's like a difficult kind of feeling to deal with because it feels even more sour and really impostery and really like you know frustrating because you get really fucking annoyed with yourself and then I think you're the furthest thing from like allowing yourself to feel down and like being kind and like getting through it and all of these things instead of that you're like really angry with yourself and you're like fuck you you stupid fucking cunt like why are you so annoying blah

blah blah and i think what's good about our relationship is that we both take the time to make sure that the other person has the space to be like actually no you're right I'm not feeling good today or like no you're right like this is what I need like and be completely open yeah definitely it's yeah I don't I don't I definitely didn't feel like that like when you said that kind of because you're feeling good at the moment would that have made me feel worse i definitely didn't feel any like even a speck of that like that is the absolute i really didn't feel like that it's the absolute opposite of how i feel to be honest no definitely but i think you don't want to bring me down sometimes like and you'll say that oh i'm draining you and like you know you do you do you do have a reluctance you don't drain me but you

do have a reluctance to like and then especially when i'm feeling good i think you will be like you know you don't want to kill the vibe especially when we've got so much you know fun things happening and blah blah blah no i never ever want to bring you down like i never want to bring you into it but oh i don't know i think it's just really deep i think it's just as well like with imposter syndrome kind of what we're speaking about at the beginning of like you don't feel like an imposter you just feel like a piece of shit because you don't feel like you're going through imposter syndrome you just feel like everything good that you have is doomed and everything bad that you have is your reality and what you deserve and i just think you you know you don't, you can be really hard on yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah, no, it is. I don't really know. What's wrong? I don't know.

You have such a distinct face when you feel bad. I know. I hate it. It's okay. It's okay. Am I going to cry? Yeah, you're already crying and that's okay. That's fine. I don't even know what about though like no but you're you know what your mind has not stopped like my mind yeah and i think the fact that like

you know we've had this conversation of you being like why am i crying like what's wrong like you know what's going on sort of thing you're you're just being so hard on yourself i think that mostly because you're frustrated and you don't want to feel shit you want to feel good but that frustration is stopping you from moving through the shittiness the devil snare you're you're not devil snaring you're like resisting it even when you don't feel like you are resisting it do you know what it kind of is i think i have a real um kind of hannah montana best of both worlds situation but one is the best of both one is the best world and one is a nightmare at the moment like I definitely am caught between two realities of like on one hand I very much feel happy with where I am and like like I in some

ways live quite a glamorous life sure like definitely it is so fucking cool and that kind of feels like when i've got my hannah montana wig on like i'm here like i'm hannah montana like perfect i'm going to the fucking show whatever i'm kind of going on these holidays we're going to the fucking gleam office all of this stuff yeah you're having a great time it's a hannah montana vibes and then i definitely have on the other hand i'm definitely dealing with quite like traumatic, huge things that like impact a lot of other people and stuff that I definitely feel being caught between these two things is extremely jarring. Like, definitely. It's extremely jarring.

So I think like, I then feel impostery because there is a certain amount that i'm kind of holding not even holding back but like that i'm protecting and i i definitely am struggling to like breach the gap between the two things of like allowing that version that is like her and going through stuff to be part of the hannah montanering vibe like i almost have found it easier just to draw like a line in between the two but then that also creates like a disjunction between like not being able to be proud of any of this cool stuff that we're doing or like even celebrate it because it feels so almost absurd compared to my quote unquote actual life I think I think you've said it though that using Hannah Montana as an example

and the bridge between these two kind of versions of your life it's not just your life it's who you are and it's a version that you see as let's say glamorous but also like valid and having fun and things going well and successful and then another side of you that you see as obviously going through so much hurt and like you know a really challenging situation but that protection of that also then makes it feel less valid and you are you do naturally slip into trying to cover up the versions of you that are hurt and finding things difficult and some of that is a normal level of like having boundaries and like being normal like do you know i mean protecting yourself and all of these things and allowing yourself to like go out and let your hair down and like have a good time etc enjoy your life but i think something that's been

a struggle for both of us in life is feeling like there's a version of yourself that isn't good enough yeah to i mean really to exist not even just to share with people but like there's a version of you that you're fighting and resisting and trying to change and trying to ignore and you know you're not miley stewart living a hannah montana life you're not you're sephie and the things that well or poppy or persephone or any of these weird names like you are one person who is multifaceted the good and the bad the good is great and i love sharing some of the good bits with you like i love that some of our good is combined and we get to enjoy it together and i know we do enjoy it but also the parts that you

see are that the parts that you see as bad are just as valid and if anything they inform the fun seffy like fun seffy wouldn't get any of her jokes if she hadn't have been her and if she hadn't have been made who she is like i do feel like to split yourself almost crux yourself up you've given yourself little horcruxes of parts of you that are valid and parts of you that need to be hidden yeah and it's not to say you need to go out spilling the bean everywhere but more so allowing yourself to like respond to all parts of your life yeah and feel valid in that and it's difficult because i like i feel like at some points i do like also yeah everything i say on for example on this podcast is informed by my life experience which this stuff is a huge part of that

um which is so vague and like and just ridiculous i'm so sorry um so every bit of me is informed by this so it is just like there isn't these two parts of me but i do feel like i'm really struggling that when there does feel like such a disparity between like the good and the bad at the moment it does feel really difficult to kind of value the good when yeah so I think that's a huge part of it that I don't really feel at the moment that I'm like celebrating the wins quote-unquote like I don't feel like I'm feeling any of the good stuff that's happening to us because like and to you and to me separately yeah um because it feels like a disservice to the bad i don't really know yeah but then also living kind of as well like earlier trying to kind of force your way in the good and undermine the bad by being like you know there's nothing going on

i think as well like a big thing for me is for us both to understand that like especially on this podcast and the conversations that we have here i think we need to come here as much as possible as ourselves because we deserve to and that's what we've built and also you know how can you celebrate the win of people connecting with your podcast if you're also telling yourself with the mental crusher discounting that oh they only like me because i've done a certain you know show or like they you know i mean i've put on a certain thing and i think some of it is so deep and unconscious it's so ingrained in who we are kind of our rule for living is this scary part of my life that's really confronting this really confronting part of who i am needs to be held

under the surface which is like i just almost think as well when with you saying about perception i do think so much of it is the idea that just getting your head around the idea that you could deserve good things in life like you could be in a room and deserve to be there yeah i think that's definitely one of the bits that oh i don't even i don't know what i'm gonna say should we switch to like a slightly different energy yeah maybe um can you tell me one of the coolest places or like the coolest things that you've done like the most exciting thing where you've kind of been like living in the kind of deliriousness of it for a little bit and like you know enjoying the pasta or like haha enjoying the drink or like looking around and being like this is a great place for me to be right now I think mine was pretty recent I think

it was in Seattle stunning tell us more in Seattle I went in February it is now what is it May um I went five weeks you may have heard this before that I went and it was such a bubble and I just felt so detached from everyone I knew because we were literally on different time zones everything i do in my life kind of my identity everything and it was a real example of like it was actually quite scary to be like you could literally start from scratch like yes at any moment you could literally create a new life wherever you go like that is pretty crazy like obviously you'd miss all the people that you know and all of that but it was a real lesson in like god you're like you can be pretty independent in this like you could really could go in this

life like you could really go anywhere yeah and i just had such a good time like it was such a bubble and it was so a lot of things that happened were quite unexpected and it was just really fun and i think there was a lot of time there where i was just like god this is quite iconic actually like you're living in this weird kind of was almost quite like a shack that i was living in with this dog that you you were scared of this dog before like it was a pit bull it was fucking scary dog like this is not a life that you have ever lived before it's not um me and my little um cockapoo it's me on my own in a country that they have fucking guns it's pretty scary and you stand out like a sore thumb because every time you speak to you you go oh hello and you sound like princess

diana yeah um and you've got a pitbull in the house you're kind of scared in the house scared out of the house and i was meeting a lot of new people if i met you there hey um and it was really cool it was really different and really cool and i think i was so aware every minute of the day like how iconic it was almost i was like this is so cool i was almost like no one does this like of course people go away on holidays and people go traveling and things like that but it was like the specifics to be in one place as well to be in a city that i didn't really know anything about in at like a random time of year almost like it wasn't like kind of tourist season yeah yeah it was like this is quite random this almost wasn't

what you were supposed to do in your life and I'm so happy you've done it do you think the lack of kind of um I guess kind of going into the unknown but with the lack of expectation allowed you to actually see it from the perspective that you were doing something quite in alignment with what you want to do and it felt right and so you could feel like happy with yourself and like let yourself enjoy it I think so I really didn't have any expectations like my only expectation was to like come out of it alive honestly like I was so scared like on the plane there I was like I don't know what America's like like I don't know what like when I look at the news and I hear stuff about America it doesn't ever sound fucking good like it sounds fucking scary I actually was speaking to someone that

I met there recently the other day and they were saying about like there were some shootings there last week and things like that to the English ears sound fucking terrifying like shootings I mean they sound scary to everyone's ears but I don't know I was scared to go to America and I think my expectation of it was so low or like my expectations were like let's just see what this is. And the amount of fun I had there and like almost like the attachment that I feel to that place now, which was a place I had no knowledge of at all. Seattle. I had no knowledge of this place. And now I feel a real attachment to that city.

And like I have such good memories of thinking about it. And like, I don't know, I met cool people and it was nice and all of the staff. I just, yeah, I think my low expectations really helped me like in, or my literally not even low expectations, literally lack of expectations really helped me just to be like, whatever happens, happens.

And that's always when I think the best things happen. You know what it kind of reminds me of as well is like the idea that, you know, when you go on holiday and you like start wearing crazy things and like yeah feel a kind of sense of liberation because you're detached from your reality that you've been living in exactly so you kind of get to try out something new and i feel like you definitely had that in seattle like staying in the same place for five weeks. So you're kind of getting to like make your mark a little bit.

Dog sitting in someone's house and really settling in. You've got a routine. Exactly. In your life, but in a different city. Almost, you know, going into it with no one there knowing you, you can kind of drop the mask a little bit and yeah play into i guess the roles that we want or like sometimes i guess the roles that are more like true to ourselves that we kind of don't ever really show maybe you're more yourself there do you think in a way i don't know i was because also you're so oh sorry i was gonna just say you're like so out of

your normal routines that i think we get attached to like the people that we see the things that we do and we see that as who we are which i think it is a big part of who we are but also being able to go to seattle and like form a whole new life make new relationships make new routines like live a slightly different or completely different lifestyle you seem like your life feels so so different but it can also feel quite liberating yeah i think i didn't feel i don't know what was the question sorry like almost were you being yourself like were you able to be a new version of yourself like were you able to kind of like feel a bit more yourself because you didn't feel necessarily judged by the people around you no i think i felt i think i felt like

the normal version of myself like i felt like i didn't feel like oh i feel any truer myself or any less true myself i think i was just same old me but i do feel like i was quite in touch with myself i was journaling quite a lot and actually read back some of my journals crazy which is crazy crazy crazy crazy like oh guys i wish i could let you in on more of what happened there but i kind of can't yet maybe i will i don't know but i think that's a huge i think it's a huge achievement to go to a different country and still feel like you're being yourself because i'm definitely the kind of person where i end up kind of assimilating and mirroring the people that I'm surrounded by so like I feel like this is the seffy and the seffy point to show because I mirror but I mirror who I'm with a lot and I

think whenever I kind of meet new people go different places etc etc I really easily like kind of I watch a film and all of a sudden I feel like I'm kind of like yeah like I really fall into um I slip away from myself I think quite easily I think that's easy to do I think that's why journaling was really helping me there because it really grounds you in like um where you are you're kind of who are you talking to you're kind of in direct communication with your like soul or something when you're really writing from the heart so i think it really grounds you with like your inner self a lot but yeah no i do get that i i i i didn't feel that at all that i was um a new version or anything I still very much just felt like me but like I was very excited and like um curious when I was there which isn't something that I feel like you're naturally in your life walking around going to like a new coffee shop

I'm not necessarily like so curious but I was like oh my god like this like I feel like I was really exploring and um yeah I just felt really free I don't even know what the word is I felt very I thought it felt like it was very cool of me to do that and I felt very confident in the decision of like this was the right move stunning as you should felt like that all the time at the moment yeah like what what was felt like what what bit like have you ever felt that you have made a move in your life that was like that was the right decision and it feels like it's closer to who like closely aligned to like who you are I mean actually so many really um and I can't even begin

to go into them but I like to think that especially actually maybe we're doing the podcast and kind of checking in each week makes us both i think more aware of something actually i've been saying to sephie recently is like with every decision we make let's make sure every teeny decision we make we're making incremental moves so subtly in the right direction because what we don't want to do because it's true it really catches it out kind of me being like look we're not recording today because you're not in the right place like yeah it's important for me to be able to look back in a few years and see the pattern wasn't us slowly but surely making all the wrong choices and doing all the wrong

things and slowly steering us in the wrong direction in the moment i think it can be hard you know not to just do things without thinking and then before you know it you're two years down the line and it's like fuck how did i get here and it's because you made all those be somewhere really bad exactly um but i definitely i think i'm quite an intentional person and you are so intent no you really are i think it's one of the main things about you honestly yeah i do think i'm very intentional i think i like engage with people very intentionally and i i also i do think i engage with the world very intentionally like again something i'm liking

about myself recently is like sharing my perspective on things and i feel like i'm trying to make a bit more of an effort of not being so can I ask you a question and trying to be a bit more comfortable with even though literally all I do is fucking interrupt and talk my nut off and just talk shit on this podcast I do want to feel like I don't know if anyone would be able to tell but for me personally just keep working through the ways that I feel like I have to perform a certain thing for the podcast rather than feeling confident to share my things even if I think like oh no one's no one cares about that sort of thing yeah or like making a joke without feeling like oh my god everyone's gonna get upset

with me sort of thing it's so funny that just isn't how i don't know from my perspective not how you come across at all like i would never have wanted to do a podcast with someone that i felt was saying can i ask you a question can i ask you a question the whole time like i feel like it's very much an equal it's an equal conversation there is no i don't know from my point of view here i think it's totally equal like there's no um yeah i don't know i'd hate to think that you're holding yourself back from saying things no i've never felt that from you i speak my nut off like i take up the space i just don't necessarily know if i say the things do you feel comfortable with it that i would yeah exactly i don't know if i'm

necessary feeling the room to flourish yeah yeah with my inner thoughts not that i'm not sharing thoughts because i'm sharing a load of shit in abundance but more so i don't know i'm feeling quite like i was saying to my friend the other day i feel like i'm realizing like oh i have like my thoughts have value and like i have ideas and i'm a really like thoughtful creative like intelligent person and I should share them even if no one else likes it I just deserve to share it in life um and even that silly little bagel thing I did the other day that I posted I posted this pic of a bagel big deal um it wasn't a bagel though it was an illustration yeah it was just a cute little

sketchy moment um and i do lots of things and i've always felt very like you know i can't share things because i don't know like i'm not prepared for the judgment or like yeah you know it just means a lot i think like even with like concepts for episodes and the fact that we've done the podcast and just with anything I just I really feel like I do actually I really live with my heart like I actually invest my heart into the things that I do yeah which in a lot of ways has held me back because it's meant that I've had this really high expectation or like standard of what my output needs to be and so I'll avoid doing it because I feel like I'm not going to live up to the standard that I want so end up being held back

by my own perfectionism but then also it means that like I feel a real connection with the things that I do and I go through life really feeling like I'm really making an effort and so you know maybe you'll see more bagels I don't know but just I think in the podcast and in life I feel like it's just important I think as a young woman kind of what we were saying before about like it's politically important for you as a woman to enjoy yourself and enjoy your life and take up space but I just I really want to own the space and feel very confident to share things yeah just for myself because I think I do inherently have value and I see that for us and I see that for everyone listening that you don't need to wait to be given permission to do something I think you

just inherently should be able to share it and you're not an imposter you're a deserving intelligent person 100% I think that's where we should leave it because that is just perfect i mean that is the crux me too yeah crux of life hey amazing what a bizarre roller coaster we've taken everybody on yeah i'm already feeling like what the fuck was that but you need some space you need to you need to just get away no yeah send you back to seattle ship you off to your master's house delivery just put you in a box and send you off yeah that was strange but fun and just whatever i think i don't even think it was strange i think it was perfect cool okay well i'm going with that it's perfect yeah it's perfect you're perfect cool

you're perfect right if you You're perfect. Thanks. Right. If you don't hear from us, assume the worst.